S37: Natalie Cole

[Netta Leven]

Hi.  I'm the requisite older woman who'll probably be out early.

Between being fifty-six and (though I hesitate to add it) being black, I can see her being ostracized and being tossed in the early weeks.  Especially if she doesn't gel well with her tribe.

[LadyChatts]

On 9/6/2018 at 6:40 PM, Netta Leven said:

Hi.  I'm the requisite older woman who'll probably be out early.

Between being fifty-six and (though I hesitate to add it) being black, I can see her being ostracized and being tossed in the early weeks.  Especially if she doesn't gel well with her tribe.

That and she may get the helpless older contestant, angry black woman edit.  Being part of the Goliath tribe, unfortuanetly I think she might have a hard time fitting in with that crowd.  I kind of like her, so hopefully yhey can pull of some challenge wins until a tribe swap, or long enough for someone else to do something stupid.

This from her pet peeves:

Quote

when people sign up for things and are not fully committed, thereby negatively impacting results. 

I take it she won't like quitters, challenge throwers, or the lazy 20 somethings she's going to be stuck with on her tribe (just a hunch on the lazy part).  I'm trying to figure out how the hell some of those people qualify as "Goliath" from Probst's definition.

[KimberStormer]

On ‎9‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 3:40 PM, Netta Leven said:

Hi.  I'm the requisite older woman who'll probably be out early.

But her name is Natalie, so she's going to be in FTC.  Or will those two things cancel each other out and leave her a weird and unsatisfying merge boot like we've had a lot of lately?  (Except for Chris, which was a classic and hilarious merge boot: Virgin Jessica, Hali, Michelle, Kass, people even I'm like ".....who?" about like Kelly Remington and Julie McGee...)

[KimberStormer]

Fourth is nothing to sneeze at!

[ByaNose]

I would like to see an Natalie's interview after the first episode. It was just editing that made me look like I just standing around and barking orders. LOL!!! Yeah, if that's what shes like in real life.....Yikes! I've had bosses like that. They aren't horrible people but in a work enviroment they are just like she was. Just a barrel of laughs to be around. NOT!!!

[LadyChatts]

My opinion of her didn't change after the premiere.  She came across pretty much how I expected (whether that's how she really is or just how the show likes to edit I don't know, I'll say its a combo of the two).  Of course I despise the whole Goliath tribe, or at least the ones we've seen, and since she's clearly the underdog I hope she pulls it out.  I mean, way to be unique, all you young fit 20 and early 30 somethings voting out the bossy older black lady first.

Maybe with Goliath winning it'll buy her some time and shift the target elsewhere.  However, it seems like for now the young girls and hot cop are together, and who knows who else they have.  I don't see that alliance fracturing.  Again, can't be original this time.

[KimberStormer]

I actually got a different impression of Natalie than most.  I'll probably eat my words next week, but I somehow got a Lisa Welchel edit kind of vibe, like she's in early danger but will make it through to be a powerhouse.  I don't have any specific reason to think so, but I could sort of see a kind of stern charisma, like I could totally believe her employees love her, perhaps after hating her at first.  Maybe she reminded me of my Belarusian sewing teacher who would give you an F if it wasn't right, because why should you get any credit for effort if it's wrong?  We were scandalized and outraged by this at first, but we adored her in the end.

[neh]

BUT what is Natalie'a physical condition? Can she compete competently in challenges?  Can she handle puzzles? Is she up for the psychological elements of the game? The editing just showed Natalie skullking around, glaring at people. Socially is she more adapt than that? I personally think she is a goner but I am hoping to be surprised.

[peachmangosteen]

4 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

I actually got a different impression of Natalie than most.  I'll probably eat my words next week, but I somehow got a Lisa Welchel edit kind of vibe, like she's in early danger but will make it through to be a powerhouse. 

I see this as well. But then I wouldn't be surprised if she goes first/early either.

[simplyme]

But at least she'll be Unforgettable... That's what you are...

Er, Youtube link to 1991's Unforgettable... With Love (Natalie and Nat King Cole):

https://youtu.be/fxZ1w3c2hUk

for those who wondered what I was smoking. This one is SimplyMom's fault.

[ProfCrash]

I can say that she did not stand out at the challenges. I did not notice her at all, so she was not noticably lagging or being dragged along. At least in the first immunity challenge she did not seem to be a hinderance.

[ratgirlagogo]

I'm hoping she makes it to the Loved Ones episode and we get to meet one of the many people who has "literally" taken a bullet for her.

[Bryce Lynch]

12 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

I'm hoping she makes it to the Loved Ones episode and we get to meet one of the many people who has "literally" taken a bullet for her.

I want to see the man, who as Jeremy observed, has loved her just the way she is, for the past 24 years.  I want to know what the most patient, tolerant and understanding person on the planet looks like.  

[Nashville]

13 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

I'm hoping she makes it to the Loved Ones episode and we get to meet one of the many people who has "literally" taken a bullet for her.

Maybe they’ll show us the scars.  :D

Hmmm...

When Natalie says “bullet”, what exactly are we talking here? .22 short rounds?  .357 Magnums?  BBs?  Could make a difference.  ;>

[ByaNose]

3 hours ago, Nashville said:

Maybe they’ll show us the scars.  :D

Hmmm...

When Natalie says “bullet”, what exactly are we talking here? .22 short rounds?  .357 Magnums?  BBs?  Could make a difference.  ;>

and, do the people Natalie works with know they were supposed to take a bullet for Natalie? I bet most of them were like, "Oh, no she didn't!!" after watching that episode.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, ByaNose said:

and, do the people Natalie works with know they were supposed to take a bullet for Natalie? I bet most of them were like, "Oh, no she didn't!!" after watching that episode.

...assuming, of course, they weren’t in need of supplemental oxygen after laughing themselves into unconsciousness....  ;)

[simplyme]

On 10/3/2018 at 10:50 PM, ratgirlagogo said:

I'm hoping she makes it to the Loved Ones episode and we get to meet one of the many people who has "literally" taken a bullet for her.

I just want to know if any of those people was holding the gun the bullet came from and yelling that they couldn't take any more. That would explain a lot.

[Jextella]

On 9/13/2018 at 12:36 AM, LadyChatts said:

That and she may get the helpless older contestant, angry black woman edit.  Being part of the Goliath tribe, unfortuanetly I think she might have a hard time fitting in with that crowd.  I kind of like her, so hopefully yhey can pull of some challenge wins until a tribe swap, or long enough for someone else to do something stupid.

This from her pet peeves:

I take it she won't like quitters, challenge throwers, or the lazy 20 somethings she's going to be stuck with on her tribe (just a hunch on the lazy part).  I'm trying to figure out how the hell some of those people qualify as "Goliath" from Probst's definition.

I don't mind her either.  I mean, at first glance, she's one helluva bitch, but being a woman, being a successful business woman, being black, and being a 3-time cancer survivor (so I've read elsewhere), it would be damn hard not to be a tough-ass after 56 years of a life that was uphill on so many levels (I assume, anyway).

I think I'm more bothered by the young people who don't take the time to consider circumstances that aren't surface-level.  They are being naive and dismissive and arrogant, frankly (it'll catch up to them when they are Natalie's age).

I do hope, however, Natalie watches the show and maybe see how life might be just a little more full and rewarding if she weren't so standoffish and brash.

It's early, but for now, I like her.  

Edited October 8, 2018 by Jextella

[blackwing]

3 hours ago, Jextella said:

I think I'm more bothered by the young people who don't take the time to consider circumstances that aren't surface-level.  They are being naive and dismissive and arrogant, frankly (it'll catch up to them when they are Natalie's age).

I agree.  Even though her manner is tough to take, I do feel for her, because I feel like she is in a position where no matter what she does, her tribe will criticize her.  She's old, black, not in great shape, and a woman.  The younger set probably feels like she doesn't belong on their tribe because she's not young, white and pretty.  If she plays the traditional role of the older female and sits back and quietly observes she will get criticised for "doing nothing" and being "weak and useless".  But she decided to be a leader and take charge and she's getting criticised for being "bossy" and "demanding".

They would find any excuse to get rid of her even if she was the nicest person.

I think it's refreshing to see an older woman on this show be so unapologetically unafraid to be who she is.  I hope she lasts long in this game.

[Nashville]

7 hours ago, blackwing said:

I agree.  Even though her manner is tough to take, I do feel for her, because I feel like she is in a position where no matter what she does, her tribe will criticize her.  She's old, black, not in great shape, and a woman.  The younger set probably feels like she doesn't belong on their tribe because she's not young, white and pretty.  If she plays the traditional role of the older female and sits back and quietly observes she will get criticised for "doing nothing" and being "weak and useless".  But she decided to be a leader and take charge and she's getting criticised for being "bossy" and "demanding".

They would find any excuse to get rid of her even if she was the nicest person.

I think it's refreshing to see an older woman on this show be so unapologetically unafraid to be who she is.  I hope she lasts long in this game.

I believe, though, you’ve done an excellent job of outlining precisely why Natalie will not.  

Regarding your statement about Natalie being “old, black, not in great shape, and a woman” - each of these can be significant challenges in Survivor-land, true; past record, though, shows none of them are insurmountable:

1. Multiple women have won Survivor, for example - 16 at last count.
2. Multiple African-Americans have as well - 4 at present.
3. “Out of shape” is an extremely subjective classification, of course, but I don’t think anybody would have considered Richard Hatch to be the most “in shape” person of his season, or Sandra Diaz, or John Cochran - three examples off the top of my head, so I’m sure there are others.
4. The most restrictive factor, in fact, appears to be age.  Only one person over the age of 50 has won Survivor - Bob Crowley in S17 (Gabon) - but at age 57, he was a year older than Natalie is right now.

My point being - yes Natalie faces several specific Survivor challenges, but no single one of them has proven historically insurmountable.  These challenges will require work to overcome, though, and therein is my primary problem with Natalie’s game - she has shown zero inclination to put in the necessary work.  

Rather than engaging tribe mates in a positive manner to demonstrate benefit to their individual and group games, Natalie has pursued an almost diametrically opposing course of action - interacting with others on only the most minimal and superficial of levels, and reacting to any strategic discussion and/or feedback with negativity bordering on (and sometimes crossing the border of) hostile defensiveness.

[JudyObscure]

What I find baffling about Natalie is how such a smart, successful woman could come to the show with so little preparation.  Has she watched the DVD's of the show?   She can't claim to be too old to work, she could weave fronds if nothing else. My 96 year-old neighbor still works in her yard.  I don't think she has done her homework at all or she would know that pre-merge boots are rarely about who is the biggest threat to win the million, she would have found out all the things Nashville just listed, plus she would have seen person after person be voted out early for being bossy.  She would have known how important it is to engage in group activities and help around camp, because, yes, some people are just looking for an excuse to vote out the older woman -- don't hand them one

[ByaNose]

49 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

What I find baffling about Natalie is how such a smart, successful woman could come to the show with so little preparation.  Has she watched the DVD's of the show?   She can't claim to be too old to work, she could weave fronds if nothing else. My 96 year-old neighbor still works in her yard.  I don't think she has done her homework at all or she would know that pre-merge boots are rarely about who is the biggest threat to win the million, she would have found out all the things Nashville just listed, plus she would have seen person after person be voted out early for being bossy.  She would have known how important it is to engage in group activities and help around camp, because, yes, some people are just looking for an excuse to vote out the older woman -- don't hand them one

I thought I saw on her twitter where she basically said her job is to observe people at work. And, that's what she is doing on Survivor. I think she is also blaming the editing, too. I'm sure her exit (when it comes) interview will be all revisionist history and she'll say everyone loved her. I would be shocked if she makes it to jury but if they don't switch tribes she might never see a Tribal Council.

[Lamb18]

I was wondering if she wanted to be voted out first. In the episode there were shots of her standing by herself and it looked like she was wondering why in the world she was doing this and like she felt really out of place.

[ProfCrash]

On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 6:52 PM, blackwing said:

I agree.  Even though her manner is tough to take, I do feel for her, because I feel like she is in a position where no matter what she does, her tribe will criticize her.  She's old, black, not in great shape, and a woman.  The younger set probably feels like she doesn't belong on their tribe because she's not young, white and pretty.  If she plays the traditional role of the older female and sits back and quietly observes she will get criticised for "doing nothing" and being "weak and useless".  But she decided to be a leader and take charge and she's getting criticised for being "bossy" and "demanding".

They would find any excuse to get rid of her even if she was the nicest person.

I think it's refreshing to see an older woman on this show be so unapologetically unafraid to be who she is.  I hope she lasts long in this game.

Anyone can decide to be the "leader" but you are not likely to be acknowledged as the leader unless you demonstrate that you know what you are talking about and that you are willing to help. Natalie is not a construction worker or involved in construction and did not appear to being any special knowledge of how to build a shelter. Natalie did nothing to actually help build the shelter. She barked orders and spoke condescendingly to people who were actually working or trying to make suggestions. Natalie could have gone out and collected tree fronds, weaved tree fronds, or gathered some of the wood. She was accused by many of not doing any work, something that the white Public Defender from Kentucky (Nick), was accused of on the David tribe. So I don't think her being lazy is something noticed due to her age, skin color or gender, I think it is that she did not contribute to the task at hand. Just like Nick.

She was approached by Jeremy, also not white, who tried to help her by pointing out that she was not connecting with folks and her attitude was not appreciated. She was less then gracious in her reply. And I get it, it sucks to be told that you are not liked by the tribe and that your attitude sucks but responding with "You are wrong, everyone loves me" is not helpful.

Pat on the David tribe was older and bossy. He was initially not well received but that changed pretty fast once people realized that he knew what he was talking about and they saw how hard he worked. His initial interactions were rough, people were put off by his little sayings and colloquial phrases, but they saw his work, ready smile and realized that Pat was not trying to be offensive and let it slide.

What I have seen of Natalie does not make me want to work for her or be around her. I am sure she will tell us how loved she really was but everything I have seen says the opposite. She even gave Jeff attitude when her tribe sat her for the immunity challenge, she had a snide comment about that decision.

[LadyChatts]

So many of the comments above got me thinking about Natalie and the situation she's in.  I think a lot of her issue boils down to being a fish out of water on a tribe of younger, more athletic, more take charge tribe mates.  The younger girls on Goliath (at least Natalia and Angelina) clearly want to be running things, and whether they'd have any use bringing Natalie into their faux couples fold, I don't know.  

Reading comments about her being bossy and not seeing the reality around her of the situation she's in takes me back to season 1, and why I think for one reason that season should be mandatory viewing for any future Survivor castaway.  One reason because of a quote from one Rudy Boesch about his Tagi tribemates: "I gotta fit in, not them."  Good advice to live by on this show, even if it kills you to be nice.  Survive to a swap or merge and maybe you'll have better luck letting your true self come out.  

Edited October 10, 2018 by LadyChatts

[marys1000]

I had the same thought about why is she here?  Has she watched the show?  When said to someone, why vote out the older woman I'm no threat.  Right.  You are also pre merge when the way to stay in the game is to have your team win so you don't go to tribal.  And you aren't helping with that.  Not in physical challenges, I've seen no genius with puzzles and you don't help around camp so others can save their energy for challenges.   Boom Gone. And rightfully so.  You have to provide something to tribe premerge and to your alliance post merge.  

What was said upthread about watching people is interesting because I have been thinking about Natalie and how she listens to hear who is being talked about and then runs to them and tells them - people are throwing out your name.  So I get the feeling that she has under the radar relationships going on with people.  And maybe an alliance with the wrestler/geologist.   Whether she can develop them beyond warning them and incurring some gratitude IDK.  She may be a little snakey sneaky.  

Edited October 10, 2018 by marys1000

[JudyObscure]

She sure is interesting to watch.  After her showdown with Jeremy I'm wondering if her strategy is to infuriate other people into revealing their worst side.

[ByaNose]

I am also trying to figure out why Natalie signed up for Survivor. I can see why casting hired her but I'm not sure why she's wanted to do it. She can't seem to do anything or want to do anything. Unless, they've edit out every positive thing that's she done on the show it's seems like this is who she is. She seems really hard to live with. I can see someone like John (Slamtown) wanting to drag someone like her to end but if she can't help out on her end it's a long haul.

[Special K]

Why do people in their 50s say they're older than they are?  Is it to express that they are for the first time actually feeling old?  I have a friend who has been describing his age as "practically 60" since he turned 50!

(I ask this as a person in her 50s.)

[ByaNose]

28 minutes ago, Special K said:

Why do people in their 50s say they're older than they are?  Is it to express that they are for the first time actually feeling old?  I have a friend who has been describing his age as "practically 60" since he turned 50!

(I ask this as a person in her 50s.)

I'm 53 and often forget if I'm 53 or 54. That said, I never say I'm older. I always say I'm 48 or 49. I would love to do Suvivor but I'm practically ancient now. Natalie seems so unbearable that I don't think age has anything to do with it.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, ByaNose said:

I'm 53 and often forget if I'm 53 or 54. That said, I never say I'm older. I always say I'm 48 or 49. I would love to do Suvivor but I'm practically ancient now. Natalie seems so unbearable that I don't think age has anything to do with it.

Half the time I don’t automatically remember any more; if/when the question of my age comes up nowadays, I invariably have to take a moment and do some quick math.  :)

[ratgirlagogo]

On 10/11/2018 at 8:04 AM, ByaNose said:

I am also trying to figure out why Natalie signed up for Survivor. I can see why casting hired her but I'm not sure why she's wanted to do it.

I'm baffled by this too.  She doesn't seem that interested in the outdoors adventure aspect of it,  I don't quite understand how being on this show would benefit her business, not from the publicity, not even the winning the money part.

Edited October 13, 2018 by ratgirlagogo

[Heathrowe]

Her strategy of doing nothing is pretty interesting to me?!  I think at some point, she's going to have to demonstrate some value to move on, but...maybe not. Maybe it's a zen thing and she'll just ride the waves better than the others.

[Nashville]

On 10/13/2018 at 3:00 AM, ratgirlagogo said:

I'm baffled by this too.  She doesn't seem that interested in the outdoors adventure aspect of it,  I don't quite understand how being on this show would benefit her business, not from the publicity, not even the winning the money part.

 

Halfway wondering if Natalie’s employees talked her into it so they could have a month-plus off from her:

”Oh hey, Natalie, c’mon now - within a week you’ll be managing them just like you manage us.  It’ll be like a month-long paid vacation in a tropical paradise, with a million-dollar reward at the end!  You owe it to yourself to try, at least, else you’ll be saying ‘What if...?’ for the rest of your life - and to all of us, who’ll be living the dream vicariously through you.  For God’s sake, Natalie, YOU GOTTA GO!!!”

They may all get fired when Natalie returns, of course - but (a) that assumes she survives, (b) it’ll be a GREAT month until then, and (c) there’s always the possibility their plan is to loot the office and quit before she gets back.  ;>

Edited October 15, 2018 by Nashville
Punctuation, typo

[ByaNose]

It is amazing how someone can sit on their ass and bark out orders to people. Where did she get the idea that this would play well in Fiji? I just can’t imagine having to listen to her in the real world or worse yet.........at work!!!!! It’s even funnier that the new tribe mates are like WTF?? Is this what you’ve been putting up with the past 10 days? They were lucky they found out in 2 hours after sweating tribes. Natalie is the worst.

[BK1978]

As I said in the most recent episode thread, from an entertainment standpoint she amuses me to no end.  She is so oblivious or does not care about other people and I love that.  However, if I were on her tribe I would probably want to kill her, well not kill her because then I would end up in prison...you get the point.

[Nashville]

Probably just me being an old stick-in-the-mud, but Natalie’s assholery is just WAY too over-the-top for me to find it entertaining to any degree.  If I had to work with Natalie, count me in for her goodbye lunch.

[ProfCrash]

There is nothing entertaining about watching Natalie. She is an unpleasant person who is not playing to win. There is no way in hell that she thinks that she can win at the end. She has been flat out told by her entire tribe that they don't like how she speaks to people or how she interacts with people. She is dismissive and condescending. She is unwilling to do any type of work.

I despise people who are not playing to win. Some people might suck at the game but at least they are trying. Natalie is not playing to win and that pisses me off.

[ByaNose]

There's lots of people who know they can't win but want to be tv famous. I think Natalie wants to be dragged to the end in hopes of winning. At least, that's what I'm hoping. I can't imagine she thought would sail on through with her great personality, atlethic ability and people skills. <sarcasm>

[Special K]

To me, Natalie seems like a sit-com character playing an extreme personality and not a real person.

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

There is nothing entertaining about watching Natalie.

Speak for yourself!

The most astonishing to me is that everyone just follows her orders. Like she was telling Angelina what to do with the fire and Angelina did every single thing she was told. Damn!

[Special K]

She's kind of like a litmus test, revealing the discipline and restraint of the other contestants or lack thereof, is how I see it.  Last night, they all passed with flying colors!!  I thought even Angelina, who I don't especially like, brought it to a professional level of restraint.  Mike also.

And I loved the droll nature of the conversation between the new folks and the old:  "Is this how it's been?"  "Yeah, pretty much."

Edited October 18, 2018 by Special K

[ByaNose]

1 minute ago, Special K said:

She's kind of like a litmus test, revealing the discipline and restraint of the other contestants or lack thereof, is how I see it.  Last night, they all passed with flying colors!!  I thought even Angelina, who I don't especially like, brought it to a professional level of restraint.  Mike also.

And I loved the droll nature of the conversation between the new folks and the old:  "Is this how it's been?"  "Yeah, pretty much."

Yeah, the new folks are like this is f'ing crazy! Is this how it's been for you folks? How'd you do it? LOL!!!!

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, Special K said:

She's kind of like a litmus test, revealing the discipline and restraint of the other contestants or lack thereof, is how I see it.  Last night, they all passed with flying colors!!  I thought even Angelina, who I don't especially like, brought it to a professional level of restraint.  Mike also.

And I loved the droll nature of the conversation between the new folks and the old:  "Is this how it's been?"  "Yeah, pretty much."

Can’t believe I’m even quasi-defending Natalie in any respect, but the discipline and restraint of the other contestants probably contributes to Natalie’s supremely shitty social game.  IMHO Natalie’s domineering attitude is such an ingrained facet of her personality it’s her automatic go-to; she’s probably unconscious she’s doing it - so if they don’t call her out on it, Natalie is unlikely to (a) even realize her behavior is THAT abrasive or (b) make so much as an attempt to change.  

All of which may be strategy on the part of the other Goliaths.  Giving Natalie free rein to irritate the holy fuck out of the Davids makes her an attractive Goliath eviction option, should the Davids gain a strategic upper hand.

[Special K]

35 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Can’t believe I’m even quasi-defending Natalie in any respect, but the discipline and restraint of the other contestants probably contributes to Natalie’s supremely shitty social game.  IMHO Natalie’s domineering attitude is such an ingrained facet of her personality it’s her automatic go-to; she’s probably unconscious she’s doing it - so if they don’t call her out on it, Natalie is unlikely to (a) even realize her behavior is THAT abrasive or (b) make so much as an attempt to change. 

Jeremy did try repeatedly to point it out to her, whatever we think of his approach(es).  And the others at Jeremy's TC said some straight-up stuff to her in a diplomatic/constructive way.  Like Dan said she treated everyone like staff even though they aren't her employees.  Personally I think she is not educable in this regard. 

ETA:  Actually I think she is proud of this behavior and sees herself defined by it.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Special K

[Nashville]

37 minutes ago, Special K said:

Jeremy did try repeatedly to point it out to her, whatever we think of his approach(es).  And the others at Jeremy's TC said some straight-up stuff to her in a diplomatic/constructive way.  Like Dan said she treated everyone like staff even though they aren't her employees.  Personally I think she is not educable in this regard. 

ETA:  Actually I think she is proud of this behavior and sees herself defined by it.

Jeremy solo didn’t stand a chance, and probably neither would anybody else if they confront Natalie in anything approaching a one-on-one individual approach - Natalie would simply dismiss each such episode of contact out-of-hand, and probably wouldn’t even connect multiple such attempts.  

IMHO only a unanimous or near-unanimous intervention might stand a chance of cracking Natalie’s shell of self-absorption - but that still isn’t a guarantee, and (as I said earlier) may run counter to stratagems currently in play.

[ratgirlagogo]

16 hours ago, Special K said:

ETA:  Actually I think she is proud of this behavior and sees herself defined by it.

Agreed.  As I said in the episode thread she's a Queen Lear.

[JudyObscure]

I never believe anyone is playing for second place.  I think they all maintain hope of winning right up until the finale.  Remember how Russell cried in shocked disappointment, even after the whole world and all spoilers should have warned him to believe otherwise?  After all, people line up to by lottery tickets week after week.  In the goat's mind everyone feels bitter against the hardworking challenge monster and they will all vote for him/her because of those nice things they did that were edited out.  After all Jenna M. won in just that scenario.

My guess is Natalie thinks she's going to keep saying she's no threat because she's old, right up until she sits before the jury and instructs them all to vote for her because she was secretly managing everything.

[ProfCrash]

I am not sure that I buy that. I think that there are plenty of people who are playing just to make it further and don't think they have a shot of winning. Russell is a delusional idiot but we all know that. The fact that Russell doesn't have a clue as to why he has lost every time he has played is amazing. At least Coach and Philip clued into the fact that they had played poorly and tried to change their game. Generally speaking, I don't think that the people who are there playing a "big character" are the ones who are playing for TV time and not to win, but that is my take on it. I am sure that some of them think that they played to win but I think most understand that they are in trouble. There are the exceptions tot he rule, Natalie could very well be one of them.

[JudyObscure]

20 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I am not sure that I buy that. I think that there are plenty of people who are playing just to make it further and don't think they have a shot of winning. Russell is a delusional idiot but we all know that. The fact that Russell doesn't have a clue as to why he has lost every time he has played is amazing. At least Coach and Philip clued into the fact that they had played poorly and tried to change their game. Generally speaking, I don't think that the people who are there playing a "big character" are the ones who are playing for TV time and not to win, but that is my take on it. I am sure that some of them think that they played to win but I think most understand that they are in trouble. There are the exceptions tot he rule, Natalie could very well be one of them.

I think (playing for second) is a very different thing when people like Coach and Phillip are playing for the second time after watching themselves on TV and hearing what people said about them.  The ones I'm talking about, who I think all believe they're playing to win, are first time players who are inside the game, unaware of how they are  probably inflating their own contribution due to the fact that just being there is difficult and exhausting beyond anything they have probably known before.  They aren't seeing the other's private interviews and are, instead,  listening to the flattering things people say to their faces.  Every season I'm amazed at the emotion during the family visits, but they just serve to remind me of how different every minute on the island is from ordinary time.  It's a reality show but it's very far from any real life we're accustomed to and that's why I think they probably believe they're, as they say in their exit interviews, "a big threat playing an awesome game."

ProfCrash, you and I have argued many times about what I see as obnoxious bragging,  that  you see as a good thing, evident of high self-esteem.  I think it's an extension of this high self-esteem that probably makes them think they're winning when they aren't.  Sierra is a prime example to me  of someone like that.  She was making "big moves," mainly stupid ones, but thought she was playing a great game and was amazed when she was voted out.

Just read their bios, most of these people think of themselves as absolutely awesome, why wouldn't they be expecting to win?