All Episodes Talk: Saving People, Hunting Things

[Smad]

Don't know where else to put this but I have a question. Why did they never do a musical episode on this show? The 200th episode doesn't count since it wasn't the cast but a high school play. But not only is this a show dealing with the supernatural (so a musical is kind of a requirement) but their entire cast (with very few exceptions) is filled with excellent singers. It's a literal waste not to do a musical.

[Terese]

5 minutes ago, Smad said:

Don't know where else to put this but I have a question. Why did they never do a musical episode on this show? The 200th episode doesn't count since it wasn't the cast but a high school play. But not only is this a show dealing with the supernatural (so a musical is kind of a requirement) but their entire cast (with very few exceptions) is filled with excellent singers. It's a literal waste not to do a musical.

Is this a trick question?

[trudysmom]

I don't think it's a trick question, but my opinion is Badd can't write a grocery list so trusting him to come up with musical that would do it justice is laughable. That is would also (probably) highlight Jensen's singing more than Jared, is another reason not to do it, can't have him taking the spotlight or sucking all the air from the room or whatever nasty thing that was said about him.  "He's too talented, too handsome!"   Boy Wonder is 'better at pretty much everything' (blech) but he can't sing.  Sorry, I'm feeling particularly bitchy lately.  

[Smad]

58 minutes ago, Terese said:

Is this a trick question?

Huh?

13 minutes ago, trudysmom said:

I don't think it's a trick question, but my opinion is Badd can't write a grocery list so trusting him to come up with musical that would do it justice is laughable. That is would also (probably) highlight Jensen's singing more than Jared, is another reason not to do it, can't have him taking the spotlight or sucking all the air from the room or whatever nasty thing that was said about him.  "He's too talented, too handsome!"   Boy Wonder is 'better at pretty much everything' (blech) but he can't sing.  Sorry, I'm feeling particularly bitchy lately.  

It didn't have to happen during the Dabb years. This show is after all 15 Seasons long. But there have been many supernatural beings that were on the show even that could have lead to a musical. Gabriel being the obvious one. Or Amara with her naivete about humanity. Or even God. Maybe even Jesse the Anti-Christ. Any reality distorting being really. Or they could have invented one. It's just bonkers to me that in 15 Seasons of a supernatural show stacked with excellent singers, that there wasn't a musical episode.

[Aeryn13]

They also never did a brother body swap episode. I think that and a musical might be the biggest tropes actually never done on the show. Oh, and possibly a noir episode. Every other show seems to do that.

Why? No idea. I think at least a musical might have happened somewhere down the line if the show went on.

I think a noir one might have fit best with the style of SPN. A musical could be difficult because their music of choice is rather specific. And IMO a musical would have to be done in that vein. Maybe that would have been more costly than other shows?

Not too sorry about it as I honestly find most shows attempt at musical eps godawaful.

[Smad]

56 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Not too sorry about it as I honestly find most shows attempt at musical eps godawaful.

I'm not too sorry about it either as I can't think of a musical episode in a show that actually wow-ed me. I was just wondering about it because for some reason I was watching some of the convention karaoke earlier. And seeing all of those guys singing made me think of it.

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think a noir one might have fit best with the style of SPN.

Ohh now that is something that would have totally worked on this show.

[Pondlass1]

I would’ve liked a few more episodes along the lines of Baby. Not about the Impala per se... but a peep into the brothers’ day to day lives like we got in that awesome episode. 
Shopping for flannel,  getting a haircut, up close and personal mundane day to day type stuff. It could’ve been mixed in with an MOTW similar to Baby. I’ll always smile at Dean ironing Sam’s shirts with beer... 

I don’t know about a musical episode. IMO it worked for Buffy. But none of them could actually sing so an even playground. Kripke could’ve maybe done it in the early years, but then folk might’ve accused him of copying Buffy.  It would be impossible in the Dabb years since the character of Dean mustn’t shine in any way. (I don’t know how they managed the Jensen/Christian scenes. Dabb must’ve been daydreaming about his spinoff when they were filmed. And the tap dancing... how’d that slip by?)

By noir do you mean Sin City type of thing?  I would’ve loved that. Under Dabb it’s all bright sunshine and never ending exposition.

 

[Aeryn13]

16 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

I would’ve liked a few more episodes along the lines of Baby. Not about the Impala per se... but a peep into the brothers’ day to day lives like we got in that awesome episode. 
Shopping for flannel,  getting a haircut, up close and personal mundane day to day type stuff. It could’ve been mixed in with an MOTW similar to Baby. I’ll always smile at Dean ironing Sam’s shirts with beer... 

I don’t know about a musical episode. IMO it worked for Buffy. But none of them could actually sing so an even playground. Kripke could’ve maybe done it in the early years, but then folk might’ve accused him of copying Buffy.  It would be impossible in the Dabb years since the character of Dean mustn’t shine in any way. (I don’t know how they managed the Jensen/Christian scenes. Dabb must’ve been daydreaming about his spinoff when they were filmed. And the tap dancing... how’d that slip by?)

By noir do you mean Sin City type of thing?  I would’ve loved that. Under Dabb it’s all bright sunshine and never ending exposition.

 

Anthony Head and James Marsters could sing in Buffy so it wasn`t really an even playground there either. I think on nearly every show you will find one actor who can sing.

Sin City is not really something I like very much but it is noir. Most shows actually try to do some version of "Maltese Falcon" as their Noir episode for whatever reason. Fringe had the infamous Brown Betty. Castle had one, too, as far as I can remember. Lucifer recently had a noir. Even Legacies had one last Season-

    

[Smad]

57 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

I don’t know about a musical episode. IMO it worked for Buffy. But none of them could actually sing so an even playground. Kripke could’ve maybe done it in the early years, but then folk might’ve accused him of copying Buffy.

It's not really copying Buffy. Many shows, even non sci-fi/fantasy/supernatural, have done a musical episode. And Buffy wasn't even the first show who did it either. I'm also one of the few people who hated Buffy's musical episode because the story was stupid and everything sooooo melodramatic to be downright satire.

3 of the people on Buffy in that episode could actually sing: Head, Marsters and Benson. Sure the non-singers outweighed the ones who could sing but with SPN that would be the opposite. On SPN the pool of which characters to pick for such an episode is gigantic.

I would mainly want to see a Noir episode because I think Jensen would kill it in the looks and acting department.

[FlickChick]

1 hour ago, Smad said:

I would mainly want to see a Noir episode because I think Jensen would kill it in the looks and acting department.

Well, we did get the fabulous "Monster Movie" in black and white no less. Jensen looked even more gorgeous than usual in that one. I think that's about as noir as we're ever going to get on this show considering it only has five non-finale episodes left. 

[Terese]

6 hours ago, trudysmom said:

I don't think it's a trick question, but my opinion is Badd can't write a grocery list so trusting him to come up with musical that would do it justice is laughable. That is would also (probably) highlight Jensen's singing more than Jared, is another reason not to do it, can't have him taking the spotlight or sucking all the air from the room or whatever nasty thing that was said about him.  "He's too talented, too handsome!"   Boy Wonder is 'better at pretty much everything' (blech) but he can't sing.  Sorry, I'm feeling particularly bitchy lately.  

Are writters and producers jealous of looks and talent? I am very much under the impression that is what the film industry is always on the look out for to cast.

[Terese]

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Anthony Head and James Marsters could sing in Buffy so it wasn`t really an even playground there either. I think on nearly every show you will find one actor who can sing.

Sin City is not really something I like very much but it is noir. Most shows actually try to do some version of "Maltese Falcon" as their Noir episode for whatever reason. Fringe had the infamous Brown Betty. Castle had one, too, as far as I can remember. Lucifer recently had a noir. Even Legacies had one last Season-

    

A Most Holy Man was Noir. The Skull of St Peter was the quest.The double crossing women, who set up every one and played them throughout. The fatman and his chicanery. Very Maltese Falcon.

[Aeryn13]

4 minutes ago, Terese said:

A Most Holy Man was Noir. The Skull of St Peter was the quest.The double crossing women, who set up every one and played them throughout. The fatman and his chicanery. Very Maltese Falcon.

But it had more of a parody vibe of gangster movies and it wasn`t in black and white (maybe they didn`t want to repeat b & w after Monster Movie) and the latter is essential for a true noir setting. 

While I love Monster Movie, it also was a comedy so again not really noir. 

So the show never truly did an ep like that. Probably better because every other showrunner could have done something with the concept but not Badd.   

[Terese]

15 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

But it had more of a parody vibe of gangster movies and it wasn`t in black and white (maybe they didn`t want to repeat b & w after Monster Movie) and the latter is essential for a true noir setting. 

While I love Monster Movie, it also was a comedy so again not really noir. 

So the show never truly did an ep like that. Probably better because every other showrunner could have done something with the concept but not Badd.   

A Monster Movie was great. So, true; as you say; filming A Most Holy Man in black and white would have added that needed nuance.

That reminds me of something that has been bothering me for a few seasons, since 12. What I call visual texture is off or non-existent. It doesn't have that visual depth, anymore. I know nothing about filmmaking, or what that would be called. It's mood or something is visually off and off-putting.

[Lemuria]

5 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

I’ll always smile at Dean ironing Sam’s shirts with beer...

I remember thinking (when Sam got all annoyed and "How many times did I tell you to stop ironing my shirts with beer"--or words to that effect), "Gee, Sam, maybe this wouldn't happen if you--oh, I don't know--ironed your own d*!n shirts.  I'm just saying."

[tennisgurl]

Now that its Halloween season again, its time for another spooky re-watch of some of my favorite spookiest episodes! I love ghost episodes so of course I have to watch Provence, Asylum, Playthings, and one of my all time favorites, Hollywood Babylon, which I usually watch every Halloween, but this year I think I will expand more. Next on my list is Faith, then maybe Born Under a Bad Sign, and then of course Monster Movie, and then I might jump ahead? I should just compile a list of Most Halloween-y episodes for my yearly viewing convenience. 

[trudysmom]

On 9/26/2020 at 3:36 PM, Terese said:

Are writters and producers jealous of looks and talent? I am very much under the impression that is what the film industry is always on the look out for to cast.

Yes, usually.  But Jensen was there before Badd.  When he came along he actively undermined Dean, or allowed the character to be marginalized.  I can't help but think it has alot to do with jealousy.  I could be wrong.  But my opinion, such as it its.

[Terese]

37 minutes ago, trudysmom said:

Yes, usually.  But Jensen was there before Badd.  When he came along he actively undermined Dean, or allowed the character to be marginalized.  I can't help but think it has alot to do with jealousy.  I could be wrong.  But my opinion, such as it its.

Clearly there is conflict  among cast and Dabb. I'm thinking it was exacerbated when Dabb was informed by the CW President, privately, then publicly that, "There will be no spinoffs, ever. People watch this genre for Sam and Dean." This statement was made in the Spring of 2018. Both Sam and Sean have been sidelined, degraded and diminished ever since. As I just posted elsewhere, Chuck as the meta writer of the show asked in The Trap, "You still think you are the hero of this story?" Directed at the Winchesters and a message to the audience, then reinforced with The Heroes Journey. They aren't the heroes anymore and comparatively few are watching. This season is about the writers.

[bethy]

Y’all. I’m doing a belated (given the coming of the final episodes in the next few weeks) rewatch of Supernatural - those episodes that give me joy - and I just got to Faith. I just have to note that the scenes in the revival tent are some of my favorite in the whole series. I LOVE the exchanges between Dean and Roy: Dean’s snarkiness then embarrassment and deflection; Roy’s gentleness and humor; Sam’s determination and hope. It was just so well done, all the way around.
 

“I didn’t pick you, Dean, the Lord did.”

[Terese]

42 minutes ago, bethy said:

Y’all. I’m doing a belated (given the coming of the final episodes in the next few weeks) rewatch of Supernatural - those episodes that give me joy - and I just got to Faith. I just have to note that the scenes in the revival tent are some of my favorite in the whole series. I LOVE the exchanges between Dean and Roy: Dean’s snarkiness then embarrassment and deflection; Roy’s gentleness and humor; Sam’s determination and hope. It was just so well done, all the way around.
 

“I didn’t pick you, Dean, the Lord did.”

Faith was the first episode that I saw, when channel surfing 15 years ago. It was those things you highlighted that entranced me. 

[DeeDee79]

1 hour ago, bethy said:

Y’all. I’m doing a belated (given the coming of the final episodes in the next few weeks) rewatch of Supernatural - those episodes that give me joy - and I just got to Faith. I just have to note that the scenes in the revival tent are some of my favorite in the whole series. I LOVE the exchanges between Dean and Roy: Dean’s snarkiness then embarrassment and deflection; Roy’s gentleness and humor; Sam’s determination and hope. It was just so well done, all the way around.
 

“I didn’t pick you, Dean, the Lord did.”

I love how this exchange: 

ROY
Well, like I said before, the Lord guides me. I looked into your heart, and you just stood out from all the rest.
 

DEAN
What did you see in my heart?
 

ROY
A young man with an important purpose. A job to do. And it isn't finished. (DEAN looks slightly surprised.)

Ties into Dean the Righteous Man years later. Ah, the good old days! *sobs*

[bethy]

9 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

I love how this exchange: 

ROY
Well, like I said before, the Lord guides me. I looked into your heart, and you just stood out from all the rest.
 

DEAN
What did you see in my heart?
 

ROY
A young man with an important purpose. A job to do. And it isn't finished. (DEAN looks slightly surprised.)

Ties into Dean the Righteous Man years later. Ah, the good old days! *sobs*

Yes! And Dean looks so uncertain but hopeful when he asks the question. He’s so sure he didn’t deserve to be saved. 

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, bethy said:

Yes! And Dean looks so uncertain but hopeful when he asks the question. He’s so sure he didn’t deserve to be saved. 

And I'll always believe there was at least a moment there where he didn't want to fight the Reaper. *ugly cry* His guilt and sorrow over Laila was palpable.

[catrox14]

From the "Gimme Shelter" thread. Relating to the Amara discussion, here is the clip of the scene in question

 

[DeeDee79]

Re: @shoetingstar's post: 

Quote

 

I think in general some folks have been too hard on Cassie, she was a great team with the brothers. By this episode the audience saw how Heroic Dean was. Cassie did not have that luxury when he told her the truth. She had to go on his word about something she didn't know about. And he was leaving. Lisa got to see first hand what Dean was about when he saved her son. 

Ooooh, I liked Jamie too. I like Jo too, I wish she had been older though. 

 

I agree with this. Even though I didn't care much for Route 666 I did think that Dean and Cassie had great chemistry. I also don't think that she was blowing him off at the end like a lot of people do. At that point their priorities are clearly pointed in different directions and a relationship isn't plausible but I feel that she was dismissive of their overall situation not of Dean himself. With Lisa I enjoyed seeing someone that clearly cared about Dean but I didn't buy him being in love with someone that he spent a weekend with that he only referred to as being "bendy". I actually didn't buy that he longed for her in the scene from Dream A Little Dream; it kind of came out of left field for me. I just didn't see the chemistry between them that others did but I did like his relationship with Ben. To be honest besides Cassie I saw more chemistry with Jo and Donna than with Lisa. 

[shoetingstar]

3 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Re: @shoetingstar's post: 

I agree with this. Even though I didn't care much for Route 666 I did think that Dean and Cassie had great chemistry. I also don't think that she was blowing him off at the end like a lot of people do. At that point their priorities are clearly pointed in different directions and a relationship isn't plausible but I feel that she was dismissive of their overall situation not of Dean himself. With Lisa I enjoyed seeing someone that clearly cared about Dean but I didn't buy him being in love with someone that he spent a weekend with that he only referred to as being "bendy". I actually didn't buy that he longed for her in the scene from Dream A Little Dream; it kind of came out of left field for me. I just didn't see the chemistry between them that others did but I did like his relationship with Ben. To be honest besides Cassie I saw more chemistry with Jo and Donna than with Lisa. 

I'm definitely in agreement with all of this! It was nice to see one accepting of Dean. But she was exposed to Dean's hunter life in very different circumstance than Cassie. Dean seemed attracted to lisa AND BEN vs. wow I'm in love with this woman, named Lisa. 

[DeeDee79]

10 minutes ago, shoetingstar said:

I'm definitely in agreement with all of this! It was nice to see one accepting of Dean. But she was exposed to Dean's hunter life in very different circumstance than Cassie. Dean seemed attracted to lisa AND BEN vs. wow I'm in love with this woman, named Lisa. 

Exactly!

[ahrtee]

13 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

Re: @shoetingstar's post: 

I agree with this. Even though I didn't care much for Route 666 I did think that Dean and Cassie had great chemistry. I also don't think that she was blowing him off at the end like a lot of people do. At that point their priorities are clearly pointed in different directions and a relationship isn't plausible but I feel that she was dismissive of their overall situation not of Dean himself. With Lisa I enjoyed seeing someone that clearly cared about Dean but I didn't buy him being in love with someone that he spent a weekend with that he only referred to as being "bendy". I actually didn't buy that he longed for her in the scene from Dream A Little Dream; it kind of came out of left field for me. I just didn't see the chemistry between them that others did but I did like his relationship with Ben. To be honest besides Cassie I saw more chemistry with Jo and Donna than with Lisa. 

 

13 hours ago, shoetingstar said:

I'm definitely in agreement with all of this! It was nice to see one accepting of Dean. But she was exposed to Dean's hunter life in very different circumstance than Cassie. Dean seemed attracted to lisa AND BEN vs. wow I'm in love with this woman, named Lisa. 

Re: Cassie vs. Lisa, IA with both of these posts regarding Cassie, though I think Lisa was a bit more complicated. (This is probably going to be long, so either strap in or head on down to the TL: DR section below.)

Think of the timing.  Dean met both Lisa and Cassie pre-series, when everything was going well with the family and he still believed that hunting was the best thing he could be doing.  FF to the next time they met:  season 1 Dean was still "really involved in his dad's work" and wasn't about to give it up.  Cassie, in the meanwhile, had a pretty good life of her own, and, while they had good sexual chemistry, I can't really see them having any kind of meaningful relationship within the hunting sphere, and Dean wasn't ready to give it up.  So Cassie really *was* being realistic:  that as long as Dean still wanted to keep hunting, she couldn't see any future with them.  (Maybe his "you never know" might mean to him that someday he might give up hunting and then he'd come back to her.) 

TBH, I don't see anything wrong with Cassie's rejection of being involved in the hunting life, even on the sidelines.  Facing something that upends your world view is uncomfortable for most people, and even among the people the boys saved, it's only a very few (who did have "hero" tendencies like Henriksen) who had their eyes opened and wanted to help; the rest basically wanted to forget about it and go back to their old lives.  

It's even worse when someone you love is going out to face danger/possible death on a regular basis.  There are many spouses of military, fire fighters, police, etc. who understand and either outright support or at least accept the possibilities of sudden death; but there are others who honestly can't live with that kind of uncertainty (full disclosure:  I'm one of the latter.)    

Both Cassie and Lisa, in their original times with Dean, didn't know about that dangerous side of his life (and Cassie refused to even believe it, thinking instead that he was lying to get away from her.)  When she called him in Route 666, it was not quite believing but needing help so badly that she was willing to try.  But even when it was proved that yes, he wasn't insane or lying, she just wanted to forget about things that go bump in the night, and Dean understood that.

Dean came back to Lisa in season 3, not to help with a case but because he wanted to make a "greatest hits" stop with someone he'd remembered fondly.  But once he saw her soccer-mom life and Ben, he started thinking about what he was about to lose/had missed out on his life--a wife, son, "normal" things that I think he'd always thought would happen some vague time in the future (thus his words to Cassie at the end of the ep.)  He saw that ready-made family as the ideal he knew he'd never get, which is why he fantasized about it (and went back to Lisa to promise she and Ben would be taken care of when once again facing death.)  She also found out about his alternate life and didn't reject it out of hand the way Cassie had, though she didn't necessary embrace it.

The next thing to remember:  Dean didn't go to Lisa after Swan Song because he wanted a family of his own.  *He went because he'd promised Sam.*  In 6.1, he even told Sam that he only went because he'd promised, and he was a mess--drank too much, was completely screwed up, and didn't know why Lisa put up with him.  

IMO, there were several reasons:  one, Dean *was* a mess, and Lisa obviously had strong maternal instincts (we can see how she behaved with/protected Ben.)    Two, Dean had saved Ben already and so she was grateful and wanted to help.  Three:  it appeared that he had given up hunting and so wasn't going to bring any danger to the house or himself, and she did have feelings towards him.  And then he stayed, settled down and in, and bonded with Ben.  He was a solid, good-looking guy with a normal job (despite a few quirks like paranoia towards strange things) who was a wonderful role model for Ben (which she herself said).  And so they settled in together, not necessarily True Love but comfort and mutual benefit (and probably great sex).  And that might have been enough except that Sam came back, and all of a sudden Dean was a hunter again.  Lisa, I think, was more open to change than Cassie (she had already moved to three different houses in between season 3 and 6) and so was willing to try to live with Dean's lifestyle, but not once it began to threaten Ben.  

TL:DR:  Both Cassie and Lisa were perfect for the young Dean who just wanted good sex with someone interesting (even his one-night stands were ones he chose for a reason, not just that they were there and available.)  But neither one could handle his hunter lifestyle.  Cassie knew that even in the beginning and was willing to cut things off before they got too painful; Lisa tried to make it work but ultimately didn't want to endanger her son.  And Dean mostly dreamed of an ideal life: safe, normal and with a legacy to leave behind rather than "true love" with either of them.  Maybe, given time and acceptance/support for hunting (rather than a passive, "if you must, then come home in one piece") or if he truly gave up hunting for himself, not because he was forced to, he could have lived happily ever after with either of them.  

ETA: That's why he was so much more comfortable with women like Jo, Donna, Jody or Ellen:  because they appreciated who he was and didn't expect him to change or be something else.

Edited October 29, 2020 by ahrtee
Took out extra word

[Katy M]

On 10/29/2020 at 11:58 AM, ahrtee said:

TBH, I don't see anything wrong with Cassie's rejection of being involved in the hunting life, even on the sidelines.  Facing something that upends your world view is uncomfortable for most people, 

I don't either, I just thought it was weird when only the day before she had made the big speech about how if people wanted something they would work it out. No excuses.  The whole thing would have worked so much better for me if they had omitted that line.  It just made it seem like she did a hard turn around for no reason.

[tessathereaper]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I don't either, I just thought it was weird when only the day before she had made the big speech about how if people wanted something they would work it out. No excuses.  The whole thing would have worked so much better for me if they had omitted that line.  It just made it seem like she did a hard turn around for no reason.

In that big speech, which sounded more like just talking to me, she said that fighting and sex they were good at, the rest not so much and also, and, I think this is the biggy, that maybe SHE was the one looking for an excuse to walk away.  So it sounds like they were attracted to each other, the sex was good but they fought a lot, enough that she could admit maybe she partly used what he told her as an excuse to get out of it herself.  So I think that's what she meant by no more excuses, don't look for other reasons for why it works or doesn't work, EITHER of them.  Seems to me she realized she didn't particularly want it enough to put in the sort of effort necessary for it to work out(if it even could, given all the fighting) and so she wasn't making any excuses.

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by tessathereaper

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

In that big speech, which sounded more like just talking to me, she said that fighting and sex they were good at, the rest not so much and also, and, I think this is the biggy, that maybe SHE was the one looking for an excuse to walk away.  So it sounds like they were attracted to each other, the sex was good but they fought a lot, enough that she could admit maybe she partly used what he told her as an excuse to get out of it herself.  So I think that's what she meant by no more excuses, don't look for other reasons for why it works or doesn't work, EITHER of them.  Seems to me she realized she didn't particularly want it enough to put in the sort of effort necessary for it to work out and so she wasn't making any excuses.

 

Yes, I was exagerrating when I called it a big speech.  but, I still think the whole thing would have worked better if they had just ended the conversation before she said the bit about working it out and no excuses.  JMO.

[shoetingstar]

6 hours ago, Katy M said:

Yes, I was exagerrating when I called it a big speech.  but, I still think the whole thing would have worked better if they had just ended the conversation before she said the bit about working it out and no excuses.  JMO.

I totally get what you're saying and I agree.  This is supposed be an earlier draft of the script. I wish they had kept this bit in. It may have calmed down the "she's flaky" criticism.

6 hours ago, tessathereaper said:

In that big speech, which sounded more like just talking to me, she said that fighting and sex they were good at, the rest not so much and also, and, I think this is the biggy, that maybe SHE was the one looking for an excuse to walk away.  So it sounds like they were attracted to each other, the sex was good but they fought a lot, enough that she could admit maybe she partly used what he told her as an excuse to get out of it herself.  So I think that's what she meant by no more excuses, don't look for other reasons for why it works or doesn't work, EITHER of them.  Seems to me she realized she didn't particularly want it enough to put in the sort of effort necessary for it to work out(if it even could, given all the fighting) and so she wasn't making any excuses.

 

I can get behind this interpretation! I always imagined that they had a strong attraction, and it was supposed just be a casual thing but then they somehow got to know each other and grew feelings for each other. But Dean was this "bad boy" who didn't live in her area and who was leaving, so she got scared and decided to protect herself and break up with him 1st. I think Cassie might be a Leo lol. 

Ultimately, they were going to always say goodbye because of the story the show had to tell. The point of Cassie was to show us (and Sam) more about Dean (the previous episode Faith did a good job as well). That even though Sam saw him as Dad's little soldier, Dean wanted more at one point and lost her/the potential because of the Hunting lifestyle. That he wasn't only a one-night stand guy. Sam got to see more of his vulnerability, and what they did have in common. I think the type of girl he chose to open up to was telling as well: Yes, beautiful and hot. But fearless, smart and mission-driven. Bonus: Sam respected her and they all worked well together.

Edited November 3, 2020 by shoetingstar

[Smad]

Just thinking about the waste of space that was Nougat for 3 years makes me think of missed opportunities. Why not bring Adam back full time instead of inventing Jack? Adam would be actual family that, similar to Mary, was snatched from the boys before they really knew him. We could have had a family story about the 3 brothers getting to know each other. Their conflict over how things ended in S5 but also about John and how differently he treated them. And since Mary was also on the show at that time, it would have given her a family storyline as well (if they persist on not giving her one with her actual sons that is). She would have to come to grips with John having a child with another woman and also how differently he treated his sons. This would then also have paid forward for when they brought John back for one episode.

[gonzosgirrl]

With two episodes remaining, I don't foresee changing my personal viewpoint that the series ended with garden scene 11x23, when Chuck and Amara disappear. (For head-canon purposes, Amara's gift to Dean was an unlimited lifetime gift card to Biggerson's.) In a discussion with a friend I posited there were maybe five episodes of seasons 12-15 that I would watch again, and even those I would watch in a vacuum because so much of what was good about them was undone in later episodes. Turns out there are seven, but two of them for only very specific scenes.

12.11 Regarding Dean

*12.23 All Along The Watchtower -Only because it is Crowley's final episode and I loved his scenes

13.05 Advanced Thanotology

13.16 Scoobynatural

14.10 Nihilism

*15.04 Atomic Monsters  -For the opening sequence, and Dean's neverending ability to find joy in the smallest things. (ETA: I was confusing this with Mint Condition, as mentioned by DeeDee below)

15.07 Last Call

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by gonzosgirrl

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

With two episodes remaining, I don't foresee changing my personal viewpoint that the series ended with garden scene 11x23, when Chuck and Amara disappear. (For head-canon purposes, Amara's gift to Dean was an unlimited lifetime gift card to Biggerson's.) In a discussion with a friend I posited there were maybe five episodes of seasons 12-15 that I would watch again, and even those I would watch in a vacuum because so much of what was good about them was undone in later episodes. Turns out there are seven, but two of them for only very specific scenes.

12.11 Regarding Dean

*12.23 All Along The Watchtower -Only because it is Crowley's final episode and I loved his scenes

13.05 Advanced Thanotology

13.16 Scoobynatural

14.10 Nihilism

*15.04 Atomic Monsters  -For the opening sequence, and Dean's neverending ability to find joy in the smallest things

15.07 Last Call

 

I would put Mint Condition up there only for Dean's glee in this scene:

 

[Aeryn13]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

With two episodes remaining, I don't foresee changing my personal viewpoint that the series ended with garden scene 11x23, when Chuck and Amara disappear. (For head-canon purposes, Amara's gift to Dean was an unlimited lifetime gift card to Biggerson's.) In a discussion with a friend I posited there were maybe five episodes of seasons 12-15 that I would watch again, and even those I would watch in a vacuum because so much of what was good about them was undone in later episodes. Turns out there are seven, but two of them for only very specific scenes.

12.11 Regarding Dean

*12.23 All Along The Watchtower -Only because it is Crowley's final episode and I loved his scenes

13.05 Advanced Thanotology

13.16 Scoobynatural

14.10 Nihilism

*15.04 Atomic Monsters  -For the opening sequence, and Dean's neverending ability to find joy in the smallest things

15.07 Last Call

 

I will second this list on account of me being able to remember what happened in those episodes.

 

[gonzosgirrl]

36 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I would put Mint Condition up there only for Dean's glee in this scene:

 

Ha! I think I confused this scene as being in Atomic Monsters (which is why I mentioned the joy thing). I'll still leave it on my list for the opening sequence, but I'd have to add this one (for the same reason you mentioned).

[ahrtee]

39 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I will second this list on account of me being able to remember what happened in those episodes.

 

The monster scenes in Advanced Thanatology were too creepy for me, but I did love Dean in Death's library.  

There are very few complete episodes I would list at all (except probably Nihilism and Regarding Dean) but there were quite a few scenes I'd add, like the boys breaking out of the bunker in Who We Were, and the scenes with Dean and Mary in All Along the Watchtower (hated the rest of it).  And mostly, the scenes of Dean building the Malak Box in Damaged Goods, before it turned into a Mary/Luci crapfest.  Not to mention Dean dancing in....what was it?  The Heroes' Journey?  

(Yes, I really can't remember titles of episodes anymore, much less what happened in them, and don't really care enough to try to figure them out.)  

 

[DeeDee79]

21 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

The monster scenes in Advanced Thanatology were too creepy for me, but I did love Dean in Death's library.  

There are very few complete episodes I would list at all (except probably Nihilism and Regarding Dean) but there were quite a few scenes I'd add, like the boys breaking out of the bunker in Who We Were, and the scenes with Dean and Mary in All Along the Watchtower (hated the rest of it).  And mostly, the scenes of Dean building the Malak Box in Damaged Goods, before it turned into a Mary/Luci crapfest.  Not to mention Dean dancing in....what was it?  The Heroes' Journey?  

(Yes, I really can't remember titles of episodes anymore, much less what happened in them, and don't really care enough to try to figure them out.)  

 

This is what our enjoyment of the show has been reduced to: mere handfuls of scenes as opposed to the entire episode as it was pre-Dabb. I think that's pretty sad. 😞

[FlickChick]

6 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

*15.04 Atomic Monsters  -For the opening sequence,

Don't forget the scene at the end that featured Jensen's "Sounds of Someday" with IMO, a sad task for Dean - beheading a teen who had been turned. That scene moved me. Great direction, don't you think? 😉

[ILoveReading]

For me:  Full eps

From 12- Asa Fox (can't remember the full title), and Regarding Dean.

13- None

14- Gods and Monsters

15- None so far. 

Eps that have stand out scenes. 

12- Dean in the cowboy outfit,  I liked Dean telling off Mary in The Raid and the the stuff with Ketch.  I liked Dean's scene with Mary. 

13- has to be the blandest of all.  The only real standout scene was in Death's library.  I like the Nightgown scene an Dean talking about why he loves Scooby Doo, but the over all ep had had too much Dean hitting on Daphne.  I liked the scene with Dean and Ketch in the AU.  I thought Jensen did a really good job after Sam died in that AU.  that is pretty much all I remember in s13. 

14- I liked Dean's enthusiasm in Mint Condition, and his scenes with the guest star.  The last two minute when Michael took him over.  The small scene in the malak box, the welding, the scene where Dean realizes Michael is gone. 

15- I liked the Dean/Ketch stuff in ep 2. The opening scene of Atomic monsters, and hearing Jensen's song,  Dean's interactions with the guest star (even if she turned out to be Lilith), the Dean half of Last call, the dancing, the scene with Billie telling Dean he defined chaos and Cas telling Dean how he sees him. 

Very slim pickings. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by ILoveReading

[bethy]

As much as I hate season 8 (and I hate it with the fire of a thousand suns), it has some good episodes. I caught As Time Goes By and Everybody Hates Hitler on TNT today and liked them both quite a bit. I mean, I liked them before, but not forced to watch or acknowledge the begninning of the season, I could actually enjoy the relationship between Dean and Sam in the episodes. And Sam warming his hands over the grave of the necromancer with Adam watching slack-jawed from the car will never not be awesome. 

[Castiels Cat]

On 10/7/2020 at 9:19 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

And I'll always believe there was at least a moment there where he didn't want to fight the Reaper. *ugly cry* His guilt and sorrow over Laila was palpable.

It's an uneven episode but the parts with Dean's crisis over his being saved and what it means for Layla is extremely poignant. Also the subtext in Roy choosing him. These were the highlights and elevate the episode. Dean almost dying so quickly was scary.

[shoetingstar]

On 11/10/2020 at 12:25 PM, DeeDee79 said:

I would put Mint Condition up there only for Dean's glee in this scene:

 

Confession - I finally finished season 14 (I take breaks from the show periodically since season 12 or so...) and it was painful. but THIS episode was a delight. I watched again already. I love seeing Dean happy and nerdy. I love him making a friend that into the same stuff. And finding out that Dean likes horror movies because "the bad guy always loses" was pretty poignant.

So cute!

[gonzosgirrl]

From the current episode thread:

7 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Hot take: Ellen and Jo had the best exit of any character on this entire show.

Yes. I say, minute-for-minute, Abandon All Hope is the single saddest episode of the series. And of all the characters brought back in the Badd era (starting with Mary), these are two that deserved resurrection. But I'm also glad they didn't, so Badd couldn't ruin them, too.

[Katy M]

7 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

From the current episode thread:

Yes. I say, minute-for-minute, Abandon All Hope is the single saddest episode of the series. And of all the characters brought back in the Badd era (starting with Mary), these are two that deserved resurrection. But I'm also glad they didn't, so Badd couldn't ruin them, too.

I think it's nice when characters don't come back from the dead:)  The reason that their exit was more effective than some others was because they stayed dead.  Yes, we saw each of them one more time, but Ellen was because of a time travel snafu, and Jo was a ghost brought back by a god for one episode. IMO, that didn't cheapen their deaths.  I'm not going to try to go through this in my head, but besides Crowley they may be the last recurring characters to die and stay dead.  Assuming we count AU versions.

[gonzosgirrl]

25 minutes ago, Binns said:

Hasn’t JP always said he thought Sam could easily be bi? Maybe I’m making that up. I was more interested that it was not definitely Eileen. That made me a little sad...does it mean she didn’t come back? 

Jared is, of course,  free to have his own perception of his character. I'll assume his heart is in the right place in helping members of the fandom feel seen.

I would challenge anyone, however, to point out to me anything in canon that supports Sam being bi, easily or any other way. 

[catrox14]

5 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Jared is, of course,  free to have his own perception of his character. I'll assume his heart is in the right place in helping members of the fandom feel seen.

I would challenge anyone, however, to point out to me anything in canon that supports Sam being bi, easily or any other way. 

Sam is for sure pansexual when it comes to getting with monsters and demons. LOL

[gonzosgirrl]

8 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Sam is for sure pansexual when it comes to getting with monsters and demons. LOL

You are not wrong there. 😄

[Binns]

26 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Sam is for sure pansexual when it comes to getting with monsters and demons. LOL

I legit snorted when I read this. His magic peen (lethal peen?) doesn’t discriminate!