S07.E02: The Longbow Hunters

[Lady Calypso]

Quote

FELICITY IS DETERMINED TO FIND DIAZ AT ANY COST — In order to track down Diaz (Kirk Acevedo) from inside prison, Oliver (Stephen Amell) realizes that will require aligning with an old enemy. Meanwhile, in Star City, Felicity’s (Emily Bett Rickards) attempts to root out Diaz are thwarted by Diggle (David Ramsey), whose allegiance to ARGUS now requires him to keep civilians like her on the outs. Realizing that she can no longer rely on her old team or old methods, a clear-eyed Felicity resolves to find a new way to go after Diaz. Laura Belsey directed the episode written by Jill Blankenship & Rebecca Bellotto (#702). Original airdate 10/22/2018

[BkWurm1]

Nowhere close to as good as the season opener.  Not the worst but frustrating in its own way, extra so because of all the show's unaddressed baggage.  Not loving the retcon with John and the GA costume though to be fair Oliver asking him to wear it never made sense in conjunction with the "deal" that Oliver struck.  Unless John was never a part of it since he'd already moved on to Argus?  Again, way to 180 there Dig.  But happy to have Felicity no longer working with Curtis so if it took losing DIg for a while, sorry, so be it.  

Need to rewatch the show to catch a number of things that went by too fast.  There was a lot packed into the episode.  I'm still confused if they meant to say Oliver and Felicity had left William in the way back past aka our current timeline or if he's talking about the present.  

Edited October 23, 2018 by BkWurm1

[insomniadreams88]

VERY impressed by the Longbow Hunters. Why exactly is Diaz still around now that we have them? Do we/they really need him? No.

I can see where both Felicity and Diggle are coming from, but I'm still Team Felicity. Diggle can't really say anything to her when he has a job, his family, his life, and she has nothing because of Diaz. Also, Arrow, I can't believe you're making me not totally hate Rene or Dinah -- still can't stand Curtis -- and be annoyed with Diggle. Don't do that to me.

Didn't hate the Dinah/BS scenes, mainly because it was just them in them. And okay, fine, BS now feels bad about Vince's death (but I'm still annoyed with that whole "she hesitated!" nonsense), but what about the other people she killed? Do they matter? (My guess is no.) 

Finally, Arrow, I will never believe Oliver and Felicity just left William at any time, so there better be a really good explanation/some sort of twist coming up. 

[KenyaJ]

All this episode proved is that (1) Felicity and Oliver are made for each other, (2) they will do anything to find their way back to each other, and (3) the rest of the so-called "team" are no longer needed here.

I'm so, so glad Felicity left them to do [insert things of no consequence here] and went to Watson. I'm even happier that she reminded Watson that she's done fuck all to hold up her end of Oliver's bargain. And I'm happiest that my suspicions turned out to be wrong and she didn't go to BS. Whew! Dodged a bullet with that one.

Laura Hurley was right. Oliver stabbing himself was the most Oliver thing ever, and I loved it. I love that he's 100% single-mindedly focused on getting back to his wife and child. And I love that he's been learning from his wife. I'd love it even more if he had learned last season not to sacrifice himself for assholes who would never sacrifice anything for him, but I'll take what I can get.

I'm really intrigued by the William/Roy storyline and happy that they're going back to Star City. Obviously, something has happened to Oliver and Felicity because they would never, ever just leave William other any other circumstances. But I'm curious to know why he would think they would? Surely not because of the Diaz situation 20 years ago?

[BkWurm1]

8 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Finally, Arrow, I will never believe Oliver and Felicity just left William at any time, so there better be a really good explanation/some sort of twist coming up

I take consolation that if they did for some reason leave William, at least they left together, lol.  

[Mellowyellow]

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I take consolation that if they did for some reason leave William, at least they left together, lol.  

Me too! That was my first thought! I feel like a terrible person! I love William I do! I'm so sorry! 

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

Laura Hurley was right. Oliver stabbing himself was the most Oliver thing ever, and I loved it.

ME TOO. ::heart eyes:: I love it when he's smart. 

[KillahBee007]

I liked this episode moreso than the premiere although this one wasn’t great. The Longbow Hunters were great. Really great. Felicity stepping out on her own and get the FBI to honor their end of the deal. Watson was a great addition last season. 

 

Diaz still sucks. William is still annoying kid or an adult. I do not like what they are doing with Digg. Throwing him under the bus again to make the n00bs look better. Been there. Done that. Its enough. 

[Primal Slayer]

Well I enjoyed this episode a lot more then I did the premiere. A lot more going on, a nice focus on just about everyone.

While I am SO SAD that Felicity has to go back to her ponytail and dresses (it just seems like her costume at this point....) I was glad to see her consumed with rage and revenge to the point where it was messing with her work. It makes sense, I can dig it, and I am glad that she is trying every way she can to bring down Diaz. Though her coming to Agent Watson and being all "we gonna bring down the Dragon together!" just doesnt make much sense from Watsons POV. What has Watson been doing for the past 6 months? Catching Diaz should be high on her priority list and if it hasnt been....oh lawd.

Finally some good Black Siren work! While we still havent seen how she manages to get through her day2day job, we finally saw some remorse from her and addressing the whole Quentin travesty and the Vigilante "travesty". Though I hope this isnt the beginning of her losing her snark. Her fight scene with Silencer was enjoyable and seeing the Scream Queens work together was nice since at least they arent screaming at each other for a change. I really want to dig into the average day of Laurel and see her interact with the citizens of Star City who were both for and against Black Canary. Though I hope going to that safe house wasnt for nothing info wise.

The Longbow Hunters were enjoyable, mainly Red Dart. Her scene with the cop was fun and I need more of her. Shield guy was boring and his shield was ugly. Silencer has potential but I need to see more of her. Diaz doesnt seem like he learned anything from being with the LBH for 6 months. All he gained was a flame thrower.

This diet version of Civil War between Felicity/John is a lot better and meaningful then what we got last year and a big part is that both have fairly good points and they have a history. Though go figure that John spends a year being pissed he doesnt get to run around in Green and it took Oliver going to prison to be like "yeah....nope..not interested. Green isnt even my favorite color"

Oliver having to play dirty in prison is fun, I kind of want him to become a little bit corrupted or at least notice that he is and fight against it. 

The flashfoward was interesting last episode but didnt do anything for me this episode. Hopefully when they get back to Star City the story can get really interesting.

[apinknightmare]

So, I didn't like this episode. 

I loved Felicity, love that she's taking Watson to task. Loved smart Oliver playing the prison game, and if his creepy prison friend is actually a bad guy I'm going to be very upset. Love that Curtis is busy with ARGUS - keep him there please. 

I can't take the Longbow Hunters seriously for allowing an idiot like Diaz to continue existing. If one of them doesn't off his dumb ass in short order, I will be very disappointed. I also don't really understand William's storyline. Last episode he was paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to get to Lian Yu and told the guy that if he didn't hear from him in a week he wasn't going back. So it seemed like whatever drove him there he was pretty desperate about. Then in this episode he's acting kinda petulant about Felicity and Oliver (and his boyfriend) leaving him - which, yes that would be disappointing, but wasn't there something urgent and upsetting that was driving you to this island to the point where you were willing to give up your life to get there? Was it all because of the beeping hozen? 

I didn't like the retconning of the suit dilemma with Diggle, and...are we really supposed to believe that BS is actually a lawyer? Is that seriously not going to be an issue ever? 

[Guest]

This episode was a bit up and down for me? I liked some of it and was bored for parts of it, too. Still better than most S6 episodes though so let's consider it a win. LOL.

I enjoyed all of Felicity's scenes and I really want her to succeed. She needs a win. She deserves one, too. I'm so relieved she went to team up with Watson and was like "We're doing this!" instead of my fear that she was gonna team up with BS. I also loved that Overwatch is really important to these missions. 

I loved Oliver "my wife taught me a thing or two" Queen being all smart, haha. And I'm liking his little Stan Stanley. I'm gonna be disappointed if he's not who we think he is. 

Delicity. Sigh. I'm disappointed in Diggle. Big time. I actually didn't really recognize him tbh. He felt OOC. I don't know why he said the hood destroyed Olicity and William's family when we all know that Rene got that ball rolling. 

CAN THE WRITERS STOP ACTING LIKE NTA DID NOTHING WRONG IN S6 AND THEY'RE ALL BFF'S FOREVER? STOP IT. I HATE THEM SO MUCH.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Guest

[Chaser]

EBR sounds like Sophia Bush. Raspy.

[UNOSEZ]

I've never been a fan of characters who do detrimental things and act like its ok because they "care" more than others... I'm guessing felicity forgot how jumping the gun worked when her and her hacker buddies freed Cayden James... Like Digg  has been with Ollie from the Jump.. He didn't forget about him he's not putting him and his family in the rearview to only take care of his family... She was way outta order... But the show doesn't like to let Digg let loose and she's grieving so it'll pass.. But me... Nah I wouldn't be having that... Not without some pushback 

[KenyaJ]

45 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm still confused if they meant to say Oliver and Felicity had left William in the way back past aka our current timeline or if he's talking about the present.  

 

After rewatching it, I got the feeling he's talking about the present (future). No one will ever convince me that reuniting with William wouldn't be their second order of business after Oliver gets out of prison. (The first being ALL the sex, of course.)

22 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

CAN THE WRITERS STOP ACTING LIKE NTA DID NOTHING WRONG IN S6 AND THEY'RE ALL BFF'S FOREVER? STOP IT. I HATE THEM SO MUCH.

I can't believe the writers are asking us to forget that 6b ever happened. The newbies spent half a season being completely hateful to Oliver and Felicity and now we're supposed to believe they have their backs? Nope. I will never forget and until it gets acknowledged on screen, I will never forgive either.

Also, Diggle is broken. Oliver refused to let Diggle stay in prison, but Diggle's like "Sorry! Nothing I can do. Suck it up, Felicity." The show hasn't given me a good enough reason for Diggle believing in ARGUS's mission, so him caring more about ARGUS than helping Felicity go after Diaz makes him seem like an asshole rather than a hero. And that makes me so sad. Forget BS. Is Diggle going to have a redemption arc at some point?

I still love him, but I'm mad at him right now.

Edited October 23, 2018 by KenyaJ

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

I've never been a fan of characters who do detrimental things and act like its ok because they "care" more than others... I'm guessing felicity forgot how jumping the gun worked when her and her hacker buddies freed Cayden James... Like Digg  has been with Ollie from the Jump.. He didn't forget about him he's not putting him and his family in the rearview to only take care of his family... She was way outta order... But the show doesn't like to let Digg let loose and she's grieving so it'll pass.. But me... Nah I wouldn't be having that... Not without some pushback 

Didn't Diggle literally say he couldn't put on the hood because of his own family, like he basically did put Oliver in the rearview, IMO. He harshly told Felicity she was never getting Oliver back and to give up. 

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

I'm guessing felicity forgot how jumping the gun worked when her and her hacker buddies freed Cayden James

I still don't get why Cayden James was locked up in the first place. In a storage container. For months.

[BkWurm1]

14 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Delicity. Sigh. I'm disappointed in Diggle. Big time. I actually didn't really recognize him tbh. He felt OOC. I don't know why he said the hood destroyed Olicity and William's family when we all know that Rene got that ball rolling. 

Yeah I don't like history being rewritten but I can comfort myself that people do this all the time.  So I guess this is how Diggle comforts himself for the role he played in the mess Oliver, Felicity and William are in now, by telling himself it was the life and the mask not the people that let Oliver down.  At the same time, I feel safe that it won't take Diggle forever before he realizes the Argus way isn't the way for him so while I'm irritated at the divide, I know it won't ruin my love of Diggle in the long run.  And Felicity got to be the one to walk away from Argus.  Given the skills she brings, if she wanted to stick around I'm sure she could have talked them into letting her stick around.  

18 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I enjoyed all of Felicity's scenes and I really want her to succeed. She needs a win. I'm so relieved she went to team up with Watson and was like "We're doing this!" instead of my fear that she was gonna team up with BS. I also loved that Overwatch is really important to these missions. 

 

Yes to all of this though I remain braced for BS tagging along at some point if Watson isn't getting things done.  

[Velocity23]

2 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

I've never been a fan of characters who do detrimental things and act like its ok because they "care" more than others... I'm guessing felicity forgot how jumping the gun worked when her and her hacker buddies freed Cayden James... Like Digg  has been with Ollie from the Jump.. He didn't forget about him he's not putting him and his family in the rearview to only take care of his family... She was way outta order... But the show doesn't like to let Digg let loose and she's grieving so it'll pass.. But me... Nah I wouldn't be having that... Not without some pushback 

Yeah she forgot how her and Oliver went to Russia to help safe Lyla. Or when Oliver helped Lyla breakout Diggle from prison. Diggle has no room to talk after what he did last season. 

And wasnt Argus basically responsible for creating Cayden. But nice job blaming it all on Felicity.

[tennisgurl]

Sorry show. Turning John into a crappy friend isnt going to make me forgive NTA any quicker. They still suck, and sinking John into the mud with them wont make me like those assholes anymore. 

[BkWurm1]

7 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

I've never been a fan of characters who do detrimental things and act like its ok because they "care" more than others... I'm guessing felicity forgot how jumping the gun worked when her and her hacker buddies freed Cayden James... Like Digg  has been with Ollie from the Jump.. He didn't forget about him he's not putting him and his family in the rearview to only take care of his family... She was way outta order... But the show doesn't like to let Digg let loose and she's grieving so it'll pass.. But me... Nah I wouldn't be having that... Not without some pushback 

It's IMO a case of different priorities.  ARGUS is ok in this case of just putting out the most immediate fire, the weapon, but is ignoring the arsonist out there still setting the fires.  Felicity is looking both at what she needs most, taking Diaz off the board for personal reasons but also it's the answer to the big picture problem.  I don't agree Diaz is anything more than a thug but if he's this huge threat, then it's absurd ARGUS isn't focused on eliminating him.  I mean, Cayden James was never more than a hypothetical threat and they illegally black sited him.  But Diaz and the Longbow Hunters can be allowed to just go free.  AGAIN?  Is that how Diaz escaped last time?  They never bothered to try to catch him?  

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

wasnt Argus basically responsible for creating Cayden.

ARGUS and Diaz. Just another thing Diaz lucked out that it succeeded. Imagine if Cayden had figured out on his own that the video was doctored and Oliver didn't kill his son. Diaz's entire plan would've been ruined. 

It's why watching tonight's episode, I can't believe Arrow introduced the Longbow Hunters, who seem like actual villains and make Diaz seem like a mouse (like I said in the live thread). All of Diaz's plans seem to work because of dumb luck. 

[Guest]

“John you have your life, your home , your family. I lost everything."

Really wish Felicity had said this to those NTA assholes.

[Chaser]

It could be the tarantulas on her face, but I’m not sure BS is sincere. 

[UNOSEZ]

2 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Diggle has no room to talk after what he did last season. 

I disagree... Diggle has been there for almost every save.. Every big fight.. A shoulder to cry on... A brother to share the burden with.. And they had a disagreement about stuff.. The first major one in like six years.. He didn't betray anyone.. He disagreed and decided to try a different way... As for Felicity.. My beef was for how she came at diggle like he stopped caring about Oliver that's never been the case he's always been loyal... When it comes to Cayden James.. Slice it how you want.. It was felicity and her friends who let him out.. Misguided idealism doesn't excuse the chaos that madman let loose in the city

[Soulfire]

"WWGAD?"

"What?"

"What would Green Arrow do?"

As a friend of mine said: the episodes begin and end with Oliver and Felicity taking leading, making tough decisions and fighting back. I enjoy how, in a season where Oliver and Felicity are separated, it still feels focused on them as a couple.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Soulfire

[Velocity23]

1 minute ago, UNOSEZ said:

I disagree... Diggle has been there for almost every save.. Every big fight.. A shoulder to cry on... A brother to share the burden with.. And they had a disagreement about stuff.. The first major one in like six years.. He didn't betray anyone.. He disagreed and decided to try a different way... As for Felicity.. My beef was for how she came at diggle like he stopped caring about Oliver that's never been the case he's always been loyal... When it comes to Cayden James.. Slice it how you want.. It was felicity and her friends who let him out.. Misguided idealism doesn't excuse the chaos that madman let loose in the city

He told her to move on. After Argus couldnt catch Diaz when he attacked her and her son. And lets not forget Argus and Diggle could not get anything on Diaz in the past 6 months. How can he expect of her to trust him and Argus. And just sit by. Diggle has that luxury, Felicity doesnt. Its not like she is no longer a target after the sacrifice Oliver had to make, because of the actions of Diggle and NTA. 

[UNOSEZ]

5 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

It's IMO a case of different priorities.  ARGUS is ok in this case of just putting out the most immediate fire, the weapon, but is ignoring the arsonist out there still setting the fires.  Felicity is looking both at what she needs most, taking Diaz off the board for personal reasons but also it's the answer to the big picture problem.  I don't agree Diaz is anything more than a thug but if he's this huge threat, then it's absurd ARGUS isn't focused on eliminating him.  I mean, Cayden James was never more than a hypothetical threat and they illegally black sited him.  But Diaz and the Longbow Hunters can be allowed to just go free.  AGAIN?  Is that how Diaz escaped last time?  They never bothered to try to catch him?  

Agreed with the priorities thing.. Shows like this always paint the govt agency as heartless and only thinking big picture  while our heroes care about the little guy and are always seemingly ok with putting more ppl in danger hypothetically... If they can save whi they care about

 

Anyway that canary/siren fight was the highpoint for me

[jay741982]

18 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

I've never been a fan of characters who do detrimental things and act like its ok because they "care" more than others... I'm guessing felicity forgot how jumping the gun worked when her and her hacker buddies freed Cayden James... Like Digg  has been with Ollie from the Jump.. He didn't forget about him he's not putting him and his family in the rearview to only take care of his family... She was way outta order... But the show doesn't like to let Digg let loose and she's grieving so it'll pass.. But me... Nah I wouldn't be having that... Not without some pushback 

No this show pushes the POS Newbies and acts like they weren't assholes last year one hacked into a Chip in Digs arm hurting him and another swung an Ax at Oliver. No the Writers prefer to Have Felicity fistbumping the Man who swung a Ax at her Husband and still be Friends with a Loser who did what he did to Dig last year.  They refuse to stop shoving Newbs in faces of people who can't stand them and insist on having Felicity be Friends with them while Straining her friendship with a Man she s known longer to try make the Newbs likeable It's BS 

[La Dee Da]

A workman-like episode - nothing flashy, settling in for the long run. I didn’t expect much reflection from NTA (it would’ve been too brief to be satisfying anyway) but they could have done more to flesh out Dig’s storyline. The suit represented leadership and now he has it with Argus. But it comes with juggling various urgencies and agendas, as represented by director whatshisname, that makes it difficult to operate in the old ways. That’s what was needed there.

i was a bit concerned with the flash forwards last week - would they resolve too much and rob the show of tension - but it was a light touch this week. It’s like Felicity and Oliver set up a scavenger hunt!

I have to salute logic of all things this week. Oliver came up with a great plan to get rid of the guard. And the FBI was absolutely the right port of call for Felicity...or is it Agent Smoak now? 

Enjoyed the new villains - not sure why they need to work for Diaz though.

[statsgirl]

ARGUS not only created the weapon, it was one of their facilities that lost it. Of course that's what they want to concentrate on, they're covering their own asses. Also ARGUS FAILED TO PROTECT FELICITY AND WILLIAM.

It's a good thing Oliver likes working out, he's got lots of time to look good for Felicity.

I still don't get why it's so important to Dinah to make sure BS is protected. 

Why don't the Longbow Hunters have any bows?  If each of them has an NTA counterpart, having Silence be the Canaries foe is nice symmetry.  But no way are Curtis and Rene any match for that clever lady and Kodiak respectively.

The parallel fights continues.  Last week it was Olver/Felicity; this time it's Diggle on train/Canaries.  Last week's worked out better.

We learned that William is gay and has commitment issues. Fic writers take note.

How long ago did Felicity put the coordinates of the island in the hozen? William talks like they left decades ago.  I'm guessing that the arc for the flash forwards this season is finding out what happened to Oliver and Felicity.

If I were the Longbow Hunters, I'd get rid of that incompetent Diaz.

Edited October 23, 2018 by statsgirl

[UNOSEZ]

2 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

He told her to move on. After Argus couldnt catch Diaz when he attacked her and her son. And lets not forget Argus and Diggle could not get anything on Diaz in the past 6 months. How can he expect of her to trust him and Argus. And just sit by. Diggle has that luxury, Felicity doesnt. Its not like she is no longer a target after the sacrifice Oliver had to make, because of the actions of Diggle and NTA. 

He could expect the trust he's built up being right by her side for the past 7 years... Because if someone can only believe you or believe in you when youre doing what they need you to do.. Well I dunno what you call that... 

 

All that being said they still ended the episode in a decent place.. They understood each other and there didn't seem to be any real hard feelings 

[KenyaJ]

At some point, I hope we get flashforward flashbacks of Oliver (and presumably, Felicity) returning to Lian Yu to bury his bow and arrows. It makes me suspect that, at some point, Oliver gets his wish of giving the Green Arrow up and living a normal life (normal for him, anyway). I have so many questions about the FF storyline, which is bad since there probably won't be any real answers this season or maybe even next.

[thuganomics85]

Aww, it's never fun when Mom and Uncle Johnny... err, I mean Felicity and Diggle are at odds.  I see both of their sides, but I'm still more in Felicity's corner mainly because I always found ARGUS to be some shady and incompetent frankly that I find Diggle's sudden loyalty towards them baffling.  And while I understand him not wanting to wear the Hood, it really feels weird that he is all "Oliver ain't ever coming back, Felicity!", and isn't even trying to find some way to help him out.  It just feels like he's given up for some reason.  Of course, Felicity isn't blameless for how she kept trying to go behind his back and she is arguably letting her personal feelings overrule the greater good (although I'm still iffy on that), but I'm glad she's realized that they aren't working out, and is going to try her own thing.  Even if I don't fully trust Agent Watson.

The Longbow Hunters arrive and are already more badass then Diaz.  Toss in Brick actually being a fun antagonist for Oliver in the pin, and I really wonder why we're apparently stuck with Diaz for the rest of this season.

Not sure I was dying for The Adventures of Laurel and Dinah, and them continuing to try and push the silly idea that Quentin actually meant something to "Laurel", and feels regret for her evil past.  This episode certainly didn't change my mind.

So, at some point in the future, William loses ties with both Oliver and Felicity.  But Old Man Roy seems to have an idea what Felicity wanted William to do.  Also, William has a boyfriend.  Good to know, I guess.

I really do not trust Oliver's prison buddy for some reason.

Not the best episode, but the Felicity/Diggle conflict brought great acting and interaction from Emily Bett Rickards and David Ramsey as always, so I can't complain too much.

[Guest]

Diggle's attitude was especially hard to stomach when Oliver and Felicity both traveled to Russia to help Diggle save Lyla, no questions asked. I know they're two different situations but they've both been there for him and I feel like Diggle didn't really offer the same courtesy and IDK why. I don't get it. We've had like 5/6 seasons of Diggle side-eying ARGUS so for him to be such a stickler for them and their rules didn't feel earned or right tbh.

[statsgirl]

12 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

I'm still more in Felicity's corner mainly because I always found ARGUS to be some shady and incompetent frankly that I find Diggle's sudden loyalty towards them baffling.

Diggle's ex military.  He's trained to follow orders so it makes sense that he would find it easier to follow ARGUS' orders (Kohlberg stage four of moral development) than work out on his own what to do (stage six).

Edited October 23, 2018 by statsgirl

[Guest]

The Dinah/Laurel thing didn't work for me and felt forced. I already know I'm not gonna survive this season without fastforwarding through their scenes when they team up again.

[insomniadreams88]

I almost feel like Diggle and NTA would rather Felicity return to witness protection so they can go back to living their 701 lives. Out of sight, out of mind. 

[Chaser]

I thought the silencer effect was cool. I really hope they pull a S6 (yes I said that) and have the Longbow Hunters take out Diaz. And then introduce the Real Big Bad. I like the Hunters better than Diaz but I’m not sold on any Villains right now. 

I’m struggling with Diggle hard right now. I can understand him wanting to do things the Argus way. He’s been burned by the vigilante thing. I don’t understand him telling Felicity to just move on? I also don’t understand him threatening to turn Rene in. Oliver want to jail for their immunity. I hate that and think it was stupid, but Diggle should respect it.

Felicity is getting things done. Here for all that.

I’m interested in Roy and William, but I’m concerned about the endpoint. It’s a tough set up. I did like the implication Olicity is alive and together. 

BS/Dinah. Jello. 

[Primal Slayer]

18 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

 

I still don't get why it's so important to Dinah to make sure BS is protected. 

Because the DA dying doesn't make SCPD look good. Though the Mayor probably needs round the clock protection. 

[Chaser]

Surprisingly, similar to last week, Rene annoyed me the least of NTA. 

[jay741982]

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I almost feel like Diggle and NTA would rather Felicity return to witness protection so they can go back to living their 701 lives. Out of sight, out of mind. 

I just wish these fucking writers would stop pushing and Protecting the Newbies and Had Felicity tear into Rene for starting the ball rolling towards Her Oliver and William's situation. Seeing her fistbump that prick and be friends with this guy who once swung an Ax at her Husband makes me sick. Also being friends with Losers Curtis and Dinah. 

[scarynikki12]

22 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I still don't get why it's so important to Dinah to make sure BS is protected.

At this point I'm guessing that every lawyer in America wrote to the American Bar Association to say that they will NEVER agree to be the DA in Star City.  So all that's left is Black Siren who has zero legal education.

[apinknightmare]

28 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

At some point, I hope we get flashforward flashbacks of Oliver (and presumably, Felicity) returning to Lian Yu to bury his bow and arrows. It makes me suspect that, at some point, Oliver gets his wish of giving the Green Arrow up and living a normal life (normal for him, anyway). I have so many questions about the FF storyline, which is bad since there probably won't be any real answers this season or maybe even next.

Agreed. I was worried that this wasn't going to wind up ultimately making sense because they'd want to keep some suspense while feeding us tidbits about what happened, and that they'd wind up misrepresenting something in order to keep that up. Last episode William seemed so desperate to get to Roy, and this episode he seemed kind of petulant? Oh, Oliver and Felicity left me, my boyfriend left me too, like he was just sulking about those things and they weren't what drove him to the island.

He also spoke about Roy like he never saw him again after he and Thea left for their trip, but somehow Roy knows exactly where to look in Oliver's bow for a message and gets exactly what it means? They set it up like this was all done sometime in the past - behind the current timeline, when Roy was still around and a member of the team. But there's no way that Oliver and Felicity would ever stop looking for William if they somehow were unable to get him back from boarding school, so they must be missing in the present, and planted that scavenger hunt between now and the flash forwards. But if they're missing in the present, then why does William seem pissed off about it instead of like he's frantic to find them? 

I hate this and my brain hurts, the end. 

Edited October 23, 2018 by apinknightmare

[Mellowyellow]

That was a competent set up episode and by far the best second ep I have seen of all the CW DC shows this week.

I get Dig not taking up the mantle. What he said about his family makes sense but WTF was he on last season when he had a meltdown at Oliver about Oliver not giving him the suit? Writers????? What are you smoking and you should smoke the same shit when you are writing for the same characters! I blame the writers for that more than Dig and I am going to pretend that 617 got deleted forever in the archives.

The Dig vs Felicity was well done. I could see both sides in terms of arguments and the words that were said but it looks like ARGUS built a dangerous weapon and then spent the rest of the episode focused on recovering it to cover their ass. Nice one ARGUS. 

Dig peacing out and being totes ok with Oliver being in jail forever is not working for me. He acted like he wanted Felicity to deal with it and go find a new hobby or something. The freaking love of her life is in jail possibly forever. How the f@ck is she supposed to be ok with it? I was understanding when Barry didn't care about wiping out the universe to save his Mumma so I am more than ok with Felicity defying dumbass shady ARGUS to save the love of her life. Fairly harmless in the scheme of things if you ask me!

I listened to the BS/BC scenes and surfed the net instead of watching them. In all fairness I watched a few minutes and their faces/expressions are the same so I figured I only needed the dialogue since the "acting" wasn't going to bring anything to the table.

Bahahahahhaha at weeny Diaz and his fire gun!!!! Bahahahaha do they make him funny on purpose?????

Oliver in jail was enjoyable in this episode (no as a shipper my ship being separated is never ever a good thing but if we must have a jailbird arc this ep's one was fun). What a clever cookie he is. LOVE the Green Arrow/Overwatch mention. It was so cute his face when he said he'd get Overwatch to gather info. His face totally softened. No matter how I feel about SA he plays a superb Oliver Queen.

I like older William. I like that he's kinda petulant and is Felicity's kid when it comes to brains and tech. WHERE ARE FUTURE OLICITY??? OMG we will never find out will we? Are they together? It's implying they went off somewhere. I am somewhat consoled for now that they are together. THEY BETTER FFING BE TOGETHER!!!!!!!!

[way2interested]

3 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I already know I'm not gonna survive this season without fastforwarding through their scenes when they team up again.

I literally watched them as parody scenes and it made them 5x better

 

7 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I’m struggling with Diggle hard right now. I can understand him wanting to do things the Argus way. He’s been burned by the vigilante thing. I don’t understand him telling Felicity to just move on?

The way I was trying to understand it is that maybe Diggle was projecting a bit, like telling himself really to move on because maybe it will be revealed that he's actually internally struggling with this whole Argus thing (maybe not, but idk it's a head canon I like). In doing things the Argus way it would be easier and more straightforward and no """sacrifice""" (whatever, retcon, I'll try to follow you), but it's not who he really is and it's not the man who's Oliver's brother, or trying to stick in that "redemption for every character" thing Beth was talking about

11 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I also don’t understand him threatening to turn Rene in. Oliver want to jail for their immunity. I hate that and think it was stupid, but Diggle should respect it.

I don't get why exactly Diggle threatened Rene personally, but in 701 Dinah reiterated that if they did any vigilante work, the FBI would haul them all in despite Oliver's deal, which is why the newbs and Diggle were wondering who the new GA was in the first place so they wouldn't get in trouble. It might have been kind of a "if you're going to be this stupid, I'll turn you in myself" thing, I guess, rather than Diggle actually going against what Oliver did, or at least according to how 701 set it up.

[Lantern7]

I reckon this is more of a 9 p.m. series than Legends of Tomorrow . . . but if they swapped, it would be like having dessert before the liver-stuffed brussel sprouts.

I mean, the drama and angst is up there, but it's not unbearable yet. That said, why in the name of all that's holy is Diaz still alive?!? I don't care if the Longbow Hunters killed him by the end of the year to show They Mean Business. He's still a thug with little charisma whose main ability is not getting the murder he deserves.

I'm still irked by Laurel-2. I get the idea of a theme of Canaries coming together . . . but if Sara were to drop by for the express purpose of beating her "sister" to a pulp, I am all for that.

In the parlance of The Dark Knight Returns, Oliver Queen does not shiv. Okay, he does shiv, but just himself in order to lose a targeted guard. The theatrics afterward were also funny.

Still not getting Future William. Missed the part about him being gay (per @statsgirl). I think I know the deal behind the Longbow Hunters in the sense of gimmicks. They do look professional, which is what we need right now. This is in contrast to last season, where we got the villain equivalent of the Mon-Stars. Sadly, in that version of Space Jam, the least interesting one lived.

[Guest]

Those flashforwards....I was so distracted by the info William dropped in that first flash that I missed some of the episode, haha.

I don't believe Olicity would ever abandon their son. It just wouldn't happen. So something has very obviously happened. The question is...when? I don't like the sound of them being missing for years because this is a set future that we can't change. I'd prefer if they disappeared only a few months previously. But then William's attitude didn't add up to that. Actually, his attitude didn't really add up to someone whose parents left him years ago either. He seemed really strange. I also thought he might be lying. IDK.

I'm definitely intrigued to see what they're doing but I'm also very apprehensive about them, too. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Wait. Just wait a fucking minute. I thought Diggle said he was leaving Team Arrow because he wanted to be his own man? Didn’t want to follow anyone? And here he is, back to taking orders like a peon. So he can just STFU right now. I felt so bad and so much for Felicity. She has NO ONE who has her back while Oliver is in prison. 

I fast forwarded 99.999% of the Dinah and Black Canary scenes, but I did catch where that poseur was saying how SHE had the right to put Marblemushmouth down because he killed Quentin. Did I hear that right? GTFO! With that noise. SHE was the one who let him GO!!!?????????

I’m loving Smart and Cunning Oliver. But I do wish Amell would use his lower pitched raspy voice for the voiceover.

The way grown up Will was talking, it sounded like Oliver and Felicity left him alone years ago. Which is just BULLSHIT. Because Will was telling Roy that’s what they did and Roy said they left you on your own whatever? In a tone that was shocked they would do that to a kid. It makes no sense if they left him (which they DIDN’T!) when he was all grown up.

I also got the sense that Thea is dead, the quick way Roy shut Will down about how he was with her the last time he saw them.

These writers, I swear, have learned NOTHING and still continue to insult the viewers and apparently continue to write SHIT that they think viewers will swallow.

Maybe it’s wishful thinking, but the look on Diggle’s face as Felicity left made me think mebbe he’s working some kind of sting to get Marblemushmouth? I don’t care. He didn’t do right by her or their friendship.????

[apinknightmare]

8 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Those flashforwards....I was so distracted by the info William dropped in that first flash that I missed some of the episode, haha.

I don't believe Olicity would ever abandon their son. It just wouldn't happen. So something has very obviously happened. The question is...when? I don't like the sound of them being missing for years because this is a set future that we can't change. I'd prefer if they disappeared only a few months previously. But then William's attitude didn't add up to that. Actually, his attitude didn't really add up to someone whose parents left him years ago either. He seemed really strange. I also thought he might be lying. IDK.

I'm definitely intrigued to see what they're doing but I'm also very apprehensive about them, too. 

Yeah. William knows Oliver and Felicity's names, he knows what they look like. He's old enough (and smart enough, apparently, given his occupation in the future) to have been able to find them if he wanted to when he was old enough if they did in fact abandon him at the boarding school (but there's no way that can happen unless O/F flat out leave town for good or they relocate under new identities and we follow them in their new adventures). So, I guess maybe they go missing in the future sometime. But this episode he just sounded like an angry kid whose parents went off on vacation without him, not like someone who was actually concerned about their whereabouts. It almost seemed like they went on a business trip or something and he had no reason to be alarmed until the hozen started beeping. Flash forwards are supposed to involve following a fun trail of breadcrumbs that the writers drop, not thinking...wtf this makes no sense in any possible way. 

The more Arrow changes, the more it stays the same, LOL.

Edited October 23, 2018 by apinknightmare

[Chris24601]

I'm almost wondering if the nonsensical bits in the flash-forward stuff isn't actually a clue that its happening on an alternate Earth or something that will play a role in the mid-season crossover event.

Probably not. But thinking they could be makes them much more tolerable.