Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[patchwork]

I'm becoming very bitter about how this season is playing out and I'm pretty sure it's only going to get worse. 

 

Merlyn turning Thea into his personal assassin has huge potential in terms of storytelling but it fundamentally fails when his big plan is to get Oliver to fight Ra. Ra's is a master swordsman so why is Merlyn sending an archer to kill him in a sword fight? Sure Oliver can use other weapons but his specialisation is in bows and arrows. If this 'only the student can defeat the teacher' nonsense is supposed to be true then surely the better plan is to train up Thea and have her challenge Ra, set-up the leagues rules so that even if she loses Ra's will no longer pursue Merlyn. An honour duel or something. 

 

I hate that Sara dies to drive Laurel's BC destiny forward but okay let's go with that, why can't her death be heroic? Say that for months she's been bring them down from the inside, quietly ruining the LOA's reputation but in the season opener she gets found out. Using the same honour technicality Thea/Merlyn will use later she duels Ra and loses. She dies but in a way that means the League wont go after her family in retaliation. 

 

I honestly have no interest in Laurel but rather than her putting on the mask being all about anger and revenge she does it to carry on the work Sara started -Laurel can't take down the LOA but she can go after the people who employ them. Sara could send her a info packet with a heartbreaking video she pre-dated to be sent to Laurel if she doesn't delete it within a certain timeframe. As eye rolling as it would be I'd rather they revealed Laurel stepped up her gym time since Slade's takeover attempt and post Sara's death she starts taking private lessons from Wildcat. She's not Black Canary but it's step toward masked vigilantism. 

Edited February 25, 2015 by patchwork

[doesntworkonwood]

You know what I'm angry about? Oliver and Felicity have always been open with each other. They've never felt the need to hide anything from each other, and that was the reason that their relationship appealed to me so much. Oliver has always been comfortable telling Felicity how he feels about her, and how important she is to him, and it's been apparent that Felicity takes a lot of comfort from that. 

 

But now? They're stuck having half conversations and nothing is ever really resolved. Their conversations are what allowed us to see both of their points of view, and now we don't which has left a significant part of the audience confused and upset with Felicity's actions.

 

And the worst part? We could still have had a bunch of angst, even with an open relationship with a ton of communication between both sides. Oliver and Felicity would have had problems between the two of them. Felicity's problems with abandonment would mean that she obviously wouldn't be ready to jump into a relationship with Oliver, especially after he 'died'. Oliver still has problems with his need to blame himself for everything that ever happens. An understanding between two of them doesn't mean that they would get into a relationship, and we wouldn't get the manufactured angst that they tried in the first half of the season, and we'd have a much better understanding of both characters motivations wrt Malcolm now. 

 

But of course, if Felicity and Oliver were open with each other, Felicity wouldn't be so isolated and there would be no reason for Ray to spend so much time comforting her. And then they couldn't have their fun playing with another superhero whilst ruining other characters. 

[Kymmi]

I'm going to watch tonight, but I think it's time for me to step back.  I was so high on this show over the summer, and maybe the increased scrutiny I've given it (reading spoilers, reading fanfic, obsessing about details) is what is ruining it for me.  Or maybe the show is taking a turn I don't want it to take.  I only know that the excitement I felt leading up to an episode is now filled with dread.  Spoilers give me anxiety, and while they aren't often as bad as they sound, I'm very rarely pleasantly surprised.  There have been bright spots in the season, but perhaps this a show I need to turn into a binge show and wait for the season to end before I watch.  I will watch any of the crossovers with the Flash, as those have typically been treated well.  I've taken to only wanting to post in the Bitterness thread, and that's not quite right.  Right now there's more on the show that I'm bitter about than happy about, and that doesn't sound like something I should be devoting this much time to.  My husband already thinks I'm mental when I queue this up on the TiVo since I spend so much time lamenting what could be or should be or how much I hate a particular story line.

 

I will say this for the writer's.  Going into this season I couldn't imagine disliking any character more than Laurel Lance.  It turns out she's not even my #1 complaint this season, so I guess they made progress there.  LOL

[wonderwall]

So I saw this post and completely agree with it:

 

Sigh. I don’t know where to begin. You guys know all I want in a TV show is good and consistent writing which makes sense. We haven’t had that. I think the biggest problem here is that they have a lot of ideas, but literally have no clue how to execute them.

 

We’ve seen main characters get thrown under the bus — in Sara’s case, die — to prop up other characters. Felicity is being used to usher in Ray into the Arrow universe. Digg was sidelined for no reason while Laurel was getting her ass kicked — tbh, he’s been sidelined this whole season. Thea has been used as a plot point for Malcolm’s storyline, and Quentin is being used as a tool to fuel Laurel’s arc. What happened to not knocking off characters to accommodate others? And the worst part? There are so many other alternatives to tell the same story WITHOUT tearing other characters down. More importantly, it’s possible to tell the same story WITHOUT blatantly “killing” off a main character to make room for others. Like damn, how obvious can the writers be? Arrow’s strength comes from it’s characterizations, and to see main characters treated like this boggles my mind.
 

Give me Original Team Arrow back!

Then, there’s a large amount of inconsistency going on here, mainly due to the characters being OOC with no explanation as to WHY they’re saying / doing those things. Like, you can have a character make mistakes and say something off, but it needs to make sense within what’s been established. Digg can stay back in the foundry and let Laurel go out in the field if he and Laurel talk, and he decides she needs a chance.  Even so, if you know someone is a liability out in the field, there HAS to be a bigger reason why Digg — the most qualified fighter between Laurel and Roy — is letting them go. Instead, we had to get behind it with no explanation and watch Digg sit in the foundry for no reason. It doesn’t add up, considering Digg fought so hard against Oliver’s wishes and STILL came back even though Oliver said no. At least let him go home and play peek-a-boo with Baby Sara. And that’s just one example. (Y’all know how I feel about Laurel’s BC arc.)
 

As for the flashbacks, there’s no continuity compared to S1 and S2. The unique thing about those flashbacks is that Oliver’s decisions impacted what was happening in the present. Now, it seems like the flashbacks are going off on their own tangent to create a separate storyline best suited for next season, and it doesn’t really relate to what’s happening now. There isn’t a connective thread between the two, so now the flashbacks are tedious and only provide glimmers of interesting information.

Also, the show seems to be going back and forth between two bad guys — Malcolm and Ra’s. We’re told Ra’s is the big bad, but all evidence points towards Malcolm. The season isn’t over so I can’t really make any assumptions, but we were led to believe Ra’s would really twist Oliver and his ideologies, but I haven’t seen anything of that sort coming from Ra’s. It’s coming from Malcolm.
 

Likewise, there’s a lack of surprise going on here. Not to say Arrow doesn’t have great cliffhangers and such, but it’s like the writers laid out their cards in the first three episodes of the season and trying to add more to keep up the interest.

And may I add, I don’t really see any payoffs happening here. Oliver died, and he comes back wanting the same thing again? What made Bruce’s return in TDKR was how he learned to fear again, and that fear propelled him to save his city and shed his Batman persona. Oliver? It didn’t really do much. He still has a death wish. So unfortunately, his “death” was a tool to give room for other characters, not so Oliver can grow from his experiences. Why would any writers choose to do that? Where’s the payoff? What’s this going to do for him? What are the consequences here? 
 

I’m sure there’s more to this, but at the end of the day the writers have ideas and somehow forgot how to write. There are huge gaps, and I feel like they’re rushing everything — why, I don’t know. Ironically, I feel they’ve done a fantastic job for Olicity’s arc, so I don’t know why everything else is falling short. There’s a lot of inconsistent writing (why in the world would Laurel tell Thea Sara’s dead when you haven’t even told your dad?), and it pains me to see main characters treated like this. I’ve dropped shows over smaller things than this, but I’m still hoping Arrow can bounce back. Until then, I’m not a happy camper.

 

Source

Edited February 26, 2015 by wonderwall

[Actionmage]

(My 3rd try at replying about the "Nanda Parbat" episode)

 

This is not what I signed up for.

I did not sign up for Batman Lite. I did not sign up for Nolan Lite. I also did not sign up for the core three to not really interact like the characters they have been for two entire seasons.

I will always be a Stephen Amell "girl"; he was looking very nice in the episode. David Ramsey was also looking very nice also, but then don't they both pretty much do? (Excepting that inane picture of Oliver and Robert last week! *g*)

I loved Felicity's red dress. I may have to  actually find it !

Nyssa, Roy, Lyla, Little Sara, Maseo, Tatsu, and Aiko are wonderful additions that I would like to continue seeing them.

For me, Felicity is bullet-proof in that I have two seasons of her being in-character. They can't take that away from me, no matter how hard they are trying. It comes from me being one of the comic-book fans they are trying to keep watching.

I missed Quentin. Laurel got the "what the boards are saying " lines this week.

I'm hanging in, but barely.  I want to love this show again, with no reservations or qualifiers.

[tennisgurl]

I just...why? Why do the writers want to upset their fans? Especially writers like the Arrow writers, who know exactly what fans and critics are saying about the show, WHY are they screwing with all the things people liked about this show?

 

You love Sara? Well, she`s dead now.

You love Dig? His screen-time is severely reduced.

You love Olicity? Too bad, it falls apart, and Felicity hooks up with Ray. 

You love funny quips and action? Here is lots of moping and plot boredom. 

 

Its not like they have to do everything that fans and critics want them to do...but if you are doing things in your story you know people will hate, do it for a REASON! Don`t pump up characters that no one likes, while excluding or getting rid of characters that people do like, just because it gets people talking, or your playing favorites. Have a purpose, and, even if people are upset, they`ll understand why you did it. But now...who freaking knows. The powers that be just like reading angry tweets I guess. 

[loki567]

A pretty big characteristic of bad writing is that you need to slap your audience in the face with drama, drama, and more drama. I always start preparing for disappointment when any television writers say something to the effect of, "Our job is to make our characters miserable," which Guggenheim has made those type of comments. While it's true that drama is the lifeblood of a dramatic show, if it ever gets to the point where it overwhelms the characters and makes everything just an absolute slog to get through, that's when the show starts to really suffer like Arrow has done. Life isn't 100% misery, I don't know why writers think they need their show to be that. Why did Felicity become the biggest fan-favorite character in the first place? Because she was the funniest and lightest character and the audience naturally gravitated to that. Same with Diggle.  Sara didn't catch on because of a horrible backstory, she caught on because she was trying to put the pieces together AFTER all the terrible things have happened. That's a story the audience can get behind. 

 

Right now, these characters don't feel like well-rounded human beings, they feel like misery-magnets. Why should I care about any of them if I don't enjoy spending time with them? 

Edited February 26, 2015 by loki567

[rainydawn]

I've been reading Marc's Guggenheim tweets and replies on tumblr and it's unbelivable. He enjoy pissing off fans and when people ask legit questions or voice concern, he mocks them.

Edited February 26, 2015 by rainydawn

[lemotomato]

I just...why? Why do the writers want to upset their fans? Especially writers like the Arrow writers, who know exactly what fans and critics are saying about the show, WHY are they screwing with all the things people liked about this show?

 

You love Sara? Well, she`s dead now.

You love Dig? His screen-time is severely reduced.

You love Olicity? Too bad, it falls apart, and Felicity hooks up with Ray. 

You love funny quips and action? Here is lots of moping and plot boredom. 

 

Its not like they have to do everything that fans and critics want them to do...but if you are doing things in your story you know people will hate, do it for a REASON! Don`t pump up characters that no one likes, while excluding or getting rid of characters that people do like, just because it gets people talking, or your playing favorites. Have a purpose, and, even if people are upset, they`ll understand why you did it. But now...who freaking knows. The powers that be just like reading angry tweets I guess. 

All the things you listed was everything I loved about the show, and it's all gone. After tonight's round of character assassinating stupidity and bad decisions, I can't even root for Oliver, Diggle, or Felicity as individuals. I wish I could ditch everything about the show completely, but I keep getting drawn back, like morbid curiosity about a particularly grisly car wreck.

[kes0704]

This is my first time posting but I just have to say how disappointed, and quickly heading into bitterness territory, I am with the show this season. I can't view the show live but I used to rush home from work as soon as I could to watch the episode because I loved the show, the characters and their stories.

Now, I don't bother. Days can go by before I watch and when I do watch it's with a sense of dread rather than excitement. Why are so many of the characters becoming so unlikeable? Why does it have to be so damn depressing? Why does it have to be so illogical? Why, oh why, do I have to sit through a love triangle?

I only have a small amount of time to watch TV and I don't want to spend that time with a show I dread and with characters I'm indifferent to or hate. I get that a show has to evolve and change over time, really I do, but did it have to change into this? I've stopped watching shows from boredom before but never because I veered into hate-watching territory.

Oliver - Why has this smart and strategic man been making such dumb decisions about anything and everything. He's really trying to redeem a mass murderer? Oliver is probably the only character that I am still somewhat invested in but that has more to do with SA than with anything the writers are doing.

Felicity - I'm deeply bitter that the writing has sucked the life out of all the good feelings I had about this character. Why is it necessary for her to become so intolerant and mean to Oliver? At this point in time I want Oliver to ditch her from the team - he doesn't need the hassle, he's dealing with enough - especially if the writers are going to try and have her sell me on how much of a better person Ray is - uh, no he's not - I find him to be creepy and inappropriate.

Ray - I can't even believe that they are actually trying to compare Ray, who's only in-story traumatic event is a dead fiancée, who I don't know and don't care about, with Oliver. The same Oliver who has been shipwrecked, tortured, watched as his father shot himself and his mother was murdered, was stabbed and kicked off a mountain and seemingly DIED. If the EPs are trying to get me to believe that Ray is the superior vigilante/person based on the in-show narrative then I'm afraid they've failed.

Laurel - What can I say that hasn't already been said more eloquently by others on this forum. For me, she has always been the most unlikeable character but I must say she's rapidly gaining competition in the "most unlikeable character" stakes.

I could go on but I've run out of energy to rant anymore about this show.

I've never felt the need to fast forward through an episode before but lately I watch with my finger firmly on the FF button and the majority of the episodes this season I can't even bring myself to re-watch. I really feel like I've been duped based on all the pre-season hype and I'm pretty sure it's not healthy to get this irritated by a TV show.

[Ariah]

Bitter confessions:

 

I'd like to quit the show now, but I also want to read and write snark after each episode. I cannot do both and I'm utterly bitter.

 

(I'd also like to write to CW executives and tell them they should send Guggenheim packing because of his inability to be positive to the fans on social media)

[Duke Silver]

I will never again consume any media item with which MG is more than incidentally connected.  Screw that guy.

 

I stupidly watched late last night (I had planned on MAYBE binge watching over the summer).  There are just far too few moments during each episode when I feel like I still like this show.

[dtissagirl]

Confession: I haven't even watched 314 yet, much less 315. Just thinking about watching them gives me dread. I might actually have quit this show without even planning on it?

I guess I'll see how this hiatus goes, and if I find myself wanting to catch up before 316. Forever bitter that right now, I *don't want* to catch up. I don't even wanna read fic, which is my ~solace when TV shows get dumb, that's how mad I am. SIGH.

[Belinea]

I've been reading Marc's Guggenheim tweets and replies on tumblr and it's unbelivable. He enjoy pissing off fans and when people ask legit questions or voice concern, he mocks them.

 

I don't even understand why he does it. I am considering joining Tumblr to write him a polite response to his responses and how he managed to kind of kill my enthusiasm. Not that he cares.

 

I mean, I can handle Laurel. It is not as horrible as I thought. I kind of hate the MM storyline. It is just somewhat stupid. But what pains me the most is the O/F relationship. I was so pumped for it and now I just don't feel it anymore. It is like they found the perfect way to kill the lightning in a bottle. So, does she love Oliver. The answer to me is no. She doesn't love Oliver and not because she got with Ray. I just don't feel it anymore in all their interaction. I never thought that would happen and it kind of gives me heartburn. I am not even excited for them finding their way back to each other. Even if they do, why should one still be around after all this horrible storytelling. Yes, I know I am not making a lot of sense but I think I will tune it at some point during the big hiatus. Because I have no interest in many things anymore. It is sad.

[Morrigan2575]

Confession: I haven't even watched 314 yet, much less 315. Just thinking about watching them gives me dread. I might actually have quit this show without even planning on it?

I guess I'll see how this hiatus goes, and if I find myself wanting to catch up before 316. Forever bitter that right now, I *don't want* to catch up. I don't even wanna read fic, which is my ~solace when TV shows get dumb, that's how mad I am. SIGH.

That's generally my path to leaving a show, first I can't wait to watch, then I watch but slowly start to pay attention to other things (games, internet).  Then i let the show go to DVR but watch later that day or the very next day.  Next stage, show is on the DVR for a full week and I have to force myself to watch it before the next episode, followed by the show building up on the DVR for weeks before i finally sit down and marathon the episodes FF through most of it to get to scenes I'm interested. The Final 2 phases,  I just start deleting the episodes off the DVR without watching them and finally, it's removed from the DVR altogether.

[wonderwall]

Confession: I haven't even watched 314 yet, much less 315. Just thinking about watching them gives me dread. I might actually have quit this show without even planning on it?

I guess I'll see how this hiatus goes, and if I find myself wanting to catch up before 316. Forever bitter that right now, I *don't want* to catch up. I don't even wanna read fic, which is my ~solace when TV shows get dumb, that's how mad I am. SIGH.

 

I almost quit, but then I decided (because I'm a masochist) to watch this episode online, I legit skipped through most of the episode. The writers aren't even trying anymore. They literally had to rip off Batman with that ridiculous twist at the end that's how lazy the writers have become. Not only that, they're failing almost every aspect of the show. Team Arrow, Thea (who now apparently has a death wish), Oliver's being made stupid, Ra's is not intimidating at all and just a useless villain, the Malcolm redemption is shit, Ray and his entire non-entity being, Felicity being reduced to a cheerleader whose only personal drive is to be romantically involved with someone, Diggle who has been sidelined all throughout this season, Laurel and her shitty arc that still makes no sense to me whatsoever (I mean seriously what's her motivation and why does she always wander into the Arrow Cave like she's a part of the team when she specifically states she doesn't want to be a part of the team?), Sara and god I don't even want to talk about it... 

 

It's like the writers are making things up as they go and it shows. Arrow isn't even about The Arrow anymore and it's just so terrible. The show lost its purpose, what it was meant to be about. This show is meant to be about Oliver who struggles to overcome his 5 years of torture in order to become the hero he was destined to be, a man who protects and saves his city. 

 

This season isn't even about Oliver protecting the city anymore and that's just total BS and goes against the entire premise of the show. And now they're making Oliver into an idiot. Oliver has regressed so much this season and his identity crisis has been badly done that I don't even see it as a crisis but more as a regression... It's just terrible. 

 

I don't think I'll tune into anymore episodes. I may watch episode 18,21,22,23 online, but that's about it. I'll even stick around over the summer to see what season 4 will be about, but if I don't like what I hear, I'll probably never return to the show. And there are a few things that I would actually like to see... Oliver in the Bratva, Oliver being lighter/less gloomy (I don't even care if he's in a relationship with Felicity at this point), no Ray Palmer and Malcolm Merlyn, less Laurel, a clear arc for Diggle and Felicity which doesn't reduce them to being puppets, an interesting villain, and a better use for Quentin... That's all I ask for. I don't even think that's difficult to accomplish. 

 

I just want Arrow to stop being the springboard for new shows and new superheroes. IT'S NOT WHAT ARROW IS ABOUT. 

 

Okay, I'm done with my rant. 

[Danny Franks]

So from what I can tell, they're trying to tell too many different stories with 50 Shades (none of which seem to be working).

 

Firstly, they're trying to inject angst into Oliver/Felicity, and play up Oliver's bad decisionmaking against Ray doing everything that pleases Felicity. They've given Ray all of Oliver's traits but none of his flaws (he has the flaw of being a creepy stalker with no understanding of personal boundaries instead), played up those traits to Felicity, and have had her actively compare the two. So all of that is typical, 'girl is dating a guy when she really wants a different guy'. Your usual romantic melodrama pap, for which I have no time whatsoever.

 

But they're also using Felicity to force fans to see Ray as a viable, rootable character. If she likes him, he must be great, right? If she kisses him, he must be super great. And if she fucks him? Well, isn't he just triple awesome? She's been propping him up and calling for viewers to accept him all season. And then, slightly different, but the writers apparently want fans to invest in a potential Atom show, and are setting Ray up to be the hero of such a show, so they are asking fans to believe in him as a superhero, without much evidence that he's worked for it like the supposed hero of the show.

 

These stories are not compatible. You cannot present someone as a romantic mistake while also saying that viewers should like the guy because Felicity does. It's bound to just leave things in a confused, incoherent mess, with fans not knowing whether they're supposed to root for Ray as a potential hero, or boo him as a potential threat to Oliver/Felicity.

 

Now, if the real story (the one they can't admit to, for fear of fan reaction) is to force Felicity away from Oliver for good, potentially leaving them able to carry on the comic book fanfiction with him and Laurel, then I guess it makes more sense. Not good sense, because reducing Felicity's role and importance would seem to be really fucking dumb, when she's challenging Oliver for most popular character on the show.

[Sakura12]

Nothing I've read has made me want to come back to watching this show. I do check to see what everyone here thinks of it. Yesterday I forget it was even on. The sad thing is Arrow is turning me off The Flash because I see the beginnings of the same mistakes being made and new ones forming. They aren't writing for characters they are writing for shocking plot points. 

 

Sometimes these creators don't think in the long term. Just like with actors I like, I will follow writers/show creators I like to any new show they make. You won't see me seeking out a show by the Smallville creators (if they happen to involved with something I like, I consider it a fluke). If Joss Whedon or Bryan Fuller are behind a show, I will make time to check it out because I've liked everything they've done before and the characters they've created. That's not to say I will automatically like that show/movie but I will give them a chance. The Arrow writers are managing to turn me off two shows at the same time and making me know that I will not follow them to another. 

Edited February 26, 2015 by Sakura12

[KenyaJ]

That's generally my path to leaving a show, first I can't wait to watch, then I watch but slowly start to pay attention to other things (games, internet).  Then i let the show go to DVR but watch later that day or the very next day.  Next stage, show is on the DVR for a full week and I have to force myself to watch it before the next episode, followed by the show building up on the DVR for weeks before i finally sit down and marathon the episodes FF through most of it to get to scenes I'm interested. The Final 2 phases,  I just start deleting the episodes off the DVR without watching them and finally, it's removed from the DVR altogether.

 

I removed last night's episode from my DVR "to do" list about an hour before the show started. I knew I wasn't going to watch the episode and I didn't even want to see it in my recorded programs list later. There's really nothing I'm looking forward to, so I'm really tempted to delete the series from my recording list altogether. This past summer, I was literally counting down the days until the season premiere. I never could have guessed that 5 months later, I'd be on the verge of quitting the show altogether.

[Morrigan2575]

The sad thing is Arrow is turning me off The Flash because I see the beginnings of the same mistakes being made and new ones forming. They aren't writing for characters they are writing for shocking plot points.

 

That's actually true for me as well.  I honestly believe what's the point of getting into Flash if they're just going to screw it up in S2 or S3.  I took both Flash and Arrow off the DVR at the same time.  I'm still watching Flash but that's because I watch Supernatural.  I do wonder what will happen in March when SPN moves to Wednesday, I'll follow it over but won't watch Arrow...will I forget to tune into Flash?  Guess I'll find out in 3 weeks.

 

I've moved beyond Bitter with Arrow, I started losing interest in S2B when it appeared they sidelined Diggle and Felicity for Sara and the Lance Family Drama (and I loved Sara).  When Sara made it out of S2 alive, I thought for sure she'd be safe, she could come back to Arrow for occasional visits and even change her name to White Canary (rebirth in the LoA...doubt they'd give her Jade Canary).  So if Laurel had to become Black Canary at least they could have kept Sara alive.

 

I was suckered back into Arrow with the CL appearance at SDCC and all the Olicity pimping in 301.  I regret coming back to the show after S2 ended, I should have walked away when they did the magic jacket hand-off it would have been better then watching Sara die and reading/seeing the crap this show has turned into.

 

I've watched 4 episodes of S3 (301, 305, 307 and 308) and whats funny is that those episodes, where they actually focused on OG Team Arrow (even Roy works) worked really well...except 307 that wasn't a very good episode (IMO) but people seemed to like Cupid...I found her too cheesy.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[kismet]

So from what I can tell, they're trying to tell too many different stories with 50 Shades (none of which seem to be working).

 

Firstly, they're trying to inject angst into Oliver/Felicity, and play up Oliver's bad decisionmaking against Ray doing everything that pleases Felicity. They've given Ray all of Oliver's traits but none of his flaws (he has the flaw of being a creepy stalker with no understanding of personal boundaries instead), played up those traits to Felicity, and have had her actively compare the two. So all of that is typical, 'girl is dating a guy when she really wants a different guy'. Your usual romantic melodrama pap, for which I have no time whatsoever.

 

But they're also using Felicity to force fans to see Ray as a viable, rootable character. If she likes him, he must be great, right? If she kisses him, he must be super great. And if she fucks him? Well, isn't he just triple awesome? She's been propping him up and calling for viewers to accept him all season. And then, slightly different, but the writers apparently want fans to invest in a potential Atom show, and are setting Ray up to be the hero of such a show, so they are asking fans to believe in him as a superhero, without much evidence that he's worked for it like the supposed hero of the show.

 

These stories are not compatible. You cannot present someone as a romantic mistake while also saying that viewers should like the guy because Felicity does. It's bound to just leave things in a confused, incoherent mess, with fans not knowing whether they're supposed to root for Ray as a potential hero, or boo him as a potential threat to Oliver/Felicity.

 

Now, if the real story (the one they can't admit to, for fear of fan reaction) is to force Felicity away from Oliver for good, potentially leaving them able to carry on the comic book fanfiction with him and Laurel, then I guess it makes more sense. Not good sense, because reducing Felicity's role and importance would seem to be really fucking dumb, when she's challenging Oliver for most popular character on the show.

Its baffling to me what their intentions are with Ray & ATOM... Its almost like they are so jealous of all the cool stuff the Flash gets to do, that they wanted a shiny new toy they can CGI cool. So they brought ATOM in, but he really does seem out of place in Arrow land.

 

Its also confusing to me that they say they are not using Felicity to prop him and she will remain on Arrow on S4, when all current plots are pulling her further from Arrow and towards ATOM. I can only speak for myself, but if their plan is to move Felicity as an incentive to watch ATOM spin-off, it wont work for me - esp considering the what they do to Felicity's character when she is around Ray. Its just not what I would make time to watch.

 

Now, like you said if their real purpose was to put a permanent anvil on Olicity, what was the point of hyping it and doing all their humanity/light analogies? But it does make sense that this is one of the 1st bricks that they laid that could possibly lead to a L/O romantic reconciliation. Which would make sense like you said, but not good sense. Its just not promising the way they are talking about the future of the show.

[Danny Franks]

Its also confusing to me that they say they are not using Felicity to prop him and she will remain on Arrow on S4, when all current plots are pulling her further from Arrow and towards ATOM. I can only speak for myself, but if their plan is to move Felicity as an incentive to watch ATOM spin-off, it wont work for me - esp considering the what they do to Felicity's character when she is around Ray. Its just not what I would make time to watch.

 

Now, like you said if their real purpose was to put a permanent anvil on Olicity, what was the point of hyping it and doing all their humanity/light analogies? But it does make sense that this is one of the 1st bricks that they laid that could possibly lead to a L/O romantic reconciliation. Which would make sense like you said, but not good sense. Its just not promising the way they are talking about the future of the show.

 

I've been saying this for a while, but I think this season ends with Ray asking Felicity to leave Starling City with him. That'll be her cliffhanger, and if they get a spinoff going, she'll transfer to that. If not, then she'll still be on Arrow next season, and possibly still with Ray so he can reappear as a recurring character again.

 

I really don't think any of the people writing this show give a shit about Arrow, other than as a platform to get their little pet projects off the ground. They couldn't do Batman, so they did Arrow, but have no affection for Oliver Queen. They couldn't do Iron Man, so they want to do Atom. What's next? They want to do Guardians of the Galaxy but have to settle for turning the Legion of Superheroes into a ragtag band of criminals? Actually, I might put a bet on them trying to do just that.

[lemotomato]

Its also confusing to me that they say they are not using Felicity to prop him and she will remain on Arrow on S4, when all current plots are pulling her further from Arrow and towards ATOM. I can only speak for myself, but if their plan is to move Felicity as an incentive to watch ATOM spin-off, it wont work for me - esp considering the what they do to Felicity's character when she is around Ray. Its just not what I would make time to watch.

 

I'll go one step further and say that not only will I not watch an ATOM spin-off, I'm not going to watch "The Flash", "Supergirl" or anything that MG, AK, and Berlanti get their hands on because I am so bitter about what they've done to "Arrow". 

[chaos is welcome]

I'll go one step further and say that not only will I not watch an ATOM spin-off, I'm not going to watch "The Flash", "Supergirl" or anything that MG, AK, and Berlanti get their hands on because I am so bitter about what they've done to "Arrow".

Soooo much this. I have stopped watching arrow, watch the flash but never live, and only bc my son enjoys it immensely. I won't allow myself to be invested. I will never ever watch anything from those EPs again. I won't ever buy a comic from DC or the midseason comics again. So bitter at how far this show has gone.

[Guest]

I feel pretty good in my decision to quit. I haven't watched the last three episodes in full anyway. I caught a few scenes on YT that I needed to see before I made any assumptions but apart from that I have no interest in continuing. Like others have said, I'm disappointed I bought into the hype during the summer because I feel duped. I never expected it to get this bad. But when you dread episodes and can predict everything that's happening, you know it's time to give up. 

 

I think the biggest problem I have is their agenda is showing. It's all about comic book heroes and their costumes and if you don't have one, you shit out. You're not important.

 

Diggle has suffered hugely because of this, dating all the way back to 301 when they had Diggle agree with Oliver's dumb decision to remove him from the field. I know there was a little progress against that decision in 315 but that doesn't make up for all the other times Diggle - the trained special ops soldier who has lived through actual wars - has been sidelined while the inexperienced go out to cosplay. Not only is it frustrating but it's actually laughable that they expect me to believe that is the right choice. 

 

Moreover, where is Diggle's storyline? What about H.I.V.E? Why is that not important? If anything, seeing Sara's death and Laurel's grief/anger should have stirred his own over the death of Andy but it's just been left in the air. Ugh.

 

I also feel like they're knocking Felicity down and segregating her from the rest of the action on purpose. 315 was a fine example of that. I refuse to believe that Felicity would be off screwing Ray while Oliver and Diggle are in danger, even if she's hurt and angry and thinks they've made the wrong choice. Even the implication that she's choosing Ray over her team makes me uncomfortable and that's not just because I dislike Ray with the heat of a thousand suns.

 

Original Team Arrow might be a thing of the past now but the bonds shouldn't be. We should still see the results of them working together for over two years, talking things through before making decisions. There was such a clear camaraderie between the three of them, a fundamental understanding of how each other work and they played off each other so well. Now Laurel is on the team it feels like everything is thrown off kilter and Felicity is siding with Laurel and Diggle and Oliver are on the other side and it's not the team I know and love. Where has it gone? The 'teamwork' feels non-existent. 

 

And I'm so angry that Felicity's whole storyline this season revolves around her choice of a love interest. She deserves so much more than 'Well, I can't have Oliver so I'll settle for Ray.' Because that's exactly how it looks, exactly how they've framed it in the narrative with all these constant comparisons to Oliver. Ugh.

And I just realized that Felicity's line in The Flash about Ray being Barry in Oliver's body is SO MUCH WORSE now that she's actually slept with him.

Gross. This whole arc would have been more palatable if Felicity had met some average Joe who wanted to go on dates and just have a normal everyday sort of relationship. I would have believed Felicity's indecision to have a normal life over one with Oliver. Right now I just see her as rebounding hard and it's not doing Felicity (or Ray) any favors.

 

Ray's ATOM suit just makes me laugh and not in a good way. I don't want to see people flying on Arrow. Take it over to The Flash. I want my show to stay as grounded as possible and Ray is messing with that (and undermining Oliver's own abilities and journey). I honestly don't see the point of his storyline at all, other than to stall Oliver and Felicity. If they wanted me to like him, they've gone completely the wrong way about it. I'm not invested, I don't care. I just see him as a nuisance, removing Felicity from the team and wasting screen time that could be given elsewhere.

 

I'm not even going to comment on how dumb Malcolm's whole storyline is because it makes no sense. Logic missing. Plot holes. Plot holes everywhere. Just bad writing all round. And it's so obvious they're going to try to redeem him when not all people should be redeemed. Let bad people be bad. It's way more interesting that way. 

 

I don't have anything new to add to my problems with Laurel because they've already been said, many many times.

 

Yep. This show is a dud. Such a shame. 

Edited February 26, 2015 by Guest

[Lady Calypso]

I also feel like they're knocking Felicity down and segregating her from the rest of the action on purpose. 315 was a fine example of that. I refuse to believe that Felicity would be off screwing Ray while Oliver and Diggle are in danger, even if she's hurt and angry and thinks they've made the wrong choice. Even the implication that she's choosing Ray over her team makes me uncomfortable and that's not just because I dislike Ray with the heat of a thousand suns.

Original Team Arrow might be a thing of the past now but the bonds shouldn't be. We should still see the results of them working together for over two years, talking things through before making decisions. There was such a clear camaraderie between the three of them, a fundamental understanding of how each other work and they played off each other so well. Now Laurel is on the team it feels like everything is thrown off kilter and Felicity is siding with Laurel and Diggle and Oliver are on the other side and it's not the team I know and love. Where has it gone? The 'teamwork' feels non-existent.

 

 

I absolutely agree. The one reason why I've stuck with this show is because of Team Arrow. It's their friendship and the ability to understand each other that worked well for me. Even when someone did something stupid, they had each other's backs, would stand up and state their opinions, but they would be there and not abandon each other. But now? Diggle's on the sideline but is finally making his way back on the field, Felicity's off with Ray half the time and Oliver's being an idiot. It doesn't feel like a team anymore. It feels....I don't know, like a business? I'm not really sure, but the dynamic has changed, and I feel like it's been different even before Oliver left to fight Ra's. This season just....it's made me annoyed at pretty much every single character.

 

I've also been having problems with Felicity. I know, I know, unpopular opinion but I'm not here for this cliche. I was delusional to think once Olicity was becoming a real thing, that it would stay uncliched, but I was wrong. Felicity's turned into someone that just...isn't quite Felicity anymore. I mean, on the outside she's pretty much the same but I'm seeing subtle things in her character that does not make me feel like she's the Felicity we've grown to know and love. I know I should be understanding of why she's angry at Oliver, I should be on her side and I should be happy that she's her own person but...I'm just not, and I can't even explain why. Maybe it's my mood right now, maybe it's just more of last episode, maybe it's the season in general that's making me more critical and cynical, but...I just can't get behind Felicity right now. I really wish I could articulate exactly what my issues are with Felicity, but I can't. And honestly, I don't think it has much to do with Laurel joining Team Arrow at all. It's my own issues with how they're treating Oliver and Felicity, and Felicity's role on Team Arrow in general. I appreciated that Felicity did things that were out of the norm for TV shows, where she could stand up to Oliver but still be there for him, no matter what. How she couldn't quit Team Arrow because of him and Diggle. But now? I can see her quitting at the end of the season and only coming back if there was a major crisis, and that's not how I felt in season 2.

[Shanna]

Well, I didn't mind the Diggle thing in 301 because Lila was 9 months pregnant and about the have a baby. Diggle should have been easily reachable.

But yeah, it doesn't make any sense now. None of what they are doing makes any sense.

I haven't quit the show, I'm waiting to see if they turn it around, but I am skipping every episode I think might piss me off, which means I've skipped half the episodes since they came back from break.

I feel like ray and laurel combined are eating the show, and ray specifically is eating all of Felicitys screen time which is annoying. (And yes it sounds like they are fucking with her character for the sake of ray and I hate that too, but I've skipped some of the episodes so I happily missed them having sex I guess thank god). Team arrow has always been the most important thing and those three original characters the most important and the heart of the show. And they are messing it up.

I just do not understand why you would take a show that is working and kill the parts that everyone loves. Like, I literally cannot understand it.

Also since it can't be said enough everything about the Malcolm story is deeply stupid.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Shanna

[Guest]

This season just....it's made me annoyed at pretty much every single character.

 

I've also been having problems with Felicity. I know, I know, unpopular opinion but I'm not here for this cliche. I was delusional to think once Olicity was becoming a real thing, that it would stay uncliched, but I was wrong. Felicity's turned into someone that just...isn't quite Felicity anymore. I mean, on the outside she's pretty much the same but I'm seeing subtle things in her character that does not make me feel like she's the Felicity we've grown to know and love. I know I should be understanding of why she's angry at Oliver, I should be on her side and I should be happy that she's her own person but...I'm just not, and I can't even explain why. Maybe it's my mood right now, maybe it's just more of last episode, maybe it's the season in general that's making me more critical and cynical, but...I just can't get behind Felicity right now. I really wish I could articulate exactly what my issues are with Felicity, but I can't. And honestly, I don't think it has much to do with Laurel joining Team Arrow at all. It's my own issues with how they're treating Oliver and Felicity, and Felicity's role on Team Arrow in general. I appreciated that Felicity did things that were out of the norm for TV shows, where she could stand up to Oliver but still be there for him, no matter what. How she couldn't quit Team Arrow because of him and Diggle. But now? I can see her quitting at the end of the season and only coming back if there was a major crisis, and that's not how I felt in season 2.

 

Moved to Felicity Smoak thread.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Guest

[moviewhore]

 I'm done now.  Mostly cause of the Thea/Malcolm storyline.  Having Ollie yell at her for revealing what her own fucking dad did to her was the last straw for me.  Her agency was wiped out and I hear Ollie say "because Malcolm loves Thea"  Enough, enough, enough, Thea's being disrespected all over again.  Ollie has turned into a complete moron who can seriously fuck off and die now. 

 

Also, I'm bitter that Thea was essentially raped by that blond DJ/evil minion dude and then Felicity bangs Ray after he stalked her.  What a positive empowering message for all young women.  It doesn't matter if a guy is a scumbag on the show!!  Awesome.  Fuck that shit. 

 

The team is gone,  Ollie's reduced to being a nitwit whose story is done,  Diggie is just background and Felicity's been turned into just a love interest/propper for Laurel.  So all the ingredients that made the show special are no longer being used.  So time to move on before it gets worse. 

 

Suzanne and Colin were the lucky ones to leave.  The show is dead. 

[kdm07]

I haven't watched this show since 3x02. I have another CW sci-fi/action show to take up my Wednesday nights (seriously, people need to start watching The 100 if you aren't already. A slow-starter but well worth the wait!).

 

After seeing what they did to Sara to further BC: Laurel's journey, I knew there was nothing these show runners wouldn't do to push Laurel and more importantly, other superheroes, in our faces all the time whether we want them or not. Olicity? Pure distraction at the beginning imo and now poor Felicity is being used to setup Ray/The Atom.

 

When a show becomes something I actively hate, I let it go and reading the comments since that episode make me fell better about dumping this trainwreck.

Edited February 26, 2015 by kdm07

[Belinea]

At this point (and this is speaking as a Felicity fan) I almost find my self wishing that she leaves with Ray. Because then I don't have to handle him anymore and I might watch Arrow mainly again for Oliver and Diggle. Since I am firmly convinced that Laurel is still considered their favorite as far as love interests for Oliver go and then I could slowly be bored to death and drop the show. I wouldn't have to watch the ATOM show and I could actually let go.

 

I just miss the dynamics and I don't think we will go back to it. But it won't be the same. I also don't get what Felicity feels. Is she in love with Ray? Does she love the fact that he isn't Oliver? Does she like flattery? Can MG tell me exactly why he think Felicity is in love with Oliver. Is it just so subtle that I can't even see it. She never express anything. Maybe she is but you could also argue that she isn't. I however could see them going for "I love you" with Ray. Just to break the hearts of the people who watch their show even more. I know that not everyone watches but they way they are destroying that connection damages my enjoyment.

At the end we are Felicity in 3x01 (which is really meta.) They need to stop dangling maybes and just let it go. At this point I could live without all the romance if they went back to the S1/early2 dynamic. I reached that point. And if I read MG's rude responses I find myself even further convinced that they enjoy people being heartbroken and don't care at all. (But then again I wonder why the reporter from Zap2it tweeted that they were really worried how fans would react to that. It just seems like a split personality. They know people will hate it, people tell them they hate it and they act like entitle children...)

 

 

 

Normally I don't quote the BBT but it is like Sheldon said on cancellation "The lowered the quality season by season so that we were glad it ended". 

[Sakura12]

Normally I don't quote the BBT but it is like Sheldon said on cancellation "The lowered the quality season by season so that we were glad it ended". 

 

Which was about "Heroes" another show that started out strong and fizzled into being awful. 

[calliope1975]

It's been slow sinking into my poor, little fangirl brain, but the show I loved is done, and I don't think it's ever coming back. MG's almost gleeful blogging dismissing fans' criticisms last night killed any hope I had of it making a turnaround in the last half. I'm really saddened by this, and I hope when this is all said and done, my fave actors can move on to something worthy of their talents. I suppose I'll just try to pretend Arrow was canceled after Season 2. 

[Danny Franks]

It's been slow sinking into my poor, little fangirl brain, but the show I loved is done, and I don't think it's ever coming back. MG's almost gleeful blogging dismissing fans' criticisms last night killed any hope I had of it making a turnaround in the last half. I'm really saddened by this, and I hope when this is all said and done, my fave actors can move on to something worthy of their talents. I suppose I'll just try to pretend Arrow was canceled after Season 2. 

 

Yep. The audience it's catering for seems to be action and melodrama junkies who have no more thought for character motivations than the writers do themselves. I've never watched a CW show before, but it seems like this is pretty much standard for them. What a crummy network it is. Arrow has fallen off a cliff faster than a 3rd season USA show, and for much the same reasons.

[KenyaJ]

I just miss the dynamics and I don't think we will go back to it. But it won't be the same. I also don't get what Felicity feels. Is she in love with Ray? Does she love the fact that he isn't Oliver? Does she like flattery? Can MG tell me exactly why he think Felicity is in love with Oliver. Is it just so subtle that I can't even see it. She never express anything. Maybe she is but you could also argue that she isn't.

 

We'll never know, because this storyline isn't about Felicity at all. She's just there.

[tv echo]

The 5 Stages of Arrow Withdrawal:

 

1. Bafflement
2. Frustration
3. Anger
4. Disgust
5. Apathy

 

I think I'm somewhere between stages 3 and 4...

[dtissagirl]

We'll never know, because this storyline isn't about Felicity at all. She's just there.

 

Pretty sure that "what more do you want for Felicity" Guggenheim threw at the person who ~dared to ask him to give her a storyline not about a dude is proof enough you're right.

[Password]

Pretty sure that "what more do you want for Felicity" Guggenheim threw at the person who ~dared to ask him to give her a storyline not about a dude is proof enough you're right.

Wow.

[NumberCruncher]

Pretty sure that "what more do you want for Felicity" Guggenheim threw at the person who ~dared to ask him to give her a storyline not about a dude is proof enough you're right.

Yeah, that response was ridiculous as was him joking about how we should just be happy Felicity got laid. Dude, you're the brilliant writer, Guggenheim, so why don't you figure out a storyline for her that doesn't basically relegate her to the status of superhero sex bait instead of mocking fans who desire something more for her character.

[Lady Calypso]

Marc needs to learn what questions to answer and what questions it's ok to skip out on. I get the feeling he just answers everything in his inbox, bar a few repeats, and then lets the fans simmer with his passive-aggressiveness. I just really want to ask him some questions of my own, but I need to figure out how to word it.

 

Starting with why he had to turn season 3 into a walking cliche, why everyone's stupid for plot reasons, where did Team Arrow go, and more importantly, where is Quentin?

[DrSpaceman10]

I'm bitter that they've pretty much turned Felicity into just a love interest for Ray.

[moviewhore]

The show's treatment of women is disgusting.  Rapey storylines are A-OK.  Really, just knowing Thea's been systematically raped by her father and then by that blond asshole makes me sick.  Don't get me started on Ray/Felicity sexing it up.  I was shocked about that actually because here's a girl who is supposed to be in love with Ollie-to the point of tearing herself apart a little-to her just heading over to Ray's for more helping.  Christ, is that all she's worth- a propper, someone who helps out without having her own life?  I was pissed with that hookup because it drags her down and makes her devotion/love to Ollie seem not so real to me. 

 

I'm sick of Ollie but I'm also sick of having him lose everything and everyone.  He lost his best friend, his father, his mother, Sara, Thea, and now Felicity.  I'm tired of the constant brokenness of the man and how the show just keeps hammering at him.  I miss the old Ollie who smiled and had a family around him.  Seeing that man erode and become someone unrecognizable is my main bitterness over the show.  Not the Laurel stuff, not the ATOM bullshit, not ever Sara dying.  It's watching the psychological destruction of Oliver Queen which is the equivalent of a snuff film in it's violence.  It's made the whole show into all-the time darkness.  I think Oliver actually did die on the island after all. Maybe he should have.  And that is just not what I want to view every Wed. 

Edited February 26, 2015 by moviewhore

[KenyaJ]

I agree that the show runners are tempted to tease and drag out until no one cares anymore. But I suppose the point of my original post was that O&F was just made canon 15 eps ago, so I figured people wouldn't be so tired of the teasing yet, haha.

 

If the show had kept all the aspects of their relationship that made people love it, I don't think fans would be tired of the teasing. I think most Olicity fans understand that there are valid, legitimate character- and plot-based reasons for them not to be together. But having them not communicate with each other and barely talk to each other these days has ruined whatever romantic angst that could be mined from keeping them apart. They barely have any relationship to each other at all since The Climb, and no one signed up for that. Adding Ray to the mix is cheaper than cheap, and since everyone associated with the show is getting off by telling Olicity fans how hopeless that relationship is right now, it's no wonder that people have rapidly approached the "Fuck this bullshit" stage.

[Lady Calypso]

I'm sick of Ollie but I'm also sick of having him lose everything and everyone.  He lost his best friend, his father, his mother, Sara, Thea, and now Felicity.  I'm tired of the constant brokenness of the man and how the show just keeps hammering at him.  I miss the old Ollie who smiled and had a family around him.  Seeing that man erode and become someone unrecognizable is my main bitterness over the show.  Not the Laurel stuff, not the ATOM bullshit, not ever Sara dying.  It's watching the psychological destruction of Oliver Queen which is the equivalent of a snuff film in it's violence.  It's made the whole show into all-the time darkness.  I think Oliver actually did die on the island after all.  And that is just not what I want to view every Wed.

 

 

God, this is so, so true and so, so sad. Oliver's greatest weakness is that he puts all the blame on himself. Blame about his parents' death, blame about Tommy, blame about the city almost getting destroyed, blame about everyone who gets hurt around him, blame about Felicity, blame probably about thunderstorms and earthquakes and everything out of his control. All of this blame is clearly eating away at him and it's no wonder he's been self-destructing and pushing people away/yelling at them/being an idiotic asshole for three seasons. And here's the thing that I've read about Oliver: he just assumes if people around him don't die, they'll end up hating/leaving him so he has an almost 'why bother' type of attitude. He's physically strong but emotionally and mentally weak...or at least damaged. And the show doesn't give up on hammering and solidifying Oliver's weakness. 

 

I say season four, he gets a therapist and starts rebuilding himself. It's all up to him, of course. However, the people around him need to understand that he's not a regular guy who's just an asshole because he can be. He's an asshole because he's not emotionally well and he needs the support to help him through it. Diggle and Felicity used to do that, but now they don't really. Diggle does on occasion, when the show allows him to be more than a supporting character. Felicity....well, I'm not quite sure where Felicity's gone this season. It's like she's completely given up on him and is leaving him in the dust. Oliver's only support is Thea, who has thankfully been a pretty structured person. It's like Thea has taken up Felicity's role in not giving up and standing up for herself/not listening to when he tells her what to do. But the one thing the show did right is have Thea not be mad at Oliver and has been there for him ever since he told her the truth.

 

But seriously, Oliver is so depressing that season 4 needs a chance of pace, something to show us that Oliver isn't completely lost and he can be saved, rather than having to always do the saving like he thinks he has to do.

[Danny Franks]

Pretty sure that "what more do you want for Felicity" Guggenheim threw at the person who ~dared to ask him to give her a storyline not about a dude is proof enough you're right.

 

Hmm. He really just doesn't get it at all, does he? There is no helping him, with this sort of attitude to female characters. First he claimed he didn't see the connection between dumping Sara in a fridge and the fridging of female characters, and now he's getting bent out of shape because people dare to ask when Felicity Smoak might get a storyline that is actually about her and her choices and wants and needs, rather than just propping up whatever character the writers want to succeed.

 

Oh, how I wish some media outlets would cotton on to the nasty, misogynistic way this show has treated all of the female characters, and start talking about it. This is the show that has repeatedly had helpless female characters executed for nothing more than the dramatic effect it will have on the male characters. Someone should be talking about that. It simply shouldn't be allowed, in this day and age, for such horrible attitudes to women to be on display in any sort of mainstream media.

 

I remember saying this before, but if any child in school wrote a story where women died like that, over and over again, they would be sent to some mandated therapy sessions and viewed as a child in need of help. That's without even talking about the incest stuff that the Arrow writers seem to get off on.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Danny Franks

[Shanna]

I'm bitter that they've pretty much turned Felicity into just a love interest for Ray.

I am so bitter about this. And we should just be happy felicity got laid? Did mg really say that? Man I hate that guy.

Wtf is this business about Thea being rapes by the dj. I skipped that episode but i didn't see it mentioned anywhere before this.

About Oliver's loss, the show just plain didn't need to pile on. Oliver has enough issues from the island to spend an entire show just healing from the trauma. Even stupid batman just lost his parents, right? A superhero doesn't need a million traumatic events. One good one will do. For Oliver, just losing his dad in that way would have been enough but the island and post island trauma is all present as well. We did not need him to lose everyone else. Stupid writers.

Honestly this whole season Should have been 'the season where Oliver gets therapy'. They even teased it with that one therapist! Would have been much more entertaining.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Shanna

[SleepDeprived]

I am very bitter that Brandon Routh does not have abs, only a flat chest and a toned stomach. Okay, that sounds weird and wrong and more than a little stupid now that I've typed it out but this show used to give me countless episodes with shirtless Stephen Amell parading around his perfectly-sculpted body! Plus, David Ramsey!! Colton has abs, too, even though he's a little leaner. And even Caity Lotz! If they really want me to believe that Palmer can make Felicity so very flustered around his shirtless self (when she's been around shirtless, sometimes sweaty, other times bloody, Oliver and Diggle for two years) then Routh really needed to up his superhero workout game.

 

Lmao no. I'm being facetious. Brandon looks good, fit, and healthy. I'm just a little annoyed that the writing/direction keeps making Felicity act so unsettled about Palmer's nakedness when, for two years, she's been around men/a woman who can teach detailed Anatomy classes about the musculoskeletal system using only themselves for reference.

 

Although, honestly, I really have been so very disappointed about Palmer. I was open to Palmer coming onboard and, possibly, providing a good contrast to Oliver as he dealt with his identity crisis before the season began. Ah, how naive I was. Because the show has pretty much done the opposite and made Palmer an Oliver 2.0: But with Jet Packs. What's worse is the show is pretty much inviting all the comparisons between Oliver and Palmer and trying to imply that Palmer is the better option all around. That he's the greatest thing ever since sliced bread. When, as has been discussed all over the boards, Palmer keeps doing things that are quite problematic and causes me discomfort. To me, what the writers think as endearing comes across as manipulative and what they want me to see as a cutesy quirk feels creepy. But Palmer is the perfect new Xbox One and Oliver is the ratty broken PS1.

 

Really, though, why is there another vigilante who can actually fly and shoot freaking lasers on a show about a hero who uses his body and superior archery skills to save the city? Now they, seemingly, want to ship Oliver off to Nanda Parbat. Why are the writers trying to make Oliver irrelevant in his own origin story and undermining his journey?

 

I think I'm slowly coming to terms that the show I loved is gone now. I'm just not finding anything worth tuning in for anymore other than the scraps they give me of Diggle. I used to love watching all things Felicity, now I dread them because I know Palmer's just lurking around the corner. I used to be excited for Oliver and Thea scenes, but not anymore because of Malcolm. I have never ever been so disappointed in a show before as much as I have been with Arrow this season.

[NumberCruncher]

I am so bitter about this. And we should just be happy felicity got laid? Did mg really say that? Man I hate that guy.

Pretty much:

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/112109705319/is-felicity-finally-gonna-find-happiness-in-the

[Password]

I've gotten to the point where I wish season 3 never happened. I can handle Oliver pushing away friends and family and love because he doesn't know any other way but thiiiis. This Oliver, I want nothing to do with.

This...person who has no thinking and leadership skills can be left in season 3.

I do not care about anything else happening in the show. Dyla, Thea, Laurel, Raylicity (can take a flying leap...Ray not Felicity). But give me Oliver Queen, hero of Starling who listens to his team mates who have been with him through hell, who trusts them implicitly, who finds another way, who GETS EXCITED OVER A DATE WITH A QUEEN. Give me him and I will hand wave everything that's happened this season. In fact, I would take the win if Oliver finally learns, digests, accepts and implements the skill of telling the truth.

[strikera0]

Pretty sure that "what more do you want for Felicity" Guggenheim threw at the person who ~dared to ask him to give her a storyline not about a dude is proof enough you're right.

 

Hmm. He really just doesn't get it at all, does he? There is no helping him, with this sort of attitude to female characters. First he claimed he didn't see the connection between dumping Sara in a fridge and the fridging of female characters, and now he's getting bent out of shape because people dare to ask when Felicity Smoak might get a storyline that is actually about her and her choices and wants and needs, rather than just propping up whatever character the writers want to succeed.

 

Oh, how I wish some media outlets would cotton on to the nasty, misogynistic way this show has treated all of the female characters, and start talking about it. This is the show that has repeatedly had helpless female characters executed for nothing more than the dramatic effect it will have on the male characters. Someone should be talking about that. It simply shouldn't be allowed, in this day and age, for such horrible attitudes to women to be on display in any sort of mainstream media.

 

Yup, the shoddy treatment of female characters on this show comes as no surprise when one reads some of MG's sexist comments on Twitter/Tumblr. Personally, I was already a bit irked when MG repeatedly stated that "Oliver screws everything he moves" - reducing characters like Laurel, Shado, Helena, McKenna and Sara to nothing but a meaningless notch in a bedpost. Really, the only female character that descriptor may apply to would be Isabel. She was really nothing more than a meaningless one-night-stand, but the rest were women that (post-island) Oliver genuinely liked and cared for.

Edited February 27, 2015 by strikera0