Gimme That Old Time Religion

[Defrauder]

I loathe Rick Warren but I don't think it's right to blame him for his son's suicide. We don't know what happened there. 

As you have the right to feel that way I have the right to analyze who I would want to take advice from and why.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Defrauder

[GEML]

I doubt that many people posting here are taking advice or anything else from Rick Warren. In my case, I was simply pointing out that "purpose" as an active verb is used by far more than Gothard and the Duggars.

Edited July 10, 2015 by GEML

[Defrauder]

No the Duggars wouldn't follow just one wolf in sheep's clothing however they do like to saturate themselves particularly in Gothard's teachings.

[Defrauder]

This sounds like you're blaming the author for his son's suicide. That's pretty horrible.

Maybe it was his fault which is even more horrible.  If not, then I still have every right to decide for myself who I would or wouldn't waste my time reading and why.  

[Happyfatchick]

Within my family, we have a saying that means absolutely nothing, but is a signal that were being too serious. Sharing it with my on-line family now, even though it will turn some stomachs: "I like bacon"

[mbutterfly]

I doubt that many people posting here are taking advice or anything else from Rick Warren. In my case, I was simply pointing out that "purpose" as an active verb is used by far more than Gothard and the Duggars.

The word -- as something other than a noun -- certainly went fairly mainstream for a while when the book was hot. 

[kalamac]

Within my family, we have a saying that means absolutely nothing, but is a signal that were being too serious. Sharing it with my on-line family now, even though it will turn some stomachs: "I like bacon"

That put me in mind of my of something my mother used to say, when my brother and I wouldn't stop sniping at each other. "Don't make me get the cereal boxes!" (That signified a warning. If we kept it up, she'd sit us at the table with cereal boxes stacked between us, so we couldn't see each other, for a set period of time, as punishment. If we dared move the cereal boxes, we'd get the strap. Usually just hearing "don't make me get the cereal boxes" was enough to get us to behave.)

[Happyfatchick]

Exactly, Kalamac! I like cereal too!

[becca3891]

I loathe Rick Warren but I don't think it's right to blame him for his son's suicide. We don't know what happened there. 

Wow, if his son started treatment at age 6, it sounds like his depression was severe and difficult. Rick Warren was ahead of many of the Christians I have known if he was able to come to terms with mental illness and not call it rebellion or demon possession. I am no fan of his, but agree that clinical depression happens regardless of circumstances.

 

Installment of a creepy Gothard story....

 

"At some point Bill took off his shoes and encouraged me to do the same. I gladly took them off, since I’m used to not wearing shoes whenever I can. Shortly after, I felt his foot on my ankle. I quickly pulled my feet away and to the side, looking over at him. He was smiling at me. I said “Pardon me”, and tried to put distance between us. Yuck was the word running through my head, and I couldn’t wait to get out of the van. A part of me wondered if I’d misunderstood – maybe his foot accidentally hit me. Even so, I made sure to keep my body as much to myself as possible. I was enormously relieved when we arrived.

Ugh, I remember reading that awhile back. I hate how proudly Bill states that he has never viewed porn, had sex, or touched a woman inappropriately. Maybe that's true as defined only as fondling breasts or genitals. But it's disgusting and typical of Bill to deny the possibility that unwanted foot play, physical closeness, and other behavior may not be illegal, but is certainly sexual harassment and highly inappropriate for anyone, much less a man who calls himself a spiritual father and prides himself on his purity. I lost a friend for good over the matter, someone from my fundy days, who went on Facebook to rant that all the dozens of women were making everything up to try to bring a good man down. Hmm, that sounds a lot like the Cosby defenders, who have had to eat humble pie these past few days.

 

It really shocked me that the Duggars aren't charismatics. Truly, they're sane and moderate compared to charismatics.

I never suspected they might be charismatic, which definitely is its own unique breed of crazy. I'm not so sure I'd call them sane and moderate by comparison, though, but that's just my opinion. :)

[Defrauder]

If Jesus walked into their house they kick him out for not having a Gothard approved hairstyle.  Jesus would probably want to know about these 7 stressors and 49 commandments Gothard claims he handed out so the Duggars would try to pray his sin away and ship him off to one of Gothard's approved camps.  And you wouldn't catch one of JB's daughters putting perfume on him.

[Aja]

If Jesus was in Arkansas period he wouldn't last very long. Assuming he came back with the same genetics he had the first time.

[GEML]

Let's face it - if Jesus came back and lived exactly the way he did before, the exact same result would likely happen.

[bluebonnet]

Depends on where he is.  In the middle east, he's likely to have a run in with the taliban, al qaeda, the daesh, or any other fundy terrorist groups and could be executed for just about any reason with his ramblings dying along with him.  Elsewhere, it's a lot less likely that execution would be on the table, certainly not state sponsored crucifixion.  At the least, he'd be considered a cult leader, probably gaining some notoriety as a dangerous and charismatic one.  More likely, though, several of his behaviors would result in his being involuntarily hospitalized and properly diagnosed with a severe mental illness.  Hopefully the meds and therapy would help him live a more sane life so as to limit the possibility of being the creator of a religion based on a person's mental illness.  Bad enough that we have several major religions designed from these roots.

 

Then again, we have Scientology and they have massive real estate holdings and famous people so we might be unlucky enough to have Jesusology.  

Edited July 13, 2015 by bluebonnet

[GeeGolly]

Is Jesus came to New England, I'd be like, "Dude, so which religion got it right?"

[GEML]

Oh, I was definitely think Middle East.

[Mindymoo]

More likely, though, several of his behaviors would result in his being involuntarily hospitalized and properly diagnosed with a severe mental illness.  Hopefully the meds and therapy would help him live a more sane life so as to limit the possibility of being the creator of a religion based on a person's mental illness.  Bad enough that we have several major religions designed from these roots.

Watch "Black Jesus" on Adult Swim. Jesus came back, he's black, and he lives in Compton. He smokes weed and drinks 40s, but he is passing his message of love and acceptance (and healthy eating) along to those who believe in him. Without revealing too much, he ended up in a 51/50 hold. It's a great show, absolutely hilarious.

[Defrauder]

Depends on where he is.  In the middle east, he's likely to have a run in with the taliban, al qaeda, the daesh, or any other fundy terrorist groups and could be executed for just about any reason with his ramblings dying along with him.  Elsewhere, it's a lot less likely that execution would be on the table, certainly not state sponsored crucifixion.  At the least, he'd be considered a cult leader, probably gaining some notoriety as a dangerous and charismatic one.  More likely, though, several of his behaviors would result in his being involuntarily hospitalized and properly diagnosed with a severe mental illness.  Hopefully the meds and therapy would help him live a more sane life so as to limit the possibility of being the creator of a religion based on a person's mental illness.  Bad enough that we have several major religions designed from these roots.

 

Then again, we have Scientology and they have massive real estate holdings and famous people so we might be unlucky enough to have Jesusology.  

I don't think that it would be a 'proper diagnosis'.  I believe in mystical things and putting Jesus on meds and therapy just so he could fit in and act like everyone else seems like a very average robotic thing to do.  It kind of insults my intelligence actually to think that we all have to act the same way now.  I like ragging on the Duggars because they want everyone to believe what they believe but putting Jesus on meds is no different. 

[lookeyloo]

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/184003.Only_Begotten_Daughter

I read this science fiction book a long time ago. I had my first honeymoon in Atlantic city so made it more fun. She meets her "brother" Jesus. Anyone else ever read this?

[Happyfatchick]

More likely, though, several of his behaviors would result in his being involuntarily hospitalized and properly diagnosed with a severe mental illness.

?

[bluebonnet]

I don't think that it would be a 'proper diagnosis'.  I believe in mystical things and putting Jesus on meds and therapy just so he could fit in and act like everyone else seems like a very average robotic thing to do.  It kind of insults my intelligence actually to think that we all have to act the same way now.  I like ragging on the Duggars because they want everyone to believe what they believe but putting Jesus on meds is no different. 

I'm not at all suggesting everyone needs to act a certain way.  But there are actual mental illnesses.  If Jesus were alive today, he'd be recognized as someone who suffers from a serious mental illness, likely schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, schizoaffective disorder, or something else on a similar spectrum.  This isn't an insult to anyone's intelligence.  

[Defrauder]

I'm not at all suggesting everyone needs to act a certain way.  But there are actual mental illnesses.  If Jesus were alive today, he'd be recognized as someone who suffers from a serious mental illness, likely schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, schizoaffective disorder, or something else on a similar spectrum.  This isn't an insult to anyone's intelligence.  

It's impossible to say what he would be like if he were alive today and to declare him as mentally ill either in the past or the present does insult my intelligence even if you say it doesn't.  Since we're here to discuss the Duggars and not the mental health of Jesus I would prefer to agree to disagree.

[bluebonnet]

It's impossible to say what he would be like if he were alive today and to declare him as mentally ill either in the past or the present does insult my intelligence even if you say it doesn't.  Since we're here to discuss the Duggars and not the mental health of Jesus I would prefer to agree to disagree.

I have no idea what your intelligence has to do with the field of psychiatry.  I assure you, mental illness is a very real thing and denying it smacks of ableism.  People aren't lesser just because they have an illness or disability.  

[Bella]

Agree to disagree and move on. People are allowed their beliefs, whatever they may be. But we don't allow bickering that becomes personal.

Failure to comply will have consequences.

[kalamac]

I assumed it was meant that right now there are people who have been committed/medicated for claiming to be Jesus/God/other historical people of note, so if the real one showed up and started claiming to be Jesus, it would be assumed he was just like one of the many other claimants who has been disbelieved, and treated for delusional ideation. 

 

Sorry Bella, didn't see your post, delete if necessary.

Edited July 14, 2015 by kalamac

[Aja]

Does anybody know what the Duggars actually ARE? I mean besides bananas? I don't know if I ever understood what denomination the Duggars, or Gothardites in general, identify with (although with such a prevalence in the South I'd assume it's some kind of Baptist?) I've heard people say things like they follow the Old Testament more closely than the New…so they are like Baptist Jews for Jesus? Anyway, all the many, many of you who are far more knowledgeable and better-versed than I, I'm not clear on what exactly their batshittery is based and am genuinely curious to know (albeit not curious enough to go read their website or anything). (And anyway I'd rather hear it from you guys, in English.)

Edited July 14, 2015 by Aja

[Happyfatchick]

Aja, I'm not a Duggar, nor do I play one on TV, but I'll take a stab at it. I think originally the Duggs were considering themselves to be Independent Baptist. I think they may have attended a church that was IB when the kids were smaller, and that's where JB and Mechelle ran across Gothards teachings.* His seminars were wildly popular in the 70's, when Baptists were struggling with holding on to their roots with both hands. Burning secular books, burning records, etc. I was a youth in a Southern Baptist church then, and my mom (with her fierce grip on her roots) drug me to those seminars for my last 3 years of high school. Gothard keeps all his teachings just a hair far enough under the radar, and speaks very low and authoritatively. People (Christians) who were feeling the least bit uncertain were happy to follow his guides, as it gave them something they considered "solid" to root into - based on the Bible. He made it just simple enough to follow, but just hard enough to feel like you were part of an army of righteousness. (How PROUD was God going to be that we followed his Word???).

When the world at large was rocking all over the place with the Iran thing, Jimmy Carter, Led Zeplin at the same time America was learning that moms don't always stay home with their children and that children aren't Beaver Cleaver and that Father may not only not know best, but may skip out on you... It was just a time of uncertainty for everybody and a shift in paradigm. Baptists in general wanted no part of any shift in stinkin paradigm (we don't traditionally race toward change, I'm just saying). And the Independents hunkered down and dug in. (My oldest brother is Independent Baptist as we speak, and his beliefs are perfectly matched with JB as far as I can tell).

So anyway, originally, they were Independent Baptist as far as I know. Then Boob began his own church and became their "pastor" (in addition to being their chief counsel, their mentor, their father, their provider, etc). Probably if you had to nail them down, they would still claim IB as their religious preference. I heard on this board that Dericks "home" church is Southern Baptist. I also heard that this is where Amy and her mother attend; Amy is definitely not IB material.

*the IBLP seminars (Gothard) were never denomination specific.

Don't know if that helps at all, and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Happyfatchick

[SomePity1066]

Oh, My Flying Spaghetti Monster, such discourse !!! 

 

If Jesus showed up today (to quote Woody Allen, himself an unconvicted child molester)... "He'd never stop throwing up.".

 

I quite agree. The things done in the name of "Him" are arbitrary, cruel, wacky, mean, segregationist, xenophobic, and sometimes deadly.

 

Does it REALLY matter what color Jesus was ??? Not to me, not at all. Yes, I understand that He was most probably, if not definitely, dark, like me and my ancestors, mitigated by blond Danes to resemble more like Western Europeans, and He was more than likely close to black, but...honestly, who cares ?? He was JESUS, for heavens sake ! I hope he was purple. Or rainbow. He loved everyone, remember ??? Like, as in EVERYONE. He loved children, animals, the lepers, the sinners, and me as well. He forgave EVERYONE, most especially the worst sinners, if they truly, truly repented. Like the bad guys to the left and right of him on the cross ? They made their choices, but it was HIM that decided to forgive. That's his deal, you know. 

 

Would he be found cray-cray here in the 21st Century ? I'm not here to debate psychiatry, as it's not my field, but the psychopathology of someone revered as a prophet and The Son of God should not be taken lightly. Even if if I thought it was a crock of shit I'd be a bit more polite on treading on the souls of a billion (BILLION) Christians.

 

I dunno, but that's not for me to speculate on in something that borders on fan-fiction. I'd like to think he'd accept me, forgive my sins, many as they are, and just be a cool dude. I not sure which religion I'd adhere to here on PTV, but you are (and me !) ALL legitimately accepted, and welcome, as per the rules of the site and the mods. I'm a confused person who HAS religion, just not sure which one to park in as yet, but I'm convinced that whatever God I have, he loves me. And my dog. 

 

Enough fighting, y'all. 

 

Dear Jesus on a cracker riding in a side car, can't we all just agree to disagree, and not be passive/aggressive, please. Namaste.

 

PS: I'm afraid what I'm saying is mixing it up here too much. My apologies. 

 

Mea Culpa. Mea Culpa. Mea Maxima Culpa.  

 

It's all, good, y'all. 

[kokapetl]

What's the nature of Jesus's Miraculous Abilities? If he could do the impossible on command, and eventually to large audiences, he'd have no problem.

[GEML]

The thing about Independent Baptists is that each church community is just that - Independent. There is not a community or group that acts of one of accountability over them, even informally. The idea is that the deacons oversee the pastor and the pastor oversees the deacons and both are to handle the church congregation. In some congregations, the church Deacons and pastor make all the decisions. But in Gothard affiliated ones, they agree to put themselves under the "umbrella of authority" to a man up the Gothard food chain and also send money to the organization.

[mizkat]

The things done in the name of "Him" are arbitrary, cruel, wacky, mean, segregationist, xenophobic, and sometimes deadly.

 

And those things are exactly what He stands against. Humanity has obfuscated Jesus' message and love, mostly because humanity is fallible. To take this back to Duggardom, they've fallen into a legalistic and very hypocritical trap when it comes to their faith. Their legalism is a combination of Old Testament law and Pharisee attitude (the look at me I'm so modest/humble/righteous and you're-so-not type of mindset). There's also the added bonus of claiming to "suffer" for their faith. I'll infer that any criticism directed at them is translated to persecution and ultimately synthesized into "we must be on the right track, then". 

 

Faith is complicated. We live in a time of incredible confusion and smoke and mirrors. We've come to depend on the media for information, but today's media twists and lies and conflates and reports without fact checking all for the sake of ratings, clicks, and popularity. Add the selfie generation into that mix, where pictures can be altered and photoshopped beyond recognition, and it's no wonder there's a culture of distrust everywhere. The Duggars are definitely not what they appear to be, and if their goal is to "win" people to Christianity, their lack of transparency paired with hypocrisy and judging side eye are turning more people off than on. 

 

Actually, I have no idea what their goal is. I feel like now it's solely to stay in the spotlight, regardless of the consequences to their children. How non-Christian can you get? 

[Defrauder]

I think the Duggars like to spin that any criticism of them is an attack on Christianity which it isn't because the Duggars themselves personally are not synonymous with an entire religion.  The Duggars seem to like to try to avoid criticism of themselves by sidestepping it into 'an attack on Christianity' which is usually isn't.  For their brand of Christianity is not everyone's take on it and one can dislike the Duggars just for being Duggars.  

[GEML]

I don't think their goal is to win people to Christ or Gothardism. I think JB's goal is to make sure his family never leaves him. And the show is perfect towards that end.

[Aja]

Thanks, Happyfatchick! I was raised strict Lutheran, so I know zilch about fundamentalist/independent Baptist sects. That was really interesting. I find the whole thing fascinating, and love talking to people who have firsthand experience with it!

[NextIteration]

I think the Duggars like to spin that any criticism of them is an attack on Christianity which it isn't because the Duggars themselves personally are not synonymous with an entire religion.  The Duggars seem to like to try to avoid criticism of themselves by sidestepping it into 'an attack on Christianity' which is usually isn't.  For their brand of Christianity is not everyone's take on it and one can dislike the Duggars just for being Duggars.  

 

This is far from solely a Duggar phenomenon.

[carrps]

I remember the days when he used to rant and rave wearing a black biker's jacket. That was some great teevee! What floored me was when I found out that he was Rebecca DeMornay's father. Yikes!  As wacko as the Duggars' religious cult is, Gene Scott had them beat by a country mile. 

 

Actually, he's not. Her father was a Gene Scott-lite wannabe called Wally George. About all I remember about him is his giant mouth and platinum blond hair.

 

At this point, the phrase and its variants serve as a dogwhistle for me in letting me know that I probably will not like the person who says it.

 

I know a few people who live out the idealized theory... but they never actually say the words. They don't have to.

 

I completely agree with this. I used to post on Salon's old TableTalk message boards, and there was a regular poster whose tagline was "Don't tell me you're a Christian. Show me" -- or words to that effect.

 

This. Telling me you're a Christian tells me NOTHING about how "good" you are. If anything, as said above, most of the dogwhistles I hear tell me the opposite.

 

The Duggars are kings at this kind of gross Pharasitical behavior.

[GEML]

To be honest, I'm kind of over a lot of the "Show me" stuff as well. No one has to prove to me that they are a Christian - and it's a diverse enough religion that one person's actions in one culture might actually be offense in another and we can all live with that for the most part. The Pauline letters were written to different churches in different parts of the "world" at that time - read in that way, you can find which letter speaks to YOU and YOUR world and concentrate on that, and they become less of a contradiction of standards that is baffling to anyone reading from the outside.

[galax-arena]

To be honest, I'm kind of over a lot of the "Show me" stuff as well. No one has to prove to me that they are a Christian

It's not about setting out to prove something, since that (to me) still implies a sense of being more concerned that others think of you as this righteous Christian, it's simply about letting your actions speak louder than your words, as should be the case with anything in life. Why should I believe you when you tell me that you really don't hate me when none of your actions live up to that? (And yes, I know that the common rebuttal here is that their actions are loving.)

[Churchhoney]

I don't think their goal is to win people to Christ or Gothardism. I think JB's goal is to make sure his family never leaves him. And the show is perfect towards that end.

 

I saw an episode of Pit Bulls and Parolees the other day, on which somebody said: Scared dogs are the most dangerous. Just like scared people.

 

Out of Jim Bob's fear have risen many dangers.

[GEML]

But What is loving in one context is insulting in another. Ben's speech to young women is perfectly appropriate and even loving to young women who are only looking for marriage. Not wasting time with men who will toy with them and leave them hurting isn't smart. And there are men (even "Christian" men) who do that.

But in another context, even a Christian context, that's a message that is condescending and arrogant, which isn't Christian at all. That's the thing. It's not only the message, but the setting, the immediate need AND the messenger.

[Defrauder]

Thanks, Happyfatchick! I was raised strict Lutheran, so I know zilch about fundamentalist/independent Baptist sects. That was really interesting. I find the whole thing fascinating, and love talking to people who have firsthand experience with it!

Nice, same here sans the strict part.  Kind of a laid back Lutheran upbringning.  I had lots of friends from all kinds of various religions growing up but I never ran into any type of ultra conservative families.  When the Duggars first aired I was just intrigued by how a family so large could organize everything and after watching a handful of episodes here and there I didn't really believe they were truly happy.  It seemed to me like they were 'trained' to be happy or else.  Then when the Josh thing broke I felt my suspicions were confirmed.  I think Mechelle has trained herself to be happy under all circumstances and doesn't allow herself to feel any negative emotions.  I think they believe showing unhappiness 'shames their authorities and their Lord'.  

[Aja]

Nice, same here sans the strict part.  Kind of a laid back Lutheran upbringning.  I had lots of friends from all kinds of various religions growing up but I never ran into any type of ultra conservative families.  When the Duggars first aired I was just intrigued by how a family so large could organize everything and after watching a handful of episodes here and there I didn't really believe they were truly happy.  It seemed to me like they were 'trained' to be happy or else.  Then when the Josh thing broke I felt my suspicions were confirmed.  I think Mechelle has trained herself to be happy under all circumstances and doesn't allow herself to feel any negative emotions.  I think they believe showing unhappiness 'shames their authorities and their Lord'.  

My parents had pretty strong opinions about churches that were not solemn and Gregorian chant-y. (Not REAL Christians, etc etc etc same dance different song.) The ultra-fundamentalist people always seemed crazy and scary to me because of that. (Now they seem crazy and scary to me for an entirely different set of reasons.) 

[galax-arena]

But What is loving in one context is insulting in another. Ben's speech to young women is perfectly appropriate and even loving to young women who are only looking for marriage. Not wasting time with men who will toy with them and leave them hurting isn't smart. And there are men (even "Christian" men) who do that.

Let's be honest, this type of rhetoric today is now mostly trotted out when it comes to homosexuality. And like I said with my last sentence, I realize that the common rebuttal used here is that their actions are loving. But when the targets of your "love" are constantly telling you how unloving and toxic you really are, then perhaps it's time to rethink things. But the planks in these people's eyes won't let them.

 

Even celibate gay Christians who adhere to the traditional ethic [that gay sex is a sin] have come out saying that the church has been a hostile place for them. There's a controversy over this very issue going on right now, where a well known face of the celibate gay movement ("side B" in gay Christian parlance) abandoned ship yesterday and explained the church's attitude towards her as part of the reason why. While this did lead to soul-searching among some evangelicals who admitted that the church as a community had failed to model truly loving behavior towards gay Christians - including even those who believed as they did, that homosexuality was a sin- it's also led to a lot of defensive posturing among others: "Who, us? No, it's not our fault! We did nothing wrong! It's not our fault she didn't stay the course! It's hers! She was always a wolf in sheep's clothing!" And these are the same assholes insisting that they're being winsome and loving and speaking the truth in grace. No, no you're not. And when even the gay Christians who believe as you do re: sexuality are calling you out on it, maybe it's time to listen.

 

Anybody can insist that they're being loving. I can also insist that 2 + 2 = 5. Similarly, I could insist that I'm being ~loving towards the Duggars and other fundies by calling them out on this sort of bullshit, but unlike them I'm not into completely deluding myself. I'm not being loving, considering how much I hate them. 

 

ETA: Oh, and re: this -

 

But What is loving in one context is insulting in another. Ben's speech to young women is perfectly appropriate and even loving to young women who are only looking for marriage.

Okay, but Ben didn't specify that he was only talking to girls looking towards marriage, although knowing his sexist pea-brain he probably assumes that that's all girls want because all girls are into long-term romances and marriages tee hee. And even then there's a lot of arrogance to unpack.

 

But that's almost besides the point, because I don't think anyone's accusing Ben of being outright unloving with that particular instagram post, just that he's a sexist idiot with his assumptions. 

Edited July 14, 2015 by galax-arena

[Aja]

I don't need a 19 year old in a sideways baseball cap telling me what I ought to be doing with my vagina. Especially since said 19 year old would take one look at me and dismiss me as a lost and hellbound harlot quicker than you can say "Nike". Too old for purity balls and promise rings, too old to breed eleventy million kids, divorced. I'm worse than worthless in their world. Seriously, fuck these people and their loving Instagram posts.

[JennyMominFL]

Telling me you are a good Christian means nothing. As if Christians have a corner or morality. Good Christians are no better than good Jews, Good Muslims, Good Buddhists or good Atheists. Goodness isn't tied to religion and I'm tired of people assuming it is

Disclaimer, I  not  saying you guys do this ..The Duggars do

[Mindymoo]

I don't need a 19 year old in a sideways baseball cap telling me what I ought to be doing with my vagina. Especially since said 19 year old would take one look at me and dismiss me as a lost and hellbound harlot quicker than you can say "Nike". Too old for purity balls and promise rings, too old to breed eleventy million kids, divorced. I'm worse than worthless in their world. Seriously, fuck these people and their loving Instagram posts.

Same here. 28, a lesbian, infertile due to a hysterectomy, raised a Catholic until I became an atheist at the age of five. No way in hell would anything this clown has to say apply to me.

[Rhetorica]

I think too many people have forgotten God's greatest commandment: " Just play nice..."

[Satchels of gold]

I don't need a 19 year old in a sideways baseball cap telling me what I ought to be doing with my vagina. Especially since said 19 year old would take one look at me and dismiss me as a lost and hellbound harlot quicker than you can say "Nike". Too old for purity balls and promise rings, too old to breed eleventy million kids, divorced. I'm worse than worthless in their world. Seriously, fuck these people and their loving Instagram posts.

Will you gay marry me? I should have prefaced that with I'm not gay and I'm already married but I think I love you.

[Darknight]

Same here. 28, a lesbian, infertile due to a hysterectomy, raised a Catholic until I became an atheist at the age of five. No way in hell would anything this clown has to say apply to me.

Wow five? Off topic but how did you know you were atheist at that age,

[Aja]

Will you gay marry me? I should have prefaced that with I'm not gay and I'm already married but I think I love you.

Sure, I'll purpose to throw away a piece of my heart on you. <3

PS Your posts often encourage my heart also. <3

Edited July 14, 2015 by Aja

[Bella]

Wow five? Off topic but how did you know you were atheist at that age,

Not Mindy, but when I was 7, I figured out that there was no Santa because there were starving children in the news and no one would deliver toys to American children if other children were hungry. I then announced that if Santa was impossible, God was even more impossible. My parents had fun with that one!