S01.E08: Milk

[Penman61]

One good thing:  Eliza Scanlen (Amma) is an amazing actress.

[OldButHappy]

2 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

 

Hated it. The way the ending and big reveal were handled, sucked. Ugh. 

 

Me too..I was soooo hoping for it to improve.  What a letdown.

[peach]

7 minutes ago, KillBill said:

 And Amma loved Adora so much that she let her poison her but allowed her to take the downfall for her murders?

Because she's crazy, not stupid.

Quote

I don't believe Alan was innocent and he's technically an accomplice to Marian's murder and the poisoning of Amma and Camille, so why is he not in jail?

I think that would be impossible to prove.  At least they let Camille have custody.
 

5 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

One good thing:  Eliza Scanlen (Amma) is an amazing actress.

That was one of the creepiest performances I have ever seen.

[ferjy]

14 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

One good thing:  Eliza Scanlen (Amma) is an amazing actress.

I have to give it that, the acting was fantastic across the board. I was especially impressed with Amy Adams because I've only seen her in fluff movies before so it was hard to guage how good she actually is.

Edited August 27, 2018 by ferjy

[Butless]

2 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

Agreed. He was great in his one scene. So good I think he shook Richard's belief in the case. And that scene was well-written. He's smart and thinking on his feet. He doesn't assume he understands Ashley's motivations but has empathy for her. I look forward to his future work.

He just needs to stop sucking in his breath before he speaks. That makes him sound like hes delivering dialogue. Every bad overemoting actor does that on crime shows. 

[ferjy]

37 minutes ago, KillBill said:

Hmm... little girls killing other little girls just for the fun of it, and getting away with it.

 I needed more... the story seems unfinished...so many unanswered questions. When Amma realizes Camille has figured it out, does she just allow her to call the police? And Amma loved Adora so much that she let her poison her but allowed her to take the downfall for her murders? I don't believe Alan was innocent and he's technically an accomplice to 
Marian's murder and the poisoning of Amma and Camille, so why is he not in jail?

Although I wish we had more episodes, I can appreciate the finale because it leaves Amma's motive open to interpretation and creates a since of intrigue around all the characters and their actions.

I'm not convinced she did love her. She just liked the attention Adora showered on her.

[Butless]

1 hour ago, PepSinger said:

Another question is why was Ann Nash left in the water while Natalie Keene was brought into town and posed like a doll?

AND howd they manage that? That trio of 13 year old girls who cant drive and wouldnt be seen rambling in a golf cart through town with a dead girl?

[Accidental Martyr]

2 hours ago, SoWindsor said:

 

What was the significance of Camille noticing how Ammas new friend was eating — didn’t really get that. But it definitely seemed like Amma had killed the new friend.

 

1 hour ago, Xantar said:

There was a shot where it looked like Amma’s new friend had some words written on her hand, so that’s what Camille was reacting to. Whether or not those words were actually there is anybody’s guess.

I think it said “CALL MOM”.

I can’t believe those girls moved the body and sat it up in that alley with no one seeing them.

I still want to know how Camille carved words on her back.

[Butless]

1 hour ago, PepSinger said:

Just caught Curry reading Camille's piece, which of course, is another clue. Adora doesn't explain the teeth -- because she can't -- or the naked rage it would take someone to do that.

Which should have tipped this dumbass, as well as everyone else, that Camille really wasnt the right guardian for Amma.  She cant even make up her mind that she wont harm Amma like Adora! Jesus. This thing is tonedeaf from one end to the other.

This crapped on Camille and the viewer. Any goodwill I had for Camille is gone. Flynn IS a hack.

[ferjy]

31 minutes ago, peach said:

I think that would be impossible to prove. 
 

I wonder. He's such a snivelling wimp, I bet they'd be able to get a confession out of him pretty easily.

[peach]

6 minutes ago, Buttless said:

Which should have tipped this dumbass, as well as everyone else, that Camille really wasnt the right guardian for Amma.  She cant even make up her mind that she wont harm Amma like Adora! Jesus. This thing is tonedeaf from one end to the other.

This crapped on Camille and the viewer. Any goodwill I had for Camille is gone. Flynn IS a hack.

Yeah, that part was like...wut?  Didn't really fit with the character, either, imo. I would think Camille's struggles in raising Amma would be related to her own lack of boundaries and immaturity, like when she did drugs with Amma.  Amma was psychologically the more powerful of the two, she was just limited by having a 13yo mind.

Edited to add that Camille was also drunk when she was running around with teenagers, and they clearly portrayed her as sober and functional back in St Louis

Edited August 27, 2018 by peach

[ferjy]

2 hours ago, Penman61 said:

I watched the scene again and freeze-framed, and I think you're right now.  The focus blurs the fencing so it just looks like grating (at least it did to me), but when it pops into focus, it's a fence.  I think you're right. :)

 

Screencaps are showing up now. Here's the one with Amma's new friend, Mae, at that same fence. At the park, I guess. Camille had said the girls went to the pool at the park to "not swim". So probably pool fencing.

Edited August 27, 2018 by ferjy

[Anela]

I'm watching it now. Everything in the house is so creepy. Sorry to hear that they didn't finish it all properly. 

[DiabLOL]

I wanna speak to the manager! I want my money back!

I feel so robbed. I spent seven hours watching this and thinking about it and tonight I feel so played.

As soon as "In the Evening" started up it's as if we were suddenly in a super juiced up in the now teen sex slasher rock and roll movie. That's not what the show was until then! 

Amma made me think Spooky TJ Miller. 

I'm sure the actress is just fine so I'm gonna blame the direction/writing on what I found her way too "Bwuahahahahahaaa I'm so warped and evil!" style of villain foreshadowing throughout. The floor made out of human ivory was a nice touch but really HOW did those girls manage all that and why? We needed to see more of the Amma Cult. Why did they do it? Did they have wild bloody Satanic three ways after each kill? What? The fact that we got a few smears of imagery during the credits is so insanely hostile that I really don't know what to do with myself. So many questions unanswered. 

I've long thought Gillian Flynn a hack yet certainly worth an entertaining time but tonight I'm just really mad at her. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by DiabLOL

[OldButHappy]

12 minutes ago, Anela said:

I'm watching it now. Everything in the house is so creepy. Sorry to hear that they didn't finish it all properly. 

Don't make the mistake that I did...I was so disappointed with the episode that I switched channels when the credits began...I'll have to re-watch to see the credits' images that reveal the killers.

Just another reason that I appreciate these boards.

[MBayGal]

Putting those mini-"scenes" in during the credits was a shitty move! How many people watch all the credits in case some important info will be revealed?  I would not have known about them if I hadn't read it here.  Then I could barely make out what I was supposed to be seeing.  I was already dissatisfied with the ending; this made me disgusted with it.  And so many unanswered questions, as others have detailed above.  

Edited August 27, 2018 by MBayGal
typo

[100Proof]

Folks all watching different shows it seems. Amma and her pals was obvious early on. This series sucked balls the way others have pointed out as well.... a load of f***ed up characters acting f***ed up without rhyme or reason into shit ending

Edited August 27, 2018 by 100Proof

[knitta please]

I can confirm that it takes quite a bit of work to remove adult teeth as I took my stepson to have a tooth pulled this past week, and two others several months ago. It involves a lot of tools that resemble ones in my tool box, strength, knowledge of how to remove them somewhat, and time. I guess Amma wasn't being careful like our dentist, but it isn't an easy feat. 

As for Amma being the killer...I am shocked. Just shocked. That ending left a lot to be desired. My take on the quick shots were of Amma strangling her new friend at the closed outdoor pool and she and the roller girls dressed in white killing the others.

I think that a better ending would have been to find Amma's new friend murdered the same way as the other two girls. It wouldn't take Camille very long to clue in. Or maybe it would the way that this show was written.

Did anyone else think that when Amma was talking to Adora at the jail that she said anything about the murders? Does Adora know that it was Amma? That would have been an interesting avenue to explore. Given that the floor that was so focused on in the real house, was made of teeth in the doll house, I find it difficult to believe that Adora wouldn't be aware of that fact.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by knitta please
Not finished thinking! (And spelling)

[Butless]

42 minutes ago, ferjy said:

Screencaps are showing up now. Here's the one with Amma's new friend, Mae, at that same fence. At the park, I guess. Camille had said the girls went to the pool at the park to "not swim". So probably pool fencing.

These screencaps are horrendous. Im glad the makers of this show thought this through so well. Its not like these arent hoing to end up all over the dark parts of the web where men can fap over them.

[Anela]

I saw Amma and her friends holding the girls down, and Amma looking satisfied as I guess one finally died. :( That was disturbing. I didn't see the last poor girl, her newest friend, who made the mistake of being sweet, intelligent, and polite. Amma could tell that they were impressed with her - taking attention away from herself - so she had to go. The last credit scene was of Amma in her white dress, walking into the woods. I didn't see white coats, but that's where she would end up. In the book

 

they were planning to kill one of their group, because she was riddled with guilt, and really upset, but the police arrested her mother, before that could happen

.

I actually didn't mind the ending (except for them putting that stuff in the credits). I hate villain monologues. 

Oh god, I've just seen the screen cap above. I know the actress is alive and well, but that was so upsetting. That bit went so fast, I couldn't make out what was happening, until it clearly showed Amma's happy/satiated face. (I've just re-watched, and did make her out the second time.)

Edited August 27, 2018 by Anela

[PepSinger]

I definitely wondered about the convo between Adora and Amma once Adora was in prison.

[scrb]

10 hours ago, preeya said:

I posted this in S01E07 Falling as my prediction for the finale.

The way I see it: 

My two cent prediction.

Adora is guilty of murder (Marian) and attempted murder (Amma). She will likely be committed to a mental institution because she is one sick person.

The other two murdered girls were likely killed by the trio of "marauding skaters" (Amma and her two friends).

I can't envision Amma being strong enough to have done it alone.   JMHO

Yeah I got that sense it was Amma and her accomplices, a few episodes ago.

The Adora Munchausen thing was a late development.

Amma shouldn't be able to overpower the other girls -- she's not physically that much stronger.  But if she's more vicious, young girls may not offer much of a resistance.  However, John said Natalie was tough, who'd bite and claw and fight back.

I still don't see her being able to pry teeth from her victims.  How did she get the one girl into the middle of the town by herself and pose her like a doll (which is suppose to be a hint about her dollhouse)?

And she's going to scrape the enamel off the teeth she pulled and make it look like the ivory tiles in Adora's home?

As for the slow pace, they could have done this in 4 episodes but that won't work for HBO mini series.  So they probably had to put in a lot of atmospheric padding.

True Detective Season 3, set in the South again, may go for something similar too.

[Anela]

https://www.cnet.com/news/sharp-objects-hbo-finale-milk-post-credits-scenes-explained/?ftag=COS-05-10aaa0b&linkId=56051847

They talk about what happened in the book, at times. Just a warning, since this is the TV thread.

[peach]

I liked the closure with Richard.  He was completely overwhelmed by the enormity of what happened in that family, and of Camille's suffering.  I think he felt genuinely ashamed of himself for judging her.  It also wasn't like, oh, okay, I'll help make it all better.  It was too much for him.  I felt that scene was more realistic than the typical thriller/drama ending of let's all cry and hug it out with relief and now it's over. (usually with an ambulance blanket around the shoulders)   Instead they showed him awkwardly struggling to even find the right words, and then "I'm sorry" is really the only thing to say.  And he did save her life.  But they didn't get together like a Lifetime movie or something.  They made their small moment of peace, and then he left.

[DangerousMinds]

49 minutes ago, Buttless said:

These screencaps are horrendous. Im glad the makers of this show thought this through so well. Its not like these arent hoing to end up all over the dark parts of the web where men can fap over them.

Huh? How is this picture different than a screenshot from any other of the multitude of crime dramas available online?

Edited August 27, 2018 by DangerousMinds

[peach]

1 hour ago, ferjy said:

I wonder. He's such a snivelling wimp, I bet they'd be able to get a confession out of him pretty easily.

But I think he's the type that would never admit it even to himself. 

[ferjy]

38 minutes ago, peach said:

But I think he's the type that would never admit it even to himself. 

Could be. I was envisioning your typical crime drama. Stick him in a hot interrogation room, no beverages, batter him with questions. He’d break by the time the sun rose (or set). Probably crying like a baby. John would have nothing on him. ;-D

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by ferjy

[peach]

So, last episode we were talking about the how the town was sort of under a spell.  I wonder if that's the meaning of the Sheriff Vickery not waking up on time and doing his morning routine that last day.  Adora's spell was being broken, by Camille.

[sheetmoss]

Good breakdown of  series ending

Of course....SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/08/sharp-objects-finale-who-is-the-killer-amma-ending-explained-credits

[rozen]

I have to say I was a little surprised at how....incompetently Adora went about poisoning Camille. For lack of better phrasing. It was like she was trying to pack in 20 some years of missed opportunity into one night. It was like Adora was straight up trying to kill Camille, to the point where even Alan was telling her to slow her roll. Does Adora wield so much power that even in this modern age she could weasel out of Camille undergoing a tox report, and instead chalking it up to her wayward junkie daughter going a step too far? Camille must feel such survivor's guilt for not 'sharing the burden' with her two sisters, leaving them to wither and die under Adora's care.

Also, that maid is not dumb, so I hope she is under a jail somewhere too. But probably not, since Alan inexplicably made it off scott-free. What a weasel. Who calmly watches their own children be murdered, only stepping in to manage the process so it's not too fast or suspicious? 

I liked the touch of Camille's boss hustling to get her covered up asap while Richard staggers back like he got smacked in the face with a skillet. Only at the very end did he realize how much he underestimated the perversion of little ol' Windgap and the residents thereof. There are not enough sorrys in the world, bro.

The bloody teeth pliers were found almost immediately upon searching the house. Adora totally knew, I bet half of her insistence on keeping Amma housebound was to try to pace her in the number of girls she murdered. I could totally believe there are a few more odd murders that happened earlier on, but were spread far enough apart so as to not attract attention*. An instantaneous obsession with making an ivory floor out of teeth is unbelievable. She's been gearing up for, and becoming more efficient at, this for a while I bet.

"Don't tell mama" is gonna creep me out big time ForEver.

 

*Or, some very, very brutal pig abuse and slaughter incidents.

[peach]

9 minutes ago, rozen said:

I have to say I was a little surprised at how....incompetently Adora went about poisoning Camille. For lack of better phrasing. It was like she was trying to pack in 20 some years of missed opportunity into one night. It was like Adora was straight up trying to kill Camille, to the point where even Alan was telling her to slow her roll. Does Adora wield so much power that even in this modern age she could weasel out of Camille undergoing a tox report, and instead chalking it up to her wayward junkie daughter going a step too far?

She was so excited about it, too. Ugh, so evil.  As far as toxicology, etc goes, she got away with it once, so I'm sure she thought she could do it again.  Criminals always up the ante until they get caught.  Also, she is crazy.  They had Richard make the point that Amma had built up some tolerance to the poison but Camille didn't have any, so it affected her worse.  But she did seem to be drinking a ton of it.  Her veiled excitement while mixing it up was so chilling.  She didn't even stop to wonder why Camille suddenly allowed this.
 

Quote

*Or, some very, very brutal pig abuse and slaughter incidents.

Good point.  I never did understand what was going on when Camille followed Amma to the pig farm, and watched her take a pig away.  And the way Amma stared at her the last second, because she totally knew Camille was there.  I wasn't even sure that happened, because it was so weird and seemed like a hallucination.  And was never mentioned again.  Never thought about her maybe killing animals just to do it.

[Butless]

18 hours ago, peach said:

I liked the closure with Richard.  He was completely overwhelmed by the enormity of what happened in that family, and of Camille's suffering.  I think he felt genuinely ashamed of himself for judging her.  It also wasn't like, oh, okay, I'll help make it all better.  It was too much for him.  I felt that scene was more realistic than the typical thriller/drama ending of let's all cry and hug it out with relief and now it's over. (usually with an ambulance blanket around the shoulders)   Instead they showed him awkwardly struggling to even find the right words, and then "I'm sorry" is really the only thing to say.  And he did save her life.  But they didn't get together like a Lifetime movie or something.  They made their small moment of peace, and then he left.

And it was satisfying and funny when Amma said. "Dick," after he left.

18 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Huh? How is this picture different than a screenshot from any other of the multitude of crime dramas available online?

One of the themes of this , by way of a criticism, was how everyone is attracted to murdered little girls. So instead of taking the high road, they shoved in this superviolent montage that was sure to be screencapped and discussed by the fraction of the second. over and over.

17 hours ago, peach said:

Good point.  I never did understand what was going on when Camille followed Amma to the pig farm, and watched her take a pig away.  And the way Amma stared at her the last second, because she totally knew Camille was there.  I wasn't even sure that happened, because it was so weird and seemed like a hallucination.  And was never mentioned again.  Never thought about her maybe killing animals just to do it.

I think that the opening was out of sequence. It had the high schoolers  chasing down a scared piglet. I think she was picking out a piglet to torture like they did, chasing it. and ultimately falling on it and catching it. Everyone in that scene should burn in hell.

They chose to do an ending that could make a profit for them in the future, over making something good, and being respectful of their audience.   Adams was not going to do a sequel, but Im sure Scanlen would. And if TPTB could make money doing it, they were all for leaving it open ended.

As it ends here, Amma surprises Camille with that ludicrous, "Dont tell momma." So if there's going to be a sequel to SO, Camille can be killed off, most likely, and Scanlen be the star of the next installment. 

  So how does it feel, to invest in the character Camille after 8 episodes, only to have her potentially killed off?  Or to live with the fact that, because of her nearsightedness and incompetence, another innocent little girl got killed by her sister?

That was such an ugly ending, too. We think we're going to get to actually know a couple black characters who arent just there to show Camille in a good light, and they are silent screened and then immediately killed off. I stil have a bad taste in my mouth about their maid. They couldnt even bother to commit to showing whether she suspected anything or not. She might as well have been scenery, like most of the other people of color. Sitting outside a gas station. Sitting outside a row of businesses, sitting in a bar. They were used as background.

Anyway, they were led by their financial pocket toward that ending, but even then, it could have been done 1,000x better than the hokey jump cut to black & upbeat music.

[bijoux]

5 hours ago, peach said:

I thought the first half was legitimately terrifying, the scene at the dinner table with Camille staring down Adora was epic.  Then I thought she might really die.  I assumed she was sacrificing herself to prove Adora was poisoning them, but she has a bit of a death wish, and since I haven't read the book, I didn't know if she was going to survive.  That was nightmare territory, hearing someone at the door and not being able to scream for help.  And Amma just withdrawing into lala land and not helping her.  I felt so much relief when Richard and her boss saved her.  I'm not crazy about the abrupt ending but I thought the "don't tell mama" part was great, lol.  So psycho!  That actress makes my skin crawl. 

But, yes, questions abound.  Especially as to why Natalie got killed in Ashley's house.   Ashley didn't seem to be an accomplice, like the roller girls.  I guess when she found blood, she thought John really did it?  But wtf were they doing in Ashley's bedroom then?

I thought the biggest clues as to Amma and roller girls doing it was they were never afraid to skate all over the place when there was a serial killer on the loose, and the sly little comment they made about it, when they said "cool kids like us" didn't need to be afraid.  Because they did it.

Unfortunately, they didn't explain why Amma had naked rage either. 

It wasn’t Ashley’s bedroom. John was staying in her parents’ carriage house, which was presumably mostly empty until he moved in.

4 hours ago, SHD said:

 

When Alan made that comment to the chief about hoping he doesn't catch the family virus since he sees Adora more than he does, I was all "Oh, SNAP! You go, Alan!"

I was completely Team Vickery there. Sit your ass down, Alan, and say what you have to say. It’s the last episode and you’re only bringing up more unanswered questions. Asswipe.

1 hour ago, peach said:

So, last episode we were talking about the how the town was sort of under a spell.  I wonder if that's the meaning of the Sheriff Vickery not waking up on time and doing his morning routine that last day.  Adora's spell was being broken, by Camille.

I was wondering what the significance of that was. Why did we need to know they lost power overnight? The alarm clock didn’t go off, waking his wife, it was showing 12:00 as it does after a power outage until you reset it. And the fans weren’t working until he left the house. This explanation could also work with Adora’s arrest scene. Vickery is facilitating it going smoothly, not standing up for Adora in any way as might have been expected.

I did laugh mightily at him proclaiming both Adora and Camille seeking attention, only Camille being more dramatic about it! Where was he during Adora’s low rent production of distraught mother during Calhoun Day, Canada? Not to mention that Camille is basically trying to make herself invisible.

I felt a strong kinship with Richard when he proclaimed that the entire town was crazy or evil, si ce I said the same a while back. Only I added that I suspected it was a result of generations of inbreeding.

[LoveLeigh]

6 hours ago, Schmolioot said:

Just horrible. I presume laughter was not what they were going for.

And ruined for what? A jump scare and classic rock? Horrible.

Particularly without a season 2 to flesh this out or take the story in another direction...

Flynn is 100% a hack mystery writer.

Great writer of character and mood but a hack at actually writing a mystery 

I was not that invested in this series and watched it with one eye. However, I watched enough of it to determine this entire series was awful. 

"Don't tell mama." How trite and idiotic.

And that short scene inserted after the credits to show some form of "justice" or "what happens next" was so pathetically gimmicky. 

They should have done a two hour Lifetime movie. This show did not deserve 8 weeks of HBO's time. 

About the only good thing in it was the opening theme music and the scenes of the fictional "Wind Gap" which I think was filmed in beautiful Barnesville, GA. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by DakotaLavender
added comments

[Butless]

3 hours ago, bijoux said:

 

I was completely Team Vickery there. Sit your ass down, Alan, and say what you have to say. It’s the last episode and you’re only bringing up more unanswered questions. Asswipe.

I was wondering what the significance of that was. Why did we need to know they lost power overnight? The alarm clock didn’t go off, waking his wife, it was showing 12:00 as it does after a power outage until you reset it. And the fans weren’t working until he left the house. This explanation could also work with Adora’s arrest scene. Vickery is facilitating it going smoothly, not standing up for Adora in any way as might have been expected.

I did laugh mightily at him proclaiming both Adora and Camille seeking attention, only Camille being more dramatic about it! Where was he during Adora’s low rent production of distraught mother during Calhoun Day, Canada? Not to mention that Camille is basically trying to make herself invisible.

I felt a strong kinship with Richard when he proclaimed that the entire town was crazy or evil, si ce I said the same a while back. Only I added that I suspected it was a result of generations of inbreeding.

Yeah , I didnt get the point of the power going out either, unless it was to show as part of the fairytale, that Adora's spell was broken, as @peach said.

I thought Vickery said something like  "they want the attention, until they get it, and then they complain." I took that as meaning he had a brief affair with Adora and she pushed him away.  Or something about Camille being a promiscuous tease, maybe.  I did like the interaction between him and Alan, though, the two times it happened. Thought it was well done and funny, this time.

Oh, yeah; by the end of this, I was most empathetic with Dickie. Screw that town and all the people from it.

And you have got to be fucking kidding me, that we need to read a fucking article from Vanity Fair to figure out the damn show?? And I thought the asshole PTB in the Walking Dead franchise were completely full of shit, having to explain everything that happened on every episode ,on the Talking Dead in the last few seasons.  No viewer should have to do homework to figure out whats going on on your show! These people need to go and new ones brought in who aren't entitled,  lazy, arrogant, talentless hacks..

Edited August 27, 2018 by Buttless

[loki567]

Big disappointment. Basically, there was a good two-night, four hour miniseries here. Eight hours way too much. They spent so much time trying to pad the run time, they lost track of the main story only to do a quick cram for the finale.

And yeah, that ending left a bad taste in my mouth. It was very, "Haha! Got you!" like what? We just watched eight hours of slow, sad character study of a incredibly broken family. Why did the writers suddenly decide to get cute about it? You think the audience that stuck around didn't deserve some respect for their patience? Maybe some detail on what these developments meant for Camille, psychologically? Nope? Cute rock song? Okay. 

[Butless]

1 hour ago, loki567 said:

Big disappointment. Basically, there was a good two-night, four hour miniseries here. Eight hours way too much. They spent so much time trying to pad the run time, they lost track of the main story only to do a quick cram for the finale.

And yeah, that ending left a bad taste in my mouth. It was very, "Haha! Got you!" like what? We just watched eight hours of slow, sad character study of a incredibly broken family. Why did the writers suddenly decide to get cute about it? You think the audience that stuck around didn't deserve some respect for their patience? Maybe some detail on what these developments meant for Camille, psychologically? Nope? Cute rock song? Okay. 

I just read the Vanity Fair article where TPTB answer questions about the show's ending (link provided above in the thread).

The director Vallee referred to the ending as literally "the punchline of the show" :
 

Quote

 

Okay Then What’s With That Sudden Ending in the Show?

Independent of Vallée’s broader penchant for not lingering too long on the who, what, where, why of a murder mystery, the last line of the episode script written by Noxon and Flynn was always Amma’s “don’t tell mama.” Vallée calls it the “punchline” of the show.

 

 

Quote

 

How Did the Murders Themselves Wind Up in the End Credits?

Vallée admits that he didn’t want to show the murders on screen at all. Flynn and Noxon pushed back—worried that not showing anything would “leave such a bad taste in people’s mouth just from a mystery perspective. We had pitched all kinds of ideas of how to show that but not structure the whole episode so you lose that punchline of ‘don't tell mama.’”

 

Noxon goes on to flounder about, answering why they ended the show the way  they did.  And theyre all just lame excuses.  Because she and Gillian Flynn, the author of the  book, adapted the screenplay. And because they made it on HBO,  they had the time to do it. They even cut some episodes short, thanks to that HBO time flexibility.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Buttless

[BingeyKohan]

The only way I can sort of getting around to appreciating the ending is to think about how it stayed true to a major theme of the show: upending expectations about women. Think about our first view of Amma (near the woods, hanging out with her friends as Camille arrives). We don’t know it’s Amma, and neither does Camille - we just make typical assumptions about her, being a teenager, and kind of a b*tch, which is its own kind of expectation about women’s roles. Then our very last view, the woman in white disappearing into the same woods, now that we know who she really is. I also liked how her murderous streak in St Louis started after seeing Adora, touching her hand through the glass. A little heavy-handed (so to speak) that the murder of little girls flowed from one to the other.

it could also be that the flashes after the credits are not so much for our benefit to see what happened but to see how they’ll haunt Camille later. She won’t have all the info either, even if Amma confesses fully. So she’ll have to imagine for herself, and those scenes will play in her mind forever.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One small detail that made me laugh while simultaneously rolling my eyes was that even as Adora was being arrested and arguing with Vickery about it, Gayla ran to fetch her shoes, put them on the floor right in front of Adora, helped put her feet into them, and stood there to let Adora use her to balance as she put the requisite high heels on (because God forbid you go to the police station in flat shoes).

[ferjy]

5 hours ago, Buttless said:

These screencaps are horrendous. Im glad the makers of this show thought this through so well. Its not like these arent hoing to end up all over the dark parts of the web where men can fap over them.

Good God, I’d never have even thought of that. We were comparing the fences! 

[BingeyKohan]

Here’s a legit complaint: how did Amma get those teeth into the floor so only the tops showed? And then close the (wind)gaps? She hammered them in? Hired someone to do it? It looked pretty master crafter to me.

[ferjy]

8 hours ago, Beezella said:

Did everyone see that the ivory floor in the dolll house was made from TEETH?

Well yes, lol. That was part of the big reveal. (Sorry, maybe you were being facetious.)

[aemom]

I didn't read the book and I like Amy Adams. 

The ending was shit. I missed scenes in the end credits because this isn't a Marvel movie and I thought that was the end of that. 

They had so many scenes of Camille driving aimlessly and the show finished at the 50 minute mark. They couldn't use the last 10 minutes to properly finish the show?

What a disappointment. 

[BingeyKohan]

One more thing (I’m really not trying to be the show’s apologist, I had problems with it too - like Camille I am leaning toward kindness I guess): I liked how the ‘Milk’ episode title seemed to be about the presumably poisoned milk Camille was served at dinner, but then it was an empty jug of milk that led her to the teeth in the dollhouse, after she spotted the bedspread Mae made in the trash, right after hearing the girls had their first fight (and already having seen an ugly side of Amma at the dinner at Curry’s). I thought those (ivory) dominoes fell into each other nicely.

Edited August 27, 2018 by BingeyKohan

[bijoux]

30 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

Here’s a legit complaint: how did Amma get those teeth into the floor so only the tops showed? And then close the (wind)gaps? She hammered them in? Hired someone to do it? It looked pretty master crafter to me.

I think they were pushed into a soft surface. Camille got that one out very easily.

[Schmolioot]

2 hours ago, Buttless said:

They chose to do an ending that could make a profit for them in the future, over making something good, and being respectful of their audience.   Adams was not going to do a sequel, but Im sure Scanlen would. And if TPTB could make money doing it, they were all for leaving it open ended.

As it ends here, Amma surprises Camille with that ludicrous, "Dont tell momma." So if there's going to be a sequel to SO, Camille can be killed off, most likely, and Scanlen be the star of the next installment. 

  So how does it feel, to invest in the character Camille after 8 episodes, only to have her potentially killed off?  Or to live with the fact that, because of her nearsightedness and incompetence, another innocent little girl got killed by her sister?

That was such an ugly ending, too. We think we're going to get to actually know a couple black characters who arent just there to show Camille in a good light, and they are silent screened and then immediately killed off. I stil have a bad taste in my mouth about their maid. They couldnt even bother to commit to showing whether she suspected anything or not. She might as well have been scenery, like most of the other people of color. Sitting outside a gas station. Sitting outside a row of businesses, sitting in a bar. They were used as background.

Anyway, they were led by their financial pocket toward that ending, but even then, it could have been done 1,000x better than the hokey jump cut to black & upbeat music.

There were ways to have a season 2 without ending it like this. Had the Amma reveal been teased out slowly over a second season I could’ve gone with it.

One of the themes of this show was that people (men in particular) constantly underestimate women. I think you could have explored that with Camille in a season 2. She is the one who most thought the killer was a woman but in season 2 she also wouldn’t want to believe Amma did it so that might’ve been interesting.

 I don’t think Amma would kill Camille. She loves her and wants her attention above all else. If Adams said yes to a second season I imagine at least part of it would be them on the run as I don’t think Camille would turn her in and doesn’t want to lose her

[Butless]

1 hour ago, ferjy said:

Good God, I’d never have even thought of that. We were comparing the fences! 

Oh I didnt mean the posters screencaps. I thought they were being pulled off a search engine.  Like, they were popping up all over the net now, because viewers were just as confused as we were, as to what really was happening in that montage edit.

 

 My criticism was directed at the makers of SO. Thye didnt want to exloit little girl's murders, and by throwing that smash edit up there, they guaranteed these stills of screen caps would be out there. That people would have to pause and inch over what was happening, which makes their deaths very gruesome. 

What TPTB ended up doing on this show, was be disrespectful of the little girl's deaths, and raise Amma to some kind of charming anti-hero, especially with that quasi-comedic ending.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Buttless

[Schmolioot]

6 hours ago, peach said:

Yeah, that part was like...wut?  Didn't really fit with the character, either, imo. I would think Camille's struggles in raising Amma would be related to her own lack of boundaries and immaturity, like when she did drugs with Amma.  Amma was psychologically the more powerful of the two, she was just limited by having a 13yo mind.

Edited to add that Camille was also drunk when she was running around with teenagers, and they clearly portrayed her as sober and functional back in St Louis

That part of her article was interesting and again might’ve been a good idea to further explore. I took it more that Camille is self aware enough to understand that she’s not just taking care of Amma because she loves her or it’s the right thing to do or whatever.

She understands that amma is filling a very large emotional void for her and that she likes that void being filled. Camille made an Adora like comment at dinner when Amma mentioned being an anchorwoman or something and said to the effect “let’s worry about high school first”. That’s not a completely abnormal thing to say to your kid but given the context of the article I think it was meant to be more literal that Camille doesn’t want to think about college because Amma just got here and she doesn’t want to let her go lest that hole in her heart come back.

Again, this was all really nice stuff that could’ve been wrapped up in a very satisfying way instead of Amma hulking out 

[BingeyKohan]

19 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I think they were pushed into a soft surface. Camille got that one out very easily.

You’re probably right actually but the one Camille picked up was laying halfway under a doll bed loose, not part of the ‘floor.’

[Empress1]

I follow Alan Sepinwall on Twitter and yesterday during the day, he tweeted to watch the finale all the way through the credits. I'm glad he did because I almost never watch credits. The only time I make a point to is in the big comic book movies because they almost always have a post-credits scene setting up the next one.

One show vs. book difference I actually liked: 

Spoiler

In the book, there's no closure between Richard and Camille. He sees her scars - he has a warrant to search the house, so the dramatic rescue doesn't happen in the book - and is basically like "Ew, what is all that? You're a cutter?" and she never sees him again. I liked their scene in the hospital in the show.

Agree with y'all that the pacing was bad and the ending was too. I knew whodunnit and why, and it was clear a few episodes ago that the show was stalling. I can see why they wouldn't want to do an "And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!" ending, but that ending was terrible.

Spoiler

In the book, Amma is arrested and Camille cuts that day. The book has made a point of talking about this one patch of uncut skin on Camille's back and on the day Amma is arrested, Camille attacks it. Her boss walks in as Camille is going for her face, and her boss and his wife take her in as a daughter.