Spoilers and Speculation

[peach]

20 minutes ago, Statman said:

Gimple will spend 3-4 minimum milking Carl’s death. The pacing on this she is horrendous. 

3-4 episodes, or minutes?  Because they spent about 3-4 minutes on Carl's eye getting shot out after the last SHOCKING SHOCKER mid season finale.  Maybe one minute, really.  I guess Glenn's death got 3-4 whole minutes of aftermath.  I would expect this show to off Carl, and then act like he never existed, except for passing by his dirt mound once in a while. 

Maybe they'll really shock us, and Michonne will die instead.  Since she actually has a career now. 

59 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Well, I have been wrong lots of time before and could be wrong now. Maybe he is killed in the war with Negan.

Possible, since it seems like he would maybe be starting to get sick by the time they were having a night time battle.  Although they change that sort of thing to fit the moment.

57 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Or maybe Carl simply "disappears".

That's my pet theory, that they could have him disappear and come back later as a recast actor if Chandler wants to quit.

[GreyBunny]

5 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Carl was in the preview. He said that they just have to survive the night. It makes me think that his death might happen.

He might as well have a neon sign over his head that says "I'm toast."

[Gobi]

Maybe the shocking moment will be - Negan shows up, and DOESN'T MONOLOGUE!

[bosawks]

26 minutes ago, Gobi said:

Maybe the shocking moment will be - Negan shows up, and DOESN'T MONOLOGUE!

Or mention his dick...

[ParadoxLost]

Filming of the whole season already wrapped, right?  Wouldn't it be fairly common knowledge among the spoiled if someone major died mid season given the close tabs certain groups keep on who is and isn't filming.  I don't seek anything out beyond what makes its way over here so I don't know if someone hasn't been filming.

And if Carl or Michonne dies, they would have been a larger part of the season to maximize the impact.  Oh wait, that's what a good show would do.  This show does dry runs to fake deaths (Glenn) so that the real thing isn't as upsetting as it should have been.

I'm leaning towards it not being a death. If I play my mental game of what is the most annoying non-death thing it could be it would be this...

After a half season long siege/war and an episode of Carl/Michonne preparing to survive the night, the Survivors roll up and hand over Negan.  The stupid plan works. And nobody gets to kill Negan as a condition of him being handed over so they can all live in peace.  

[peach]

When Rick whispers "my mercy is greater than my wrath" in the premiere, he looks personally devastated, so I assume someone VERY close to him is dead.  And if he decides to give mercy instead of tearing a throat out with his teeth, I don't really know what the point of this show is.  

[HighMaintenance]

11 hours ago, peach said:

They might as well all die, then, anyway, as the frigging point of all this sacrifice is to make a future for Carl.

That's a LOT of people sacrificed for little one-eye's future! ;)  IMO, most of the folks who have died did so due to Rick's hubris and lack of long term strategy.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, peach said:

When Rick whispers "my mercy is greater than my wrath" in the premiere, he looks personally devastated, so I assume someone VERY close to him is dead.  And if he decides to give mercy instead of tearing a throat out with his teeth, I don't really know what the point of this show is.  

I'm thinking that Rick's mercy is why someone he loves is dead. So he's saying that his mercy is "greater" as in more destructive than his wrath in this case. And he is rueing that he was merciful instead of wrathful.

[SimoneS]

On 12/4/2017 at 9:08 AM, peach said:

When Rick whispers "my mercy is greater than my wrath" in the premiere, he looks personally devastated, so I assume someone VERY close to him is dead.  And if he decides to give mercy instead of tearing a throat out with his teeth, I don't really know what the point of this show is.  

I think that saving Negan will be what finally does the show in.

On 12/4/2017 at 5:56 AM, Gobi said:

Maybe the shocking moment will be - Negan shows up, and DOESN'T MONOLOGUE!

Ha. I suspect that you speak too soon. We only saw a few seconds, the episode is an hour and a half. I am expecting never ending monologuing from that asswipe.

Edited December 6, 2017 by SimoneS

[Anela]

6 hours ago, Gobi said:

Maybe the shocking moment will be - Negan shows up, and DOESN'T MONOLOGUE!

As long as he doesn't start miming everything... Although that would be easier to ignore. His muting himself. 

[Nashville]

6 hours ago, Gobi said:

Maybe the shocking moment will be - Negan shows up, and DOESN'T MONOLOGUE!

No way; it would end the series when absolutely 100% of the cast drops dead from a FUCKING HEART ATTACK.

 

11 hours ago, peach said:

That's my pet theory, that they could have him disappear and come back later as a recast actor if Chandler wants to quit.

Same here: Carl could get “disappeared” a number of ways - falls into a raging torrent and carried off far downstream, kidnapped by an undisclosed anonymous bunch of new baddies and toted off, etc.

In the event of such a “disappearance”, TPTB could play it out three possible ways:

1. Carl simply vanishes, to be reprised years later by either Chandler Riggs or a replacement.
2. Carl gets “Morganed” - a few times a season we get a sneak peek at whatever/wherever Carl is and what he’s doing, just to remind us he’s still rattling around Out There somewhere.
3. One or two pocket episodes a season - really just an expansion on #2, just to catch us up on all things Carl-related.

All this assuming, of course, that Riggs is actually looking to leave the show on at least a temporary basis to engage in  college or other pursuits.  If school is Riggs’ goal, shootings for #2 and #3 would probably be pretty easy to work around his college break schedule.

[CrazyDog]

Isn't that spoiler group pretty spot on? While the last timeI checked, it was still unconfirmed, they seem pretty clear something happens to Carl at the MSF. Though maybe the others don't find out until after the break. I keep hearing Riggs wanted off the show, but apart from maybe going to college, I don't know where that's coming from.

Still hoping it's a red herring and someone else *coughEugeneRosita* bites it. Carl going reduces a lot of hope from the show. I have little reason to care about baby JudithShane or even Maggie's baby, yet. Carl was the future and I always thought he'd outlive Rick.

ETA: at the very least, I would hope his death would have meaning, not just a random walker bite. If he does go, maybe he knows he's bit and goes out saving someone. Sigh. 

Edited December 4, 2017 by CrazyDog

[SnarkyTart]

14 minutes ago, CrazyDog said:

Isn't that spoiler group pretty spot on? While the last timeI checked, it was still unconfirmed, they seem pretty clear something happens to Carl at the MSF.

The spoiler group has always been spot on as far as I recall, but I don't think they said Carl buys the farm on the MSF.  Just that he dies in this season.  I agree with others that the death of Carl is probably too big of a plot point to be the MSF, maybe more like the finale episode.  Though I suppose they could leave Carl's fate as a cliffhanger in the MSF and take the next however many episodes until the finale to reveal that he's not hiding under a dumpster. 

I might have thought the shocking thing everyone will be talking about could be the scene from the spoiler group about Simon killing all the GPKs, except Jadis, then Jadis leading all her now-turned cultists into a meat grinder.  But, the spoiler group said they believe that happens in episode 10 or 11.  They did say there's been some controversy about exactly which episode it happens in, so maybe?   I could see Gimple et al making that scene so stomach-churningly, shockingly graphic and gross that people would be talking about it for a while.

[Anela]

I suppose I can't blame the kid for wanting to get off the show, considering how bad it is now - if it's true that he's going. He's made a lot of money, a nice cushion, and he's only eighteen. That must be a really nice feeling. 

[SimoneS]

2 hours ago, SnarkyTart said:

The spoiler group has always been spot on as far as I recall, but I don't think they said Carl buys the farm on the MSF.  

I double checked. TSDF is spoiling Carl dying in the MSF so next week we will know either way. I still think that he was bit when we last saw him and that will go out gun blazing to try to save everyone when Negan attacks Alexandria next week.

Edited December 5, 2017 by SimoneS

[Irishmaple]

Carl dies and I’m done. I can’t even imagine the show without him. He, Rick and Michonne are the pillars on which my love for this show was built. I don’t recognize the Rick you guys described in the threads. He went back to the dump to win those losers back? No. Just no. That is not the Rick who killed Joe with his teeth, who fed his son roast dog and his infant daughter mashed acorns. That is not the Rick who looked at Alexandria and said “yeah, we can take this”. That Rick I understood and supported. Battling to win untrustworthy allies? No. 

I respect Danai for nurturing her career and I love that she’s part of the MCU now, but I miss Michonne.

I know the premise is no-one is safe but I was all-in for Carl is the future. 

[peach]

You guys, I am obviously a sarcastic, cynical bitch...but if Carl dies, I am going to CRY REAL TEARS.  I literally just teared up thinking about it.
 

30 minutes ago, Irishmaple said:

He, Rick and Michonne are the pillars on which my love for this show was built.

Word.  Word to your mother. 

I also feel this way about Daryl and Carol (in the rare moments they let them have a scene together anymore).  When he showed up on her doorstep outside the Kingdom, and said "Why'd you leave?"  heart wrench.  But still lesser than the Carl-Rick-Michonne unit.

I hate Robert Kirkman.

Edited December 5, 2017 by peach

[SnarkyTart]

45 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I double checked. TSDF are spoiling Carl dying in the MSF so next week we will know either way. I still think that he was bit when we last saw him and that will go out gun blazing to try to save everyone when Negan attacks Alexandria next week.

Ahh, I didn't know it was spoiled to be in the MSF.  I hope you're right that he goes out with guns blazing, making it an obvious death.  Coral deserves a better ending than having it as a MSF cliffhanger and people going, "WTF?  Is Coral really dead or not?"

[peach]

One shoe and his gun on his leg like Han Solo.  WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!

 

[SimoneS]

If Carl does die, my heart will break for Rick and Michonne. They are going to be devastated. Andy and Danai will give us some great performances. And Poor Judith. She will never get to know her big brother. 

[peach]

I can't even imagine how unspoiled fans are going to take it.

[Gobi]

What will happen to his hat? Will we get a Carl's Hat mini-episode series to take the place of Red Machete?

[SnarkyTart]

2 minutes ago, Gobi said:

What will happen to his hat? Will we get a Carl's Hat mini-episode series to take the place of Red Machete?

Carl's Hat will be a crossover character on FtWD.  It will give acting lessons to Kim Dickens (Maddie).

[scrb]

Does Carl die in the comics?

[Smad]

Maybe I'm evil but I just don't care if Carl lives or dies. I might cry but those would be happy tears. It's about time Rick loses some family, he's gotten plenty of people (including children) killed with idiotic decisions. I love me some karmic justice. After all Maggie paid for the premature decision to attack the Saviors back in S6 (the deal with Hilltop) by losing Glenn.

However if Carl just disappeared and comes back after the time jump, recast with an actor who can actually act, I would be down for that.

[Smad]

14 hours ago, peach said:

When Rick whispers "my mercy is greater than my wrath" in the premiere, he looks personally devastated, so I assume someone VERY close to him is dead.  And if he decides to give mercy instead of tearing a throat out with his teeth, I don't really know what the point of this show is.  

Actually he said 'my mercy prevailed over my wrath'. That plus his devastated look could very well mean that it was the right call that he chose mercy but it came with great personal loss for him. I still say, about time for that. It's tiring watching everyone lose people because of him yet his children had invincible plot armor.

[mightysparrow]

I can't bear the thought of Carl dying.  There was a time when everything Rick did, he did for Carl.  Rick tore out a man's throat WITH HIS TEETH because Carl was in danger.  And if Michonne was still on this show (instead of this pod-person that Danai has been sending to wear her wig) Carl's death would send her over the edge.   The center of pod-Michonne's world is Rick's dick but that was never the case with MICHONNE.  Carl was the person that she was closest too.  We still don't know if Rick knows about the Peanut, but I guess it doesn't matter because Rick's dick has erased all traces of Michonne's future life.  No need for any pesky episodes focusing on Michonne's story, GOD FORBID!

And if what Rick's 'mercy...wrath' speech is a  result of Carl's death, it looks like Rick is making it ALL ABOUT HIM.  What a shock!

[ShadowHunter]

1 hour ago, Smad said:

Maybe I'm evil but I just don't care if Carl lives or dies. I might cry but those would be happy tears. It's about time Rick loses some family, he's gotten plenty of people (including children) killed with idiotic decisions. I love me some karmic justice. After all Maggie paid for the premature decision to attack the Saviors back in S6 (the deal with Hilltop) by losing Glenn.

However if Carl just disappeared and comes back after the time jump, recast with an actor who can actually act, I would be down for that.

I'm with you lol. I would love for something like this to happen so things would shake up a little. 

I still don't trust yet this is 100% accurate.  Though this site has a good track record.

Funny enough if Maggie dies instead that will do just fine.

[Smad]

5 minutes ago, ShadowHunter said:

I'm with you lol. I would love for something like this to happen so things would shake up a little. 

I still don't trust yet this is 100% accurate.  Though this site has a good track record.

People act as if Carl dying is the be all and end all because Carl is the future. There are plenty children in this world still, not to mention Rick still has another child. But I don't think the show has the balls to kill Carl off for good. At most he will disappear but everyone will think he is dead. Then he will be back after the time jump at some point. And maybe he will become a smarter person during that time (one can only hope), lose the hat and get a damn haircut.

But I just don't care one way or another. I've been waiting Seasons for some karmic justice where Rick is concerned. The people around him constantly lose loved ones because of his stupidity while he and his kids remain unscathed.

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, scrb said:

Does Carl die in the comics?

He is still alive.

[Anela]

2 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

I can't bear the thought of Carl dying.  There was a time when everything Rick did, he did for Carl.  Rick tore out a man's throat WITH HIS TEETH because Carl was in danger.  And if Michonne was still on this show (instead of this pod-person that Danai has been sending to wear her wig) Carl's death would send her over the edge.   The center of pod-Michonne's world is Rick's dick but that was never the case with MICHONNE.  Carl was the person that she was closest too.  We still don't know if Rick knows about the Peanut, but I guess it doesn't matter because Rick's dick has erased all traces of Michonne's future life.  No need for any pesky episodes focusing on Michonne's story, GOD FORBID!

And if what Rick's 'mercy...wrath' speech is a  result of Carl's death, it looks like Rick is making it ALL ABOUT HIM.  What a shock!

I remember that one ending of an episode, where michonne tracks them down at a house. Rick looks through the peephole, laughs, and says to Carl, "it's for you". I loved that. :) 

[rmontro]

If Carl does die, that's a bigger death than Glenn's IMO, because everyone has always said that if anybody on the show was safe, it was Carl.

[HighMaintenance]

12 hours ago, Smad said:

People act as if Carl dying is the be all and end all because Carl is the future. There are plenty children in this world still, not to mention Rick still has another child.

Wait a minute!  Rick has a spare kid that he just picked up from the Savior outpost.  He can afford to lose one.  At least he can teach Judith and Carlotta (I like that name for the new baby better) to stay the hell in the house!

[Smad]

1 minute ago, HighMaintenance said:

Wait a minute!  Rick has a spare kid that he just picked up from the Savior outpost.  He can afford to lose one.  At least he can teach Judith and Carlotta (I like that name for the new baby better) to stay the hell in the house!

Don't count on it. Everybody else raises his children but him. Probably a good thing though, since him apparently never really being a father to Carl pre-Lori's death was one reason why Carl was always sneaking out. Lori pawned it off on others during the ZA and Rick barely remembered he had a son outside of conversations with his wife. Always too busy with 'stuff and thangs'. So all the non-Rick people raising his 'daughters' can probably teach them properly what it means to 'stay in the house'.

[Anela]

1 hour ago, HighMaintenance said:

Wait a minute!  Rick has a spare kid that he just picked up from the Savior outpost.  He can afford to lose one.  At least he can teach Judith and Carlotta (I like that name for the new baby better) to stay the hell in the house!

You don't think Judith will have her, "dude, I'm outta here" moments? :) my sister was worse than Carl, at times. Girls sneak off, too. 

[Nashville]

33 minutes ago, Anela said:

You don't think Judith will have her, "dude, I'm outta here" moments? :) my sister was worse than Carl, at times. Girls sneak off, too. 

...and they’re generally less clumsy about it.

Said the father of two daughters.

[Enero]

18 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

I can't bear the thought of Carl dying.  There was a time when everything Rick did, he did for Carl.  Rick tore out a man's throat WITH HIS TEETH because Carl was in danger.  And if Michonne was still on this show (instead of this pod-person that Danai has been sending to wear her wig) Carl's death would send her over the edge.   The center of pod-Michonne's world is Rick's dick but that was never the case with MICHONNE.  Carl was the person that she was closest too.  We still don't know if Rick knows about the Peanut, but I guess it doesn't matter because Rick's dick has erased all traces of Michonne's future life.  No need for any pesky episodes focusing on Michonne's story, GOD FORBID!

 

Thank you for this. I LMAO ? when I read the bolded, but it’s so true. At least when I watched the show last - back in February (?). Michonne was a disappointing shadow of her former self.

Anyway, if Carl dies her role will be to comfort Rick and give him a consolation baby. ? The latter being what I’ve seen many Rick/Michonne fans expressed they’d like to see. I loved Rick/Michonne through S6 and for a moment here and there in S7.

However, if they make badass Michonne barefoot and pregnant that would be almost as devastating and dumb as Carl’s death. IMHO.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Enero

[Smad]

I'm not keeping up with spoilers but has there been any word as to whether Negan and Carol will meet face to face at some point?

[festivus]

2 hours ago, Enero said:

However, if they make badass Michonne barefoot and pregnant that would be almost as devastating and dumb as Carl’s death. IMHO

What needs to happen is that Michonne needs to take Judith and go. Pick up Carol and Zeke on the way, and start a whole new show. Then I can stop watching this piece of crap. Oh and of course, pick up some new writers and a new showrunner on the way. 

[peach]

22 hours ago, Smad said:

People act as if Carl dying is the be all and end all because Carl is the future. There are plenty children in this world still, not to mention Rick still has another child.

Sure there are other children, but I've only watched one of them grow up for the last 8 years.  And bond with Michonne.

 

20 hours ago, Anela said:

I remember that one ending of an episode, where michonne tracks them down at a house. Rick looks through the peephole, laughs, and says to Carl, "it's for you". I loved that. :) 

Loved that, too.  I also loved it when they were getting patted down at Terminus, and the guy sort of playfully said to Carl, "do you deserve it?" And Carl stone cold says "Yes."

I also kind of loved it when he threw Rick's sheriff star in the dirt that one time.  lol 

[SimoneS]

22 hours ago, peach said:

Sure there are other children, but I've only watched one of them grow up for the last 8 years.  And bond with Michonne.

Exactly. We have watched Carl grow up. I may not love Carl, but some of my favorite moments include him; his tearful reaction to seeing his father for the first time, saying goodbye and shooting his mother, bonding with Michonne in Clear and throughout season 4, trying to be grown up and failing in After, and attempting to get through to Ron. And I will never forget when Chandler's voice changed.

If Carl dies, it is a hug loss and not just because of Rick and Michonne's heartbreak, but because it means that most of children who we have met and who have grown up in the Zombie Apocalypse haven't made it. We already lost Duane, Sophia, Mika, Lizzie, Tara's niece, and the other Woodbury children. If Carl can't make it with his training and support, it is a long shot for Maggie's baby, Judith, Gracie, and the other children out there. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by SimoneS

[SnarkyTart]

From the Spoiling Dead Fans Army facebook page:

Quote

Q&A Episode 8.8 “How Its Gotta Be”

Now that we have your attention, buttercups... After careful consideration we have decided that we will not be providing a Q&A or any spoilery bits this week.

AMC has been hyping a very shocking moment that will occur in this episode. I think most of us know this almost certainly means a death. We invite you to draw your own conclusions on what will happen. Review the spoiler journal, filming and discussion threads, and take what bits you ...can and try to put the pieces together.

We have our reasons for doing this which we’ll share after the episode. No, it has nothing to do with any legal matters. We will not be answering any questions about episode 8 from this point on. Sorry buttercups, but bribes of liquor and pancakes will not change our minds.

We know this is disappointing for thousands of people that depend on us, and we fully expect some backlash. We're ready to take the heat.

For now, this is How It's Gotta Be.

-ShinyFirefly & NinjaPancake

Jeez!  Nothing like this has ever happened before.  Discuss!

I know they got into some trouble with AMC when they spoiled the Abraham and Glenn deaths, but they say that's not why they're making this choice now and I believe them.  I would say that Carl is dead as fuck.  Even though that's the biggest death in the history of the show, that alone doesn't seem enough to account for their self-imposed silence.  Now I'm wondering what else is in store?  Maybe the MSF is when the show does the time jump?  Or maybe more than only Carl is going to die in this episode?  I don't know.  At least with this kind of sort of heads up of something Very Big, I can make the decision not to watch it live.  That's the choice I made for the Abraham/Glenn death episode, which I have not watched to this day.  And I never will.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Ouch.

[Mnemosyne]

18 minutes ago, SnarkyTart said:

From the Spoiling Dead Fans Army facebook page:

Jeez!  Nothing like this has ever happened before.  Discuss!

I know they got into some trouble with AMC when they spoiled the Abraham and Glenn deaths, but they say that's not why they're making this choice now and I believe them.  I would say that Carl is dead as fuck.  Even though that's the biggest death in the history of the show, that alone doesn't seem enough to account for their self-imposed silence.  Now I'm wondering what else is in store?  Maybe the MSF is when the show does the time jump?  Or maybe more than only Carl is going to die in this episode?  I don't know.  At least with this kind of sort of heads up of something Very Big, I can make the decision not to watch it live.  That's the choice I made for the Abraham/Glenn death episode, which I have not watched to this day.  And I never will.

I skimmed some of the comments on the Q&A thread- yikes. People are really pissed at the mods over there. IDK why they aren't choosing to post it, but they don't deserve some of that abuse.

[SnarkyTart]

1 minute ago, Mnemosyne said:

I skimmed some of the comments on the Q&A thread- yikes. People are really pissed at the mods over there. IDK why they aren't choosing to post it, but they don't deserve some of that abuse.

Agree 1000%.  Internet people can be so weird, abusive, and entitled.  Truly pathetic.

[catrox14]

Could they be killing off Rick and Carl? Here me out. That dream sequence thing. Could that be Rick's dying thoughts...hoping he's growing old with Michonne and Judith and Carl? But he's dying instead?

[Mr. Sparkle]

11 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Could they be killing off Rick and Carl? Here me out. That dream sequence thing. Could that be Rick's dying thoughts...hoping he's growing old with Michonne and Judith and Carl? But he's dying instead?

I doubt it, but that would certainly be shocking! 

14 minutes ago, SnarkyTart said:

Agree 1000%.  Internet people can be so weird, abusive, and entitled.  Truly pathetic.

I'm not in the TSDF Army group (I just found out about it) and I'm not one to curse out someone on the internet, but unless they have a strong reason, such as a threat of getting sued, I think it's a bit lame for a spoiler site not to post spoilers. 

ETA: I just reread their post and they said it's not due to a legal action. I'll take them at their word, but it seems they're doing it for some "moral" reason. Again, I'm a little annoyed, but life goes on. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Superclam

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, Superclam said:

'm not in the TSDF Army group (I just found out about it) and I'm not one to curse out someone on the internet, but unless they have a strong reason, such as a threat of getting sued, I think it's a bit lame for a spoiler site not to post spoilers. 

If they get ad revenue and traffic because they post spoilers, they kind of AREN'T doing what people go to them for...so I get the annoyance. The vitriol is a bit much though.

[peach]

Dammit, I had a feeling they would hold out on this episode!

[Mr. Sparkle]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

If they get ad revenue and traffic because they post spoilers, they kind of AREN'T doing what people go to them for...so I get the annoyance. The vitriol is a bit much though.

I haven't seen it, but I'm sure it's over the top. People get a little too worked up over TV shows, but here I am posting on a TV snark site about a TV show, so...