Super Social Analysis: Gender, Race, Ethnicity, and LGBT in Movies

[Julia]

I actually don't have a huge problem with Anne, Taylor, or Jlaw. I see how they all might be trying hard in some way or another, but I don't quite understand the criticism for this. They aren't independent artists just for the sole purpose of doing it for the craft, they are celebrities. Their job is to be celebrated. Of course they will try hard to be liked. I think anyone who thinks any celebrity is not trying hard in some way to be liked is kidding themselves.

I'm not bothered that Swift is trying. I'm bothered that what she's selling isn't real, and that she's being lauded for not selling it at all.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Julia

[Janet Snakehole]

That is fair, and honestly my post is more directed towards criticism I see of Anne and Jlaw. I think Taylor tends to use "feminism" to mean "don't critique me". She may grow out of it, I am not holding my breath, but who knows.

[Rick Kitchen]

A discussion of the casting of Scarlett Johansson in Ghost in the Shell as seen through the backdrop of whitewashing of ethnic characters in general.

[greenbean]

Not surprising. There was an article that outlined how Warner Bros. has spent huge sums, and taken over a decade, to try and whitewash Akira. Apparently there have been countless script changes and different directors, all to try and get the characters switched to American, (which is always code for white Americans). Why they don't just cast an Asian-American, or better yet, set the damn thing in Japan, I don't know. People love manga because its so rooted in Japanese culture. I'm not interested in seeing white Americans running around New York, in place of Akira's actual setting and characters.

 

And yes, I agree with the linked article. Hollywood is constantly borrowing from Japanese cinema/manga/culture. Which is no bad thing if they actually gave recognition to those creators, and didn't spend so much time belittling other industries, notably Bollywood, when they borrow from Hollywood.

 

I really wish Warner Bros didn't have the Akira rights. A more internationally minded company would have been better.

Edited October 11, 2015 by greenbean

[VCRTracking]

 

I remember when people said Jasmine looked like Arial with dark skin.

Those people are idiots.

 

[UYI]

Jennifer Lawrence speaks up for equal pay among actors and actresses in Hollywood. As I stated above, I'm not crazy about her public persona (I've never seen her movies, so I can't speak to her acting ability), but she's absolutely right about this.

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jennifer-lawrence-pens-essay-why-831635

[VCRTracking]

I've seen her movies and she's been great in most of them, in fact her characters are so different from her public persona, you realize just how good she is.

She makes a really good point:

 

A few weeks ago at work, I spoke my mind and gave my opinion in a clear and no-bullshit way; no aggression, just blunt. The man I was working with (actually, he was working for me) said, “Whoa! We’re all on the same team here!” As if I was yelling at him. I was so shocked because nothing that I said was personal, offensive, or, to be honest, wrong. All I hear and see all day are men speaking their opinions, and I give mine in the same exact manner, and you would have thought I had said something offensive.

I’m over trying to find the “adorable” way to state my opinion and still be likable! Fuck that. I don’t think I’ve ever worked for a man in charge who spent time contemplating what angle he should use to have his voice heard. It’s just heard. Jeremy Renner, Christian Bale, and Bradley Cooper all fought and succeeded in negotiating powerful deals for themselves. If anything, I’m sure they were commended for being fierce and tactical, while I was busy worrying about coming across as a brat and not getting my fair share. Again, this might have NOTHING to do with my vagina, but I wasn’t completely wrong when another leaked Sony email revealed a producer referring to a fellow lead actress in a negotiation as a “spoiled brat.” For some reason, I just can’t picture someone saying that about a man.

 

[UYI]

The only thing I disagree with her on there are her feelings on Angelina Jolie being called a "spoiled brat." Maybe it's my own bias against her (AJ), but I have a feeling that was actually justified, IMO.

[Bruinsfan]

I don't get the impression of Jolie being spoiled, exactly, (certainly not like, say, Gwyneth Paltrow is) but clearly her upbringing had more issues than National Geographic and that's still informing some behavior in the present day.

[JBC344]

I read those e-mails regarding Angelina Jolie and there was nothing "spoiled" or "bratty" about them.  Jolie in an incredible friendly manner was going back and forth with Scott Rudin and Amy Pascal about Cleopatra and she was discussing all the interesting things she had found in her research and had wanted to push the movie back some because she wanted to have enough time to work with some of the experts and historians who agreed to work with her personally before and during the movie.  Scott Rudin (who is known for his outlandish temper) got pissed because Angelina dared to want to push the movie back so she could get the character right.

 

IMO Scott Rudin came out looking like a complete asshole for what he said behind Angelina's back, especially when you read her side of the e-mails and they are incredibly friendly and cooperative.  Just goes to show you how perception counts against women.

Edited October 13, 2015 by JBC344

[methodwriter85]

When I was watching Back to the Future III, I thought about how much I liked Mary Steenburgen in the film, and how refreshing it was that she was in her mid/late 30's. Nowadays, I kind of think they would have casted Clara as Emma Stone or something.

[VCRTracking]

Clara was supposed to be the love interest of Doc Brown who was 70(although he had went to a "rejuvenation clinic" in the future that added 30-40 years to his life).

 

It's funny but when Steenburgen was younger, like in the back in the days of "Time After Time" , although pretty she was never what would be considered the "hot" girl, but now she's like the go-to actress if you want a "MILF" or "GILF".

Edited October 25, 2015 by VCRTracking

[Jazzy24]

I remember when people said Jasmine looked like Arial with dark skin.

I always found Jasmine to be Disney's most beautiful princess and than Tiana came along and I find them both Disney's most beautiful princesses.

[AimingforYoko]

On Age of Ultron, Scarlett Johansson made half as much as RDJ.....but as much as Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth, Jeremy Renner and Mark Ruffalo put together.

[methodwriter85]

It's funny but when Steenburgen was younger, like in the back in the days of "Time After Time" , although pretty she was never what would be considered the "hot" girl, but now she's like the go-to actress if you want a "MILF" or "GILF".

 

I wonder why it wasn't Sharon Stone- you would have figured that she would have graduated into the whole MILF thing easily, but she hasn't really done that.

[Joe]

So, character posters for Gods of Egypt. Not one animal head among them! Also, no one of Egyptian or Middle-Eastern descent at all. The closest they have is Chadwick Boseman, African-American. Filmed in Australia. Ridiculous, huh? Aussie movie Mad Max filmed in Africa, African (sort of) movie Gods of Egypt filmed in Australia.

 

I'd normally be all over a fantasy movie made in Australia, but I don't want to give those whitewashing bozos my money.

[Trini]

 

the powerful god Horus (Nikolaj Coster-Waldau)

 

I can't even read this with a straight face.  Really? He's not even just white, he's like Northern European White.

[proserpina65]

I can't even read this with a straight face.  Really? He's not even just white, he's like Northern European White.

That's just insane!  I love Nikolaj, but if he's going to start being cast as gods (and he totally should be), they should at least be Norse ones, given how stereotypically Scandinavian he looks.

Edited November 13, 2015 by proserpina65

[greenbean]

I can't even read this with a straight face.  Really? He's not even just white, he's like Northern European White.

 

The poster looks like cosplay.

[VCRTracking]

Aziz Ansari on Acting, Race and Hollywood:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/15/arts/television/aziz-ansari-on-acting-race-and-hollywood.html?_r=1&module=ArrowsNav&contentCollection=Television&action=keypress&region=FixedLeft&pgtype=article

[blixie]

I really liked the honesty of Aziz's piece (from the other side) where he stated how hard it was to find *the right* person of color for a part since, there really are less of them from an absolute pool standpoint, while still maintaining no one in the business is trying hard enough, or like, at all.

 

I also just realized that as much as I love Jane the Virgin, they cast an Italian-Jew, Justin Baldoni, as a Latino, which is doubly frustrating because Baldoni isn't that charasmatic in the role, especially when playing a sexy exciting bad boy type. 

[DollEyes]

  Bumping it up to highly recommend Death In Buenos Aires, an Argentinean film about the murder of a rich gay man, the detective, (played by Demien Bichir) who investigates the case and the young cop (played by Chino Darin) the detective takes under his wing. To say that not everything nor everyone in this film is whom nor what they seem is an understatement. It's currently playing on HBO Latino & for those who've got HBO On Demand, that version's got English subtitles.

[Rick Kitchen]

Aren't all of the actors in "The Goldbergs", playing a Jewish family, Italians?

[proserpina65]

Aren't all of the actors in "The Goldbergs", playing a Jewish family, Italians?

No.  Jeff Garlin is Jewish.  George Segal is of Russian-Jewish descent.  Wendi McLendon Covey has a Scottish-English background.  Troy Gentile's real last name is Farshi, which looks more Persian/Middle Eastern but most likely not Italian.  Hayley Orrantia is of Mexican descent.  Sean Giambone might be Italian, but who knows.  And really, who cares?  They're all extremely good in their respective roles.

 

Unless that was your point.  In which case, never mind my obtuseness.

[Rick Kitchen]

That was pretty much my point, but no biggie.  :)

[proserpina65]

That was pretty much my point, but no biggie.  :)

Oops!  Sorry.  Sometimes I am obtuse.  Which, despite what Les Nessman thought, ain't a good thing.

[blixie]

The Hollywood Reporter takes heat for it's all white Actress round table. Certainly the speculation this year has not included actresses of color (and they have the gall to cite Viola's speech while engaging in depriving opportunity), but every year they include people who aren't REALLY in contention: Jane Fonda? Helen Mirren? Why the fuck is Kate Winslet there? For Steve Jobs? Come the fuck on, NO ONE was talking about Kate in Steve Jobs. That they gave four spots to white women even if three of the eight are OLD white women, isn't impressive, and I really hated the editor saying those are the best actresses alive. Anytime  you use that phrase and Angela Basset and Khandi Alexander aren't in the room? STFU.

 

A great suggestion I saw on Twitter was to sponsor a round table of all black actors/actresses to balance these overarching narratives about Hollywood, particularly if you are going to address issues of PAY equity on the damn cover. 

[Rick Kitchen]

I posted Entertainment Weekly's list of their predictions for Best Actress and Best Actor, and there is not a single Person of Color on either list.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Thank you for these last two posts.  

[topanga]

 

The Hollywood Reporter takes heat for it's all white Actress round table. Certainly the speculation this year has not included actresses of color (and they have the gall to cite Viola's speech while engaging in depriving opportunity), but every year they include people who aren't REALLY in contention: Jane Fonda? Helen Mirren? Why the fuck is Kate Winslet there? For Steve Jobs? Come the fuck on, NO ONE was talking about Kate in Steve Jobs. That they gave four spots to white women even if three of the eight are OLD white women, isn't impressive, and I really hated the editor saying those are the best actresses alive. Anytime  you use that phrase and Angela Basset and Khandi Alexander aren't in the room? STFU.

That article was bullshit. The author says that there were no women of color included in the roundtable because there are none in Oscar contention for this year's films. Whatever. That's messed up, but that's a separate issue.

 

But then, as you pointed out, blixie, this cover didn't just include women who might be considered for an Oscar this year. It honored women for a lifetime of achievement in film. So I'm with you. Where is Angela Bassett? Cicely Tyson? Whoopi Goldberg (even though I'm not a  fan). Where are the other actresses of color who have been in movies this last year, e.g. Michelle Rodriguez from Furious 7 or Zoe Kravitz from Insurgent? or Gugu Mbatha-Raw?

 

The author used the common cop-out line that the best actresses were chosen and that there simply weren't women of color to choose from. This happens in casting, too. Ask Kerry Washington, Viola Davis, and numerous other black actress. They would answer movie casting calls for women of all ethnicities only to be told that the film wasn't "going ethnic" this time. 

[Rick Kitchen]

 

Zoe Kravitz from Insurgent?

 

Octavia Spencer from Insurgent.

[blixie]

 

this cover didn't just include women who might be considered for an Oscar this year.

 

It's particularly egregious in that they aren't even really calling it an "Oscar" round table on the cover, so please STAHP.I also hate that one argument was about "buzz", guess who creates that buzz assholes? So in Oscar season, for films featuring PoC,  we have Beasts of No Nation, Chi-raq, Concussion, and Creed, and earlier in the year we had Straight Outta Compton and Dope.  So every one of those movies has to be Citizen Kane to get in the *conversation*? No you've casted a wide enough net to include Steve Jobs and Suffragette, you could have included Concussion, Creed, and Straight Outta Compton, you could have included Teyonah Parris, Angela Bassett, Gu-Gu Mbatha-raw, Will Smith, Ryan Coogler, F. Gary Gray, Carey Joji Fukanaga, Idris Elba, Abraham Attah. You've picked people who didn't pan out before, so that's not an argument that's rationalization and bullshit one at that.

[topanga]

Octavia Spencer from Insurgent.

Oh, yes. I forgot about Octavia. And she's an Oscar winner.

[Rick Kitchen]

Oops, I double checked the EW lists again and Will Smith is there.

[JBC344]

Wow, that article was slightly insightful in terms of how the process is done.  I have to admit I am a huge fan of the Roundtable discussions that they do.

 

I completely disagree with the idea that there were no women of color that anyone came up with.  Angela, Gu-Gu, Tessa Thompson and Teyonah Parris come to mind.  What I actually found more offensive from the article was that they admitted to intentionally leaving F. Gary Gray out of the Director's roundtable over picking Ridley Scott.  Now I have no problem with them picking Ridley Scott but your telling me that F. Gary wasn't a contender to begin with or didn't make the initial cut?  Straight Outta Compton was a box office and critics success. 

 

Then I saw that the article was written by Steven Galloway who I find to be an idiot and horrible interviewer. 

[galax-arena]

The Hollywood Reporter takes heat for it's all white Actress round table.

Not only are they all white, but almost all of them are blondes. They didn't even try.

[AimingforYoko]

Not only are they all white, but almost all of them are blondes. They didn't even try.

Hey! Didn't you read that article about how sad they were that all the people they invited were white? It just speaks to the slow march of progress in Hollywood. Which The Hollywood Reporter has no responsibility for.

[Dejana]

The Hollywood Reporter takes heat for it's all white Actress round table. Certainly the speculation this year has not included actresses of color (and they have the gall to cite Viola's speech while engaging in depriving opportunity), but every year they include people who aren't REALLY in contention: Jane Fonda? Helen Mirren? Why the fuck is Kate Winslet there? For Steve Jobs? Come the fuck on, NO ONE was talking about Kate in Steve Jobs. That they gave four spots to white women even if three of the eight are OLD white women, isn't impressive, and I really hated the editor saying those are the best actresses alive. Anytime you use that phrase and Angela Basset and Khandi Alexander aren't in the room? STFU.

Of the "OLD white women", Jane Fonda is Best Supporting Actress in Youth. She's made herself very visible so far in awards circles and is hardly a longshot for a nomination. Charlotte Rampling is also a pretty serious Best Actress contender for 45 Years. Helen Mirren, eh, but she might show up in the Best Actress - Drama category at the Golden Globes for Woman in Gold by sheer force of name recognition. Even with the movie completely flopping, Kate Winslet is probably safer for a nomination from Steve Jobs than Fassbender, given the competitiveness of their respective categories and her Oscar history vs. Fassbender's. She wasn't the face of the movie so it's not going to be considered her flop, so to speak. Mirren is really the only one there who doesn't have much of a shot for an actual Oscar nomination this season, even with two FYC campaigns going (the other for a supporting role in Trumbo).

I found the Hollywood Reporter's defense of themselves kind of eye rolling, but I do think the studios are a much much bigger problem in terms of why the Oscars can end up being #SoWhite in certain years. When there are black actors in the awards conversation, they're absolutely included in these roundtables. Take Lupita Nyong'o: overnight, the fashion media fell in love, proclaiming her the new style queen and she was heralded as the picture of poise and grace, in contrast to that phony hillbilly vulgarian JLaw (not my personal feelings, but the internet backlash that year was along those lines). She won the Oscar but pretty much everyone predicted that Margot Robbie, another supporting actress from a 2013 awards contender, would have far better long-term career prospects, because studios and directors would (comparatively) struggle to cast Lupita in substantial roles. When Spike Lee got his Honorary Oscar last weekend, in his speech, he said, “It’s easier to be the president of the United States as a black person than to be the head of a studio." There's a clip at the link, and listen to how well that goes over with the audience (lol).

Another problem for minority actors and filmmakers is that Oscar excludes a lot of acclaimed/popular movies that don't tick the boxes of things AMPAS likes (a whole other issue), so the awards hopes are all wrapped up in a handful of movies. Even if Oscar didn't go Unbroken or Nightcrawler or Fury or Mr. Turner or Inherent Vice in a big way, they could still find white actors to nominate for The Theory of Everything and The Imitation Game and American Sniper and Foxcatcher (and so on). But if Selma has a screener debacle and Top Five underwhelms, that's it for black Hollywood's Oscar hopes that year.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Dejana

[xaxat]

Another problem for minority actors and filmmakers is that Oscar excludes a lot of acclaimed/popular movies that don't tick the boxes of things AMPAS likes (a whole other issue), so the awards hopes are all wrapped up in a handful of movies. Even if Oscar didn't go Unbroken or Nightcrawler or Fury or Mr. Turner or Inherent Vice in a big way, they could still find white actors to nominate for The Theory of Everything and The Imitation Game and American Sniper and Foxcatcher (and so on). But if Selma has a screener debacle and Top Five underwhelm, that's it for black Hollywood's Oscar hopes that year. 

 

I think Oscar voters are biased towards biopics, especially when it comes to male actor nominations. And in a given year there is typically only one buzz worthy film featuring Oscar caliber roles for POC (12 Years, Selma) and a multiple ones for white characters. This year? Straight Outta Compton? Concussion? Versus the roles in Steve Jobs, Black Mass, The Revenant, The Big Short, Bridge of Spies. . . 

[yourstruly]

 

 

Take Lupita Nyong'o: overnight, the fashion media fell in love, proclaiming her the new style queen and she was heralded as the picture of poise and grace, in contrast to that phony hillbilly vulgarian JLaw (not my personal feelings, but the internet backlash that year was along those lines). She won the Oscar but pretty much everyone predicted that Margot Robbie, another supporting actress from a 2013 awards contender, would have far better long-term career prospects, because studios and directors would (comparatively) struggle to cast Lupita in substantial roles.

 

Which has proven to be the case: IMDB shows Nyongo as doing three movies since winning the Oscar-OK, one is Star Wars but that is motion capture and you don't actually see her and another is a voice in The Jungle Book. I can totally see that they just don't know what to do with her, which I find so ridiculous. 

[greenbean]

This is the same industry that wouldn't give Selma Hayek a role because a studio couldn't imagine a Mexican in space. Of course they won't know what to do with Lupita.

 

Was it last year that the black family comedy did well over Christmas? Just look at the industry response to that. Mainstream reviewers calling it a "race movie". There was open hostility to its success. If only it were a tale of poverty and despair, I'm sure it would have been well received then.

 

People are kidding themselves if they think the industry is going to change, or even wants to. As with gender, studios know PoC will come out for movies that don't feature them, whereas the reverse isn't true, so why should they change. All I can say is that I will not be watching Ghost in the Shell.

 

My biggest fear with that movie, is that it will lead to the whitewash of Akira. Which I love. Hollywood has spent over a decade and millions trying to find a way to rid the story of any Asian people. I don't understand why they don't just hire Asian-Americans, they could even still set it in Japan, but more likely a futuristic America. I now fear it will just go the way of Ghost in the Shell, they may even be using it as a test.

Edited November 20, 2015 by greenbean

[Trini]

Studio and director apologize for the casting in 'Gods of Egypt'.

 

I'd be more impressed if I didn't think this is all going to happen again, if not already. Hollywood tends to resist this type of change.

[Joe]

Oh yes, very convenient to say this after it's been done, rather than cast right the first time. I smell bullshit.

[xaxat]

I think that's PR bullshit from Lionsgate. People called them out on the casting of the Insurgent and Hunger Games series, but now they realize the error of their ways?

Edited November 27, 2015 by xaxat

[Rick Kitchen]

What was wrong with the casting of Insurgent and Hunger Games?  I haven't read the books so I'm not aware of the ethnic makeup of the characters in the books.

[BatmanBeatles]

Katniss had olive skin as well as dark hair.

[raezen]

Well, Katniss was also suppose to be really tiny but they threw that out the window. No, that is not body shaming either. Jennifer Lawrence is not fat under any circumstance, however under no circumstance is a woman who is 5'9 petite.

Edited November 27, 2015 by raezen

[xaxat]

What was wrong with the casting of Insurgent and Hunger Games?  I haven't read the books so I'm not aware of the ethnic makeup of the characters in the books.

 

I don't remember the details, but there was a lot of criticism that a number of post racial/bi-racial/olive skinned/curly haired characters in both book series went default white in the movies.

[raezen]

I think the problem also had to do with the casting call. They were only looking for a Caucasian actress. That was what Lionsgate was asking for. And if you have ever watched any of those videos on YouTube about who else could have been cast as Katniss, the only ones that look small and dark haired and dark eyed are dismissed immediately by there age (they were too young, which is bs if they wanted a stunted looking Katniss ) and the rest are almost all blondes with blue eyes.

[BatmanBeatles]

Interestingly enough, the girl who played Clove tried out for Katniss.