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Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Sequel


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I noticed that Oliver said, "Working with the SCPD and not hiding in the shadows, I truly believe that's what's best for this city. Then we can stay here, and our children can grow up safely" in 715. Makes me think something goes south with the SCPD/vigilante task force thing (because of course that can't last), and Oliver and Felicity do have to leave SC?

4 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Thanks @tv echo

That's the wretched Canary ep although they are showing Mia be born in 716 so I'm 🤔

Maybe Felicity in the All Canary Episode just simply sees a baby and gets gooey or something.  Maybe a Baby is at risk in one of the situations even.  

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

When did he post on Facebook that he'd be back for S8 if Arrow got renewed?  I think that date is key

My guess based on SA's Facebook live is that

S6 SA tells Berlanti he's done when his contract is up at end of S7

Summer between S6/7?  SA gives a verbal agreement to Belanti and Co that he will come back for some episodes in S8, number to be determined.  They had to know he'd be back at least for COEI which was already set up and pitched along with S7 crossover. 

SA/WB/Berlanti agree in Jan/Feb to a 10 episode deal 

At some point last year SA said he was contracted through 2019.  I took it as many did, that he meant through season 8 but I suspect that he'd already hammered out the deal to return for 10 episodes in season 8 and that was it.  Though even without a contract, they could always ASK him to come back as a guest star had they really wanted Oliver to make a return at the end of the season if they had needed or wanted to.  It's just SA wouldn't be required to keep the option open.  

It wouldn't surprise me at all if EBR knew that SA was planning on leaving the show so her making similar plans makes sense.  I'm just not convinced the PTB would give her the same kind of deal as SA or even if they did, if she'd have said yes.  I can't imagine her not being there to wrap the series up, but getting her Full time for all the remaining season 8 episodes does not seem guaranteed.  I DESPERATELY want it but we might not know for sure until after this season is over or even maybe til ComicCon.  

I'm trying to be zen about it.  We can't change it.  At least we know she's not dying in the present for sure.  

I can't remember, are we supposed to worry about her being evil still or has that now been dropped forever? 

10 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

can't remember, are we supposed to worry about her being evil still or has that now been dropped forever

No, Mia said Felicity isn't planning to blow up the city, and the team rationalized that Felicity just found out about the plans and that there's a conspiracy to keep her quiet about it and from the plans from leaking out (faking her death, the guy who saw her die being murdered and the guy who did that guy's autopsy also being murdered)

Edited by way2interested
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I think it's kind of impossible to predict anything at this point, especially with COIE and the FFs backing the present day into a corner and the new villain only just showing up. It will be depressing if EBR leaves or is in like 2 eps and Oliver has to pretend she's run off or they've split up and then he dies. Though hopefully that's a worse case scenario. 

Just hope that with all the wishing that COIE changes stuff that they don't get tempted to Sara Diggle Mia. Because that was the most lasting change about Flashpoint on a different show.

Edited by Featherhat
2 hours ago, Chaser said:

SA wanted out after S7, why is it crazy to think EBR could have had the same thought?

Normally I don’t pay attention to the theories, but I can see how the Flash Forwards could explain an absence if they wanted too.

I really think she’s coming back (esp with the short order and Beth’s comment on her IG post), but I don’t begrudge anyone for theorizing this time that she might not.

Especially since Stephens investment in the show has always far outweighed Emily's. I too would not be surprised if they have Emily be like Chloe in Smallville in season 10 where she only comes back for part of the episodes not all the episodes because they are setting up the storyline that implies that Felicity goes into hiding in the near future right now in season 7. Judging by the fact that no one seemed to know Felicity was pregnant and has a grown adult child. 

That being said whether Emily is in all 10 episodes next season or not I do think they will still give the show a happy/hero ending that she will be apart of. 

I get the worry over what Mia being a secret means for Emily/Felicity in the immediate future but at this point it would seem more vital to send Oliver out of town to keep Mia secret because he was about two minutes from running around SC yelling "We're having a baby!" I actually don't understand anything about how Mia and Felicity were somehow in hiding/not in SC but Felicity launched her company there. Even supposing she's gone for years and Mia stays elsewhere until shortly before the FF, becoming a CEO in the city that your husband was/is infamous in and where being a CEO would put a target on you in addition to the one being Oliver Queen's wife or widow put on you seems like a terrible plan.

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I'm just prepared for any answers we get to not make 100% sense.

So I'm just going to enjoy Dinah, who's apparently such a great cop/investigator that she's the SCPD captain, not noticing that Felicity's pregnant. I would love it if at the end of every episode, Dinah and Rene are like, "let's go to the bar!" and Felicity keeps coming up with excuses that just get more and more ridiculous/borderline energy drink in a syringe. 

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How about this? ...

Felicity forms Smoak Tech this season and starts running it successfully. In the last episode of this season (722), Roy returns to Star City with news, something Very Bad happens and the Vigilante Task Force (Team Arrow) is blamed/framed for it, and Team Arrow has to split up and go into hiding. But before they do, they get the Mark of Four tattoos and make the pact.

So during the summer hiatus, Oliver & Felicity (still pregnant) hide out in the cabin in the woods. Rene takes Zoe and hides out in the Glades (where he later rises to leadership prominence). Dinah goes into hiding in Star City and forms the Canary Network. Diggle goes underground at ARGUS. Roy leaves Star City and eventually ends up hiding out on Lian Yu.

Or how about this? ...

Oliver & Felicity leave Star City for the summer hiatus, during which Felicity gives birth. Because of Dante and whatever happens at the end of S7, they decide to keep their daughter a secret and hide her with the help of Diggle & Lyla/ARGUS. They return to Star City in S8 without Mia, in order to fight the Big Bad.

Edited by tv echo
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I listened to Jbuffyangel's podcast on the latest ep (I don't often because they haven't figured out the sound mix and the screaming is...not great), but they had a pretty decent theory that I hadn't heard before. For years, The Flash has been teasing a future in which Barry fights this season's villain and then goes missing for 21 years. Perhaps Oliver's deal with the Monitor means he'll be the one who goes missing instead? I don't want it to happen because I'd prefer the future that we're seeing gets erased/changed soon, but the timing fits.

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17 minutes ago, Trisha said:

I listened to Jbuffyangel's podcast on the latest ep (I don't often because they haven't figured out the sound mix and the screaming is...not great), but they had a pretty decent theory that I hadn't heard before. For years, The Flash has been teasing a future in which Barry fights this season's villain and then goes missing for 21 years. Perhaps Oliver's deal with the Monitor means he'll be the one who goes missing instead? I don't want it to happen because I'd prefer the future that we're seeing gets erased/changed soon, but the timing fits.

Well in the comic storyline Barry disappears/"Dies" and Kara Dies. Maybe Oliver Disappears and Someone else Dies? 

6 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I listened to the podcast. They are going to be surprised when KC leaves the show. I laughed when they said cutting her hair isn’t proof cause Willa cut her hair. Willa cut her hair during hiatus, EBR cut her hair during hiatus, you don’t cut your hair during filming. 

EK grew a beard during filming and people still didn't believe he was gone, so it's probably the same kind of thing

20 minutes ago, Trisha said:

I listened to Jbuffyangel's podcast on the latest ep (I don't often because they haven't figured out the sound mix and the screaming is...not great), but they had a pretty decent theory that I hadn't heard before. For years, The Flash has been teasing a future in which Barry fights this season's villain and then goes missing for 21 years. Perhaps Oliver's deal with the Monitor means he'll be the one who goes missing instead? I don't want it to happen because I'd prefer the future that we're seeing gets erased/changed soon, but the timing fits.

Barry goes missing in 2024 for 25 years, not 21. It might change since Cicada has come early but they are annoyingly not even trying to connect or figure out Barry's future disappearance. They haven't even touched if anything they are doing now changes anything (and apparently it hasn't so far since Nora who's from 2049 is still around and doesn't suddenly have memories of her dad) Oliver goes missing circa 2019/2020 for 20/21 years. 

Like, they're similar set-ups, but they haven't established if they even could be connected and are keeping them pretty close to their own show logic. Not saying that isn't what's happening (it could be why each show is blatantly ignoring the idea of their main character disappearing for the time being), but it would help if the shows could at least push the connection to the crossover (make it that they disappeared in Nov/Dec, make it clear it was during a big deal moment, etc.), rather than imply it probably happened circa 722/hiatus/801 for Arrow and then not even hint that Barry's disappearance has changed from 2024. Literally the only hint/connection is the end of the last crossover, since each show wants to keep their own plot close to their chests without wanting to try to even show a timeline connection between the two. 

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29 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Literally the only hint/connection is the end of the last crossover, since each show wants to keep their own plot close to their chests without wanting to try to even show a timeline connection between the two.

I wonder if it was a hint about the crossover this week when Thawne said that another timeline was trying to break through. I'm assuming that's Crisis connected which gives me hope, because if Crisis introduces another timeline than presumably everything we're seeing in Arrow's flashforwards is malleable.

I'm still pretty convinced that Oliver is going to get some semblance of a happy ending. I just don't know if it's going to be in the present with a timeline change (which is my hope) or if it will be in the future, with Mia and William rescuing Felicity and then the three of them finding Oliver (which would bum me out because it still means that the characters I love spend the next 20 years in misery). 

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1 hour ago, Chaser said:

I listened to the podcast. They are going to be surprised when KC leaves the show. I laughed when they said cutting her hair isn’t proof cause Willa cut her hair. Willa cut her hair during hiatus, EBR cut her hair during hiatus, you don’t cut your hair during filming. 

You do....if it serves storyline but I don't that's the case here.

8 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

I think they gonna rewrite the FF

Arrow:Legacies coming to CW 2020ish lol. I definitely wouldnt mind them rewriting the Future storyline BUT they still might not. They could easily have one of the remaining episodes of Arrow show Mia donning her father's famous outfit and they are still in the Timeline where She doesnt even know her dad growing up, or that she had an older brother until shes 19-20 years old. I may be in the minority but I'm SO DOWN for the show IF Mia William JJ with Older Roy and Felicity at least are the main cast

Edited by jay741982
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Just now, jay741982 said:

Arrow:Legacies coming to CW 2020ish lol. I definitely wouldnt mind them rewriting the Future storyline BUT they still might not. They could easily have one of the remaining episodes of Arrow show Mia donning her father's famous outfit and they are still in the Timeline where She doesnt even know her dad growing up, or that she had an older brother until shes 19-20 years old 

It fits with Stephen saying he will be around the arrowvers. People thought its gonna be Flash, LOT. But it was probably gonna be the spinoff with Mia.

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1 minute ago, Velocity23 said:

It fits with Stephen saying he will be around the arrowvers. People thought its gonna be Flash, LOT. But it was probably gonna be the spinoff with Mia.

Yep I can see it. I think 716 being all FF is to see if people would like a direct Arrow Sequel/Spinoff with Olicity Baby Mia being the character its centered around

3 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I wasn’t keen on a Mia Smoak spin-off but I’ve enjoyed her and Will more then I thought I would. If they give me a happy ending, I would be tempted to check it out. 

Same! Then actually tweak the Future storyline to be a little bit lighter and leave the Darkness to BatWoman series 

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22 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I wasn’t keen on a Mia Smoak spin-off but I’ve enjoyed her and Will more then I thought I would. If they give me a happy ending, I would be tempted to check it out. 

Yeah, a few weeks ago, I was a definite no. But I've really grown to adore William and Mia together. If they fix the timeline so they got to grow up together with both their parents (and their little brother Lucas), I'm in. I'm already looking forward to the episode where their parents leave Aruba to come to visit their offspring.

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Cw seems to be running out of ideas. Remakes and Spin offs are all they have now. Last year there was speculation that they would do a spinoff of the Originals with Klaus kid and it happened.  I believe this is what they want to re-create with Arrow now since the universe is still profitable. I just hope they give Olicity a well deserved send off.

That site is notoriously shady (although, as they hilariously boast in that article, they were the first to break the news that Arrow would be ending in season 8). If the CW is seriously considering a Mia-focused spinoff, I have much less hope that they're going to alter the future in the crossover. They've done quite a bit of world-building -- and more is coming -- about how Star City and the Glades look 20 years from now. If that future gets changed and Mia and William end up having happy childhoods, then they will presumably grow up to be different people (more trusting, less violent). I can't see the CW hanging a spinoff on characters that we basically don't know. 

27 minutes ago, Trisha said:

That site is notoriously shady (although, as they hilariously boast in that article, they were the first to break the news that Arrow would be ending in season 8). If the CW is seriously considering a Mia-focused spinoff, I have much less hope that they're going to alter the future in the crossover. They've done quite a bit of world-building -- and more is coming -- about how Star City and the Glades look 20 years from now. If that future gets changed and Mia and William end up having happy childhoods, then they will presumably grow up to be different people (more trusting, less violent). I can't see the CW hanging a spinoff on characters that we basically don't know. 

I agree. 

I probably wouldn't watch a show set in that dumpster fire future (especially if something tragic ultimately winds up happening to Oliver and/or Felicity), so selfishly I'd rather them just fix what they've done than set a whole show in it. 

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6 hours ago, tv echo said:

How about this? ...

Felicity forms Smoak Tech this season and starts running it successfully. In the last episode of this season (722), Roy returns to Star City with news, something Very Bad happens and the Vigilante Task Force (Team Arrow) is blamed/framed for it, and Team Arrow has to split up and go into hiding. But before they do, they get the Mark of Four tattoos and make the pact.

So during the summer hiatus, Oliver & Felicity (still pregnant) hide out in the cabin in the woods. Rene takes Zoe and hides out in the Glades (where he later rises to leadership prominence). Dinah goes into hiding in Star City and forms the Canary Network. Diggle goes underground at ARGUS. Roy leaves Star City and eventually ends up hiding out on Lian Yu.

Or how about this? ...

Oliver & Felicity leave Star City for the summer hiatus, during which Felicity gives birth. Because of Dante and whatever happens at the end of S7, they decide to keep their daughter a secret and hide her with the help of Diggle & Lyla/ARGUS. They return to Star City in S8 without Mia, in order to fight the Big Bad.

I like the idea of the whole team scattering.  Or at least Oliver and Felicity going into hiding together.  It would explain why they don't show up in Central City and force William to talk to them immediately.  

2 hours ago, JJ928 said:

I've seen some twitter people speculate that they could do a young justice with these future Arrow characters & Nora from Flash. I am not familiar with that comic/show, so I don't know how that'd work.

Young Justice is a really well done series.  In it, the next generation works concurrently on often more undercover stuff while the big name heroes are the face of the Justice League.  In season one they were mostly the side kicks (most were still in high school-many were in JUNIOR High) wanting more responsibility and respect so they were given side missions and extra training as their own team.  By the second season (and a time jump) one of theirs had become the one handing out the missions and they were even more their own separate League.    

4 minutes ago, Trisha said:

That site is notoriously shady (although, as they hilariously boast in that article, they were the first to break the news that Arrow would be ending in season 8). If the CW is seriously considering a Mia-focused spinoff, I have much less hope that they're going to alter the future in the crossover. They've done quite a bit of world-building -- and more is coming -- about how Star City and the Glades look 20 years from now. If that future gets changed and Mia and William end up having happy childhoods, then they will presumably grow up to be different people (more trusting, less violent). I can't see the CW hanging a spinoff on characters that we basically don't know. 

Maybe, maybe not.  The pilot for Batwoman is going to be set before when we met her in the crossover.  It's not undoing anything but it's not the same as how she was introduced.  If they went with a clean slate future for Oliver and family, they could keep their personalities but fit the future to anything the new show would need to make it work.  

I don't think William would be wildly different, just have fewer abandonment issues (though still some, what with mom dying and separations from Olicity and being stalked by a killer for a while).  And Mia if she had her dad in her life would still have ended up getting all her training and likely would have a similar personality since even if she was secure in her parent's love, she'd butt up against his over protective nature and just being so alike. 

And you know she'd sneak off to prove her abilities.  The biggest difference would be hating vigilantes.  But she could even still have that, resentful of how much time that life took away from them as a family.  A Queen Family HEA is still going to be full of trials.  

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15 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

A Queen Family HEA is still going to be full of trials.  

I agree with you @BkWurm1. William and Mia could grow up and have a happy family life with their parents, but still be traumatized by kidnappings, attempts on their parents' lives, the general suckiness of Star City, etc. Plus, Beth said that everything about the future would be revealed in S7, so I'm not even sure to what extent next season's flash forwards will be taking place in the same timeline or dealing with the same story.

In any case, I think Mia and William could be equally compelling without the currently awful 2040 circumstances. Personally, I'd be way more interested in finding out how growing up under the same roof as a superhero has affected them than I am in seeing how not growing up with Oliver has affected them.

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If a spin-off is in fact happening, then I very much hope it's based on a rewritten future. Since the flash forwards have been universally panned for being so depressing, I think it's kinda weird they would consider a spin-off based on them, but stranger things have happened, I suppose. I doubt I'd watch either version, but I'm all for whatever means there isn't 20 years of separation and misery in store for Oliver and Felicity. 

Dinah and Rene can suffer though. I'm willing to offer them up as a sacrifice. 

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I just can't imagine anyone thinking a spin-off based on this bleak-ass future is a viable option. Dystopian futures are a totally viable thing (not so much for me personally but in general) but you generally haven't the watched previous generation work for years to save the city in question and be excited for the birth of the child whose life is going to suck. William was kidnapped multiple times before his father's identity was known so Mia having an edge due to growing up as the daughter of the acknowledged Green Arrow would be completely believable.

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I don't know how I feel about an Arrow spin-off, to be honest. It depends on what other characters would be in it. Yes, give me one about Mia. Yes, I want William and Connor in it. But under no circumstances do I want Dinah, Rene, or Zoe to even be recurring. 

Also, wasn't there a time we'd get photos for the next episode the day after the previous episode aired? Wish we'd get the 716 photos already. 

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37 minutes ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

I just can't imagine anyone thinking a spin-off based on this bleak-ass future is a viable option. Dystopian futures are a totally viable thing (not so much for me personally but in general) but you generally haven't the watched previous generation work for years to save the city in question and be excited for the birth of the child whose life is going to suck. William was kidnapped multiple times before his father's identity was known so Mia having an edge due to growing up as the daughter of the acknowledged Green Arrow would be completely believable.

Dirty looking people running around is never pleasant. 

***

They really need to keep Ben Lewis for any spin off. Kat is decent but Ben has been the stand out for me. He's just slotted into his role perfectly. Plus they have excellent sibling chemistry.  

ETA: Casting for adult Zoe is such a fail. She's got this really vacant look all the time. Like she's spacing out for lunch. I don't even pay much attention to her but she looks so not there.

Edited by Mellowyellow
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23 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Also, wasn't there a time we'd get photos for the next episode the day after the previous episode aired? Wish we'd get the 716 photos already. 

Yeah, I mean, 2 were already released back when 713 came out, most of the rest are probably from the same scene, so it's not like they are super spoilery or don't have them on hand.

4 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Yeah, I mean, 2 were already released back when 713 came out, most of the rest are probably from the same scene, so it's not like they are super spoilery or don't have them on hand.

Yeah, that's what I expect too. Probably mostly photos of Mia, William and Connor. Maybe a couple of that Kevin guy looking shady. 

Then again, I saw that the CW released photos from tomorrow's Supernatural today, so they're not just dropping the ball on Arrow. 

1 hour ago, way2interested said:

Hey, when they find out he's in league with Kevin and the people really trying to blow up the city and kill Felicity, I definitely expect her to punch him.

Kat said she has 3 fights in that episode. Would love to see her go Ham and whoop Rene and Kevin's asses. Maybe after hearing of mom's "death"?

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Mia: "So, you're the one who swung an axe at my father?"

William: "You can punch him later." 

Would love to see this 

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