S20.E03: Zero Tolerance

[dttruman]

This is from the "info" button concerning tonight's episode and it has a major spoiler in it.

Spoiler

Benson

and Stone strive to reunite a young girl rescued from a sex trafficker with her mother. One of the guest stars is Carl Weathers. I always like him, from his comedy role as Chubbs in "Happy Gilmore" to classic Apollo Creed in "Rocky". Hope they don't waste his talents here.

Edited October 4, 2018 by dttruman

[Xeliou66]

I have a feeling this is going to be a heavy handed, preachy political crap fest with Benson on a soapbox for an hour and saving the world in the process. 

Only thing I’m looking forward to is Carl Weathers reprising his role as Mark Jefferies from Chicago Justice, I liked him on that show and a Jefferies/Stone reunion should be good. 

[dttruman]

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I have a feeling this is going to be a heavy handed

My "spoiler" was a little heavy handed too. Hope everyone got a little chuckle out of it. If not, I apologize for the huge disappointment I put you all through.

[Gigglepuff]

Opening with Peter Hermann's book, lol. 

[MrsRafaelBarba]

What a PIG!!!

[Fellaway]

5 hours ago, dttruman said:

My "spoiler" was a little heavy handed too. Hope everyone got a little chuckle out of it. If not, I apologize for the huge disappointment I put you all through.

I think you weren't wrong.  ::g::  Show is off to a rousing !Benson! start.  Carisi looks awkwardly at Benson when they go to talk to Delilah at the hospital?  He can't deal with the girl in the cage?  How long has he been on SVU now?  Sheesh.

Seriously, Show, Jesse just has to be reading MH's hubby's book?  Oh, and we have to plug it as "great"?  

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Soap box INCOMING!!!!

[Fellaway]

Why would Rollins think Carisi would go all "Catholic" on her about learning she's pregnant?  He couldn't have been more chill about her and her business the first time she was pregnant.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Rollins BF is a Creeper.

Annnnd we have lift off! 

[HunterHunted]

I can't figure out which is the bigger Hate Crime: the writing, Olivia's sanctimony, or Mariska's acting.

Law & Order: Hate Crimes coming soon on NBC.

Edited October 5, 2018 by HunterHunted

[MrsRafaelBarba]

I'll find someone who will.

 

She actually said that to Stone?

Sit your ass down Benson!

[statsgirl]

While I appreciate an attempt to publicize the current state of affairs beyond the New England Journal of Medicine and Lancet editorials that I have been reading (and they're very anti- the current policy, as far as I've been told, crossing the border in order to seek asylum in the US is not illegal.

The last shot, with all the children behind the fence watching them walk away, was awesome.

Edited October 5, 2018 by statsgirl

[HunterHunted]

21 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

I'll find someone who will.

 

She actually said that to Stone?

I was like who? Who? The DA's office shouldn't have sent anyone to defend this fucking foolishness. Or if they did, send some recent law school graduate who has no clue what they're doing. And then, she thinks she can just jump up and shout the judge and attorneys down. She should have been found in contempt of ccourt with a call sent to One Police Plaza telling them that need to make this loon retire. All of this is a blatant abuse of her authority and straight up delusional.

The biggest issue with the writing on this show is that it used to be really comfortable giving these type of lines to advocates, social workers, defense attorneys, and individuals outside the squad. And when these viewpoints were expressed, the cops were free to respond that the situation is screwed up, but only elected officials and judges can change the law and that the cops' hands were tied. But now St. Olivia can just unilaterally speechify and suddenly the law is somehow different.

This show is a freaking travesty. Olivia has managed to change the detention policies for one undocumented girl, meanwhile thousands more don't get shit. Also screw you dozens of American minors who were being raped and pimped out by Uncle Luke. Really think about the fucked-up priorities in this episode. We have American children staying with a pedophile rather than going back to their families, but Olivia spending her time focusing on a girl who had a safe foster home.

Rollins really has the crappiest taste in men.

Edited October 5, 2018 by HunterHunted

[Laurie4H]

So contrived it made me sick.

[wknt3]

The Good:
Carl Weathers. Never saw Chicago Justice, but I've always liked him and he did a good job here.
They've continued to build on last year's improvement in involving the whole squad in cases by showing members of the squad besides Benson connecting with the victims on a deep emotional level.
It wasn't a two-parter
The Federal judge smacking down Benson's nonsense.

The Bad:
The script. This might be the worst writing since the depths of Season 18, being just as bad as far as preachiness, a complete disregard for any sort of realism, and Benson worship, and ranking ahead of that nadir only by virute of maintaining some sense of narrative coherence.
Rollins baby drama. I'm seriously wishing we could have Benoah instead.
Pod Stone has come much earlier than I feared. I can't believe that he would go to court to defend her after telling her that her actions were clearly illegal and wrong despite his agreeing with her on policy. And that he would let her get away with telling him that she would find someone else to prosecute if he didn't do what she wanted. WTF?
I know it's minor compared to the other complaints, but did moving to 10pm mean we're going to get gratuitous profanity every week? Or is it just that they can't be bothered to come up with an actual cutting insult for Fin instead of him calling the guy in interrogation an asshole, just like they couldn't come up with a better way of portraying toxic masculinity than having the characters tossing around the word pussy every few minutes?
Every moment Benson was on screen. It's like all of Mariska's worst impulses which had been largely contained lat year broke through and came flooding over the airwaves.

Overall this was a turd. A big stinky pile actually. And the thing is it wouldn't have been hard to do something good with the concept. Perhaps put the agent on trial for negligence, letting a little girl end up in that situation, instead of kidnapping so there is an actual colorable case? With an actual trial where you can lay out the depressing facts and explore why the defenses of the current policy are wrong? Or perhaps they can't make the case against the trafficker because NYC and the feds won't cooperate? I'm firmly of the belief that there aren't two equal sides here, but there is a difference between taking a clear stand (which SVU has always been more willing to do than the mothership) and condemning injustice, and contrived nonsense which fails as both entertainment and advocacy. This was a huge step backwards for the show. Hopefully next week will be better and we can just move forward agreeing to never speak of it again.

Edited October 5, 2018 by wknt3
fix typos

[MrsRafaelBarba]

So Stone teleported to Chicago in the same suit.

 

To get Apollo Creed to save the day.

 

Is it wrong, that I wanted someone to throw a shoe at Benson?

 

 

When she started flapping her gums in Court.

 

Or

 

Kick that worn out soapbox from underneath her feet.

[ChristiKRN]

Sweet Jesus.  This episode was as bad as the episode from 2 seasons ago when Benson persuaded Barba to prosecute the college security guard passing himself off as an college admissions dean for rape.  I don't even know where to start.  

They could have made an episode out of trying to nail Uncle Luke, the sex trafficker, and getting justice for the girl who was dumped at the ER since they are the Special Victims' unit after all.  That was obviously small potatoes when they can shed light on even more hot button topics than they did last week.  

Benson literally lost her mind tonight.  Once again, she couldn't keep her emotions in check from arresting the federal agent to barely holding it together in front of the media to interfering in the courtroom proceedings.   Where the heck is Dodds Sr to either put her in place or just fire her altogether?  She  was completely out of control. 

At first, I thought Stone was going to hold his ground with Benson but obviously I was wrong.  Who can say no to Benson and a little girl's drawing of her home  in another country even when there was not a policy or law to stand on?  What the heck is wrong with him?  And to "threaten" him with she can find another ADA who will help? I would love for Benson to try any of her BS with Jack McCoy. 

If I was Carisi, I would be insulted that Benson feels like she is the only one that can connect with a victim as evidenced by how she took over in the ER.  

Too much Rollins' pregnancy drama.  It started off at the beginning and kept rolling throughout the show.  If the show is chronological, Dr. Al cheated on her in the spring with prostitutes then she had unprotected sex with him on July 4th, knowing he was with prostitutes.  Dumb as a rock.  

[Fellaway]

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

Rollins really has the crappiest taste in men.

Boy, does she.  I hope that's the last we see of him.  

[HunterHunted]

39 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

Carl Weathers. Never saw Chicago Justice, but I've always liked him and he did a good job here.

34 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

To get Apollo Creed to save the day.

 

He's got a stew going!

[Xeliou66]

Yeah, that was about as bad as I expected. A ton of preachy political crap, and the St Olivia worship was in full force. She’s completely lost it, she has no objectivity, let’s her emotions dictate the way she does her job, and is completely unfit to run a squad, she uses her position to push a social agenda. Where the fuck is Dodds? He needs to remove her from command immediately and place Fin in charge!! Benson should’ve had her ass dragged out of court in handcuffs. 

Stone has already turned into a puppet, letting Benson boss him around, and seriously Benson saying “I’ll find an ADA who will!” Seriously, where are you going to do that Benson? ADA’s don’t answer to YOU, you insane egomaniac!! They answer to McCoy, who wouldn’t want his ADA’s wasting time on defending an arrest with no merit, I’m surprised he didn’t rip Peter for agreeing to do it. Again they missed an oppurtunity to reference McCoy, I think he would’ve been livid at the arrest of an agent doing his job, and why couldn’t they have just had Jefferies have a line like “how’s Jack McCoy doing” or “what’s it like working for Jack McCoy” since last season established McCoy and Jefferies are friends. I feel like they’ve forgotten McCoy and Dodds, we could at least reference them even if we don’t see them, maybe it’s because Dodds and McCoy would rip into them for some of the crap they pull.

It was good to see Jefferies again and I liked the Jefferies/Stone reunion. 

I actually enjoyed the first half, it felt like a classic SVU investigation before we got into the political shit, I loved Fin, seeing him undercover was cool, I laughed it his “no asshole, sit down” line to Vince, he was just awesome like always. I felt like he hit the nail on the head with his lines about immigration at the end, it is a very complex issue with no easy solution, and I actually thought the conversation between Fin, Rollins and Carisi was fairly well done and not heavy handed, especially compared to the scenes with Benson on her soapbox. 

I don’t care about Rollins and her pregnancy, and I’m afraid this isn’t the last we’ve seen of Dr Al. Why Rollins would even think about getting back together with him beyond me, but then again a lot of things Rollins does are beyond me. And Al had never met Jesse or been to Rollins apartment before? That was incredibly weird. Al gives off such a phony vibe and I’m wondering if he’s going to be a perp. 

My main takeaway is that this show has the potential to be good, the investigation in the first half showed that, but Benson/Mariska and her gigantic ego is destroying the show. Mariska is just using the show to preach her views on hot button issues, and it’s ruining the quality of the show.  

Edited October 5, 2018 by Xeliou66

[mommalib]

Fin should be in charge not Olivia.

[dttruman]

22 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I have a feeling this is going to be a heavy handed, preachy political crap fest with Benson on a soapbox for an hour

I would like to nominate XELIO66 for clairvoyant of the year award. I was wondering if I could consult with you  about 6 numbers concerning the Mega Millions jackpot of $405 mil. You nailed this episode completely.

I have never seen Benson at her preachiest until this episode. Did they throw away the playbook of realism just to satisfy Hargitay's delusions of grandeur? 

They started off by getting her mock athletic heroic moment out of the way early, when she tackled that sex trafficker into those boxes. I guess Hargitay didn't think the breaking up and prosecution of a pedophile and a sex trafficking ring (especially of underage girls) weren't important enough for this episode. It could have been a good episode.

Everything that happened after the arrest of the trafficker was a complete farce. Benson should be drawing a lot of reprimands for what she did, starting with when she had that federal officer arrested for kidnapping. Wouldn't the Feds have sent a lady agent to pick up Gabriella, or at most a man and female agents? I believe we can officially label Stone as Benson's "Lapdog", for taking this for a court hearing. When they intentionally leave out their superiors' involvement, realism became irrelevant and their social agenda became paramount. this episode goes in the junk pile as far as I am concern.

By the way, does Mariska Hargitay have aspirations of running for office or something when the show is cancelled?

6 hours ago, mommalib said:

Fin should be in charge not Olivia.

So true!

Edited October 5, 2018 by dttruman

[Gigi43]

So my expectations were on the floor before it started, because during The Good Place there was a promo with the episode with a tag line "Benson v. The United States." It was as bad as I expected. Stone, you had so much potential on what I saw on Justice but you're already taking orders from Benson. Enjoy being a zombie, find Barba for tips... or something.

 

Other than Benson's over all demeanor and the preachiness of the episode it also made me mad that Rollins told Carisi to "not go Catholic" when Liv basically did what it sounded like she thought Carisi would do.

 

Oh Ice never leave us. I did love the "no asshole sit down!" However if they keep playing with their new 10pm words (though I can't recall asshole being allowed on network before) it's going to make for a weird year in syndication since they'll be dubbed or edited out when its airing in a rerun in the middle of the day. And thank you to whoever had Fin's final line in the immigration talk. Specifically I get 2nd hand embarrassment when someone who thinks they're being so liberal and caring says what Rollins did about "well they'll do the jobs Americans don't want!" since it sounds so much like a new version in the making of... what Fin countered with.

[Bexx88]

9 hours ago, Fellaway said:

Why would Rollins think Carisi would go all "Catholic" on her about learning she's pregnant?  He couldn't have been more chill about her and her business the first time she was pregnant.

SVU can only deal with one personality trait in their non Benson or Stone characters these days, and they will beat it to death. Carisi’s trait is 1920’s Catholic. Or alternately, pizza.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Bexx88

[Xeliou66]

I was irritated as well by Rollins line to Carisi “don’t go all Catholic on me”, Carisi seems like he would support whatever decision Rollins made, it was Benson who was trying to convince Rollins to have the baby and was using emotional manipulation to do so, but of course Rollins didn’t call Benson out on it, because no one can ever criticize the holy St Olivia or even suggest she’s in the wrong.

I didn’t think the use of “asshole” was a big deal, and I don’t think that SVU is using “gratuitous profanity”, one line isn’t gratuitous and using some profanity makes the show realistic, I don’t feel like they are using a lot of profanity to appear “edgy” or forcing it down our throats. I thought it was a classic Fin line and one of the best moments of what was an overall shit fest. 

I enjoyed the investigation in the first half a lot, it felt like classic SVU and showed SVU still has the potential to be a good show, but the second half was just downright brutal with its St Olivia worship and political preaching, as well as Puppet Stone. 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Xeliou66

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

I have never seen Benson at her preachiest in this episode

Me either. IMO it was truly over-the-top. I'm finally done with The Olivia Benson Hour and can only hope this will be the last season of SVU.

The Ion network runs old episodes of SVU back when it functioned like a real ensemble show. They are so hard to watch now, especially when you can see how one by one everyone except Ice-T left and MH's role got bigger and bigger. NBC has let her eat the show.

[dttruman]

55 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I didn’t think the use of “asshole” was a big deal, and I don’t think that SVU is using “gratuitous profanity”, one line isn’t gratuitous and using some profanity makes the show realistic,

Is there a new rule, that you can use profanity (to a certain point) after 10pm?

[dttruman]

57 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I enjoyed the investigation in the first half a lot, it felt like classic SVU and showed SVU still has the potential to be a good show

Agreed!!   Do you think the writers come up with these ideas and then write an outline for the script? Throw in a few lines of dialogue to give it some substance, then watch as Hargitay pulls out her red marker and starts chopping it up to her satisfaction?

[Cajungirl64]

Yikes. I must be the only person who thought this was a moving episode in which ALL the characters were involved... The last scene was sickening. Welcome to America, indeed.

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, Cajungirl64 said:

Yikes. I must be the only person who thought this was a moving episode in which ALL the characters were involved... The last scene was sickening. Welcome to America, indeed.

I would say most of us agree that it starts out as a good episode, but for some reason it segways off to a subplot, that soon becomes the main premise of the episode. I believe all of us here loved the old episodes, back when the main premise was the coverage of the investigation of "Special victims" crimes and maybe also the prosecution of the accused.

But would you say over the years, the premise has changed where they are now focused on the personal lives of the unit and the investigation of the crimes has become secondary? Would you also say that some of the realism has been lost also, along with most of the cast? They are now down to 3 detectives and a Lieutenant who runs it, but seems to spend a lot of time in the field investigating and also telling the ADA who (and how) to prosecute.

[dttruman]

55 minutes ago, kicotan said:

St. Olivia, from the Holy Order of Do No Wrong might as well be a comic book character with superhuman powers.  No objection from the court for her outburst, no consequences or even a conversation from superiors about her agenda based focus.

Are all these unbelievable skewed sequence of events suppose to be benefiting the TV show or is it in reality spotlighting Mariska Haritay's foundation and her political and social agendas

Edited October 5, 2018 by dttruman

[Gigi43]

3 hours ago, dttruman said:

Is there a new rule, that you can use profanity (to a certain point) after 10pm?

 

The 10pm hour has always been more lenient in what's allowed to be said/shown. I don't watch many network shows so I don't know if they've just now added certain words that won't get you a fine by the FCC  for the original basic broadcast networks that aren't cable. I like 'real talk' in my shows when it fits and isn't gratuitous, but now I'm just thinking how one of my favorite moments of the episode will probably be ruined in rerun airings on Ion and probably USA depending on the time of airing. I was getting ER'd-out on the POP network before it went to Hulu and its so stupid how things from that show have been edited, for example, they blurred out a dying teenager giving Doug the finger because Doug listened to his mom (the kid was a few weeks away from being 18) and revived him. Are they afraid dying teenagers out there will be corrupted? If you're watching this old (10pm) show from the 90s in 2018, do they expect it to be impressionable kids making up half the viewing audience even if its on during the day . It does take at least me out of a scene to have cuts like that.

 

Now back on topic a bit more... did they mention what actually was going to happen to "Uncle Luke"? No, right?

[atlantaloves]

Hey, it may have been kinda bad, but this episode was 100% better than last weeks.  I sorta liked it. Yeah, what happened to that perv Uncle Luke?

[HunterHunted]

5 hours ago, Cajungirl64 said:

Yikes. I must be the only person who thought this was a moving episode in which ALL the characters were involved... The last scene was sickening. Welcome to America, indeed.

I'm not bothered by the sentiment, but the execution was so flawed that it's hard to focus on the feelings that this was trying to evoke. The Supremacy Clause, with no exaggeration, is something you learn about in your first day in law school. Frankly, it's something NYC police officers learn too because there are millions of foreign nationals and over a hundred diplomatic missions/embassies in the city. If the show has to have Olivia blatantly break the law in order to get to the issue of detention of undocumented minors, then the writing is crappy.

Another way to get at the issue is to have a journalist or activist be sexually assaulted as he or she attempts to shine a light on the issue of detention of undocumented minors. The episode would get the sex crimes hook while also having an adult elucidate the problem. In all honesty, this would probably make a stronger case about the detention of undocumented minors.

What we got was a jurisdictional and narrative mess. Olivia straight up ignored an obvious foster care and Child Protection Services issue when they sent a dozen victims of child rape, who were not keen to go, back to their families. There was no investigation as to why CPS hadn't pulled any of these girls from their families nor was there any investigation about whether it was safe to return the girls to their families of origin. There was no investigation about how Uncle Luke was keeping in contact with his pedophile ring after the ads were pulled from the backpages. There was no investigation about how Gabriella might have been sexually traumatized by being raped, witnessing rapes, or hearing the girls at Uncle Luke's talking about rape. Instead, Olivia arrests a federal employee who was actually empowered by the constitution and federal law to do the exact thing Olivia objected to. Olivia jumps up in court to shout about her concerns when she is not empowered to do so and isn't fined for her obvious contempt of court. Olivia pressures Stone to reach out to his contacts to get Gabriella reunited with her mom and I guess approved as an asylum seeker. Legally and morally nearly everything Olivia did was wrong.

And while I might agree that the conditions in which undocumented minors are held is abhorrent, I can't find my way to liking this episode because it was incompetent at best.

[mommalib]

I loved how Fin shut Carisi and Rollins up when he brought up our ancestors. Any delusions you have about America just look up the history of black people in America.

[wknt3]

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I didn’t think the use of “asshole” was a big deal, and I don’t think that SVU is using “gratuitous profanity”, one line isn’t gratuitous and using some profanity makes the show realistic, I don’t feel like they are using a lot of profanity to appear “edgy” or forcing it down our throats. I thought it was a classic Fin line and one of the best moments of what was an overall shit fest.

I actually thought it was one of the best moments too and I didn't think it was OOC or anything, it just felt like in the old days they would have come up with something a bit more clever. And so far other than wildly varying quality from scene to scene  and ruining Rollins again the only discernable trend this season has been more bad language. Perhaps in retrospect I was overly harsh because I hated the episode so much.
 

Quote

I enjoyed the investigation in the first half a lot, it felt like classic SVU and showed SVU still has the potential to be a good show, but the second half was just downright brutal with its St Olivia worship and political preaching, as well as Puppet Stone. 

I might have to rewatch the beginning, because usually "it showed potential, but didn't live up to it" is my line! I don't think I liked the first half as much as you, but again that could be how much I hated parts of the show influencing my perceptions and recollection of the rest.
 

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

I'm not bothered by the sentiment, but the execution was so flawed that it's hard to focus on the feelings that this was trying to evoke. The Supremacy Clause, with no exaggeration, is something you learn about in your first day in law school. Frankly, it's something NYC police officers learn too because there are millions of foreign nationals and over a hundred diplomatic missions/embassies in the city. If the show has to have Olivia blatantly break the law in order to get to the issue of detention of undocumented minors, then the writing is crappy.

Another way to get at the issue is to have a journalist or activist be sexually assaulted as he or she attempts to shine a light on the issue of detention of undocumented minors. The episode would get the sex crimes hook while also having an adult elucidate the problem. In all honesty, this would probably make a stronger case about the detention of undocumented minors.

What we got was a jurisdictional and narrative mess. Olivia straight up ignored an obvious foster care and Child Protection Services issue when they sent a dozen victims of child rape, who were not keen to go, back to their families. There was no investigation as to why CPS hadn't pulled any of these girls from their families nor was there any investigation about whether it was safe to return the girls to their families of origin. There was no investigation about how Uncle Luke was keeping in contact with his pedophile ring after the ads were pulled from the backpages. There was no investigation about how Gabriella might have been sexually traumatized by being raped, witnessing rapes, or hearing the girls at Uncle Luke's talking about rape. Instead, Olivia arrests a federal employee who was actually empowered by the constitution and federal law to do the exact thing Olivia objected to. Olivia jumps up in court to shout about her concerns when she is not empowered to do so and isn't fined for her obvious contempt of court. Olivia pressures Stone to reach out to his contacts to get Gabriella reunited with her mom and I guess approved as an asylum seeker. Legally and morally nearly everything Olivia did was wrong.

And while I might agree that the conditions in which undocumented minors are held is abhorrent, I can't find my way to liking this episode because it was incompetent at best.

Yes! I completely agree with what they were trying to say, but I hated that they said it so poorly. How could the writers take a shot at such a huge target and miss completely? In the words of Anita Van Buren "one of you needs to spend some more time at the range"! We're not professional writers, but those of us in this forum have come up with at least half a dozen better more compelling ways to tell the story and get the message across. Instead they completely shattered the suspension of disbelief even for viewers like myself who believe that policies they were criticizing are a moral abomination. And they basically undid all the work they did last season by reverting back to making Benson a moral authority above the law.

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, dttruman said:

Are all these unbelievable skewed sequence of events suppose to be benefiting the TV show or is it in reality spotlighting Mariska Haritay's foundation and her political and social agendas

Oh, Mariska is certianly using SVU as a tool to promote herself and her foundation, and to spout her views on hot button issues. Opening with Jesse reading the children’s book that was written by Mariska’s husband was truly pathetic self promotion. This show can definitely still be good, the first half last night showed that, the actual case felt like a classic golden era SVU case, had it just stuck to the sex trafficking storyline it would’ve been a very good episode, but instead Mariska had to get on her soapbox and make the second half a political shit fest. I feel like there is a battle for creative control between Mariska and the writers and as a result we get an uneven, mixed show. 

[dttruman]

2 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

What we got was a jurisdictional and narrative mess. Olivia straight up ignored an obvious foster care and Child Protection Services issue when they sent a dozen victims of child rape, who were not keen to go, back to their families. There was no investigation as to why CPS hadn't pulled any of these girls from their families nor was there any investigation about whether it was safe to return the girls to their families of origin. There was no investigation about how Uncle Luke was keeping in contact with his pedophile ring after the ads were pulled from the backpages. There was no investigation about how Gabriella might have been sexually traumatized by being raped, witnessing rapes, or hearing the girls at Uncle Luke's talking about rape. Instead, Olivia arrests a federal employee who was actually empowered by the constitution and federal law to do the exact thing Olivia objected to. Olivia jumps up in court to shout about her concerns when she is not empowered to do so and isn't fined for her obvious contempt of court. Olivia pressures Stone to reach out to his contacts to get Gabriella reunited with her mom and I guess approved as an asylum seeker. Legally and morally nearly everything Olivia did was wrong.

Does anyone think that NBC will come up with a new category to describe SVU and Benson's whimsical actions? My vote is for "fantasy drama".

5 hours ago, atlantaloves said:

Yeah, what happened to that perv Uncle Luke?

They left a few things unanswered.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

6 hours ago, mommalib said:

I loved how Fin shut Carisi and Rollins up when he brought up our ancestors. Any delusions you have about America just look up the history of black people in America.

That was great.

[cfinboston]

G-d help me but the entire ridiculous exchange between Rollins and Gabriela reminded me of 911. "Do you have cheeeldren Oleeeevia" became "Do you have a baby in there Meees Amanda? Do you want a boy or girl?"

And was it just me or was the kid playing Jesse way younger than three?

Also, get the fucking glurge off SVU. Stone telling the starfish story but with sea turtle hatchlings. Just...no.

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, shksabelle said:

How on earth did Dick Wolf let her hijack this show so totally?

This is just the conspiracy theorist in me speaking, but I think when Hargitay reduced the cast to bare minimum. It allowed the show to come in under budget, which made Wolf happy and NBC happy. I also think the only one getting a decent pay check is probably Mariska Hargitay.

[Aethera]

Guys, dial the over-the-top rhetoric down to 11, please.

[SarahPrtr]

On 10/6/2018 at 1:55 AM, dttruman said:

I would say most of us agree that it starts out as a good episode, but for some reason it segways off to a subplot, that soon becomes the main premise of the episode. I believe all of us here loved the old episodes, back when the main premise was the coverage of the investigation of "Special victims" crimes and maybe also the prosecution of the accused.

But would you say over the years, the premise has changed where they are now focused on the personal lives of the unit and the investigation of the crimes has become secondary? Would you also say that some of the realism has been lost also, along with most of the cast? They are now down to 3 detectives and a Lieutenant who runs it, but seems to spend a lot of time in the field investigating and also telling the ADA who (and how) to prosecute.

The first two seasons were great.  The third began to wane a bit, but there were still good episodes here and there.  Same with season 4.  After that, it was more meh, and the latest few seasons, well... you know...

 

Even though there were some personal episodes focusing on one particular character, they were still good.  Like 'Legacy' from season 2, which gave us some insight into Munch.  Well, I've always liked Munch, so I may be biased, but the stories actually did involve Special Victims back in those days.

[MorbidPet]

On 2018-10-05 at 4:18 PM, Cajungirl64 said:

Yikes. I must be the only person who thought this was a moving episode in which ALL the characters were involved... The last scene was sickening. Welcome to America, indeed.

Not the only one. I thought this was the best episode in a few seasons frankly. Like you wrote - it had all the characters involved and contributing in some way. I didn't even have something bad to say about Olivia in this episode. Yes she had an outburst in court but I'd do that too. Children in chages are sickening for sure. It's made international headlines. The state of the world today is rather sickening :( 

And I don't mind them actually spending some time on Amanda's pregnancy storyline. She almost died while giving birth to Jesse but that they left on the cutting room floor. With all that Benoah they put us through we deserve some payback. Thank you show, especially from us Amanda/Kelli fans. 

[ChristiKRN]

I still can't get over this episode.  I've been trying to figure out what bothered me the most about the episode but there are so many issues.

SVU has always done "ripped from the headline"-based storylines; that's not the problem.  The problem was that there technically wasn't a crime being committed by holding people illegally entering the country in these detention centers.  It may be morally wrong to separate the kids from their parents and being fenced in, but technically not a crime (that is just an opinion; I don't want to start a political debate), so why was SVU spending so much time on this issue?  If they had spun it off to the detained people being sexually assaulted, then they would have had a reason to be involved but not for the reason they were. 

My biggest issue was Benson's reactions as a lieutenant/ leader of an elite detective unit.  Everything from arresting the federal agent for kidnapping to forcing Stone to attempt to prosecute something legal to her outburst in open court.  I would expect it from Rollins but not the person in charge.  It showed that her emotions overrule her logic, and perspective,  not a good quality for the boss.  It would have been fine if she expressed her dismay and disgust to someone privately but not how she handled it.  I hope there is some fallout somewhere down the road with Dodds Sr.; his running tab on her missteps has got to be getting pretty lengthy. 

Jack McCoy better intervene with Stone ASAP.  He needs to use Barba as an example of what not to do. He's derailing at a significantly faster rate than Barba did. 

Too much time spent on Rollins' pregnancy already this season.  Per Dr. Al, if she got knocked up on July 4th, then that means she is only about 3 months along; she looks like she is about 6-7 months along.  It's going to be a long pregnancy.  Should she even be allowed out from the squad room if she's pregnant? I sincerely hope Dr. Al gets accused of something and she tries to cover something up, leading to her long-overdue suspension or firing. 

I'm not impressed at all so far this season.  The only bright side is seeing more of Fin and Carisi, who have managed to be the only ones keeping a level head. 

[Iguessnot]

This episode was just unbelievable. Sledgehammer preaching throughout. I find the separation of children who are handed over to the coffers of the highest political bidder to be heinous, but I detested this episode. Every show is a public service announcement. 

Did anyone else think the federal agent assaulted the child, based on how she was carrying on? Well it seems he didn't do anything, but Mariska lost her focus, so the sex crime angle and Uncle Luke got completely overlooked. 

Why was the detained agent sitting with the spectators instead of being at the table with the lawyer?

[dttruman]

2 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

Did anyone else think the federal agent assaulted the child, based on how she was carrying on? Well it seems he didn't do anything, but Mariska lost her focus, so the sex crime angle and Uncle Luke got completely overlooked. 

I thought this was specifically written that way to create the controversy that they wanted to push their agenda . I think according to protocol, a female agent (or at most a male and female agents), who spoke Spanish would come to make it a lot less stressful for the child.

I wonder how Hargitay would react if the writers presented this premise to her for an episode. An illegal alien with a violent past (numerous convictions for murder and rape and released many time in San Francisco) rapes and murders Noah and his babysitter. Would Benson be championing the rights of this person?

[dttruman]

9 hours ago, MorbidPet said:

it had all the characters involved and contributing in some way. I didn't even have something bad to say about Olivia in this episode. Yes she had an outburst in court but I'd do that too.

It completely lacked realism. Her superior (Dodds) would have had her relieved of duty and had the federal agent released immediately. There never would have been a court hearing and Hargitay never would have got to "ham it up" with her self serving protest as Benson in the courtroom.

Edited October 7, 2018 by dttruman

[Xeliou66]

A squad leader cannot let their emotions dictate their decision making, and that’s what Benson does. She is clearly unfit to be a squad leader, she uses her position to push an agenda, she micromanages her detectives and she generally behaves like an unprofessional, unethical, unstable shithead.

They’ve convieniently forgotten the existence of both Dodds and McCoy, because they would call them out on some of the crap they are pulling, Dodds would be livid at Benson for arresting an agent for doing his job and even more so at Benson’s courtroom meltdown, and McCoy wouldn’t let Stone defend an arrest with no merit and would tell him to tell the SVU’s detectives to not bring the DA’s office cases that they couldn’t win.

The only good part of this season has been Fin and Carisi, they are awesome and I want more of them working cases together. The only good part of Rollins being pregnant is that she will be out for a few episodes, hopefully as a result we will get more of Fin and Carisi working cases together. Other than them, this season has been a regression from season 19 so far, not as bad as 18 though. 

[cfinboston]

What got me too was there was no mention at all of actual sex crimes that occur at the border as far as sex trafficking. Like it or not, part of why separation occurs and always has is because of adults crossing the border with kids that are not theirs. Also that the story completely derailed away from the pimp, in other words the actual crime that was happening.