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Crisis On Infinite Earths 2019: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Tells Their Story

scarynikki12

By scarynikki12
in Legends Of Tomorrow

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This thread is specifically for discussion of Elseworlds, Crisis on Infinite Earths, and speculation and spoilers directly pertaining to them.  Full rules for the thread are here; please read them.  Off-topic posts may be removed.

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Trini

Trini

Besides Oliver being centered, Part 4 doesn't sound like it will feature Arrow characters much.

So Flash disappears... in Crisis. The newspaper headline is kind of fulfilled? Nah - I know that's not it.

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BkWurm1
BkWurm1

Aww crap. I was hoping he'd be bored and have moved away from the crossover by next year.  I really don't like the narrow focus on just the leads.  I was willing to put up with it this year but now I'

Starfish35
Starfish35

I’m dying. 🤣 From Tumblr:

Mellowyellow
Mellowyellow

Ahh good old Stephen and his NOPE face reserved for everyone who isn't EBR. At least he doesn't look like he wants to break Iris's arm there! We had a temp LI in S5 and there was a scene where sh

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Lantern7

Lantern7

I keep forgetting to ask . . . where is Psycho Pirate? He's the one that dropped that "Worlds Live" line last year to get the COIE hype started. Or would too many people wonder how exactly he would be considered a pirate?

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way2interested

way2interested

23 minutes ago, Trini said:

Besides Oliver being centered, Part 4 doesn't sound like it will feature Arrow characters much.

Arrow being sacrificed for other characters for other shows? How out of character! XD Yeah, pretty much saw this coming after MG was talking all about how excited he was about him and Marv writing JC Lex Luthor and them revealing the Monitor backstories in part 4. Glad Oliver might get some focus, though. Guessing he gets a little arc so he can show up in his Spectre costume by the end of it. 

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So Flash disappears... in Crisis. The newspaper headline is kind of fulfilled? Nah - I know that's not it.

He goes into the speed force for part 4 since they revealed that in the promo already. Apparently not for long or long enough really for Iris to come back and write an article on it though since it seems like Barry is in a lot of part 5 from on set pictures.

SA, what a troll

 

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Trini

Trini

15 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

I keep forgetting to ask . . . where is Psycho Pirate? He's the one that dropped that "Worlds Live" line last year to get the COIE hype started. Or would too many people wonder how exactly he would be considered a pirate?

I thought he and John Deegan would at least have a small part in this crossover, since they introduced this arc in Elseworlds, but both characters were dropped from the story, apparently. I haven't read all the interviews, etc.; but I don't think there's been an official explanation given.

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Starry

Starry

In the comics Psycho Pirate

Spoiler

had a huge presence in the plot about Barry's death.

Once they added a twist to that story, they probably had no need for the character anymore. Maybe he'll play a part in the AntiMonitor backstory or show up at the very end. I am not counting on it though.

 

8 hours ago, Trini said:

Besides Oliver being centered, Part 4 doesn't sound like it will feature Arrow characters much.

So Flash disappears... in Crisis. The newspaper headline is kind of fulfilled? Nah - I know that's not it.

I agree. I think Reverse Flash will only make its appearance in the final episode. At this point in the story everyone but the Paragons and Lex has vanished. I believe Oliver and the Speed Force are telling Barry to bring the other heroes to the Dawn of Time where they can fight the AntiMonitor before it's too late. His speed powers are probably needed for that.

I think Diggle, Mia and other Arrow characters will show up as manifestations of Oliver's memories in his journey to becoming the Spectre. That's why we'll see Laurel but not Black Siren.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Review: The Crisis on Infinite Earths Tie-in Comic Is a Fun Companion to the TV Series
By RUSS BURLINGAME - December 23, 2019 
https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/12/18/crisis-on-infinite-earths-tie-in-comic-review/  

Spoiler

There are two pieces to look at here: [Marv] Wolfman and [Marc] Guggenheim wrote a lead feature as well as a backup feature, both of which take place between parts one and two of the crossover event. That means there's no spoilers here, as long as you have actually been watching the show, but it feels very engrained in the story. That alone is a win for a lot of fans, who were bummed that some of the characters represented in the lead feature -- Felicity Smoak, The Ray, Wally West, and Nyssa al Ghul -- were not able to show up in the TV crossover. The backup feature, which centers on Earth-38's Lex Luthor, sets up his quest to kill all of the multiverse's Supermen, as seen in the second hour of the show.

The art in the lead feature is stellar -- [Tom] Derenick conveys emotion well, the layouts are exciting, and the character designs are mostly on-point. One could quibble with some design elements of Pariah and The Monitor, but that may be more a case of TV's bulkier costumes not porting over 1:1.
*  *  *
As with the TV series, Guggenheim and Wolfman ably manage the cameos and the story -- and they even throw in a particularly fun Easter egg for fans of Wolfman's Legends of the DC Universe: Crisis on Infinite Earths one-shot from years back.

Tom Grummett, who draws the Lex Luthor backup, is versatile and talented. He manages to be chameleon-like, and to differentiate various different Luthors and Supermen in a way that works well for the comic. If there is one complaint it's that his likenesses are not especially spot-on. It may be that some of the actors just haven't signed off on that yet, but the big thing that stands out is the way Superman is built: not slender and flexible like Tyler Hoechlin's Supergirl character, but essentially identical to the Superman Grummett used to draw in the '90s when he was the regular penciller first on The Adventures of Superman and later on Superboy.
*  *  *
Ultimately, this is a really good read across the board. It isn't the best work either of the writers or artists have done, but considering the quality of their bodies of work, that's a really high bar to set. It's a great way to tide fans over until January 14 when "Crisis on Infinite Earths" comes back to conclude its Arrowverse story, and the sharp writing and crackling art make it an enjoyable diversion even for those who aren't especially up to date on the shows.

 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

More about the COIE Giant #1 tie-in comic...

Crisis on Infinite Earths: How Marv Wolfman Fit Into the TV Crossover
By RUSS BURLINGAME - December 23, 2019 
https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/12/24/crisis-on-infinite-earths-how-marv-wolfman-fit-tv-crossover/

Spoiler

"I gotta tell you, Marv writes an incredible Jon Cryer Lex Luthor," Guggenheim recently teased while talking to ComicBook.com about the Crisis on Infinite Earths 100-Page Giant comics. "He just has his voice completely nailed, and you’ll see that also in the live action version as well."

For his part, Wolfman said that being a longtime watcher of the Arrowverse shows helped, but more than that, he was happy to have a safety net in the form of all the other people involved with "Crisis."

"As a writer trying to capture other people’s styles, it was perfect knowing that everybody was there to back me up," Wolfman explained. "Marc could correct it, Marc could make it work, and also tie it in completely with the shows themselves. I had a great time doing it. It was scary, suddenly to have to write these characters, especially characters like Felicity Smoak, who had specific speech patterns."
*  *  *
"I was incredibly anxious and had a whole series of fears and neuroses about tackling this," Guggenheim admitted. "None of them were centered around the fear that Marv wouldn’t like what we were doing, and that’s honestly a testament to how open nd collaborative and generous he has been with his baby. That said, I was terrified that we might screw it up. There’s only one 'Crisis on Infinite Earths,' and for right now, there’s only one opportunity to adapt it into live action. I laid awake many a night worried that we wouldn’t do a good job of it."

 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

100 TV Moments From 2019 That We're Still Not Over
Nora Dominick   December 29, 2019
https://www.buzzfeed.com/noradominick/tv-moments-of-2019 

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53. Also, during "Crisis on Infinite Earths: Part One," when Oliver heartbreakingly died after sacrificing himself to save billions of innocent people.
*  *  *
94. Also on The Flash, during "Crisis on Infinite Earths: Part Three," Mia, Diggle, and Constantine visited Lucifer from Lucifer in order to get into purgatory and bring back Oliver's soul.
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100. And finally, on Batwoman, during "Crisis on Infinite Earths: Part Two," Clark and Lois from Smallville appeared and we learned that Clark gave up his powers in order to live a normal life with Lois and their daughters. ....

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Critical review of the first tie-in comic (includes more panel pics from both stories in this comic, including some panels not previously posted)....

Crisis On Infinite Earths Giant #1 – Good Read, Great Easter Eggs, Horrible Crisis Management, Bad Arrowverse Tie-In (SPOILERS)
Posted on December 29, 2019 | by Ian Melton
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/12/29/crisis-on-infinite-earths-giant-1-good-read-great-easter-eggs-horrible-crisis-management-bad-arrowverse-tie-in-spoilers/ 

Spoiler

The story also has Kid Flash aiding our heroes from the start of the issue, working alongside his mentor, and sadly sacrificing himself for the Flash.
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*  *  *
A rebuilt Red Tornado and adding in Doll-Man from Earth-X,
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And the Justice Alliance from Earth-D, last seen in the Legends of the DC Universe: Crisis on Infinite Earths one-shot from 1999 at the heart of another Shadow Demon attack.
*  *  *
(Felicity’s comments on Earth-D are fun shoutouts such as how it “has an entire … League, I guess, of supers.” Plus not being able to recognize the “cool guy” on Earth-D as a Green Lantern…)
*  *  *
This tie-in is full of great cameos and allusions to throughout the DC multiverse and history. However, this story … doesn’t fit into the crossover for so many reasons, which is sad because of who wrote the story.  The story seems to be written with the idea that it takes place entirely during the second part of the crossover (Batwoman Season 1, Episode 9), in particular, fitting in the space starting right after Harbinger and Heatwave (Mick Rory) have their conversation about using the Waverider. (Literally after the line “You had me at beer…”)
*  *  *
and ending before the next scene where the Monitor tells the characters about the Paragons. After this “Crisis on Infinite Earths” (the actual title of the main story in Crisis on Infinite Earths Giant #1, as though that wouldn’t be confusing) begins with Harbinger recruiting the Ray from the dying Earth-X and returning to Waverider to be greeted by the Flash (Earth-1 Barry Allen), Kid Flash, the Atom (Ray Palmer), White Canary (Sara Lance), Batwoman, and Felicity Smoak. (Flash comments “we just got here ourselves”.)
*  *  *
Along with Nyssa Al Ghul, the group is informed about Pariah’s (Nash Wells’) anti-matter opposite Outkast, and that he must be captured.  Joined by Pariah, as well the group, they attempt to do just that, traveling to dying world after dying world to save them.
*  *  *
Elements of the story make the timeline for fitting this story in the crossover, difficult. First, the comic book has the characters in costume almost the whole time, yet during the episode, it takes place during, the heroes are almost always not in super-hero attire. Felicity just wandering the Waverider is problematic, because her future daughter is also onboard, yet no mention is made of this.
*  *  *
Flash and Felicity discuss Oliver’s death with Felicity focused on bringing back Oliver through the power of the Paragons, even though the Flash plans to take Oliver to a Lazarus Pit and is working with Mia and Sara to do so, but he makes no mention of this. Also Pariah is introduced to many of the characters in this story, before he meets them again for the first time in the actual crossover episodes. And the Flash learns of the Paragons during this story, which doesn’t fit because if takes place before the Monitor tells them in the crossover and the Flash states “You’re just now telling us this?” during that point … the story just doesn’t fit. And if you place the story later in the same episode, there are other continuity issues. Harbinger is already falling under the sway of the Anti-Monitor and is disorientated in Batwoman Episode 9.  During the tie-in story though, she is clearly not under the influence of the Anti-Monitor, serving at the transportation for the heroes. The influence from the Anti-Monitor though, starts during the scene in the Batwoman episode where the Monitor tells the heroes about the Paragons, making the story near impossible to fit into the crossover without major continuity errors.

As for the second 8-page story, continuity issues are not really an issue here in terms of readability, because this story ABSOLUTELY can’t fit in the crossover. It’s a well-written story with some great Easter eggs, such as Luthors from all so many multiverses (name them all if you can…
scan_009.jpg

…who strangely meet on the same Earth that Batman ended up in the Kingdom Come exo-suit and killed Superman from Batwoman Episode 9). Also we get Superman’s from so many multiverses (again, name them all?)
scan_0052.jpg

And for 8 pages, it is a great quick fun read through that fits the feel of the Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover, in fact, for dialogue and motivation, I’d say it is better written than some parts of the crossover.  The interaction of the Luthors…
scan_010.jpg

…and the interaction of Earth-38 Luthor and Superman are great reading.
scan_0054.jpg

However, it again can’t fit in the crossover because of continuity.  This story again fits during Batwoman Episode 9, but there is one huge continuity sticking point because Luthor from Earth-38 is jailed at the end of the episode…
*  *  *
…and Earth-38 is destroyed by the beginning of that episode, and Superman is shown to be on Earth-38 at a point after Luthor is jailed on the Waverider.  Plus, even if Luthor can time travel somehow, Superman knows of his imprisonment on the Waverider so this isn’t the past of Earth-38 before its destruction.
*  *  *
Now we’ll see if the Crisis on Infinite Earths Giant #2 can somehow fix all these continuity issues, but I really doubt it can be done without completely erasing everything that has happened so far in the stories themselves. If a fan wants to read some great character moments that should be in the Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover, this issue is a great read.  If as a fan you want a side-story that fits in seams of the television episode clearly, this issue is sadly just a typical comic book tie-in that creates more problems than it solves.

 

Edited by tv echo
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Trini

Trini

Crisis-related bits from this Comics Beat interview with Cress Williams:

Quote

Speaking of Vancouver, what was his experience working with all of the other DC Superheroes, he continued: “First of all, it was awesome and just massive. The number of people and the number of superheroes was just massive, but they handled it well. I did have this out of body moment when I wasn’t acting and in between shots when I looked around and everyone was in some sort of costume. And I thought to myself this is so weird and bizarre but in a great way. Everyone was so great and they welcomed me with open arms and I had a blast!”

So, what can we expect from the after-effects of Crisis on Infinite Earths to be for the Pierce family and citizens of Freeland? Williams said: “Um, you know, it’s a new normal. I can’t say much, but I will say that in our reality, we were the heroes and all those other infamous heroes were just in comic books. So, that’s different now.”

What’s been his favorite scene so far this season? He shared: “Actually, my scene with Grant Gustin (The Flash) from Crisis has been one of my favorites so far. While shooting Crisis, Grant and I discovered that we have a lot of the same sensibilities when it comes to the work and they wrote a scene that was just a really good person to person scene. It went by really fast, but was a lot of fun.”

On wanting to join the crossover madness again, he continued: “I want to be a part of it again, but also, I want the other characters to come play with us too! Everyone mentioned that they want to come to Atlanta and I hope we have that opportunity after we step away from Crisis.”

 

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Chris24601

Chris24601

Cress’ comment about how going forward they’re not the only superheroes definitely suggests some type of merged Earth is the end result.

Given the comments about how this was going to affect the new season, I wonder if the Legends’ mission this season will actually be the need to iron out all the temporal anachronisms resulting from the merger of multiple timelines.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

2019 in review: A super year for comics and superheroes
By MICHAEL CHEANG   December 31, 2019
https://www.thestar.com.my/lifestyle/culture/2019/12/31/2019-in-review-a-super-year-for-comics-and-superheroes 

Quote

Crisis On Infinite TV Earths

What Marvel can do, DC can do too... on TV! December saw arguably THE biggest superhero TV event ever begin, as the Arrowverse pulled off a crossover that literally spanned the ages. The Crisis On Infinite Earth crossover event, which pans out across the Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Batwoman and DC's Legends Of Tomorrow shows, and ends in January 2020, saw a who's who of DC superheroes from a multitude of 'Earths' making an appearance.

This includes not one, not two, but THREE Supermen, with Brandon Routh and Tom Welling returning to the roles that made their careers, alongside the Arrowverse Supes, played by Tyler Hoechlin.

And to top it off, we got Kevin Conroy, yes, THE voice of Batman in Batman: The Animated Series, playing Bruce Wayne!

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)


Incidentally, The CW is doing a terrible job of promoting the return of COIE on new Arrow and LoT episodes on January 14...

First, there's this oft-retweeted, but technically incorrect CW graphic (tweeted by The CW's own PR account)...

Then, the recently mailed print issue of the newest TV Guide incorrectly lists Flash and Batwoman repeats as The CW line-up on January 14, 2020. However, I do not know if this mistake should be attributed to TV Guide or The CW.

Edited by tv echo
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Trini

Trini

So, new photo of the anti-monitor,

crisis-on-infinite-earths-part-4-photos-

And Lex Luthor and Ryan Choi are ... science-ing a way to get out of the Vanishing point?

crisis-on-infinite-earths-part-4-photos-

----

I wonder if the actual battle (in that quarry) will be in the Part 4, or just set up in Part 4 and it happens in Part 5?

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Chris24601

Chris24601

My guess is the universe will get re-sparked in part 4 with a final battle against the Monitor happening midway through part 5, leaving the latter half as a denument that establishes the new status quo for the Arrowverse. Given that the two will be airing back-to-back the pacing will feel about on par with a normal single episode where the threat is resolved around the 45 minute mark with one more act to wrap character-related elements after the commercial break.

Another interesting datapoint if true... I heard a report today that the show runners were apparently told that coming out of the Crossover they could retcon any part their shows that they wanted to so it’s definitely not a case of “like it never happened” for the ending.

There’s obviously little point to changing much with Arrow, and Batwoman started knowing this was coming and messing with it even as it’s trying to establish itself seems silly, but Flash, Supergirl and Legends could definitely get a shakeup.

The report also showed clips of a post-Crisis Flash/Supergirl team-up vs. Weather Witch with Marv Wolfman in a cameo which apparently happens somewhere in part-5. That definitely seems to be suggesting they’re in the same universe now since a run-of-the-mill meta isn’t something you’d need to breach in Supergirl for.

It also pointed to a post-Crisis Flash episode title referencing the show that the actress who plays Jesse Quick is now on. The resport suggests that this could imply Earth-2 (or at least characters from there) might end up in the re-sparked universe.

Which makes sense. If they’re collapsing down the universes then there’s no longer an infinite number of Harrison Wells for Tom Cavenaugh to portray so they might as well run with the most successful one they’ve had (i.e. Harry).

I’d also lean towards the characters being integrated instead of Earth-2 returning though just because Laurel-2 was all about making a life for herself on her home Earth and instead she’ll be on the same Earth as Mia, William and Connor.

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Trini

Trini

Matt's Inside Line:

Quote

Anything about “Crisis on Infinite Earths”? –Jamie

Teasing the impact of the crossover on each of the five shows, Legends co-showrunner Keto Shimizu said, “It hits Sara pretty hard,” but “in a good way” that “sets up her trajectory” for Season 5; Supergirl co-showrunner Robert Rovner shared, “For us, it really resets a lot of what’s happening…. It’s fun to see what happens afterwards”; Caroline Dries said that although the Batwoman characters are in the dark about multiverses and powered superheroes, it nonetheless “will have a shocking resonance” for Kate; Arrowverse EP Marc Guggenheim hinted that during the remainder of the crossover, The Flash‘s “Barry will do something that is very significant, that will have ramifications for the remainder of Season 6”; while Arrow showrunner Beth Schwartz acknowledged that, unsurprisingly, “It changes, literally, everything” on the flagship series.

https://tvline.com/2020/01/02/lucifer-final-season-5-spoilers-deckerstar/

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Maverick

Maverick

 Flash and Supergirl are the most likely to be changed but they've put the pieces in place for the back half of their seasons so I don't see how they can change much. 

 Whatever changes I'm wondering who will remember.  Will it just be those in the Vanishing Point? (In which case on one on Black Lightning will remember if that show changes).  Will it be those that were on the Waverider?  Or everyone in the final battle, which appears to include Dreamer, Vibe and various other heroes. 

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

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37 minutes ago, Maverick said:

Whatever changes I'm wondering who will remember.  Will it just be those in the Vanishing Point? (In which case on one on Black Lightning will remember if that show changes).  Will it be those that were on the Waverider?  Or everyone in the final battle, which appears to include Dreamer, Vibe and various other heroes. 

I'm betting on the Paragons retaining their memories and no one else. That would allow the stories that are set up on Flash, Batwoman, Supergirl, and Black Lightning to continue without getting bogged down by the all regulars angsting with the knowledge that there's now only one Earth and that an untold number of people were merged with their doppelgangers while their home worlds were destroyed. I do think that more than the Paragons will be in the know about what really happened but they'll be the only ones who actually remember it. Iris is the only one I feel certain will be told and I go back and forth on if Jefferson, Clark, Lois, Mia, and Alex will also be told. On the one hand, it would make sense for the leads of all the Arrowverse shows to be in the know so that would bring in Jefferson, Clark, Lois, and Mia to join Barry, Kara, Kate, and Sara in being burdened with the knowledge of the events of Crisis. On the other hand, I can't see the Arrowverse wanting to spend too much time dealing with the angst that comes with the fallout so they may leave Jefferson, Clark, Lois, and Mia blissfully ignorant and free to focus on the stories planned on their respective shows. Alex is a logical person to be told as Kara and J'onn both tell her everything already but this would also give them an opportunity to let Kara and J'onn spend more time together as they support each other through the fallout. Supergirl already tends to have the least amount of fallout from the crossovers and I expect that to continue even though they'll be on the same earth so I'm leaning towards Alex not knowing and Kara and J'onn occasionally checking in with each other but focusing on the planned stories for the rest of the season. I'd love to see the Crisis fallout being used for the Kate/Kara friendship and to have references to them checking in with each other since I don't expect Kate to have anyone on her show to talk to about it. Ryan has been speculated to join LOT so that will give Sara someone to talk to who experienced Crisis. If she's going to talk to anyone else I'd love to see her confide in Gideon since she can be impartial and Sara can command her not to spill to anyone else. If Mia's in the know then I want her checking in with her Auntie Sara but I won't get my hopes up with that one. Lex is the spoiler in all of this but, assuming he survives, I bet he stays quiet so as not to sound like a lunatic.

There's not a whole lot that the other characters can do beyond showing sympathy to those in the know and maybe angst at the reveal that their memories may not be real due to the big merge. That can make for some good character stuff but the shows have stories planned already and I don't expect them to focus too heavily on fallout when they return from hiatus so I would be surprised if too many people know beyond the Paragons or whoever is chosen to retain the knowledge post-Crisis.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

Why is Ryan the only one that looks different. Did the rest of them remember to schedule their hair appointments and forget to tell him?

I can see them having the Paragons being the ones to remember. Others can be told what happened and believe them but not remember it. 

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

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9 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Why is Ryan the only one that looks different. Did the rest of them remember to schedule their hair appointments and forget to tell him?

Ryan doesn't have his grooming between fights routine down just yet. That or his hair grows at an alarming rate.

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Trini

Trini

3 hours ago, Maverick said:

 Whatever changes I'm wondering who will remember.  Will it just be those in the Vanishing Point? (In which case on one on Black Lightning will remember if that show changes).  Will it be those that were on the Waverider?  Or everyone in the final battle, which appears to include Dreamer, Vibe and various other heroes. 

If they let Cisco keep his powers (I doubt it, though), he would be able to 'vibe' the alternate/past timelines and dimensions.

And I've seen speculation that Jen's powers as shown in Black Lightning's "Crisis" episode could possibly mean that she survived the antimatter wave and could be aware of changes to her Earth.

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Chris24601

Chris24601

I'm actually going to guess that even the Paragons aren't going to remember and it'll only be Oliver and a restored Monitor who remember.

The reason why I don't think they'll remember either is because they've already set up the Chekov's gun of how they're going to get the universe back, or at least a limited part of it, via the Book of Destiny.

The Monitor's already said the Book can restore a universe, but that it would essentially drive insane/kill whoever used it to do so. Seven Paragons making the sacrifice = up to seven universes re-sparked (minus the number of Paragons who don't do it for certain reasons; Sara because she might have to ride herd on all the temporal paradoxes; Lex because he's a selfish ****).

Then to save as many people as possible they choose to merge parts of other universes into new combos. In this case it means Earth-1, 2, 38 and Black Lightning's Earth will be one of the one's re-sparked (with the DC streaming verse another likely candidate).

So, if they sacrifice themselves, how do their shows go on? The same way they do in any story where a heroic sacrifice is made to fix a horrible situation via time travel... the fixed timeline already has those characters in them who did everything the same (or mostly the same in this case) right up to the point where the timeline diverged.

* * * *

Another interesting prospect to consider is that the Mia we've known has always been a "Post-Crisis" character. The final bit of season seven confirmed that Oliver had already sacrificed himself/become something else in the Crisis and that Felicity was now going with the Monitor to join him. What this means for her memories is anyone's guess.

Of note though, she's apparently keeping the suit Ollie gave her during the Crossover for the backdoor pilot, so odds are good she'll at least remember the "pulled back in time and was there when he died" part. She might get to remember everything too simply because the new Spectre, as an aspect of God, WANTS her to remember what she learned from him during her time in the past.

Another interesting prospect is what potentially merging parts of Earth-2 into Earth-1 means for Laurel-2 vs. Laurel-1. One possibility is that, in a Crisis-created retcon, Laurel didn't actually die in season four.

Maybe her death was faked and she was instead taken and brainwashed into being a villain for a while (which actually would make Quentin's interest in redeeming her and his treating her like his daughter make more sense in the retconned universe... because she actually would be his daughter). This would also explain why Mia knew of Laurel 2.0 as the Black Canary and associated Laurel-1's heroics with her... because in Mia's Post-Crisis timeline they were always the same person.

* * * *

One of the things that's been pretty common in DC comics many crises is that big-name characters only get to remember the pre-retcon universe if they're going to be written out of the current one.

It's one of the reasons why Superman-Rebirth was sorta a big deal for a while in that Superman and Lois remembered the pre-Flashpoint universe and stayed out of the way of the Superman and Lois of the post-Flashpoint universe until those versions died.

But even then, the resolution to that arc was merging themselves into the new timeline in a way that fit all their Pre-Flashpoint stories back into the Post-Flashpoint continuity (one part of which was that in the revised timeline they got married and had their son a lot earlier than they previously did... which I only bring up because of how that might play into the Superman & Lois spin-off this crossover is teasing along with Future Team Arrow).

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Crisis On Infinite Earths' Hiatus Killed the Hype For Its Conclusion
by Timothy Donohoo – on Jan 01, 2020 
https://www.cbr.com/crisis-on-infinite-earths-hiatus-killed-the-hype-for-its-conclusion/

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The year long wait between Avengers: Infinity War and Endgame was grueling for fans, but the hype generated by the former's cliffhanger ending was equally as immense, leading to a massive haul at the worldwide box office. It's that same sense of wanting to get to the next chapter that the hiatus in the Arrowverse's "Crisis on Infinite Earths" has tried to replicate.

Unfortunately, due to a combination of bad timing, fierce attention competition and the differences in mediums, that hasn't exactly been the case. The hype of the conclusion of "Crisis," as well as its effect on the wider Arrowverse and the returning shows, has starting drying up in the weeks since the event's most recent new episode. Here's a look at the various factors that have kept the crossover from remaining in the public consciousness during the wait for its conclusions.
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While it isn't out of the ordinary for the Arrowverse shows (or any network dramas, for that matter) to plant narrative seeds and cliffhangers in their winter finales, one at this scale, which could determine the fate of the Arrowverse multiverse, is certainly something to follow up on as quickly as possible. Given how much "Crisis" has fallen off of the social media radar in the past few weeks, it's safe to say that the CW should've possibly released the crossover in its entirety in 2019.

HOME FOR THE HOLIDAYS
MOVIE COMPETITION
TELEVISION COMPETITION

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

(edited)

Crisis on Infinite Earths Gave the Arrowverse Its Best Superman Line
BY NICHOLAS RAYMOND  JAN 01, 2020
https://screenrant.com/crisis-infinite-earths-superman-best-arrowverse-quote/

Quote

During the third installment of Crisis on Infinite Earths, Earth-38's Lois Lane (Elizabeth Tulloch) asks Superman why he wears a black House of El emblem, as opposed to the traditional yellow. Superman responds, "Even in the darkest times, hope cuts through. Hope is the light that lifts us out of darkness". It's a very Superman-esque line, and it perfectly represents an ideal that all interpretations of the Big Blue Boy Scout should uphold. After all, Superman is a character whose goal is to bring hope to the universe, so this is exactly the sort of quote one should expect from such a symbolic hero.
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Every show and movie with the Man of Steel needs an inspirational Superman line, and it seems fitting that it would be Routh's Clark - not Hoechlin's - who delivers it, especially when considering the background of his character. The Kingdom Come Superman has a much more tragic backstory than other portrayals of the character, so the idea that Superman is still able to hold on to hope despite everything that he's lost makes the moment even more moving.

Also, it's revealed in the second chapter of Crisis on Infinite Earths that the Kingdom Come Superman is in fact the same Clark Kent played by Routh in Superman Returns, which means that he's also the same character played by Christopher Reeve in the original Superman movies. Reeve's portrayal of Superman is easily the most iconic and most beloved live-action version of Superman, so it certainly seemed necessary for Crisis on Infinite Earths to do him justice. Routh's Superman has been so well-received that fans are wondering if The CW made a mistake in not giving him his own show.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

(edited)

Spoilers for second story in COIE Giant #1 (first tie-in comic) - there are also two comic panels that I didn't post below (go to link to read)...

Crisis on Infinite Earths: Every Lex on the Council of Luthors, Explained
by Brandon Zachary – on Jan 05, 2020 
https://www.cbr.com/crisis-on-infinite-earths-every-lex-on-the-council-of-luthors-explained/ 

Spoiler

As this tie-in comic reveals, in-between the events of the previously released episodes of the crossover, Lex Luthor got the chance to meet many of the other versions of himself in the Council of Luthors. A number of these Luthors just made their Arrowverse debuts in DC's Crisis on Infinite Earths Giant #1, tying The CW version of the DC Universe closer to the various worlds of the multiverse.
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The meeting takes place on Earth-99, the world where Kate Kane and Kara Danvers confronted an older and broken Bruce Wayne earlier in the television crossover. Many of the versions of Lex Luthor who appear in the story are deep-cut references to previous versions of Lex from across the history of DC Comics. This includes the red-headed Luthor who first appeared in the Golden Age, the Bronze Age version of Lex wearing his Lexor War-Suit, and the more heavy-set version that appeared in the Post-Crisis Man of Steel relaunch of the Superman comics. There's even a version of Luthor from the 1990s, when he used a clone body to pose as his illegitimate Australian son, Lex Luthor II.

There even appear to be some of the more bizarre versions of Luthor from across the comics multiverse. A Lex Luthor seen in a robe could be the Lex from Earth-33, where magic is the defining aspect of the reality. However, that version of the character was also seemingly killed by Apex Lex during his multiversal purge of other versions of Luthor. There's also a female version of Luthor. This is presumably the Luthor from Earth-11 (which is a gender-swapped version of the core DC Universe), who hasn't had much of a role in previous stories. There's even seemingly two versions of Lex Luthor from Pre-Crisis versions of Earth-3: the bearded Luthor who was the only hero of his world, and a version of Lex wearing the distinct golden armor of his son, Alexander Luthor Jr.
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... Among the council of Luthors are many versions of the character from across various other forms of multimedia. Notably, the Gene Hackman version of Luthor from the Richard Donner Superman films (easily identifiable by his distinctly colorful suit) was responsible for bringing the Arrowverse Luthor, portrayed by Jon Cryer on Supergirl, to the meeting in the first place.

Among many of the other Luthors are versions of the character who appeared in previous television versions of the DC Universe. A version of Luthor wearing his iconic purple and green suit from Superfriends is among the group, suggesting the classic cartoon also exists within the multiverse. Michael Rosenbaum's version of Luthor from the Smallville television series may not appear in the actual crossover, but President Luthor is one of the versions of the character present at the meeting. There's also a version of Luthor seen in what appears to be an orange prison jumpsuit. If that's the case, this could be a subtle reference to Jessie Eisenberg's Luthor from Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice, who was arrested before making his escape to try and begin the DC Extended Universe version of the Legion of Doom.

 

Edited by tv echo
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Trini

Trini

(edited)

(Female) SuperBat is where it's at! And at least some of the other supporting characters got to be included; but why the 'Nash' version of Wells?? And still not showing J'onn in his Martian from; annoying.

 

ENsZswcWoAUUw1D.jpg

Edited by Trini
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Featherhat

Featherhat

2 minutes ago, Trini said:

Wait -- did they just throw a cloak over Oliver's regular Arrow costume? Come on, now. 😕

Seems like it.

I appreciate there are supporting characters on it that don't normally get to be on big crossover posters (or in the actual episodes) but each one is getting more and more lazy. This is supposed to be the climax of their big blow out event that they can't top. Get creative!

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Starry

Starry

1 hour ago, Trini said:

(Female) SuperBat is where it's at! And at least some of the other supporting characters got to be included; but why the 'Nash' version of Wells?? And still not showing J'onn in his Martian from; annoying.

It's possible that Pariah reverting back to Nash is going to be a plot point. That's my only explanation.

I prefer the other posters but I like that Kara is front and center on this one.

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Velocity23

Velocity23

Kara is always upfront with the posters but never has the story. I also am sceptical about them pushing the Superbat friendship so much, because i am not sure Melissa Benoist is staying on beyond s6. And that is already next season.

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