Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[tessaray]

I'm kind of bitter because parts of last night's show were very, very good.  I even liked Laurel dealing with Palmer (where did that come from and why haven't I seen that Laurel in 3 seasons?) and Deadshot, Diggle and Lyla were amazing.  Oliver and Felicity got to talk like adults (for a few minutes anyway).  Even the parts that were awful (that dumb ass flying suit and its smug inhabitant) were fairly well done - in the sense that Oliver got a tiny win after getting the crap kicked out of him.  Someone needs to get Stephen Amell his own show...  Oh, wait... (sorry, couldn't resist)

 

ETA:  I missed the first 10 -15 minutes, so obviously didn't get the full Ray Palmer impact. 

Edited March 26, 2015 by tessaray

[kismet]

On reflection, the worst thing about last nights episode? I actually enjoyed last weeks episode, and I had just a sliver of hope that this season was getting back on track. Now? That hope has died. 

I feel like my hope was like Roy this episode, kinda excited then agreeing it was reckless and then getting electrocuted and left to lie there in the gutter until gosh knows when.... Am I dead, unconscious, breathing... who knows... Frankly I wonder if Arrow producers even care anymore about us anymore.

[kismet]

I'm bitter because the only way I can see them fixing this is for team arrow to spin off on to their own show. It could be on the CW and they could call it Arrow. Oh, wait...

I caught up on the Flash last night after Arrow, and I was thinking Oliver, Barry, Joe West, Diggle, Quentin should just go and star on their own show and leave a lot of the CW bullshit behind. They can have their own justice/detective league. Cisco can make some guest appearances to help with equipment, but yea Im ready for them to start having some fun together. Funny, up until last night I always imagined Felicity being on the show, but only if she is nothing like what she was for last night or a few episodes this season. She's on a conditional visa & for that I am eternally bitter to the writers.

[Shanna]

I'm bitter because the only way I can see them fixing this is for team arrow to spin off on to their own show. It could be on the CW and they could call it Arrow. Oh, wait...

Hey! That sounds like a great idea ;)

I know you mean Bitter and not Butter, but from now on I'm using butter. LOL

Well ray does love his bulletproof coffee so I totally meant to do that.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Shanna

[AyChihuahua]

Too bad it's not Pinkeyeproof Coffee.

[wonderwall]

Felicity, yeah...might be best to wait for the season to be over so she can have a fresh start next season.  I think this show and several of its characters could really benefit from putting some of these storylines behind them.

 

Definitely get her away from being the roving superhero love interest and let her develop her own REAL storylines.

 

This is exactly where I'm at with this season. Not just for Felicity but for Diggle and Oliver as well who have all suffered due to plot/propping this season.

[benteen]

This is exactly where I'm at with this season. Not just for Felicity but for Diggle and Oliver as well who have all suffered due to plot/propping this season.

 

Plot propping and piling onto existing messy storylines.  Not to mention writers who change their personalities week after week in order to fit the story instead of trying to fit a story around the characters that the three of them actually are.

[Duke Silver]

Gotta admit, I'm a bit bitter that TPTB are being rewarded w/ steady ratings whilst serving up this dreck to us.  I guess viewers have more or less spoken: the trainwreck of charaterization is just fine.  <sigh>  I wanted to see this show through to the end, but I just can't, not if the viewers are going to enable the showrunners to keep pumping out this substandard stuff.

[MostlyC]

I know you mean Bitter and not Butter, but from now on I'm using butter.

 

 

Ha!  I feel like I should change the title here:  "Toasted:  Welcome to the Butterness Thread"

[wonderwall]

Ha!  I feel like I should change the title here:  "Toasted:  Welcome to the Butterness Thread"

omfg I know you're joking, but can you please do that? :p

[Chaser]

I'm putting this in the butter thread to be safe. MG is back on tumblr unconcerned about the backlash of Ray; People just don't like him because he is Felicity's love interest over Oliver. Yes. That's it. It can't be for any reason but that. It can't be because he is a douche in a can of mayonnaise. 

[Password]

Not surprised. He's never admitted to Ray's inappropriateness, why start now?

[NumberCruncher]

I'm putting this in the butter thread to be safe. MG is back on tumblr unconcerned about the backlash of Ray; People just don't like him because he is Felicity's love interest over Oliver. Yes. That's it. It can't be for any reason but that. It can't be because he is a douche in a can of mayonnaise. 

 

Good Lord, someone needs to take the Tumblr away--this man is insufferable.  Every legitimate criticism is brushed away because of people are too blinded by their shipping love.  Could he possibly be any more condescending?  How about this, Guggenheim: I'm to the point that you've fucked up Olicity so much that I find myself not really caring all that much whether they get together this season (and even perhaps the next) and yet I still despise Ray.  Why do I reject your precious character?  Because he's a smug-ass know-it-all who displays misogynistic tendencies and also has serious boundary issues.

[kismet]

That was the one thing I was not bitter

 

 

Good Lord, someone needs to take the Tumblr away--this man is insufferable.  Every legitimate criticism is brushed away because of people are too blinded by their shipping love.  Could he possibly be any more condescending?  How about this, Guggenheim: I'm to the point that you've fucked up Olicity so much that I find myself not really caring all that much whether they get together this season (and even perhaps the next) and yet I still despise Ray.  Why do I reject your precious character?  Because he's a smug-ass know-it-all who displays misogynistic tendencies and also has serious boundary issues.

That was one of the positive parts of 317. I could openly dislike Ray because for once he was a true douchebag. I mean really there was no hiding it this episode, he was just obnoxious. First his ability to completely chuck Felicity aside just because she didn't tell him another friend's secret. Newsflash buddy, she also kept your secret. So get over it, I thought you wanted a partner. Rule #1 to partnership, you listen to your partner and talk out your issues. You don't just diminish everything she says because she is a female and her judgment is "clouded". Then when Oliver comes and tries to explain his situation, again cockiness & rudeness to completely disregard anything he said. I mean it was just so easy to dislike him. He was no longer perfect, so that made a little of the bitterness disappear. Of course then I was wicked bitter that he sucked up so much air time, when the episode had so much more they could have done with the time. But I guess there is good butter and bad butter.

[Morrigan2575]

Ha!  I feel like I should change the title here:  "Toasted:  Welcome to the Butterness Thread"

You totally should, that would at least give people a moment of happiness and humor before they remembered all the reasons why they're bitter.

[KirkB]

I've decided the apathy I used to feel for Laurel (which has grown into a mild hateness) is now being applied to the show at large. I no longer feel really bitter about anything because I just don't care enough anymore to be that bothered. However, I could agree to a buttery feeling.

[Pyramid]

I feel vaguely bitter that Deadshot has had the same number of flashbacks as Felicity. I guess Felicity flashbacks don't impact on Ray's story.

[tennisgurl]

I feel really weird about the fact that Deadshot, the hired assassin, seemed like more of a believable hero last in the last episode than Ray did. And Deadshot is the one who died? 

[chaos is welcome]

I am bitter that I watched the Offer tonight and laughed maniacly during pretty much everything but the Olicity and roy/thea scenes because everything was SO RIDICULOUS. Laurel as canary was ridiculous, oliver making merlyn sleep on Thea's couch was ridiculous. MAYBE I SHOULD BE RAS AL GHUL = ridiculous

[Free]

I've decided the apathy I used to feel for Laurel (which has grown into a mild hateness) is now being applied to the show at large. I no longer feel really bitter about anything because I just don't care enough anymore to be that bothered. However, I could agree to a buttery feeling.

 

IA and it's not just Laurel, it's just not an enjoyable show anymore, the team dynamics used to be this show's highlight and now we're just getting a jumbled mess of characters and storylines.

 

I feel really weird about the fact that Deadshot, the hired assassin, seemed like more of a believable hero last in the last episode than Ray did. And Deadshot is the one who died?

 

Exactly and I feel the same way about Ray and Laurel.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Free

[catrox14]

You know... I've been bitter towards Guggenheim but maybe that's not entirely fair. I mean maybe he's just not equipped to be the day to day showrunner and is in over his head. Maybe the Lions share of bitter should be towards Kriesberg for leaving Arrow in the hands of Guggenheim so he could direct his attention to the Flash. I am really actually starting to resent the Flash because the resources and care shown Arrow before are now directed to the Flash. Damn you Barry Allen.

[apinknightmare]

The Flash is starting to go off the rails too IMO. Maybe separating the original team was a bad idea.

Edited March 29, 2015 by apinknightmare

[catrox14]

The Flash is starting to go off the rails too IMO. Maybe separating the original team was a bad idea.

 

 

 

Oohhh.  Can we blame all of this on Ray Palmer?  Since he is now the object of their affection over even Barry Allen?  Yes.  I'm directing any and all bitterness towards Phony Stark and his shitty less-than-super-electrocution-suit.

Edited March 29, 2015 by catrox14

[kismet]

The Flash is starting to go off the rails too IMO. Maybe separating the original team was a bad idea.

Yea it sorta feels like it. I think they were good counterbalances to each other. I miss Greg Berlanti's influence as well. Characters have always been big part of Berlanti's work, I'm bitter when I think of what s3 might have been with GB helping write the characters.

[Carrie Ann]

I agree that if the problems with the show can be traced back to the showrunners splitting off, then Berlanti's absence is probably the biggest factor--at least in terms of the overall feeling of the show--the dourness and inconsistent characterization and weakened relationships. But maybe even if AK and MG were left to run the show together, having the other person there to review everything and give another opinion or perspective would have helped. I know AK is technically still involved with Arrow, but it seems pretty clear his role is minimal.

[catrox14]

I've been rewatching s1...:(.  It hurts my soul more than I realized how much the show has truly gone off the rails.

 

Watching Felicity telling Walter how she is the most valuable member of the technical division with just the right amount of spunk and snark......and then the bullshit reduction of her in s3 to propping Ray and Laurel...is just ....infuriating. Ugh :(.  

 

And I tried to find something to like about Laurel but her very first scene set my teeth on edge.  She never even asked her coworkers to not watch the news about Oliver that was on the screen like all of 30 seconds. She picks up the remote and turns it off and then gives the lot of them the stinkeye as though they had been sitting there for hours doing something TO HER by watching it for all of 30 seconds.  Anyway, I'm really bitter that all the cleverness and surprise and originality of s1 and half of s2 is....pffft...just gone...like Oliver running away from Diggle and Rob in s1.....

 

sigh

Edited March 29, 2015 by catrox14

[KittenPokerCheater]

Hee!  Do we get McG on toast with our Butter?

[wonderwall]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!! AHAHA THEY CHANGED THE NAME :'D Thank you mods!

[Carrie Ann]

OMG, Mods, I love you. This thread title makes me somehow feel less "butter" about the show!

 

 

Edited because it's now Butter, not bitter!

[Chaser]

Butterness! I feel I played a part in this and it makes me really happy. LOL

[MostlyC]

Posts that say "Bitter" instead of "Butter" will be edited without mercy.  And you might have to eat dry toast for breakfast and go to bed without dessert.

 

Don't Say I didn't warn you....

 

;)

[TanyaKay]

As long as it is not the butter that Brandon Routh is selling ...

[blixie]

Hee fantastic Butter never tasted so good!

[chaos is welcome]

Oh, butternes thread. I died. Ray can toast our bread with his electrical pulses. That cgi was THE WORST. I could not keep a straight face.

[catrox14]

I can't believe it's not butter

[Chaser]

I can't believe it's not butter

Everytime we are surprised by a good episode…..I can't believe it's not butter 

[BkWurm1]

I'm "butter that it's butter. Butter is lovely. Butter makes everything better. "Butter"is not Butter.  :(

 

 

 

edited because it's butter.  Dry toast for you!

Edited March 30, 2015 by MostlyC

[tennisgurl]

I so deeply love that this is the thing that is happening. All of my butterness is now so cool and creamy. Not the jagged anger that it was before. 

 

Now when I start getting angry about the complete crap fest that ia happening on what was once one of my top shows, I will just think of homemade butter. Apple butter. Mmmmmm now its all better...

Edited March 30, 2015 by tennisgurl

[kismet]

So is the butterness melting away our "butternessi???" I will take that any day. My Grandma always said the way to make a tasty dinner is to never remove butter from the table.

 

 

 What is this strange word you call "bitterness."   Everyone knows that it's Butter (at least for now)

[catrox14]

I dunno. This smacks of cholesterolist shenanigans!

[Morrigan2575]

Love the new title.

[Shanna]

Who knew a typo could be so much fun!

[romantic idiot]

I love you, Mods. 

 

Makes me feel less "butter" and more butter. (That could just be the toast I just had though). 

[BkWurm1]

I'm "butter that it's butter. Butter is lovely. Butter makes everything better. "Butter"is not Butter.  :(

 

 

 

edited because it's butter.  Dry toast for you!

I was going to suggest a list of synonyms but suddenly feared "maddened" might be made into margarine, "cranky" might become canola, and "lame" was looking at lard.  Beware the slippery slope - made more slippery by a greasy coating of butter. 

[writersblock51]

Great new title - I haven't been on the boards in many weeks, life & all and then "last episode happened" and ... well, my toast is buttered on both sides, I'm that ticked off.

[ohjoy]

I actually hadn't been in this thread in months because I was so cheesed off at S3 developments I didn't think the extra butter would be good for my heart. But this butter -- oh my. Must be whipped, it's so lighthearted. Sucked me right in.

 

 

 

Cheesed?  I see what you did there.  Hee!  Toast with butter for you!

[Ang]

Mmm, butter. Associating it with "butterness" isn't working for me, though, because now I'm thinking about that horrible scene I've heard about but never seen from, I think, Last Tango in Paris. Not to be crude, but it kind of seems appropriate given what the show has been doing to fans this season.

 

One of the reasons I got into this show is the online community, and so I think it's a little ironic, perhaps, that the multi-media approach to Arrow is one of the things I hate most about it. Without the relationship development that they're apparently showing in the 2.5 comics, the emphasis on Olicity Angst this season is over-the-top melodramatic slop. What do they think of the fans that they're taking this approach? It's cynical, greedy, and more than a little condescending that they're pandering to a specific segment of their audience while also trying to take extra financial advantage of them. 

 

On the other side of the coin, though, Ray Palmer would have been a more interesting character without all the online chatter. If I hadn't known he was headed for herodom and his own show, his character would have come across completely differently. There's major dissonance between what I assume they're showing me based on online information and what I'm actually seeing on the screen. What I've seen is a guy who sometimes seems super shady, sometimes seems kind of nice, and as of this last episode, seems untrustworthy, to borrow their buzz word for the last episode. If I hadn't read what I had about Ray, I'm pretty sure I'd be assuming they were setting him up to be a big bad. I would be seriously worried about Felicity getting this close to him.

 

This has been a fun pastime for a while, but I think I'm coming to the end of it.

 

 

It's butter!  You're going to be without dessert young person!

[tv echo]

I'm butter that this show doesn't seem to be getting better and that I'm just getting more "butter" as I watch it.  Honestly, at this point, I don't why I botter.

 

ETA:  Butter!  Dry Toast for you!

[chaos is welcome]

butter better "butter."

Bippity boppity booo!

:-)

 

I was thinking how most of us assumed laurel would be the worst thing about this season. Oh how wrong we were.  Sigh.

 

 

Sigh.  Butter.  Does no one read the name of this thread?  Le Sigh.  You're going to get Dry toast too, young jedi!

[Menrva]

butter better "butter".

Bippity boppity booo!

:-)

 

I was thinking how most of us assumed laurel would be the worst thing about this season. Oh how wrong we were.  Sigh.

And if anyone says "At least it can't get any worse", you know there are always new depths of horrendous MG and the writers will enthusiastically and pigheadedly plunge to.

At least I have matzah and butter to look forward to next week…

 

 

Butter and Mazah are tasty!

Edited March 31, 2015 by MostlyC