Supernatural Bitterness & Unpopular Opinions: You All Suck

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

Then they could have done that with Abaddon, yet they didn't.

That could be said about any villain on the show though, up to and including Crowley. The difference is, IMO, that Dean would not have fought it - indeed, asked for it. The thing in question was whether or not Dean believed he could be stopped if he lost control, and he did.

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

That could be said about any villain on the show though, up to and including Crowley. The difference is, IMO, that Dean would not have fought it - indeed, asked for it. The thing in question was whether or not Dean believed he could be stopped if he lost control, and he did.

Would he have?  Demon Dean was not asking anybody to kill him.  There is no reason to have been sure that he would have asked at any point when he was taking the mark.  And, you're right.  It does raise the question of, back when Cas had the power to do so, he didn't throw all the monsters they encountered into the sun. And, exactly how would the angels have done that anyway?  By the time Dean took the mark, angels didn't have wings.  Dean's taking the mark was in no way a well thought-out plan that had an end game. Beyond "kill Abaddon." 

[BabySpinach]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

Then they could have done that with Abaddon, yet they didn't.

Well it was mostly a joke.... I think we all appreciate that this show has plenty of logic holes. Biggest one for me is that they summoned fucking Lucifer from the cage instead of Michael to help fight the Darkness.

Quote

Dean's taking the mark was in no way a well thought-out plan that had an end game. Beyond "kill Abaddon." 

And lack of "end game" applies to most big choices that the characters have made. Except Dean with the Mark didn't even endanger the world like others have as a result of those choices.

ETA: At least Dean HAD a contingency plan once he knew what the Mark was doing to him. What did Cas plan to do after he swallowed all the Purgatory souls and exploded Raphael? What did Sam plan to do about the Darkness that he knew was going to be unleashed after the MoC removal?

Edited August 7, 2018 by BabySpinach

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, BabySpinach said:

Well it was mostly a joke.... I think we all appreciate that this show has plenty of logic holes. Biggest one for me is that they summoned fucking Lucifer from the cage instead of Michael to help fight the Darkness.

Which is what happens when Buck Leming say the favor writing for Lucifer the most...welp, there you go.  It was all about making sure Pellegrino was around.  And swapping meatsuits to make sure Lucifer was in the SL once Pellegrino was available again.  Absurd.

[gonzosgirrl]

33 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Would he have?  Demon Dean was not asking anybody to kill him.  There is no reason to have been sure that he would have asked at any point when he was taking the mark.  And, you're right.  It does raise the question of, back when Cas had the power to do so, he didn't throw all the monsters they encountered into the sun. And, exactly how would the angels have done that anyway?  By the time Dean took the mark, angels didn't have wings.  Dean's taking the mark was in no way a well thought-out plan that had an end game. Beyond "kill Abaddon." 

I would never argue that taking on the Mark was well thought out - not at all. What I'm saying is intent and consequences were being discussed and I believe human Dean believed he could be stopped if necessary, and post-Demon Dean wanted to be stopped. Of course, all bets are off for Demon Dean, just as they were for any possessed (Sam), soulless (Sam), demon-blood addled (again, Sam), or supernaturally influenced/mind controlled character (Cas).

[Katy M]

35 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I would never argue that taking on the Mark was well thought out - not at all. What I'm saying is intent and consequences were being discussed and I believe human Dean believed he could be stopped if necessary, and post-Demon Dean wanted to be stopped. Of course, all bets are off for Demon Dean, just as they were for any possessed (Sam), soulless (Sam), demon-blood addled (again, Sam), or supernaturally influenced/mind controlled character (Cas).

And, all I'm saying is that most of the characters on this show are laser-focused on task at hand, and don't worry about what happens next.  The one character I would say actually sometimes had a master plan that went beyond the moment would be Crowley.  Yeah, he messed up royally when he let Lucifer out, and I thought that was hugely out of character for him.  but, even so, he *thought* he had all the contingencies worked out.

[BabySpinach]

Quote

Thing is - Dabb glorifies hunting too much and in the end he cheapens it. 

In the beginning we witnessed the toll it takes - it's a gritty dangerous lonely life.  We see Sam and Dean suffer and what they lost.  But as the years passed and new show runners came along.. 'hunting'  became exciting and thrilling and not really dangerous at all.  Everyone and their giddy aunt wanted to become a hunter.  Teens, nerds, lady sheriffs, mommy dearest, etc etc were overnight sensations and often more accomplished hunters than the originals of the show - namely Sam and Dean.

This is where Dab lost his way.  The first spin off had an uninteresting kid who wanted to be a hunter.  WW was about a bunch of brash annoying teens wanting to be hunters. 

Kripke showed us the horrors of the life.  It wasn't fun.  It was lonely and hard.  Dean warned people off.  And it wasn't something learned overnight.

Dabb just wanted to throw a bunch of pretty hunters at the screen without bothering with  substance.  Neither spin off had legs imo.

Dabb ignores the bread and butter of the show he runs.

I think that Charlie was a big contributor to the cheapening of the hunting life. She just picks it up like a fun hobby and wishes that it were more "magical". *barf* Then she gets what she wants, as usual. She uses a goddamn app to identify the monster. She suddenly knows how to shoot a gun perfectly in 8.20, despite her initial characterization being a nerdy hacker (it's like if Jody suddenly became a tech geek). Charlie then comes back with super kung-fu in 10.11 and can hold her own against Dean (at least until he gives up holding back). Then in 10.18, guess what, she can now use a samurai sword, too!

Sam and Dean grew up learning how to shoot and fight, but Charlie just breezed past it all without any of the scars or baggage. I feel as if her death was really the brutality of the SPN world finally catching up to her. She'd existed in this quirky little fantasy bubble, comfortably isolated from the real themes and tone of the show, until she got involved in the mytharc. Her grisly death scene in the bathtub is what would have realistically happened to her within her first appearance, if she hadn't been Robbie Thompson's little pet. Her death was still incredibly stupid and contrived, but it actually felt like part of the SPN reality. 

[Katy M]

47 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

I think that Charlie was a big contributor to the cheapening of the hunting life. She just picks it up like a fun hobby and wishes that it were more "magical". *barf* Then she gets what she wants, as usual. She uses a goddamn app to identify the monster. She suddenly knows how to shoot a gun perfectly in 8.20, despite her initial characterization being a nerdy hacker (it's like if Jody suddenly became a tech geek). Charlie then comes back with super kung-fu in 10.11 and can hold her own against Dean (at least until he gives up holding back). Then in 10.18, guess what, she can now use a samurai sword, too!

Sam and Dean grew up learning how to shoot and fight, but Charlie just breezed past it all without any of the scars or baggage. I feel as if her death was really the brutality of the SPN world finally catching up to her. She'd existed in this quirky little fantasy bubble, comfortably isolated from the real themes and tone of the show, until she got involved in the mytharc. Her grisly death scene in the bathtub is what would have realistically happened to her within her first appearance, if she hadn't been Robbie Thompson's little pet. Her death was still incredibly stupid and contrived, but it actually felt like part of the SPN reality. 

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.  This is why I was fine with Charlie in her first two episodes, but hated her in the 4th one on.  I'm kind of ambivalent about her third one.  In her first episode, she was expert hacker.  Something she had grown up doing.  But, she needed S&D's help with the actual break-in and she was scared. This was a normal person.  And, she didn't take out any monsters.  What little monster fighting there was, was done by Bobby.  And Sam carried her out of the building.

Second episode, she was LARPing.  Something that has probably been her hobby for years.  And, while she did stab the book, S&D were keeping the warlock, person, whatever he was occupied.  Even I can stab a book.  I would imagine.  I've never tried.  I love books.

But, after that she just magically knew how to do everything and treated it like a game.  Worse yet, everybody acts like she's God's gift to hunting.  Sam and Dean praise her up the ying yang for everything.  Dorothy, who seemed like she just hated everyone on general principle (but that may have been only men), was falling all over herself with Charlie.  She successfully eludes the Steins over at least 2 contintents, even though she is carrying a beacon to them.  And, in the end, it's her downfall, because she thinks she's so awesome that she doesn't need any protection and can just go off on her own and do whatever. 

[catrox14]

49 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

I feel as if her death was really the brutality of the SPN world finally catching up to her.

If only the show had actually addressed her death in that manner: that part of her being dead is because she sought out something she wasn't entirely cut out for.  Funny thing, Dean didn't want her to go to Oz and she more or less shamed him for it or the narrative did, for him expressing his concern.  In the end, Dean was right about it. She may have won that war single handedly (major eyeroll) in Oz but seems like the cost of it splitting her and then reuniting both parts in one made her stupid or at least absurdly unable to cope with Rowena.  They could have had Dean reiterate in The Prisoner that Charlie should have never gone to Oz or have Sam even say so.  

If BL were going for "it's a hard knock life" for a hunter, in her death, there should have been a much better fill in the blanks as to how she went from super fighter yet in Dark Dynasty she couldn't cut dealing with Rowena.  That doesn't seem like a war hardened soldier's response. That was some shit writing from BL on that point and now it can't be walked back, even if they try to sell that AU Charlie is OG Charlie, which she is not.   

I still think Robbie had some great eps and he did create Cain and the MoC SL for Dean. I just think he had a blind spot with Charlie in that he wanted her to be the best most special character.  I will say that maybe if a different actress had been Charlie maybe some nuance would have come through about her fears but I don't think Felicia really had that skill.  She had quirky and then "evil" and nothing in between. 

[Katy M]

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

She had quirky and then "evil" and nothing in between. 

I think quirky would have been OK if they had eased her in a bit better.  She went from geeky hacker to hunter extraodinaire in 4 episodes.  Sure, there was over a year in that time, but we didn't see any of her growth and training, and were basically told that she didn't really have any.  She learned it from an app.  Which brings up another question, who developed this app and marketed it?

[trxr4kids]

41 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Which brings up another question, who developed this app and marketed it?

The Ghostfacers no doubt.

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, trxr4kids said:

The Ghostfacers no doubt.

I love the Ghostfacers, but I feel like if they put out a "how-to-hunt" app there would be too much disinformation for Charlie to become superhunter extraodinaire.  Am I thinking about this too much?

[BabySpinach]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.  This is why I was fine with Charlie in her first two episodes, but hated her in the 4th one on.  I'm kind of ambivalent about her third one.  In her first episode, she was expert hacker.  Something she had grown up doing.  But, she needed S&D's help with the actual break-in and she was scared. This was a normal person.  And, she didn't take out any monsters.  What little monster fighting there was, was done by Bobby.  And Sam carried her out of the building.

Second episode, she was LARPing.  Something that has probably been her hobby for years.  And, while she did stab the book, S&D were keeping the warlock, person, whatever he was occupied.  Even I can stab a book.  I would imagine.  I've never tried.  I love books.

But, after that she just magically knew how to do everything and treated it like a game.  Worse yet, everybody acts like she's God's gift to hunting.  Sam and Dean praise her up the ying yang for everything.  Dorothy, who seemed like she just hated everyone on general principle (but that may have been only men), was falling all over herself with Charlie.  She successfully eludes the Steins over at least 2 contintents, even though she is carrying a beacon to them.  And, in the end, it's her downfall, because she thinks she's so awesome that she doesn't need any protection and can just go off on her own and do whatever. 

It makes me think of one of Pixar's writing rules: a character who tries is much more sympathetic than a character who succeeds. I have a feeling that Robbie had Charlie's entire "growth" from geeky hacker to badass warrior all planned out in his head. He was probably gleeful at how well he was "developing" her. Only, he lost sight of any self-awareness and restraint along the way.

It's a shame that Charlie was such a massive blindspot for him, because he typically wrote very witty and charming (or just plain awesome) episodes outside of her. I grudgingly find 10.05 Fan Fiction tolerable and even somewhat endearing in spite of its stupid premise and privileged teenaged schoolgirls representing the fanbase, and that's entirely because Robbie knows how to be likable. He just went into overdrive with Charlie and made her suck. 

[trxr4kids]

5 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Am I thinking about this too much?

Maybe....... but not not more than the rest of us. 

Boom..new head cannon..... Charlie traveled back in time via a portal in Oz and created her own hunter app. 

I'm actually surprised that's not cannon now that I've thought about it, lol.

[Katy M]

6 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

It makes me think of one of Pixar's writing rules: a character who tries is much more sympathetic than a character who succeeds. I have a feeling that Robbie had Charlie's entire "growth" from geeky hacker to badass warrior all planned out in his head. He was probably gleeful at how well he was "developing" her. Only, he lost sight of any self-awareness and restraint along the way.

It's a shame that Charlie was such a massive blindspot for him, because he typically wrote very witty and charming (or just plain awesome) episodes outside of her. I grudgingly find 10.05 Fan Fiction tolerable and even somewhat endearing in spite of its stupid premise and privileged teenaged schoolgirls representing the fanbase, and that's entirely because Robbie knows how to be likable. He just went into overdrive with Charlie and made her suck. 

You know what might have been better?  If Slumber Party had played out completely different.  Charlie just came to fix the computer.  She hadn't been off hunting on her own.  While, I feel it would be impossible for anyone to interface a new computer with a computer that old, I'll hand wave that.  At least Charlie's character started out as a computer geek, so I don't mind her having super computer skills.  OK, anyway.  Dorothy and the wicked witch get out as happened, because that had nothing to do with Charlie.  And Charlie can still come up with the idea of poppy bullets, because that seems like something any of us could have come up with.  But, Charlie hasn't been hunting, and isn't seeking a magical quest.  But, at the end, she accidentally ends up in Oz with Dorothy, or maybe on purpose, but with some better reasoning.  Since time is different in Oz and she had Dorothy to train her, I wouldn't have that much problem with her coming back with more skills at that point.  there would be explanation.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Katy M

[ahrtee]

16 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I love the Ghostfacers, but I feel like if they put out a "how-to-hunt" app there would be too much disinformation for Charlie to become superhunter extraodinaire.  Am I thinking about this too much?

I assume it was one of the geek fans who went to the "Real Ghostbusters" con.  There's probably a SPN RPG online somewhere too. :)

ETA:  It looked like the images Charlie had on her tablet were the ones Sam and Dean researched for their cases.  I'd think the app was based off the books (kind of like an online hunter's journal.)  And yes, I'm thinking about this too much. :)

Edited August 7, 2018 by ahrtee

[Katy M]

21 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

ETA:  It looked like the images Charlie had on her tablet were the ones Sam and Dean researched for their cases.  I'd think the app was based off the books (kind of like an online hunter's journal.)  And yes, I'm thinking about this too much. :)

We clearly need to start some sort of "thinking too much about the minutiae of Supernatural Anonymous" support group.

[gonzosgirrl]

36 minutes ago, Katy M said:

You know what might have been better?  If Slumber Party had played out completely different.  Charlie just came to fix the computer.  She hadn't been off hunting on her own.  While, I feel it would be impossible for anyone to interface a new computer with a computer that old, I'll hand wave that.  At least Charlie's character started out as a computer geek, so I don't mind her having super computer skills.  OK, anyway.  Dorothy and the wicked witch get out as happened, because that had nothing to do with Charlie.  And Charlie can still come up with the idea of poppy bullets, because that seems like something any of us could have come up with.  But, Charlie hasn't been hunting, and isn't seeking a magical quest.  But, at the end, she accidentally ends up in Oz with Dorothy, or maybe on purpose, but with some better reasoning.  Since time is different in Oz and she had Dorothy to train her, I wouldn't have that much problem with her coming back with more skills at that point.  there would be explanation.

Even then, in order for them to need her expertise, they hit Sam with the stupid stick - acting like he never saw a computer before.

[ahrtee]

16 minutes ago, Katy M said:

We clearly need to start some sort of "thinking too much about the minutiae of Supernatural Anonymous" support group.

I thought that's what this forum was (although it seems more like enabling than trying to help us get over it!)   :) 

[gonzosgirrl]

https://thejabberwock.tumblr.com/post/176890484757/sam-and-dean-and-the-gritty-aftermath-of-the-hunt

I really hope that link works. The GIFs, the responses, all of it exemplifies a) what I miss about the earlier seasons. And b) the thing (IMO and as discussed by many other posters) missing from WS and the insta-hunters. Hunting is a dangerous,  risky and often painful life. Hiding your long blonde locks under a ball cap and taking out a nest of vamps (werewolves?) on your own, it's not. 

[DeeDee79]

38 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

https://thejabberwock.tumblr.com/post/176890484757/sam-and-dean-and-the-gritty-aftermath-of-the-hunt

I really hope that link works. The GIFs, the responses, all of it exemplifies a) what I miss about the earlier seasons. And b) the thing (IMO and as discussed by many other posters) missing from WS and the insta-hunters. Hunting is a dangerous,  risky and often painful life. Hiding your long blonde locks under a ball cap and taking out a nest of vamps (werewolves?) on your own, it's not. 

I love her blog. It's so nice to find Dean positive sites and she has a lot of great content. Thanks for posting!

[gonzosgirrl]

51 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I love her blog. It's so nice to find Dean positive sites and she has a lot of great content. Thanks for posting!

She is Dean positive, for sure, but she's pretty even handed as well and a fan of the show. This post in particular just showed how hard hunting is (or was).

[DeeDee79]

3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

She is Dean positive, for sure, but she's pretty even handed as well and a fan of the show. This post in particular just showed how hard hunting is (or was).

Yes, I know that she's fair to all of the characters but for me her Dean posts makes her blog an enjoyable read.

[MysteryGuest]

I agree that they ruined Charlie's character.  The nerdy computer geek persona was perfect for her, and I loved her interactions with Dean and Sam.  She could have continued to work more closely with them, doing research, etc.  But having her suddenly start going off on solo hunts was ludicrous and should never have happened.  The couple close encounters she had with monsters should have been enough to make her want to stay as far away from the action as possible.  

[companionenvy]

30 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I agree that they ruined Charlie's character.  The nerdy computer geek persona was perfect for her, and I loved her interactions with Dean and Sam.  She could have continued to work more closely with them, doing research, etc.  But having her suddenly start going off on solo hunts was ludicrous and should never have happened.  The couple close encounters she had with monsters should have been enough to make her want to stay as far away from the action as possible.  

I don't know. I think they did say at one point that Charlie was doing pretty routine hunts, at least at first. And I could see where some of Charlie's skills - especially hacking and deception -- would come in handy as a hunter, especially as some of the more routine hunts are at least as much a matter of research and knowledge as they are about physical prowess. Reading the SPN books alone would have left her with a lot of practical knowledge of how to confront various monsters, and something like a haunting is mostly a matter of figuring out who the ghost is likely to be and burning the bones or whatever other object it is attached to. 

To me, the issue was with Charlie's original character, even though I did like her. She was introduced as basically a geek girl wish fulfillment, and they took it too far. She isn't just a hacker amusing herself by trolling on the internet, she is transferring funds from a GOP Superpac to an environmental group. She has an admiring co-worker who lives vicariously through tales of her romantic exploits. Dick Roman, who hates humans and is planning to kill her, more or less sincerely thinks she's awesome.  When she needs to change identities, she admits it won't be the first time. Even Dean's "She's like the little sister I never wanted" gives her an inflated importance - yeah, its a joke, but seriously, all she's done at this point is been kind of adorkable while helping them on a case. Sister is overselling it.

[MysteryGuest]

1 hour ago, companionenvy said:

I don't know. I think they did say at one point that Charlie was doing pretty routine hunts, at least at first. And I could see where some of Charlie's skills - especially hacking and deception -- would come in handy as a hunter, especially as some of the more routine hunts are at least as much a matter of research and knowledge as they are about physical prowess. Reading the SPN books alone would have left her with a lot of practical knowledge of how to confront various monsters, and something like a haunting is mostly a matter of figuring out who the ghost is likely to be and burning the bones or whatever other object it is attached to. 

To me, the issue was with Charlie's original character, even though I did like her. She was introduced as basically a geek girl wish fulfillment, and they took it too far. She isn't just a hacker amusing herself by trolling on the internet, she is transferring funds from a GOP Superpac to an environmental group. She has an admiring co-worker who lives vicariously through tales of her romantic exploits. Dick Roman, who hates humans and is planning to kill her, more or less sincerely thinks she's awesome.  When she needs to change identities, she admits it won't be the first time. Even Dean's "She's like the little sister I never wanted" gives her an inflated importance - yeah, its a joke, but seriously, all she's done at this point is been kind of adorkable while helping them on a case. Sister is overselling it.

I don't deny that she was the stereotypical computer nerd...smarter than anyone, even the government, etc, but it sort of worked for her.  It did for me, anyway.  What I didn't buy was when she said she had gone on a few solo hunts, and taken out a werewolf and something else.  Even a teenage werewolf, or whatever it was, which implied that it was not full grown or all that strong.  My point is that I don't see her killing anything.  She's not a killer.  She's more PETA than NRA, so I think killing anything that wasn't threatening her personally would have been out of character.  Especially monsters that basically look human.

[Pondlass1]

I agree with whoever said they could have kept her as a super computer nerd able to hack into any system.  That would've worked - although it's a very tired trope that's on almost every other TV show.  

The insta-hunter vibe was annoying but personally I couldn't stand the over the top hyper perkiness.  If I ever met someone like Charlie in real life I'd probably have to kill her.  

[ILoveReading]

What bothered me with Charlie more than anything was this was the character that was used for an overall tonal shift in what it meant to be a hunter.

Charlie read the Supernatural books she know what these guys have went through, want they've lost because of hunting and she has the nerve to whine about how hunting isn't magical enough and there was no quest.   Seriously? .  It's a old, hard lonely life and there was a good chance of getting your getting guts ripped out before you were 30.  That's the world that Kripke created.  Dean was always consistent about warning people away from it.

Then Claire comes along and Deans' suddenly, want to be a hunter sure.  Here's some tips. 

Dean tries to warn Patience away.  Jody's like don't listen to him.  Teenagers always make the best possible decisions so leave your dad and all those bossy males and come join our show about 'ghurl power!  Throw away your future to become a hunter.  It's much more fun."

So now anyone with an app and and attitude can be successful at it.

When Jo was an amature she would have been dead on her first hunt if not for Sam and Dean.   They show the ghostfacers are lucky and mostly a joke, and that Richie guy from Sin City ended up getting killed. 

I miss that dark gritty world where hunting was in the shadows. 

Edited August 14, 2018 by ILoveReading

[Katy M]

57 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Dean tries to warn Patience away.  Jody's like don't listen to him.  Teenagers always make the best possible decisions so leave your dad and all those bossy males and come join our show about 'ghurl power!  Throw away your future to become a hunter.  It's much more fun."

To be fair, while I disagree with Jody's encouragement, I think she was more about "make your own decisions" then "hunting is superfun."

 

58 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

They show the ghostfacers are lucky and mostly a joke

The Ghostfacers were lucky, but they also were more observing than hunting.

[ster1]

5 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

 I miss that dark gritty world where hunting was in the shadows. 

I think Kripke had a very different view of the show than what we're seeing now.  His premise was rooted in horror- urban legends, creatures that lurked in society's dark underbelly, blue collar hunters struggling to survive. There was a huge tonal shift during Carver's era, with the introduction of the sophisticated, white collar Men of Letters, the bunker and its neverending source of money, and sparkly hunters like Charlie.  Over time, I think Supernatural stopped being about horror and instead morphed a fantasy show. Which, for me, is discouraging enough but what makes it worse is that Dabb now seems to be writing for a younger audience. So the storylines and new characters (like Jack) are more simplistic/lack depth.

[Casseiopeia]

27 minutes ago, ster1 said:

Dabb now seems to be writing for a younger audience

Eugenie did say in one of her SDCC interviews that the Supernatural audience was the same as the Riverdale audience. 

Edited August 14, 2018 by Casseiopeia

[catrox14]

16 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Eugenie did say in one of her SDCC interviews that the Supernatural audience was the same as the Riverdale audience. 

Wait, what?   LOLOLOLOL.  

That's so hilariously wrong. Some is probably the same.  I would love to know where she's getting that info from.

[ster1]

6 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Eugenie did say in one of her SDCC interviews that the Supernatural audience was the same as the Riverdale audience. 

That's funny because I haven't come across one SPN fan who watches Riverdale. I'm sure there are some out there but it's not the majority. The EPs should have seen that for themselves when (per report), half the Comic Con audience left after the Supernatural panel ended/before the Riverdale panel started.

But, yeah, if the writers think teen girls are the core Supernatural audience, then that would explain a lot. 

[Jeddah]

9 hours ago, ster1 said:

That's funny because I haven't come across one SPN fan who watches Riverdale. I'm sure there are some out there but it's not the majority. The EPs should have seen that for themselves when (per report), half the Comic Con audience left after the Supernatural panel ended/before the Riverdale panel started.

But, yeah, if the writers think teen girls are the core Supernatural audience, then that would explain a lot. 

I watch both! I don’t think Riverdale is just teenage girls either. Riverdale is a darker show than I thought it would be when I first started watching. I know a lot of my friends, both men and women, watch Riverdale. We are definitely not teens! I think Luke Perry and Skeet Ulrich bring in some of the 90’s nostalgia crowd. 

Of course all of that is just anecdotal. I don’t know the actual demographics of either show.

[Bobcatkitten]

23 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

I watch both! I don’t think Riverdale is just teenage girls either. Riverdale is a darker show than I thought it would be when I first started watching. I know a lot of my friends, both men and women, watch Riverdale. We are definitely not teens! I think Luke Perry and Skeet Ulrich bring in some of the 90’s nostalgia crowd. 

Of course all of that is just anecdotal. I don’t know the actual demographics of either show.

Skeet and Perry are on there? Maybe I should try it again. Watched the first two episodes when it first started and was bored. 

[sarthaz]

23 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Eugenie did say in one of her SDCC interviews that the Supernatural audience was the same as the Riverdale audience. 

My daughter is a teenage girl, and Riverdale is the hottest show among her friends. Not a single one of them watches Supernatural, and most haven't even heard of it. While I'm sure there are people who watch the two shows, I don't see a logical link between them, other than the producers trying to change Supernatural into something they think is more profitable (witness Wayward being the Claire show).  Riverdale is a dark-themed soap opera written for children. It has all the touchstones from dozens of other similar shows: the convoluted murder mystery, the rich families with their dark secrets and the defined social castes of a small town, the complicated love triangles, etc. As I type this, I realize what it compares with most directly: Bloodlines -- which is the most un-Supernatural thing to ever Supernatural.  Eugenie Ross-Leming has her stink all over the worst things to ever happen in our beloved show, so it's no surprise she'd say something moronic like that.

[Casseiopeia]

6 minutes ago, sarthaz said:

My daughter is a teenage girl, and Riverdale is the hottest show among her friends. Not a single one of them watches Supernatural, and most haven't even heard of it. While I'm sure there are people who watch the two shows, I don't see a logical link between them, other than the producers trying to change Supernatural into something they think is more profitable (witness Wayward being the Claire show).  Riverdale is a dark-themed soap opera written for children. It has all the touchstones from dozens of other similar shows: the convoluted murder mystery, the rich families with their dark secrets and the defined social castes of a small town, the complicated love triangles, etc. As I type this, I realize what it compares with most directly: Bloodlines -- which is the most un-Supernatural thing to ever Supernatural.  Eugenie Ross-Leming has her stink all over the worst things to ever happen in our beloved show, so it's no surprise she'd say something moronic like that.

I think it is strange to try at this late date to appeal to the younger crowd.  Especially since the main cast is in their late 30's to middle 40's.  And the fact that the ratings consistently does better in the 25-54 year old demographic.

[FlickChick]

40 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

I think it is strange to try at this late date to appeal to the younger crowd.  Especially since the main cast is in their late 30's to middle 40's.  And the fact that the ratings consistently does better in the 25-54 year old demographic.

I agree. However as much as CW president Mark Pedowitz seems to enjoy the show, perhaps he is getting pressure to bring in the younger viewers in that "precious demographic". I personally think that this tonal change in the show is not going to bring in the younger viewers they want, and it's alienating some/many? of their core fans. So all in all, IMO, a wasted venture.

[sarthaz]

44 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

I agree. However as much as CW president Mark Pedowitz seems to enjoy the show, perhaps he is getting pressure to bring in the younger viewers in that "precious demographic". I personally think that this tonal change in the show is not going to bring in the younger viewers they want, and it's alienating some/many? of their core fans. So all in all, IMO, a wasted venture.

I love Supernatural. It occupies a very sacred part of my heart. But if they want a show that appeals to teenage girls, they should just cancel it and green-light something else. You're not going to attract an influx of new young viewers in the 14th season of a show on a 5th rate network that the average American doesn't even know exists. Keeping the show going as a hollow shell of its former self because the creatives want to keep doing it and the fans keep watching is a formula that makes sense. Alienating us to bring in people who will never come is a waste. I guess they figure we're not going anywhere no matter what they do, which I guess is mostly true.

[Res]

Today's UO is that I really don't care for the parody videos or the Hilly gang. Just don't see what the big deal is about it all. Guess they're just not my cup of tea.

[Casseiopeia]

24 minutes ago, Res said:

Today's UO is that I really don't care for the parody videos or the Hilly gang. Just don't see what the big deal is about it all. Guess they're just not my cup of tea.

I liked this part....

 

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Casseiopeia said:

I liked this part....

 

I only just noticed they have their real names on the jumpsuit.

[sarthaz]

2 hours ago, Res said:

Today's UO is that I really don't care for the parody videos or the Hilly gang. Just don't see what the big deal is about it all. Guess they're just not my cup of tea.

I like them for a few reasons: cast having fun, lots of clever references, high production value. They're not the best thing in the world, but they're better than anything BuckLeming has done in 13 years.

[ukgirl71]

I did like the end cameo as well, but haven't seen their other parodies.

[Bobcatkitten]

Plus in the behind the scenes Jared fist bumps Jensen and says "two take Padackles."

[gonzosgirrl]

Amazing what you can find in the credits if you look hard enough. >:-}

[Res]

6 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Amazing what you can find in the credits if you look hard enough. >:-}

Is that from a SPN episode?

[gonzosgirrl]

14 minutes ago, Res said:

Is that from a SPN episode?

It is a joke. (I made it)

[ILoveReading]

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

It is a joke. (I made it)

Speaks volumes when people question if its real.

[DeeDee79]

I'm watching season 2 ( again! ) and I have what may be an unpopular opinion: I don't hate Gordon. He's absolutely paranoid and cutthroat but he's also somewhat sympathetic. When you take away his fixation on Sam it's not hard to see where he's coming from. With his backstory in regards to his sister's kidnapping and subsequent turning by vampires you can kinda understand his motivation and his inability to see beyond black and white with whether or not monsters deserve to live or should be put down immediately. He's not likable but his character is intriguing. It's largely due to Sterling Brown's portrayal IMO.

Edited August 24, 2018 by DeeDee79