S16.E30: Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jeff Bridges, Soledad O'Brien, David Jolly, and Andrew Sullivan

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Doris Kearns Goodwin, Soledad O'Brien, David Jolly, Andrew Sullivan, Jeff Bridges

[Slade347]

Andrew Sullivan is beyond insufferable. I'm amazed Soledad O'Brien was able to keep her composure as well as she did having to deal with that asshole sitting next to her.

[cali1981]

5 minutes ago, Slade347 said:

Andrew Sullivan is beyond insufferable. I'm amazed Soledad O'Brien was able to keep her composure as well as she did having to deal with that asshole sitting next to her.

Completely agree.  Andrew does this every time he is on the show.  He tries to dominate the conversation because he is, in his own mind, the fount of all wisdom.  It's bad TV and a complete turnoff.

[izabella]

I love that Soledad kept breaking into his strawman to tell him that none of the stuff he was going on about actually happened. 

[scrb]

Sullivan is saying it doesn’t matter if it happened because I was all He way back in high school.

There are polls showing over 50% of Republicans think his.

It doesn’t matter because if Kav pays the price because it would make all white men vulnerable to being punished for their antics.

David Jolly pointed out that he didn’t sexually assault women in high school.

Then Sullivan kept going on about how one accusation can’t be enough but then references the gang rape accusations, o he can’t make up his mind.

[GHScorpiosRule]

7 hours ago, Slade347 said:

Andrew Sullivan is beyond insufferable. I'm amazed Soledad O'Brien was able to keep her composure as well as she did having to deal with that asshole sitting next to her.

I know! I kept yelling STFU! STFU! at not only the shit he was spewing about the poor poor white men but his assholery toward Soledad. And then his sarcastic “Can I FINISH?” as if he hadn’t been interrupting her!?????

6 hours ago, izabella said:

I love that Soledad kept breaking into his strawman to tell him that none of the stuff he was going on about actually happened. 

Same here. Calling his whatever that the questioning of Kavanaugh was a war on all white men, “Such Bullshit.” And the “Carry on” as she refuted every single word. 

The worst was the canard about Kavanaugh being called or labeled a gang rapist. It was fucking Lindsay Graham who accused those questioning Kavanaugh treating him as if he was a gang rapist. Asshole can’t even get his facts straight when he’s bloviating like Chicken Little.

And I just ???? when he said that the Senate should have questioned him on his unsuitability instead of things from high school that is a slippery slope. Right. As if Gorsuch was asked any hard or tough questions.

I did enjoy the interview with Doris Kearns Goodwin.

Now I have to go rewatch New Rules because I fell asleep. 

It seems the show’s promo put up the wrong people who were going to be on last night. Wonder what happened there.

Edited October 6, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[Moxie Cat]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And then his sarcastic “Can I FINISH?”

All I could think of during that was the South Park movie: "Can I finish? Can I finish?... OK, I'm finished."

I have often liked Andrew Sullivan in the past, I admit it, especially when he was a real Obama fan. But last night....wow. If you believe Kavanaugh's innocent, then you also have to believe that Dr. Ford willingly put herself (and her family) through this media circus and all those hours of testimony in order to tell a lie. She would have to be mentally ill to do that. Call ME crazy - I don't think she is. I also don't think all the other women and friends are part of some grand conspiracy. Usually where there's smoke, there's fire. And frankly, I'm a liberal but the Dems are just not crafty enough to orchestrate that.

I can't stand this talking point that SO MANY MEN are wrongfully accused of sexual harassment/assault (also pushed by Trump, Graham, and probably the rest of the geezers). All these lying women are a real problem with our society! Yeah, that's definitely MUCH more of a problem than the real crap women deal with.

I agree with David Jolly (!) - just going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing there are plenty of guys who didn't get plastered regularly and attempt to rape girls in high school. This is NOT normal behavior and certainly shouldn't be in the background of a SCOTUS justice. And it doesn't matter to me when it happened (not sorry, Andrew) - the fact that it likely did shows a severe hole in his character, judgement, and soul to me.

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

It seems the show’s promo put up the wrong people who were going to be on last night. Wonder what happened there.

I noticed that too! The list shown at the end was the same list shown last week. I like both Steve Kornacki and Rebecca Traister.

[wknt3]

8 hours ago, cali1981 said:

Completely agree.  Andrew does this every time he is on the show.  He tries to dominate the conversation because he is, in his own mind, the fount of all wisdom.  It's bad TV and a complete turnoff.

I totally agree and I think most viewers do too, but unfortunately Bill disagrees. In part because he likes shut stirrers, and in part because having AShole on yelling outrageous things at guests allows Bill to seem sensible while being a jerk, in part because he's one of those hosts who thinks intellectual pro wrestling is good TV, and in part because he's lazy and if he's having one of those weeks when he's checked out he can rely on a guest like Sullivan to fill airtime and provide a chance for easy one-liners.
 

7 hours ago, izabella said:

I love that Soledad kept breaking into his strawman to tell him that none of the stuff he was going on about actually happened. 

Agreed. If you are going to book someone like Sullivan for panel (or Michael Moore for that matter) you should book a media pro on the other side who will call out the BS with the same flair it's being delivered with. Don't put them with an academic or some random celebrity who's going to sit there struggling to get a word in edgewise.

 

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I did enjoy the interview with Doris Kearns Goodwin.

Now I have to go rewatch New Rules because I fell asleep. 

It seems the show’s promo put up the wrong people who were going to be on last night. Wonder what happened there.

I also like the interview. New Rules was pretty good so it's worth going back to watch. And thanks for letting me know I'm not crazy about the guests changing from the promo! In today's crazy world where reality is debatable I'm never quite sure if I can trust my memory. Overtime is also worth checking out - the discussion was a lot better than the panel in part because of better topics, but mostly because it was a discussion and not a performance.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Another thing I noticed and I tend to turn off my tv whenever I see his face, is how SWEATY Drumph looked in that clip where he told his cult he and Kim Jong-Un “fell in love.”??

[ganesh]

I have to disagree with Doris about calling Trump a traitor. I don't really care if it doesn't reach certain people or turn them off. They're beyond reaching. I'm not obligated to reach them. 

I think they were kind of missing the point on who to believe. It's Kavanagh's reaction to adversity that was the problem. Clearly she didn't make it up, but dude. 

The mid show bit went on way too long.

9 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

wow. If you believe Kavanaugh's innocent, then you also have to believe that Dr. Ford willingly put herself (and her family) through this media circus and all those hours of testimony in order to tell a lie. She would have to be mentally ill to do that.

I don't think he thinks Kavanagh is innocent. I think he was saying that high school shouldn't count. Which is worse. 

I tend to agree with Bill - there needs to be some kind of Marshall plan for the environment. 

I just can't with "the media is the problem" garbage. Yes, Andrew, the media investigated an allegation of a prominent public figure. In the course of that, a lot of stuff came to light that raised questions about his temperament to be on scotus. If he wasn't a sloppy mean drunk who clearly blacked out and doesn't remember Ford, then the media wouldn't have found anything.

Remember that time the judge withdrew because he smoked weed once? 

"we're very diverse". You mean the entitled of white dudes your trying to save from ALL this persecution? Not really. Basically all the same. 

That's the irony in all this. If they booted Kavanagh the same guy with less baggage would take his place. It's not like if he isn't confirmed then Bernie will be on the court. 

Jolley is exactly the problem too. Ooooh, you "left the party". So brave. And then you immediately hit the "both are just as bad." 

And again, Andrew, why do I have to talk to people who think we should be living in 1953? I'm not the one that wants to deny people equal rights? 

Great ending on OT though. Bill put Doris in stitches. 

Edited October 6, 2018 by ganesh

[Victor the Crab]

I swear, Bill has himself some bipolar opinions continuing on. First, he blames his usual strawmen, so-called social justice warriors for Brett Kavanaugh becoming a Supreme Court justice (WTF??!!!), then he says liberals need to stop harassing well known right wingers at restaurants and other public places and go to the polls next month. What, they can't do both?

Bill's always harping on liberals to stand up and fight the right, yet he's bemoaning them for doing this because he thinks it's counterproductive and will just upset the right. Bill would have been a lousy liberal in his beloved era the Sixties because all those people protesting for civil rights and against the Vietnam War are just being useless and wasting their lives. Bill's decent into irrelevance continues unabated. He'll soon join his old pal Dennis Miller on the right wing comedy circuit.

And Andrew Sullivan can go eat a bag of dicks. Anyone still thinking he's a reasonable conservative needs their heads shaken.

[GHScorpiosRule]

And what was that other Bullshit from Sullivan about how Roe v. Wade doesn’t matter? Or should go away?????? Did he actually say women were better off getting illegal abortions? I couldn’t hear due to the overtalk.

He needs to take SEVERAL HUNDRED SEATS.

[DXD526]

UGH. Sullivan, STFU. The point O'Brien was trying to make was that when Sullivan says 'normal', he means from a white male perspective, because that's all he knows. He thinks that should be 'normal' for everyone is what she was saying, but he totally didn't get that and started to talk about diversity. Which she pointed out was a non-sequitur, which he didn't understand either. A frustrating back-and-forth to watch.

I liked Jolly's reaction when Bill brought up how high school kids used to be threatened with having things put on their 'permanent record'. He said that they were thinking about things like drinking Boone's Farm in the parking lot, not sexual assault!

The Kim Jong-Un bit was a riot. "I want to run my fingers through whatever that is on your head!"

Some great monologue jokes, too. UB40: what Trumps says when he dumps a wife! And it's a good question, after the Kavanaugh fiasco, where exactly does beer go to get its reputation back?

[ganesh]

47 minutes ago, Victor the Crab said:

then he says liberals need to stop harassing well known right wingers at restaurants and other public places and go to the polls next month. What, they can't do both?

I'm not a Texas voter, so I can't vote for Beto. I'm sure most of those people in the restaurant aren't either, or the ladies who confronted Flake. DHS isn't an elected position, so what else can people do? I think maybe drawing the line at going to someone's house is reasonable, but in a public place, hey, too bad. Get a grubhub account if you don't like it. 

34 minutes ago, DXD526 said:

A frustrating back-and-forth to watch.

I do like that she was consistent and firm in calling him out though. If anything, if we're going to criticize the media for something, it's actually *not* holding these people accountable strongly enough - as they said on the show Trump's farce of a 'self made man' is demonstrably false, and none of that came to light over the last two years. Suddenly, the media realizes they dropped the ball and we're in a very bad state, so they're actually trying to practice due diligence.

[Miss Slay]

I'm dizzy...from rolling my eyes at Andrew Sullivan.

[iMonrey]

I found the interview with Doris Kearns Goodwin rather tedious because she's one of those pie-in-the-sky Democrats spewing the same old nonsense about trusting the system and democracy and everything will work out and we'll all live happily ever after. Totally unrealistic. She herself should realize that just by admitting Bill is a better predictor than she is. 

Yes, Sullivan was insufferable and I can only guess that he gets all his news from Fox if he actually believes "the media" made this issue about all white men. WTF? Yeah . . . Fox News sure as hell did because that's they angle they chose to scare people with, just like they do with everything else. They're coming to get you, white men!! But frankly I have no idea what the hell Sullivan is so afraid of. He's a gay man, does he really think some woman is going to come forward with accusations of sexual harassment against him? Also, I can't get past the idea of him playing victim to this nonsense when all the while he's interrupting and shutting down Soledad O'Brien. 

RE: the "enthusiasm" gap between Dems and Repubs - it's been pointed out elsewhere that there is very little point is worrying about how enthusiastic Republicans are or aren't about voting in the mid-terms. Democrats cannot rely on Republicans staying home on election day, they have to get new voters and non-voters to the polls. 

I found myself distracted by Jeff Bridges' ill-fitting shirt which exposed his belly button between the lower buttons.

I cracked up at the idea of Maine's population consisting of Stephen King and two lobsters. Bill does have a point about disproportionate representation in congress.

[ganesh]

48 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I found the interview with Doris Kearns Goodwin rather tedious because she's one of those pie-in-the-sky Democrats spewing the same old nonsense about trusting the system and democracy and everything will work out and we'll all live happily ever after.

Tedious is apt. "We have to believe checks and balances will work." No, we don't. We can elect representatives who will make sure. 

[GoldenGirl90]

"Brett Kavanaugh doesn't have the temperament to be a judge on American Idol." - Bill Maher

I LOL'd! 

Also when he asked why Wyoming is even a state, lol.

And Andrew Sullivan made my head spin.

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I cracked up at the idea of Maine's population consisting of Stephen King and two lobsters. Bill does have a point about disproportionate representation in congress.

And a bear! Don’t forget the bear!????

18 minutes ago, Alexis2291 said:

 

Also when he asked why Wyoming is even a state, lol.

That had me laughing too. And then he went in about the Dakotas!!?????

[Caseysgirl]

Andrew Sullivan must be thinking that his brief flirtation with common sense and open mindedness during the Obama administration was not going to get him bookings in the Trump era. Why else would he defend the straight, white upperclass American males and  the Frat Bros who would have beaten the shit out Andrew and his gay friends back in the day.  They are not your friends, Andrew!

[Apprentice79]

13 hours ago, Caseysgirl said:

Andrew Sullivan must be thinking that his brief flirtation with common sense and open mindedness during the Obama administration was not going to get him bookings in the Trump era. Why else would he defend the straight, white upperclass American males and  the Frat Bros who would have beaten the shit out Andrew and his gay friends back in the day.  They are not your friends, Andrew!

 Andrew Sullivan's behavior showed that his whiteness trumps his gayness.  His irrational defense of the aggrieved White man is just laughable and nonsensical.  It also shows the schism that exists in the LGBT community regarding race and ethnicity.

[izabella]

14 hours ago, Caseysgirl said:

Why else would he defend the straight, white upperclass American males and  the Frat Bros who would have beaten the shit out Andrew and his gay friends back in the day.  They are not your friends, Andrew!

I'm always surprised when minorities defend the white male power culture.  They not only would have beaten up Andrew back in the day, putting one of them on the Supreme Court means they will do it now, too, with court rulings.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Apprentice79 said:

 Andrew Sullivan's behavior showed that his whiteness trumps his gayness.  His irrational defense of the aggrieved White man is just laughable and nonsensical.  It also shows the schism that exists in the LGBT community regarding race and ethnicity.

Also his maleness.

[Apprentice79]

21 minutes ago, izabella said:

I'm always surprised when minorities defend the white male power culture.  They not only would have beaten up Andrew back in the day, putting one of them on the Supreme Court means they will do it now, too, with court rulings.

It is nothing new. Those who benefit from White patriarchy will not challenge the status quo, even if it oppresses members of their marginalized group.

There were women who pushed back against the suffragettes. 

[scrb]

1 hour ago, Apprentice79 said:

 Andrew Sullivan's behavior showed that his whiteness trumps his gayness.  His irrational defense of the aggrieved White man is just laughable and nonsensical.  It also shows the schism that exists in the LGBT community regarding race and ethnicity.

It'd be kind of ironic if Kav is the one who votes to overturn SSM.  His supposed mentor, Kennedy, was the one who wrote the majority opinion on Oberefell, I believe.

Well Sullivan already married so he doesn't care about others who may want to exercise that SSM right.

[Medicine Crow]

My best laugh was at the end of O/T when Bill said something to Andrew about not getting his partner pregnant & Doris K-G asked why ... & then realized Andrew was gay & put her hands over her mouth.  Now THAT was funny!!!

[iMonrey]

Quote

Why else would he defend the straight, white upperclass American males and  the Frat Bros who would have beaten the shit out Andrew and his gay friends back in the day.  They are not your friends, Andrew!

He wasn't any better on Overtime. Doris Goodwin made the sensible suggestions that we need to overturn Citizens United and appoint nonpartisan panels to draw jurisdictions and Sullivan spouted how that would just enflame the right even further. Then . . . what's the answer, dummy? "Oh, we just need to talk to each other."

Spare me.

[sistermagpie]

Sullivan was really a waking contradiction. He doesn't like how people act like just because he's a white man he's pro-rape, but also he apparently thinks rapes in high school shouldn't count.

Also he couldn't have give better proof of that white male privilege in the way that on this show they're taking about the Republican party having just openly mocked and crowed about their cruelty to yet another group of people who aren't white males and they're still talking about how we need to appease the anger of those poor conservative white males. Or as he would call them, the regular people. I was not prepared for his terrible new mustache.

[izabella]

32 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Also he couldn't have give better proof of that white male privilege in the way that on this show they're taking about the Republican party having just openly mocked and crowed about their cruelty to yet another group of people who aren't white males and they're still talking about how we need to appease the anger of those poor conservative white males. Or as he would call them, the regular people. I was not prepared for his terrible new mustache.

Andrew is going to be very surprised when he realizes the anger of those poor conservative white males is nothing, NOTHING, compared to the brewing anger of the women ignored and mocked this week.

[sistermagpie]

4 minutes ago, izabella said:

Andrew is going to be very surprised when he realizes the anger of those poor conservative white males is nothing, NOTHING, compared to the brewing anger of the women ignored and mocked this week.

An anger so inconsequential it doesn't even seem to exist for  him. It's amazing. He thinks women feel the same way--and not just Republican women who've sold their souls to that pov.

[ganesh]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I was not prepared for his terrible new mustache.

None of us were. 

[Victor the Crab]

6 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I was not prepared for his terrible new mustache.

 

3 hours ago, ganesh said:

None of us were. 

A bag over his head would have been an improvement.

[Arcey]

On 10/6/2018 at 8:49 AM, ganesh said:

Great ending on OT though. Bill put Doris in stitches. 

Where does one watch Overtime? Is it on HBO.com? How do you "join us on OT" after the show?

[Sew Sumi]

I watch on YouTube.

[Arcey]

Is it something that's on Live at first? Is it just more conversation among Bill and the guests, or is it studio and home audience participation as well? 

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, Arcey said:

Where does one watch Overtime? Is it on HBO.com? How do you "join us on OT" after the show?

On YouTube

45 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

I watch on YouTube.

It’s been on YouTube for a few seasons now and it’s free. Before we’d have to wait a few days before it would be available on demand. 

39 minutes ago, Arcey said:

Is it something that's on Live at first? Is it just more conversation among Bill and the guests, or is it studio and home audience participation as well? 

Yes. They’re live on YouTube right after the show. And Bill asks his guests questions that viewers have submitted during the regular show panel.

No audience question and answer participation.

Edited October 8, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[MulletorHater]

On 10/6/2018 at 8:42 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I know! I kept yelling STFU! STFU! at not only the shit he was spewing about the poor poor white men but his assholery toward Soledad. And then his sarcastic “Can I FINISH?” as if he hadn’t been interrupting her!?????

Same here. Calling his whatever that the questioning of Kavanaugh was a war on all white men, “Such Bullshit.” And the “Carry on” as she refuted every single word. 

The worst was the canard about Kavanaugh being called or labeled a gang rapist. It was fucking Lindsay Graham who accused those questioning Kavanaugh treating him as if he was a gang rapist. Asshole can’t even get his facts straight when he’s bloviating like Chicken Little.

And I just ???? when he said that the Senate should have questioned him on his unsuitability instead of things from high school that is a slippery slope. Right. As if Gorsuch was asked any hard or tough questions.

 

Amazing how this narrative is now being pushed as a backlash to the MeToo Movement, which was actually started over a decade ago by an African American woman from Harlem named Tarana Burke.  She started the movement for young WOC, one of whom revealed to her at a youth camp that her mother's boyfriend had been abusing her.  These were communities where rape crisis centers and sexual assault workers were not present and the MeToo Movement's initial goal was to let these survivors know, "We see you."

It's fascinating how Sullivan and his ilk are now claiming that it's a movement that victimizes innocent white guys.  Funny how everything is ALWAYS all about them, isn't it?  Evidently, those who were opposed to Kavanaugh's elevation were supposed to meekly sit in a corner and let it be rammed through (as McConnell boasted) with nary a peep of protest. I agree with Soledad that this emerging narrative is, indeed, such bullshit. 

It's interesting that Sullivan takes the position that Kavanaugh shouldn't be questioned about things from high school.  Just imagine if Brett's name was "Jamal" or "Jose" and they had to complete a job application at a fast food restaurant and got stumped when asked to disclose any arrests or convictions stemming from events that occurred while they were in high school and young men of a certain age. What does Sullivan think would have happened? Suppose they failed or refused to disclose those events and were later denied employment or fired because of it? Are we to surmise that McDonald's and Taco Bell have more stringent hiring standards than the Supreme Court? Or, is it that the recent applicant to the Court has some very powerful supporters and is well connected?  Sullivan also ignored that some of Kavanaugh's drunken rages occurred when he was an adult--something that witnesses were ready to discuss with the FBI.  He may have also been asleep when Kavanaugh was, indeed, questioned about various other issues which he lied about under oath, and which are now the subject of several ethics complaints.  Even when Sullivan claimed that Kavanaugh should have been questioned about his unsuitability, he couldn't help equivocating about how Kavanaugh had every right to be angry. 

But, yeah--poor him for being wrongly treated.

[Arcey]

Thanks for the replies about Overtime.

Quote

I'm wondering how much sympathy the #MeToo movement has gotten in the general public.

I also wonder if a lot of men are keeping mum about this in public. Even liberal men. They certainly wouldn't admit out loud that they are afraid women can "accuse any man," and that could mean them. They may not want to fess up in front of a woman, or even another man, but they might be a little sympathetic to Kav.

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Arcey

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, Arcey said:

They may not want to fess up in front of a woman, or even another man, but they might be a little sympathetic to Kav.

I'm not sympathetic to him because once he was accused, like they were talking about on the show, he flew off the handle and acted like an entitled whiny little snot. *Then* it turned out he was a belligerent drunk. I believe her that it happened as she said, regardless of whether anyone else can corroborate it, and he doesn't remember because he was wasted, which was easily corroborated, and he knows it too. I think Bill pointed out that the FBI wasn't allowed to contact any of those people. 

[DangerousMinds]

2 hours ago, Arcey said:

Thanks for the replies about Overtime.

I also wonder if a lot of men are keeping mum about this in public. Even liberal men. They certainly wouldn't admit out loud that they are afraid women can "accuse any man," and that could mean them. They may not want to fess up in front of a woman, or even another man, but they might be a little sympathetic to Kav.

 

Hopefully they realize that false accusations are VERY rare.