Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Sequel

[Mrs. de Winter]

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

Odd, this is one time where I could kind of understand him not saying anything.  If there really isn't anything to do about it, it would be hard to knowingly cast that pall over whatever time is left. 

I take this logic to a point - but Oliver still knows - so the pall is still there for me.  And it is going to be for at least a year.  Topped off with the stupid flash forwards that is a lot of suck for one season.  

[apinknightmare]

Just now, scarynikki12 said:

I agree. I don’t think it’ll be secret for too long (next fall at the latest to set up Crisis if nothing else) but I get where he’s coming from if he doesn’t tell anyone. He’s probably hoping that he goes out a hero and no one will ever know. 

I agree as well. For once he actually had no choice and did the right thing and since there isn't an immediate way to fix it, it doesn't seem worth the pain it would cause to tell anyone about it.

[scarynikki12]

Just now, Angel12d said:

This is another reason the FF suck. Without them I could've had hope for like a whole year that some of NTA would die in the next crossover but alas, it's not meant to be. 😢😂

They can still die in the FF and we’ll no doubt see their doppelgängers get smashed. 

[Chaser]

1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

This is another reason the FF suck. Without them I could've had hope for like a whole year that some of NTA would die in the next crossover but alas, it's not meant to be. 😢😂

This is where it gets timey-wimey. They are dealing with merging earths and time crap. What if the Furture we see is the one that would exist before Crisis?

[apinknightmare]

Just now, Chaser said:

This is where it gets timey-wimey. They are dealing with merging earths and time crap. What if the Furture we see is the one that would exist before Crisis?

The one time I hope for major fallout from a catastrophic event.

[Angel12d]

2 minutes ago, Chaser said:

This is where it gets timey-wimey. They are dealing with merging earths and time crap. What if the Furture we see is the one that would exist before Crisis?

I would be ok with that.

Climbing back on my "hope NTA die" train! 😂

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

This is where it gets timey-wimey. They are dealing with merging earths and time crap. What if the Furture we see is the one that would exist before Crisis?

It seems like a real possibility. 

It's also possible that the Dinah we see in the future is not the Dinah we actually know now but one from another earth.  

[tennisgurl]

It seems like they might be setting up Oliver for dying in the crossover next year, or something like that, but that almost seems too obvious now. Maybe he just lost years of his life? Or he will lose his memories? Or something like that? Damn it Oliver! I know he wont tell Felicity, but it would be awesome if he actually did. 

But then, Kara and Barry famously both died and had all memories of them erased from the timeline in the original Crisis story in the comics, so maybe this is Oliver rewriting their destinies from the original story/timeline, and is going to die instead, with him being ret-conned out of existence? At least for awhile?

*sobs*

[Mellowyellow]

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

It seems like a real possibility. 

It's also possible that the Dinah we see in the future is not the Dinah we actually know now but one from another earth.  

Well she certainly didn't improve even after a catastrophic event and an earth switch! Say's a lot about Dinahs in general!

[Chaser]

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

It seems like a real possibility. 

It's also possible that the Dinah we see in the future is not the Dinah we actually know now but one from another earth.  

And she’s awful on all of them!

[Mrs. de Winter]

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

It's also possible that the Dinah we see in the future is not the Dinah we actually know now but one from another earth. 

How depressing there is more than one of her.  And how unsurprising that they both suck. 

So what odds would you give me on Felicity getting pregnant this season in time to give birth around next year's crossover time when Oliver's number comes up? 

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, Mrs. de Winter said:

So what odds would you give me on Felicity getting pregnant this season in time to give birth around next year's crossover time when Oliver's number comes up? 

Well, they would have to make his impending doom as sucky and sad as possible, so...high I guess. 

[jay741982]

30 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

BTW don't Supergirl and Flash/Barry Allen die in Crisis? 

Supergirl dies and Barry/Flash Dissappers from what I remember hearing 

35 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

Could Crisis take place in the future? Maybe Nora messes up the timeline and Crisis happens later?

I'd say like with Cicada appearing earlier in the timeline she caused Crisis to happen EARLIER 

[JamieLynn832002]

14 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

This is another reason the FF suck. Without them I could've had hope for like a whole year that some of NTA would die in the next crossover but alas, it's not meant to be. 😢😂

Hey, at least right now, Curtis could still die so there's some hope.

[Mrs. de Winter]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

Well, they would have to make his impending doom as sucky and sad as possible, so...high I guess. 

I will forgive this constant treat Oliver like crap and screw Arrow for the crossovers if the last scene of next year's crossover includes Oliver happily meeting his new, baby daughter (full life restored) while Barry and Kara explain to her that Oliver is the best person they know and how unworthy they are of his friendship. 

Ha,Ha,Ha - sorry I lost it for a moment.  Sucky & sad impending doom it is.  

[jay741982]

23 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I think Oliver sacrificing whatever (years off his life I’m guessing) saved Barry and Kara from Crisis deaths. I agree that he won’t die in the Crisis (or get revived if he does) but I expect we’ll see the collateral damage in the form of supporting and guest characters. And the doppelgängers from the multiverse. 

Arrow Buckles Down on forcing the unpopular characters down our throat so I won't be Surprised if Diggle and Lyla dies maybe even Thea and Roy. While Dinah Siren Curtis and Rene all survive.

[Angel12d]

13 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

It seems like a real possibility. 

It's also possible that the Dinah we see in the future is not the Dinah we actually know now but one from another earth.  

You mean Dinah is a smug asshole on every earth? We can't catch a break! 😂

4 minutes ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

Hey, at least right now, Curtis could still die so there's some hope.

LOVE that. 

[tennisgurl]

Hope springs eternal that Curtis could die, and possibly be wiped from the timeline. Now, if only he could be wiped from my memory as well. 

Maybe the flashforwards are in one timeline, while we are in another one? Or this is a Dianh and William from another Earth, and thats why they dont know Maya?

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, Mrs. de Winter said:

I will forgive this constant treat Oliver like crap and screw Arrow for the crossovers if the last scene of next year's crossover includes Oliver happily meeting his new, baby daughter (full life restored) while Barry and Kara explain to her that Oliver is the best person they know and how unworthy they are of his friendship. 

Ha,Ha,Ha - sorry I lost it for a moment.  Sucky & sad impending doom it is.  

Monitor plays a role in Crisis and they used Elseworlds to setup Crisis so perhaps the best way to look at Elseworlds is part 1 of a 2 part story? Maybe shitting on Oliver and having him make a deal to save Barry/Kara (so they can save Earth in Crisis) gets paid off in Crisis. It's got to mean something that Barry/Supergirl die/disappear in Crisis comics and this deal was for them to make it to the Crisis Crossover.

[apinknightmare]

Has anyone seen a postmortem on this? I looked on TVLine and EW and haven't seen anything - you'd think they'd want to tease this (and I was hoping to get maybe one quarter of an answer about Oliver).

[Trisha]

20 minutes ago, Mrs. de Winter said:

I take this logic to a point - but Oliver still knows - so the pall is still there for me.  And it is going to be for at least a year.  Topped off with the stupid flash forwards that is a lot of suck for one season.  

Right? I was already having a hard time with them doubling down on all the bleakness this season with both the present and flash forwards, but now it feels like they’re tripling down on it! And I can’t imagine Oliver talking about his conversation with Monitor until next season’s crossover - so we just have to fret about this for a whole year on top of everything else?

[scarynikki12]

8 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

Arrow Buckles Down on forcing the unpopular characters down our throat so I won't be Surprised if Diggle and Lyla dies maybe even Thea and Roy. While Dinah Siren Curtis and Rene all survive.

 

[Morrigan2575]

Quote

Has anyone seen a postmortem on this? I looked on TVLine and EW and haven't seen anything - you'd think they'd want to tease this (and I was hoping to get maybe one quarter of an answer about Oliver).

No just IGN and Comicbook.com talking about it for 2019

Edited December 12, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

Just now, Trisha said:

And I can’t imagine Oliver talking about his conversation with Monitor until next season’s crossover - so we just have to fret about this for a whole year on top of everything else?

Look at it this way: if Oliver's fate never gets mentioned in the flash forwards, we'd be fretting about it anyway!

[tennisgurl]

Yeah, it does seem suspect that in Crisis, Barry and Kara both die, while here, they almost die, and Oliver does something and makes a deal to save them. They could even go meta and show a copy of the comic book itself, where they die originally. I mean,with Psycho Pirate around, meta seems inevitable. 

But if Oliver does die, even for a little bit, he better not be edited out of history. He better get monuments, long winded speeches, and LOTS of talk about how awesome of a hero he was! Of course, that could even lead to Maya, and Felicity having to raise her as a single mother. But, that hardly answers all our Maya questions, and is really just too depressing to contemplate.

[Chaser]

18 minutes ago, Mrs. de Winter said:

How depressing there is more than one of her.  And how unsurprising that they both suck. 

So what odds would you give me on Felicity getting pregnant this season in time to give birth around next year's crossover time when Oliver's number comes up? 

“Felicity my love, let’s make a baby. I want to expand our family.”

”Oh Oliver...”

”That way a piece of me will always be with you.”

..........”What the Fuck did you do?”

[Mellowyellow]

When does Felicity have to get pregnant for a crossover birth?

I doubt they would do it though, too many characters to juggle let alone a birth! 

[way2interested]

9 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Monitor plays a role in Crisis and they used Elseworlds to setup Crisis so perhaps the best way to look at Elseworlds is part 1 of a 2 part story?

It is what Marvel basically did already with Infinity War and Endgame, so sounds about right.

[Chaser]

Can you imagine Felicity telling Oliver she’s pregnant and Oliver trying to be happy with the knowledge he won’t be there for them?

[Mary0360]

22 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

When does Felicity have to get pregnant for a crossover birth?

I doubt they would do it though, too many characters to juggle let alone a birth! 

Well the crossover is late November early December, so she'd have to get pregnant in February/March- is that sweeps? 

[Angel12d]

6 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Can you imagine Felicity telling Oliver she’s pregnant and Oliver trying to be happy with the knowledge he won’t be there for them?

Excuse me, Maya isn’t their baby. Nope. I refuse. This hurts too much. 😩

[tennisgurl]

7 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Can you imagine Felicity telling Oliver she’s pregnant and Oliver trying to be happy with the knowledge he won’t be there for them?

NOT TODAY SATAN!

[apinknightmare]

14 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Can you imagine Felicity telling Oliver she’s pregnant and Oliver trying to be happy with the knowledge he won’t be there for them?

Gotta give him a reason to come up with a way to outsmart the whole system when his time comes!

[BkWurm1]

23 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Gotta give him a reason to come up with a way to outsmart the whole system when his time comes!

Then he really does need to tell Felicity.  Why let that big brain go to waste?

[insomniadreams88]

Imagine if we got to see Oliver and Felicity be their own team and working on this and no one else knowing. Come on, Arrow, give me that. 

[Soulfire]

[statsgirl]

This show can kill my happy buzz faster than anything else.  I was all happy after going to a Christmas concert with Ben Heppner, and I come home to this.  sob

2 hours ago, Chaser said:

I nominate Dinah, Rene, Curtis and Black Siren. 

I'm hoping that Diaz will take care of Curtis sooner than that.  But I'd like to offer Cisco in his place.

Cisco was the one who told Felicity that Iris intuited that "Barry" was not Barry and caused her to get depressed that she didn't see it herself with Oliver. I feel about Cisco the way many here feel about Curtis.

2 hours ago, Mrs. de Winter said:

I take this logic to a point - but Oliver still knows - so the pall is still there for me.  And it is going to be for at least a year.  Topped off with the stupid flash forwards that is a lot of suck for one season.  

They would be stupid to kill Oliver and stupid to have this pall hanging over the next year of the show but these writers are notorious for not being about to read the room.

TVLine on the next crossover tease:

Quote

The screen then cut to a title card that said “COMING FALL 2019… CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS,” as in the name of the super-famous DC Comics storyline in which the Anti-Monitor — The Monitor’s evil counterpart, who counts Psycho-Pirate among his main accomplices — is unleashed on the multiverse and begins to destroy the various Earths that it comprises.

The advanced reveal of next year’s crossover theme isn’t a complete surprise, since Arrowverse producers during recent press rounds had hinted that they already knew the plan for next fall.

[Chaser]

6 minutes ago, Soulfire said:

 

The way Dinah was swaying into that crime scene was comical.

Olicity going thru evidence together! Yay!

Emiko and Rene? Huh?

[lemotomato]

Just the 3 seconds of Dinah in that promo for 710 was too much Dinah. It seems like JH decided that "smug" is going to be her only expression and tone for the whole season.

[Chaser]

Well smug and smolder is all she has so...

[BkWurm1]

Could she be going for cheerful?  I just don't get it.  

[Mellowyellow]

Aww Olicity!

It would be very fitting of the title if Oliver told Felicity the deal he made but knowing these writers he'll forget until next crossover and act perfectly normal 😂

[bijoux]

Shut up, Dinah! It's really too bad that whoever took her screach (please be Oliver or Felicity, please be Oliver or Felicity) didn't also take away her speaking voice.

[Mellowyellow]

Is Felicity back in sexy outfits cuz hubby is out of jail?

Is it bad that I got a thrill from seeing them talk about evidence?

I am such an obsessed shipper!!!!!!!

[Angel12d]

That 710 promo. IDK what I expected but it wasn’t Oliver and Dinah walking into crime scenes together like he really is a cop. It’s weird he’s not wearing his GA costume. How long is this gonna last because I hate it.

I’m happy Felicity is somehow involved though. But seriously, I’m gonna need this Police Consultant thing to end and Oliver to get a new bunker. The last thing I want is to watch Oliver and Dinah scenes, especially if the latter is gonna be a smug asshole. 

Also are we supposed to think Rene has known Emiko for a while? I’m confused.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Angel12d

[Mary0360]

Seriously how can I go from basic indifference towards Dinah to OMFG why are you on my television screen in half a season? 

 

Maybe this is unfair to Juliana but I feel like she's basically a try hard. Her acting choices is like she's trying to hard to be funny or be tough or be the lead and all she does is come across slightly phony and unnatural as a result.  

[Morrigan2575]

JH really is a 2 note actors, smug and smolder. 

They really make stupid casting choices for their Birds. Even CL can't act but, at least they wrote Sara to CLs limited ability (wounded bird, action)

[Trisha]

Aw man, Olicity is still in that terrible new apartment. At least when they open up the chainlink curtains it’s brighter. 

[way2interested]

How is it that in looking at her DNA, Felicity can see it's a woman but not that she's related to Oliver (or at least that's how the show framed it with him and Thea)? Is that in the rest of the scene I guess?

[tv echo]

Argh!!! ...

Last night's crossover ep:
Oliver (to The Monitor): "I'm not who you need! You said I'd pass the test if I knew my true self. My true self is filled with darkness. But Barry and Kara are different. They inspire hope. They inspire people because they are the best of us. And if this test of yours is gonna kill our best chance at stopping this crisis, well, as gods go, you're not a very smart one."

ETA: I've added a transcription of Oliver's entire conversation with The Monitor to the Quotes thread.

But previously on Arrow....

Arrow Volume 2.5, Book 3:
Felicity (to Oliver): “Look, here’s the point I’m really trying to make – You’re a hero. Maybe you weren’t before. Caleb Green was right about who you were before the Queen’s Gambit went down. But since then, you’ve become someone else. You’ve become something else. And make no mistake, that something else… is a hero.  If you were the man Caleb Green says you are, do you think John and Roy would follow you into battle? If you were the man Caleb Green says you are, you wouldn’t have inspired a team. You wouldn’t have inspired me.  And all of us – including you – wouldn’t fight every single day to make this city a better place.  And you have to admit, it’s a pretty amazing city.”

320 (The Fallen): :
Felicity (to Oliver): "You have done so much. You have saved so many people's lives. And you have changed so many for the better. Including mine. Knowing you has changed my life. You... opened up my heart in a way I didn't even know was possible. I love you."

407 (Brotherhood):
Felicity (to Oliver): "Second, you didn't decide to run for mayor to take down Darhk. You did it to give the city something that the Green Arrow can't give them.  Hope. Inspiration. Don't lose sight of that."

409 (Dark Waters):
Laurel: "Oliver, we can take care of ourselves. And that's including Felicity. You inspired a lot of people."

423 (Schism):
Diggle (to Oliver): "Your speech inspired all of us, too."

423 (Schism):
Curtis: "We were this close to leaving Star City last October. After three terrorist attacks, we were done, but then the night before we were going to start packing, the Green Arrow popped up on our TV, and he reminded me that this city is worth saving, that my home -  that my home was worth fighting for. That guy gave me inspiration. He gave me hope. And if he could give me hope then, why can't he give it to others now?"

501 (Legacy):
Felicity: "They're already out there, Oliver. Because of you. Inspired by you."

507 (Vigilante):
Diggle: "Oliver, you saved this city 10 times over."

521 (Honor Thy Fathers):
Felicity (to Oliver): "Your father inspired you to save the city. And you did. At this point, who cares why? You're not a killer. The people you care about are not suffering because of you. Their life, my life, is better because you decided to become the Green Arrow. Well, whenever you decide to become the Green Arrow again."

Edited December 12, 2018 by tv echo