S07.E22: Leaving Storybrooke

[Shanna Marie]

I actually lost sleep trying to figure out how all this was supposed to work.The Enchanted Forest world (and presumably the Wishverse) was an entire planet. Hook was able to sail to various kingdoms. How do you fit an entire planet into a small town in Maine? Or did they just create a permanent portal that makes it seem like that part of the other world is in Storybrooke, so that you can walk from Storybrooke to that part of the other world, but from there you'd have to sail to places like Arendelle or Agrabah? 

I still don't see why this was a good thing to do. It seems to be part of Regina's weird clinginess to want to make sure she's never in a different realm from Henry. But it also means villains have easy access to all the other worlds now. Is Neverland also part of Storybrooke now? So those feral Lost Boys can just run in and out of town, and Blackbeard's out there. Plus, since they're back in time, Gothel and Lady Tremaine are alive in the Disenchanted Forest. Gothel could figure out where she goes wrong in the future from seeing how it comes out. She could get to Storybrooke without doing weird magic to lure Robyn. They'd be better off cutting Storybrooke off from the rest of the multiverse than bringing the multiverse to them.

And then there's the time issue. They're in 2018 (it seems, since Whenry seems to be about the same age at the coronation as he was during the events). So that means adult Henry and his family can't go home because their earlier selves are there. There's a younger Ella there. The king is still in power, with Tiana being in her late teens/early 20s. Goodness knows where Alice is. Whook should still be old and fat but not drunk because this is a few years after he met Emma, which means Alice should be a teen already escaped from the tower. But if she's the same age as Robyn, she should be about 4, but then Whook shouldn't be old yet. How has Hope been born when Emma wasn't pregnant until Henry was an adult?

What about all the versions of characters who are now existing in the same place? Presumably it was Ronigina who was crowed queen of the universe, so is 2018 Regina still mayor of Storybrooke, while the Evil Queen is queen of the Enchanted Forest? And Wregina is still out there, now brought to the same place. Poor Hope is going to be confused. She has three older brothers who are all versions of the same person -- 2018 Henry, Whenry, and adult Henry who's back from the future. Then there's her father, the other version of her father from the future in another realm, and the one from the present in that other realm who, oddly enough, is older than the one from the future. 

Just a couple of episodes ago, we had a circular time loop, where future Henry told young Henry about the bean gift, and future Henry remembered getting that phone call. But now the status quo has been changed so much that it's hard to imagine it not affecting the future. Can Henry go traveling the way he did when he can just wander over? How will his relationships be affected by having already met his daughter and wife? Will Regina still go join him when she's not really separated from him, and will she still teach Drizella magic? Will Gothel bother with the curse when she and her coven can just wander into Storybrooke and then drive to Seattle, and will there be anyone to stop her without the curse bringing others there?  

[CCTC]

2 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

It seems to be part of Regina's weird clinginess to want to make sure she's never in a different realm from Henry

Plus now she has two Henry's, one who she can be a clingy over-protective Mother, and one who she can be a clingy, inappropriate chemistry Mother.

[Shanna Marie]

5 minutes ago, CCTC said:

Plus now she has two Henry's, one who she can be a clingy over-protective Mother, and one who she can be a clingy, inappropriate chemistry Mother.

Possibly three, depending on where 2018 teen Henry is. Did he poof out of existence when his adult self showed up? But if he did, how will he go to another realm to set these events in motion?

She can keep Whenry by her side, have inappropriate chemistry with adult Henry, and still send teen Henry off traveling.

[PixiePaws1]

When Hook hugged Regina i was so hoping the coronation was all a big set up for him to stab the unrepentant sociopath in the neck...their hug was almost as awkward and uncomfortable as Emma hugging the bitch that was hellbent on murdering her when she was minutes old.

Didn't watch the ep...and STILL  want to projectile vomit at Regina..

[rogvortex58]

Okay. That ending was definitely overkill.

I want to be mad. But, as far as all the scenarios I’ve imagined where the villains get their happy endings go. This isn’t really that bad. I guess you could technically say that Roni’s didn’t have to come at the cost of anyone else’s. Nobody lost their happiness. Many characters still lost their sanity, dignity and self respect (eg. Snow Charming). But as long as everyone else is happy, I’m willing to let this slide.

I’ll just remember S7, or at least the parts I liked, as an extended epilogue to the true ending of the show. The S6 finale. Which called back to the first season, with a troubled kid believing his mother could be a hero, and save her family. Which she did by doing the right thing, and proving herself the true savior.

Regina may have united all the realms. But without Emma none of them would even exist.

Edited May 19, 2018 by rogvortex58

[Daisy]

11 hours ago, Cindy McLennan said:

I didn't want it to end there, either, but watching it, it really felt like a series finale, the way the Supernatural season five finale (for anyone here who watched) felt like a Supernatural finale, and the Buffy season five finale ("The Gift") felt like a Buffy finale. 

 

Me either and I agree. adding to that.
Gilmore Girls Season 3
Xena Season 5, and Hercules Season 5. 
Those are the endings. 

I think maybe that's why i tend to like British television so much. for the most part. they kind of end - when the story is supposed to end. You lament it's only 20 episodes (if you are lucky) but. that's it, thems the breaks and then you get for the most part  a very well done story. 

I didn't watch this season (I honestly, actually forgot), so I was seeing some clips on youtube and I was like, so Regina got to be queen of everything? 
Oh, show.

[AAEBoiler]

Well, I stuck it through all 7 (?!?!?) seasons and this last one was an absolute mess but dammit they made me cry (I will not admit how much) in the last scene with the "Leaving Storybrooke" sign. Even as a 50 year old guy, I guess I'm still a sucker for a happy ending not matter how convoluted it is.

[Curio]

10 hours ago, MaiLuna said:

Does anyone know Regina killed Graham? 

NO. THEY HAD 150 EPISODES TO ADDRESS THIS SINCE GRAHAM'S DEATH. 150 X 40 MINUTES PER EPISODE = 6,000 MINUTES = 100 HOURS. THEY LITERALLY, NO JOKE, HAD 100 HOURS OF TELEVISION TO ADDRESS THIS, AND SOMEHOW THEY COULDN'T BE BOTHERED TO EVER ADDRESS IT.

Ahem, sorry for the capslock. But this is one issue that will forever bother me. Emma congratulated Regina on becoming the Good Queen, probably even voted for her to become the new dictato...er, I mean, totally oxymoronical democratically elected Queen...but never found out Regina killed her friend years ago. Talk about twisted. I guess it's fitting if we're supposed to view Regina's happy ending like a Grimm Tale. Actually, the entire series makes a lot more sense if you analyze it through the lens that we're supposed to view this as a dark and messed up fairy tale where the heroes bow down to the villain who burns villages for fun.

10 hours ago, Camera One said:

Everyone had to gift a piece of their heart... how was she going to get everyone's consent to do that?

Somewhere out there is a scene where Regina goes into her vault of hearts (that, ya know, every Good Queen conveniently has) to rip off small chunks of each heart for the spell. Because she loved those hearts and those hearts loved her.

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I actually lost sleep trying to figure out how all this was supposed to work.

 

Don't bother putting in too much effort trying to work it out because A&E most likely stuck their middle fingers to their laptops while they were writing the final script and said, "Watch them try to figure out that timeline!" 

Edited May 19, 2018 by Curio

[RandomWatcher]

That finale raised more questions than answers:

How does Gold/Weaver/Crocodile/Rumple killing himself kill his Wish version?

Are there now three versions of Henry running around?

Are Hook and Wish Hook going to go on pirating adventures together?

I'm guessing that was Tinkerbell flying around at the end.  Was the actress too busy with iZombie to make an appearance?

Couldn't they have brought back Merida, Elsa and Anna, Aladdin and Jasmine and others for that coronation scene? 

[tennisgurl]

12 hours ago, RandomWatcher said:

Couldn't they have brought back Merida, Elsa and Anna, Aladdin and Jasmine and others for that coronation scene? 

They couldn't be there because they're forming their own resistance against multiverse conquering super-villain Regina. Which, in Once, means they're just going to go camping for awhile until they  declare themselves the new rulers after finally getting around to having a short fight scene.  

Edited May 20, 2018 by tennisgurl

[Curio]

"I can't wait to see what's in store for me next!" An awkward silence. "...or for everyone."

Congratulations, geniuses. You forgot you elected a narcissist.

[KingOfHearts]

7 minutes ago, Curio said:

"I can't wait to see what's in store for me next!" An awkward silence. "...or for everyone."

Congratulations, geniuses. You forgot you elected a narcissist.

That made me giggle. Regina is self-absorbed to the end.

[Camera One]

THR Interview

Quote

"The goal was to send the fans home happy," co-creator Edward Kitsis tells The Hollywood Reporter of the series-ender. "It was one last adventure, so we wanted to do something that would please Oncers everywhere."

Deluded to the end.

Quote

What about Star Wars?

Kitsis: We never felt like that had a place. I think that putting Chewbacca with Henry going to the library to ask Belle about a spell just felt wrong. I think it was universe-specific. I think it was universe-specific. 

How would that be different from anything else they did?  So basically, they loved Star Wars too much to ruin it.  But everything else was fair game.

Quote

What was your personal favorite moment in the finale?

Kitsis: It's hard to say, but when Rumple or Gold looks at Captain Hook in the snow globe and he says the answer to why he hasn't killed him all these years is, "because you're my oldest friend." That one always got me.

Typical that a totally WTF line was his personal favorite.

EW Interview:

Quote

“She’s connected to both Hook and Rumple, they are both her father figures,” Reynolds says. “It’s like picking between your favorite dads with her.

It's not even a contest.

Another EW Interview:

Quote

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: This is the second series finale that you’ve been involved in that included purgatory after Lost!
EDWARD KITSIS: If we’re talking about the scene of what happens to Rumple, that’s not purgatory. That’s heaven. That is 100 percent he’s made it home to her, and they’re absolutely not in any purgatory. We saw what that would be, which was the Hades season, and this very much looks like they have moved on into a happier, happier place. And so I would definitely say, especially after the wedding, he has made it to heaven, he has redeemed his heart, and he has made it to Belle, and he has made it home.

OF COURSE Rumple went to Heaven.  He deserved it, just like Cora.

Quote

Why did Rumple in particular need to die? 
KITSIS: I feel for Rumple, why he did have to die, [was] for a few reasons. His whole thing has been that he’s been frightened, he was the coward. He took this power to get rid of that fear, but what Belle taught him was that life was about moments — that’s what that whole “Up” episode was. So for us, it felt like watching him selflessly and truly give his heart to somebody who was, at one time, his enemy and going to Belle truly redeemed the character and showed that he became the hero. 

Belle taught him that in Episode 4.  He could have saved Whook's heart or even Henry's heart much earlier and sacrificed himself.

Quote

Was Regina being crowned the Good Queen what you always envisioned for Regina’s happy ending? 
KITSIS: Yeah, we felt like her happy ending did not want to be somebody else or a wedding, her happy ending, as we saw last year, she finally grew to love herself. We wanted her happy to be what she always wanted, which was to go from the Evil Queen to the Good Queen.
ADAM HOROWITZ: I think we wanted her happy to ending to also be the promise of continued happiness, this idea of all these stories continue, and that for Regina, who has been through so many tortured things in her life, that there was promise of happiness ahead and that she could finally get to that place that she never thought was possible for herself.

How many "happy endings" can one character have?  Becoming "The Good Queen" was not earned (like most of her rewards), so they shouldn't have bothered to rush that conclusion.  Countless others went through "tortured things" because of her.

Quote

Was it important to you guys to give a sense of closure to Robin and Regina in the finale?
HOROWITZ: It was very important to us that when we saw Robin at the close of the series, it was Robin and not a Wish Realm Version or whatever. We felt like the audience, and us as fans of the show itself, we needed to see them have this one moment between them.

"Or whatever".  We needed one more moment with him.  Yet they couldn't have done this in Season 6 when the show might have ended?

Quote

Is there a part of you that wishes you could’ve explored more of Robin and Alice’s story? 
KITSIS: I think those two are fantastic. So I do wish we could explore more. If you see the way we did it this year, it was very much in the Snow-Charming [romance], the very slow burn of really watching the love story come together. 

I like Robin and Alice but stop with the comparisons.

Quote

Is there anything that ended up on the cutting room floor? 
HOROWITZ: No, I think we able to really include everything we had hoped. I don’t think there was anything significant. Was there, Eddy?
KITSIS: I think there may have been a scene here or there, but nothing huge that took away from what we wanted to do.

Ha, and then the interviewer called them out on a missing scene.

Surely, they could have included that one over... well, I can think of several scenes that could have been shortened or eliminated.

Quote

You had a plan for a potential season 8. Is there anything you can say as to what that would’ve been?
KITSIS: No, that would have been figured out this week. I think we would have probably returned to Storybrooke and done something there… Usually we have a few notions and then in between seasons we plot it out.
HOROWITZ: And it’s also the kind of thing that organically grows out of the season. We knew in December or January that we were ending the show, so that is usually the place where we start to lay the groundwork for the following season. So no, there isn’t a concrete plan for what season 8 would have been.

In other words, we make it up as we go along.  

Season 8 in Storybrooke?  Seriously?  How was that going to work?  

I wonder what would "grow organically" out of a disaster like Gothel and Facilier?

Quote

Were there any alternate plans at least for this episode, or was it always going to end with the coronation?
KITSIS: Always the coronation. We learned early enough in the season we were ending, so it was all driven towards that. We knew it was going to end and then we just wrote towards it.

This makes the planning and plotting for 7B all the more egregious, if they were supposedly building towards this.

Quote

What was your point of pride for the for the series finale and is there anything you would’ve changed? 
KITSIS: Point of pride for us is the fact that we got to season 7 and episode 155. I wouldn’t change a thing. Everyone we [asked] to come back said yes, and so I love that two hours. I really loved this finale. I don’t think I would change a thing. Adam?
HOROWITZ: I wouldn’t either. I mean, it is kind of how I feel about the series — that all the ups and downs of it, there’s nothing I would change about it because it got us to where we are. When the series finale ended, I felt very proud of what we’ve done and very emotional. I really couldn’t have asked for more.

Yep, and you are your toughest critics blah blah blah and people who are tough on themselves NEVER think about how they could have made something better.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Camera One

[daxx]

5 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

 

I actually lost sleep trying to figure out how all this was supposed to work.The Enchanted Forest world (and presumably the Wishverse) was an entire planet.

 

I believe Storybrooke is a pocket dimension and can be as large as it needs to be without taking up any space in the real world.

[coops]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I just couldn't watch it. No matter how much I wanted to see Emma, Hook and their baby, Charming and Snow, Granny and the Dwarves I just couldn't sit through all about Regina and her getting crowned Queen of Everything or what happened to Rumple. I wasn't sure my TV could survive that. Both are still so completely undeserving of their happy endings.  So much potential for this show and the characters for all of them and they never really reached it. 

I didn't watch either but sat through a youtube clip of Regina being crowned and adored by everyone. All I could think was 'how many people in this coronation loved someone who was murdered by Regina and yet here they are swooning at her adoringly!' None of it made any emotional sense, I had to laugh. It reminds me of the games me and my friend used to play with when we were children. The games used to get more and more ridiculous as they evolved. Once we were playing with Barbies and a jealous Barbie pulled out a gun at her birthday party and tried to shoot a girl who was dancing with her boyfriend. The girl and boyfriend managed to escape down a convenient sewer tunnel. Total nonsense but, hey, we were kids. That's exactly what I feel the writers of this show have done, just gone on whims and 'what ifs' and projected their own wish fulfillment onto the character of Regina resulting in story which makes no sense at all. If Regina being elected queen of everything is the writers referencing the bizarre real-life scenario of how Trump was elected president, they are geniuses. But I don't think they are. I think they are just the worst Mary Sue culprits I've ever seen.  

[daxx]

2 minutes ago, coops said:

I think they are just the worst Mary Sue culprits I've ever seen.  

They run a very close second to Gough and Millar, Lana in Smallville has to take the number one slot for Mary Sue I’m afraid, Regina gets second place.

[KingOfHearts]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

OF COURSE Rumple went to Heaven.  He deserved it, just like Cora.

It's even worse than Cora, since Cora had to go through purgatory first. 

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

How many "happy endings" can one character have?  Becoming "The Good Queen" was not earned (like most of her rewards), so they shouldn't have bothered to rush that conclusion.  Countless others went through "tortured things" because of her.

As a former Evil Regal, I never thought becoming the "Good Queen" was Regina's happy ending. She always chased where the grass was greener, but she needed to learn to appreciate what she had in front of her. She never wanted to be Queen. That was thrown on her by Cora and Rumple, then she took advantage of it because, well... they never actually say why she married Leopold. (And it was a complete 180 from before.) She never had any leadership qualities. The kingdom hated her. She only stayed in power because she had magic and Rumple (and apparently Zelena) covered up her mistakes. Other tyrants knew how to play the diplomacy game and used their wits. Regina just did whatever because she could.

Regina's happy ending was redeeming herself and slowly earning her way back into the lives of Henry, Emma, and Snow. After several seasons of righting wrongs and showing remorse, her being accepted into the family would've been her endpoint. I would've liked to see Regina humbling herself and crowning Snow, giving her step-daughter back her rightful crown. But that's not what happened. She got to get chummy with the Charmings in S3 before she showed any sign of remorse, and she never really put them above herself. Repairing the broken bonds with her family would've been a great endgame. Too bad A&E made it a midgame.

Also, she should've ended up with Robin. I don't care about the writers' preaching that she "doesn't need a man". Relationships are not just about receiving love, they're about sending it too. Regina has always longed to be in a relationship, and that's not inherently a bad thing. It would've been long and rocky road, especially with Robin if the writers understood the gravity of killing his wife, but this is a drama. It would've been interesting.

Edited May 19, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Delphi]

Lovely to see Emma and the Charming.   Even neat to see the combined realms...

But Snow, Charming and Emma have to give up their titles for Queen Destroys the Realms,  go fuck yourself Adam and Eddie.   I really hope no one trusts these hacks with a show ever again. 

[stealinghome]

Quote

Regina's happy ending was redeeming herself and slowly earning her way back into the lives of Henry, Emma, and Snow. After several seasons of righting wrongs and showing remorse, her being accepted into the family would've been her endpoint. I would've liked to see Regina humbling herself and crowning Snow, giving her step-daughter back her rightful crown. But that's not what happened. She got to get chummy with the Charmings in S3 before she showed any sign of remorse, and she never really put them above herself. Repairing the broken bonds with her family would've been a great endgame. Too bad A&E made it a midgame.

I clearly had a moment of insanity last night (or enhanced insanity, given that I chose to watch the finale, lol), and for a moment thought that the writers were really going to do that--have Regina turn down the crown because she understands she's not suited for leadership and doesn't deserve it. For a half-second, when Regina kind of turned away from Snowing, I really, really thought that was going to happen. And then my sanity reasserted itself and I laughed for ever thinking that the writers would place Snow above Regina--with Regina's consent, no less! And it's too bad, because that actually would have been a much, much better ending for Regina than what we got. It would have been poetic--a fitting mirror to the pilot. So of course, we couldn't have it!

[KingOfHearts]

12 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

I clearly had a moment of insanity last night (or enhanced insanity, given that I chose to watch the finale, lol), and for a moment thought that the writers were really going to do that--have Regina turn down the crown because she understands she's not suited for leadership and doesn't deserve it. For a half-second, when Regina kind of turned away from Snowing, I really, really thought that was going to happen. And then my sanity reasserted itself and I laughed for ever thinking that the writers would place Snow above Regina--with Regina's consent, no less! And it's too bad, because that actually would have been a much, much better ending for Regina than what we got. It would have been poetic--a fitting mirror to the pilot. So of course, we couldn't have it!

It felt like such a dream sequence to me. Nothing seemed right about it. 

[Arnella]

12 hours ago, Camera One said:

Their choice of what to spend time on was... well, telling.  It was strange that we didn't get to see any reaction to Emma seeing Wish Henry because he was standing right there, but not a surprise given these Writers.  If anyone had been able to reach the humanity in Wish Henry, it would have been Emma, or even Snowing.  

I did discover this alternate ending.  

CORONATION HALL

SNOW: "And I crown you, Regina, Queen of all the realms."

The crowd claps.

SNOW: I will take this opportunity to announce to you all that we have discovered a new Realm in a galaxy far far away, and my family and I will be moving there immediately.  If any of you would like to join us, feel free to leave with us now and enter the Millennium Falcon parked outside."

Every single person in the crowd heads for the exits.

SNOW: You packed everything, right?

EMMA: Yep.

SNOW: Thank goodness.

You always should have been writing for this show Camera One.

[Arnella]

I have been fast forwarding through this season but was determined to get through this whole episode for old time's sake.  All of the WTF moments for me have been covered here so I won't run through them again except for 2:

Rumple just dying and never seeing Belle was EXACTLY what he deserves (and I have always loved RC as Rumple).  Any trials and tribulations he has gone through cannot make up for all COLD BLOODED MURDERS. (RC is still great - so glad he is free of this!)

EVERY aspect of the coronation scene made me literally sick to my stomach.  

I shall avoid any A&E shows in the future no matter how good the first season looks.  

Thank you all here for all the lovely snark over the years!

[Jinxie]

In all the reviews of this episode that I've read, they keep referring to Rumple's ending as "bittersweet."  How is it bittersweet?  He wanted to be mortal, so he could die, and he died. He lived an entire life with Belle, and then joined her in death.  How is this bittersweet?  I would call this, "exactly what he wanted."

I can't believe (though, actually, I can, based on past disappointments) that they didn't show Wish Henry interacting with Emma and Charming/Snow.  Wouldn't he be overjoyed to see his Mom?  She is his actual Mom.  The only Mom he ever knew.  Emma and WishEmma are the same person.  And a living version of his grandparents?

But no, he walks down the aisle to be crowned a woman whom he has had very little interaction with, and ignores his actual mother.  

I don't think the creators of this show understand anything about people.

[Rumsy4]

31 minutes ago, Jinxie said:

I don't think the creators of this show understand anything about people.

They only see their characters as playthings. Except for Regina.

[Jinxie]

Here's something that's bugging me.  Maybe it's already been addressed, but I don't see it.  If everything merged, do they have multiple versions of people?  Even multiple versions of the same person?  For example, Robin (Alice's Robin) is in storybrooke.  Is little Robin also still there?  They are the same person, just different ages.

Or...if the cursed people jumped forward so they were all in the same time, shouldn't Hope and Neal be considerably older?  Hope is a baby, but Emma told Henry she was pregnant before Jacinda had Lucy, so if they were all in the same time period Hope should be much closer to Lucy's age.

[PixiePaws1]

5 hours ago, RandomWatcher said:

 

Couldn't they have brought back Merida, Elsa and Anna, Aladdin and Jasmine and others for that coronation scene? 

They're busy filling out the psych hospital commitment papers and filing for power of attorneys for all the clearly insane people that voted the mass murdering rapist to rule/ruin their lives EVEN MORE than she already has!

[tessaray]

I'm glad most people were (sort of) satisfied with this finale. TBH, I turned on the television to watch AoS live and caught Regina about to be crowned and I'm pretty sure I had a rage blackout right then.  Seeing Emma, Hook and baby Hope helped a little though and they're the only reason I didn't just delete the last 8 dvr'd episodes.  (I may still go back and watch them at some point.  Or not...)  

[Shanna Marie]

28 minutes ago, Jinxie said:

Here's something that's bugging me.  Maybe it's already been addressed, but I don't see it.  If everything merged, do they have multiple versions of people?  Even multiple versions of the same person?  For example, Robin (Alice's Robin) is in storybrooke.  Is little Robin also still there?  They are the same person, just different ages.

Or...if the cursed people jumped forward so they were all in the same time, shouldn't Hope and Neal be considerably older?  Hope is a baby, but Emma told Henry she was pregnant before Jacinda had Lucy, so if they were all in the same time period Hope should be much closer to Lucy's age.

None of it makes much sense. Little Robin was in Storybrooke, since she was with Zelena when big Robin went to Zelena for help. We didn't see Storybrooke young Henry or Storybrooke 2018 Regina, who were apparently off on a trip with Emma when Alice and Robin got to town. Between present versions, future versions traveled back in time, and Wish versions, there are likely 2 or more versions of some of the characters, and they're all in more or less the same place, thanks to merging the realms.

Based on the fact that Wish Henry hadn't grown up to be the same age he was when Emma was pregnant and based on Neal's age, Hope's age doesn't fit. Neal should be at least 10 years old when she's born. Then we're back to the "time moved faster where Henry was" theory so that Emma was pregnant within months of Henry's departure, but that doesn't fit with Robin's age.

I think they gave up on the timeline, and showing Hook and Emma with a baby was pure fanservice that had nothing to do with fitting into the story and everything to do with not having a mob of fans with pitchforks and torches outside their homes if we never got to see the baby.

[KingOfHearts]

Did they not even bother to take out WHook's heart before putting in Rumple's?

[Curio]

13 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I think they gave up on the timeline, and showing Hook and Emma with a baby was pure fanservice that had nothing to do with fitting into the story and everything to do with not having a mob of fans with pitchforks and torches outside their homes if we never got to see the baby.

 

If they didn't want a mob of fans with pitchforks outside their homes, maybe they could have...oh, I dont know...given Captain Swan an actual TLK? Or allowed them to have more than one solo adventure together once every 40 episodes? Or, at the very least, included them in the love montage at the end of this episode? As it stands, these were the couples A&E really wanted to make sure the audience remembered during Regina's speech:

1. Robin/Regina kiss
2. Snow/Charming TLK
3. Emma/Henry TLK
4. Another Snow/Charming TLK
5. Princess Aurora/Prince Phillip TLK
6. Rumple/Belle dance
7. Violet/Henry kiss
8. OG Cinderella/Prince Thomas kiss
9. Jasmine/Aladdin kiss
10. Snow/Charming proposal 

Not even one Captain Swan shoutout. Violet made the list but not Hook? What?! And what about the new characters from this season? No Henry/Jacinda? Robyn/Alice? But hey, at least they remembered Graham. Speaking of which, during the death montage, I'm pretty sure I counted 3 deaths which were directly caused by Regina.

Quote

Did they not even bother to take out WHook's heart before putting in Rumple's?

Like the theme of the episode, they are "both" now.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Curio

[KingOfHearts]

Now I wonder how many people Glinda killed before she became known as the "The Good Witch".

Edited May 19, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

None of it makes much sense. Little Robin was in Storybrooke, since she was with Zelena when big Robin went to Zelena for help. We didn't see Storybrooke young Henry or Storybrooke 2018 Regina, who were apparently off on a trip with Emma when Alice and Robin got to town. Between present versions, future versions traveled back in time, and Wish versions, there are likely 2 or more versions of some of the characters, and they're all in more or less the same place, thanks to merging the realms.

As you said, it doesn't make any sense, and all of it was so unnecessary.  There was no reason for Alice and Robyn to go to Storybrooke 2017.  They could have called Zelena and all three of them could use the bean to travel to Storybrooke 2032 (or whatever year it was that Drizella cast the Curse).  Granny and the Dwarves would recognize Robyn (so yes, A&E, you have to let go of the dumb scene where Granny & the Dwarves try to kill Alice/Robyn immediately).  In 2032, Robyn could ask for Emma and Hook, and Granny tells them they're out of town, so we don't know what the solution is.

Meanwhile, Whook, Rumple and Henry (plus Jacinda and Lucy but they could just stand in the background) should have been able to successfully get out of the snow globe themselves.  They make a plan to split up, with Hook drawing out the knights at the front gates, Rumple finding magic, and Henry and Jacinda going down to the dungeons.  They could have had Robyn and Alice surprise Whook while he's getting ready to face the knights alone and they help him (so the reunion takes place outside).  They could still have had Snowing (along with Grumpy and Granny) pose as Black Knights in the prison (which would explain why this was a surprise to Adult Henry).  However, this doesn't solve the problem of where the hell Wish Rumple and Wish Henry were during this time.   Maybe Regina was already gone from the dungeons and Wish Henry and Wish Rumple were marching Regina off to be executed or something.

They also didn't need to merge all the realms.  If the Wish Realm people were so unhappy (which was implied by that deleted scene with Wish Granny/Grumpy/Blue) and maybe ravaged by Wish Rumple's cruel actions throughout the land, Regina could then offer to merge the Wish Realm with Storybrooke.  At least there would be an actual reason for doing that.  Maybe an unexpected result is it ends up bringing all the buildings and the physical environment as well, so everyone is surprised but that could be fodder for a few jokes about vacationing at Knifington or in Emerald City.  Regina's new Curse would then bring Wish Realm 2017 to Storybrooke 2032, so it doesn't affect the past events, and Henry would always have gone off to meet Jacinda, except they'd have to say Whook was already in the Disenchanted Forest by 2017 and wasn't in the Wish Realm at the time.

In no way does this fix all the other timeline mess-ups from earlier this season (like how Adult Alice was able to meet Jacinda's mother in Wonderland), but at least it doesn't create all the new problems created within the final 2 hours that they could have easily avoided.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, Curio said:

Not even one Captain Swan shoutout. Violet made the list but not Hook? What?! 

So I didn't miss it. I didn't see a Hook/Emma scene and thought surely they wouldn't skip them. Then I thought maybe it was for relationships or characters who aren't there anymore, but they got in the Charmings. It's a bit weird that we saw Henry and Violet but not Henry and his actual wife.

That coda from Regina deciding to merge the worlds for no sane reason to her being crowned queen of the universe was so ridiculous that I can't even be mad about it. The "all in Regina's head" thing works for me. 

[Inquirer]

6 hours ago, daxx said:

They run a very close second to Gough and Millar, Lana in Smallville has to take the number one slot for Mary Sue I’m afraid, Regina gets second place.

No. Lana is nowhere CLOSE to Regina. Lana isn't a tyrannical, mass-murdering rapist. Regina is, which makes her Mary Sue status all the worse.

Quote

Kitsis: It's hard to say, but when Rumple or Gold looks at Captain Hook in the snow globe and he says the answer to why he hasn't killed him all these years is, "because you're my oldest friend." That one always got me.

Did Eddy seriously forget that this was WISH Hook and not the original Hook? And that the line was "because you're the closest thing I ever had to a friend", once again talking specifically about WISH Hook (the "You're my oldest friend" line was a psychotic, jeering, sarcastic one that he gave to his Hook right before ripping his heart out in 4x08.)

Quote

EDWARD KITSIS: If we’re talking about the scene of what happens to Rumple, that’s not purgatory. That’s heaven. That is 100 percent he’s made it home to her, and they’re absolutely not in any purgatory. We saw what that would be, which was the Hades season, and this very much looks like they have moved on into a happier, happier place. And so I would definitely say, especially after the wedding, he has made it to heaven, he has redeemed his heart, and he has made it to Belle, and he has made it home.

LOL, he sounds so frantic here. Once again, their intent did not translate properly to what we saw on-screen, which was purgatory.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Inquirer

[Rumsy4]

23 minutes ago, Inquirer said:

LOL, he sounds so frantic here. Once again, their intent did not translate properly to what we saw on-screen, which was purgatory.

That was laughable. If they wanted to telegraph that as "heaven" instead of purgatory, maybe they should not have made "heaven" look like a small dark corner of the universe where the only things in existence were Belle, Rumple, and the well. 

[Souris]

At least they didn't give Regina a love interest on top of her being made Queen of the Universe. That would have been too much. I mean, it was obviously already too much to have her be UltaQueen, but a love interest too would've been TOO TOO MUCH. I'm assuming they didn't give her a new true love/soulmate as a nod to the OQers and SQers, but for whatever reason they didn't, that was a good thing. She doesn't deserve to have romantic love on top of everything else.

I have a few questions, because I have a fic brewing. I realize since I didn't watch, that's rather cheeky of me, but I simply couldn't stomach the Regina worship. I realize it's probable possible they didn't actually answer all some of these.

1) Did Regina actually bring all the realms to SB, or just the people in them? And was it everybody, or just "the people I love and the people who love me"?

2) What exactly went into the spell/curse to do it? I saw something about pieces of people's hearts -- was that literal or metaphoric (like "part of their love for me")? Who all did these pieces come from?

3) Did they address what happened to the rulers of all these other worlds, like Elsa, Merida, Tiana, Rapunzel, etc.? Did they just happily give up their thrones to Regina?

[Camera One]

They didn't explain or address any of that.  We saw from the flyaround birds eye view near the end that right beside Storybrooke, you see the palaces of the Enchanted Forest, close by, there's Agrabah, and in the distance, you see the Emerald City of Oz, etc.  

This is what Regina said to "explain" this new Curse:

Quote

The Dark Curse is the blueprint for something wonderful. What if instead of crushing the heart of the thing I love most everyone I love and who loves me gifted a small piece of their own? And then maybe just maybe instead of separating everyone this magic brings them together. What if I could bring all the realms to Storybrooke? There would be no more separation. For once, we can all be together. All the realms of story, secretly tucked away in a forgotten corner in Maine.

Everyone who loved Regina? Wouldn't that be 3 people tops?

Edited May 20, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

34 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

That was laughable. If they wanted to telegraph that as "heaven" instead of purgatory, maybe they should not have made "heaven" look like a small dark corner of the universe where the only things in existence were Belle, Rumple, and the well. 

Heaven in this universe is just a painfully obvious soundstage. Maybe Cora wasn't so fortunate after all. I thought maybe for Rumple's death, we'd see Ghost!Belle beckoning him to the light or something. Not fully formed with a random wishing well and dry ice.

Edited May 20, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

50 minutes ago, Camera One said:

They didn't explain or address any of that.  We saw from the flyaround birds eye view near the end that right beside Storybrooke, you see the palaces of the Enchanted Forest, close by, there's Agrabah, and in the distance, you see the Emerald City of Oz, etc.  

This is what Regina said to "explain" this new Curse:

Everyone who loved Regina? Wouldn't that be 3 people tops?

 

Thank you!! Lord, what a mess. Typical A&E ridiculousness that doesn't stand up to thought. No wonder I wasn't seeing good explanations, just questions.

At least it leaves it open to all sorts of fanfic interpretation (and ways to reverse it).

If they wanted to telegraph that as "heaven" instead of purgatory, maybe they should not have made "heaven" look like a small dark corner of the universe where the only things in existence were Belle, Rumple, and the well.

But hasn't that always been how Rumple wanted it, having Belle all to himself? So I guess it's his heaven.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Souris

[TheRabbi]

I'll go back and read the comments after this, but a few thoughts after just watching it:

It felt like A&E apologizing to the audience for this disaster of a season. Loved that Jacinda and Lucy were thrown to the side with maybe one line the whole episode. And when Henry gets into the cabin in the snowglobe, he says Let's go find some blankets, because of course Jacinda isnt even that competent. And of course no Gothel, Drizella, Tiana, or any of the new characters from this season really besides Alice and Robin. I'll take it as an apology.

It was nice seeing many old characters again, but Emma's surprise appearance didn't really do much for me. Just reminded me of the show that used to be better.

My head hurts from thinking about the timelines of the two Henry's being together. 

The stand-in playing Carlyle's double when doing the scenes between the 2 Rumples is distractingly nothing like Carlyle.

Zelena will always be the best. Regina will always be the worst.

Part of me wouldn't mind going back and rewatching some of the early stuff. But I doubt I will since this show went so far off the rails. I think the last story arc I enjoyed was the underworld arc. That was 5B I believe? 

[Camera One]

Considering Henry started off the season saying there were "endless" possibilities like the French and Italian Snow Whites.  Did Regina bring them ALL to Maine?  And they all voted for her to be the Queen of Everything, right?  

[KingOfHearts]

1 minute ago, Camera One said:

Considering Henry started off the season saying there were "endless" possibilities like the French and Italian Snow Whites.  Did Regina bring them ALL to Maine?  And they all voted for her to be the Queen of Everything, right?  

Did she bring everyone from all the alternate timelines too?

Don't judge me, but I'm disappointed we didn't get Clone Queen and Wish Robin. Ghost!Robin was meh.

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

Everyone who loved Regina? Wouldn't that be 3 people tops?

Young Henry. Adult Henry. Wish Henry. Let's not forget Mary Margaret. And maaaybe Zelena. So, five people?

Edited May 20, 2018 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

1 minute ago, Rumsy4 said:

Young Henry. Adult Henry. Wish Henry. Let's not forget Mary Margaret. And maaaybe Zelena. So, five people?

Did Regina brainwash Wish Henry off-screen or something?  One scene later, he and Adult Henry came in like they were already BFF's.  I guess it's not a stretch that they'd be in love with themselves, but still.

[InsertWordHere]

3 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Young Henry. Adult Henry. Wish Henry. Let's not forget Mary Margaret. And maaaybe Zelena. So, five people?

They made my Charming bow to her. Twice. I’m afraid he’s finally been converted, as much as it hurts me to say so. And I think Snow has influenced Snowflake into Regina love. Or he just really didn’t want to be a ruler. 

A truly gracious person would have pulled an Aragorn after the first bow. “My friends, you bow to no one.” But she’s no Aragorn. 

[Camera One]

10 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

They made my Charming bow to her. Twice. I’m afraid he’s finally been converted, as much as it hurts me to say so. And I think Snow has influenced Snowflake into Regina love. Or he just really didn’t want to be a ruler. 

A truly gracious person would have pulled an Aragorn after the first bow. “My friends, you bow to no one.” But she’s no Aragorn. 

I don't get what A&E were getting at.  Snow and Charming (x2) had to bow to Regina.  But they didn't make anyone else bow down to her.  

[PixiePaws1]

18 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Young Henry. Adult Henry. Wish Henry. Let's not forget Mary Margaret. And maaaybe Zelena. So, five people?

You forgot Regina..she  TRUE LOVES herself...!

[Camera One]

19 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

Oh, and something else I'll really miss is the amazing soundtrack. I really feel like half of the barely there emotion this finale squeezed out of me was from the music. 

Yes, I think that was the main thing that gave me some feelings.  Mark Isham is so awesome to put so many tracks for streaming on his Soundcloud, especially since there hasn't been a soundtrack released since Season 2.  I'm listening to "Wedding In the Woods" right now and I'm enjoying the music even though I hated that scene.  A&E lucked out in so many ways with this show it's not even funny.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

12 minutes ago, PixiePaws1 said:

You forgot Regina..she  TRUE LOVES herself...!

It's funny because Regina is a narcissist. Naturally, her romantic pairing turned out to be herself in the end.

[CCTC]

23 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

A truly gracious person would have pulled an Aragorn after the first bow. “My friends, you bow to no one.” But she’s no Aragorn. 

I was waiting for her to bow to them in return as a show of respect.  It was an odd little moment, and makes me wonder how longer before Regina gets corrupted by having all this power, "absolute power corrupts absolutely" and you cannot get more absolute than being queen of everything.   She seemed to be enjoying the adoration just a little too much.