Bodyguard - General Discussion

[Janc]

I was sure Julia was still alive, was waiting until the very end for that reveal but it never came.  So did this whole assassination plot begin once they knew Budd would be on the train, and they hoped he would jump into action to defuse the bomber/Nadia, and then he'd be rewarded by Craddock to be assigned to Julia.?  Or did the plot to kill Julia begin only when he was promoted to her bodyguard, and they lucked out?  

And maybe I missed it, but was there two tablets with the kompramat? Because Julia only received it once they were living at the hotel, so how did it end up in her frame at home - how did it get back there?  Then we saw Budd hide it in his wall, but then all of a sudden it's buried in the cemetery? 

[orza]

28 minutes ago, Janc said:

I was sure Julia was still alive, was waiting until the very end for that reveal but it never came.  So did this whole assassination plot begin once they knew Budd would be on the train, and they hoped he would jump into action to defuse the bomber/Nadia, and then he'd be rewarded by Craddock to be assigned to Julia.?  Or did the plot to kill Julia begin only when he was promoted to her bodyguard, and they lucked out?  

Craddock said explicitly that she chose Budd because he would be the perfect fall guy with his military background and unstable personality. She was his boss so she knew when he was taking time off and Budd probably casually mentioned where he was going and what he would be doing, as people usually do at work. Had Budd made plans to drive to his mother's place they would have modified their plan accordingly. That doesn't need to be spelled out in detail on screen. They got the point across that what appeared to be a lucky coincidence of Budd being in the right place at the right time was, in fact, carefully orchestrated.

[Athena]

1 hour ago, Janc said:

And maybe I missed it, but was there two tablets with the kompramat? Because Julia only received it once they were living at the hotel, so how did it end up in her frame at home - how did it get back there?  Then we saw Budd hide it in his wall, but then all of a sudden it's buried in the cemetery? 

No, you didn't miss it. I had to speculate on these events. While Julia was living at the hotel, she was probably able to drop in home at some points to get clothing etc. She knew that kompramat had to be some place more secure than the hotel or on her person. Budd probably buried it before his confrontation with Chanel and Luke and as a trap for Longcross's group.

[dkb]

Something is definitely shady about Chanel. 

The finale should be interesting, now that Budd has access to the tablet.

Still not sure if Julia is actually dead, or pretending or who would be behind the attempt on her. 

[dkb]

Yeah, the whole thing just fizzled out after the terrific prior efforts.

I don't know how I feel about the Nadia thing, like @Bec said, why would she tell them now that she's the mastermind. Seemed like in general the police were being lenient on her, and she could still supply information to her group; so why reveal the truth?

Edited November 6, 2018 by dkb

[rab01]

On 11/5/2018 at 9:53 AM, Athena said:

No, you didn't miss it. I had to speculate on these events. While Julia was living at the hotel, she was probably able to drop in home at some points to get clothing etc. She knew that kompramat had to be some place more secure than the hotel or on her person. Budd probably buried it before his confrontation with Chanel and Luke and as a trap for Longcross's group.

They showed Budd reviewing her movements on a computer screen (which showed a return to her residence from the hotel), and showed him looking slowly at the picture when he went into the apartment with the other police officer to officially look for the tablet.  It was blink and you miss it stuff but not totally omitted.  They didn't show any of Budd's final preparations (including setting the acid trap) so not being shown him burying the kompromat didn't bother me.

I just finished the series last night and loved it.  I liked not being sure until episode 4 or so whether or not Budd was shady.  I think they even pretty much stuck the landing - I'm not certain there wasn't a conspiracy higher up just based on what we were shown.  Certainly no one else was fingered by the mob boss but that doesn't mean that none of the other figures weren't engaged in more nefarious goings on and using him as a cut-out.  

[truther]

That scene with David and his kids ("I just want a hug") was incredible.  I haven't seen anyone mention it.  Just a great bit of storytelling and so powerful.  

[Bridget]

On 10/25/2018 at 7:27 PM, dkb said:

I liked Keeley Hawes performance on Line of Duty, so was excited to see her in a lead actress here. She was amazing on that show.

Can't be as easy as David just shooting her, so we'll see where it goes.

Keeley was in another one of my all time favorite shows, MI5. When it aired in the UK, it was called Spooks, but it’s 10 seasons of awesomeness.

If you ladies & gents are enjoying this show, get yourselves to Hulu and watch MI5.

Richard Madden’s own accent makes this show even better. He is so handsome to begin with and when he opens his mouth, it makes him even more gorgeous! 

There are loads of Scots that live and work in England; that detail alone makes it much more believable for me.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Bridget

[truther]

I just noticed something that totally took me out of the show - these events are supposedly taking place end of October/beginning of November, and yet *there isn't a single poppy being worn by anyone*

[emjohnson03]

REALLY REALLY enjoyed this series.

I saw some stuff about this summer and I was intrigued and glad Netflix grabbed it fast. I watched all of it last night.

I love the way it was shot and I thought all the characters were strong, and yes, Richard Madden hit all the right notes with me :)

I did feel a little letdown by the ending as I thought it seemed a little oh, that's it? But the action scenes really made up for the ending.

Would watch again and told all my friend to tune in. The BBC does some wonderful work!

[ruby24]

So, I really enjoyed the show as a whole, implausibility and all, but I kinda feel like maybe they should have given Julia at least one more episode before killing her off. I think deepening the relationship between her and David by even just one more episode would have worked better for his mad vengeance quest. Her saying she wants him to be right beside her seemed a little sudden, since it occurred right after the PTSD incident, without them even talking about it or anything. I mean...was he into that, was he interested in being with her for real, the way she was suggesting? I think if it was just a tad more developed, that would have made what happened even more devastating and very easily explained him tipping over the edge after her death.

As it was, that part felt a little too sudden for me. Not that he wouldn't have been upset, but to go around like that, trying to kill himself, taking charge of the investigation and threatening her ex-husband, etc. is more the actions of a Dirty Harry type, somebody who's really lost with grief. Even with his instability, I think that would have been more plausible if we knew he was really in love with this woman or something, and I didn't get that impression, since he was still attached to his wife the whole series. But like I said, probably one more episode of her and him and I could have bought it.

I'm not one of the people who thinks she's not really dead though. I mean, I guess anything's possible, but faking an elaborate death that led to all that? Plus, in a second season what purpose would it serve to bring her back? So he can be her bodyguard again somehow? Nah. I don't buy it. I think this was probably it, but that's why I would have liked at least one more episode with her.

Actually- eight episodes would have been a better amount for this than six. Stretch the affair into five episodes, then kill her off and do the rest of it.

Edited November 15, 2018 by ruby24

[catrice2]

On 11/5/2018 at 10:54 PM, dkb said:

Yeah, the whole thing just fizzled out after the terrific prior efforts.

I don't know how I feel about the Nadia thing, like @Bec said, why would she tell them now that she's the mastermind. Seemed like in general the police were being lenient on her, and she could still supply information to her group; so why reveal the truth?

Ego.  Sometimes people like that are just dying to take the credit, and they had already tied her DNA to it.  She knew she was not getting out one way or the other, so she wanted some glory and to have her story posted to be a symbol to her cause. Once they had her DNA on the device whatever leniency she may have had was going to be gone.  

I agree, however, that it didn't make sense, but I could see it happening. 

[catrice2]

If there is another series I hope they do not put him back with his wife, and I hope he is working with the Sgt..I think her name was Louise?  I could see a really good friendship there. I would have to suspend all belief, however, that he could be effective after everyone knows he tried to blow his brains out and after he was paraded all over the television with a bomb strapped to him, innocent or not.   Not to mention all of the deception he engaged in.  It will be interesting how they try to rehabilitate him in another series. 

I was not all that invested in him and Julia and her death was no big loss to the series to me.  I have always thought, save for a few things, that Keely Hawes is way overrated. 

[ruby24]

54 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

If there is another series I hope they do not put him back with his wife, and I hope he is working with the Sgt..I think her name was Louise?  I could see a really good friendship there. I would have to suspend all belief, however, that he could be effective after everyone knows he tried to blow his brains out and after he was paraded all over the television with a bomb strapped to him, innocent or not.   Not to mention all of the deception he engaged in.  It will be interesting how they try to rehabilitate him in another series. 

I agree they shouldn't put him back with the wife. I didn't care about her or that relationship at all, to be honest. I'm also not sure about Louise- I mean, I guess she was okay but I'm not dying to see them as partners or anything.  But it would probably happen anyway, since she's been established now as someone for him to work with there. Unfortunately if there's another relationship it'll probably be with the wife or her, and I didn't really think either of them brought anything special to the show, so I'm not looking forward to that.

Good points on the rest of that stuff, lol. The biggest thing is that he literally shot himself in the head and would be dead right now if not for someone sabotaging his gun, that's pretty insane. I can't imagine they would hire him back in an important position after doing something like that, even if he got treatment. But it's TV of course, and he'd have to be back in some capacity in another season, so that'll just have to be overlooked.

I did like Julia and I think the whole steamy, affair was one of the draws for the show overall, so I'm sure that's tempting for them, but resurrecting her from the dead would be awfully over the top, so I'm doubtful that happens. I DO think they would likely put him with someone else though, because again, the show became known in part for the affair and the sex scenes and I have a feeling they'd want to have him with somebody else to maintain that part of it. (Although it's not like they made him out to be a womanizer or anything- I think they wanted to convey that he was into Julia specifically, because otherwise he was still hung up on his wife for most of this, so turning him into someone who just beds other women might not feel in character either).

Edited November 18, 2018 by ruby24

[orza]

I don't think the show needs to come back at all. It was a complete story and could be left at that. However, TV being a for-profit business, it is, apparently, difficult to resist the urge to extend a successful idea in the hopes of continued financial success.

Budd would need to be put in a different job for a second series to avoid just retreading the series one plot. Perhaps he could be recruited by a hostage negotiation, crisis management or a similar team. If Richard Madden does manage to get tapped to be the next Bond, I doubt a second series would materialize because it would be too similar to a Bond role.

A crime or political thriller doesn't need a romance to be engaging so I would rather they not go there. From what I have seen of his work, Jed Mercurio leans more toward depicting short-lived affairs that don't go anywhere rather than romantic relationships. Line of Duty has done well with this approach.

[ruby24]

28 minutes ago, orza said:

I don't think the show needs to come back at all. It was a complete story and could be left at that. However, TV being a for-profit business, it is, apparently, difficult to resist the urge to extend a successful idea in the hopes of continued financial success.

Budd would need to be put in a different job for a second series to avoid just retreading the series one plot. Perhaps he could be recruited by a hostage negotiation, crisis management or a similar team. If Richard Madden does manage to get tapped to be the next Bond, I doubt a second series would materialize because it would be too similar to a Bond role.

A crime or political thriller doesn't need a romance to be engaging so I would rather they not go there. From what I have seen of his work, Jed Mercurio leans more toward depicting short-lived affairs that don't go anywhere rather than romantic relationships. Line of Duty has done well with this approach.

Are these Bond rumors based on anything concrete or is it just fans/press thinking he'd be good at it and trying to put that out there? Because I can definitely see that he'd be perfect for it and I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted him, but I just wonder how solid those reports are. Especially considering that the last Craig one hasn't even started filming yet.

[orza]

5 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Are these Bond rumors based on anything concrete or is it just fans/press thinking he'd be good at it and trying to put that out there? Because I can definitely see that he'd be perfect for it and I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted him, but I just wonder how solid those reports are. Especially considering that the last Craig one hasn't even started filming yet.

It's just rumors and people trying to create buzz at this point. For example, I read several reviews that made hyperbolic statements about Bodyguard being Madden's Bond audition. I agree he would make a good Bond, certainly better than some of the other names being bandied about.

[ruby24]

23 minutes ago, orza said:

It's just rumors and people trying to create buzz at this point. For example, I read several reviews that made hyperbolic statements about Bodyguard being Madden's Bond audition. I agree he would make a good Bond, certainly better than some of the other names being bandied about.

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely not hard to make that leap after watching this, lol. My mom called me after watching it and was like "he should be James Bond!" A dark-haired, blue eyed Scot who's plenty young enough to stay in the role for a long time...I think everyone who watches this could see it easily.

[catrice2]

 I don't see him as Bond at all. He's not actually even that attractive to me, however I've enjoyed every James Bond movie there ever was and I didn't always think that the other actors (At least not all of them) were attractive either. Other than being young and in shape I didn't get Bond out of him at all. I would like to see him working with the team of the guy( I can't remember his name)  and Louise. I was not suggesting a romantic entanglement between the two of them, rather an acknowledgement that she did not tell on him about his PTSD as he had suspected and maybe they can Rebuild trust based on that. If there has to be a second 2nd series I would think he needs to be somewhere totally different with an entirely different cast. Again for the fiction I can see them ignoring the fact that it would be unrealistic after all the events for people to forget that and think he would be okay in high-pressure situations  But I'm sure that's the route they will go.

[justmehere]

Just planned talks so far:

https://ew.com/tv/2018/11/18/bodyguard-second-season-richard-madden-netflix/

[ruby24]

How and why did David have keys to Julia's flat anyway? That is a little weird, especially since their affair started at the hotel, didn't it?

[rab01]

9 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

How and why did David have keys to Julia's flat anyway? That is a little weird, especially since their affair started at the hotel, didn't it?

I would assume he was given a set as head of her security detail.
(Though I guess it might also be from when he searched it before with the other officer.)

[ruby24]

41 minutes ago, rab01 said:

I would assume he was given a set as head of her security detail.
(Though I guess it might also be from when he searched it before with the other officer.)

Well, Rayburn thought he must have had them cut while he was the PPO, and said that was suspicious in itself, so I don't know when he would have been given them.

[Infie]

re: the compromising material in the photo

Before Julia spoke to the PM at Chequers, she told Budd that if she didn't come back, to go to the Death Star --> the photo of her and Blair 'planning the Death Star'.  He remembered her saying that after he reviewed the transport logs that showed her making a trip home on personal grounds before the trip to Chequers.  Seeing the photo during the walkthrough with Rayburn reinforced it all - he did know where the compromat was, because Julia had told him.  A nice confirmation that he was, indeed, the one person that she really did trust.  

Everything else

It was cool when rewatching to see the little hints of the organized crime involvement throughout every episode. 

I think that originally Budd was put into place by chance the first time, and then after Julia had her explosion about him being removed from her service they decided that he would make a great fall guy.  Luc Aikens saw him at the meeting that Ampstead was running, plus they'd already specified that him being a target for the extremists made Julia a greater target.  I think that putting him back on her service was laying the groundwork for him to be blamed two possible ways - either he was a part of the conspiracy through Ampstead, or Julia was an unfortunate casualty of the extremists striking at Budd and getting her instead.  

As for Budd's behaviour during the investigation - it is actually very in line with how PTSD works.  When you're in control you are in absolute hyperfocus, and when that hyperfocus wavers, you leak all around the edges in unpredictable ways.  Every piece of stress makes both of those things worse - the focus tighter, the leaks more pressurized.  I thought that the increases and decreases in the intensity of his outbursts from the beginning to the end were really effectively done.  In the beginning he's holding it together but wobbling at the edges; after he and Julia begin the affair he starts to ease up a bit.  He's reacting with anger to small impetus, but he's allowing himself the release of aggression through sex - and each time they show the sex it's more violent.  Then, everything starts to collapse and he's on full lockdown but it's a boiler about to blow.  Really well done. 

The things I thought most telling were his interactions with Chantel at the coffeeshop and initially at the bar.  David Budd is at his most charming and personable when he's lying his ass off and baiting a trap.  He seemed completely relaxed; I loved the detail of his true self peeking through at the bar after Chanel made the comment about her drink being paid for by Nazi gold.   Madden really sold that icy stare.  

I was so impressed by this series, wow.  I agree the ending was a bit weak, but overall they left some options for series two, and Richard Madden got to show his skills in a really amazing way.  

[ruby24]

5 hours ago, Infie said:

  As for Budd's behaviour during the investigation - it is actually very in line with how PTSD works.  When you're in control you are in absolute hyperfocus, and when that hyperfocus wavers, you leak all around the edges in unpredictable ways.  Every piece of stress makes both of those things worse - the focus tighter, the leaks more pressurized.  I thought that the increases and decreases in the intensity of his outbursts from the beginning to the end were really effectively done.  In the beginning he's holding it together but wobbling at the edges; after he and Julia begin the affair he starts to ease up a bit.  He's reacting with anger to small impetus, but he's allowing himself the release of aggression through sex - and each time they show the sex it's more violent.  Then, everything starts to collapse and he's on full lockdown but it's a boiler about to blow.  Really well done. 

I hadn't noticed this, but now that that you've mentioned it, yeah, you're right! I don't know if "violent" is the right word exactly, but it definitely gets more intense and aggressive as it goes on. I wonder if that was on purpose. It must have been, I suppose. 

Edited November 20, 2018 by ruby24

[Infie]

I've been thinking about this some more.

Budd

Julia's death is even more tragic after thinking further.  She'd seen him at what he very likely considers his absolute worst - attacking her - and she forgave him for it pretty much immediately.  He knows that it means the end of his job and their relationship and he's got it all locked down tightly, but the day of St Matthew's he's pretty much just waiting for the shoe to drop.  Then it does - Julia says that he can't be on her service any longer and he's sort of quietly gutted but it was expected and he'd been steeling himself for it all night and all day so he's got a lid on it.  But then, then she says that she wants him by her side anyway.  She wants him - broken, violent, ill, barely holding it together, him, and that he was not expecting.  It's a shock and it almost brings him to tears, and it's something he hasn't heard since before the war most likely.  And it gives him something else he hasn't had in a really long time - hope.  So having all of that torn away from him hours later - being thrust back into that dark place - was just beyond devastating, and in his mind it was all his own fault, his own failure.  No wonder he pulled the gun and tried to make it stop.  The blank round got his attention and have him something else to focus on, something other than the despair that's otherwise eating him alive, but I don't think that it was until he had the suicide vest on that he actually felt like he wanted to live.

Which leads me to 

Julia, as symbol

In rerouting his focus to solving the conspiracy, Budd saves himself but he also falls at least partially into the trap of no longer viewing Julia as a person.  Instead, her death is a symbol of his intolerable failure.  He's at least partially chasing the conspiracy because he can't bear to leave that failure unaddressed.  Everyone else does this too.  Even Sampson, who makes the room feel bad with her statement 'a woman was murdered' is missing at least a part of the point.  *Many* people were murdered.  Terry, Kim, the police at the attempted school bombing, the other deaths at St Matthews - all of these people deserved justice and Julia would have been the first person to point that out.  It feels to me as though those other losses got ignored. :( 

Quote

Ruby24 said:

I hadn't noticed this, but now that that you've mentioned it, yeah, you're right! I don't know if "violent" is the right word exactly, but it definitely gets more intense and aggressive as it goes on. I wonder if that was on purpose. It must have been, I suppose

Yeah, 'violent' wasn't the word I wanted to use either.  Intense didn't quite work for me either - all of the times they showed were quite intense in different ways.  I was thinking maybe 'physical' but that didn't quite work.  Passionate, no.  *shrug*  Still not quite sure the right word for it, but most importantly you got what I meant. :)

[Athena]

7 hours ago, Infie said:

In rerouting his focus to solving the conspiracy, Budd saves himself but he also falls at least partially into the trap of no longer viewing Julia as a person.  Instead, her death is a symbol of his intolerable failure.  He's at least partially chasing the conspiracy because he can't bear to leave that failure unaddressed.  Everyone else does this too. 

This was my read on it too. I didn't think that we are necessarily suppose to buy this grand romance they were having; it was passionate and intense. However, it revealed a lot more about their characters. They did have feelings for each other, but Budd's resolve to uncover the conspiracy is also his unflinching commitment to not fail. We see this in the first scenes of the series when he goes all in to diffuse the bomb situation on the train including ignoring the orders of other officers. He is scared the whole time and his kids are close by, but he has a strong sense of duty and fear of failure. 

If they hadn't had the affair, he may have been slightly less unhinged, but Budd was correct in his paranoia. He was put at the centre of the conspiracy and being framed. All this coupled with the PTSD made him very unstable the last two episodes. 

[Infie]

11 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I hadn't noticed this, but now that that you've mentioned it, yeah, you're right! I don't know if "violent" is the right word exactly, but it definitely gets more intense and aggressive as it goes on. I wonder if that was on purpose. It must have been, I suppose. 

 

A second followup - I think that it (at least partly) was intended to show that Budd was being more himself each time and less what he thought he was supposed to be. Like - each encounter takes us deeper in Budd's psyche.  The first one - surface Budd.  Kind, collected, giving.  The second one - next layer.  Bitter, a little mechanical, duty -oriented, cut off.  The third one - layer three.  Out of control, barely holding on (to her hand in a death-grip). 

Quote

Athena said: 

This was my read on it too. I didn't think that we are necessarily suppose to buy this grand romance they were having; it was passionate and intense.

Agreed.  I don't think that they were in love, though it may have been possible for them to get there.  I do think that they had made a genuine connection and had in Julia's case gotten far enough to believe that she wanted more, and in Budd's case to begin to have some hope for himself.  

We also see him begin to distance himself from the idea of her when he switches from 'who killed Julia' to 'who killed Julia Montague'.  Inevitable, but sad.

Though I think that Aikens' 'it wasn't personal' brought it all roaring back to the forefront.  Such amazing work by Richard Madden. 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Infie

[ruby24]

2 hours ago, Infie said:

A second followup - I think that it (at least partly) was intended to show that Budd was being more himself each time and less what he thought he was supposed to be. Like - each encounter takes us deeper in Budd's psyche.  The first one - surface Budd.  Kind, collected, giving.  The second one - next layer.  Bitter, a little mechanical, duty -oriented, cut off.  The third one - layer three.  Out of control, barely holding on (to her hand in a death-grip). 

Agreed.  I don't think that they were in love, though it may have been possible for them to get there.  I do think that they had made a genuine connection and had in Julia's case gotten far enough to believe that she wanted more, and in Budd's case to begin to have some hope for himself.  

We also see him begin to distance himself from the idea of her when he switches from 'who killed Julia' to 'who killed Julia Montague'.  Inevitable, but sad.

Though I think that Aikens' 'it wasn't personal' brought it all roaring back to the forefront.  Such amazing work by Richard Madden. 

Actually he only says this once to his boss when she throws him off duty, the next episode he's back to 'Julia' in a frantic way when he's got the bomb strapped to him. I think he was attached to the idea of her very strongly after her death actually. When he says it to Rayburn and she calls him on it, he never thinks twice about checking himself, he starts using her name even more. Plus when he was interrogating that doctor at the hospital and goes out of his way to correct her (twice!) when she calls Julia Penhaligon's 'wife' instead of 'ex-wife,'- that seemed to trigger him, lol.

I do wish they'd had him respond in some sort of way to what she had said to him about wanting to be with him- that was sort of surprising to me that she actually wanted that and was already assuming they had some kind of future together. I would have liked to know his reaction to that idea, considering he was still married and obviously still hung up on his wife (although notice he stops calling her 'love' when the affair heats up). I do think that was part of his reaction to her death and his intent on finding her killers. But I'm curious to know if he was actually into the idea of being with her, because he definitely looked surprised when she said that, but I couldn't figure out if he wanted that too.

[Horrified]

On 11/18/2018 at 3:01 PM, orza said:

Budd would need to be put in a different job for a second series to avoid just retreading the series one plot. Perhaps he could be recruited by a hostage negotiation, crisis management or a similar team. If Richard Madden does manage to get tapped to be the next Bond, I doubt a second series would materialize because it would be too similar to a Bond role.

Agree.  I see him being "forcibly retired" due to PTSD and then going to work as head of security for some corporate VIP like Mohammed al Fayed.  Still allows for plenty of intrigue, glamour etc.

[ruby24]

23 hours ago, Horrified said:

Agree.  I see him being "forcibly retired" due to PTSD and then going to work as head of security for some corporate VIP like Mohammed al Fayed.  Still allows for plenty of intrigue, glamour etc.

Yup. This is how they'd have to reboot it. Not too hard to do that much. 

One of the things that got a lot of attention and buzz for the show though, was the intriguing, gender bent power dynamics between him and Keeley Hawes. I saw lots of articles about the idea of older women being sexually desired by younger men and being the one in power, etc. Even Jed Mercurio said that was one of the big things he wanted to show/explore with the concept. And all the fans who want her to somehow come back even now, shows everyone was into that.

Rebooting it the obvious way it would likely become a more conventional thriller/cop show without that part of it. Possibly resurrecting her could keep that other stuff in play, but otoh, it might be too ridiculous to believe. (Though, to be fair, these kinds of shows have all kinds of ludicrous plot twists you just have to go with- this one was no exception, let's be honest).

I COULD see something happening where he's got a new job in a new place, some private corporation or something, like you said, and then whatever the new conspiracy is turns into a big plot reveal halfway through the new season where's she faked her death or something and has helped orchestrate bringing him in on it. Not totally impossible imo. And I'll admit that that to me, would be more intriguing than turning it into an anthology series.

I mean, I don't know who could have possibly helped her to do that, lol, but she did have an awful lot of secret maneuvering she was doing the whole time- she  was even going against the Security Service guys in the end, right, so theoretically there could be somebody else behind the scenes who orchestrated this while she was in the hospital. (We did NOT see a body or even an operating room, and David was gone for a while, so they left themselves some serious wiggle room imo, IF they wanted to go this route. I mean, everybody's suspicious on this show, even the doctor could have been in on something). 

ETA: Also, if she managed to sneak back to her house to hide the tablet, and then gave him a coded message in what turned out to be an actual instruction (I don't know how she knew he would figure out that Death Star thing, but I guess she was right), then she may have managed to make some other secret arrangement with somebody for herself in case of something happening. There's plenty of gaps there that could be explained/filled if they wanted to bring her back, now that I think about it.

Edited November 21, 2018 by ruby24

[ruby24]

You know it's funny, when she told him someone made an allegation about their affair, I wondered at first if it could be the guard posted outside the hotel door. Aside from the bugging of the room, if that dude didn't know what was going on every night he was deaf. 

Even in the third episode when they were pretending to be professional in the hallway I was thinking yeah, there's no way that guy didn't hear you two last night.

Edited November 22, 2018 by ruby24

[morakot]

In the current environment, I thought the seduction of Budd by Julia was uncomfortable to watch. She's still in a position to fire him, and if the genders had been reversed, it would have made the power differential even clearer. I had to watch carefully for his responses and I still was not convinced that it was anything more than "getting her rocks off" (with a side of adrenalin release after almost dying) on her side, and a bit of aggression release on his. He's definitely a caretaker, so his responses before and after her death are understandable from that point of view. 

Aside from that, while I was sympathetic to Julia's loneliness, I didn't really trust her.

[Purple Hyatt]

Hey...wasn't the shooter the same guy who killed Robb Starks wife??

[Athena]

1 hour ago, Purple Hyatt said:

Hey...wasn't the shooter the same guy who killed Robb Starks wife??

Yes. Tom Brooke plays Andy and was Lothar Frey for S3 in Game of Thrones. Lothar is played by someone else in later season though.

[Paloma]

Poor Budd, with all the conflicts of interest and information he has to keep hidden, on top of his PTSD and mess of a family life. Given how determined he has seemed to behave professionally, I find it a little hard to believe he would continue a sexual relationship with Julia (the first time I could understand, with both of them having narrowly escaped death). But I guess it's one way to ensure he can follow his orders to spy on Julia. 

I'm assuming that there is a conspiracy within the government to build up fear of terrorism in order to implement laws that will restrict freedoms, and it will be interesting to see who is behind this. Julia is being presented as the obvious suspect, but it's probably a lot more complicated. I'm having trouble following all the unfamiliar governmental units and acronyms but hope it will eventually become clear(er).

[Paloma]

On 11/18/2018 at 6:01 PM, orza said:

Budd would need to be put in a different job for a second series to avoid just retreading the series one plot. Perhaps he could be recruited by a hostage negotiation, crisis management or a similar team.

When the train incident happened in the first episode, I actually thought he might be a hostage negotiator already, and if not he should be. But now that Nadia has said "ha, ha, I fooled you," I don't know if he would have the confidence to deal with a similar situation. And counseling or not, PTSD doesn't just go away so could be considered a disqualifier for a hostage negotiation or crisis management team. 

[dargosmydaddy]

https://variety.com/2018/film/news/golden-globe-nominations-2019-1203082075/

The series got nominated for a Golden Globe for best TV drama, and Richard Madden (very deservedly) got a nominee for lead actor.

[ruby24]

Congrats!

[methodwriter85]

I really liked the bit where the wife notices the suicide letters.

I'm shocked they already killed off Montague but then I realized this is a British series and it's only got 6 episodes. We're already past the half-way point.

[methodwriter85]

On 11/4/2018 at 10:08 PM, truther said:

I've also just finished the first 3 episodes and while I'm generally liking the show a lot, it's starting to veer into "24" territory. In less than a week of story time we've had a thwarted suicide bombing on a commuter train, a truck bomb/shootout at a primary school, a sniper attack in the middle of London, and now a bombing at a university lecture with heavy casualties. And the conspiracy gets ever deeper and higher. I hope they pull it back a bit into reality. 

I saw the 4th episode, and I think the date

Spoiler

of the bombing was October 31st/November 1st, with the start of the show starting on October 1st, I believe. A little more believable, I think.

[methodwriter85]

On 11/2/2018 at 1:21 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Up until the very last second I was expecting Budd and his whole family to get blown up in the car. A sappy ending indeed but I guess it leaves an opening for a second season.

Yeah, I was expecting that but then I kept remembering that Madden's talked about doing a season 2. I did like that his wife stuck by his side and believed him- that made the sappier ending more believable.

I didn't really expect Julia to be alive and I'm glad they kept her dead. This show seemed to have some kind of grounding in reality and I think faking a death would have been career suicide for Julia- she never would have been respected or believed again. I think Julia would have realized that, and I don't think she would have gone for that.

I'm okay with Nadia somehow being the mastermind but it feels a little bit like when Beaver was revealed as the evil mastermind in the season 2 finale of Veronica Mars.

[Chaos Theory]

I love that Nadia was somehow the mastermind.  That the whole thing snowballed because Budd saves her life and showed her pictures of his family.   

Not sure how I feel about Julia's Death.  I really liked her character and was sorry when she got killed off.  Kinda shopped Budd and Julia more then I did with him and his wife.  

[blackwing]

Just started watching and I am hooked.  For those that are more familiar with modern day English society... Madden's character referred to the two bombers as "Asian".  They appeared to be of Indian or Pakistani descent.  Here in the U.S., I think generally when people say "Asian" most people refer to people of East or Southeast Asian origin - Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Filipino, Thai.  I think Americans would either say "South Asian", "Indian" or "Pakistani" to refer to people of those descents.

Question, is there a separate term the English use for people of East Asian descent?  Because when Madden said the bombing suspect was an "Asian male" but had no bomb, from an American perspective that seems like it isn't specific enough.  If I was on the train I'd be looking for someone of East Asian descent and while the person of South Asian descent could walk right past me.

[orza]

This show was made for British TV so I don't see an issue. They don't have to write the dialog from an American perspective. The police looking for suspects on the train were all British. India and Pakistan are located in Asia so describing the suspects as Asian is not incorrect.

[blackwing]

4 hours ago, orza said:

This show was made for British TV so I don't see an issue. They don't have to write the dialog from an American perspective. The police looking for suspects on the train were all British. India and Pakistan are located in Asia so describing the suspects as Asian is not incorrect.

I don't disagree that it is not incorrect, and I agree with you that the show is a British show made for a British audience.  I was just curious as to what terminology an English person would use to describe someone of East Asian descent.  Or do they not make a distinction?

Edited December 10, 2018 by blackwing

[Chaos Theory]

20 hours ago, blackwing said:

I don't disagree that it is not incorrect, and I agree with you that the show is a British show made for a British audience.  I was just curious as to what terminology an English person would use to describe someone of East Asian descent.  Or do they not make a distinction?

I am guessing but Asian would mostly likely be used to describe Japanese or Chinese and the like. More then likely an American would describe the bomber and his wife as middle eastern decent.  I was wondering why he didn’t but then realized terminology might be different and was actually more curious what Home Secretary was in relation to a US position and realized we don’t have one because our system is different.  I originally thought security of state but that isn’t really the same thing.  

[spaceghostess]

On 11/1/2018 at 12:29 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

I don't see why they couldn't immediately identify the gunman who ambushed Julia's car. Wasn't he in the military with Budd? You'd think his fingerprints and dental records would be on file unless he went to a lot of effort to alter his body in some way.

 

OMG, YES, thank you!!

I just binged this series and that was irritating the hell out of me from the minute he killed himself. Such a ridiculous, gaping hole really undermined the whole thing for me.

Edited to add: On the other hand, Richard Madden could be in any manner o' Swiss cheesy thing and I'd still watch (and swoon).

Edited December 11, 2018 by spaceghostess

[ruby24]

I think it'd be the equivalent of Homeland Security Secretary, probably. Although here, the Department of Homeland Security didn't even exist until after 9/11, where the Home Office in the UK is much older. I think the Home Office combines some departments that would be considered DOJ jurisdiction here. They seem to have the equivalent of the FBI (police) and NSA (Security Service?) under the same department, for example, while here the FBI is part of the DOJ and the NSA is separate, under the DNI, while Homeland Security is restricted to immigration. So, basically the Home Secretary is a much bigger position, with all these agencies under the same department.

[Athena]

On 12/10/2018 at 4:43 PM, blackwing said:

I don't disagree that it is not incorrect, and I agree with you that the show is a British show made for a British audience.  I was just curious as to what terminology an English person would use to describe someone of East Asian descent.  Or do they not make a distinction?

 

On 12/11/2018 at 1:29 PM, Chaos Theory said:

I am guessing but Asian would mostly likely be used to describe Japanese or Chinese and the like. More then likely an American would describe the bomber and his wife as middle eastern decent. 

I have personal experience with this terminology. In the UK, Asian usually means South Asian (Indian, Pakistani, Sri Lankan, Bangladeshi). This is the largest minority group in the UK and has been for many decades due to colonial history. When filling forms or bureaucracy, "Asian" has been used for this group. For East Asians, Chinese was a category in UK forms as well. While other East Asians live in the UK, most Britons interactions with East Asians are with the Chinese. With globalization and the changing landscape in the last twenty years, the term East and South Asian are now more common in the UK and I believe the forms are more inclusive and less specific.