S20.E07: Caretaker

[dttruman]

Description for this episode, comes from IMDb, "The cops wrestle with an unthinkable crime when a family is murdered in their sleep."

[dttruman]

How many times has Benson said this over the 20 seasons at the end of this clip

[Spartan Girl]

While I haven't been watching this show at all this season, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out the nanny killed the husband and kids because the husband assaulted her and St Olivia once again takes the side of a rape victim regardless of the dead kids.

[Xeliou66]

The episode title and the preview certainly points to the nanny’s involvement, I’m not sure how it will go down. If the killer has ever been victimized though, St Olivia will certainly side with them, she thinks being victimized in the past gives you a free pass to commit criminal acts.

[mamadrama]

I wonder if this will be anything like the case where the NYC nanny killed the two kids and then tried to slit her own throat? 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/18/nyregion/nanny-trial-verdict.html

[dttruman]

15 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

While I haven't been watching this show at all this season, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out the nanny killed the husband and kids because the husband assaulted her and St Olivia once again takes the side of a rape victim regardless of the dead kids.

 

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

The episode title and the preview certainly points to the nanny’s involvement, I’m not sure how it will go down. If the killer has ever been victimized though, St Olivia will certainly side with them, she thinks being victimized in the past gives you a free pass to commit criminal acts.

I believe this is going to be another Benson episode. I Googled "law & order: special victims unit season 20 episode 7", and found this description on the far right location

"SVU investigates when a father and his two young children are stabbed to death in their home; when the motives of the culprit are uncovered, Benson finds herself having mixed feelings about the nature of the crime."

According to this, it's not about how it affects the whole squad, but Benson is specifically mentioned here. I just wonder how they are going to justify killing two kids. Victimization like XELIOU66 suggested or might it be the usual "high on drugs" or even the "opioids" desperation

Edited November 1, 2018 by dttruman

[Xeliou66]

I don’t know how the episode will play out, but if St Olivia sides with someone who murdered children, that will be a new low for her and that’s saying something. She thinks that being victimized in the past gives someone a free pass to break the law, but she’s never defended child killers before. 

[dttruman]

Considering the preview they showed for the "Exile" episode, I am wondering if this episode will have anything to do Fin and Carisi? Last week I thought it was going to be a Carisi episode.

Edited November 1, 2018 by dttruman

[MrsRafaelBarba]

This is too neat, don't think it's the Nanny.

[dttruman]

8 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

This is too neat, don't think it's the Nanny.

Yeah, I wonder if the husband killed the kids and the nanny killed the husband? All I know is that Benson is not being objective at all in the beginning.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

1 minute ago, dttruman said:

Yeah, I wonder if the husband killed the kids and the nanny killed the husband? All I know is that Benson is not being objective at all in the beginning.

As I expected, plus we got her and Rollins front and center.

Hi Scott Bryce!!!

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Yes Olivia, there have been Mothers who killed their babies.

[dttruman]

I wonder if they are going to use the old stand by and blame it on a drug cartel?

9 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Yes Olivia, there have been Mothers who killed their babies.

Now if they follow their standard format, Benson will be testifying for this lady at the trial.

I think I have it figured out, Benson will blame the drug companies.

Edited November 2, 2018 by dttruman

[MrsRafaelBarba]

What can I do, don't you mean We? 

 

You're not a one woman SVU squad Benson.

[dttruman]

Oh my god! Why is she testifying like a shrink and then saying that the defendant deserves to go to prison, she is not legally insane. Where the hell is Abernathy!

Edited November 2, 2018 by dttruman

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Well Damn Stone, he went for the jugular.

[dttruman]

12 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Well Damn Stone, he went for the jugular.

I thought he presented a pretty good case, even though Abernathy didn't tesitify.  Was she found guilty on only one charge of murder? I didn't quite understand that. Was this one of those skewed verdicts that goes along with (in this case) the agenda of women can commit crimes because they feel overwhelmed.

I thought the investigation was decent enough, but the trial seemed a little superficial.

Edited November 2, 2018 by dttruman

[MissL]

I haven't watched this show in years but happened to run across it tonight. What the hell was that? Did I just watch two men mansplain to a courtroom what it's like to be a woman in today's society? Really?

And Olivia is surprised a mom killed her kids? Hasn't she been in SVU like forever? This can't be the first she's seen that.

[wknt3]

The Good:
Another solid case - it kept me interested and flowed well.
Basically every moment Fin and Carisi were together on screen. I think they both had good material individually, especially Fin who's deadpan snark was a bit sharper than it had been all season (floved his response when the brother tried to pull the blame the brown people card) but I loved them together if only because when they were front and center we were moving along an interesting case and the personal trauma was subtext instead of anvils. I hope we get more of them while Rollins is on desk duty and it's not just one of them with Benson most of the time.
Stone acting like a capable lawyer directing the prosecution with minimal Benstone action. I wish we got a little more of the trial and less "oh no how can a mother do this? We have kids!"

The Bad:
I'm guessing from the intro that the defense lawyer was from Chicago Justice? He should have stayed there. There are plenty of other defense lawyer characters who could have pulled off the defense just as well without constantly threatening to drop into an old SNL Da Bears sketch ("you're supposed to protect your family, but sometimes you just can't just like offensive lines couldn't protect thier QB's against the 85 Bears defense..."
Basically every moment Rollins and Benson were together on screen. We get it. They're mothers. But they're not rookies, especially Liv, and while it's fine for then to be personally affected it's ridiculous to see them competing to see who could be closer to the edge of complete mental breakdown and who could overact more. Also the way the scenes with Rollins were blocked really reminded me how easy it would have been to ignore Giddish's pregnancy.
They wasted another opportunity to really showcase and establish Abernathy so that Benson could play shrink.

Overall this episode was like a traffic light. Fin and Carisi - green light. Keep going and give us more like this. Courtroom- yellow light. Slow down and look around before plowing through. Benson and Rollins - red light. Stop! It balances out to an average to slightly above average episode, but it could have been really good to excellent with just a few tweaks.

[WineCheeseChocolat]

3 minutes ago, MissL said:

And Olivia is surprised a mom killed her kids? Hasn't she been in SVU like forever? This can't be the first she's seen that.

She’s investigated moms killing their kids, moms pimping out their kids, moms sexually abusing their kids, moms neglecting their kids, moms not feeding their kids in some sort of power play, moms letting their husbands turkey-baster impregnate their kids...the list goes on and on. Rollins hasn’t been there nearly as long but she’s seen shit too. WTF was with them not being able to deal and having to cry and hug it out in Benson’s office?

And there has been a family annihilator episode years ago that had Stabler Taking It Personally because it turned out to be the husband that did it. But before they realized it was the husband, everyone thought the wife had killed the kids, tried to kill the husband and then turned the gun on herself.

[SuzieQ]

Why was this even an SVU case?  They shouldn't have even been involved.

[Iguessnot]

I don't know what the hell I just watched. Why does she "ask" the ME to let them know if he finds out anything? That's part of the job, not a favor.

Why were both Benson and Rollins so timid when asking Anna and the other woman about Dolores the nanny? The woman was a likely suspect, yet they acted as though it was offensive to ask questions about her. 

 A broad who picks up and carries the murder weapon home and can't bother to call police should be locked up for being so stupid. Whole thing was bogus.

Rollins and Benson need to be banished. I was embarrassed by their portrayals.

So somebody thought this "case" and the defense was compelling? Someone thought this was a difficult case for Stone?

If this is the best Mariska can offer, she needs to quit acting and producing and go home to do crafts.  

[ChristiKRN]

Dttruman, I liked the investigation part of the episode, too.  Fin and Carisi are a dynamic duo; they maintain a level head and get the job done.   They really need to be featured more prominently; they just drop off lately in the episodes.  Bonus: Stone seemed more rational  this week. 

The plot was not shocking; the mother, who was an attorney, killed them, was on board with allowing the nanny to take the fall,  and then used a psychiatric defense when she was caught.  The only thing that was shocking was Benson being shocked that a mother could kill her children.  

Once again, they didn't use the psychiatrist to her fullest potential.  The defense could have used her to testify.  Once again, they had Benson giving her judgment on the stand that she is not legally insane. Why would Stone even want her to testify to that? Kudos to the defense attorney for calling out Benson on her lack of degrees. 

The worst parts were generally anything involving Benson and Rollins together.  It would have been OK for them to have a very brief scene to discuss their dismay as mothers  for another mother to have killed her kids, but it went overboard as it usually does with them.  This is nitpicky, but Rollins' facial expressions were distracting, especially in the 1st interview with the mother. I don't know if she was trying to convey disbelief, empathy, trying to stay awake, smelling something bad...  Not impressed with the acting.

I'm not sure of the message they were trying to convey tonight.  Women are too weak to handle pressure? Women who attempt to achieve everything can break, so they shouldn't even try? 

[Dessert]

Infuriatingly bad on every level. I didn’t even watch much of because I just couldn’t. 

[Xeliou66]

That was a very strong episode, definitely the best of the season.

The case felt like classic, strong SVU, good investigation+good courtroom scenes=good episode. It was really nice to see them go back into the courtroom after not having much of that this season.

Fin and Carisi are awesome, I love all of their scenes together, they were great once again tonight and were the highlight of the episode, as usual. The only good thing about Rollins’ pregnancy is that we get less of Rollins and more of Fin and Carisi working together and doing the field work.

The courtroom scenes were good, I liked seeing O’Boyle again, he was good on Chicago Justice and he was good again here, I liked when he took Benson down a few pegs on cross.

Abernathy was good and it’s great to have a psych expert on the show again, I wish we had seen her testimony though, we got a reference to it and we saw her conclusions but it would’ve been nice if they had deleted the Benson/Rollins crap and showed her testimony instead.

It was awesome to see an ME again!!!! I’ve complained before about how we never see minor characters like that anymore, so it was great to have an ME on again, I remember he was in Chasing Demons last season, it feels so much more natural when we have supporting characters.

The only thing that took the episode down a few notches were the Benson/Rollins scenes. Benson’s overdramatize facial expressions and whispering was out in full force tonight, and I hated how Benson was acting like she had never seen anything like this, she’s been an SVU cop for 2 decades, and her saying that mothers don’t kill their children was absurd, I guess she’s never heard of Andrea Yates or Susan Smith. I don’t give a fuck about Benson and Rollins being super mommies and going on about their kids, and I don’t care about the Al storyline either, the Benson/Rollins crap prevented the episode from being great.

No political preaching was nice. 

Overall though this was the best episode of season 20 and one of the better SVU episodes of the last couple of seasons, most of it felt like classic SVU, if it wasn’t for the Benson/Rollins stuff, I would say this was a great episode.

[Mystery Author]

Quote

Why was this even an SVU case?  They shouldn't have even been involved.

That was my question. To which Mr. Author replied, "Damned if I know."

Maybe I'm wrong, I've been wrong before, but I'd think they'd put Ms. I'm Not Perfect on suicide watch (tsk-tsk).

[MrsRafaelBarba]

6 minutes ago, Mystery Author said:

That was my question. To which Mr. Author replied, "Damned if I know."

Maybe I'm wrong, I've been wrong before, but I'd think they'd put Ms. I'm Not Perfect on suicide watch (tsk-tsk).

At least there wasn't a monkey in a basketball.

[Fellaway]

This started out a promising ep, kind of old school but...  ::shrug::  It went from promising to meh by the time they got to court.  I was really zoning out at that point.  So the gist is the mother was essentially embezzling money from her law firm, unbeknownst to her husband, which triggered an audit which would reveal her theft so... she killed her family because they wouldn't be able to do without her if she went to prison?  'Mkay.

Things I liked:  Carisi and Fin, as is becoming a common refrain here in the forum.  Loved Fin's "Look who you're talking to, dude."  Classic Fin.  I loved they confirmed Carisi speaks Spanish.  (I've been arguing that with a friend for a few seasons now based on a couple brief scenes in earlier eps.)  I liked that Carisi went to talk to the mother first, but then...

Things I didn't like:  ...Once they're back at the precinct, Benson and Rollins take over because, I guess, Carisi is incapable of talking to victims/victims' families.  Benson and Rollins seem to always do it lately, but they are so not a dream team.  And I absolutely hate their "we're single, working mothers bonding over all the tragedy" thing they've got going on this season.  Enough.  We've seen it.  Move on, Show.  And what's up with Benson's "a nanny couldn't just wake up one day and kill a family" and "mothers don't kill their babies" thing?  She's never heard of family annihilators? It's like she hasn't been a detective with SVU for 20 years.

Enough, too, with the CJ crossovers.  This was, what, the third, counting Stone?  Geez, showrunners, I didn't watch CJ when it was on, why would I want to watch it now on SVU?  I'm sure it had its viewers, but the show did fail in less than a season, and it failed for reasons.  I'd bet money the majority of SVU's viewers don't miss it nor even watched it, and these characters aren't likely to help SVU's ratings.  I've noticed the lack of our regular roster of defense attorneys this season, too.  I'd rather see them.

Why didn't the defense attorney call a psychologist to the stand?  The jury thought she was insane when she killed her kids, but... not insane when she killed her husband?  'Mkay.  Why did Olivia go to see the nanny after she'd been released, instead of one of the detectives?  (We'll probably never get another detective on the squad because, then, they wouldn't have the "we're shorthanded" excuse to send Benson into the field.)  Doesn't she ever have administrative things to do?  It was refreshing to not see her in the gallery after she testified, but I guess that was only because there was no victim there for her to be the rock for.

Oh!  And Amanda is dumb as a post if she's back with "Al."  I'd tell him what he could do with his flowers.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Fellaway

[wknt3]

7 hours ago, SuzieQ said:

Why was this even an SVU case?  They shouldn't have even been involved.

In the SVUverse the squad sometimes investigates homicides that have an sexual element or involve children etc. In the old days there would have been a line or two of dialogue about how they were assigned the case because it resembled a serial offender or they wanted experienced trained detectives to interview the little boy or whatever, but after 2 years of the same "pretty rich white people he said, she said" plot they've apparently forgotten how to do that exposition. Or it was cut for time so we could have the overacting competition between Giddish and Hargitay.
 

29 minutes ago, Fellaway said:

Oh!  And Amanda is dumb as a post if she's back with "Al."  I'd tell him what he could do with his flowers.

When it comes to her love life Amanda is much dumber than your average post.

 

6 hours ago, Mystery Author said:

Maybe I'm wrong, I've been wrong before, but I'd think they'd put Ms. I'm Not Perfect on suicide watch (tsk-tsk).

They were so happy they got her to back to the jail without the nanny shooting her or taking hostages they let their guard down?

[dttruman]

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

The only thing that took the episode down a few notches were the Benson/Rollins scenes. Benson’s overdramatize facial expressions and whispering was out in full force tonight, and I hated how Benson was acting like she had never seen anything like this, she’s been an SVU cop for 2 decades, and her saying that mothers don’t kill their children was absurd,

I think deep down, this episode was not written to explore the reasoning why a mother would kill her husband and children. I think it was written to see how it affects Rollins and especially Benson. There was really no depth to the investigation or the trial. Many have pointed out that Benson's testimony toward the defendant's mental state shouldn't have been admissible or it should have come from Abernathy. But Hey! Benson has to have her face time, along with her emotional conflict moments (so it shows her range to support her future Emmy nomination).

Edited November 2, 2018 by dttruman

[dttruman]

8 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

So somebody thought this "case" and the defense was compelling? Someone thought this was a difficult case for Stone?

I believe they thought that and so did I for what they showed of it. Given the time allotted, I thought it was credible. After all, they needed that extra time so Benson and Rollins could share their very important emotional moments together

[MissL]

9 hours ago, ChristiKRN said:

 

I'm not sure of the message they were trying to convey tonight.  Women are too weak to handle pressure? Women who attempt to achieve everything can break, so they shouldn't even try? 

Yes! Thank you! I wasn't sure how to express this last night but when I was watching I kept thinking "what message am I supposed to be getting out of this?"

[illdoc]

You know, it must be nice to be African-American in SVU's world---you are never a "special victim"! And,

Spoiler

based on the previews, the trend continues next week

[cfinboston]

I can't with this show anymore.

Liv was supposed to be a hardened SVU detective. Now she literally can't look at a crime scene without mentioning Noah. "I was going to buy that bed for Noah" is hands down the shittiest quip offered by a detective when finding a body. The entire episode you'd have thought she was Dani Beck discovering she can not emotionally cope with SVU.  

Whatever writer came up with "Keep the flowers, sometimes you just need a little pretty" needs to be fired yesterday. 

She and Stabler investigated a family annihilation case. Why the hell is she screeching about how it must be some made up psychobabble?

Anna is inexplicably smart enough to be a lawyer and make millions of dollars yet she leaves blood spattered tennis shoes in her desk drawer? 

[howiveaddict]

Episode would have worked better if they had investigated more the Mother's fake corporation. Maybe husband had found out about it and was going to leave her and take the kids.   I buy that reason for the murders more than the one the show used.   It would also explain more why she let the nanny take the fall.  

[SarahPrtr]

I understand a parent empathising with other parents about children, but I absoutely cannot STAND it when they disregard anyone else's opinion just because they are not parents.  What does that mean?  That every single parent is a good person who loves children, but childless people are absolute dicks who are incapable of feeling sorrow and loss at the death/abuse of children???  I remember Olivia getting pissed off at Elliot for giving her the "You're not a parent, you wouldn't understand" line.  Oh, but NOW that she TOO is a mother, she's on The Same Level of other parents, so she could do her job better!  Not. 

 

Why couldn't they just have Rollins get pregnant by a boyfriend or SHOCK! a husband?  She could have had a guy she was dating and upon finding out that she was pregnant, decided to get married?  Or at the very least, not another effing douche.  What's wrong with you Amanda?  How could you be a detective and not have a radar for men you should never have sex with???

[llongori]

I'm rewatching this with the hubs. 

Sasha Alexander, the mom, out-acted everyone in every scene she had--fondling the shoe with the daughter's blood, telling the psychiatrist about the bug on the ledge over the grill...  She really made it look like everyone else was just phoning in their parts.

Overall, the trial part of this episode was lame.  The defense attorney was unpersuasive.  And even though I knew the mom was the killer, I wouldn't have convicted her based on Stone's closing argument.  It's a wonder they convicted her of the husband's murder.

[cfinboston]

Plus the defense attorney sounded like he was auditioning for a remake of Fargo.

[Iguessnot]

8 hours ago, dttruman said:

I believe they thought that and so did I for what they showed of it. Given the time allotted, I thought it was credible. After all, they needed that extra time so Benson and Rollins could share their very important emotional moments together

If that was a credible defense, there'd be no women in prison. The lawyer  would just have to say "life is hard" and all the juries would just melt. 

[Iguessnot]

47 minutes ago, llongori said:

I'm rewatching this with the hubs. 

Sasha Alexander, the mom, out-acted everyone in every scene she had--fondling the shoe with the daughter's blood, telling the psychiatrist about the bug on the ledge over the grill...  She really made it look like everyone else was just phoning in their parts.

Overall, the trial part of this episode was lame.  The defense attorney was unpersuasive.  And even though I knew the mom was the killer, I wouldn't have convicted her based on Stone's closing argument.  It's a wonder they convicted her of the husband's murder.

Why wouldn't you convict her? Just because she bought into the superwoman syndrome she gets to slaughter her family and walk free? Because she's a "mom" she can do no wrong?

[Spartan Girl]

Well, it's nice to hear I was wrong but I'm still glad I skipped this because I couldn't stand hearing Liv mewl about how mothers don't kill their children. WTF, Liv? Remember the judges wife that killed her daughter when she said that her husband raped her? That bitch Mary Steenburgen played that killed two of her babies? There's 20 years worth of examples of horrible mothers, have you forgotten all your other cases? STFU.

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, Iguessnot said:

If that was a credible defense, there'd be no women in prison. The lawyer  would just have to say "life is hard" and all the juries would just melt. 

 

1 hour ago, Iguessnot said:

Why wouldn't you convict her? Just because she bought into the superwoman syndrome she gets to slaughter her family and walk free? Because she's a "mom" she can do no wrong?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I was not giving it an award winning performance. On the contrary, I was giving it the greatest latitude, because the rest of the cast (not counting Hargitay) are only given so much to work with. I am basically taking what I can get from Carisi, Fin, and Stone, even if some scenes are superficial or convoluted (especially the verdict). So in a sense, I am agreeing with you.

Edited November 2, 2018 by dttruman

[dttruman]

4 hours ago, howiveaddict said:

Episode would have worked better if they had investigated more the Mother's fake corporation. Maybe husband had found out about it and was going to leave her and take the kids.   I buy that reason for the murders more than the one the show used.   It would also explain more why she let the nanny take the fall.  

As usual, quality questions that are left unanswered or unexplored just so Benson can have her emotional moments.

Edited November 2, 2018 by dttruman

[Samantha84]

In twenty seasons you're telling me Olivia & Elliot or any of her other partners never worked a mother kills child(ren) COTW? 

[Samantha84]

One case that sticks out is Munch and Olivia with the woman that killed her infant. John was really effected by it and they had the talk on the roof after he got her confession. I don't expect these writers to have watched every single scene and episode but don't make broad statements that are easily refuted. Olivia has been on this job for more than 20 years; her not catching a mother killing babies case is crazy & sloppy writing  

Edited November 2, 2018 by Samantha84

[SCS]

19 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

 

The only thing that took the episode down a few notches were the Benson/Rollins scenes. Benson’s overdramatize facial expressions and whispering was out in full force tonight, and I hated how Benson was acting like she had never seen anything like this, she’s been an SVU cop for 2 decades, and her saying that mothers don’t kill their children was absurd, I guess she’s never heard of Andrea Yates or Susan Smith. I don’t give a fuck about Benson and Rollins being super mommies and going on about their kids, and I don’t care about the Al storyline either, the Benson/Rollins crap prevented the episode from being great.

 

 

Among Olivia's many breathy murmurings to Amanda was something like, "We're doing this wrong." I can't remember: is this the official final season of SVU (no idea where I think I read that)? Maybe last night was the first step in Olivia's turning in her retirement papers to spend more time with the kid.  

[illdoc]

8 minutes ago, SCS said:

Maybe last night was the first step in Olivia's turning in her retirement papers to spend more time with the kid.  

One can only hope....but I believe we're stuck with Livvie until they pry her badge from her cold, dead fingers!

[BunchOMalarkey]

This was painful and not a good look for professional women. So Liv and Amanda can't be objective because they are mothers? And we're still debating whether women can have it all? Still not clear why she was embezzling. Also, she was cool as a cucumber when she was at that work meeting. And as far as her suicide at the end, that could have been because she was caught and actually had to pay for her crimes. 

[dttruman]

On 11/2/2018 at 2:46 PM, howiveaddict said:

Episode would have worked better if they had investigated more the Mother's fake corporation. Maybe husband had found out about it and was going to leave her and take the kids.   I buy that reason for the murders more than the one the show used.   It would also explain more why she let the nanny take the fall.  

Considering the evidence against her that Fin found, the shoe with her daughter's blood on it and her finger print on the bed or by the bed. I thought both of those could be explained, but when she confessed that took the whole episode in another direction.

The more and more I think about it, I am starting to believe that the writers come up with certain plots and then they are abruptly changed. I.E. this episode. I think your rendition is probably similar to the writers original, but when someone unexpectedly puts in the confession it suddenly changes it to a "crazy" defense which allows Hargitay to go into her soap opera mode.

Edited November 4, 2018 by dttruman

[incandescent]

SVU is in DIRE need of a new detective to express shock and disbelief at the various depravities that the unit must investigate, because having Olivia Benson— who has herself investigated a family annihilator and various murderous mothers— react so naively was just bizarre.