All Episodes Talk: Saving People, Hunting Things

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

S11 was my favorite season since S6 until the last 3 episodes. 

Ditto.  Although I also really liked the first half of 7 (plus Plucky's) and most of 10.

[MAK]

Every episode directed by Kim Manners was great! 

Most S1 to S3 episodes were good, Faith, The End and Nightshifter.

There were,some in the later seasons that stood out, like Baby. 

[hypnotoad]

I finally finished season 15. I'm working from home now and TNT reruns got me through it. I'm not sure I'd ever watched them on my own. Trapped working with the tv on certainly helped!

For me seasons 1-5 are the best. I enjoy 6 and 7 overall. I hate 8-9 - HATE. Seasons 10-13 were ok and not very remarkable save a couple of episodes. Season 14 just killed my momentum as far as finishing this show. It was awful. I knew season 15 wasn't going to be a huge improvement and show did not prove me wrong on that opinion.

I can't think of anything I liked about the fight with god. All of it was just dumb. And naturally Jack became god. whatever. This viewer would have been much happier overall if the writers had resolved all the angel nonsense with the leviathans and then gone back to the brothers hunting bad things. There could have been occasional arcs but I was over angels, Michael, Lucifer, Jack, Castiel, God, the darkness way before we got to the last season.

Also? This shows version of Lucifer was the whiniest whiner who ever whined. Every time he showed up I wanted to scream. Even when he was Rick Springfield, who I love.

I won't lie - I cried when Dean died. I'm a sucker for the brothers and their love for each other. No matter how bad the scripts Jensen and Jared always maintained their chemistry. Did I laugh at Sam's old man wig? I sure did. Terrible. And really they couldn't show us a bit about his wife? I mean I get that covid did affect some of the ending for sure, but Dean just driving around heaven endlessly? Again whatever.

Honestly I found it a pathetic ending for a show I love so much. At least TNT is back to season 1. I can enjoy good episodes of this show.

[DeeDee79]

32 minutes ago, hypnotoad said:

This viewer would have been much happier overall if the writers had resolved all the angel nonsense with the leviathans and then gone back to the brothers hunting bad things. There could have been occasional arcs but I was over angels, Michael, Lucifer, Jack, Castiel, God, the darkness way before we got to the last season.

I agree with your overall thoughts but I couldn't agree with you more about this. The angel nonsense added nothing to the show beyond season 5 IMO.

[ahrtee]

I rewatched the last two eps of season 15 on TNT today (don't judge me...I was bored!)  The main thing I came away with was that, if you ignored the first (horrible/boring) 45 minutes of episode 19, the last 15 minutes or so would have been a very, very good SPN ending.  Jack was gone in a golden haze of cliches, and the boys were together, and looking *happy*.  They were on their own for the first time in their lives; they had control over their own lives and could do whatever they wanted.  We had the final retrospective montage that showed pretty much their entire lives, especially their wins (and hugs); and they even had the "drop the gun into the trunk and slam the lid" with the unspoken "we've got work to do" ending just before driving off into the sunset of myth.   If they'd ended the show there, IMO it would have been a very satisfying and fitting ending.

However, Dabb didn't want anything open-ended that might possibly bring the boys back without his control, so the final ep was a completely  unnecessary, pointless and truly horrible epilog that did nothing but slam the door on the boys and their legacy.  Maybe...just maybe...Dabb's original plan was intended as a kind of party celebrating the Winchesters, with all the previous guest stars and regulars whooping it up (without any real plot--just hoping that nostalgia would save the day) but, even without Covid, that wouldn't work within in the world he created.  

And I noticed that, since it was Dean's phone that Donna had sent the call to,  I guess we can assume that Sam never told her about Dean's death at all.  Does that mean he didn't tell anyone?  Maybe the faceless wife was the latest version of hitting a dog, cutting himself off from all his old friends, and settling down with someone random.

Even Dean's death scene wouldn't have been so bad if they'd ended with the usual "I'm proud of you," and even the implied "you can survive without me better than I can without you," if they hadn't dumped in all the weak-Dean tropes of "you're the most important one," and "I walked around outside your dorm for hours  because I was so afraid you would tell me to go away; because I can't survive without you." 

(I have to admit I turned off the TV after Dean's death scene so I skipped the awful wigs this time around.) 

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by ahrtee

[gonzosgirrl]

Deleted scene from the finale.

 

It's too bad they cut it - there are not many scenes in the latter half of the series where it actually feels like two brothers who like each other, interacting. Sam seems to have eased the stick out of his ass somewhat; him finishing the 'driver picks the music' mantra is actually kind of cute and it's still big-brother Dean's scene.

I'm not sure of the placement, but if it was supposed to be on the way to the 'cake walk' vamp hunt, and Dean doesn't know he's never actually going to see Miracle again... well. Shit.

[PAForrest]

57 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Deleted scene from the finale.

It's too bad they cut it - there are not many scenes in the latter half of the series where it actually feels like two brothers who like each other, interacting. Sam seems to have eased the stick out of his ass somewhat; him finishing the 'driver picks the music' mantra is actually kind of cute and it's still big-brother Dean's scene.

I'm not sure of the placement, but if it was supposed to be on the way to the 'cake walk' vamp hunt, and Dean doesn't know he's never actually going to see Miracle again... well. Shit.

😭 The other thing that is made clear in this scene, and in the way Sam mostly ignores Miracle after Dean dies, is that Miracle is 100% Dean's dog. That makes it even more likely he gave Miracle to Jodi or Donna or someone like that on his way to Austin since he didn't intend to return to the bunker.

Yes, it would have been nice to have included this scene, and they certainly had time to do that. I don't know what the hell Singer and the editors were thinking when they cut this episode.

12 hours ago, ahrtee said:

I rewatched the last two eps of season 15 on TNT today (don't judge me...I was bored!)  The main thing I came away with was that, if you ignored the first (horrible/boring) 45 minutes of episode 19, the last 15 minutes or so would have been a very, very good SPN ending.  Jack was gone in a golden haze of cliches, and the boys were together, and looking *happy*.  They were on their own for the first time in their lives; they had control over their own lives and could do whatever they wanted.  We had the final retrospective montage that showed pretty much their entire lives, especially their wins (and hugs); and they even had the "drop the gun into the trunk and slam the lid" with the unspoken "we've got work to do" ending just before driving off into the sunset of myth.   If they'd ended the show there, IMO it would have been a very satisfying and fitting ending.

However, Dabb didn't want anything open-ended that might possibly bring the boys back without his control, so the final ep was a completely  unnecessary, pointless and truly horrible epilog that did nothing but slam the door on the boys and their legacy. 

You'll never convince me that Dabb didn't grow to hate Kripke's take on the Winchesters and the universe Kripke created. The final episode made it quite clear he continued to resent the fact that he and Berens couldn't spin off the mothership universe because of how the Winchesters were vitally important to the show. If they got to keep the Roadhouse party aspect of the finale, that would have been Dabb saying only dead people cared about the Winchesters. The rest of the living world didn't. But at least we would have had a party.

I agree ending on the cheesy montage in 19 would have been better - though better is relative WRT the final two episodes. And regardless of what Dabb and Singer said, I think there had to be some radical changes to the scripts, especially in 19. Showalter already spilled the beans on that one long before they went back to shoot anyway.

I don't think anyone truly believes the beach scene was supposed to go down the socially distanced way it did. Sure, Chuck still probably became human because the CW wouldn't let them kill "god", and Jackie Poo Sue was supposed to inherit all Chuck's powers because JPS was Dabb. But I think the beach scene was supposed to have a lot of characters involved, probably angels and demons from the Empty who were awakened after JPS blew up and made it "loud". I think that's how Lucifer was really supposed to get out, and it's more likely than not Cas would have been there too. After the battle, what happened to Luci and Cas remains to be seen. Given how much Eugenie loved Luci and wanted him to have a redemption arc, I'm guessing he and Mikey actually helped defeat Chuck and didn't turn on the Winchesters. At least that's my theory.

If Cas was to return at the end of 19 with the other angels from the Empty, he probably would have chosen to go off with Jack to help him do what they did - fix Heaven, probably the Empty too, Purgatory, etc. And then we'd see him one more time as a cameo in Heaven with the brothers, and probably Jack too since Alex admitted he shot a scene for the finale.

[trudysmom]

For lack of a better (more appropriate ) place to put this mini-rant: WTF is wrong with TNT?  Why in the name of chuck do they keep screwing with the episodes?  I was enjoying season 3 Dean-getting-ready-to-go-to-hell yesterday when BAM they follow a season 3 with a season 1 episode.  I know, I know, Netflix.  But is it too much to ask to just show the show in the order the show should be shown?  

Leaving now to the tune of Styx "Too Much Time on my Hands".

 

[FlickChick]

On 6/10/2021 at 8:37 AM, trudysmom said:

For lack of a better (more appropriate ) place to put this mini-rant: WTF is wrong with TNT?  Why in the name of chuck do they keep screwing with the episodes?  I was enjoying season 3 Dean-getting-ready-to-go-to-hell yesterday when BAM they follow a season 3 with a season 1 episode.  I know, I know, Netflix.  But is it too much to ask to just show the show in the order the show should be shown?  

Leaving now to the tune of Styx "Too Much Time on my Hands".

 

It's Summertime - they put the kids (interns) in charge and they like to play around. 😉

[roamyn]

On 5/20/2021 at 12:16 PM, PAForrest said:

On 5/20/2021 at 10:55 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

Expand  

😭 The other thing that is made clear in this scene, and in the way Sam mostly ignores Miracle after Dean dies, is that Miracle is 100% Dean's dog. That makes it even more likely he gave Miracle to Jodi or Donna or someone like that on his way to Austin since he didn't intend to return to the bunker.

He doesn’t ignore Miracle.  He keeps the dog w/him as he goes from room to room, talks to him, pets him.  

While I wish Dean had more to do in Heaven, that his death speech was kissing Sam’s butt 100%, and that terrible wig, it was a pretty good finale.  Well I would like to know if his wife was Eileen.  I don’t get the hate.  So Dean died young.  So Jack took over Amara and became God (and I’m not a Jack fan).  So we didn’t see anyone at the funeral (I could see Sam not wanting anyone there, because he likes to wallow).  How are you really going to wrap up 15 seasons perfectly?  I really think people need to step back and look at the series as a whole, and be thankful we got as many seasons with these wonderful characters.

And S14 was pretty damn perfect IMO.  S15 sucked for the most part.  S12 OTOH was terrible and S13 not too far behind.

My season rankings are 5, 14, 4, 2, 10, 9, 11, 8, 3, 1, 6, 7, 13, 15, 12, 

[Casseiopeia]

One year and 15 seasons ago....

[bethy]

I'm rewatching What Is and What Should Never Be for the first time in a LONG time, and, man. What an incredible disappointment Mary turned out to be. Seeing her again in this episode just reminded me how much I hated who she actually was. Evidently. 

[Casseiopeia]

1 hour ago, bethy said:

I'm rewatching What Is and What Should Never Be for the first time in a LONG time, and, man. What an incredible disappointment Mary turned out to be. Seeing her again in this episode just reminded me how much I hated who she actually was. Evidently. 

We don't count the Dabb re-imagination of Mary years. 

[PAForrest]

1 hour ago, bethy said:

I'm rewatching What Is and What Should Never Be for the first time in a LONG time, and, man. What an incredible disappointment Mary turned out to be. Seeing her again in this episode just reminded me how much I hated who she actually was. Evidently. 

You know, I remember not liking Mary in that episode - and that was Dean's own hallucination, which is why it was even weirder that hallucination Mary would be so cold to Dean. It's as if he always assumed had she lived Mary would not have liked him as an adult, for some reason, and that she'd always prefer Sam.

And as we discovered when she is resurrected, it turns out to be true. She has no affection, not really for both of her sons, but especially none at all for her eldest. I mean, she's awful from the moment she returns; but in season 14, which for this Dean fan is really bad (and makes it very clear why Jensen was ready to call it quits), we see a woman who not only says not one word about her son being taken over by Michael, nor acts like she cares at all, but who spends the rest of the season behaving even colder than she had before toward Dean. It's almost as if Dean is a stranger and not her son. I remember suspecting since Mary returned that we would finally find out that Dean really wasn't her son. It was the only thing that made sense.

And of course, the worst part is the one person who mourns her death the most - Dean - is the one and ONLY person we get no fake fond BS flashback memory for (using Dean as a pillow in the car doesn't count in comparison to every other character's flashback scene). Mary clearly prefers to think of Jack as her son instead of Dean, and she leaves the series without some statement as to why she apparently doesn't love or even like Dean. I mean, I know Dabb didn't like Dean, and Mary 2.0 was his OC; but I wanted a canon on screen explanation for her (at best) complete disinterest in Dean.

Looking back, of course, to when the series was so much better, even then we were given hints that Mary was probably never a good mother to Dean - at least, not the mother Dean fantasized her being. A very strange choice of characterization.

No, Mary wasn't a good or likable character for the most part. She was worse under Dabb, but there was always something lacking in the writing and execution for Mary Winchester.

Edited September 16, 2021 by PAForrest

[bethy]

5 hours ago, PAForrest said:

You know, I remember not liking Mary in that episode - and that was Dean's own hallucination, which is why it was even weirder that hallucination Mary would be so cold to Dean. It's as if he always assumed had she lived Mary would not have liked him as an adult, for some reason, and that she'd always prefer Sam.

That's interesting. I didn't really perceive Mary as cold in WIAWSNB, but as more confused and maybe a little wary given what Dean's character was supposed to be in this fantasy (which is both a "grrrr" and an "oh, Dean" to me) combined with his behavior in that moment. At least, though, she was also concerned and somewhat tender toward him. I loved her hand to his cheek before she went up to bed. She made him a sandwich (and let him mow the yard!). In light of what came later, this version of Mary IS warm and loving. :) I agree, though, that she was never likely the mother Dean fantasized her to be. 

Edited September 17, 2021 by bethy

[PAForrest]

15 hours ago, bethy said:

That's interesting. I didn't really perceive Mary as cold in WIAWSNB, but as more confused and maybe a little wary given what Dean's character was supposed to be in this fantasy (which is both a "grrrr" and an "oh, Dean" to me) combined with his behavior in that moment. At least, though, she was also concerned and somewhat tender toward him. I loved her hand to his cheek before she went up to bed. She made him a sandwich (and let him mow the yard!). In light of what came later, this version of Mary IS warm and loving. :) I agree, though, that she was never likely the mother Dean fantasized her to be. 

In comparison to what comes after, sure, this is as warm as we'll ever see. But it's still a weirdly distant kind of warm, which annoyed me at the time. It's clearly what Dean wants, and yet even in his fantasy there is reticence on Mary's part. And fantasy Mary obviously prefers Sam. Of course, in Dean's estimation, both his parents would prefer Sam to himself - and that's incredibly sad. Of course, we were shown that preference in Home with ghost Mary who goes up to Sam and focuses solely on him and doesn't even acknowledge Dean's presence in the room until he says something.

Besides the writing, I honestly think the bigger problem with Mary is Sam Smith's performance of the character. She just doesn't exude warmth and motherly love, and maybe that's always been a choice on her part WRT the character. I got the impression from interviews and con performances at the time that she really liked playing Mary 2.0 and in her discussions with Drabb, indicated she didn't want to be "mom".

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, PAForrest said:

And fantasy Mary obviously prefers Sam.

In WIAWSNB?  They only had one group scene together, two, I guess, if you count the convincing Dean to let himself die scene, but I'm not.  I don't really feel like Mary was favoring Sam in the restaurant scene.  The son announcing his engagement is always going to get the attention.  Mostly we just see Mary reacting to Dean acting weird, which let's face it, he is because he's jumped into a life that isn't his.  I wouldn't call anything in that episode parental favoritism.

[Aithne]

 

27 minutes ago, Katy M said:

In WIAWSNB?  They only had one group scene together, two, I guess, if you count the convincing Dean to let himself die scene, but I'm not.  I don't really feel like Mary was favoring Sam in the restaurant scene.  The son announcing his engagement is always going to get the attention.  Mostly we just see Mary reacting to Dean acting weird, which let's face it, he is because he's jumped into a life that isn't his.  I wouldn't call anything in that episode parental favoritism.

Yeah, I thought she seemed quite fond of Dean in that ep - I'd have to go back and rewatch, but my impression at the time was that Dean must've been sweet and a good son to her even if Sam had grievances, because Mary seemed warm and open with him. She was weirded out because he was acting strange, but she never seemed wary or unloving or fearful - just worried for him. 

[MAK]

It seems the writers had no idea what to do with Mary 2.0 once they brought her back.

She didn't really contribute much to the storyline. Her role in the BMoL could have been anyone, even Claire (although that would have been very sad).  Mary's motivation wasn't even hinted at. Why did she behave how she did after BMoL? Why did she consider Jack more of a son than her actual sons? Her supposed reason was because she needed to feel "needed." Didn't her sons need her? It's like she thought Dean and Sam wanted her to make meals, do laundry, read them bedtime stories, and tuck them in, hence her "you are not a child" taunt. But for her, it seems, that is all a mother is, hence "I am more than a Mom" proclamation. Probably why she ended up blown up by Jack. She didn't understand how to relate to "kids" except as a 50s housewife. (Sorry, that may be too harsh.)

IMO, she should have disappeared after meeting and getting closure with both her sons. Kind of like Amara gave her back *only* for that reason. They would have a huge confrontation, with recriminations, then forgiveness and as soon as they had a big old  group hug, she would vanish. 

[7kstar]

3 hours ago, MAK said:

It seems the writers had no idea what to do with Mary 2.0 once they brought her back.

She didn't really contribute much to the storyline. Her role in the BMoL could have been anyone, even Claire (although that would have been very sad).  Mary's motivation wasn't even hinted at. Why did she behave how she did after BMoL? Why did she consider Jack more of a son than her actual sons? Her supposed reason was because she needed to feel "needed." Didn't her sons need her? I

I blame the writers and Bad on this.  I think the actress thought she was supposed to be making a statement that mom's are more than just taking care of their kids.  The could have gone in so many interesting directions.  Trying to connect to her kids but failing due to missing her babies so much.  Feeling totally out of place. 

Her teaching the boys something they didn't know about hunting that her history would give her an edge and maybe failing and discovering that she didn't feel needed.   The conflict was naturally set up, but the mess we got instead.  I wouldn't have had a problem with her connection to Jack, if she had connected to her own kids.

There were a few moments here and there, but on the whole it was a fail.

[goett1025]

SOS i’m re-watching supernatural for the billionth time and i’m just now realizing how much i love and appreciate Bobby?!!!!! i knew in later ep that i loved him but so early on i never realized his absolute fatherly energy towards the boys!!!  GOOD SOUP 

[Pondlass1]

Who was his favourite….?   Dean or Sam?

[FlickChick]

7 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

Who was his favourite….?   Dean or Sam?

We know the answer to that question from S6, E6 "You Can't Handle the Truth" when Dean talks to Bobby while under Veritas' spell. 😉

[Morrigan2575]

I love that TNT still does it's annual Halloween Supernatural Marathon.

[Jeddah]

5 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I love that TNT still does it's annual Halloween Supernatural Marathon.

As they should! I hope they keep it up for years and years.

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, Jeddah said:

As they should! I hope they keep it up for years and years.

Same. I just didn't even think about it. I figured once SPN ended they would stop and yet it's still going. I watched Bloody Mary and now The Pilot/Lady in White.

[FlickChick]

4 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Same. I just didn't even think about it. I figured once SPN ended they would stop and yet it's still going. I watched Bloody Mary and now The Pilot/Lady in White.

I don't know whether or not it is still the case, but Supernatural gave TNT their largest daytime ratings of any series. That's one of the reasons that they show so many episodes four days a week. When that inevitably ends, they will probably show fewer episodes or say good-bye to Supernatural. Let's hope that takes a long, long time.

[Morrigan2575]

49 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

don't know whether or not it is still the case, but Supernatural gave TNT their largest daytime ratings of any series.

I haven't looked in awhile but there was a time where SPN made the cable ratings daily from the TNT repeats.

[Katy M]

Bobby's my fave.  I was mad beyond belief when they killed him off.  And, yes, obviously Dean was his favorite.

And I love Weekend at Bobby's and Death's Door.

[Casseiopeia]

 

[hypnotoad]

I know a lot of people don't enjoy the show after season 5. I am one that is basically ok with it through season 7 - then things get quite iffy as far as the quality of seasons. And I find a lot to complain about as the seasons go on but I thought I'd attempt a positive (ish) comment on later seasons:

Last week, the episode where Dean is hexed by a witch and is losing his memory was on TNT. And as I watched it, I thought one of the few fairly good things done during the later seasons was the redemption (ish) of Rowena. I'm by no means saying the story arc was perfect or anything like that but overall compared to so many other not very good storylines and arc's - this one seemed to work. At least for me.

 

[tessathereaper]

13 hours ago, hypnotoad said:

I know a lot of people don't enjoy the show after season 5. I am one that is basically ok with it through season 7 - then things get quite iffy as far as the quality of seasons. And I find a lot to complain about as the seasons go on but I thought I'd attempt a positive (ish) comment on later seasons:

Last week, the episode where Dean is hexed by a witch and is losing his memory was on TNT. And as I watched it, I thought one of the few fairly good things done during the later seasons was the redemption (ish) of Rowena. I'm by no means saying the story arc was perfect or anything like that but overall compared to so many other not very good storylines and arc's - this one seemed to work. At least for me.

 

Regarding Dean is probably one of the only episodes I'd regret losing if we wiped out all the seasons after Season 11 (but if we could wipe out everything that happened after Season 11, you know what? I'd be OK with that, canon or not, we still got Jensen's fantastic acting)

[Aithne]

I sometimes wonder where this show would've gone if they'd kept angels and God out of it. Don't get me wrong - at the time, the introduction was fantastic. Lazarus Rising is still one of my fave episodes, and I loved that early Dean & Castiel tension, figuring each other out, kindred spirits of difficult fathers, just trying to do the right things. 

But afterward... I don't know. I've been going back and reading some of the early-days fic, and it's reminded me of the themes that I and some others were most enthralled by in the first couple seasons. Finding happiness in this hard-scrabble, thankless work, the horror and pain lurking below the breezy road trip, and those thorny relationships at the heart of it, where you can never really walk in someone else's shoes or know them completely, even if you love them more than your own life. 

Things are bound to change over time, and you can't expect the CW to produce 15 seasons of tonally consistent and satisfying story for men growing from their cocky 20s to their weary 40s. And God knows I didn't want the original S3 ending. But I wonder if that tone could've stayed a little longer than it did, if things had been different. Even if Castiel had pulled Dean from Hell, but angels had remained largely off-screen, and had been perhaps just another breed of supernatural creature without God and Lucifer and Michael and all that too-on-the-nose allegorical mess.  

Edited December 28, 2021 by Aithne

[hypnotoad]

Quote

Even if Castiel had pulled Dean from Hell, but angels had remained largely off-screen, and had been perhaps just another breed of supernatural creature without God and Lucifer and Michael and all that too-on-the-nose allegorical mess.  

My point of view? The show would have been better. For me all the angel stuff and apocalypses got boring. I hated Lucifer and not in a 'he's so evil I hate that character' way. I mean every time he turned up  I wanted to scream in frustration. And seriously that whole thing with keeping Nick around to investigate what happened to his family? Were there millions of fans clamoring for that?!? Ugggh. I couldn't find a way to care less. Supernatural's Lucifer was a whiny bitch. Period. Michael was almost as pointless - except JA got to wear some great clothes.

Castiel's introduction was awesome but he got worse and worse and worse as time went on. If there was a decision to be made, he made the wrong one. Every. Single. Time.

Even if they wanted angels to stick around for a bit - why not a season or two of angel angst and then get back to basics? Angels, god, lucifer, Jack kind of ruined this show for me.

[Casseiopeia]

25 minutes ago, hypnotoad said:

Were there millions of fans clamoring for that?!?

Apparently not even the other writers were "clamoring" for that. It was Eugenie's baby all the way in the later seasons. For some reason she thought Lucifer should have a redemption arc.

The angels hit their expiration point at the end of S5. There was no real reason for that story to continue. Specially since they  didn't have any real or original plan for angels for the next 10 seasons.

[Aithne]

On 12/28/2021 at 1:51 PM, hypnotoad said:

My point of view? The show would have been better. For me all the angel stuff and apocalypses got boring. I hated Lucifer and not in a 'he's so evil I hate that character' way. I mean every time he turned up  I wanted to scream in frustration. And seriously that whole thing with keeping Nick around to investigate what happened to his family? Were there millions of fans clamoring for that?!? Ugggh. I couldn't find a way to care less. Supernatural's Lucifer was a whiny bitch. Period. Michael was almost as pointless - except JA got to wear some great clothes.

Castiel's introduction was awesome but he got worse and worse and worse as time went on. If there was a decision to be made, he made the wrong one. Every. Single. Time.

Even if they wanted angels to stick around for a bit - why not a season or two of angel angst and then get back to basics? Angels, god, lucifer, Jack kind of ruined this show for me.

Definitely. I don't think anyone really had a vision for the angels or the Biblical stuff, the way Kripke did for his blue collar Midwestern boys and their demanding, difficult dad, and the lack of inspiration and passion was glaringly obvious. Two seasons would've been more than enough if they really needed to do the dumbass vessel story, but I could've done without that too (why are you going to slap cheap labels on your well-drawn, complex characters like that? Dean's more than the good son and Sam is more than the rebel, and they deserved better than these Michael and Lucifer parallels.) Just have Cas drag Dean out of Hell, have it be some non-apocalyptic purpose that the three of them pursue together, and have him leave once it's done. It could've kept the tone of the show so much closer to what I fell in love with, I think. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Aithne

[MAK]

The angels should have ended at the by S6 (very latest by S7, if you had to give Castiel a redemption arc). After S6, any angel should have been a MOTW like a demon. Killing off Castiel would not have harmed the story one bit after S6/S7. (And I actually like the character Castiel. I feel like they just threw away all that he was.) Angels as random one-off supernatural monsters would have been a better way to go.

IMO, all of the storylines, Leviathan, Purgatory, the Trials, even Gadreel, would have worked without Castiel and rest of the host. Like, for instance, Gadreel, they could bring in different individual angels if needed. No need to take part in angelic "civil war."

[Scout Finch]

Although Jared would vehemently disagree with me, I wish Katie Cassidy had stayed. I'm on S3 of my re-watch, and once again thinking how awesome her Ruby was. No contest, hers was the best!

[7kstar]

3 hours ago, Scout Finch said:

Although Jared would vehemently disagree with me, I wish Katie Cassidy had stayed. I'm on S3 of my re-watch, and once again thinking how awesome her Ruby was. No contest, hers was the best!

I know there are fans that didn't like Katie Cassidy and I did enjoy her on the Green Arrow, but I agree.  As far as Ruby goes, I thought she was a stronger actress.

There are so many I wish they hadn't on this show.  They didn't know what to do with some characters, and they tried to get rid of Cas, but the fans wanted him back, so they caved.

I'm still not ready to do a binge watch on this show. But I know when I do, I'll skip through many of the shows for because if I hated it the first time around...well, no reason to watch it again.

[roamyn]

20 hours ago, 7kstar said:

I know there are fans that didn't like Katie Cassidy and I did enjoy her on the Green Arrow, but I agree.  As far as Ruby goes, I thought she was a stronger actress.

That’s because Gen can’t act.  She’s beautiful and great as an influencer, and she & Jared have tremendous chemistry on SPN, but she’s a horrible horrible actress.  Katie is a pretty good actress, and I enjoy her whenever I see her perform.

[Scout Finch]

On 1/22/2022 at 10:22 PM, roamyn said:

That’s because Gen can’t act.  She’s beautiful and great as an influencer, and she & Jared have tremendous chemistry on SPN, but she’s a horrible horrible actress.  Katie is a pretty good actress, and I enjoy her whenever I see her perform.

See, I don't even think she's beautiful, definitely not in league with Katie. She's attractive but there's a rough/masculine angle somewhere in her face. How do you pronounce Jensen's wife's name? Is it just some sort of 'creative' spelling of Danielle or actually the way it looks (rhyming with "dan-real")?

Edited January 25, 2022 by Scout Finch

[gonzosgirrl]

13 minutes ago, Scout Finch said:

See, I don't even think she's beautiful, definitely not in league with Katie. She's attractive but there's a rough/masculine angle in her face, which I think I've narrowed down to being her jawline. How do you pronounce Jensen's wife's name? Is it just some sort of 'creative' spelling of Danielle or actually the way it looks (rhyming with "dan-real")?

He seems to most often pronounce it like: de kneel, or da-kneel, definitely not Danielle (there's no 'i').

I've always been on the Katie train, even before I came to have an opinion on the Padaleckis. In fact I wasn't aware that Gen was his girlfriend/wife until after I got online (around mid season 10). She's just not a good actress.

[tessathereaper]

Yes it's "duhkneel" basically.  It's a street in New Orleans her mom used to drive past on the way to work while she was pregnant with her apparently.  She's actually named after her grandmother or great grandmother, her real first name is Elta and Danneel is her middle name.

Katie grew on me even while Season 3 was airing. I can't remember which episode it was that she revealed demons were corrupted human souls for the first time, was it 3.03?  But that was where I was like "OK she's really pretty good and fits with this show" so after that I was pretty good with her.

[Scout Finch]

15 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

He seems to most often pronounce it like: de kneel, or da-kneel, definitely not Danielle (there's no 'i').

I've always been on the Katie train, even before I came to have an opinion on the Padaleckis. In fact I wasn't aware that Gen was his girlfriend/wife until after I got online (around mid season 10). She's just not a good actress.

Oh, duh, forgot there wasn't an 'n.' I vaguely recall wondering if it rhymed with Tennille, i.e. The Captain & Tennille (I am so old that when I was 10 "Love Will Keep Us Together" was my summer boyfriend's and my song!).

I never watched the show until last year when I binged S1-14 on Netflix. It was so cool to keep realizing how many more seasons I had left as I went along! I didn't know anything either about Jared and Jensen's wives or that they were on the show until well after I'd seen their episodes.

Just about to start the S4 discs--CASTIEL! While Jensen is definitely handsome he runs a close second to Misha.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Scout Finch

[Scout Finch]

8 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

Katie grew on me even while Season 3 was airing. I can't remember which episode it was that she revealed demons were corrupted human souls for the first time, was it 3.03?  But that was where I was like "OK she's really pretty good and fits with this show" so after that I was pretty good with her.

Loved her but couldn't stand Bella!

[gonzosgirrl]

28 minutes ago, Scout Finch said:

Just about to start the S4 discs--CASTIEL! While Jensen is definitely handsome he runs a close second to Misha.

Sorry about your vision problems 😛

I kid, of course. It's all subjective. 

 

[Scout Finch]

13 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Sorry about your vision problems 😛

I kid, of course. It's all subjective. 

 

Just realized his picture is your icon, LOL! Jared does nothing for me.

[tessathereaper]

46 minutes ago, Scout Finch said:

Loved her but couldn't stand Bella!

Same and Lauren Cohen is a fine actress but the character was just a bad fit for the show.

[Aithne]

11 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

Same and Lauren Cohen is a fine actress but the character was just a bad fit for the show.

They didn't seem to know what to do with her. Her level of villainy fluctuated with every ep, they didn't introduce her tragic backstory until her time on the show was already over, they seemed to want a flirtation with Dean in Red Sky at Morning but had her shoot Sam in her first ep, guaranteeing he'd never go for it. 

The idea of someone profiting off knowledge of the supernatural wasn't a bad one, but they should've had a clear idea who they wanted her to be and stuck with it. 

[gonzosgirrl]

8 minutes ago, Aithne said:

they seemed to want a flirtation with Dean in Red Sky at Morning but had her shoot Sam in her first ep, guaranteeing he'd never go for it. 

And she stole all his winning scratch tickets. LOL.