All Episodes Talk: Saving People, Hunting Things

[Katy M]

7 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I actually more think that it is often forgotten that initially Rowena was a horrible, horrible person who casually murdered people to get a free lunch, or just because she didn't think they were "worthy" in her eyes.

And also, regardless of Sam's, Cas's and Crowley's role, Rowena is the one that actually killed Oscar.  For her own selfish reasons. I can't even understand how it could count as killing something you love, because how could you do that to someone you love.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I can't even understand how it could count as killing something you love, because how could you do that to someone you love.

It`s a pretty common trope. Last year Avengers Infinity War used it with its main villain Thanos. That`s what divides them from the heroes who usually balk at that thing. Ironically, Thanos won in Infinity War because he was the only one willing to make such a sacrifice whereas numerous heroes (and even anti-heroes) in the "give me what I want or I will hurt your favourite person" "never" "are you sure" "okay, screw the universe, don`t hurt them" situation all folded.   

[AwesomO4000]

8 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Not that I'm saying he should have, but he didn't really seem to be going along to me.  He tried to give Dean a beat down and only gave up when he had lost.  And then he pulled out the puppy dog eyes.  Dean didn't stand a chance.

Well, at first no, but Sam usually doesn't go along right away and wants to be convinced that it is the only way. And maybe that he'd lost - in that Dean actually did beat him up - let Sam decide that maybe Dean really did need to go with his plan.

Sam certainly seemed surprised that Dean had killed Death instead of him, so I think at that point - when Sam closed his eyes - he didn't have any expectation, but that Dean would go through with it. At least it looked like that to me, anyway.

[catrox14]

I was rewatching Long Distance Call and there was a line that Dean says to Not!John on the phone, that if there was any doubt that Dean sold his soul for Sam because of the Prime Directive, and not because Dean couldn't live without Sam, is completely obliterated with the following exchange:

Not!John says"How could you do it. How could you sell your soul" and Dean says, "I was looking after Sammy, like you always wanted me to".  HOLY SHIT.  I never remembered that until I just heard it.  It's unfortunate something so clear and important is in this not great episode.

[Casseiopeia]

How did I miss this in Bugs

[OrigamiNightmare]

Hi guys,

It's me again. Thank you guys so much for your insight and support. Your ideas and thoughts have been super helpful. I'm in the homestretch of my final paper. I was wondering what some of your thoughts were about what makes Supernatural stand out? For my final paper, I have to "pitch" Supernatural to a "network". I have to defend the show's significance to society.

[FlickChick]

My thoughts are: It's a horror story about two young adult brothers whose lives have been forever changed due to a supernatural entity killing their mother at a very young age. They travel the back roads of the US, trying to save people from a similar fate by killing the horrible things that go bump in the night. Because we witness the interactions of these brothers, the show rises above the average horror show by getting to know who they are as individuals with their fears, sorrows, and desires. Saving people, hunting things - the family business - and everyone loves a hero.

[Flyingwoman]

So I decided to start watching Supernatural this weekend. Could never quite get into it before but I thought it's ending this year, maybe I should see what the fuss was about. I don't think I'm gonna be able to marathon through 14 seasons, but I'm wondering if there's a list of essential eps or if there's a point after which it's not worth bothering?

[gonzosgirrl]

If you're only watching so you can watch the final season, then no, I don't think there can be a quintessential list. 1, you'll never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, did I mention ever, get any kind of consensus on that. 2, canon, especially after S11, is a joke and there is often little relation of what is happening now to what happened in the past. And 3, because of that, you'd need to watch 1-11 to have an appreciation for just how shitty 12-14 and please god, not 15 really are, and to understand why it stayed on all these years to begin with. It used to be a great (genre) show, and there are very few episodes in those first 11 seasons that aren't worth a watch.*

In my opinion, of course.

*ETA Bloodlines in S9 is pretty universally panned, but it was a backdoor spinoff and not a legitimate episode of Supernatural anyway.

Edited May 14, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[Lastcall]

6 hours ago, Flyingwoman said:

So I decided to start watching Supernatural this weekend. Could never quite get into it before but I thought it's ending this year, maybe I should see what the fuss was about. I don't think I'm gonna be able to marathon through 14 seasons, but I'm wondering if there's a list of essential eps or if there's a point after which it's not worth bothering?

You will save yourself a lot of heartache if you stop at the season 10 finale. Season 11 had bright spots but there was a showrunner change and the back half really started to suffer from the episode Red Meat on. If you find yourself really liking Dean 10x23 is your best stopping point. If you REALLY love Sam hold on through Season 8 and 9 then stop after 14x13  because the writers start beating him like he owes them money.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Lastcall

[Aeryn13]

2 hours ago, Flyingwoman said:

So I decided to start watching Supernatural this weekend. Could never quite get into it before but I thought it's ending this year, maybe I should see what the fuss was about. I don't think I'm gonna be able to marathon through 14 seasons, but I'm wondering if there's a list of essential eps or if there's a point after which it's not worth bothering?

Depends really. What have you watched so far and does any aspect appeal to you? One of the brothers or the interplay between both? Do you go for the emotional drama, the horror movie aspect, the road trip aspect, the old-fashioned Americana aspect, humour? Based on your likes, there could be suggestions for best episodes to watch. 

I personally think this show had three good Seasons that are worth watching:

Season 1, 2 and 4. Other Seasons have good episodes and the ones I named have weak episodes but those are the only entire Seasons I think are actually good.  

[gonzosgirrl]

57 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

You will save yourself a lot of heartache if you stop at the season 10 finale. Season 11 had bright spots but there was a showrunner change and the back half really started to suffer from the episode Red Meat on. If you find yourself really liking Dean 10x23 is your best stopping point. If you REALLY love Sam hold on through Season 8 and 9 then stop after 12x13 because the writers start beating him like he owes them money.

I stand corrected. I have no idea why I included S11. Maybe it was the memory of Baby. You are absolutely right though. Mea culpa.

Edited May 14, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[AwesomO4000]

3 hours ago, Flyingwoman said:

So I decided to start watching Supernatural this weekend. Could never quite get into it before but I thought it's ending this year, maybe I should see what the fuss was about. I don't think I'm gonna be able to marathon through 14 seasons, but I'm wondering if there's a list of essential eps or if there's a point after which it's not worth bothering?

I tend to agree with @gonzosgirrl - with one likely large caveat - which is a modification of @Lastcall's advice. I pretty much think that all of season 1-7 is worth watching. Season 4 was rough, and though I agree that in some ways the writing was still pretty good, in other ways it let me down, and overall it was more depressing than entertaining. I don't count it among my favorite seasons, however there were some excellent episodes.

As someone who does like Sam, if I could do it all over again, I would personally modify Lastcall's advice and say skip much of season 8 and 9. For me, Sam took as bad a beating character-wise in the first half of season 8 and the second half of season 9, especially, as he did in season 12 B. There are maybe a half dozen episodes worth rewatching for me during those two seasons if I'm generous. On the other hand, I enjoyed seasons 10 and 11 very much, including the second half of season 11 which includes a couple of my all time favorite episodes of the series.

For me seasons 12 - 14 are pretty much just there. I like the idea of the seasons, like the departure from the soapiness and manufactured drama of seasons 8 and 9, but there just isn't much there there anymore for me with the occasional really good episode here and there which are few and far between for me now.

41 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I stand corrected. I have no idea why I included S11. Maybe it was the memory of Baby. You are absolutely right though. Mea culpa.

Now doggone it! I was trying to mostly agree with you up there ; ) . Besides "Red Meat" - which I think is given too much focus anyway in terms of complaint, myself*** - was over 2/3 of the way through season 11, and after that episode the remaining ones even included both "The Chitters" (which I thought was a solid episode) and "Don't Call me Shurley" (which I thought was brilliant.) And the finale really wasn't that bad - not like say the season 8 finale (ugh!). So I tend not to dismiss all of season 11 for the equivalent of about 4 episodes. *shrug*

But I understand to each their own, and that that's just my opinion.

*** Since it's not like Dean didn't have both "Baby" and then "Regarding Dean" later on to make up for it. It was one bad episode. And compared to what happened to Sam at the end of this season with Nick - where any badassery implied by "Red Meat" was completely thrown out the window -  it's hardly anything to write home about, in my opinion. I look at it as Sam got an equivalent of Dean's "Live Free or Twihard" episode and dismiss it as such. And then "The Chitters" was right back to badass Dean and normalcy again.

Edited May 14, 2019 by AwesomO4000

[Lastcall]

6 hours ago, Flyingwoman said:

So I decided to start watching Supernatural this weekend. Could never quite get into it before but I thought it's ending this year, maybe I should see what the fuss was about. I don't think I'm gonna be able to marathon through 14 seasons, but I'm wondering if there's a list of essential eps or if there's a point after which it's not worth bothering?

Sorry, I meant to write stop watching at episode 14x13 if you like Sam. Also, if you love Sam and Dean equally there will be seasons where one is favored over the other but from season 12 on they are basically support characters. Be ready to spend a lot of time with randoms you care nothing about.

[Myrelle]

6 hours ago, Flyingwoman said:

So I decided to start watching Supernatural this weekend. Could never quite get into it before but I thought it's ending this year, maybe I should see what the fuss was about. I don't think I'm gonna be able to marathon through 14 seasons, but I'm wondering if there's a list of essential eps or if there's a point after which it's not worth bothering?

I would watch S1-11, if I were you. 

If 15 is going to be worth watching is a question still to be answered, but 12-14?-No.

Do not watch. 

Not if you value Classic Supernatural, that is.

You have been warned. 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Myrelle
Spelling

[DeeDee79]

7 hours ago, Flyingwoman said:

So I decided to start watching Supernatural this weekend. Could never quite get into it before but I thought it's ending this year, maybe I should see what the fuss was about. I don't think I'm gonna be able to marathon through 14 seasons, but I'm wondering if there's a list of essential eps or if there's a point after which it's not worth bothering?

I have a handful of coworkers that I coerced into watching that are now addicted. When they ask me if the show is still good during the later seasons I always tell them that season 11 is iffy, season 12 is crap, season 13 is a mix of the former and season 14 is largely forgettable. 

40 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I would watch S1-11, if I were you. 

If 15 is going to be worth watching is a question still to be answered, but 12-14?-No.

Do not watch. 

Not if you value Classic Supernatural, that is.

You have been warned. 

This!! It's like you're reading my mind.

[ahrtee]

5 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Depends really. What have you watched so far and does any aspect appeal to you? One of the brothers or the interplay between both? Do you go for the emotional drama, the horror movie aspect, the road trip aspect, the old-fashioned Americana aspect, humour? Based on your likes, there could be suggestions for best episodes to watch. 

I'd have to second this.  The show can be supremely frustrating or wonderful, depending on what you're looking for and what you expect.  

If you just want to see what started the fandom, I'd say watch the first 3 seasons (which set up the characters and many of the conflicts) and decide who/what you want to see more of. 

I loved many of the other seasons (especially seasons 4 and most of 6), but there were many who hated them.  I'd even say there are those who love the new characters in the last few seasons, just because they're not expecting the same things that the long-time viewers are.  I can't say whether those seasons are watchable on their own, because I'm way too involved in things that have been dropped or changed so drastically from the early days that it now seems to be a whole new show, and watching either makes me angry or bored.  

So for my suggestion: again, watch the first few seasons, then come back here with your preferences and those who share them can give you good advice as to which eps to watch and which to run from screaming.  

[Pondlass1]

@Flyingwoman

So envious. I wish I was a Supernatural virgin and just starting out again with fresh clean expectations.

Every season has at least 2-5 really really good episodes, but seasons 1-4 are simply the best.  The acting is top notch throughout all seasons. 

As you watch you will likely find yourself rooting for one brother over the other which will influence your feelings around certain plots. 

Supernatural is the only network series I got into with a passion.  When it's over next year I'll go back to being normal again (hopefully).

So fasten your seat-belts.  It's going to be a bumpy ride.

[ILoveReading]

Acutally, there is no need to watch s 1-14.  Based on the way 14 ended, none of it matters anyway. 

For me the show completely lost its original charm and heart after 11.4.  They brought back a pointless character who will now just not go away.   I personally think Dabb took over right after episode 5 because that is when the season turned to crap and the show never really recovered. 

I liked Regarding Dean and Asa Fox in s12.

There is honestly no episode that stands out for me in 13.  I can't even remember one, they all blend together.

As for s14, I pretty much stopped watching whole episodes after 7 becasue of he shift to a character I care nothing about.  The only whole episode I watched after that was episode 13 and that was for nostalgia.  It wasn't horrible but it was a let down because something I really wanted to happen never did.

[Katy M]

35 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

here is honestly no episode that stands out for me in 13.  I can't even remember one, they all blend together.

I liked ScoobyNatural

[ILoveReading]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

I liked ScoobyNatural

I did too, but I still forgot about it.  lol.

I don't even know what season 13 was supposed to be about.

[Katy M]

7 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I did too, but I still forgot about it.  lol.

I don't even know what season 13 was supposed to be about.

Saving Mary and Jack from the AU, I guess.

[Flyingwoman]

On 5/14/2019 at 1:58 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

If you're only watching so you can watch the final season, then no, I don't think there can be a quintessential list. 1, you'll never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, did I mention ever, get any kind of consensus on that. 2, canon, especially after S11, is a joke and there is often little relation of what is happening now to what happened in the past. And 3, because of that, you'd need to watch 1-11 to have an appreciation for just how shitty 12-14 and please god, not 15 really are, and to understand why it stayed on all these years to begin with. It used to be a great (genre) show, and there are very few episodes in those first 11 seasons that aren't worth a watch.*

In my opinion, of course.

*ETA Bloodlines in S9 is pretty universally panned, but it was a backdoor spinoff and not a legitimate episode of Supernatural anyway.

On 5/14/2019 at 2:56 PM, Aeryn13 said:

Depends really. What have you watched so far and does any aspect appeal to you? One of the brothers or the interplay between both? Do you go for the emotional drama, the horror movie aspect, the road trip aspect, the old-fashioned Americana aspect, humour? Based on your likes, there could be suggestions for best episodes to watch. 

I personally think this show had three good Seasons that are worth watching:

Season 1, 2 and 4. Other Seasons have good episodes and the ones I named have weak episodes but those are the only entire Seasons I think are actually good.  

Thanks for all the feedback! It sounds as if the consensus is that there is some good stuff through S10, unless I happen to really become invested in Sam, in which case be careful with seasons 8 & 9. Don't know if I will get that far. I'm only Midway through S1 right now; ended up getting side-tracked with a Deadwood re-watch before seeing the movie (but I am now anxious to see Jim Beaver! I'm re-mouring Ellsworth and his wedding gloves right now.).

I think the interplay of the brothers is more interesting to watch than either of them would be as a stand-alone character; they seem designed to both compliment and antagonize each other. Without that you'd need to introduce a bigger cast for one or the other to play off - although it sounds as if that might happen in the later seasons? As for the rest, I'd say: road trip, horror movie*, humor, Americana. I appreciate the emotional drama in that the show seems to be grounding itself in their personal and family tragedies - it gives the characters motivation and me a reason to care - but I appreciate more that they haven't (yet?) eaten up a lot of time with that. 

*Although... the only episode I've found frightening so far has been Home. Incidentally that's the ep that has had the most development of the family-secrets plot. If they continue like that, I'll probably enjoy the back-story more.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Flyingwoman said:

Thanks for all the feedback! It sounds as if the consensus is that there is some good stuff through S10, unless I happen to really become invested in Sam, in which case be careful with seasons 8 & 9. Don't know if I will get that far. I'm only Midway through S1 right now; ended up getting side-tracked with a Deadwood re-watch before seeing the movie (but I am now anxious to see Jim Beaver! I'm re-mouring Ellsworth and his wedding gloves right now.).

I think the interplay of the brothers is more interesting to watch than either of them would be as a stand-alone character; they seem designed to both compliment and antagonize each other. Without that you'd need to introduce a bigger cast for one or the other to play off - although it sounds as if that might happen in the later seasons? As for the rest, I'd say: road trip, horror movie*, humor, Americana. I appreciate the emotional drama in that the show seems to be grounding itself in their personal and family tragedies - it gives the characters motivation and me a reason to care - but I appreciate more that they haven't (yet?) eaten up a lot of time with that. 

*Although... the only episode I've found frightening so far has been Home. Incidentally that's the ep that has had the most development of the family-secrets plot. If they continue like that, I'll probably enjoy the back-story more.

I don't know if this means Home is the last episode you saw (not quite mid-way) but, in my opinion, Home, Asylum, Scarecrow and Faith (episodes 9 thru 12) is possibly the best four-episode-stretch of episodes of the series. Gah, I envy people watching those for the first time.

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, Flyingwoman said:

Thanks for all the feedback! It sounds as if the consensus is that there is some good stuff through S10,

Though it may be only my opinion, I'd say through season 11. There are some good episodes in season 11.

If you happen to decide that you don't like Sam, then you can skip some of later season 11, I guess (I don't get it, but it seems to be a popular opinion), but if it were me, I'd say to at least watch "Don't Call Me Shurley." It's one of my favorite episodes of the series. Top 25 easily, for me ...maybe higher. *** "Baby" and "Safe House" are great also. "Baby" would be in my top 25 also... maybe "Safe House," too.

*** It's been a while since I considered a top 25 list. It might look different now.

Edited June 18, 2019 by AwesomO4000
A comma not a period... damn typos.

[gonzosgirrl]

Hmm, now that has me thinking of other strong runs of episodes, with more lean than fat, new characters and monsters introduced, strong world-building, etc.

Season 2,

2x01 - 2x04

2x08 - 2x10  2x12 - 2x14 and here I would almost give them a seven episode run from 8 thru 14, except for Playthings in the middle there.

2x20 - 2x22

Damn, Season two rocked.

Edited June 18, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[AwesomO4000]

6 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

2x08 - 2x10 and here I would almost give them a seven episode run from 8 thru 14, except for Playthings in the middle there.

I agree about "Playthings." I would almost include "The Usual Suspects" for a 4 episode run from 2x7 - 2x10. There were a few missteps, but I liked the whole "Sam and Dean work together without actually being together" vibe.

Quote

Damn, Season two rocked.

It did.

The only other seasons I seemed to find great 4 episode stretches was season 5, 6, and 7 though I know that's not a popular opinion.

For season 5: 5x8 through 5x11, and 5x13 through 5x16. (5x12 ruins a potential 9 episode run)

For season 6: 6x17 through 6x20.  If not for "And Then There Were None" (which isn't really bad per se), it could have been 6x15 through 6x20 for me.

If not for "Season 7, Time for a Wedding" being right in the middle, season 7 would have had a good run, imo, from 7x6 through 7x10. And for me, 7x14 through 7x17 does qualify. (If not for "The Slice Girls" at 7x13, it would have been a 7x12 through 7x17 run, because I liked "Time After Time..." quite a bit, especially with the cut for time ending included.

I couldn't find any others for me. 10x1 through 10x6 might have worked if not for the awful (imo) "Paper Moon" at 10x4. And 10x17 through 10x22 was messed up by "Angel Heart" at 10x20. Let's grind all of the action / momentum to a halt to have an episode about Claire. *sigh*

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Hmm, now that has me thinking of other strong runs of episodes, with more lean than fat, new characters and monsters introduced, strong world-building, etc.

Season 2,

2x01 - 2x04

2x08 - 2x10  2x12 - 2x14 and here I would almost give them a seven episode run from 8 thru 14, except for Playthings in the middle there.

2x20 - 2x22

Damn, Season two rocked.

Agree 100%! Though I did enjoy Playthings 😊

[gonzosgirrl]

No idea where to put this. Saw this post for the new season of Peaky Blinders and legit thought it was Michael.LOL! 

Edited August 16, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[hypnotoad]

Flyingwoman I like you did not start watching this show live. I started it several times on Netflix and then bogged down in Season 7 or so and then stopped. Finally on this last go round I find myself finishing season 12 and about to plunge into season 13.

As a relative newcomer to this show, I have to say I largely enjoyed and/or loved seasons 1-7. Not every episode of course, not every storyline by any means but certainly better than anything after season 7. Seasons 8 and 9 were brutal for me. Just brutal. It took me forever to get through both of those seasons. Seasons 10 through 12 haven't been too bad. I mean most of the episodes aren't all that memorable but still the seasons overall are at least watchable (looking at you season 8 and 9).

I'm crossing my fingers that 13 and 14 are at least watchable.

For me, I think the issue is I'm just over the angels and Lucifer and fights in Heaven and the end of the World etc etc etc. I would love for the show to revert back to 2 dudes out killing bad things ... well 3 I guess Cas can join them. But I think my idea is a lost cause!

[Cambion]

Hey guys, I'm semi back.  Just had a thought which I'm curious to know if anyone else has had.

Been rewatching, and it seems like when Crowley gets introduced, we now have Hell Light. 

First, I love Crowley and have no problem with him.  He is devious, always one to watch and a lot more evil than he first appears.  But Hell seems like a light beer compared to the Hell where Dean was sliced and diced.  And, hypothetically, Crowley knew Dean apprenticed to Alistair, I mean someone had to have mentioned something...so why does he take Deanmon bar hopping and not immediately back to Hell to create "the perfect Hell" with his torture super power?

Anyway, just seems like Hell got less and less Hellish as the seasons move on, or am I whistling in the dark here?

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Cambion said:

Hey guys, I'm semi back.  Just had a thought which I'm curious to know if anyone else has had.

Been rewatching, and it seems like when Crowley gets introduced, we now have Hell Light. 

First, I love Crowley and have no problem with him.  He is devious, always one to watch and a lot more evil than he first appears.  But Hell seems like a light beer compared to the Hell where Dean was sliced and diced.  And, hypothetically, Crowley knew Dean apprenticed to Alistair, I mean someone had to have mentioned something...so why does he take Deanmon bar hopping and not immediately back to Hell to create "the perfect Hell" with his torture super power?

Anyway, just seems like Hell got less and less Hellish as the seasons move on, or am I whistling in the dark here?

Doesn't Crowley actually say, in S6 after becoming KoH, that he intentionally changed things - turned torture into an endless DMV line, to have controlled chaos or something like that?

[trudysmom]

5 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Doesn't Crowley actually say, in S6 after becoming KoH, that he intentionally changed things - turned torture into an endless DMV line, to have controlled chaos or something like that?

Yeah, and later he tells his English butler, I think, about someone who was waiting, "It's hell, it's what you do."  lol.  Love me some snarky Crowley.

[Cambion]

11 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Doesn't Crowley actually say, in S6 after becoming KoH, that he intentionally changed things - turned torture into an endless DMV line, to have controlled chaos or something like that?

6 hours ago, trudysmom said:

Yeah, and later he tells his English butler, I think, about someone who was waiting, "It's hell, it's what you do."  lol.  Love me some snarky Crowley.

Oh yeah.  I seem to remember him at the end of a long line somewhere saying that when they get to the front of the line it starts all over again.  D'oh.  

Thanks guys!  Now it all makes sense.  Crowley wants to make Hell hellish in more subtle, snarky ways.  lol

Edited August 31, 2019 by Cambion
I can't speeellllll

[Res]

3 hours ago, Cambion said:

Oh yeah.  I seem to remember him at the end of a long line somewhere saying that when they get to the front of the line it starts all over again.  D'oh.  

Thanks guys!  Now it all makes sense.  Crowley wants to make Hell hellish in more subtle, snarky ways.  lol

Because the tortured were starting to enjoy it too much, according to him.

[hypnotoad]

So almost done with season 13 - watching episode 17 right now. HATE Asmodeus - what a terrible, awful attempt at a Southern accent. This season overall hasn't been too bad. I loved Scoobynatural and I actually liked the Wayward Sisters episode. If they had gotten rid of Claire I would have watched the hell out of that show (if it had made it to a series).

The thing that bugs me about this particular episode is that Sam and Dean find a woman in the Men of Letters bunker that's been there over 100 years and ... they just set her free? No research no nothing? Lawd. Come on! How long have they been doing this supernatural thing at this point?!?

[Cambion]

On 9/1/2019 at 8:25 AM, hypnotoad said:

So almost done with season 13 - watching episode 17 right now. HATE Asmodeus - what a terrible, awful attempt at a Southern accent. This season overall hasn't been too bad. I loved Scoobynatural and I actually liked the Wayward Sisters episode. If they had gotten rid of Claire I would have watched the hell out of that show (if it had made it to a series).

The thing that bugs me about this particular episode is that Sam and Dean find a woman in the Men of Letters bunker that's been there over 100 years and ... they just set her free? No research no nothing? Lawd. Come on! How long have they been doing this supernatural thing at this point?!?

Apparently not long enough.  I think they should give it, oh, 5 more years, give or take, and we'll re-evalute them hanging up hunting then.  😛

[Flyingwoman]

On 8/17/2019 at 12:38 PM, hypnotoad said:

Flyingwoman I like you did not start watching this show live. I started it several times on Netflix and then bogged down in Season 7 or so and then stopped. Finally on this last go round I find myself finishing season 12 and about to plunge into season 13.

As a relative newcomer to this show, I have to say I largely enjoyed and/or loved seasons 1-7. Not every episode of course, not every storyline by any means but certainly better than anything after season 7. Seasons 8 and 9 were brutal for me. Just brutal. It took me forever to get through both of those seasons. Seasons 10 through 12 haven't been too bad. I mean most of the episodes aren't all that memorable but still the seasons overall are at least watchable (looking at you season 8 and 9).

I'm crossing my fingers that 13 and 14 are at least watchable.

For me, I think the issue is I'm just over the angels and Lucifer and fights in Heaven and the end of the World etc etc etc. I would love for the show to revert back to 2 dudes out killing bad things ... well 3 I guess Cas can join them. But I think my idea is a lost cause!

I am finally (!!!!) finished with S1 (through 2 x 3).  I'm not finding it a marathon-able show, and I'm not sure why, other than that 21 episodes seems like a loooooong season in 2019.

General thoughts:

- That car really needed a new muffler. Thankfully Dean seems to have replaced the exhaust system when he replaced just about everything else

- It really is a basket of horror-movie cliches at this point - which is about 75% of the fun, but also means nothing is especially scary. Except for Home, of course. And that clown in S2. Sam is correct to be afraid of clowns. (Maybe if they work in more bears, cold, and showing up to finals without having attended any classes that semester it'll be more frightening?).

- They do a good job of using their A-plots to illuminate the family dynamic. Home and Something Wicked This Way Comes do this obviously, but I thought Hell House and The Benders were good funhouse-mirrors on them too.

- Speaking of which, I don't know what annoyed me more about The Benders: the Netflix description, which promised 'vanishing into thin air' and completely failed to deliver; that Ernest T. Bass moved north from Mayberry sometime in the last 50 years and took up serial killing, which is the only explanation I can think of for that over-the-top Appalachian hill-billy accent showing up here in MN; or that said hill-billy was trying to kill our heroes when there was a demon to be smoked.

- And speaking of smoke, I get why the CW would not want to show characters smoking, but the fact that Dean and especially John don't seems wrong. With what they do you would think they would be doing a little more self-medicating. I kept expecting both of them to light up and it was a bit surreal that they never did.

- And speaking of John, I thought the narrative really picked up in the last few episodes when he showed up. Partially because it was the culmination of the seasons's quest, but also because of the way it shifted the brothers' relationship. Prior to that I was mostly on Sam's side during whatever arguments they had, but watching him and John go at it made me realize how little oxygen Dean had likely had to breathe once Sam hit puberty. It was a little shocking him watching him go from being sort of desperately dominant to being the peace-maker in the room. Otoh, I could also see why Sam would fight his father tooth-and-nail. He doesn't have Dean's trauma or Dean's burden, but that gives him the clarity to see that John was too dysfunctional to parent well, and fighting that was probably the healthiest thing he could do. I'm a little bummed that we won't get to see John's perspective on his wife's death (and if we do, don't tell me!!!), because it would be interesting, if horrifying, to see him transform from suburban dad to demon Hunter.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, NougatJack said:

They killed enough innocent humans who were possessed by demons instead of exorcice the demons. Sam killed innocent people when he was soulless, and Cas has been mass murdering fellow angels when he has been playing God. So they are monsters too. 

These are not fair comparisons for many reasons, intent being at the forefront. Killing the meat suits in order to kill the demons, well there are arguments to be made about the greater good and whether or not it is a mercy to the person possessed.

Cas killing angels is not a valid comparison, since they are all supernatural beings.

And for what it's worth, Dean was willing to end Sam, or at the least, let him die, on two separate occasions, rather than let him become/remain a monster. The first demon blood detox, and the re-souling.

You can argue Jack's 'innocence' (though it will be wasted on me), but the fact remains, he knew what he was capable of when he accidentally killed the townie girl. Whether he was manipulated into killing Mary or not (thanks, Dabb, you asshole), he knew he did it, and the only regret he had was that it made Dean and Sam think less of him.

Edited October 3, 2019 by gonzosgirrl
clarity

[Aeryn13]

The problem with Jack is that he is an overcoddled and overpowered milquetoast that chews up storylines left and right and everyone needs to be oh-so invested in him.

I hated the Mary character and I couldn't care less that he killed her - she acted so stupid in that scene. But it was the last chance to give the Jack-character some desperately needed, well, character. Instead they diapered him right again. 

[gonzosgirrl]

22 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I hated the Mary character and I couldn't care less that he killed her - she acted so stupid in that scene. But it was the last chance to give the Jack-character some desperately needed, well, character. Instead they diapered him right again. 

Not to mention the utter (writer) hypocrisy of 'mature' Jack being oh-so-okay with sacrificing Dean for the greater good (to end Michael), but asking us to feel sorry for the poor nougat baby when the tables are turned. Just another example of Dabb's bizarre lack of continuity and disregard of even his own damn canon.

[Smad]

26 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

You can argue Jack's 'innocence' (though it will be wasted on me), but the fact remains, he knew what he was capable of when he accidentally killed the townie girl. Whether he was manipulated into killing Mary or not (thanks, Dabb, you asshole), he did it, and the only regret he had was that it made Dean and Sam think less of him.

This is not just about Mary but generally. For me there is no argument of innocence when someone knows what they are doing is wrong. Jack knows it because he knows that D/S would see it as wrong (so he is aware of right/wrong), hence his worry about how they would treat him because of it. The giant problem here is that this is the wrong worry for Jack to have. Instead of feeling remorse for ending a human's life, understanding the tragedy in that and why that in and of itself is wrong (ending a life)...he instead worries about how others will see him when he does these things. You morality should not be 'if I do this, then that person won't like me'. Your morality should be 'i can't do this because it's wrong.'

[Katy M]

I don't think it matters if Jack knows right from wrong.  It's like the discussion they had in Heart.  It doesn't matter that Madison was "ration unconscious" when she killed people, she was still killing people.

And IF Jack doesn't know right from wrong, how many more people do you let him kill to wait for him to learn, assuming that he can. 

Have I mentioned how much I hate Jack lately?

[Smad]

53 minutes ago, Katy M said:

And IF Jack doesn't know right from wrong, how many more people do you let him kill to wait for him to learn, assuming that he can.

Jack to me also has the giant problem of falling short in comparison to other supernatural beings. I don't like to compare since each individual has to be judged by themselves but his situation is not that unique in the SPN world.

Look at Jessie Turner, the Anti-Christ. He wasn't aware of the damage he was doing but once it was explained to him, no problem. Sure he has been raised by good humans for a while but he also left when he was pretty young. And presumably the boy has been raising himself ever since, having left his parents. Considering how long Lucifer has been walking the Earth since S5, and the boy hasn't made a blip on the radar, his morals seem to be firmly in place.

Or hell, since his rapid aging vs his actual age is always used as an excuse we could also look at Amara. She was even younger than Jack (it's been 2 years for him vs several months for her) and if anyone shouldn't have morals, it's her. She is a primordial being at her core and she has no soul, the concept of morality should not exist for her at all. Presumably she can't naturally have it (lack of soul), learn it and she should be above it. But even she towards the end recognized that her destruction was wrong, she did it for the wrong reasons and creation was actually a good and beautiful thing that she didn't want to destroy. If Jack had been in her situation in the S11 Finale, his reasoning for stopping would have been that people he knows would be disappointed in him if he didn't stop, instead of recognizing the merit of what he was destroying and destruction being wrong in itself.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Smad

[tennisgurl]

Now that’s it’s officially Halloween season, I’ve been watching a bunch of my favorite episodes to celebrate spooky season (and remind myself why I ever liked this show in the first place as we come towards the end) and I always forget how good this show can be. My first episode is Hollywood Babylon, with angry creepy ghosts, adorable PA Dean, and some great lines. “Maybe the ghosts are trying to stop the movie because it sucks? Because it kinda does.”

[DeeDee79]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Now that’s it’s officially Halloween season, I’ve been watching a bunch of my favorite episodes to celebrate spooky season (and remind myself why I ever liked this show in the first place as we come towards the end) and I always forget how good this show can be. My first episode is Hollywood Babylon, with angry creepy ghosts, adorable PA Dean, and some great lines. “Maybe the ghosts are trying to stop the movie because it sucks? Because it kinda does.”

I never get tired of Hollywood Babylon. Dean was indeed too adorable for words and it's an interesting story as well. One of my favorites that fits into the Halloween season ( I love Halloween btw 😁) is Playthings. So many gems to be found in season 2!

[Smad]

I still don't know which is weirder.

That God dated Becky.

Or

That Becky dated God.

[Wynne88]

Can anyone remind me if any of the AU hunters are still alive?  Most were nameless, but for the life of me, I can't remember what (if anything) happened to AU Bobby and AU Charlie).

It was a dumb concept, but having inflicted it upon the show, I'm curious as to just how thoroughly they swept it under the rug.

[Katy M]

57 minutes ago, Wynne88 said:

Can anyone remind me if any of the AU hunters are still alive?  Most were nameless, but for the life of me, I can't remember what (if anything) happened to AU Bobby and AU Charlie).

It was a dumb concept, but having inflicted it upon the show, I'm curious as to just how thoroughly they swept it under the rug.

Bobby is.  Most, if not all, of the others were killed in Ouroboros.  Including Maggie, the only one with a name. OK, I might be exaggerating on that. On the other hand, they did have other hunters patrolling the town last week, so they may have been AU hunters.  They weren't really focused on.

ETA: Also, Charlie is still alive as far as I know. I forgot about her.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Katy M

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, PinkChicken said:

At least this one is lol. I had to search for a name to match the face
http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/Jules

This character was named as a nod to Jules, the Superwiki Admin. One of the very few fan-service instances I don't mind. The Superwiki is an invaluable fandom resource and I'm sure it's a shit-ton of work to maintain. I'm glad they recognized the effort in a small way.