Spoilers and Speculation

[nodorothyparker]

1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

You know, I'm kind of glad that that lying, cowardly weasel Gregory survived.  At least he knows what he is.  In that way, I think he and Eugene are similar.  I haven't read the comics to know if they survived, but they damn sure are doing what they can to stick around.

I have a small appreciation for both of them.  Gregory is often written so high-pitched and over the top he might as well be a soap opera villain but he's consistent in that he's not a fighter and isn't going to get interminably bogged down trying to convince himself or anyone else that he is anything other than what he is.  Eugene knows both his skill set and his limitations and works within both.  If you asked him I don't doubt he'd tell you he's a survivor rather than a hero, which makes him more self aware than half our cast.

[SimoneS]

Ha! Told ya Daryl would kill Morales. Jesus is an idiot. Those saviors will escape and kill them in their sleep. 

[Anela]

Not another one leaving the group. 

I still haven't watched this last episode. I just haven't been in the mood for it. 

[Ocean Chick]

I, at least, am glad to know what happened to Morales and his family.  So I have no problem with his "one and done" appearance.  What I really want to know is why the sudden "no kill" shite for Jesus?  He knows none of the Saviors would held the same standards to him or anyone he loves.  It's just crazy and dumb.  And Jesus has never been shown to be dumb before.

[festivus]

This is what it's come to; I'm reading spoilers now. I never did before* because I wanted to be surprised when something happened, now I just want to know if there's anything I need to wake up for. It's sad.

 

*Except for who got the bat. I needed to prepare myself if it was Glenn. 

[Gobi]

Seems that Daryll and Jesus have differing opinions on how to deal with prisoners.

[Janimo]

If they kill off Carl. I would imagine that it's because Chandler is beginning college in the fall.....at least that's what I think I've read somewhere.

[peach]

12 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

What's going on at the Hilltop?

A giant shitshow. First, the group of Savior prisoners being led to the Hilltop by Jesus, Tara, Morgan, etc. is attacked by a horde along the highway. Several Saviors try to escape, and Morgan ends up killing one of them. This sparks a huge fight between Jesus and Morgan, and Morgan ends up leaving the group and going on his own. Then Gregory shows back up at the Hilltop with his tail between his legs. Enid wants to exile him. Maggie finally has mercy and let's him back in.

Just no.

[SimoneS]

Gawd, another character goes wandering off for no good reason. Predictably, we can expect a bottle episode featuring Morgan. Of course, we have another character becoming inexplicably anti-killing in Jesus so that the show can manufacture conflict. At least, it isn't a black man yet again. The show is becoming ridiculously predictable.

[peach]

The real world is more brutal and accepting of death and destruction RIGHT NOW than the people on this show, on the razor's edge of survival.

[peach]

Looks like they're teasing it out so the audience doesn't freak out as much if/when Carl dies.  An outlet like TV Guide is thinly disguised promotional material for the shows they talk about.
http://www.tvguide.com/news/the-walking-dead-carl-dying-soon/

[SimoneS]

7 hours ago, peach said:

The real world is more brutal and accepting of death and destruction RIGHT NOW than the people on this show, on the razor's edge of survival.

I am not for killing everyone, but over the last three years or so, the show refuses to let the characters make logical decisions about who should be killed or to make half way decent decisions about killing people. How could Jesus think that it is a good idea to lock up the Saviors in the middle of the Hilltop, much less let them live? If they escaped, they could murder them all. Are there some Saviors who should be given a second chance? Yes, those women who Negan rapes and likes to call his "wives," for one, but most of those people are untrustworthy and cannot be allowed to live. If there was a prison, they could lock them up, but with such limited food around they cannot feed them so killing them quickly is better than letting them starve to death and eat other.

Also, the individual characters who somehow magically manage to survive on their own in this brutal terrifying world is getting beyond ridiculous.

 

7 hours ago, peach said:

Looks like they're teasing it out so the audience doesn't freak out as much if/when Carl dies.  An outlet like TV Guide is thinly disguised promotional material for the shows they talk about.
http://www.tvguide.com/news/the-walking-dead-carl-dying-soon/

Ever since TSDF forum posted the spumor about Carl's death other media have been picking it up. I don't think that the show is behind these columns rather it is probably ticked out that the news got out so soon and they cannot control it.

Edited November 3, 2017 by SimoneS

[Gobi]

I agree that it looks like they're going to use Carl's death to justify (somehow) Rick not killing Negan. I know Negan lives in the comics (for a while anyway, I don't know how long), but I don't know if Rick made it as clear in the comics that he was going to kill him. And how does Rick stop everyone else (Maggie, Darryl, Dwight, etc.) from killing Negan? Rick isn't the only one who wants Negan dead.

On the bright side, looks like we'll have another Negan-free episode.

[SimoneS]

11 minutes ago, Gobi said:

I agree that it looks like they're going to use Carl's death to justify (somehow) Rick not killing Negan. I know Negan lives in the comics (for a while anyway, I don't know how long), but I don't know if Rick made it as clear in the comics that he was going to kill him. And how does Rick stop everyone else (Maggie, Darryl, Dwight, etc.) from killing Negan? Rick isn't the only one who wants Negan dead.

It is so preposterous that they actually think that they can let Negan live and give him some type of redemption story. I am giving the show this season, but if Negan is going to be around next season, I am stepping back again. I will pop in to see Rick and Michonne occasionally, but I just can't...

[tv echo]

Ask Ausiello: Spoilers on New Girl, Grey's Anatomy, Big Little Lies, Flash, Walking Dead, Will & Grace and More
By Michael Ausiello / November 3 2017, 2:07 PM PDT
http://tvline.com/2017/11/03/greys-anatomy-season-15-meredith-love-interest-new-doctor/

Quote

Question: Is Gabriel dead on The Walking Dead? —Jeremy
Ausiello: Although, when last we saw the preacherman, Negan was instructing him to slip into his “s—tin’ pants,” whether he’s actually used the garment for the final time remains a question mark, even after this Sunday’s “Monsters” outing. Decidedly less up in the air following the action-packed episode is the fate of at least one other character. The hour also makes clearer the battle lines that are being drawn not between the Saviors and the allied forces but between the allied forces and each other.

[peach]

On 11/3/2017 at 1:46 PM, SimoneS said:

Ever since TSDF forum posted the spumor about Carl's death other media have been picking it up. I don't think that the show is behind these columns rather it is probably ticked out that the news got out so soon and they cannot control it.

Chandler Riggs and his father have both tweeted out comments that have caused a lot of speculation, which always surprises me.  I'm sure they have to sign lengthy NDA's.  In the past I've wondered if the dad wasn't trying to use it as leverage or something.  I don't know. 

I honestly would rather see Carl's character go missing for a while, and then be recast as an older version of himself after one of their irritating time jumps, than have him be killed.  I mean, he grows a foot between commercial breaks as it is.  Why not be older and someone else?  lol 
 

 

22 hours ago, Gobi said:

Rick isn't the only one who wants Negan dead.

I would think Michonne would be very interested in doing it after the arm chopping incident.  Carl DYING would certainly do it.  She devoted herself to getting rid of the Governor. Where is that Michonne?  (besides Marvel Studios, of course.)

[AwesomO4000]

More filming in Griffin:

Lost of filming all over downtown Griffin last week (Wed - Fri). I don't know how it will fit in or when filming now would figure into the show, but a lot of the fight scenes in the first and second episodes were filmed in downtown Griffin, too, so I don't know if these will be more flashbacks or a new battle or what.

Also they were filming Friday on campus again at the "bullet factory." They got up onto the roof of the building I work in and flew drones around - likely filming outside the "bullet factory."

[Ocean Chick]

Better go stock up on Kleenex before Sunday's episode - we lose our favorite house pet, and a bunch of red shirts.  But Action Carol is back in fighting form, so that's good.

[Gobi]

3 minutes ago, Ocean Chick said:

Better go stock up on Kleenex before Sunday's episode - we lose our favorite house pet, and a bunch of red shirts.  But Action Carol is back in fighting form, so that's good.

Shiva or Carl?

[nodorothyparker]

Shiva.  Per TSDF Army:

Quote

 

Q&A Episode 8.4 "Some Guy"

1) Can you tell us about the aftermath of the attack involving the Kingdomers?

When we finally are taken to the scene, we see that they're all dead. Bodies are scattered everywhere, some missing limbs and some with huge holes from the gunshot blasts. Then finally he extends his hand from the heap of bodies of the Kingdomers who had rushed to protect him. He's been shot in the leg pretty badly, but he's alive. He's got the added problem of all the dead Kingdomers reanimating. He tries to defend himself as best he can, but he doesn't have a gun and he can't even stand up on his leg. Finally, 3 or 4 other Kingdomers show up and save him.

2) What happens after they save him? Do they escape?

A nerdy looking Savior with big glasses shows up and kills the remaining Kingdomers. He takes Ezekiel hostage. He goes on and on about how Ezekiel is just bullshit, that he's not a real "King" and that if they just take away that cat, he'll be nothing. 
Eventually Jerry comes along and slices this Savior right in half!

3) In the sneak peek, we see Carol hiding from some Saviors inside a building. Can you tell us more about what happens in that scene?

That building is the where the snipers were holed up in. Carol is a such a boss and takes out all those sons-of-bitches!! However, that's not all of them, and reinforcements show up. Carol manages to escape and continues to pursue and engage the remaining Saviors.

She later realizes they have the guns they're after, and so she stays there and fights them on her own. There are only 2 left alive, but then she sees Jerry and Ezekiel behind a locked fence being surrounded by walkers. So she goes to them and helps. Those are the 2 guys that escape in the jeep.

4) Who dies in this episode and how? Is anyone hurt?

Daniel, and every other Kingdomer in Ezekiel's group with the exception of Jerry and Carol. Including Shiva. Shiva saves Ezekiel, Carol and Jerry when they're surrounded by walkers.

5) When in the episode does Shiva die?

It's towards the end. Carol goes back to rescue Jerry and Ezekiel but the walkers are closing in. Ezekiel tells them to just leave him since he's just slowing them down because of his leg wound. But Carol and Jerry refuse. They're surrounded, and that's when Shiva shows up. (TSDF screams in joy and then howls in despair.)

6) Who are the men that Rick and Daryl go after on the road? What happens with them?

They are the remaining Saviors at the outpost that Carol had engaged but had to abandon because Ezekiel and Jerry were in trouble. Rick and Daryl shoot them, run the jeep off the road and get their guns.

7) How does the episode end?

Jerry, Carol, and Ezekiel return to the Kingdom and are met by all of the women and children. He seems completely broken, and can't even address his people because everyone's dead.

* Bonus: *

- Jerry loses his weapon in this episode. He breaks it when he tries to use it to break through a big chain on a fence

- Ezekiel keeps wanting Carol and Jerry to leave him behind but Carol says, "Nope. You don't get to do that."

- This episode is focused on the Kingdom people. The only other scene is a short scene with Rick, Daryl, and the two Saviors.

 

 

So the curse of merely coming into contact with Rick's crew strikes again and a group I've mostly enjoyed are now mostly dead.  They've been telegraphing pretty hard that all of Ezekiel's hubris was going to lead to something very bad, and the lion's, er tiger's share of the blame should fall squarely on him.   But for what feels like the 42nd time now, if you see Rick roll up even anywhere near your community, run.  Just run.  Something will conveniently fail or you'll conveniently do something stupid that gets you all killed even if you've all been surviving just fine up until now.

[scrb]

Or they decided they didn't want to pay for the CGI any more.

[nodorothyparker]

I suppose this is where we could speculate on whether the rest of the CGI going forward will continue to be so junkyard backdrop, flickering deer terrible now that they're now longer expounding so much in the way of resources to render the big cat.

[Anela]

Great. I don't want to lose the tiger. 

[Ohwell]

Jerry!

[nodorothyparker]

At least we get to keep Jerry.  That's something, I guess.

[Gobi]

Not gonna lie, I'll miss Shiva more than Eric, ridiculous as it was having a tame tiger around and well fed in the ZA. 

[Ohwell]

Well one good thing is maybe Ezekiel will STFU from now on.

[SnarkyTart]

4 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

A nerdy looking Savior with big glasses shows up and kills the remaining Kingdomers. He takes Ezekiel hostage. He goes on and on about how Ezekiel is just bullshit, that he's not a real "King" and that if they just take away that cat, he'll be nothing. 
Eventually Jerry comes along and slices this Savior right in half!

See, this nerdy savior is another guy who dies because he's too busy monologuing instead of taking action.  Thank goodness Jerry shows up to put a fitting end to yet another Neganing.  Maybe Jerry can join Daryl in their quest to kill anyone with the monologue virus.

[nodorothyparker]

9 minutes ago, Gobi said:

Not gonna lie, I'll miss Shiva more than Eric, ridiculous as it was having a tame tiger around and well fed in the ZA. 

Even after this week's big death scene, I had to take a moment to remember who Eric was.  That might just be a clue the character was never presented in any way to be important enough to matter to us as viewers.

[peach]

Okay, well, I'll have to watch this one because I'm always down with Carol being a bad bitch.  No surprise about most of the Kingdom ppl getting killed, what with the gigantic anvils falling around Ezekiel and NOT ONE OF OUR RANKS!!! 

[SimoneS]

Great, another monologuing Savior. At least, Jerry is still alive and the ridiculous CGI pet tiger is dead. And best of all no Negan.

Edited November 9, 2017 by SimoneS

[Ocean Chick]

I'm hoping that the loss of his beloved tiger and almost all his warriors will jump start Zeke into speaking like a normal person again.  That, or Carol beats him 'round the lug'ole (ear) until he stops with the dramatic renderings.

[CrazyDog]

I will actually miss Daniel. I know he's barely been on the show, but he saved Carol, and represented something good at the time. And he's cute, so there's that.

Thank goodness Jerry makes it. Still no Negan and Gabriel, huh? CGI or no, I won't be able to watch Shiva go. Make fun of me, I don't care :) I couldn't watch the deer, or the dogs, and still can't rewatch Rick's horse from S1 getting eaten.

[festivus]

I hope Zeke will shave his head in grief for Shiva.

[JackONeill]

30 minutes ago, festivus said:

I hope Zeke will shave his head in grief for Shiva.

Or, at least, Zeke will shave Daryl’s head. (What? Grief can cause a person to act strangely.)

[tawny411]

16 hours ago, CrazyDog said:

I will actually miss Daniel. I know he's barely been on the show, but he saved Carol, and represented something good at the time. And he's cute, so there's that.

Thank goodness Jerry makes it. Still no Negan and Gabriel, huh? CGI or no, I won't be able to watch Shiva go. Make fun of me, I don't care :) I couldn't watch the deer, or the dogs, and still can't rewatch Rick's horse from S1 getting eaten.

Same here. I won't watch Shiva die. I can't watch any of the animals attacked. I'm glad Jerry is still alive, but I'd trade him for Shiva. He probably won't last much longer anyway.

[Spartan Girl]

Goddammit, I knew it. I KNEW I shouldn't get attached to another animal on this show.

NO. MORE. ANIMALS. I AM BEGGING YOU.

[mightysparrow]

On 11/4/2017 at 5:41 PM, peach said:

Chandler Riggs and his father have both tweeted out comments that have caused a lot of speculation, which always surprises me.  I'm sure they have to sign lengthy NDA's.  In the past I've wondered if the dad wasn't trying to use it as leverage or something.  I don't know. 

I honestly would rather see Carl's character go missing for a while, and then be recast as an older version of himself after one of their irritating time jumps, than have him be killed.  I mean, he grows a foot between commercial breaks as it is.  Why not be older and someone else?  lol 
 

 

I would think Michonne would be very interested in doing it after the arm chopping incident.  Carl DYING would certainly do it.  She devoted herself to getting rid of the Governor. Where is that Michonne?  (besides Marvel Studios, of course.)

THAT Michonne is long gone.  The Michonne we have now is a shadow of the original.  The only positive thing is that, after bringing an iconic character to life, Danai is off to MUCH greener pastures.

[Juliegirlj]

They have watered down the show with so many characters that I do not care about that it has soured me on the whole show. For me the best thing about the show was the character development and I grew fond of the characters. Now I have zero investment in any of them. Sure, I'll watch it now and then but not like before when I anxiously awaited each episode. ??

[peach]

We were speculating on another thread about who Some Guy is, but after re-reading this episode summary, I'm guessing it means King Ezekiel loses his people and his tiger, so now he's just Some Guy again. 

[tawny411]

Not sure I can bear to watch tonight. I'm more bothered about Shiva than I was Glenn. 

[Dobian]

My prediction for next week is that after this week's debacle and the fact that next week is a Negan-centric episode, expect the ratings to dip down another million.

[SnarkyTart]

After one of the spoilers dropped the tip that there was a character we would end up hating even more than we do Negan (unimaginable!), I've been waiting to find out that Jesus is a betrayer.  Given his name, it would be a logical flip in the storyline that also fits with calling the worst community of survivors yet discovered The Saviors.  I don't think the spoiler would have been talking about Gregory, as we already know he's a slime, so what would surprise us about him?  Also don't think it's Eugene, because it wouldn't be surprising for this character to do something despicable to save himself.  On the other hand, Jesus has turned into a total weirdo with no explanation as to why.  So, Jesus as the betrayer and a double-agent for the Saviors is my speculation.  Maybe even Jesus as the son of Negan (in a further flip of the Christian story of Jesus as the son of god).

[CrazyDog]

I kind of think that the most hated character will just turn out to be whoever kills Carl (or gets him killed). Which could really be anyone, if it actually happens. I'm still personally camping out in denialville on that spoiler. I really hope it's nothing to do with Jesus, because he and Aaron need to happen. But someone acting as a spy for the saviors would certainly make sense.

Edited November 15, 2017 by CrazyDog

[Gobi]

Maybe it's the guy with the mustache (Simon?), Negan's second-in-command, and he kills Carl.

[nodorothyparker]

From TSDF Army page.  Q&A Episode 8.5 "The Big Scary U"

Quote

 

1.) How are Negan and Father G getting along inside the trailer? What do they talk about?

They talk about being weak and being strong, and Gabriel admits that his biggest fear is dying without some purpose. Gabriel eventually asks Negan to give him his confession so that he can be absolved of his sins in the event that they don't make it out of there alive. After Gabriel finally tells Negan the story of his getting his entire congregation killed, Negan gives Gabe his confession and tells him the story of his first wife -- his only wife-- Lucille. It pretty much matches up with the backstory from "Here's Negan".

2.) Do they escape the trailer? How? Where do they go?

Yes. They pull the "guts" trick, cover themselves with walker goo, and manuever themselves through the horde back to inside of the Sanctuary. Once inside the Sanctuary, Negan locks up Father G in a cell like Daryl.

3.) Is there any conflict amongst the Saviors or workers about the current situation at the Sanctuary?

Yeah, they end up cutting power to the lower level (the factory level) of the Sanctuary in order to preserve power and resources. In response, the workers move to the upper level. They are met by Simon, Dwight, Gavin, and Regina. A riot is about to break out, which forces Regina to shoot one of them.

4.) Does Simon take a leadership role during Negan's absence? What is he up to in this episode?

Simon tries to, but it doesn't work very well. He can't seem to lead the group, and the Saviors just end up bickering amongst themselves.

5.) What is Eugene up to? Is he still drinking the Negan kool-aid?

Yep, as far as we know! After Negan finally makes it back inside the Sanctuary, he puts Eugene in charge of figuring a way out of the Sanctuary before they run out of food, water and supplies. Negan doesn't seem to suspect Eugene of being the mole, even though Simon, Gavin, and Regina seem to.

6.) Do the Saviors suspect Dwight has changed sides and is working with Rick?

No, the Saviors don't suspect it, but I think Eugene has figured it out. It is revealed that someone stole some guns from the armory and left them for the workers in a brown backpack. Eugene notices that there is a smudge of red paint on the backpack, and he remembers that same red paint Dwight had used to paint his wooden soldiers.

7.) What are Rick and Daryl doing in this episode?

They retrieve the guns from the wrecked jeep from last week, and besides the guns, there's also a box of explosives. Daryl wants to use the explosives to go and blow the Sanctuary to kingdom-come, but Rick says absolutely not because all of the innocent workers would be killed too. They end up getting into a huge fight, and Daryl parts ways with Rick at the end. But Daryl doesn't get his explosives. While they were beating each other up, the jeep explodes because of a gasoline leak and all those explosives go up with it.

8.) Can you describe the fight scene between Rick and Daryl?

Rick tackles Daryl after he grabs the explosives, won't listen to Rick, and starts to leave. Rick grabs the bag of explosives, and throws them back into the jeep, and they continue to fight. Daryl does finally realize the jeep is about to blow and pulls Rick away just in time, but he still goes his own way at the end. Rick seems to be headed to visit the Heapsters.

BONUS

- At the very end you are led to believe that Father G is very sick and quite possibly had been bitten. But I think he's pulling a fast one. It goes back to what he was praying for at the beginning of the episode. That he doesn't want to die without fruition or without some purpose.

 

 

Show, I'm trying to hang in here.  I really am.  No one wants you to pull out of this multi-season spiral more than I do.  But to have Talky McTalkerson and Father Pee Pants suddenly remember the zombie guts camo trick after multiple episodes where people that we know know how to do that apparently never thought of it?  Rick beating his bestie with the mercy stick to go running off to the same people who have already double crossed him and SHOT him once?  Am I really supposed to be rooting for someone that dumb?

[Ohwell]

I hope Rick is going back to the Heapsters to get revenge; otherwise, it doesn't make any sense.

[raven]

9 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

They end up getting into a huge fight, and Daryl parts ways with Rick at the end. But Daryl doesn't get his explosives. While they were beating each other up, the jeep explodes because of a gasoline leak and all those explosives go up with it.

Oh for fuck's sake.  Really????  This show, I swear.

[festivus]

This episode sounds boring. Probably will snooze through most of it. Maybe I'll wake up when Daryl and Rick break up.

[SimoneS]

Just like that Negan appears and the show goes to shit. In what on planet would Rick and Daryl ever fight, much less physically? And Daryl leaving Rick, give me a break? There isn't anyone on this show more obedient and under Rick's control than Daryl.

So now we have both Daryl and Morgan off on their own. Of course, they will magically survive on their own. 

Btw, Gabriel is an Episcopalian priest. We don't practice the confession of sins to a priest. What losers!

I think that I am giving this one a miss. Too bad. I liked the last two episodes.

Edited November 16, 2017 by SimoneS