S02.E02: unMoored

[Bort]

Quote

Thunderbird contacts a mutant lawyer who recruited him to the Underground years ago, hoping she can help him find the Inner Circle. Lauren and Andy have a shared dream, which distracts Andy from his training and prompts Reeva to consider cutting her losses with him, which, in turn, makes Andy second-guess his separation from his sister. Meanwhile, Reed must keep a huge secret from the group and Jace picks up the mutants' trail again

Airdate: Tuesday, October 2, 2018

[blackwing]

Aargh... "Jace".  So he's not gone after all.  Too bad.

[SimoneS]

I am not enjoying the group being split up at all. I know they are doing it for the drama and tension, but would prefer that our people just take on Reeva and those annoying CGI triplets. Lorna and the baby should be with Marco. Andy should with Lauren and his parents. 

I looking forward to finding out exactly what is Reed's power. I don't understand why he hasn't told John, Blink, or Marco to get their help. I do get why he has not told his wife or Lauren. 

Btw, I don't care that Esme has developed a small conscience.  I hate those CGI triplets. Not sure what I think about Jace's return. If he sticks his nose back in, Reeva is going to kill him good and dead.

Edited October 3, 2018 by SimoneS

[JasmineFlower]

Caitlin is so annoying with this "my son was taken from me" nonsense when literally everyone, including her, knows that he left on his own. I don't like her character anyway, but this is making her that much worse to take. I saw last week people loving her and I never know why if they are just looking at the character. I have serious trouble believing that all these Amy Acker fans would like this character at all played by another actress.

Not only does Andy's hair look a hot mess, I find it very distracting. He's looking as washed out as humanly possibly. Put him in front of a white wall and I dare you to find him.

I feel like this show is under the impression that everyone loves Andy or he's a fan favorite or some such nonsense. Are we supposed to care if he dies at the hands of Reeva? They miscalculated on that one.

Does anyone like the triplets? The amount of screen time they get is genuinely perplexing.

[bow]

“Because a face like yours deserves better than a baseball bat.” Bad writing.

Someone has definitely talked to Jamie Chung about her acting. I’m very thankful for that person.

“Lizard of Oz.” Again, bad writing.

Grace is a mutant and still alive right?

Reed’s powers are awesome. Why is he fighting so much?

 

This episode is actually pretty good. I don’t have as much to say. The preview was awesome. Part of me hopes he kills them all.

[Proteus]

I liked this episode. Amy Acker & Stephen Moyer were good in their fight scene.

I am interested in seeing what Reeds abilities actually are.

Caitlin & Marcos had serious vibes at the end.

I love the Frost sisters. I think Skyler Samuels in doing a great job playing them. I like that they are now starting to get more distinct.

I hope Sage isn't totally with Reeva now.

[Sakura12]

Why is Reed hiding being a mutant when he's surrounded by mutants including his daughter? Is is just for stupid drama?

I'm glad Andy wised up and told Reeva the truth. He lives with multiple telepaths. I still like the Polaris and Andy friendship. She gained a teenager along with a newborn. I hope Polaris gets more to do then take care of the baby. Unless your show is just about a family, babies and shows don't mix well. 

I like Amy Acker from Angel and Person of Interest, but Caitlin is annoying. If Andy wanted to stay with you he would've. No one forced him to go anywhere. 

I guess we were supposed to see some humanity in Reeva when she was sad about killing a 15 year old. However leaders that go around killing their own people because they don't agree with everything, don't strike me as the smartest leaders. How is anyone going to follow them when they are all dead. 

[joanne3482]

17 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I hope Polaris gets more to do then take care of the baby. Unless your show is just about a family, babies and shows don't mix well. 

This is one of the areas I don't know what they're going to do about it. They can't kill the baby off (although maybe that's the plan and how Polaris and Marcos get reunited or it pushes Polaris into total evil realm and how they get divided).  They can't have Polaris dragging her around with them underground.  They can't (I hope) rapidly age the baby so she's a child.  

[nilyank]

3 hours ago, joanne3482 said:

This is one of the areas I don't know what they're going to do about it. They can't kill the baby off (although maybe that's the plan and how Polaris and Marcos get reunited or it pushes Polaris into total evil realm and how they get divided).  They can't have Polaris dragging her around with them underground.  They can't (I hope) rapidly age the baby so she's a child.  

If only they could ship the baby off to her grandfather.  Honestly,  I am curious where Magneto in this universe. 

[sjohnson]

Nobody sighted in North Carolina attacking the Humanity Today summit and assassinating a Senator (and the real target, Campbell,) is thought to be dead in a mysterious explosion in Atlanta. The catastrophe was in North Carolina, if you believe killing a Senator is unforgivable. But the red state team thinks the Hounds/Hound pair getting killed was unforgivable, just like killing guards to rescue the group at Trask was unforgivable, so they talk about "Atlanta."

It seems we are to think the Hound program never existed and nobody saved anyone by stopping it. Lauren’s idea that she took the Hounds away from their families borders on the offensive, like her forgetting Cristina’s parents were killed two days before. A six month time jump so they can gloss over the absurdity of their comeback still takes a toll on the internal coherence of the story.

Lauren would rather throw herself off a building to avoid a Fate Worse Than Death. Of course Andy’s innate vileness won’t let him see what’s wrong with raping his sister. To emphasize the point that Andy is contemptible, we get to laugh at him running into a wall....twice. Good times!

Reeva knows the Struckers are like a set of dueling pistols: The complete set is much much more valuable. And it’s still true that Strucker mutation is dominant, and even an otherwise useless Andy can breed soldiers. And it’s especially true that killing your allies is no way to win loyalty. The subplot about killing Andy was about blackening Reeva’s character at the expense of making the character stupid.  And about Andy telling the Inner Circle where the DC Mutant Underground is. Even a monster like Reeva can feign humanity when given a treat like that. There was by the no way no training for the whole six months because Andy is a minor character who doesn't exist when off screen, just like Bulk and Fade.

The chances that a lawyer cured John’s drug addiction by chaining him to a bed range from zero to none, as the cliche has it. Dreamer no doubt helped him, except the show is building up Blink, so Dreamer’s disappeared from his biography. Bathroom sex because they imagine him chained to a bed? Oh, yeah, they’re really into Blink. John is of course an ineffective leader. In one way it’s not his fault, because the Mutant Underground strategy of keeping your head down and occasionally serving up the corpse of a militant is doomed to failure. Attrition by the remorseless grind of uncontrolled events guarantees it. 

Marcos had a lovely moment but the truth still is that he ditched Lorna over politics. Campbell's life was more important than his love. 

"Suppress and repress! That's the Strucker way!" Oh, yes. And it's not just Reed, it's Lauren too. What does it mean to her when Andy comes home? How could Reed and Caitlin possibly have any idea? Worse, the audience. 

[CooperTV]

18 hours ago, bow said:

Reed’s powers are awesome. Why is he fighting so much?

I think he can barely control them at the moment. Plus, he's also being strong and silent type that struggles with family drama. It's hard for him to open up, it seems.

Speaking of which, last episode Lorna had "mental block" during the labour. This episode Andy had mental block. Maybe Reed would be the next?

[tennisgurl]

I hope that Lorna and Andy get back with the rest of the group soon. Them being separated does add extra angst, but they work best working off other characters, especially Andy. I like Andy and Lorna in a kind of mentor/mentee relationship, but Andy on his own is just an angsty emo teen with super powers. I like Lauren better anyway. 

Caitlin just needs to deal with that fact that Andy skipped out. I get that it sucks, but its getting ridiculous how in denial she is about him making the choice to go off with the new Hellfire Club people. I do like her when she goes on missions, and when she hangs out with Marco. She and Marco are always really great together. They dont have romantic chemistry that I've ever seen, but they do have good friend chemistry. 

Killing anyone who even mildly disagrees with you probably isnt the best way to create a conducive working environment, Reeva. And her murder tendencies are even more questionable when she works with telepaths. 

Liked getting to know more about John (and, also, looking good!) and his backstory, and he and Clarice were quite cute together. I think a lot of the actors have grown into their roles a lot more, especially this season as opposed to last season.  

[Lantern7]

Back to "X-Men Without X-Men." Right now, it just feels like building toward a far bigger moment, with a few sweet moments sprinkled in . . . like Marco shining the Love Signal for Lorna and her kid. Did the kid get a name yet?

Can't take Andy seriously. Awesome powers, not much else development. The bit where he and his sister are having some sort of prophetic dream is weird, though. Or maybe they know exactly where their plot will go.

Disintegration touch for Reed? Not bad. And with all the shit his father came gave him, I can imagine all that power backed up and slowly killing him, to the point where it will be epic when the power is released. Well, it should be epic. I like The Gifted, but I'd have to rank it average at best, without the bugfuckery done by Legends of Tomorrow and Gotham. And The Flash will take higher priority for me next week.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Lantern7

[Perfect Xero]

7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

 Caitlin just needs to deal with that fact that Andy skipped out. I get that it sucks, but its getting ridiculous how in denial she is about him making the choice to go off with the new Hellfire Club people.

I disagree here, Andy's a 15 year old being manipulated by adults (three of whom are telepaths, and another who was placed into a leader/mentor role over him) into joining a terrorist group.

Personally I'm much more annoyed by Reed just shrugging his shoulders at Caitlin like she's some sort of hysterical woman and and saying that his high school Freshman/Sophomore aged son made a choice and they might as well not bother trying to look for him or help him.

I can't imagine a scenario where a 15 year old girl was convinced to run out on her family by a group of adult men they barely know of questionable (at best) morality and it being met with the rather blase, "well she made a choice," reaction from her father unless the entire point of it was to show what a crappy, unfit father he is.

But in the case of Andy his father is just giving up on his youngest child but we're, apparently, supposed to view Reed as sympathetic for it.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Perfect Xero

[sjohnson]

4 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

I disagree here, Andy's a 15 year old being manipulated by adults (three of whom are telepaths, and another who was placed into a leader/mentor role over him) into joining a terrorist group.

Personally I'm much more annoyed by Reed just shrugging his shoulders at Caitlin like she's some sort of hysterical woman and and saying that his high school Freshman/Sophomore aged son made a choice and they might as well not bother trying to look for him or help him.

I can't imagine a scenario where a 15 year old girl was convinced to run out on her family by a group of adult men they barely know of questionable (at best) morality and it being met with the rather blase, "well she made a choice," reaction from her father unless the entire point of it was to show what a crappy, unfit father he is.

But in the case of Andy his father is just giving up on his youngest child but we're, apparently, supposed to view Reed as sympathetic for it.

Reed rejects Andy for the same reason Marcos rejects Lorna: Politics. Reed and Marcos are team red state, so when they insist their supposed loved ones do things their way, they're right and good. Also, the writers know exactly what they're doing with Andy/Lauren, which is a plausible deniability version of the Lannisters where of course it's simply rape, because this is modern times. As the perfect hero he must reject Andy. Caitlin is portrayed as less rational. I suppose they think agency for so many female characters makes this just a personal idiosyncrasy rather than because mother's are irrational about their sons.

[Perfect Xero]

While I agree that there's a level of sexual/incest metaphor with the way the show depicts the Stucker kids powers. I'm pretty dubious about treating something that's a metaphor as completely 1 for 1 literal in how we view a character.

Even if we do treat it like "rape" for story purposes, it's still something that happened in a dream, where people very often do things they'd never even think of doing while awake, and Andy is clearly upset/disturbed when he wakes up and most of the people around Andy are pretty clearly depicted as using and manipulating him.

Like I said, if the roles of Andy/Lauren were swapped I think the Reed would clearly be the bad parent here, the only reason he's not viewed as a completely wrong ass on the show is that society tends to treat any boy, no matter how young, who has hit his growth spurt as no longer being a vulnerable child in need of protection from being used/manipulated by adults, especially when those adults are attractive women.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Perfect Xero

[Katsullivan]

On 26/09/2018 at 11:43 AM, sjohnson said:

*The blonde woman whose hair slo-mo blows in a wind from nowhere while lit in a golden haze is such a cliche for sexy that it’s been used as a visual joke. Thus when Andy clenches her hand and won’t let it go, visually it is rape. Rape adjacent at least.

 

On 28/09/2018 at 12:21 PM, sjohnson said:

The vision tells us he wants to rape his sister, which is pretty evil

7 hours ago, sjohnson said:

Also, the writers know exactly what they're doing with Andy/Lauren, which is a plausible deniability version of the Lannisters where of course it's simply rape, because this is modern times.

????

My sides are literally splitting with laughter as I type this but is there... maybe... something you'd like to say about Andy and Lauren's relationship, maybe? ????

[sjohnson]

Perfect Xero I rather agree with you about Reed being hard-hearted if I relate what he's doing to real life situations. And I agree the show doesn't think Reed's in the wrong.  But I don't think it's because the show would have us believe Andy doesn't need protection. The show clearly wants us to see Andy as weak and naive. But Andy's on team blue state, which is like being a revolutionary and that is unforgivable, despicable, terrifying, even as it is weak and naive. The thing is, lots of people value "strength," as in being a winner, (Andy is the loser on the show,) and cunning, and see weak and naive as contemptible. That's sort of contradictory, but political demonization works that way in real life. The show wants us to enjoy the affirmation of rightness (aka the status quo) when in the end Andy and his cohorts in evil are killed. Evangeline Whedon was no more supposed to be seen as hard-hearted than Reed when she suggested killing Lorna and Andy. The show isn't really interested in Andy which is why the character isn't really written and doesn't exist off screen. The thing is, even in its own terms, Lauren is a weak character when she has no genuine choices to make. They've already written themselves into a corner where if she does much of anything but kick him to the curb, she is an idiot like Caitlin. At this point she can only want him back if she wants to be Fenris. But that is not supported by anything on screen, except a lonely line of dialogue last season. 

At the end of the season, Polaris and Marcos and Andy made huge choices in response to the failure of the Mutant Underground, saving everyone by stopping Campbell. By jumping ahead six months to cover up the failure of the Mutant Underground, team red state has no challenges to resolve, except to punish the traitors. Polaris has no reason to be where she is either. 

Katsullivan Laughter is a useful defense mechanism. It is not a thought, much less an argument. If The Gifted lasts long enough to attract widespread notice, don't be surprised at the porn parody. But, supposing your non-interpretation of what's on-screen, narrowing focus to the literal reading of some of the dialogue is somehow correct, then you must have some understanding of what's happening. Thus when Lauren bursts out about killing fifteen people and slams Reed for not thinking about what Andy's return would mean for her? What obvious thing is Reed overlooking about Andy's return will make that worse?

[HunterHunted]

On 10/3/2018 at 8:43 AM, Sakura12 said:

Why is Reed hiding being a mutant when he's surrounded by mutants including his daughter? Is is just for stupid drama?

It's beyond stupid especially because Reed has recent personal experience where a mutant who was not in control of his or her gifts put all of their lives in danger.  It's happened with Andy. It's happened with Blink. It even happened in this episode when the girl who wanted to find her sister let her telekinesis get out of control. Literally he needs to tell someone. I actually suspect that he's keeping silent about it because the person he's actually closest to is Lorna. I think he doesn't want to burden Lauren. Caitlin and her pal, Marcos, are on their single-minded dangerous search mission. John is in charge of everything and this might be too big a burden because he's barely in control now. Reed actually needs to tell Blink so that she and he can hatch a plan to portal him somewhere remote while gets a handle on his powers. This might actually be good at snapping the Underground out of their slightly self-pitying routine.

On 10/3/2018 at 8:43 AM, Sakura12 said:

I like Amy Acker from Angel and Person of Interest, but Caitlin is annoying. If Andy wanted to stay with you he would've. No one forced him to go anywhere.

20 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Caitlin just needs to deal with that fact that Andy skipped out. I get that it sucks, but its getting ridiculous how in denial she is about him making the choice to go off with the new Hellfire Club people. I do like her when she goes on missions, and when she hangs out with Marco. She and Marco are always really great together. They dont have romantic chemistry that I've ever seen, but they do have good friend chemistry. 

 

Andy is 15, bullied for years, on the run for however long they were on the run for and has destructo-kinesis (I'm not calling it telekinesis because that implies that he's capable of more precision; he's not). It didn't take that much manipulation to "turn" him. No one stole or kidnapped him. He's been a neon sign advertising that he was sick of this defensive shit since day one. The irony being that he's very much like Caitlin in that respect. Reed has been advocating that Andy will come back if he wants to, while Caitlin has taken an active role in trying to find him. This the exact same reason that Andy left; he wanted to take a more active role in fighting for mutants.

Quote

I guess we were supposed to see some humanity in Reeva when she was sad about killing a 15 year old. However leaders that go around killing their own people because they don't agree with everything, don't strike me as the smartest leaders. How is anyone going to follow them when they are all dead. 

20 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Killing anyone who even mildly disagrees with you probably isnt the best way to create a conducive working environment, Reeva. And her murder tendencies are even more questionable when she works with telepaths. 

 

Poor poor Reeva. How hard must it be to murder anyone who offers up even the slightest disagreement with you. #HaveYouHuggedAPowerMadSerialKillerToday

On 10/3/2018 at 1:12 PM, sjohnson said:

"Suppress, repress! That's the Strucker way!"

(Meanwhile on the other side of DC, Andy is singing)

There's only one thing for me to say

Let it go, let it go
Can't hold it back anymore
Let it go, let it go
Turn away and slam the door
I don't care what they're going to say
Let my powers rage on
The deaths never bothered me anyway

Let it go, let it go
Can't hold it back anymore
Let it go, let it go
Turn away and slam the door

Let it go (go, go, go go, go go, go go, go, go, go go)

Let it go

Let it go

Let it go

It's funny how some distance makes everything seem small
And the fears that once controlled me can't get to me at all
It's time to see what I can do
To test the limits and break through
No right, no wrong, no rules for me
I'm free

Let it go, let it go
I am one with the powers inside of me
Let it go, let it go
You'll never see me cry
Here I stand and here I stay
I'll show you the Fenris way

[stealinghome]

Quote

Like I said, if the roles of Andy/Lauren were swapped I think the Reed would clearly be the bad parent here, the only reason he's not viewed as a completely wrong ass on the show is that society tends to treat any boy, no matter how young, who has hit his growth spurt as no longer being a vulnerable child in need of protection from being used/manipulated by adults, especially when those adults are attractive women.

ITA, and I don't understand why the show just doesn't add that 10% of nuance to what Caitlin is saying. I really don't understand why they can't just have her say "Andy is young, vulnerable, and frankly a total moron, and I'm deathly afraid that he is going to be manipulated into doing something stupid and either get himself killed or kill a whole bunch of people and be unable to live with himself for what he's done." Then we could argue about whether she's overly infantilizing Andy or not, but it doesn't sound like she doesn't understand that Andy made a choice here.

(Well, actually, I do think I know the reason why that's not the line: either the writers are just not that good, or they realize that Reed would officially become the World's Worst Father if he didn't chase after Andy alongside Caitlin if that's her case. BUT STILL.)

[Zanne]

On 10/3/2018 at 7:04 AM, joanne3482 said:

This is one of the areas I don't know what they're going to do about it. They can't kill the baby off (although maybe that's the plan and how Polaris and Marcos get reunited or it pushes Polaris into total evil realm and how they get divided).  They can't have Polaris dragging her around with them underground.  They can't (I hope) rapidly age the baby so she's a child.  

The bad mutants will run off with the baby (because that's who they secretly wanted all along) and leave Polaris behind for some reason or another, so Polaris will have to join up with the good mutants to find her kidnapped baby. Then the kid can show up in in the final season, conveniently aged, and save the day.

[thuganomics85]

That awkward family moment when it is blatant that each parent has their own favorite child.  The Struckers totally need family therapy if/once all of this is solved.

Oh, hey, Jace Turner is back.  I wonder how they're going to fit him in this season.

I guess Esme suddenly growing a conscious is setting her breaking away from the other Frost sisters, and maybe even killing them (so the show can save on the budget, since it probably needs it judging from the ratings!)

I really hope they start doing more with Lorna besides being stuck in a room with her baby or worse: having to serve as a mentor/soundboard for freaking Andy.

Evangeline is a dick for putting Atlanta all on John.  There's a lot of blame to go around, lady.  Plus, no one is perfect.  Even the much reveled Professor Xavier screwed the pooch from time to time.

[JonasArm]

I get the reaction of both parents. Let's not forget they have been searching for over 6 months so Reed has realised that their life had not stopped and that they had to take care of themselves too. Caitlin is just not taking the words of her son at face-value and realises that he not completly aware of his choice (which is true seeing how close he was to be attacked by his allies).

 

I mostly wonder if Reed can bond with his children. The result could be intersting and open the door to new possibilities.

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Evangeline is a dick for putting Atlanta all on John.  There's a lot of blame to go around, lady.  Plus, no one is perfect.  Even the much reveled Professor Xavier screwed the pooch from time to time.

Agreed.

[sjohnson]

19 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

(Meanwhile on the other side of DC, Andy is singing)

There's only one thing for me to say

Let it go, let it go
Can't hold it back anymore
Let it go, let it go
Turn away and slam the door
I don't care what they're going to say
Let my powers rage on
The deaths never bothered me anyway

Let it go, let it go
Can't hold it back anymore
Let it go, let it go
Turn away and slam the door

Let it go (go, go, go go, go go, go go, go, go, go go)

Let it go

Let it go

Let it go

It's funny how some distance makes everything seem small
And the fears that once controlled me can't get to me at all
It's time to see what I can do
To test the limits and break through
No right, no wrong, no rules for me
I'm free

Let it go, let it go
I am one with the powers inside of me
Let it go, let it go
You'll never see me cry
Here I stand and here I stay
I'll show you the Fenris way

Sometimes I can't tell how literally to read comments, without tone of voice or body language to help. Also, I don't know if the lyrics are changed. But I'm pretty sure if Andy could tear apart concrete and steel, then he could tear flesh and bone. The fact that Andy has only pushed people tells us who he is, and it's not someone letting go. The writing seems to be more of the kind that sees vicarious wish-fulfillment figures emoting as the payoff to a scene. I'm not sure the writers don't just think of Andy as a pussy who can't do what it takes. But then, the real explanation may be that they don't actually think of Andy as anything but a foil.

[blackwing]

Visually I thought this episode was pretty weak.  This is a comic book show, I want more use of powers that look cool on TV.  On this show, that's Polaris, Eclipse, Lauren and Blink.  Something with lots of light and colours.  Seems like they really skimped on the powers this time.  Polaris used her powers to.... turn on a light switch.  And Marcos used his powers to make the Northern Lights, which looked like something a junior high school student created on a computer during art class.  I don't find Andy's powers that visually interesting, he is just destroying stuff.  If there was some kind of light effect with it (like the way Jean Grey's telekinesis was always depicted as some kind of pinkish force in comic books, especially during the 90s when she was in the ugly orange and blue uniform with the headgear), his powers would seem a lot cooler to me.

It doesn't matter to me that Andy is 15.  I don't see him as being manipulated by Polaris and the Frosts and Reeva at all.  At 15 he is not a little kid.  He can make his own choices.  For most people those choices are guided by parents.  But he feels like his parents aren't making the right choice so yes, I agree with Reed that he voluntarily left.

I do think the show makes a point to tell us that Lauren is Reed's favourite child and that Andy is Caitlin's.  But I don't think that necessarily means that Reed doesn't care about Andy.  He just is a loss at what to do, since he feels like Andy left by choice and they can't force him to come back.

[nilyank]

On 10/3/2018 at 10:01 PM, Lantern7 said:

Back to "X-Men Without X-Men." Right now, it just feels like building toward a far bigger moment, with a few sweet moments sprinkled in . . . like Marco shining the Love Signal for Lorna and her kid. Did the kid get a name yet?

 

Dawn.

[Bort]

Please keep the "red state" "blue state" comparisons off the table. If the show doesn't explicitly make political comparisons, it doesn't belong here. No politics.

[JonasArm]

16 hours ago, blackwing said:

It doesn't matter to me that Andy is 15.  I don't see him as being manipulated by Polaris and the Frosts and Reeva at all.  At 15 he is not a little kid.  He can make his own choices.  For most people those choices are guided by parents.  But he feels like his parents aren't making the right choice so yes, I agree with Reed that he voluntarily left.

 

3 hours ago, AngelKitty said:

Hmm, this is a tough one because there are certainly mature 15-year-olds in the world, however, Andy is not one of those. He's been bullied for years and now he finds himself with incredibly destructive powers. Of course he wants to lash out and will go with the ones who will allow that. He needs the guidance of someone who loves him, not someone who will kill him without remorse. 

He made his choice but he is being manipulated as well. He has found a mentor in Polaris the parents couldn't compete against due to not being mutants. Also he was manipulated by the Frost to trust them: they gave the intel about a mutant warehouse back in season 1 and proceeded to guide Andy to safety via telepathy, thus playing both disease and cure.

As AngelKitty notted, being bullied coupled with a great power didn't help. With the good guys, Andy was back to being a victim. The baddies certainly prayed and that vulnerability to recuit him.

[jhlipton]

On 10/3/2018 at 11:12 AM, sjohnson said:

Lauren would rather throw herself off a building to avoid a Fate Worse Than Death.

Lauren's powers would dampen her fall.  That's why Andy didn't see a body when he looked over the side.

[Tachi Rocinante]

Why didn't Lauren just kick Andy in the balls?  Sheesh.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Tachi Rocinante

[slf]

On 10/4/2018 at 4:04 PM, Perfect Xero said:

While I agree that there's a level of sexual/incest metaphor with the way the show depicts the Stucker kids powers. I'm pretty dubious about treating something that's a metaphor as completely 1 for 1 literal in how we view a character.

Even if we do treat it like "rape" for story purposes, it's still something that happened in a dream, where people very often do things they'd never even think of doing while awake, and Andy is clearly upset/disturbed when he wakes up and most of the people around Andy are pretty clearly depicted as using and manipulating him.

Was that the shared dream? I can't remember.

[Efzee]

On 8-10-2018 at 6:34 AM, jhlipton said:

Lauren's powers would dampen her fall.  That's why Andy didn't see a body when he looked over the side.

I figured Blink opened a portal underneath Lauren and she fell through and landed somewhere safely. There's no way Lauren could have fallen all the way down or dampened somewhere along the way and just disappeared in the second(s?) it took Andy to look over the side.

[Perfect Xero]

On 10/8/2018 at 12:34 AM, jhlipton said:

Lauren's powers would dampen her fall.  That's why Andy didn't see a body when he looked over the side.

 

36 minutes ago, Efzee said:

I figured Blink opened a portal underneath Lauren and she fell through and landed somewhere safely. There's no way Lauren could have fallen all the way down or dampened somewhere along the way and just disappeared in the second(s?) it took Andy to look over the side.

It was a dream, she doesn't need anyone to save her or even to save herself. She either vanished because she woke up or simply because things in dreams generally don't make sense anyway.

[Lady Calypso]

I just got around to watching this episode.

I think I did feel some sympathy for Andy here. He is still a 15 year old kid who is in way over his head. He chose to take a more active role in things, but it doesn't mean that he's aware of the dangers around him. Look at how willing Reeva was to kill him if he wasn't on their side. So, in that regard, Andy does need his family to help protect him and help him realize that there's a better way than running away and going rogue.

However, I'm not really on Caitlin's side in this whole thing. She believes that Andy was taken, but he wasn't. I believe that he had his eyes fully open to make a conscious choice. However, Caitlin also made a good point about how Reed would have fought to get Lauren back, which I believe is true. So I can kind of see the sides here. Andy's lucky to have Lorna looking out for him at the moment, but he's still very young and very immature, so he doesn't fully realize the side he's working on is not entirely helpful. It's not a bad thing for Caitlin to want to look for Andy but she's being reckless and focusing so much attention on her missing son that she doesn't seem to spend time with her daughter or her husband. But I guess this is reflective on real life, when a parent loses a child and can't deal, except that Andy is alive and they know he's somewhere out there. 

So, Reed having powers and hiding them is super dumb. There's no reason for him to hide them. I hate TV tropes like this. 

So, good thing about Clarice and John: I'm starting to enjoy them as a couple. 

The Frost sisters are...something. I see they're trying to humanize Esme. 

[Katsullivan]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

However, I'm not really on Caitlin's side in this whole thing. She believes that Andy was taken, but he wasn't.

I don't think Caitlin believes her son was "taken" in the physically kidnapped sense but in the emotionally manipulated sense. Which isn't far from the truth. He's still a kid, a minor. What happened to Andy was the equivalent of joining a cult. The only reason why Reed (and the audience) are blase about it is because Andy's a boy. If it was a fourteen-year-old girl that had been "recruited" by a bunch of creepy dudes, with only another man - a stranger barely months ago - left to watch out for her, Caitlin's attitude would be perfectly relatable and Reed would look like the world's worst dad.

It's the weird double standard that misogyny thrives on - where women are infantilised well into adulthood and boys are given the privileges - and responsibilities - of grown men.