S04.E03 Something Beautiful

[jnymph]

In regards to the unwanted vacuum cleaner gift:  I kept thinking of that Robert Forster character in Breaking Bad.   The guy Saul knows that 'cleans up' peoples backgrounds & makes them disappear, used a vacuum cleaner supply shop as a front.  I couldn't help but think of some sort of connection there.

 

I still think it was Kim that wrote the letter.    Her reaction was just so weird to be anything else. 

 

eta - too many "couldn't help but think" quotes. 

Edited August 22, 2018 by jnymph

[Captanne]

Gale was singing Tom Lehrer's Elements song set to Gilbert and Sullivan (operetta.)  That is Tom Lehrer, a wonderful pianist and comedian.  His music is well worth listening to -- my personal fave was "When I Hold Your Hand in Mind, Dear" (and continues, "I press it to my lips.  I take a healthy bite from ... the dainty fingertips.  My joy would be complete, dear....if you were only here.  Instead I keep your hand, dear....as a lovely souvenir."

Yeah.  Awesome!

He also did a song called "Poisoning Pigeons in the Park."

 

Elements song (set to Gilbert and Sullivan):  

 

 

Pigeons:

Edited August 22, 2018 by Captanne

[Captanne]

I also thought Kim must have doctored the letter (ie, written a version herself.)  Her reaction was remarkable.  On the other hand, the letter was just so unlike Chuck (note, it was undated and not signed with love) -- but it was so widely off the mark. That letter didn't reflect at all what we witnessed between them or the way Chuck treated him.  Which makes me wonder if Kim didn't doctor it and was just overcome with WTFs?  That, perhaps, she had read Chuck wrong or we all had read him wrong and Jimmy's unrelenting faith in and kindness to Chuck was proven right after all.  That, for all Chuck's cruelty to him in life, Jimmy held hope for wiggle room and so did Chuck in his heart of hearts.

I say this because I have an estranged elder sibling and, very loosely, (in the past) put myself in the role of Jimmy to my sibling's version of Chuck.  I finally gave up.  Jimmy didn't.  So, I'm projecting a bit because (although highly unlikely) I could see a letter coming to me like that some day.  Probably not -- but you never know when you're in a situation like that -- what is going on in the other guy's head.

[Bryce Lynch]

2 hours ago, jww said:

"I remember quite clearly the day you came home from the hospital. You can't imagine the joy on Mom's face. I can honestly say I never saw her happier than she was on that day. "

How old would Chuck have to be to be able to  discern the " joy on Mom's face, never saw her happier"?  I doubt a five  or even a ten year old would be that sophisticated in reading emotions.  We do know from the obit Charles was in college when he was 14 so if he was a mature teenager when Jimmy was born it is likely he would be away at school when Jimmy came home.

Chuck probably would have been about 8 to 10 years old.  Do you really think a 10 year old can't tell when his Mom is really, really happy?  I think even babies can discern emotions through facial expressions,  though they wouldn't remember them years later

Again, the letter was apparently written at a time when Jimmy and his relationship with Chuck were at their best, at least in Chuck's eyes.   Chuck might have also been subconsciously venting some of his "Mom loved Jimmy better" angst, but I think he meant it as a compliment and to make Jimmy feel good.  If Chuck had died in a car wreck, while Jimmy was still working in the HHM mail room., I think Jimmy would been overwhelmed with positive emotions, knowing that he made Chuck proud.  The first thing Jimmy said after telling Chuck he passed the bar, was "Are you proud of me?"  It is only the context of what happened years later that makes the note seem fake or like it is trying to hurt Jimmy.  

Funny, in the BB episode "Fly" a despondent Walt tried to figure out what the perfect time for him to die would have been, where his family would have been provided for, but they wouldn't have found out about all his crimes.   Perhaps, the time shortly after writing that note would have been the perfect time for Chuck to die.  No divorce, no crippling phobia, no public humiliation, no rift with Jimmy and Howard.  Rebecca, Jimmy, Howard and everyone would have remembered him fondly.   Rebecca would have been well provided or and Jimmy would have been on his feet, gainfully employed, and (more or less) reformed from his previous life of petty crime.  

Edited August 22, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[Conan Troutman]

On 8/21/2018 at 4:39 PM, shapeshifter said:

Both this week's episode thread and last week's have us obsessing over The Letter—as are reviewers elsewhere. Are we making a bigger deal out of it than intended?

The letter itself is no big deal at all. It's just exactly what the show claims it to be - a letter from Chuck to Jimmy. Never understood what all the fuss was about, especially if it could be fake. I think people are just conditioned by shitty TV dramas to expect some kind of plot twisty revelation when a seemingly mundane thing like a letter gets a lot of attention, when all the interesting stuff is in how Jimmy and Kim react to it and that was why the show amped up the tension. 

[Bannon]

50 minutes ago, Conan Troutman said:

The letter itself is no big deal at all. It's just exactly what the show claims it to be - a letter from Chuck to Jimmy. Never understood what all the fuss was about, especially if it could be fake. I think people are just conditioned by shitty TV dramas to expect some kind of plot twisty revelation when a seemingly mundane thing like a letter gets a lot of attention, when all the interesting stuff is in how Jimmy and Kim react to it and that was why the show amped up the tension. 

I agree. It seems to me that the purpose of the letter is to showcase how differently Jimmy and Kim process grief, and I think the central theme of this show, from episode one, is how grief motivates and changes people, in the same way that the central theme of BB was how malformed pride does the same.

Jimmy is burying his grief under a superthick, superhard, epoxy of cynicism, nihilism, and anger, and it is going to lead to utter disaster for himself and others, some complete innocents.

Kim is forthrightly filled with sadness, and it appears so far that her grief may be causing her to sincerely  question the path she has chosen so far. What will be the outcome of this frank exercise in self examination is really the most important question this drama has to answer at this time (I can't envision Nacho getting out alive, but if the writers pull it off in a credible, interesting, manner, kudos to them).

[SunnyBeBe]

Did anyone notice that the copy machine manager told the Venezia's pizza phone person that he wanted his sliced.  lol 

[Bryce Lynch]

Just now, SunnyBeBe said:

Did anyone notice that the copy machine manager told the Venezia's pizza phone person that he wanted his sliced.  lol 

Yeah, I missed that when viewing, but read it online.  I wonder how much extra they charge to slice their pies?  Seems like an unnecessary expense.  I'm sure he had a pair of scissors in the office. :)

[ShadowFacts]

I think what the letter says is a big deal, beyond abilities to process grief and where it propels people.  For Chuck to put in writing something that we had seen him struggle with, that Jimmy was favored by their mother, was an objective statement about how much happiness he saw Jimmy bring her, and was a generous thing to express to Jimmy who he had been at odds with often.  He didn't have to write a letter at all but to include that was huge.  And I don't see it as being at odds with a $5,000 bequest.  I just don't see anything wrong with that -- especially if the will was written before all the electromagnetic issues and the extra care giving.  In my family anyway, bequests to siblings just don't happen, childless people give to their nieces and nephews, etc.  Everything Chuck wrote was a window into what could have been, as Bryce Lynch alluded to above. 

[Macnyc]

I love the show, but this episode had too many head-scratchers.

It's okay if I don't know what's going on initially, but I like when things dawn on me gradually. It's a testament to how well this show is written. But in this episode, there are so many things up in the air. We're all debating if Chuck wrote the letter or not, and why Jimmy's reaction to it was so strange, and the reason why Kim decided to go to the courthouse. I guess all will be revealed in time! Patience isn't my strong suit, as you may have guessed.

I'm also not a big fan of the cartel scenes. That's the reason I watched only three episodes of BB before giving up. It was just too violent and distressing for me. I liked BCS because I could watch great TV without all the violence, but now BCS is gradually catching up (which I guess is logical).

Also, this one plot point seems a bit sloppy to me: We watched Arturo die of suffocation. (Yikes!) Then Gus's people took his body, kept it somewhat cold with ice packs, propped up it behind the wheel of a car and then shot at it, to make it seem that he was killed by gunfire. 

Would all this really fool a competent ME? Isn't it pretty obvious when someone dies of suffocation? And that the body was moved? Don't MEs look beyond the superficial? Or are we to assume the MEs in Albuquerque are incompetent and/or corrupt?

Edited August 22, 2018 by Macnyc

[Bryce Lynch]

18 hours ago, Macnyc said:

I love the show, but this episode had too many head-scratchers.

It's okay if I don't know what's going on initially, but I like when things dawn on me gradually. It's a testament to how well this show is written. But in this episode, there are so many things up in the air. We're all debating if Chuck wrote the letter or not, and why Jimmy's reaction to it was so strange, and the reason why Kim decided to go to the courthouse. I guess all will be revealed in time! Patience isn't my strong suit, as you may have guessed.

I'm also not a big fan of the cartel scenes. That's the reason I watched only three episodes of BB before giving up. It was just too violent and distressing for me. I liked BCS because I could watch great TV without all the violence, but now BCS is gradually catching up (which I guess is logical).

Also, this one plot point seems a bit sloppy to me: We watched Arturo die of suffocation. (Yikes!) Then Gus's people took his body, kept it somewhat cold with ice packs, propped up it behind the wheel of a car and then shot at it, to make it seem that he was killed by gunfire. 

Would all this really fool a competent ME? Isn't it pretty obvious when someone dies of suffocation? And that the body was moved? Don't MEs look beyond the superficial? Or are we to assume the MEs in Albuquerque are incompetent and/or corrupt?

 

I was thinking the same thing, until they torched the car, with Arturo's body in it.  I am assuming his body will be so badly burned that the ME will not be able to tell how he died.  

Edited August 23, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[scenario]

16 minutes ago, Macnyc said:

I love the show, but this episode had too many head-scratchers.

It's okay if I don't know what's going on initially, but I like when things dawn on me gradually. It's a testament to how well this show is written. But in this episode, there are so many things up in the air. We're all debating if Chuck wrote the letter or not, and why Jimmy's reaction to it was so strange, and the reason why Kim decided to go to the courthouse. I guess all will be revealed in time! Patience isn't my strong suit, as you may have guessed.

I'm also not a big fan of the cartel scenes. That's the reason I watched only three episodes of BB before giving up. It was just too violent and distressing for me. I liked BCS because I could watch great TV without all the violence, but now BCS is gradually catching up (which I guess is logical).

Also, this one plot point seems a bit sloppy to me: We watched Arturo die of suffocation. (Yikes!) Then Gus's people took his body, kept it somewhat cold with ice packs, propped up it behind the wheel of a car and then shot at it, to make it seem that he was killed by gunfire. 

Would all this really fool a competent ME? Isn't it pretty obvious when someone dies of suffocation? And that the body was moved? Don't MEs look beyond the superficial? Or are we to assume the MEs in Albuquerque are incompetent and/or corrupt?

They shot the body and then burned it in a rather intense fire. I can see a competent ME missing it. Body burned to a crisp with a hundred bullet holes in it. Why waste time and money looking any more?

[Macnyc]

Yes, thanks, Bryce! The torching had slipped my mind. There won't be much evidence left after that.

[Tighthead]

I did wonder if the twins would be confused that Nacho was alive and the driver looked freezer burned and grey. 

[SunnyBeBe]

2 hours ago, Macnyc said:

I love the show, but this episode had too many head-scratchers.

It's okay if I don't know what's going on initially, but I like when things dawn on me gradually. It's a testament to how well this show is written. But in this episode, there are so many things up in the air. We're all debating if Chuck wrote the letter or not, and why Jimmy's reaction to it was so strange, and the reason why Kim decided to go to the courthouse. I guess all will be revealed in time! Patience isn't my strong suit, as you may have guessed.

I'm also not a big fan of the cartel scenes. That's the reason I watched only three episodes of BB before giving up. It was just too violent and distressing for me. I liked BCS because I could watch great TV without all the violence, but now BCS is gradually catching up (which I guess is logical).

Also, this one plot point seems a bit sloppy to me: We watched Arturo die of suffocation. (Yikes!) Then Gus's people took his body, kept it somewhat cold with ice packs, propped up it behind the wheel of a car and then shot at it, to make it seem that he was killed by gunfire. 

Would all this really fool a competent ME? Isn't it pretty obvious when someone dies of suffocation? And that the body was moved? Don't MEs look beyond the superficial? Or are we to assume the MEs in Albuquerque are incompetent and/or corrupt?

 

I was under the impression that all the fake shooting was done only for the benefit of the cousins for when they showed up.   Guss's people knew the car would likely be set on fire and even more damage done, once the other guys arrived.  Would the cousins ever get word on any specific findings about the body and cause of death? I'm not sure that they would think to go digging around for it. And, if the dead man's lungs are still intact, the most the ME would be able to tell is that they didn't have smoke in them, so, that might indicate that he died of another cause before the fire.  And, wasn't he alive slightly when they shot him too? I know he was suffocated, but, then didn't they shoot him too?  So, maybe, there would be multiple potential causes of death, but, not any specific cause. Manner of death homicide. Law enforcement would know automatically what kind of killing it was. 

They really made Nacho suffer.  I think I would buy that he was really attacked.  He came very close to dying.  

Edited August 22, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Clanstarling]

On 8/21/2018 at 11:15 AM, jww said:

I first became aware of Hummels from Slaughterhouse 5 when Billy Pilgrim and his fellow American  POWS were working to clear the rubble after the Dresden fire bombing when Billy's best friend  picked up a Hummel  from the ruble saying his wife collected them and put it in his pocket; a German saw him and came over and shot him dead for looting.

That was a heck of a scene. I remember it well. I have a Hummel as a remembrance of my mother. I bought it for her years ago, because it looked just like a photo of her as a girl (she was Austrian). Now I keep it - I think it's worth about what I paid for it, but it doesn't matter - I'm not collecting, it's just a piece of my Mom.

8 hours ago, SailorGirl said:

Also, something that occurred to me -- I think the "how much I respect what you have made of yourself" and "proud we share the name McGill" comments in the letter are even more of a push toward leaving Jimmy McGill behind and becoming Saul Goodman -- something like, "oh really Chuck? Actions speak louder than words and you showed me how you really felt. Fuck you -- here's what I think about your bullshit letter Chuck." Better call Saul! 

I probably project WAY too much into this whole Jimmy finally living his life on his terms, doing what is right for him, and not feeling guilty (or caring anymore) that he's not living up to what Chuck thinks he should be, nor he is allowing Chuck's opinion to make him feel guilty about it. But . . . 

here's why I'm reading this into Jimmy's behavior around the will and the letter.

I lived with this very scenario for years (although I didn't become a "criminal" lawyer by any means -- I'm just living my life the way I want to, not the way family members think I should). Once I finally stopped caring about their opinions, stopped beating myself up wondering what was so wrong with me, and started living my life the way I wanted to, I became a much happier person. The less I cared about what they thought, the harder they pushed and the nastier they got. People with control issues LOSE it when you take back the control.  Of course it bothers me that I ultimately ended up having no relationship with my immediate family, but in the bigger picture, I am much better off, my world is a much better place, and I am a much happier person. It wouldn't bother me a bit on any fundamental emotional level if two of them chose the "out" that Chuck took. "oh, that's sad." Moving on . . .

We know Jimmy was loving life as Saul Goodman, at least until the BB world crashes to an end and he has to go to Omaha. And shouldn't we all try to be happy in our lives, so long as we aren't hurting ourselves or others? Until Walt and company entered his world, Saul was a happy guy! 
__________________

Dear Jimmy,

I have left many things unsaid in our relationship through the years. Rather than allow these unspoken thoughts to die with me, I’ve chosen to record them here for you. I hope you will take my words in the spirit in which they are intended.

I remember quite clearly the day you came home from the hospital. You can’t imagine the joy on mom’s face. I can honestly say I never saw her happier than she was on that day. You brought a shine to our life that nothing else ever did and I’m glad of that.

We have not always seen eye to eye. I expect that will continue to be so in the future, however, nothing will ever change the fact that we are brothers - flesh and blood. And though we are very different people, I want you to know how much I respect what you have made of yourself in these last few years. You have taken the opportunity I gave you in the mailroom and you have run with it, becoming a valued member of the HHM family. For all the problems in your past, I’m proud we share the name McGill. I sincerely admire your energy and resilience. I used to worry about you finding a place in the world, but I’m not worried about that anymore. I’m certain now that no matter what the future may bring, you’ll land on your feet and I hope when you read this, you remember me not only as your brother, but as a person you knew was always in your corner.

Chuck

I also think that Chuck's "pride" might spark Jimmy's name change for the same reason.

I also project a lot onto this scenario, different circumstances, but because of my own experience, I totally get Jimmy's detached reaction. I reacted pretty much the same way when the person in my life died. I've never once cried. For others, yes. But not for that one.  Detachment is a survival mechanism.

7 hours ago, SailorGirl said:

As well, how would Chuck have known this was the happiest she'd ever been?  Its highly probable their mother was equally as excited when she had Chuck and he was a baby, but, oh yeah Chuck, you fucking asshole, you were a newborn baby and wouldn't be able to remember/have seen that! And if Chuck was 14 when Jimmy came along, he's just passed puberty, may be having some oedipal issues, and along comes this tiny little thing that takes his mother's attention away when he subconsciously desires it more than ever. That gets suppressed and never dealt with and it comes out in the form of jealousy and attempts to control the thing that he thinks took away his mother's attention. Whether real or imagined. After all, fathers provide the first impression of men for their daughters and mothers provide the first impression of women for their sons.  (hope I'm saying that right -- I'm by no means a psychotherapist). 

Plus, some (hopefully most) would realize, oh yeah, that was when we were kids, and we're adults now and let it freakin' go. But not Chuck. . . 

I really hate Chuck. :-D

He didn't say it was the happiest she'd ever been, just that it was the happiest he'd ever seen her. And even though am no fan of Chuck, I think he truly did love his little brother - and the love was probably untarnished until he stopped being the precious child and became the more complicated pre-pubescent person.

5 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Chuck probably would have been about 8 to 10 years old.  Do you really think a 10 year old can't tell when his Mom is really, really happy?  I think even babies can discern emotions through facial expressions,  though they wouldn't remember them years later

Again, the letter was apparently written at a time when Jimmy and his relationship with Chuck were at their best, at least in Chuck's eyes.   Chuck might have also been subconsciously venting some of his "Mom loved Jimmy better" angst, but I think he meant it as a compliment and to make Jimmy feel good.  If Chuck had died in a car wreck, while Jimmy was still working in the HHM mail room., I think Jimmy would been overwhelmed with positive emotions, knowing that he made Chuck proud.  The first thing Jimmy said after telling Chuck he passed the bar, was "Are you proud of me?"  It is only the context of what happened years later that makes the note seem fake or like it is trying to hurt Jimmy. 

Agreed.

[ShadowFacts]

17 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I also think that Chuck's "pride" might spark Jimmy's name change for the same reason.

I also project a lot onto this scenario, different circumstances, but because of my own experience, I totally get Jimmy's detached reaction. I reacted pretty much the same way when the person in my life died. I've never once cried. For others, yes. But not for that one.  Detachment is a survival mechanism.

I interpreted his detached reaction with the letter as a continuation of his "it's your cross to bear" comment and attitude with Howard.  He's deflecting.  I'm now thinking his name change might have more than one cause.  Not just disassociating from Chuck; there's also an element of self-loathing.  Inwardly he can't escape his part in the cascade of events that began with his document tampering, so he punishes himself in a sense by shedding that Jimmy who was adored by his mother and loved by the brother who was once proud to share a name. 

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

7 hours ago, Captanne said:

Gale was singing Tom Lehrer's Elements song set to Gilbert and Sullivan (operetta.)  That is Tom Lehrer, a wonderful pianist and comedian.

Thank you for pointing this out. It's actually from Pirates of Penzance and the original song is "I am the Very Model of a Modern Major General".  He just brilliantly changed the lyrics. (random classical music fan here) 

IMHO the letter was written by Chuck before he got super sick. And did anybody else think Chuck was a little hurt when he wrote about how happy their mother was when she brought Jimmy home? Almost wistful? Like now Jimmy's the favorite? And so Chuck grudgingly had to admit that he was eventually proud of Jimmy? 

[pricklypear]

Regarding the letter, I have no idea whether or not it was doctored, but I certainly get both Kim's and Jimmy's reactions. When you've dealt with someone with that level of mental disorder for so long, especially having been their primary taker, it takes a lot out of you. Given Jimmy's last conversation with Chuck, I can see where he immediately detached himself of all emotion. That's hard to just turn back on. It's almost a survival mechanism. (I've been there.)

As for Kim, I see all of this as a long period of increasing guilt over how she acquired Mesa Verde in the first place and what they did to Chuck. She knows Jimmy "cheated" to get her that job (even if it was stolen out from under her in the first place). And then their dismantling of Chuck on the witness stand over an issue she knew was predicated on a lie. She blew up at Paige, who was practically giddy over Chuck's meltdown. I remember she said something like, "All we did is tear down a sick man." I can't remember the exact words. Chuck's courtroom breakdown, at least quite possibly in Kim's mind, led to his professional, and then his actual death. Something like that will slowly eat away at you over time. That's at least what I sensed when she was looking at the Mesa Verde models and kind of freaking out. Yes, it could be that she feels overwhelmed and trapped, but I suspect, also, that guilt is starting to consume her. If she was already feeling this way, and then she hears a letter written by Chuck -- which she thought was going to be scathing, petty, and hurtful, but was actually something almost sweet and heartfelt -- it's no wonder that she was overcome with emotion. 

Kim is a tightly wound character to begin with (you can even literally see it in her "work ponytail"). I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up having a nervous breakdown. 

[PeterPirate]

1 hour ago, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

Thank you for pointing this out. It's actually from Pirates of Penzance and the original song is "I am the Very Model of a Modern Major General".  He just brilliantly changed the lyrics. (random classical music fan here) 

IMHO the letter was written by Chuck before he got super sick. And did anybody else think Chuck was a little hurt when he wrote about how happy their mother was when she brought Jimmy home? Almost wistful? Like now Jimmy's the favorite? And so Chuck grudgingly had to admit that he was eventually proud of Jimmy? 

I thought it was from Iolanthe.  Or maybe HMS Pinafore.  (ETA:  That's a reference to The West Wing.)

Edited August 23, 2018 by PeterPirate

[Ellaria]

11 hours ago, Bannon said:

I agree. It seems to me that the purpose of the letter is to showcase how differently Jimmy and Kim process grief, and I think the central theme of this show, from episode one, is how grief motivates and changes people, in the same way that the central theme of BB was how malformed pride does the same.

I agree. I find no reason to question the authenticity of the letter. It is about their reactions to its contents. 

Jimmy's unemotional response to the letter is as much of a step on the path to becoming Saul as is the flawed Hummel caper. Unfortunately, his response is also what has created Gene - a frightened, regretful and lonely man. Kim responds exactly the opposite of Jimmy. Her reaction is the sum total of her mixed emotions about Chuck, Jimmy, HHM, etc.

This show's narrative structure continues to intrigue me. The conclusion of BCS is not an endpoint in the story for Jimmy, Mike, Gus and some minor characters but rather a midpoint. However, it will be an endpoint - of sorts - for Kim, Howard, Nacho and, of course, Chuck. It is a unique perspective on the choices that these characters will make. With every interaction between Kim and Jimmy, I find myself wondering what will be  "the last straw" that drives her away. 

Like many others, I don't believe that Nacho makes it out alive. Frankly, I'm a little tired of cartel business. Without Walter and Jesse bumbling around in that world, it becomes largely what we know about the drug trade (cruel, violent and opportunistic). As much as I enjoy Gus, the assorted baddies (and pawns) that keep popping up are often tough to watch because we know the fate that awaits some of them (Gale, Tyrus, Victor). 

[BetyBee]

17 hours ago, Bannon said:

I agree. It seems to me that the purpose of the letter is to showcase how differently Jimmy and Kim process grief, and I think the central theme of this show, from episode one, is how grief motivates and changes people, in the same way that the central theme of BB was how malformed pride does the same.

Jimmy is burying his grief under a superthick, superhard, epoxy of cynicism, nihilism, and anger, and it is going to lead to utter disaster for himself and others, some complete innocents.

Kim is forthrightly filled with sadness, and it appears so far that her grief may be causing her to sincerely  question the path she has chosen so far. What will be the outcome of this frank exercise in self examination is really the most important question this drama has to answer at this time (I can't envision Nacho getting out alive, but if the writers pull it off in a credible, interesting, manner, kudos to them).

I agree too.  I don't think the letter is doctored at all and believe it to be from Chuck, written when Jimmy was still in the mailroom.  I think Kim's reaction is because it wasn't the hateful diatribe against Jimmy, that she expected.  She worked with Chuck for some time and probably liked him well enough once upon a time.  I can understand her tears.  She most likely feels remorse about her part in taking Chuck down.  Jimmy is bad news for her and I think their relationship is nearly over.  I'm more interested in her mysterious trip to the courthouse.  

[qtpye]

I actually do not see a tragic ending for Kim. I think she becomes relatively successful professionally and moves on with her life. She will be happy being alone or will find someone who will not drag her into the gutter the way Jimmy will when he becomes Saul. I loved Jimmy and Kim together but she needs to run far away from Saul and he is going down that route. The truth is if she stubbornly clung to Saul she would of ruined her life.

13 hours ago, pricklypear said:

Regarding the letter, I have no idea whether or not it was doctored, but I certainly get both Kim's and Jimmy's reactions. When you've dealt with someone with that level of mental disorder for so long, especially having been their primary taker, it takes a lot out of you. Given Jimmy's last conversation with Chuck, I can see where he immediately detached himself of all emotion. That's hard to just turn back on. It's almost a survival mechanism. (I've been there.)

As for Kim, I see all of this as a long period of increasing guilt over how she acquired Mesa Verde in the first place and what they did to Chuck. She knows Jimmy "cheated" to get her that job (even if it was stolen out from under her in the first place). And then their dismantling of Chuck on the witness stand over an issue she knew was predicated on a lie. She blew up at Paige, who was practically giddy over Chuck's meltdown. I remember she said something like, "All we did is tear down a sick man." I can't remember the exact words. Chuck's courtroom breakdown, at least quite possibly in Kim's mind, led to his professional, and then his actual death. Something like that will slowly eat away at you over time. That's at least what I sensed when she was looking at the Mesa Verde models and kind of freaking out. Yes, it could be that she feels overwhelmed and trapped, but I suspect, also, that guilt is starting to consume her. If she was already feeling this way, and then she hears a letter written by Chuck -- which she thought was going to be scathing, petty, and hurtful, but was actually something almost sweet and heartfelt -- it's no wonder that she was overcome with emotion. 

Kim is a tightly wound character to begin with (you can even literally see it in her "work ponytail"). I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up having a nervous breakdown. 

I wonder if she will come clean to Paige and the other guy about what actually went down.

7 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I agree. I find no reason to question the authenticity of the letter. It is about their reactions to its contents. 

Jimmy's unemotional response to the letter is as much of a step on the path to becoming Saul as is the flawed Hummel caper. Unfortunately, his response is also what has created Gene - a frightened, regretful and lonely man. Kim responds exactly the opposite of Jimmy. Her reaction is the sum total of her mixed emotions about Chuck, Jimmy, HHM, etc.

This show's narrative structure continues to intrigue me. The conclusion of BCS is not an endpoint in the story for Jimmy, Mike, Gus and some minor characters but rather a midpoint. However, it will be an endpoint - of sorts - for Kim, Howard, Nacho and, of course, Chuck. It is a unique perspective on the choices that these characters will make. With every interaction between Kim and Jimmy, I find myself wondering what will be  "the last straw" that drives her away. 

Like many others, I don't believe that Nacho makes it out alive. Frankly, I'm a little tired of cartel business. Without Walter and Jesse bumbling around in that world, it becomes largely what we know about the drug trade (cruel, violent and opportunistic). As much as I enjoy Gus, the assorted baddies (and pawns) that keep popping up are often tough to watch because we know the fate that awaits some of them (Gale, Tyrus, Victor). 

I agree with you about the cartel. If I was interested in the dirty dealings of the drug world, I would watch Narcos.  Walter White and Jessie Pinkman seemed to be the last guys in the world that should get involved in such a dangerous life and that is one of the reasons BB was so brilliant.

As much as I like the actor who plays Nacho, he really did this to himself. He is the son of a hard-working immigrant (I am also a child of a hard-working immigrant) who worked his ass off to provide for his family and built a respectable car upholstery business. It was a slap in the face that his foolish son is needlessly embracing a life that the father tried so damn hard to escape. Nacho really could have had a nice life but he chose this. Did he really think he was going to be able to outsmart this band of killers and thugs (and I include Gus in that group)?  I also like Mike, but do not need to see him transform himself to Gus Fring's number one henchman to earn money 

Spoiler

for his granddaughter that we know she will never receive. 

I have no sympathy for him either. He is choosing to be an active part of a horrible organization and is unlike Walter White, he has no delusions of noble intentions. Mike is too straightforward for that type of BS. I am afraid as this show progresses more of each episode will be devoted to the Cartel than Jimmy.

[dshgr]

Great synopsis. But as a car geek I'm irritated because the car is an Oldsmobile 442, not a Chevrolet Chevelle.

[LoneHaranguer]

13 hours ago, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

And did anybody else think Chuck was a little hurt when he wrote about how happy their mother was when she brought Jimmy home?

Not really. It's boilerplate. It's exactly what you might hear at a wedding reception when the father of the groom toasts his son. Similarly from an older brother if dad isn't around, or at a party for a major event, like graduating from college. Basically, the letter contains all of the banalities that Chuck couldn't bring himself to say, even pro forma. Something had to trigger Chuck to write the letter. It was probably when Jimmy got his law degree or passed the bar, but somehow distinguishing himself in the mail room works too in a pinch.

[peeayebee]

7 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Like many others, I don't believe that Nacho makes it out alive. 

But... 

Spoiler

In BB Saul says to Walt and Jesse "It was Ignacio." That likely is Ignacio, so it seems like Nacho is still around in BB.

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

But... 

  Hide contents

In BB Saul says to Walt and Jesse "It was Ignacio." That likely is Ignacio, so it seems like Nacho is still around in BB.

Unless Nacho was sent on a trip to Belize already, and Saul was just conveniently blaming it on the dead guy.

[SunnyBeBe]

Jimmy was mom's favorite, right? Wasn't there some deception when she died in the hospital by Chuck, so that Jimmy wouldn't know that mom was asking for him on her death bed?

[Bannon]

The more I think about it, the more I think the transformation of Jimmy McGill is in some ways more interesting than the transformation of Walter White. Yes, Walter's change is superficially more dramatic, but I think Jimmy's change is more emotionally interesting. Walter starts and ends as a very intelligent guy with an ocean of maladaptive pride which causes him to interact with people very ineffectively; the cancer diagnosis just diverts him in a highly criminal direction, without making much of a change in who he is.

Jimmy's always been in love with the con  of course, but he starts as someone whose hierarchy of values has the esteem of his brother at the top, along with being in the company of Kim. Hence his willingness to labor in the mail room at HHM for 7 years, without playing the con. Once it begins to be revealed that he will never have the esteem of his brother, his hierarchy begins to be destroyed, and pain of loss changes Jimmy, even with regards to his love of the con. It will no longer be enough to rip off people he meets in bars, who already have larceny in their hearts. Jimmy is like Heath Ledger's Joker now, his anger and pain compels him to want to burn it all down, for the sheer chaos it creates. A "criminal" lawyer has a great platform for that, and losing Kim will complete the change.

[Ellaria]

25 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

But... 

  Hide contents

In BB Saul says to Walt and Jesse "It was Ignacio." That likely is Ignacio, so it seems like Nacho is still around in BB.

I keep forgetting about that scene. 

[ShadowFacts]

9 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Unless Nacho was sent on a trip to Belize already, and Saul was just conveniently blaming it on the dead guy.

Ignacio is a common name.  One which Nacho does not seem to go by.  I personally like it when a series has more than one character with the same name, or Tom and Thomas for example, because that's realistic.  Anyway, I think he's a dead man walking, and if not, he might as well be since being owned by Gus Fring isn't proving to be a bed of roses so far.  He was almost a goner in the desert.  Maybe he can survive for a few more years into the BB world, but if something happens to his father, all bets are off.  Plus when Tuco gets out of the slammer and applies his lie detector . . .As qtype just described, it's his own fault entirely.  He thought he could kill his way out from under Tuco and Hector, and before that he was doing side deals that Mike was able to find out about, and getting involved in the first place of course.   I have a ton more ability to relate to his father, who I really hope survives.

[catrox14]

I always feel bad for Nacho and I owe that to Michael Mando. He gives Nacho layers beyond what he could be.

[Bannon]

25 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I always feel bad for Nacho and I owe that to Michael Mando. He gives Nacho layers beyond what he could be.

How Nacho reacts to Gus having him shot up, to advance Gus' plan against the Salamancas, and the Salamanca's tiny interest in seeing he survives it, is also interesting, especially if Nacho doesn't simply react like a desperate, exhausted, animal caught in a trap. If they can develop a credible arc where Nacho applies his intellect to the problem of getting him and his father out of this mess, that could be great storytelling. It's a tall order, but if any television writers can do it, these are the people.

[wendyg]

My theory is that Kim looked at the models and saw them as "This is what my life is going to be" and didn't like the prospect even though by any reasonable definition it's the kind of success she's been working for.

As for the courthouse...would she be able to find financial documents like corporate tax returns and so on there? Because one thing that occurs to me is she might like to look into how they're financing all this. Whatever, I tend to link the courthouse and the models.

On the other hand, we've known Kim for more than three years now, and despite that we know shockingly little about her background. She never mentions any family, we have no idea whether her parents are alive, whether she has siblings, or whether any of them know she's in a serious relationship. We have no idea whether she grew up rich or poor, why she chose Albuquerque to settle in, or what she did before she joined HHM. It is entirely possible that her reaction has something to do with her *own* background and little to do with Jimmy and Chuck at all. (Come to think of it, we didn't learn those things about Marie or Skyler, either...)

Finally: the actress who plays Viola, the paralegal: it's Lane from GILMORE GIRLS, yes?

[PeterPirate]

13 hours ago, qtpye said:

I actually do not see a tragic ending for Kim. I think she becomes relatively successful professionally and moves on with her life. She will be happy being alone or will find someone who will not drag her into the gutter the way Jimmy will when he becomes Saul. I loved Jimmy and Kim together but she needs to run far away from Saul and he is going down that route. The truth is if she stubbornly clung to Saul she would of ruined her life.

I consider that just as tragic as any other ending for Kim.  Of course, it depends on one's definition of the word tragic.  If she is alive to watch the news of Heisenberg and his trusty sidekick Saul, she will have to live with the fact that she helped bring about that chain of events.  

As I was thinking about this, it occurred to me that Kim reminds me of Colonel Nicholson (played by Alec Guinness) from Bridge Over The River Kwai.   At the end of the movie, Nicholson realizes he has been abetting the enemy and blows up the bridge.  In BCS world, we know that even if Kim decides to try to stop Jimmy from doing whatever he does to become Saul, she will fail.  

ETA:  

1. Not only will Kim have to live with her association with Jimmy but also with the fact that she actively helped bring down the person who was most committed to stopping him.

2. Imagine if next season opens with a black-and-white montage of "Kim" watching tapes of news reports of the exploits of Heisenberg, including stories about the disappearance of his money-launderer and co-conspirator Saul.  There might even be stories about the connection between Heisenberg and Wayfarer 515.  That would be incredibly difficult to watch.  I just don't see how the Kim Wexler will be able to live with herself after it all comes out.  She's a dead woman walking, she just doesn't know it yet.  Which leads me to:  

3.  I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that before BCS closes, she is going to visit a certain vacuum cleaner shop.  

Edited August 24, 2018 by PeterPirate

[jdg]

On 8/21/2018 at 9:44 AM, PotterOtherP said:

Gus probably gave him very impure samples on purpose so Gale would be even more tempted to offer his services. I like the way Gus knows just how to talk to Gale. He acts like they are playing a game and sharing a dirty little secret.

I was hoping Gale was going to say, "and this one sample looks like it has traces of Chili Powder in it!"

[wendyg]

...which reminds me that besides Gale I was very pleased to see Fran, the waitress at Mike's favorite restaurant, again.

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, Bannon said:

How Nacho reacts to Gus having him shot up, to advance Gus' plan against the Salamancas, and the Salamanca's tiny interest in seeing he survives it, is also interesting, especially if Nacho doesn't simply react like a desperate, exhausted, animal caught in a trap. If they can develop a credible arc where Nacho applies his intellect to the problem of getting him and his father out of this mess, that could be great storytelling. It's a tall order, but if any television writers can do it, these are the people.

That is a tall order, I haven't seen much application of intellect so far from Nacho.  He would need the brainpower of Mike, who has already tried to help him out twice with the Salamancas.  But maybe if he sees something of a reverse dynamic to Nacho and his father as compared with himself and his son, he would intervene again, but that's risky for him now that he's got a more "formal" association with Gus. 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

6 hours ago, Bannon said:

How Nacho reacts to Gus having him shot up, to advance Gus' plan against the Salamancas, and the Salamanca's tiny interest in seeing he survives it, is also interesting, especially if Nacho doesn't simply react like a desperate, exhausted, animal caught in a trap. If they can develop a credible arc where Nacho applies his intellect to the problem of getting him and his father out of this mess, that could be great storytelling. It's a tall order, but if any television writers can do it, these are the people.

That is a tall order, I haven't seen much application of intellect so far from Nacho.  He would need the brainpower of Mike, who has already tried to help him out twice with the Salamancas.  But maybe if he sees something of a reverse dynamic to Nacho and his father as compared with himself and his son, he would intervene again, but that's risky for him now that he's got a more "formal" association with Gus. 

There is a trope that if a character is maimed or crippled, he will not survive, but even if these writers went for tropes, it seems like Nacho's prognosis isn't too bad—although IRL his shoulder wouldn't be much good for a long time, and maybe never again.

But, yeah, the cornered animal analogy fits—especially since the dialogue and pantomime told us his father is now "safe," so Nacho just needs to choose how to protect himself.

[qtpye]

6 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

I consider that just as tragic as any other ending for Kim.  Of course, it depends on one's definition of the word tragic.  If she is alive to watch the news of Heisenberg and his trusty sidekick Saul, she will have to live with the fact that she helped bring about that chain of events.  

As I was thinking about this, it occurred to me that Kim reminds me of Colonel Nicholson (played by Alec Guinness) from Bridge Over The River Kwai.   At the end of the movie, Nicholson realizes he has been abetting the enemy and blows up the bridge.  In BCS world, we know that even if Kim decides to try to stop Jimmy from doing whatever he does to become Saul, she will fail.  

Kim feels bad about how she got Mesa Verda but at some point, she has to hold Jimmy accountable for his own actions. Yeah, the stuff with Chuck was harsh but it seems like overall Jimmy grew up in a loving family with a stable environment. Yes, he stole from his father's cash register because, might as well, since everyone else in town was conning his dad out of money and they ended up losing the business, but people have survived far worse. After his bar suspension is over he actually might be welcomed back into the legal community since a lot of people are going to feel sorry for him and want to honor the legacy of his older brother. I have to say that the guy from Davis and Main (Ed Begly, Jr.) had been a really stand up guy for Jimmy considering how badly Jimmy acted when he was with that firm. Jimmy morphing into Saul is on him and we all know it leads to disaster and I am hoping Kim is smart enough to get off the ride.

[peggy06]

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Even in the BrBa/BCS universe. I am sure the letter was written by Chuck, and given the fact that it was (a) undated and (b) refers to Jimmy as a member of the HHM family, it was written some time ago, when Jimmy was still working in the mailroom. The tone is formal, like I'd expect Chuck to use in writing. I think, given the focus on Kim's reaction, it was in the show to move the Kim/Jimmy plot along. Kim expecting a cruel final slap at Jimmy from Chuck, and instead hearing a mild, kind, if slightly pompous olive branch of a farewell. It must have made her reconsider Chuck. Remember, not too long ago she was feeling that they had beaten up on a very sick man. And if Chuck wasn't such a bad guy, then that could bring up feelings of guilt about the whole sequence of events that led to his breakdown and suicide.

I don't attach huge importance to Jimmy's non-reaction. The way he's been acting overall, I think he's not allowing any feelings.

The episode had good parts, but the closer the show gets to Breaking Bad (i.e. cartel business, introduction of old characters), the less it interests me. I watched all of Breaking Bad and was on the edge of my seat through most of it. But oddly, I don't find any desire to watch it again. I started watching Better Call Saul because Saul was such a good character and I like Bob Odenkirk. I'm in no hurry to see him meet up with Fring etal.

[shapeshifter]

8 minutes ago, peggy06 said:

I watched all of Breaking Bad and was on the edge of my seat through most of it. But oddly, I don't find any desire to watch it again.

I wonder if we are in a group of two about this.

One of the attractions for me of BCS is that it's not a rerun. 

I don't mind slow pacing a cartel stories--assuming the level of violence in this episode will not be repeated; my only complaint is the older actors playing their younger selves. Although it would have been corny, I think I might have bought the age disconnect if the series was framed with one of the surviving characters--made up to look just a little older than real life--telling the story in flash backs, so that s/he is remembering them as they most recently looked to her/him, but telling about their past.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

33 minutes ago, peggy06 said:

I watched all of Breaking Bad and was on the edge of my seat through most of it. But oddly, I don't find any desire to watch it again. I started watching Better Call Saul because Saul was such a good character and I like Bob Odenkirk. I'm in no hurry to see him meet up with Fring etal.

I am in the same boat. I don't want to watch it all over again because I know .... 

Seeing Gale didn't excite me because I know what his fate is. Same with the robobros. That is not to say I feel the same way about all the BB characters. I wouldn't be watching if that were the case. Because of how dynamic they were Jimmy, Gus and Mike's before stories interest me. The appearance of side BB characters don't interest me much. 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[EtheltoTillie]

26 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I wonder if we are in a group of two about this.

One of the attractions for me of BCS is that it's not a rerun. 

I don't mind slow pacing a cartel stories--assuming the level of violence in this episode will not be repeated; my only complaint is the older actors playing their younger selves. Although it would have been corny, I think I might have bought the age disconnect if the series was framed with one of the surviving characters--made up to look just a little older than real life--telling the story in flash backs, so that s/he is remembering them as they most recently looked to her/him, but telling about their past.

I am in your group. 

[shapeshifter]

15 minutes ago, GussieK said:

I am in your group. 

And apropos of nothing BCS related, I discovered on Ancestry.com that my great grandmother Augusta--born in the 19th century--went by "Gussie," which I think about whenever I see your screen name.   :>)

 

 

26 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Seeing Gale didn't excite me because I know what his fate is.

Since Gale was one of the few characters of Breaking Bad who had socially redeeming qualities but whose character was, nevertheless, literally fatally flawed, I liked seeing him again as a tribute to his endearing aspects and a reminder of what led to his ignoble end.

[scenario]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I wonder if we are in a group of two about this.

One of the attractions for me of BCS is that it's not a rerun. 

I don't mind slow pacing a cartel stories--assuming the level of violence in this episode will not be repeated; my only complaint is the older actors playing their younger selves. Although it would have been corny, I think I might have bought the age disconnect if the series was framed with one of the surviving characters--made up to look just a little older than real life--telling the story in flash backs, so that s/he is remembering them as they most recently looked to her/him, but telling about their past.

I can suspend my disbelief on the age thing pretty easily. Actors play way above or below their ages all the time. How many actors in their late twenties play high school students? And children frequently don't look their screen age. I've seen a lot of times where they hand a mother a supposedly newborn baby and its clearly 3 or 4 months old. Once an actor gets in their 40's or older playing 10 years younger or older doesn't really bother me. The only problem to me would be Jesse. The actor who played Jesse is 38. When we first met Jesse in BB he had recently graduated high school if I am remembering correctly. So if he were to be in BCS, you would have a 38 year old actor playing a teenager. It just wouldn't work. If he met Gene at some point, that could work.

When it comes to the cartel stories, I can't stand the sanitized violence with no consequences in more mainstream tv. Or the violence for no real reason in other TV. The violence in BCS is necessary for the story line. It raises the stakes. You know that any character that doesn't appear in BB could die at any time, even a major character. You know that all of the people who deal with the cartels are in real danger. There's no criminals with a heart of gold here. They may like you, but that doesn't matter. If you mess up, business is business. 

[Clanstarling]

23 hours ago, Bannon said:

The more I think about it, the more I think the transformation of Jimmy McGill is in some ways more interesting than the transformation of Walter White. Yes, Walter's change is superficially more dramatic, but I think Jimmy's change is more emotionally interesting. Walter starts and ends as a very intelligent guy with an ocean of maladaptive pride which causes him to interact with people very ineffectively; the cancer diagnosis just diverts him in a highly criminal direction, without making much of a change in who he is.

Jimmy's always been in love with the con  of course, but he starts as someone whose hierarchy of values has the esteem of his brother at the top, along with being in the company of Kim. Hence his willingness to labor in the mail room at HHM for 7 years, without playing the con. Once it begins to be revealed that he will never have the esteem of his brother, his hierarchy begins to be destroyed, and pain of loss changes Jimmy, even with regards to his love of the con. It will no longer be enough to rip off people he meets in bars, who already have larceny in their hearts. Jimmy is like Heath Ledger's Joker now, his anger and pain compels him to want to burn it all down, for the sheer chaos it creates. A "criminal" lawyer has a great platform for that, and losing Kim will complete the change.

You stated exactly how I've felt watching this show (and BB), but never really put words to.

21 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I always feel bad for Nacho and I owe that to Michael Mando. He gives Nacho layers beyond what he could be.

Absolutely. Just like Aaron Paul did for Jesse Pinkman - a small time meth dealer and druggie who wasn't supposed to be around for more than a few episodes, if I recall correctly.

20 hours ago, wendyg said:

My theory is that Kim looked at the models and saw them as "This is what my life is going to be" and didn't like the prospect even though by any reasonable definition it's the kind of success she's been working for.

Finally: the actress who plays Viola, the paralegal: it's Lane from GILMORE GIRLS, yes?

That was what I thought Kim's reaction meant too. And yes, that's Lane.

12 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I wonder if we are in a group of two about this.

One of the attractions for me of BCS is that it's not a rerun. 

I don't mind slow pacing a cartel stories--assuming the level of violence in this episode will not be repeated; my only complaint is the older actors playing their younger selves. Although it would have been corny, I think I might have bought the age disconnect if the series was framed with one of the surviving characters--made up to look just a little older than real life--telling the story in flash backs, so that s/he is remembering them as they most recently looked to her/him, but telling about their past.

The age doesn't bother me - possibly because I haven't watched BB since starting BCS. In my opinion, none of them - excepting Mike's granddaughter - really look older than they should be to me, so I buy it.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Clanstarling
grammar and/or bad writing

[Ellaria]

11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I wonder if we are in a group of two about this... 

I "binged" BB almost immediately after the show ended its run on AMC and was able avoid spoilers. I loved the show. However, I also have little desire to go back and re-watch it from start to finish. Some of it is a tough watch (any scene with Tuco). Perhaps because I binged it, I don't get particularly excited about the appearance of characters like Gale, Victor, various Salamanca relatives, etc. I understand that these characters are necessary to the story and to build the world of BB. Its also great that Gilligan was able to get them to return (why not?). I am invested in Jimmy, Kim and Howard in their current world. I am less and less interested in the cartel business, probably because I know where it is headed.

5 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

The age doesn't bother me - possibly because I haven't watched BB since starting BCS. In my opinion, none of them - excepting Mike's granddaughter - don't really look older than they should be to me, so I buy it.

The "age thing" doesn't bother me either. The acting throughout this show and BB is so good that I can easily forget that a character doesn't necessarily look younger than they did in BB. 

[ShadowFacts]

24 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

The "age thing" doesn't bother me either. The acting throughout this show and BB is so good that I can easily forget that a character doesn't necessarily look younger than they did in BB. 

Yes, and it doesn't hurt that Mike is one of those people like Willie Nelson who always look like they are the same age as when I first saw them. 

 

10 hours ago, scenario said:

When it comes to the cartel stories, I can't stand the sanitized violence with no consequences in more mainstream tv. Or the violence for no real reason in other TV. The violence in BCS is necessary for the story line. It raises the stakes. You know that any character that doesn't appear in BB could die at any time, even a major character. You know that all of the people who deal with the cartels are in real danger. There's no criminals with a heart of gold here. They may like you, but that doesn't matter. If you mess up, business is business. 

I'm not up for much violence, sanitized or not, but I think realism took a little holiday with Nacho surviving being gutshot, in shock, laying in the desert, transfused by a vet. 

[Bryce Lynch]

10 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I'm not up for much violence, sanitized or not, but I think realism took a little holiday with Nacho surviving being gutshot, in shock, laying in the desert, transfused by a vet. 

Oh, I’ll take a vet over an M.D. any day. They gotta be able to cure a lizard, a chicken, a pig, a frog - all on the same day.