S36.E15: Live Reunion Show

[Coco88]

From what I saw and came out it was Dom and Wendell were both each other’s meatshield.  That’s why they were in an alliance.  They both knew if one was gone, the other was in extreme danger.

In the episode where Angela wins Immunity, both Dom and Wendell are in danger and who does Michael want to target?  Wendell.  And he says he wants this because Dom is powerless and it’s important to get the biggest threat out.  

I’m pretty sure Kellyn and Sebastian both thought Dom was an ass.

Wendell’s two Immunity wins, finding an Idol, having better Jury management, being great at camp life are plenty fine reasons to vote for him.  Not letting Dom be louder than him wouldn’t win me my vote.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Coco88

[hyukx3]

23 minutes ago, Coco88 said:

From what I saw and came out it was Dom and Wendell were both each other’s meatshield.  That’s why they were in an alliance.  They both knew if one was gone, the other was in extreme danger.

In the episode where Angela win Immunity, both Dom and Wendell are in danger and who does Michael want to target?  Wendell.  And he says he wants this because Dom is powerless and it’s important to get the biggest threat out.  

I’m pretty sure Kellyn and Sebastian both thought Dom was an ass.

Wendell’s two Immunity wins, finding an Idol, having better Jury management, being great at camp life are plenty fine reasons to vote for him.  Letting Dom be louder than him wouldn’t win me my vote.

Did he really say or think Dom is powerless? Or did he meant would be? Also, does he really even believe that when he voted for Dom. First of all, we don't even know what's Kellyn's problem with Dom is. She even shushed him. In the episodes, they were fine. He was the one to warn her they were plotting against her. Seb's just too immature over Dom's act at tribal. Dom was not just loud. You're saying loud like it's without substance. But in the episodes, he was shown to be the one talking to people whilst Wendell hide behind him. He was the one seen talking to Chelsea, Kellyn, others. He brought over Laurel and Donathan. He was never offensive.

Edited May 25, 2018 by hyukx3

[MissEwa]

2 hours ago, hyukx3 said:

You didn't really compare Angela and Jenna, you just questioned my judgement.

I can't see which part of me you're quoting but my point had nothing to do with you specifically (although I did use your post as an example because it illustrated what I was talking about), but with the way that the 'bitter juror' criticism only ever seems to go one way, when in fact it's very possible that Dom got votes for less than exemplary game-play reasons too. You've said you think Angela doesn't know how to play and therefore we should somewhat discount her vote for Wendell. I'm saying we have zero evidence that Jenna knows the first thing about Survivor so her vote is possibly equally discountable. You clearly think Dom deserved the win and that's absolutely fine - I don't even really disagree. If he had got one more vote, he would have won and I'd have been happy about it because he played well. Wendell also played well and to me, deserved the win more *because he got the votes*. 

During the finale Stephen Fishbach tweeted "The #Survivor jury doesn't reward who played the best game. It determines who played the best game." and I think that's true - you need the jury votes to win. It's part of the game. If, for whatever reason, you don't get them then... you didn't play the best game. 

(Just my opinion, not questioning anyone's judgement, not calling anyone out, just... stating my views.)

[PreBabylonia]

On 2018-05-24 at 12:01 PM, el diego said:

I thought Wendell played a much better end game than Dom, and I think that is evidenced by who voted for who (first 5 voted Dom, last 5 voted Wendell). His move to give Laurel the idol and Sebastian + Angela the steaks might have won him the game in the end. On the surface it seems like Dom ran the whole strategic game, but as viewers we saw that they both ran it pretty equally (editing accuracy notwithstanding). After Wendell won the fire making I thought he had it in the bag but...

I thought Wendell's jury performance was just AWFUL. I haven't watched this show in a while, but I don't remember jury performances really having a huge impact in the end, but here I suspect it did. Wendell really needed a PR person. His gimmick to the jury should have been: I am the ideal survivor. Look at what it entails:

1. Social game: check. Nice to everyone, clean game, likeable.

2. Strategic game: check. Ran the game with Dom. Didn't need to say he was mastermind, but highlight that the moves that were made were his moves. Had an alliance from the start, tried to broker peace with Chris and Dom, when that didn't work formed an iron clad alliance that ran the show. Was able to save his idol to the end and then give it to an ally.

3. Camp life: check. Friendly around camp, made it better for everyone not just to be nice but also as a strategy to curry favour (people love stuff like that).

4. Challenges: check. Won multiple team rewards where he contributed massively. Used it to share the wealth. Won immunity twice towards the end when it mattered.

5. Fire making: CHECK! This would be how I would top it off. In the end was so strong that Dom was scared and put up his best ally for elimination because he knew that I was the real winner. And then I smashed the challenge, because true survivors know that fire making is essential (as dumb as it is that that determines who makes the finale). 

I wish we could know how many jurors had the final jury switch their vote because if I had to guess I'd say at least one, probable more, switched from Wendell to Dom.

ETA: I am not the least bit surprised that Chris voted for Dom. Before the final jury he was the only one I knew would definitely be voting for him.

I very much agree with this. Would have been fine with either Dom or Wendell winning but I myself would have voted for Wendell. Dom's battles with Chris would have indicated to me that he was a bit of a loose cannon and I would have been a little more careful about spending time with him leading up to the finals. Wendell came across as strong, reflective and concerned about everyone's welfare.

I was surprised that both of their final speeches weren't very good - but it probably had something to do with being tired out. In the past, it looked as if the final two or three had at least a day and a half to dismantle camp and unwind with booze and good food. Now it looks like a rush job - they are trying to prepare for final tribal that night and don't have time to appreciate their last moments. Given how close these three were, I would have expected much more of a celebratory feel to their return to camp.

On 2018-05-24 at 3:45 PM, ByaNose said:

Yeah, this reunion show really, really sucked. I know I’ve said that the last few years but this was really bad. A few minutes with the Final 3 and 24 hours with a Michael. LOL!!! Joking of course but I think Jeff thinks he is looking in a mirror when talking with Michael. I know he loves his alpha males but he was a little OTT with Michael. “Michael what is it about you that..........”.  Jeez! Get a room. I never got all the hype about him. Granted, he was 18, way mature for his age & good looking but I think in general he’s kinda bland. Maybe, it’s just me. Then you have Theeeee Kevin Hart. OMG!!! He’s an international movie star and he’s doing a rip off reality show. In one way it shows the power Survivor still has and it also shows how much Jeff and reunion show sucks. I’ll continue watching because I’m a huge fan. I just have to realize the reunion show will suck and has for many years. I would like to audition for Survivor but I’m over the age quota for this show. I’m 53. That’s basically ancient for Survivor. Season 37 airs in September and I think 38 is starting next week according to Jeff. The time 39 & 40 start I could be dead. LOL!!!!! See everyone in September for the stupid titled David vs Goliath. Never mind that the cast has woman, too. So dumb!!!!!

I keep thinking of him as Kevin Parks. I can't believe this is the comic that so many celebrities go on and on about. I will definitely be giving this version of Wipeout a miss. Doesn't even look funny, which was the highlight of the other show for me.

I wonder if a petition to restore the purpose of the reunion show would help? CBS would probably be ecstatic about any kind of free publicity at all. The show is definitely not watercooler worthy anymore. And agree that David vs. Goliath sounds dumb. And boring.

On 2018-05-24 at 5:00 PM, valandsend said:

Yes, and her prediction was correct.

Someone needs to tell Jeff, though, that it's not at all suspenseful to have a kid write in a large letters even when the front of the paper is not showing. It was obvious from her motions that she was writing "W ... E ... N ... D ... A ... L ... L".

Someone needs to tell Jeff and co. that it is not at all suspenseful or interesting or worth wasting time on, to see a child that we have no interest in, no connection to, make a guess about the eventual winner. Just pointless time wasting.

12 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Sebastian and Jenna are a known couple. They post all over the place. Bradley and Kellyn are clear on their relationship. Michael and Libby are the only couple in doubt.

Wow. Somebody would actually want to go out with him??? All I remember about Jenna is that she is a blonde with an overbite. Was she also the one that braided his hair, and he told her that she smelled badly, like snails? (I think it was snails). Right, I think I remember Bradley. He was the male version of Kellyn - equally annoying. That makes a perfect couple!

But my Michael? He deserves far far better than Libby! Although all I can remember about her is that she is an attractive blonde. She may have spoken once or twice on the show? If these relationships actually began on the show and not at Ponderosa, I would have liked to have seen it.

Agree with everyone else over how pointless this reunion has become. If this is the new reality, I am skipping all future reunions, once I know who has won.

[fishcakes]

3 hours ago, hyukx3 said:

Obviously, Wendell tried to be the good guy. He'll enthusiastically debate rap music with Des but she doesn't care. But he'll do chores with Seb so Seb gives him the vote. For me, survivor gameplay is mostly black and white. I'll leave the emotions out the door...mostly. I'll reward the best player.....as long as they are not ass. I don't think Dom is an ass. That satisfy my whole criteria. Best player + not ass. That's a win for me. Wendell is second best but nicer. But when I say not ass, that could mean nice as well. Just not as nice as Wendell.

Tony Vlachos was super crazy, was he ass? I find him super entertaining. Especially his llama talk to Kass. I just want you to be the best player and not be ass. If you're nicer to me or wanna discuss rap with me, that's cool. Unless you're total ass, I will leave my emotions out the door when I vote.

I just love this whole post and wish I could give it more than one heart.  I think I might even get a t-shirt that says:

Quote

That satisfy my whole criteria. Best player + not ass.

to wear while I watch Survivor.

[hyukx3]

10 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

I can't see which part of me you're quoting but my point had nothing to do with you specifically (although I did use your post as an example because it illustrated what I was talking about), but with the way that the 'bitter juror' criticism only ever seems to go one way, when in fact it's very possible that Dom got votes for less than exemplary game-play reasons too. You've said you think Angela doesn't know how to play and therefore we should somewhat discount her vote for Wendell. I'm saying we have zero evidence that Jenna knows the first thing about Survivor so her vote is possibly equally discountable. You clearly think Dom deserved the win and that's absolutely fine - I don't even really disagree. If he had got one more vote, he would have won and I'd have been happy about it because he played well. Wendell also played well and to me, deserved the win more *because he got the votes*. 

During the finale Stephen Fishbach tweeted "The #Survivor jury doesn't reward who played the best game. It determines who played the best game." and I think that's true - you need the jury votes to win. It's part of the game. If, for whatever reason, you don't get them then... you didn't play the best game. 

(Just my opinion, not questioning anyone's judgement, not calling anyone out, just... stating my views.)

I didn't bring up the vote validity argument, you did. Obviously, you should look at the part about Angela and Jenna. I was just talking about merits. I don't discount anybody's' vote. You can't affect how they vote. You can just question their decision. And frankly, Stephen's opinion is shit and stupid.

The statement is sooooo stupid. There's the one who played best. There's the one determined to play the best. The one determined the best was judged as so by the jurors, but they did not played the best, they were only determined so, but as such is the best, but did not played the best........and round and round and round.

It's just a lame way of saying "you played the best but we're gonna give somebody else the money so they are the best, they have superceded you as the best, but you played the best, we just don't wanna vote for you, we decide who's the best and it's not you but you played the best but you're not getting our votes so you are not the official winner so you cannot call yourself the best even though you played better".

You can square with that however you want. What I'm interested in is simply discussing merits. And I say Dom has more merit to winning than Wendell. Dom does more work gameplay wise. Wendell just wanna play nice. Now I won't say playing nice is not gameplay at all. It's totally part of it. But if Dom does more for his alliance and didn't piss people off, then as a fair juror, you should reward Dom over somebody you feel closer to. (Wow, can't believe I said that. I'll admit, I don't know if I could do what I preach). And only Laurel and Seb(and Dom) has a bond with Wendell.

But it doesn't matter because they didn't reward him for playing the best, so the guy that won the money is the official best, right? We don't need to discuss why Dom is not rewarded because Wendell is crowned the best, right?

14 minutes ago, PreBabylonia said:

 

 

 

Why wasn't Chris the loose cannon? He went after Dom first. Is it because of his vindictive attitude makes him seem like the victim and Dom's like "I'm gonna get this guy" makes him looks like a loose cannon? Dom's just has more fiery new yorker attitude.

[OldWiseOne]

6 hours ago, hyukx3 said:

And Don said Wendell was the second in command. And he wanted to play like Wendell. So he voted for Wendell. But there's a fallacy to that kind of thinking. If you're second in command, then you're not the best.

No one tells them to go vote for who is the best, they go to vote for who they want to win. Also best in this case is subjective - each person has their own definition of who played the best, and votes accordingly. Maybe I define best as "wasn't a jerk to me" or "won lots of challenges" or "worked hard around camp" or whatever. It's not hockey, there is no final score to definitively say this one was best and that one was second. Your opinion is that Dom's game was best, but the merits you base that on are subjective and your opinion.

[simplyme]

2 hours ago, hyukx3 said:

But it doesn't matter because they didn't reward him for playing the best, so the guy that won the money is the official best, right? We don't need to discuss why Dom is not rewarded because Wendell is crowned the best, right?

I think the problem here is using the term "best." Survivor has a winner. Whether that winner played the "best" game is going to depend on what any given individual prioritizes in strategy. For example, Ozzy almost always votes for a provider and strong physical force. Many viewers think Russell Hantz played one of the best games of Survivor ever, but others point out that that view overlooks the social aspect of Survivor, which he bombed. 

Best is debatable. The winner is not debatable. So there's a difference between what is the "best" game (opinion), and what is the winning strategy. 

And I think it's valid to speculate or comment on what may have influenced a juror's vote. However, since winning jury votes is the ACTUAL point of the game, I'm not sure they can by definition be wrong. If a finalist didn't get someone's vote, the finalist was the one who was unsuccessful. It is their job to get the vote.

I can personally think a juror is a moron or has ridiculous issues that a finalist has little chance in hell of overcoming, but that's part of the game. (I can name a few jurors I feel that way about, actually.) But the finalists still have to work with or around them. That's the game. Everything else: immunities, providing, conversations they had... Those are just the ways they can make their case to try to get the votes.

So in this case, IMO, Wendell is the winner. Who played the best game between Wendell and Dom is going to be personal preference.

Does that make sense?

ETA: And @OldWiseOne said this much faster and more succinctly than me. Doh!

Edited May 26, 2018 by simplyme

[LanceM]

10 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I'm wondering if CBS is really going to crack down on spoilers next season.  One contestant already got in hot water for posting on SM the day after the cast got home after being told not to (they posed with another contestant).  A newbie season is never, ever spoiled to the extent this one was so there had to be a leak somewhere in the cast.  My first thought was Jacob since he was bitter about his experience.  But maybe that's why Stephanie wasn't at the reunion and why everyone is ignoring the questions about where she was.  She was the leak!

FWIW, Stephanie  posted on instagram that she followed all the rules and that her absence from the reunion was due to "personal" reasons. So who knows.

[LanceM]

17 hours ago, laurakaye said:

 

I'm actually still kind of steamed that we didn't hear a word from Chelsea, Angela, Libby or Des during FTC or the reunion (except in response to Kellyn's poll...Kellyn, interestingly enough, was allowed to speak!).  They were practically edited out of the entire season - the majority of the female confessions came from Laurel and Kellyn.  If the powers that be found them so incredibly boring, how did they get cast in the first place?  I swear I don't remember a season where 25% of the cast was ignored like this.

The funny thing is that according to Domenick in this interview below, Chelsea asked him a question that apparently took him by surprise. But nope they can't show us that.

https://www.realitytvworld.com/news/exclusive-domenick-abbate-talks-survivor-ghost-island-his-brutal-loss-and-if-he-found-jury-bitter-24029.php

"I thought maybe Chelsea felt this or she was upset because of this reason, and then to hear her ask me a different question, it threw me off my game a little bit. I really didn't anticipate certain gripes that people had with me, so I think that was one of the things that surprised me most." 
 

Edited May 26, 2018 by LanceM

[Oscirus]

Go rewatch, the Kellyn boot when he was running the show and tell me Wendell wasn't doing anything.  It says something when the people outside of the alliance/ on the fringe vote differently from the people actually in the alliance. This bitter jury talk is foolish, they have just as much reason to be bitter with Wendell as they do with Dom since they played the exact same game.

[hyukx3]

5 hours ago, OldWiseOne said:

No one tells them to go vote for who is the best, they go to vote for who they want to win. Also best in this case is subjective - each person has their own definition of who played the best, and votes accordingly. Maybe I define best as "wasn't a jerk to me" or "won lots of challenges" or "worked hard around camp" or whatever. It's not hockey, there is no final score to definitively say this one was best and that one was second. Your opinion is that Dom's game was best, but the merits you base that on are subjective and your opinion.

People can vote for who they want. I get that. It's like their rights. And you can't go against people's rights kind of thing. I'm just dissecting their decisions and merits. If you say he's second in command, then he has the second best resume. He's not as visible out there as Dom. Obviously, they were both save with immunities and idols. So all that's left is to put yourself out there more so you have the better resume. I'm just questioning his logic.

 

2 hours ago, Oscirus said:

Go rewatch, the Kellyn boot when he was running the show and tell me Wendell wasn't doing anything.  It says something when the people outside of the alliance/ on the fringe vote differently from the people actually in the alliance. This bitter jury talk is foolish, they have just as much reason to be bitter with Wendell as they do with Dom since they played the exact same game.

Kellyn wasn't a strong alliance to the foursome. She was always looking to make something of her own against the boys. Seb felt Wendell was a brother. Don thought Wendell was second in command. Chelsea...still poker face. Laurel has a deep bond with Wendell. So you're not correct with that assessment.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, hyukx3 said:

 If you say he's second in command, then he has the second best resume.

I don’t think this is necessarily true.   If two people align and one comes out with more blood on their hands in the end, that’s not usually better.  

[Coco88]

I took Donathan second in command comment to mean that Dominic was the louder, bossier of the two.  You totally see it in the Kellyn boot.  Wendell is whispering in people’s ears and Dom is barking “Stick to the plan”

[peachmangosteen]

16 hours ago, MissEwa said:

Yep. I think this is a thing Linda Holmes (MissAlli) wrote about years ago - that from talking to Survivor jurors, absolutely 100% the biggest factor in who they give a million dollars to is just... who they like more. 

Oh damn, there's certifiable proof straight from actual jury members that people just vote for who they like more? Perfect. Because I have always maintained that is literally what is always comes down to.

10 hours ago, OldWiseOne said:

No one tells them to go vote for who is the best, they go to vote for who they want to win. Also best in this case is subjective - each person has their own definition of who played the best, and votes accordingly. Maybe I define best as "wasn't a jerk to me" or "won lots of challenges" or "worked hard around camp" or whatever. It's not hockey, there is no final score to definitively say this one was best and that one was second. Your opinion is that Dom's game was best, but the merits you base that on are subjective and your opinion.

Also this.

7 hours ago, Oscirus said:

This bitter jury talk is foolish ...

It always is.

This whole discussion of Wendell just being the quieter, more utr member but still playing just as good a game as Dom made me think about how if Wendell was a woman then he almost certainly would not have won.

[Coco88]

14 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

This whole discussion of Wendell just being the quieter, more utr member but still playing just as good a game as Dom made me think about how if Wendell was a woman then he almost certainly would not have won.

Probably.  But I also don’t think Dom would have won if he was a woman because he would have been seen as a bitch

[Ms Blue Jay]

I was travelling when this finale aired, so I didn't really get to read and post along and react and enjoy all of your posts like I always like to do.  Eventually I hope to catch up.  

I want to say, at Tribal Council, when Jeff SHOCKED everyone at Tribal Council and at home that he would read the votes immediately and NONE OF US WERE PREPARED, and then it was a back and forth even split between Dom and Wendell, -- and then when Laurel's vote was finally read and it was revealed that Wendell had won -- WOW.

I was crying, I was applauding, I was shaking.  It really really affected me.  It was like nothing I'd ever seen.  I really truly mean that.  

The firemaking challenge as well.  I was RIVETED.  I thought it was remarkable television.  I was screaming and clapping and bouncing off of the walls.  It was just so damn exciting.

I really honestly want to say I think that Survivor did a fantastic job with the finale - I don't know how they could have possibly predicted the ties, who knows, it could all just be luck of the draw - but whatever or however it happened I thought that was the best finale I've seen in many shows in ages.  

I just came away thinking, Survivor is possibly the greatest still airing show today, and I honestly mean that.  It's definitely up there.  It's definitely somewhere in my Top 10 of all time but man in really blew me away on Wednesday.  

Credit to this show as well, I watch some other reality television, and often the winner gets spoiled through social media (COUGH COUGH BACHELOR/BACHELORETTE) or through my own stupidity (unfortunately, having coworkers who spoil this stuff even though I don't want them to, or not watching live and then somehow landing right in the middle of a reveal, etc.) I'm just glad that Survivor is one of the shows where this kind of things doesn't happen to me and I'm allowed to be completely surprised.  I loved it.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 5/24/2018 at 7:35 AM, alexa said:

I didn't want a full reunion, but I was disappointed that I actually liked the final 3 and much of this cast and they didn't get anything more than one minute of time.  Last year I hated the season so much and they spent much more time with people I didn't care to see.  It just seemed bad to have them all sitting there virtually ignored, and I would have liked for them to have a chance to say a few things.  

Agreed.  Lots of complaints about this season - and I get it - but it was nice and warm and fuzzy for me because I pretty much LIKED all of the cast.  Not outright LOVE, like the way I feel about, say Tai, or Michaela, etc. - but LIKE.  And I didn't hate ANYONE.  Everything was medium all of the time, and that's why I enjoyed this season.  It's a bunch of pretty much likeable people.  I know we all hated Bradley at the beginning but looking back I think it was just really fun, as well, to hate him.  Which definitely some people here pointed out.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 5/24/2018 at 12:30 PM, Eolivet said:

So, bring on 37! And also: let this be the last we ever speak of Naviti Strong ever again.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!  You really capped your post off beautifully here

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 5/24/2018 at 2:11 PM, piequinn35 said:

It was Angela's fault, they had a chance to boot Dom with the extra vote, Angela looked really nice at FTC.

In Jeff's interviews, did he like this season very much? Or no because Dom lost?

People keep blaming Angela but I think it also should be giving credit to Dom (and possibly Wendell).  Dom had Angela wrapped around his finger.  D&W did a great job playing this game.  Sublime, even.

P.S. WHO ARE THE 3 COUPLES you guys are talking about?

On 5/25/2018 at 12:21 PM, Neveragain said:

Bradley and Kellyn ??  

What?!!?!?!?!?!?

WHO WAS JACOB????? LOL

Edited May 26, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[himela]

Was this the first final tribal council where half the jury didn't even speak?

I think Jeff has started getting tired with Survivor. It doesn't make sense to have a jury and not show them even ask at least one question each or make one comment. It doesn't make sense to speak to only 5 people in the "reunion show". I mean, he disregarded last season and this season but we are expected to watch next season and the seasons to come? When even the presenter and producer of the show does not even care for it? What a joke...

[Oscirus]

8 hours ago, hyukx3 said:

Kellyn wasn't a strong alliance to the foursome. She was always looking to make something of her own against the boys. Seb felt Wendell was a brother. Don thought Wendell was second in command. Chelsea...still poker face. Laurel has a deep bond with Wendell. So you're not correct with that assessment.

That's good and all that, but that still doesn't hide the fact that none of Doms  votes came from inside his alliance while all of Wendell's did.  If you cant get votes from the people who know you the best then that's problematic and no you don't deserve to win if you cant do that.

 

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

This whole discussion of Wendell just being the quieter, more utr member but still playing just as good a game as Dom made me think about how if Wendell was a woman then he almost certainly would not have won.

It's the  Russel vs Natalie debate all over again.

[Wings]

On 5/24/2018 at 5:36 PM, Rachel RSL said:

On 5/24/2018 at 3:49 PM, princelina said:

I agree but I still think it would be a great gimmick for a season!  Everything just like season 1!  And it would give them an excuse to show old clips too!

This is my dream. Like, if they literally did everything the same from season one. Same amount of rations. Same tools. Same challenges. Same rewards. Even right down to when Probsts would show up at camp and bring them things to practice with for the upcoming challenges.

That is my wish, too.  We saw much more of them at camp as well.  Production is phoning it in now.  They have their cushy accommodations complete with a chef.  They have, in essence, retired in Figi and have a hobby that is Survivor.  The crews do a lot of work but Jeff just shows up and says "Come on in guys." 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Wings

[Ms Blue Jay]

I still think it's okay to have subjectively different opinions over who played the game better, or whose gameplay you enjoyed more, even though somebody got less votes than another.    Obviously I understand that between Dom and Wendell, Wendell played the game 'better' because he got more votes, but a difference in 1 vote only shows a slight difference.  I'll never come away liking Natalie as a better player than Russell even though the votes don't lie. I still vastly preferred Russell's gameplay.  That's what makes the game and our opinions so interesting.  Everyone has different opinions on what is good gameplay or how we'd prefer people would play.  I.e. Some people were really turned off by Des rifling through someone's bag.   I still don't even see how there's a marked difference between Dom and Wendell's gameplay, I definitely don't think we were shown enough.  I have this feeling Dom might have done a lot behind the scenes that we didn't see, but perhaps Wendell did too and my own biases about Dom's personality are clouding my judgement.  And apparently Dom could have turned off parts of the jury in other ways.  Who knows.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[ratgirlagogo]

2 hours ago, himela said:

Was this the first final tribal council where half the jury didn't even speak?

No, starting with Season 34 GameChangers  they ditched the format of each jury member putting forward a question and did this roundtable discussion thing instead.  But this season was without a doubt the first tribal REUNION where 90% of the PLAYERS didn't speak.

[himela]

4 minutes ago, ratgirlagogo said:

No, starting with Season 34 GameChangers  they ditched the format of each jury member putting forward a question and did this roundtable discussion thing instead.  But this season was without a doubt the first tribal REUNION where 90% of the PLAYERS didn't speak.

I'm sure that all jury members got to speak but it was not shown which I find ridiculous and disrespectful.

[peachmangosteen]

6 hours ago, Coco88 said:

Probably.  But I also don’t think Dom would have won if he was a woman because he would have been seen as a bitch

Good point.

3 hours ago, Oscirus said:

It's the  Russel vs Natalie debate all over again.

Dom was nowhere near the asshole Russell is and he certainly wasn't as hated. He got half the votes! I have no doubt that if it was Dom vs. Wendella then Wendella would be called a coattail rider and Dom would've won.

Edited May 26, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[violet and green]

21 hours ago, MissEwa said:

During the finale Stephen Fishbach tweeted "The #Survivor jury doesn't reward who played the best game. It determines who played the best game."

That is just bollocks! The Survivor Jury sometimes determines who  played the best game and rewards them, sometimes it knows full well who played the best game, but despises them so rewards some more pleasant semi-nonentity, sometimes it gets manipulated by a sobstory and rewards that over someone's better game, and sometimes it just gives the win to the woman who bursts into tears - but also often it is a bitter, bitter jury and it gives the win to someone, anyone else that is vaguely plausible.

This was a half-bitter jury, who I think Kellyn rallied. Boy was she bitter, and pinchnosed, all final tribal. Not a trace of the cutesy in that performance. Bitter and haughty and angry and supercilious, but I digress!

Half of them preferred Wendell's personality, and thought he played a good and less offensive game; half of them gave their vote to Dom despite grievances, out of respect for his game.

But for whatsisname to say that is just ludicrous - you don't 'determine' who wins via your emotions, for one thing. That was a split vote, that Wendell then went on to win on, out of Laurel's soppy loyalty, that cost her and many others their game. I don't call emotional decisions determinations.

Edited May 26, 2018 by violet and green
edit to add

[MissEwa]

14 minutes ago, violet and green said:

you don't 'determine' who wins via your emotions, for one thing.

Except that... they do? I mean, the jury votes on whatever they criteria they want and the jury determines the winner so their emotions obviously do determine the winner. The 'best game' thing is more grey, but I fall on the side that part of the 'best game' is getting the jury votes. YMMV.

17 minutes ago, violet and green said:

Half of them preferred Wendell's personality, and thought he played a good and less offensive game; half of them gave their vote to Dom despite grievances, out of respect for his game.

Or maybe some of Dom's votes were from people who preferred his personality? Maybe some of them were bitter towards Wendell? I just don't get the 'everyone who voted for X did it because *good reason* and everyone who voted for Y did it because *bad reason*' pronouncements, when everyone voted for their own (ALL perfectly valid, in the scope of the game) reasons, that we will never fully know, and probably there are good ones and bad ones on both sides.

I liked Dom. I would have been happy with his win. He played a really good game. From the edit we saw, Dom and Wendell were very, very evenly matched in every way - including jury votes. He got as close as anybody ever has to winning without actually winning. From the sounds of it, Dom put on a huge show at the F6 TC that alienated a few jurors and that cost him the game - in the  same way that Angela's not being able to make fire cost her the game, or Wendell's not calling out Jeff's name at the F7 IC could have cost him the game. Getting jury votes is part of the game, and Dom made a mistake and it cost him.

[violet and green]

5 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

Except that... they do? I mean, the jury votes on whatever they criteria they want and the jury determines the winner so their emotions obviously do determine the winner. 

I was thinking of the term determine in its meaning of intellectual determination, ie "ascertain or establish exactly by research or calculation" as per one definition. But I take your meaning here, also.

I think the jury rewards whoever they reward, for complex emotional reasons, in many instances.

I also don't know why I even care enough to get steamed up by something dumb yet portentous said by Fishbach!

[Oscirus]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Dom was nowhere near the asshole Russell is and he certainly wasn't as hated. He got half the votes! I have no doubt that if it was Dom vs. Wendella then Wendella would be called a coattail rider and Dom would've won.

I don't know. Looking at the demographics of this jury, I kind of get the feeling it would have been a win for Wendella in that scenario. Dudes rarely get the win for playing nice. Most of the winners out here tend to be aggressive/ in your face like Dom.

45 minutes ago, violet and green said:

This was a half-bitter jury, who I think Kellyn rallied. Boy was she bitter, and pinchnosed, all final tribal. Not a trace of the cutesy in that performance. Bitter and haughty and angry and supercilious, but I digress!

 I hear this about Kellyn, but IMO, Michael  was more obnoxious in my book.  Kellyn and her eye rolling is one thing but when you're openly advocating for someone else down to making the argument for them and  interrupting the other contender every time they speak, then it gets ridiculous.

[MissEwa]

8 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Oh damn, there's certifiable proof straight from actual jury members that people just vote for who they like more? Perfect. Because I have always maintained that is literally what is always comes down to.

I feel like I'd get blasted for this on any boards but if I was playing Survivor - it's a million dollars, like HECK I'm giving it to someone I don't like. I'd rationalise it, of course, even to myself, but honestly? It's a no-brainer (literally). 

I tend to think as much as it gets dressed up, these jury votes always come down to emotion and the personality of the members of the jury. Maybe it's not always 'who I like more' but I do think it's always about the juror. Did Chris really vote for Dom because he made a calculation of all the moves in the game and decided Dom was better? Or did voting for the person who personally bested him make him feel like he was taking the high ground and being a GOOD person? The best FTC performances have always been the ones where it feels like the finalist knows exactly which members of the juror need to hear what - I cut you because you would have won, I didn't want to cut you but *that guy* insisted and at the time I couldn't do anything, cutting you was a mistake and I'm sorry, absolutely if you had made it to F4 I would have taken you, etc. etc. - It's all about making the juror feel good about their vote. 

[hyukx3]

5 hours ago, Oscirus said:

That's good and all that, but that still doesn't hide the fact that none of Doms  votes came from inside his alliance while all of Wendell's did.  If you cant get votes from the people who know you the best then that's problematic and no you don't deserve to win if you cant do that.

 

It's the  Russel vs Natalie debate all over again.

It was an alliance of 4 and only Don was on the jury and he thinks Wendell was second in command.

 

30 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

I don't know. Looking at the demographics of this jury, I kind of get the feeling it would have been a win for Wendella in that scenario. Dudes rarely get the win for playing nice. Most of the winners out here tend to be aggressive/ in your face like Dom.

 I hear this about Kellyn, but IMO, Michael  was more obnoxious in my book.  Kellyn and her eye rolling is one thing but when you're openly advocating for someone else down to making the argument for them and  interrupting the other contender every time they speak, then it gets ridiculous.

You have to see objectively how Dom played. He wasn't wild like Tony Vlachos or an ass like Russell. Have you seen how he behaved when the Bradley thing went down, how he talked to Chelsea and Kellyn and how he talks to Angela? I think calling him an ass(while may be your opinion) sounds like an excuse, based on the edits.

Again, because of your perception of Dom, you also see Michael in a bad light. I don't remember Michael interrupting anybody. He spoke up always near the end of someone else's point. They have done away with speeches already. It's an open forum now, which means open discussion, talking openly. What about when Dom interjects Wendell and invoked Don to tell the truth? Wendell was telling a moot point, might as well interject yourself.

11 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I don’t think this is necessarily true.   If two people align and one comes out with more blood on their hands in the end, that’s not usually better.  

It's only blood is you're an asshole.

[hyukx3]

On a different topic, I agree that if either Dom or Wendell were female, they would have lost. It's the deep-rooted patriarchy society that causes these perceptions. I've said before that even Laurel played better than Wendell. Even Don had a chance to win. I know I can be objective. I can look at myself. But then again, it's all opinions on a game that is about social.

[himela]

9 minutes ago, hyukx3 said:

On a different topic, I agree that if either Dom or Wendell were female, they would have lost. It's the deep-rooted patriarchy society that causes these perceptions.

Well Sarah played a similar game and she won.

I agree with Brent Wolgamott from Rhap; the hidden immunity idols are placed this way as to be found by men rather than women. It's rare that a woman will go for fire wood or if she does it will be a sign she is looking for an idol. I don't like hidden immunity idols to be honest. It would be better to have one idol in one random reward and only when it's played to put it in another random reward. But let it be really unexpected and random like in a bottle or in the handkerchief. Then it will be fair. And stop it with advantages already. I like the wtf moments but it's not worth it when the whole game changes.

[peachmangosteen]

9 hours ago, himela said:

Well Sarah played a similar game and she won.

I don't remember the particulars of that season. Actually I barely remember it at all so maybe I'm misremembering Sarah's game, but I don't think it was much like Dom/Wendell's. Plus she was up against a big asshole that no one liked and a complete dud who did nothing, i.e. she had a much better social game than her competitors and the social game is usually (always) the biggest factor.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, himela said:

It's rare that a woman will go for fire wood

If women really don’t bother, whether to get wood or as idol hunting cover, then they deserve to not find idols.  The show isn’t favoring men, it’s favoring people willing to play.  

Wow, in the last four seasons 26 idols have been found and only ONE was by a woman?  That’s crazy.  Women need to start the game collecting wood.  I suppose it’s in our nature to focus more on the social game but still.  I don’t think the show needs to start hiding idols in the rice to change this.   

[himela]

1 minute ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

If women really don’t bother, whether to get wood or as idol hunting cover, then they deserve to not find idols.  The show isn’t favoring men, it’s favoring people willing to play.  

Wow, in the last four seasons 26 idols have been found and only ONE was by a woman?  That’s crazy.  Women need to start the game collecting wood.  I suppose it’s in our nature to focus more on the social game but still.  I don’t think the show needs to start hiding idols in the rice to change this.   

I didn't mean that women don't care to play the game thus gather wood rather that the women are more likely to stay at camp and cook and then wash clothes or do the dishes. Men due to being stronger are expected to go gather wood and cut it for the fire. So a woman who will start searching for wood on the first day will immediately be a red flag that she's looking for the idol.

[Guest]

Hm, yeah, I see it that way, too.  But I think I would be willing to risk being seen as potentially looking for an idol than remove my chance of ever finding one by sticking to the usual gender roles out there. 

Though I think I would hate looking for idols, because all that poking around in tiny spaces is a great way to find creepy crawlies.  Maybe that's another reason the women hang back more. 

This is interesting, I'd never heard this statistic.  The show should do something like make the idols less of a jungle hunt thing and more of a mental challenge?  I miss back in Gabon (?) when someone would have to collect multiple clues to an idol before they could find it, and it took some smarts to do so even then.  And you had to get sent to exile to be in the running, so it didn't matter your gender, no one was watching.

[LanceM]

The women go and gather firewood. I am not sure where this idea they don't comes from?  Chelsea mentions that she was doing just that in order to go look for idols. I believe Stephanie mentioned that as well. I think the men might be a little more aggressive looking for the idols which might explain why they end up finding them more frequently.

Edited May 27, 2018 by LanceM

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

 

I thought Wendell's jury performance was just AWFUL. I haven't watched this show in a while, but I don't remember jury performances really having a huge impact in the end, but here I suspect it did. Wendell really needed a PR person. His gimmick to the jury should have been: I am the ideal survivor. Look at what it entails:

1. Social game: check. Nice to everyone, clean game, likeable.

2. Strategic game: check. Ran the game with Dom. Didn't need to say he was mastermind, but highlight that the moves that were made were his moves. Had an alliance from the start, tried to broker peace with Chris and Dom, when that didn't work formed an iron clad alliance that ran the show. Was able to save his idol to the end and then give it to an ally.

3. Camp life: check. Friendly around camp, made it better for everyone not just to be nice but also as a strategy to curry favour (people love stuff like that).

4. Challenges: check. Won multiple team rewards where he contributed massively. Used it to share the wealth. Won immunity twice towards the end when it mattered.

5. Fire making: CHECK! This would be how I would top it off. In the end was so strong that Dom was scared and put up his best ally for elimination because he knew that I was the real winner. And then I smashed the challenge, because true survivors know that fire making is essential (as dumb as it is that that determines who makes the finale). 

 

Late on this but I wouldn't say Wendell's jury performance was so AWFUL. I think some of the jury members seemed surprisingly aggressive towards him, looking at you Michael and it made him a little flustered. And he definitely fumbled in saying he was the mastermind in bringing in Laurel and Donathan because of course it allowed Donathan to quickly say, "uh yeah no, Dom was the one who came to us". That said, I do think he mentioned and referenced a lot of what you listed there. Again, with this new jury format which I hate, it allowed those who like I said, seemed to be a bit aggressive towards him, to sort of unfairly jump on him for some of what he said. 

For example I was a little annoyed when Des interrupted him to snootily say how just because they discussed rap music it didn't mean she would vote to give him a million dollars. And that obviously was not what Wendell was saying but at the point, the Final 3 was supposed to be addressing how they played the social aspect of the game.  And Wendell was explaining, very well I felt, how he played said social aspect and created individual bonds with people, especially because I think Michael (again, what the hell was his issue with Wendell) had at that point stated how Wendell never really spoke to him, suggesting he didn't have any social game with him. I thought Wendell's saying how he made sure his tribe was strong and comfortable which helped with challenges, which helped keep him from having to go to tribal council too much before the merge and then finding ways to bond with a number of individuals was a very good and fair response to the social aspect of the game. 

Regarding the stuff with Chris and Dom, again, he did address this and brought it up as part of his strategy. But again, someone like Chris had his mind clear on Dom already so anything Wendell said was dismissed or twisted. Like when he said Chris and Dom were going at it on a Day 1 and Chris came to him on Day 2 about getting rid of Dom and he was thinking, "okay, calm down, it's only Day 2" and Chris muttered in the jury, "um hello, it's Survivor". So in Chris' mind that alone meant that Wendell wasn't playing the game as hard as Dom and that's not necessarily the case. Wendell likely just knew that in those early days, create alliances and connections sure but focus on tribal unity/immunity so you stay out of tribal council.

Edited May 27, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[kassandra8286]

18 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

And Wendell was explaining, very well I felt, how he played said social aspect and created individual bonds with people, especially because I think Michael (again, what the hell was his issue with Wendell) had at that point stated how Wendell never really spoke to him, suggesting he didn't have any social game with him

I don't think whether or not you played a good social game is something you can convince a jury of by the time FTC rolls around. Good social game is in the eye of the beholder, whether or not they feel a connection to you is up to them to decide, not for you to convince them of. It's based on emotion, not really subject to logical arguments. Chrissy tried the same thing and it didn't go over well for her either. If jurors felt snubbed by her, her reminding them of "that one time we totally bonded" wasn't going to change their minds. I mean clearly Wendell did play a very decent social game, both as a provider and a nice guy, but if the five who didn't vote for him liked Dom better, there wasn't much Wendell could have done at that point. It's one reason I don't like the new jury format with it's forced constructs of "outwit, outplay, outlast".

[Guest]

1 hour ago, LanceM said:

The women go and gather firewood. I am not sure where this idea they don't comes from?  Chelsea mentions that she was doing just that in order to go look for idols. I believe Stephanie mentioned that as well. I think the men might be a little more aggressive looking for the idols which might explain why they end up finding them more frequently.

That was my thought at first then I googled and read that thing about only 1 of the last 26 idols (it might be 28 now, that was on reddit in April) found was by a woman, and I thought that's too significant to not have an explanation.  I think over the entire show it's around 18% of idols were found by women, which isn't as bad.  Still, I think it's significantly different from 50% enough to have a behavioral explanation.  (I don't believe cameramen point them out to show favs, either.)

[Oscirus]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

ate on this but I wouldn't say Wendell's jury performance was so AWFUL. I think some of the jury members seemed surprisingly aggressive towards him, looking at you Michael and it made him a little flustered. And he definitely fumbled in saying he was the mastermind in bringing in Laurel and Donathan because of course it allowed Donathan to quickly say, "uh yeah no, Dom was the one who came to us". That said, I do think he mentioned and referenced a lot of what you listed there. Again, with this new jury format which I hate, it allowed those who like I said, seemed to be a bit aggressive towards him, to sort of unfairly jump on him for some of what he said. 

That's definitely part of it. However I do think he failed the beginning part when he was trying to be like Dom. He was never going to be able to out dom Dom. Once he settled in and got back to his own message he was much much better.

[Oscirus]

2 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

That was my thought at first then I googled and read that thing about only 1 of the last 26 idols (it might be 28 now, that was on reddit in April) found was by a woman, and I thought that's too significant to not have an explanation.  I think over the entire show it's around 18% of idols were found by women, which isn't as bad.  Still, I think it's significantly different from 50% enough to have a behavioral explanation.  (I don't believe cameramen point them out to show favs, either.)

It's weird because apparently Jenna found Wendell's fake idol in the same place that Wendell found the real one but since she was too slow, she didn't benefit.  It might just be a aggressiveness thing.  You see players like Stephen and even Jacob this season  searching for idols the moment they hit the beach. Don't know any female players who were so noticeable that early. They tend to be more subtle with it. 

[simplyme]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

For example I was a little annoyed when Des interrupted him to snootily say how just because they discussed rap music it didn't mean she would vote to give him a million dollars. And that obviously was not what Wendell was saying...

Huh. It's interesting how two people can interpret an interaction differently. I read that whole exchange as Wendell asserting that yes, he had a social game equal to Dom's and using the conversation with Des as an example and Des speaking up to say that yes, they had conversations, but they weren't meaningful ones about the game and strategy. It isn't just having conversations with people that matter, it's having the *right* conversations. For Des, she may have enjoyed talking about rap, but she felt her social bond with Dom was tighter because they talked more about the game, which were the right, meaningful conversations to build closer ties.

18 hours ago, MissEwa said:

I tend to think as much as it gets dressed up, these jury votes always come down to emotion and the personality of the members of the jury. Maybe it's not always 'who I like more' but I do think it's always about the juror. 

Yes. This 100%. I tend to think of it as each juror voting for who they least mind losing Survivor to. It's a bit about keeping your ego intact.

Edited May 27, 2018 by simplyme

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, kassandra8286 said:

I don't think whether or not you played a good social game is something you can convince a jury of by the time FTC rolls around. Good social game is in the eye of the beholder, whether or not they feel a connection to you is up to them to decide, not for you to convince them of. It's based on emotion, not really subject to logical arguments. Chrissy tried the same thing and it didn't go over well for her either. If jurors felt snubbed by her, her reminding them of "that one time we totally bonded" wasn't going to change their minds. I mean clearly Wendell did play a very decent social game, both as a provider and a nice guy, but if the five who didn't vote for him liked Dom better, there wasn't much Wendell could have done at that point. It's one reason I don't like the new jury format with it's forced constructs of "outwit, outplay, outlast".

This is all well and good and in some ways falls in line with my point that it wasn't necessarily that Wendell's jury performance was awful but that some of the jury already had their minds made up between him and Dom. My point though is, the portion of the tribal council was for each player to address how they played the social game. How is explaining how he built individual relationships or bonds with various players, kept his tribe happy and comfortable NOT answering and addressing the question? Is that not the social game - have people like you, don't ruffle feathers, don't piss people off, make friends, etc. 

 

28 minutes ago, simplyme said:

Huh. It's interesting how two people can interpret an interaction differently. I read that whole exchange as Wendell asserting that yes, he had a social game equal to Dom's and using the conversation with Des as an example and Des speaking up to say that yes, they had conversations, but they weren't meaningful ones about the game and strategy. It isn't just having conversations with people that matter, it's having the *right* conversations. For Des, she may have enjoyed talking about rap, but she felt her social bond with Dom was tighter because they talked more about the game, which were the right, meaningful conversations to build closer ties.

Once again, I have no issues with Des' voting for Dom. My point is, I thought it was a bit rude to dismissively act like Wendell was suggesting she vote for him because they talked about rap music when clearly he was answering the question of how he played the social part of the game and doing so by showing how he built or at least tried to build individual bonds with various people. Again, is that not part of the social aspect of the game? And I'm sure Wendell had strategy and game conversations when need be but again, his response was to focus on the social element.

Other players in the past have been attacked for too much strategy talk and no emotion or empathy - see someone like Spencer. And I remember for Redemption Island that Andrea and a few others stressed Rob's having normal, individual conversations with them. Andrea mentioning how she and Rob spent hours building a day bed one day just because and spent the time talking about nothing too important. And guess what, she said it worked because most of the tribe really all thought they had an individual bond with Rob while of course he couldn't give a crap about most of them. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[himela]

I don't like Dom and I think he was a bullying type. I am very happy he didn't win. I had picked Laurel and Wendell before the show started as my favorites and I am happy the one of them was the winner and the other one was the one to determine the winner. I like it when best strategists win but imo Dom was unlikeable and fake. Whenever he was trying to be soft and sweet with someone I thought he was condescending. Like he was playing a role. It's weird that I never realized I actually picked the two African American people and it's interesting that I did and that their bond was what determined the winner. :)

[Earlfor1]

48 minutes ago, himela said:

I don't like Dom and I think he was a bullying type. I am very happy he didn't win. I had picked Laurel and Wendell before the show started as my favorites and I am happy the one of them was the winner and the other one was the one to determine the winner. I like it when best strategists win but imo Dom was unlikeable and fake. Whenever he was trying to be soft and sweet with someone I thought he was condescending. 

I noticed that the people who spent the least amount of time in the game voted for him to win. The ones who spent more time with him didn't.  That wasn't lost on me.  I believe Dom was flashier so it was much more noticeable to the people not in the game with him as much.  However, the people around him more didn't care about that.

 

Secondly, I also noticed the ages of the people who voted for Dom compared to Wendell.  Dom's  votes skewed younger while Wendell's skewed older.  I remember when Survivor first premiered, I was 24 years old.  I used to get really worked up when the one I thought played the best game didn't win.  Now, I have a greater appreciation for the social aspect of the game due to age and experience.  I remember in my late 20's, I was in consideration for a promotion, and I was the best in terms of assistant producers.  I was on time with all of my projects, and my work always had the least editorial changes.  I didn't get the promotion and was confused.  I later talked to my supervisor, and she stated that I was like a robot, producing, but not making the relationship that would inspire people to work for me.  It was eye opening.  I had always gotten along with everyone, had great work problem solving conversations, but I was also headstrong and didn't budge when I knew I was right.  That was when I realized that relationships, not just working (game) relationships, were also important to succeed in my professional life.

 

This anology reminds me of survivor.  If one goes back to season one, Mark Burnett always billed this show as a social experiment, even though we see less and less each season.  What people value outside of the game will be what they value in the context of the game.  While I am not blaming Dom's voters in any way, I just feel that if they had more life experiences, they would have appreciated Wendell's game a bit more.  That is why I believe they were more bitter towards Wendell, than Wendell's voters being more bitter toward's Dom.

In my opinion, Wendell played a more well rounded game.  Yes Dom appeared to be more strategic (Outwit), but Wendell Outplayed and obviously Outlasted better than Dom.  I compare this to a teacher having to nominate a student for a scholarship based on no particular merits or qualifications.  She has Dom, who excels academically (4.0 GPA), then she has Wendell (3.4 GPA), but is involved in The student welcoming committee, art club, newspaper, and is a student athlete.  She decides to give the scholarship to Wendell, but everyone is complaining because Dom had the better GPA.  In this scenario, they were both deserving.  It just boils down to who places values on what aspect of the game they plan to reward.

[PreBabylonia]

1 hour ago, Earlfor1 said:

I noticed that the people who spent the least amount of time in the game voted for him to win. The ones who spent more time with him didn't.  That wasn't lost on me.  I believe Dom was flashier so it was much more noticeable to the people not in the game with him as much.  However, the people around him more didn't care about that.

 

Secondly, I also noticed the ages of the people who voted for Dom compared to Wendell.  Dom's  votes skewed younger while Wendell's skewed older.  

 

What people value outside of the game will be what they value in the context of the game.  While I am not blaming Dom's voters in any way, I just feel that if they had more life experiences, they would have appreciated Wendell's game a bit more.  That is why I believe they were more bitter towards Wendell, than Wendell's voters being more bitter toward's Dom.

In my opinion, Wendell played a more well rounded game.  Yes Dom appeared to be more strategic (Outwit), but Wendell Outplayed and obviously Outlasted better than Dom.  I compare this to a teacher having to nominate a student for a scholarship based on no particular merits or qualifications.  She has Dom, who excels academically (4.0 GPA), then she has Wendell (3.4 GPA), but is involved in The student welcoming committee, art club, newspaper, and is a student athlete.  She decides to give the scholarship to Wendell, but everyone is complaining because Dom had the better GPA.  In this scenario, they were both deserving.  It just boils down to who places values on what aspect of the game they plan to reward.

I agree. Between the two of them, I would have voted for Wendell, because he really did come across as a more compassionate and all around successful teammate. Initially I didn't like Dominic, I thought he was going to be another version of Tony, but he had a lot more depth to him. Still, choosing to engage in arguments with Chris (and I do blame Chris for starting them but Dom would have come across as much more mature had he handled it differently) and the way he chose to deal with Donathan's theatrics/paranoia, lost him Sebastian's vote at the very least. I'd have voted for Dom against anyone else but Wendell for me comes across as one of the smartest and most capable players I've seen in a long time. And incidentally stood out as excellent eye candy in a season that gave me a few choices! (Michael and James). Just in case you haven't seen Sebastian's view of Dominic's play:

https://www.realitytvworld.com/news/exclusive-sebastian-noel-talks-survivor-jenna-bowman-relationship-update-and-why-he-was-livid-at-domenick-abbate-24032.php

A good reminder that we don't see the full picture thru the editing. Dom didn't look half as bad as he sounds in Sebastian's account.