S06.E21: Docket No. 11-19-41-73

[Mellowyellow]

The people living in Star City are bloody shady! Seriously they should just move! Weren't these the same idiots who were happy to live in Damien D's cornfield? Why do they even try with this stupid city!? I know, for plot! But still!!!!!!

***

What was the thing about Shady Susan? I must have missed it! 

[apinknightmare]

Just now, Mellowyellow said:

What was the thing about Shady Susan? I must have missed it! 

The prosecution presented one of the photos of Oliver in Russia that Shady Susie had her PI dig up when she was investigating Oliver. 

[calliope1975]

6 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

The people living in Star City are bloody shady! Seriously they should just move! Weren't these the same idiots who were happy to live in Damien D's cornfield? Why do they even try with this stupid city!? I know, for plot! But still!!!!!!

I bet the Ivy Town people would welcome a vigilante who excels at slow cooking with a hacker wife who bakes. 

[KenyaJ]

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

I was just thinking...how would Diaz have learned about Chance via the bug Black Siren put in the bunker? Did they talk about him extensively down there for some reason?

Nope. At least not that we saw. Siren bugged the bunker in 601, and I don't recall a single mention of Chance since then. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

I'm not a fan of the kid but I really like this family hug (and Felicity moving to cover his hand, too)

OK, so if I ignore the legal stupidity, the presence of NTA, the continued lameness of Diaz, this wasn't a bad episode at all, LOL! I loved the Olicity scenes, how they're both still trying to protect each other. I took Oliver's comment about life after GA as less about him not being able to have a life now but that if everybody knew he was GA, people will always go after him even after he gives up the hood for good. 

I wish they made Felicity more pro-active this episode, but I guess they wanted to save it for next episode. I just don't buy that she was too distraught not to think of various solutions for their dilemma. 

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

The prosecution presented one of the photos of Oliver in Russia that Shady Susie had her PI dig up when she was investigating Oliver. 

This means Shady Susie sold out Oliver then, right? I laughed at Felicity's scowl when she was mentioned.

[KenyaJ]

1 minute ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Getting acquitted of crimes you totally committed is a Queen Family tradition since 2013.

 

Quote

Oliver: "I don't want you in a position where you perjure yourself because of me."
Felicity: "Oh, well, let me just add it to the long list of felonies I've already committed for you."

Can't believe I forgot to mention this last night, but if that's not true love, what is?

[Mellowyellow]

I'm fond of William now! He's endearing! When they don't force him to say weird toddler lines he's fine. So what if his acting is not great. KC's acting is atrocious despite being an adult and a professional! 

Someone suggested a way to recast the actor who plays William and I found myself protesting (internally) at the prospect! He's totally grown on me! 

Did anyone catch Felicity telling him to go buy something "healthy" in the vending machine! She's finally come over to Oliver's side about the food! 

[insomniadreams88]

A couple questions:

HT introduced himself to Rene. Did they not meet last season? (I refuse to rewatch S5 to see.)

The prosecutor brought up Diggle's child being kidnapped, right? Uh, when did that happen? 

[Guest]

I completely forgot that Susan the Snake was mentioned in the episode. So basically we were right about her all along? I'm shocked! ?

[statsgirl]

I'm shocked that with all the selling MG was doing that she's a good person, Thea and Felicity right about Susan after all.

[insomniadreams88]

6 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I completely forgot that Susan the Snake was mentioned in the episode. So basically we were right about her all along? I'm shocked! ?

 

5 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I'm shocked that with all the selling MG was doing that she's a good person, Thea and Felicity right about Susan after all.

There should be a deleted scene where Felicity calls Thea to tell her. And since it's not something that would come up after this episode, a deleted scene where Oliver apologizes to Felicity and Thea for being such an idiot. 

[Primal Slayer]

I wouldn't be surprised if Susan was threatened to give up the info. 

[apinknightmare]

She wouldn't have had any info for someone to threaten her into giving up if Oliver hadn't been an absolute dumbass about her investigating him without his knowledge last season. 

[calliope1975]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

She wouldn't have had any info for someone to threaten her into giving up if Oliver hadn't been an absolute dumbass about her investigating him without his knowledge last season. 

Yep. And if she was truly a good person, she would have destroyed what evidence she had. Therefore, Suzy sucks and I feel vindicated yet also punished because I had to sit through that story line.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

I'm shocked that with all the selling MG was doing that she's a good person, Thea and Felicity right about Susan after all.

Of course they were. As were we. It was only Oliver who was dumb as a box of rocks last season where she was concerned.

I wasn't able to watch last night as I was at a fund raiser and didn't get home until midnight, but am I going to be pulling my hair out (which I can't afford to do for those who know why) at the "legal" shenanigans? Just from what I've read, I've hit my head on my desk.

And just to say it to get it out of the way, even if I hadn't read what everyone has said:

FUCK OFF and SHUT UP, Stutterbark (a.k.a. Curtis)!!!

FUCK OFF and SHUT UP, Pouty Lips!

FUCK OFF and SHUT UP, Wild DONG!

[KenyaJ]

35 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

but am I going to be pulling my hair out (which I can't afford to do for those who know why) at the "legal" shenanigans? 

Of course. Just try to ignore it and focus on Tommy and all the Olicity goodness.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just now, KenyaJ said:

Of course. Just try to ignore it and focus on Tommy and all the Olicity goodness.

Thanks! I really wish I hadn't recognized Tommy in the previews they had shown last week. I wanted to be able to SQUEE: TOMMMMYYYYYYYYYY!!!!

Oh well.

[tennisgurl]

I loved the Susan reference, because her holding into that picture makes my hatred of her retroactively justified. Even if was threatened, she still kept the picture, and that means she still sucks, and I knew it from the start.

[mrspidey]

Wow, General Hale isn't even gonna bother changing costumes between shows, is she? I could swear she looked the exact same two weeks ago on AoS,

[BunsenBurner]

I finally watched this episode on the CW app. It went by quickly and I was surprised. They packed a lot of “stuff” in this tolerable episode. I liked the doctor, Colin’s reveal and the judges reveal. The best parts were anything Olicity and son. Oliver’s different facial expressions though were the highlight of the show. 

BS finally shows us she wasn’t going to destroy the Arrow. Diaz is still a horrible villain and if not for CC I wouldn’t have known what he said. The dampener was a given. The NTA were their usual tiny tots self and nothing will get me to like them unless they leave the show permanently. 

All in all an acceptable show. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Like @tennisgurl said: “This doesn’t change anything. HOSS.? I can’t BELIEVE show had Oliver apologize AGAIN. Fuck that noise.

SHUT UP CURTIS! SHUT UP DINAH! SHUT UP DONG!!!!

Ay yi yi!  The utter NIMRODIC STOOOPIDITY with the trial. The unending overruling of Jean’s objections when Renee Russo’s Doppelgänger was asking Pouty questions as if she were on trial. ?? SHE wasn’t on trial, Oliver was. Same with Diggle. Guess with Flashpoint, it was JJ who was kidnapped instead of Lyla? And also? Strawman argument trying to discredit Felicity when bringing up her father. First, she was estranged from her dad, so she wouldn’t know he was a hacker/the Calculator. Unlike knowing and loving Oliver.????????

The good: ❤️❤️❤️TOMMMMMYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!❤️❤️

Shows you how much I zoned during Season Five, because I do NOT remember Chance. And I’m not interested in going back to watch.

As for marble mush mouth? ??????

And sorry Judge, but if you want the jury to sort it out (and just the fact that the judge ordered Tommy arrested for being Arrow should have dismissed the charges against Oliver, thus ending this farce), then you shouldn’t have ordered Tommy’s arrest. The trial should have ended with dismissal or mistrial!

[Guest]

I realized this episode highlighted how utterly pointless Curtis is tbh. There wasn't even a reason for him to be at the trial. As much as I can't stand Dinah, even she has a role with the Police link. But literally all Curtis did was complain about not being subpoenaed. ?

[GHScorpiosRule]

And the show is pretty arrogant and laissez faire about the corrupt and dirty cops who openly call marble mush mouth “boss” publicy. They’re not even trying to hide their corruption.??????

[theschnauzers]

Enjoyed the episode tremendously although as someone with legal training, the courtroom scene made me cringe. But using the JNOV was right on target (pardon the pun). I was glad to see Colin back for a meatier appearance this time. 

And I will say this now. The writers have planted enough Easter eggs that I can see how CD can get to return as Tommy. If the writers over season could write Colton Hayes back as a regular for next season, Tommy could have several appearances as Colin’s Chicago Med filming schedule permits.....after all he made it twice this season.

[Lunula]

I loved that Diggle really stepped up for Oliver this episode, without being asked. I am still pissed about the show breaking them up in the first place - to me, they were brothers, and to have Diggle break that bond because of something so petty still makes no sense to me.

Human Target - loved seeing him again! And Tommy...he looks so different now! But since the show ruined the surprise of him dropping from the ceiling (a courtroom with skylights?) in the promo from last week, it wasn’t as impactful as it should’ve been.

Why the hell did it even matter what NotLaurel did or did not say on the stand if Diaz had the judge and entire jury locked down? 

So even when Oliver was fighting for his freedom, and probably his life if he ended up in prison, the new Black Canary (I honestly have blocked her name out) still wants to act like a pouty child about helping him? Seriously, what the hell did Oliver do that was so bad? He didn’t listen to them? He didn’t trust them? So now he is the devil who can burn in hell? Again, as with the Diggle breakup, the writers did a shitty job of creating a cohesive, realistic story around what warrants this kind of anger. Every.Single.Time the Nub Team hears Oliver’s name they make a shitty, childish comment and in response, I hate them even more. Their “reasons” are idiotic and for me, there is no redemption. And I used to really like Curtis...

[AudienceofOne]

No words for the stupid. 

[ramble]

Oh yippie a trial episode. Sigh. But hey Tommy, or almost Tommy. I’ll take what I can get. I’ve been so checked out and just watching as hebit for almost two years now. More sighs. I don’t enjoy the villain. He’s not fun to hate. I don’t like any earth’s version of Laurel. Defanged Oliver is not enjoyable. The new crew still makes me want to spew. Why am I watching? Oh yeah. The Olicity. And I enjoy me some Diggle. It’s the original crew that works. 

[DeadZeus]

I liked the episode more than i thought i would... But one thing and one thing only COMPLETELY ruined the entire thing for me.

At the end of the trial, in the bunker... None of them thought that Diaz was gonna be pissed that the Judge "betrayed" him? They didn't offer him any protection after that?

I mean.. Dude gets murdered in cold blood. None of TA thought that might happen???? TBH i was literally shocked at this. Such heroes.... For all we know Diaz was threatening this man's family too. And TA just lets him die. Wow... How could they not know Diaz would go after that Judge wtf?????

[EmilyBettFan]

Was it a writing mistake they said Diggle's kid was kidnapped or are they foreshadowing? Anyway, loved all the Oliver and Felicity moments. 

Edited May 6, 2018 by EmilyBettFan

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, DeadZeus said:

I mean.. Dude gets murdered in cold blood. None of TA thought that might happen???? TBH i was literally shocked at this. Such heroes.... For all we know Diaz was threatening this man's family too. And TA just lets him die. Wow... How could they not know Diaz would go after that Judge wtf?????

Since Diggle and Rene were the ones who thought of it - and seemingly the only ones who knew for quite a while (since who knows what Oliver, Felicity and William did after they left the courthouse - did they go have a celebratory dinner? Have family time together?) - they should've thought of it. Since the show moved away from them all after we don't know that Oliver or Felicity didn't think of it at some point - but by then it would've probably been too late. 

[Twilight Man]

On 5/3/2018 at 10:06 PM, catrox14 said:

Maybe Cisco will come over, and open a breach and shove NotLaurel and Diaz into it. 

and please throw NTA into that breach while you're at it.

On 5/4/2018 at 12:31 AM, Cthulhudrew said:

I say we lobby for Christopher Chance to join Legends next season.

As much as I would like more Human Target, the last thing I want is him on "Legends".

That show is already giving me "Mission: Impossible" vibes; Putting a master of disguise on that show will just complete the picture.

[BunsenBurner]

53 minutes ago, EmilyBettFan said:

Was it a writing mistake they said Diggle's kid was kidnapped or are they foreshadowing? Anyway, loved all the Olver and Felicity moments. 

Oliver kidnapped baby Sara at one point but I would think that Flashpoint would have deleted that since it was her rather than JJ. 

[JamieLynn832002]

59 minutes ago, EmilyBettFan said:

Was it a writing mistake they said Diggle's kid was kidnapped or are they foreshadowing? Anyway, loved all the Olver and Felicity moments. 

I'm guessing either mistake or as @GHScorpiosRule suggested in Flashpoint, Oliver and the league kidnapped JJ instead of Lyla. I lean towards mistake since Dig didn't throw kidnapping JJ in Oliver's face during the fight in Brothers in Arms.

 

1 hour ago, DeadZeus said:

I liked the episode more than i thought i would... But one thing and one thing only COMPLETELY ruined the entire thing for me.

At the end of the trial, in the bunker... None of them thought that Diaz was gonna be pissed that the Judge "betrayed" him? They didn't offer him any protection after that?

I mean.. Dude gets murdered in cold blood. None of TA thought that might happen???? TBH i was literally shocked at this. Such heroes.... For all we know Diaz was threatening this man's family too. And TA just lets him die. Wow... How could they not know Diaz would go after that Judge wtf?????

They knew Diaz knew about Chance and that he was in town to help them, it may never have occurred to them that the super smart, unbeatable villain wouldn't figure out what actually happened.

Edited May 5, 2018 by JamieLynn832002

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, BunsenBurner said:

Oliver kidnapped baby Sara at one point but I would think that Flashpoint would have deleted that since it was her rather than JJ. 

He kidnapped Lyla and left baby Sara alone. And how would anyone outside the team know about that? 

[BunsenBurner]

32 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

He kidnapped Lyla and left baby Sara alone. And how would anyone outside the team know about that? 

Enough said!

[GHScorpiosRule]

38 minutes ago, BunsenBurner said:

Oliver kidnapped baby Sara at one point but I would think that Flashpoint would have deleted that since it was her rather than JJ. 

No, Oliver kidnapped Lyla. Baby Sara was never kidnapped.

[AudienceofOne]

On 05/05/2018 at 12:56 AM, apinknightmare said:

I think it's a little different here, at least. Diaz has somehow managed to get literally everyone at all levels of government on his payroll. He's got the cops, the courts, and the councilpersons.. Even Mayor Quentin is willing to sign off on pretty much anything to save his Not!Daughter. Oliver only managed to not go to jail because Rene was clever about it. Diaz is a loser and I can't even fathom how he found dirt on or came up with the money to pay off like, everyone in Star City - but even if Oliver offs Diaz, the corruption running through the city has got to be an intimidating prospect when you think about fixing the situation. 

But this is a city, not a country or even a state. Sometimes I watch this show and I think that the writers believe we still live in mediaeval city states. Why is Oliver even being tried in Star City when this was originally an FBI investigation? How can a CITY pass its own laws and send people to prison because of them two weeks later? How can Diaz control state and federal media? Why is state and federal law enforcement not concerned about organised crime in Star City. If ARGUS knows there's a problem, then federal law enforcement should be all over this place. 

Basically, we're supposed to be OUTRAGED that he's being railroaded but none of it makes sense.

And that's before we even ask ourself why Diaz didn't just kill Oliver since he's apparently so super duper all-powerful. 

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

But this is a city, not a country or even a state. Sometimes I watch this show and I think that the writers believe we still live in mediaeval city states. Why is Oliver even being tried in Star City when this was originally an FBI investigation? How can a CITY pass its own laws and send people to prison because of them two weeks later? How can Diaz control state and federal media? Why is state and federal law enforcement not concerned about organised crime in Star City. If ARGUS knows there's a problem, then federal law enforcement should be all over this place. 

Basically, we're supposed to be OUTRAGED that he's being railroaded but none of it makes sense.

And that's before we even ask ourself why Diaz didn't just kill Oliver since he's apparently so super duper all-powerful. 

The answer is very simple: because plot. 

[statsgirl]

15 hours ago, Lunula said:

Why the hell did it even matter what NotLaurel did or did not say on the stand if Diaz had the judge and entire jury locked down?

That's a very good point.  It was all fixed anyway.

And what did it matter what Rene said on the stand?  Although I will give them this, Diaz's hands on Zoe was the first time I've thought him scary.

Would Jean Loring even have a chance to appeal?  Diaz has apparently bought everyone in Star City.  Must be that 3-D printer printing money.

[Primal Slayer]

I guess Diaz just wanted it to look legit? Humiliate the entire team and see where Laurels allegiance stood.

[DeadZeus]

Sorry i literally can't get over the fact TA let the Judge die, they must have known Diaz wouldn't be happy at that Judge. Nothing in Arrow has ever bugged me so much... damn...

When Rene and Oliver apologised to eachother i wasn't rolling my eyes as i thought i would when they would make up... But i was kinda hoping Rene would also mention he didn't blame Oliver for putting him in the hospital cuz he attacked him with an Axe and they would laugh about it... Would have liked to see that.

Also pretty cool that Raise knows Oliver is GA... But ofc, who DOESN'T know at this point.

[Mellowyellow]

It's just occurred to me every time I see Curtis on screen I chant in my head "Die Curtis Die" to the tune of "Go Gadget Go"

[statsgirl]

I thought I heard Quentin tell Oliver that Laurel2 would be testifying and she would bring the CIA file on Human Target so everyone would know that it isn't Tommy.

How would Diaz have got the CIA file?  I can see him infiltrating the SCPD, and maybe some FBI agents but that's less likely. But the CIA?  How would he even know what to ask?

[bijoux]

I'm not sure I actually consider this a good episode, but it had some honestly touching and shocking moments.

In the first category, (1) SA's performance when Oliver was telling Jean he wanted a life after the Green Arrow. I actually found nothing contrary to the purpose of him uniting both sides of himself, but the realization that he wanted a long and fulfilled life with his family. GA is hardly a job one would do in his 60's. (2) Oliver's face when he saw "Tommy" in the courtroom was heart wrenching. The fact that they revealed later on he actually knew it was Chance made his emotions all the more poignant. (3) Felicity during their talk about what she and William should do in case of Oliver going to prison. I mean, just

In the shocking category, the verdict. I knew about Oliver getting aquitted, but I expected that to be the jury's doing and was legitimitely looking forward to having it confirmed that at least 7 of SC's denizens aren't corrupt morons. Then came the judge and there being one completely unexpected non-corrupt non-moron. And then bam, it's Chance. Kudos on that.

Was that the first time the newcaster lady appeared "live" on the show and not just on screens? Good for her!

On 04. 05. 2018. at 5:24 AM, KenyaJ said:

And I'm cracking up at the scene where Human Target hands the judge mask to William. That kid is having the most interesting upbringing right now. Beats being subjected to a lifetime of coloring with Samantha.

William weirded out by the mask was his best acting moment.

On 05. 05. 2018. at 3:02 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

And also? Strawman argument trying to discredit Felicity when bringing up her father. First, she was estranged from her dad, so she wouldn’t know he was a hacker/the Calculator. Unlike knowing and loving Oliver.????????

I was unclear about why Felicity simply didn't say Noah walked out on her when she was 7. 

This got cut, I assume? I expected the rest to walk into Rene's apartment after Oliver.

[bijoux]

The arrest is actually an even better argument for Felicity not likely to be in kahoots with a criminal in her family. 

[BkWurm1]

On 5/4/2018 at 2:03 PM, tennisgurl said:

I loved the Susan reference, because her holding into that picture makes my hatred of her retroactively justified. Even if was threatened, she still kept the picture, and that means she still sucks, and I knew it from the start.

In order for them to threaten her, they'd have to know she had the photo and how would they know that unless she was flashing it around or making perhaps not so cryptic comments to her coworkers.  Or she's as much in Diaz's pocket as everyone else.  Maybe she even volunteered it to get on his good side.  Or maybe it was just a bit of payback for Oliver dumping her right after she was kidnapped and never spending another second thinking about her.  That had to sting.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

14 hours ago, jaye.elle said:

Possibly because Felicity had Noah arrested in 4x12 (or 4x13?), so she has obviously had some interaction since he left. Plus he was at their wedding.

But the prosecuting attorney made it sound like they'd never been estranged, that Felicity grew up with her father around. And so what if he was at her wedding reception. Cuz only Diggle, Barry and Iris were at their actual wedding. It's just lazy ass plot contrivance.

[apinknightmare]

16 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

But the prosecuting attorney made it sound like they'd never been estranged, that Felicity grew up with her father around. And so what if he was at her wedding reception. Cuz only Diggle, Barry and Iris were at their actual wedding. It's just lazy ass plot contrivance.

But the prosecuting attorney's job wasn't to shine a light on what their actual relationship is, it was to manipulate what she knew about Felicity and Noah's relationship and weigh the likelihood that Felicity wouldn't rat out her dad in court to present the relationship in a way that made it seem like Felicity was naive and unreliable when it came to insisting that Oliver wasn't the Green Arrow. 

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

But the prosecuting attorney's job wasn't to shine a light on what their actual relationship is, it was to manipulate what she knew about Felicity and Noah's relationship and weigh the likelihood that Felicity wouldn't rat out her dad in court to present the relationship in a way that made it seem like Felicity was naive and unreliable when it came to insisting that Oliver wasn't the Green Arrow. 

I'm not a lawyer, but I watched plenty of trials on TV and movies and this seemed like a perfect opportunity for a redirect. Sure, the judge could have denied Jean, but it would have been nice if she had tried. I agree, the prosecuting attorney's job was to discredit Felicity, but it was Jean's job to make her seem credible as possible.

[Chaser]

Jean not cross examining Felicity really annoyed me. All she had to do is stand up and ask Felicity if she was the one who turned her father into the police.