S02.E05 Part V

[Door County Cherry]

Airs August 29, 2018

Quote

As Ambrose zeroes in on a new suspect, a rift develops between him and Heather.

[slothgirl]

Thoughts on this episode:

1) There are WAY too many commercial breaks in this series

2) It just drags along without enough happening and feels like it could have been told in fewer episodes.

3) I wonder if those 2 things are related.

4) eyeroll

[LoveLeigh]

OMG all the commercials every five minutes are ridiculous. And another episode where nothing happened. And what does happen is preposterous. They never give any clues to why Julian murdered that couple. They tell small things that don't even matter. 

I may skip the next couple of episodes which are just inane filler and just watch the last episode. 

[AnimeMania]

I think that Marin was telling Heather that she was lying to herself in thinking that Marin is gay. It was just that one time, and we were both a little drunk, your mom had just died and you were sad and vulnerable, that doesn't mean I'm gay, right? I am a first class peen hound.

The already told you everything that you needed to know to know what happened.

Please don't read if you don't want to be spoiled:

Spoiler

The young couple was taking Julian to Dr. Poole. Vera had the couple killed to keep Dr. Poole from doing to Julian, what he did to the calf. Julian probably didn't kill anybody, it was the old guy with the ponytail.

[Jextella]

The plots both last season and this season are pretty ridiculous but I'm ok with that.  Light suspense and mystery are fine with me these days.  And for as silly as both have been, they've done a good job of keeping me guessing.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Jextella

[Jextella]

12 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

I think that Marin was telling Heather that she was lying to herself in thinking that Marin is gay. It was just that one time, and we were both a little drunk, your mom had just died and you were sad and vulnerable, that doesn't mean I'm gay, right? I am a first class peen hound.

The already told you everything that you needed to know to know what happened.

Please don't read if you don't want to be spoiled:

  Reveal hidden contents

The young couple was taking Julian to Dr. Poole. Vera had the couple killed to keep Dr. Poole from doing to Julian, what he did to the calf. Julian probably didn't kill anybody, it was the old guy with the ponytail.

1

Is this spoiler or speculation?

[slothgirl]

40 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

I think that Marin was telling Heather that she was lying to herself in thinking that Marin is gay. It was just that one time, and we were both a little drunk, your mom had just died and you were sad and vulnerable, that doesn't mean I'm gay, right? I am a first class peen hound.

The already told you everything that you needed to know to know what happened.

Please don't read if you don't want to be spoiled:

  Reveal hidden contents

The young couple was taking Julian to Dr. Poole. Vera had the couple killed to keep Dr. Poole from doing to Julian, what he did to the calf. Julian probably didn't kill anybody, it was the old guy with the ponytail.

I'm having a hard time believing that Marin ditched Heather as a friend just because Heather kissed her that night, and they had agreed not to do that again. Did something else happen between them that night that I missed?

I'm also wondering if your hidden comment is an actual spoiler based on things we haven't seen yet or speculation based on what we have seen.

Does it make me a bad person that I'm more bothered by the calf (even though I eat meat... no veal though) than I am about that girl having her uterus removed without her consent? They even developed that part of the story and the characters' reaction to it to generate more disgust in us than what they have done to humans so far.

Edited August 30, 2018 by slothgirl

[Simba122504]

28 minutes ago, slothgirl said:

I'm having a hard time believing that Marin ditched Heather as a friend just because Heather kissed her that night, and they had agreed not to do that again. Did something else happen between them that night that I missed?

I'm also wondering if your hidden comment is an actual spoiler based on things we haven't seen yet or speculation based on what we have seen.

Does it make me a bad person that I'm more bothered by the calf (even though I eat meat... no veal though) than I am about that girl having her uterus removed without her consent? They even developed that part of the story and the characters' reaction to it to generate more disgust in us than what they have done to humans so far.

She was upset Heather was doing something with life. Heather was going away to college.  That's what triggered her. Nothing else happened besides that and the kiss. 

[DangerousMinds]

True spoilers and speculation are not the same thing.

[AnimeMania]

1 minute ago, DangerousMinds said:

True spoilers and speculation are not the same thing.

I wasn't sure if this thread allowed either so I was playing it safe.

[Simba122504]

The description said, Ambrose zeros in on a new suspect. Did I miss something because that did not happen in the episode? Nothing new about the night Julian killed or "killed" his faux parents. Their names escape me. Ambrose questioned Heather's father at the end, but still didn't get any answers. Why is he so against his daughter doing her job? He removed the photos from the table. I figured the cult leader was the father. Children are a no but he has no problems having sex with every new female member. I don't don't if he has sex with the male ones too. He has sex with them, then called cult doctor friend to take care of it.  We knew Julian wasn't lying about his dreams. They were not dreams. This episode was slow. We didn't find out what happened between Ambrose & Vera. If Ambrose was being raised my his mother only, then what happened to the father? At the party someone said "parents" not just your mother. 

[Iguessnot]

12 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I think that Marin was telling Heather that she was lying to herself in thinking that Marin is gay. It was just that one time, and we were both a little drunk, your mom had just died and you were sad and vulnerable, that doesn't mean I'm gay, right? I am a first class peen hound.

The already told you everything that you needed to know to know what happened.

Please don't read if you don't want to be spoiled:

  Hide contents

The young couple was taking Julian to Dr. Poole. Vera had the couple killed to keep Dr. Poole from doing to Julian, what he did to the calf. Julian probably didn't kill anybody, it was the old guy with the ponytail.

That doesn't make much sense because IIRC, on the night of drunkenness, Marin was propositioning the fight fighter or some other dude. We weren't shown all that happened, particularly how Heather was involved. Additionally in every flashback of Heather and Marin, they are being sexual at some level. It's possible that Marin might say she isn't gay, But she is a grade A tease.

[Jextella]

So, we have 3 episodes to go.  I recall from the last season, we really had no viable clues until the last episode or two.   Seems

Spoiler

the dad

didn't enter the picture until then if I'm remembering correctly.  If this season follows suit, there is still much we don't know - won't know - until the next two episodes or so.  The truth could be in something we don't even have a clue about yet.

What we know now:

• Two missing people - Marin and the Beacon (at least he's not at the commune)
• One dead body in a lake
• One unknown person living in a storage unit
• Marin pregnant by an unknown man
• Marin's tattoo - Bess and the guy who were killed didn't have these tattoos, right?  Could it be only those targeted in some special way get them?
• Jack doesn't seem to recognize Marin's tattoo; is neighbors with a guy from Mosswood
• Unresolved conflict between Marin and Heather
• A shift in cult beliefs perhaps?  I'm guessing the Beacon sees things differently than what the farmer's grandfather started
• Long history of cult-like behavior in the area - ties with one of Ambrose's reasons for leaving - different religious philosophies, etc. dating back to when the land was settled; he mentioned Joseph Smith as an example and said "it's in the soil" ... which explains the farm connection.
• Seems like a brief change of hands when the time the land was leased to a corporate retreat for a time (could this be where Interlogix somehow gets involved - assuming it does...I have to think it's involved somehow - other wise, why even say the name early on)
• Farm name = Fisher King Farms...Fisher King = In Arthurian legend, the Fisher King, also known as the Wounded King or Maimed King, is the last in a long line charged with keeping the Holy Grail (from Wikipedia; there's more if you care to read it)
• Vera - perhaps questioning some of Mosswood's practices?
• Kid-free zone; with abortions and sterilizations
• Animal sacrifices - cows in particular
• Julian told Vera he didn't eat the meat served in prison.
• Drugs - the tea; slipping Ambrose with something; possibly drugging the farm guy before he beats whatever/whoever (Heather says she's not sure what they did to him, but he's not the person she knows)
• Could somebody else have killed Bess and Adam, e.g. the guy with the ponytail?

For consideration - right now, Julian seems to know something is not right at Mosswood, and is scared.  Could this be an act?  Could he be in on all this in some wierd way?

Edited August 31, 2018 by Jextella

[tennisgurl]

I dont know, I do think we got a few things confirmed. We now know that Julian is probably Marins kid, and that the reason there are no kids around is because Dr. Poole does abortions on any woman that gets pregnant because passing shadows onto kids is bad or something. But what is ok is animal sacrifices! And why Vera might seem like a true believer, she seemed to have some doubts back in the day. 

Its also continues to confirm that Mosswood has major ties to the town, and more people might be connected. Honestly, maybe its just because I am more or less desperate for decent TV at this late summer TV dead zone, but I am alright with the mystery taking awhile. I wasnt expecting to get a bunch of answers throughout. 

I kind of wonder if it will end like last season 

Spoiler

where, despite all the creepy stuff implied, it turned out the conclusion was relatively mundane. It seems less likely with this one, which already has a cult, magic rock that has existed for years, and animal, sacrifice. I am expecting something at least a little messed up.

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, Jextella said:

• Marin pregnant by an unknown man
• Marin's tattoo - Bess and the guy who were killed didn't have these tattoos, right?  Could it be only those targeted in some special way get them?
• Seems like a brief change of hands when the time the land was leased to a corporate retreat for a time (could this be where Interlogix somehow gets involved - assuming it does...I have to think it's involved somehow - other wise, why even say the name early on)

Confirmed that Julian's father was Dr. Poole.

Marin's tattoo is from a book that Dr. Poole wrote, and symbolizes a hidden maze.

Interlogix was mentioned early on because Vera used to work there. 

What is the clicking electronic device and how long have they been using it?

When did Dr. Poole leave and how long has Vera been in charge?

When did Marin leave?

 

2 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

That doesn't make much sense because IIRC, on the night of drunkenness, Marin was propositioning the fight fighter or some other dude. We weren't shown all that happened, particularly how Heather was involved. Additionally in every flashback of Heather and Marin, they are being sexual at some level. It's possible that Marin might say she isn't gay, But she is a grade A tease.

I think the something between Heather and Marin happened way before the night you are referring to.  Way before Marin was heavy into the cult, spouting their nonsense and getting the tattoo.

[Iguessnot]

I thought the clicking clock was a hypnosis tool. 

When asked who he was beating up, the guy waffled and claimed he was beating up himself. Two episodes ago, I thought the Beacon was being beaten, but if he was running the therapy, I'm sure he had a scapegoat there instead, just like Vera was the scapegoat being raped.

It seems Vera was kind of excited for a hot second when the Beacon agreed to let Marin continue her pregnancy, until he started using cow release lingo. Maybe that's why the Beacon is no longer around.

On 8/30/2018 at 4:55 PM, AnimeMania said:

Confirmed that Julian's father was Dr. Poole.

Marin's tattoo is from a book that Dr. Poole wrote, and symbolizes a hidden maze.

Interlogix was mentioned early on because Vera used to work there. 

What is the clicking electronic device and how long have they been using it?

When did Dr. Poole leave and how long has Vera been in charge?

When did Marin leave?

 

I think the something between Heather and Marin happened way before the night you are referring to.  Way before Marin was heavy into the cult, spouting their nonsense and getting the tattoo.

Dr. Poole was the OBGYN who cut his own throat, not the Beacon, the cult leader whose name I don't remember.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Iguessnot
Can't believe I switched up Poole/Beacon in this post.

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, Iguessnot said:

I thought the clicking clock was a hypnosis tool. 

When asked who he was beating up, the guy waffled and claimed he was beating up himself. Two episodes ago, I thought the Beacon was being beaten, but if he was running the therapy, I'm sure he had a scapegoat there instead, just like Vera was the scapegoat being raped.

It seems Vera was kind of excited for a hot second when Dr. Poole agreed to let Marin continue her pregnancy, until he started using cow release lingo. Maybe that's why the Beacon is no longer around.

Dr. Poole was the OBGYN who cut his own throat, not the Beacon, the cult leader whose name I don't remember.

Yes, I meant Dr. Jeffries (The Beacon), not Dr. Poole. And the worst part was I corrected somebody earlier for making the same mistake.

I was more interested in which cult leader used the hypnosis tool first, Dr. Jeffries or Vera.

[Madding crowd]

It seemed pretty obvious when The Beacon asked her to name the cow and then asked her to name Marin’s child where the story is going. Last year I felt there were too many red herrings and the payoff seemed pedestrian compared to the hints of what it might be.

This year has an interesting idea but is moving very slowly and I’m not expecting any amazing twists. I continue to love Bill Pullman and the actors in general. 

Edited August 30, 2018 by Madding crowd

[Jextella]

2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Confirmed that Julian's father was Dr. Poole.

 

Did I miss something?  I don't think Julian's father has been identified.   

56 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

It seemed pretty obvious when The Beacon asked her to name the cow and then asked her to name Marin’s child where the story is going. Last year I felt there were too many red herrings and the payoff seemed pedestrian compared to the hints of what it might be.

This year has an interesting idea but is moving very slowly and I’m not expecting any amazing twists. I continue to love Bill Pullman and the actors in general. 

Agreed on all points.  The actors are what's holding this thing together.  I continue to love Bill Pullman as well.  (Ok, and all the others too) :)

Interesting point about Marin naming those who are to be offered up.

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, Jextella said:

4 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Confirmed that Julian's father was Dr. Poole.   Dr. Jeffries (The Beacon)

 

Did I miss something?  I don't think Julian's father has been identified.   

2 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

It seemed pretty obvious when The Beacon asked her to name the cow and then asked her to name Marin’s child where the story is going. Last year I felt there were too many red herrings and the payoff seemed pedestrian compared to the hints of what it might be.

This year has an interesting idea but is moving very slowly and I’m not expecting any amazing twists. I continue to love Bill Pullman and the actors in general. 

 

Agreed on all points.  The actors are what's holding this thing together.  I continue to love Bill Pullman as well.  (Ok, and all the others too) :)

Interesting point about Marin naming those who are to be offered up.

Vera and Dr. Jeffries (The Beacon) were discussing that Dr. Jeffries got Marin pregnant and Vera wanted to get Marin an abortion, Dr. Jeffries said Marin should keep it. Then Dr. Jeffries asked Vera if Marin had thought up a name for the baby. Vera was the one who thought up the name for the calf.

[patty1h]

I was watching on DirecTV Now and it was having hellacious audio problems and stuttering, so I couldn't understand the scene between Ambrose and Heather's father.  Ambrose came in the house and the dad was saying Ambrose should have left town.  Why is the father now so negative towards his old friend and doesn't seem to want him involved in solving the crime?

[Madding crowd]

2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Vera and Dr. Jeffries (The Beacon) were discussing that Dr. Jeffries got Marin pregnant and Vera wanted to get Marin an abortion, Dr. Jeffries said Marin should keep it. Then Dr. Jeffries asked Vera if Marin had thought up a name for the baby. Vera was the one who thought up the name for the calf.

I’m aware of the conversation. I just think there is significance in the naming of the cow and its intended purpose and the discussion on the naming of the child. We do know that Marin had the name Julian in mind. 

[DangerousMinds]

NM

Edited August 31, 2018 by DangerousMinds

[tpel]

OK, so Julian was raised to be sacrificed, like the cow. It was Dr. Jeffries' idea. Vera wasn't crazy about doing it to the cow, and she seems genuinely attached to Julian, so I don't see her being all that eager to sacrifice the child she raised. But I could be wrong about that; she's hard to read. If we assume that Julian was abducted to spare him from this fate, that raises some new questions. Were the couple who abducted Julian working against Vera or for her? Is Jeffries still around, pulling the strings?

[ferjy]

4 hours ago, patty1h said:

I was watching on DirecTV Now and it was having hellacious audio problems and stuttering, so I couldn't understand the scene between Ambrose and Heather's father.  Ambrose came in the house and the dad was saying Ambrose should have left town.  Why is the father now so negative towards his old friend and doesn't seem to want him involved in solving the crime?

Jack’s cover story is that he’s concerned for Heather’s career. But like others here have mentioned, I think he’s involved in this somehow and has his own agenda. He didn’t seem happy about Harry being there from the start. 

Edited August 31, 2018 by ferjy

[AnimeMania]

5 hours ago, patty1h said:

I was watching on DirecTV Now and it was having hellacious audio problems and stuttering, so I couldn't understand the scene between Ambrose and Heather's father.  Ambrose came in the house and the dad was saying Ambrose should have left town.  Why is the father now so negative towards his old friend and doesn't seem to want him involved in solving the crime?

The only thing I can think of is there are a faction of the cult that want Julian to be sacrificed for their sins and the others don't. There is also Purple Lake where all the bodies are buried, maybe they (people who want investigation wrapped up quickly) don't want it's location to be revealed, and how many/who is in there to be discovered.

[ferjy]

4 hours ago, tpel said:

OK, so Julian was raised to be sacrificed, like the cow. It was Dr. Jeffries' idea. Vera wasn't crazy about doing it to the cow, and she seems genuinely attached to Julian, so I don't see her being all that eager to sacrifice the child she raised. But I could be wrong about that; she's hard to read. If we assume that Julian was abducted to spare him from this fate, that raises some new questions. Were the couple who abducted Julian working against Vera or for her? Is Jeffries still around, pulling the strings?

I wondered that too. I’m leaning more towards the couple working against Vera. Vera keeps saying how important Julian is. Right from the start it looked like he was intended as a sacrifice. Of course in a twist it could mean that Vera thinks Julian is special because he is the only child there and maybe he’ll be a precedent for more children being allowed in the commune. Or maybe he’s important because he’s the Beacon’s child and she believes Julian has certain powers. In that case, Vera probably planned with the couple to take Julian to safety, and she probably got rid of Jeffries. We haven’t had enough hard clues to support either theory completely.

[Jextella]

2 hours ago, ferjy said:

I wondered that too. I’m leaning more towards the couple working against Vera. Vera keeps saying how important Julian is. Right from the start it looked like he was intended as a sacrifice. Of course in a twist it could mean that Vera thinks Julian is special because he is the only child there and maybe he’ll be a precedent for more children being allowed in the commune. Or maybe he’s important because he’s the Beacon’s child and she believes Julian has certain powers. In that case, Vera probably planned with the couple to take Julian to safety, and she probably got rid of Jeffries. We haven’t had enough hard clues to support either theory completely.

I think there is something in the timing with all this and the transfer of land and the cattle guy.

His grandfather stood near the stone years ago - well before the Beacon came on the scene.  The land was leased out to a company for corporate retreats but that went belly up.  At one point, the land was sold to Jeffries.  I'm not clear on the timing of these two things but I think it somehow matters.

Just guessing that the commune owns the land now...not sure if it's still in Jeffries' name or not, though.

I also think the fact that the cattle guy's farm is called Fisher King is important.  He is the protector of whatever it was his grandfather believed in.  It may also be relevant that under the Beacon, violence was part of the religion and that this was a "new" component of the "work" since he is the one who instituted it.  Seems like what the religion was is different than what it is today which could somehow explain the Beacon's absence.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

This episode confirmed that Marin is Julian's mother but I don't think we know for sure that Jeffries, "The Beacon" is the father. Marin just tells Vera that "he" is the father. That could be someone who triggered her into joining Mosswood or it could be The Beacon. Logic dictates that it is Jeffries since we saw her go in a room with him and it was exactly 9 months after she arrived at Mosswood but I wouldn't say we know for 100% sure. Pretty cold of the Beacon to plan to kill his own child if that's what he is planning after the calf.

And I just have to say, that OF COURSE, women are expected to get abortions and hysterectomies in order to keep the cult child-free but no one is suggesting that the men get vasectomies.

 

[slothgirl]

(moved to speculation thead)

[Dowel Jones]

I wonder about the drawing that Julian kept working on.  Is it a representation of the labyrinth?  It shows up several times throughout the episodes.

For what it's worth, the metronome clicks at 36 beats per minute.  I can't think of anything offhand that correlates to, but it might mean something to "the work".

Just as an aside, unless Mosswood is registered as a church, all that land would presumably be subject to property taxes, even at a low rate as a forest/open range.  Where do they get the money?

[luvapickle]

There was nothing that said Jeffries was the father. In fact he seemed surprised when Vera said Marin was pregnant. I think, it's Deputy Andy-he's always around, but doesn't say much. And it's established those in town know more about Mosswood than they say, including popping in there once in awhile. The body showing up next week may be male, & could be Jeffries since we have not seen him in the present time. And it's possible Ambrose's father was part of the cult at some point. They've established Mosswood being there a lot longer than initially thought.

Edited August 31, 2018 by luvapickle

[SaySay24]

I think the father is Heather’s Dad, and I’ve thought so since the first? episode where he walked in on the two in bed and looked at Marin’s bare legs. 

I love the show, and I think it has a good amount of suspense for me without being overly scary. 

[bilgistic]

2 hours ago, SaySay24 said:

I think the father is Heather’s Dad, and I’ve thought so since the first? episode where he walked in on the two in bed and looked at Marin’s bare legs.

I also still think this.

It could be a reason for Marin telling Heather she's "lying to herself". Either Heather knew about it and/or Jack was also abusing Heather.

Jack's also definitely involved with Mosswood. Everyone in town (except Heather) is. Don't believe their lies, Ambrose!

[Jextella]

On 8/31/2018 at 2:35 PM, luvapickle said:

There was nothing that said Jeffries was the father. In fact he seemed surprised when Vera said Marin was pregnant. I think, it's Deputy Andy-he's always around, but doesn't say much. And it's established those in town know more about Mosswood than they say, including popping in there once in awhile. The body showing up next week may be male, & could be Jeffries since we have not seen him in the present time. And it's possible Ambrose's father was part of the cult at some point. They've established Mosswood being there a lot longer than initially thought.

This could be.  Thinking of how the first season went down, we really had no clues leading up to end until the last two episodes if I recall correctly.  Thus far, Andy hasn't been presented as a suspect on the show....could be that changes next week.

[msrachelj]

On 8/29/2018 at 11:22 PM, DakotaLavender said:

OMG all the commercials every five minutes are ridiculous. And another episode where nothing happened. And what does happen is preposterous. They never give any clues to why Julian murdered that couple. They tell small things that don't even matter. 

I may skip the next couple of episodes which are just inane filler and just watch the last episode. 

yeah, too slow and weird and not enough focus on why he killed them.

that poor calf!!!!

[izabella]

I was glad to see Heather giving Ambrose side eye for suddenly believing everything Vera says, for protecting her and the compound, especially after she poisoned him with some drug that made him lose his memory.  WTF?  Is he actually a detective of some kind?  He seems about ready to move into the compound and start worshiping that big rock himself.

Is anyone else thinking the Beacon dude is buried in the middle of that rock?  Why else was Vera gloming onto it in the last episode?

I don't think Vera sent Julian away with that couple to avoid becoming a sacrifice.  Beacon dude isn't around and she is in charge, so no reason they would have to sacrifice Julian.  She is making the rules at this point, so she can change any sacrifice rules, just like Beacon dude changed his mind about kids at the compound.

[AnimeMania]

3 hours ago, izabella said:

 

I don't think Vera sent Julian away with that couple to avoid becoming a sacrifice.  Beacon dude isn't around and she is in charge, so no reason they would have to sacrifice Julian. 

Unless "Beacon dude" was the the person in the hood (the one Julian keeps drawing) that Julian said came into his room and scared him. Julian says he is real and Vera says he is a nightmare.

[WaltersHair]

I'm okay with the pacing. Heck, compared to Sharp Objects, this series is spewing information. I appreciated the Vera's back story and her co-opting of Julian was for his own good. 

I think there are a number of secrets left and a few townspeople who'd like them left in the lake. Time will tell.

[ferjy]

21 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

I'm okay with the pacing. Heck, compared to Sharp Objects, this series is spewing information. I appreciated the Vera's back story and her co-opting of Julian was for his own good. 

I think there are a number of secrets left and a few townspeople who'd like them left in the lake. Time will tell.

lol re Sharp Objects.

I agree, I find the pacing perfect and find they're holding back just enough to keep the mystery but telling us enough to keep interest.

[atlantaloves]

I don't know how this is going to end, but i'll tell you one thing, this series 2 is a 100 times better than series 1.  I couldn't even finish it, the acting was so horrible. I am enjoying it. 

[endure]

This is so gloomy and boring and I don’t give two hoots about any of the characters.  I do think it is a very slight improvement over the 1st season.