Spoilers and Speculation: Clink Boom and Cheese Fondue

[IWantCandy71]

I don't think the problem is the story playing out slowly. I think it is so badly done that we want it to be finished. 

Yes, that's what I said. The problem wasn't in the length. The problem was in the construction.

[Oracle42]

But that's been a problem with all of his stories

[IWantCandy71]

Oh, ICAM. No argument there.  The thing is, in the beginning, weren't the stories more coherent? I wonder what happened, if so. Did he just get tired? Or were we all just so enamored of the shiny and new, that we chose to ignore the signs that were there all along?

[ulkis]

Oh, ICAM. No argument there.  The thing is, in the beginning, weren't the stories more coherent? I wonder what happened, if so. Did he just get tired? Or were we all just so enamored of the shiny and new, that we chose to ignore the signs that were there all along?

 

I think a little bit of both. I was annoyed at a lot of his stuff right from the start. I don't think the stories were that much more coherent. Ewan the psychiatrist sheep farmer working for Jerry Jacks and Jerry Jacks working for Faison and blah blah blah was a mess. So was all the added backstory to Connie/Kate, and then he swept it all away in a hot minute.

[Oracle42]

I think the balanced canvas was such a relief that we ignored the structure issues - and we may have attributed some of it to the HW changeover. I think it's been a consistent weakness for him but it became worse when he lost his OLTL anchors

Edited August 12, 2015 by Oracle42

[jsbt]

I think there was a lot of good in the first year (and by that I mean, 2012-April 2013 or so). But there were also always some really dumb or messy stories - Connie/Kate, Anna/Luke/Heather, Trey and NuKristina, random-ass Shawn and Alexis. That shit was just bad, but often a lot of it at least had fun beats or payoffs: Anna beat the shit out of Heather and took charge and it dovetailed into the Robin story; Shawn and Alexis was a minor beat in the great water crisis. The show improved a lot more as it went along through the year, and weeded out the deadwood, and I forgave a lot of the ridiculous shit because there were usually elements, characters, larger choices that worked - A.J.'s return, the Robin thread that hadn't yet gone stale, the early return of Lucy back when Sabrina and Felix were still palatable together, and so forth.

 

And yeah, I thought McBain/Sam, the baby swap with Téa in Llanview, and much of Todd's material really worked. I thought that for the most part they were very good to the Blair character onscreen and true to that relationship, even if the actress got jerked around. I thought that baby story was a rare good one for Ron, I felt it fit all the characters involved - Todd's desperate, dysfunctional need to make shit up to Téa, Heather's long history with babynapping, and a connection to the larger ABC soap canvas. And while the Faison/Duke story was ludicrous on paper, it worked for me because the tension and pacing was there, the actors were extremely present and involved and sold the hell out of it, and Robin was still in the mix and we expected development in that story to come out of it (it didn't).

 

The water crisis was their highwater (haha!) mark, IMO. The show was far from perfect, but it got better and better and it had real goodwill, possibly because for part of that time they thought they would be gone any day. Then they started fucking around. Of course, if we hadn't gone on we wouldn't have gotten A.J. and Michael's relationship, or some of the good stuff in the ELQ wars, or Ava, or Lucas, or the variably successful Lucas/Brad invisible romance, or any number of other characters or things I've enjoyed. But after that first year-plus, the wheels came off. I also think the dialogue and pacing got worse and worse once Frank realized he was safe for awhile.

 

That being said, a lot of the months surrounding Robin's big return in 2013, or at least the material for that story itself, had really excellent, driving stuff. I did a lot of bitching about the stall-outs at Wyndemere and so on but a lot of that was a great time. It's just that they failed to keep the investment going, because they failed to realize its source: Robin, Anna, Robert, Patrick, etc.

Edited August 11, 2015 by jsbt

[magnolia11]

I agree about the good things that you mention, jsbt.  There were a lot of fun things to watch during that time.  I think everything going to hell can be traced to when they were forced to give up the OLTL characters and they brought the actors back as poorly-conceived messes of characters.

[ulkis]

I think the balance canvas was such a relief that we ignored the structure issues - and we may have attributed some of it to the HW changeover. I think it's been a consistent weakness for him but it became worse when he lost his OLTL anchors

 

I would say the show was pretty decent the two months or so the OLTL characters were gone. I don't think it was losing those characters pe se that drove him off the rails - it was trying to make their new characters work.

[jsbt]

Yeah, the show was popping better than ever for them at that point, IMO. It collapsed when they returned, in a more spectacular way than I had anticipated because it was then that I realized everything good they'd been doing (A.J. and Carly, etc.) had merely been filler to Ron.

 

I mean, imagine if Carly had spent the last year torn between a conventional, safe reunion with Sonny and a secret affair with A.J.? Good lord!

Edited August 11, 2015 by jsbt

[HeatLifer]

That being said, a lot of the months surrounding Robin's big return in 2013, or at least the material for that story itself, had really excellent, driving stuff. I did a lot of bitching about the stall-outs at Wyndemere and so on but a lot of that was a great time. It's just that they failed to keep the investment going, because they failed to realize its source: Robin, Anna, Robert, Patrick, etc.

I think GH really took a hit whenever Robin left. Every time. The situation is what it is, but the character's popularity and the popularity of her pairing can't be denied and, IMO, really fucked up a lot of aspects of the show, especially because of the improper way it was handled on top of everything.

[SlovakPrincess]

.... It's just that they failed to keep the investment going, because they failed to realize its source: Robin, Anna, Robert, Patrick, etc.

Yes! The way they have devalued these characters (and really, the hospital itself and anyone who is not mob or psycho) is simply mind boggling to me.

Fine, keep the mob and have a psycho villian from time to time, but there needs to be balance. Since the Robin rescue in 2013, have we had ANY decent stories of decent people winning out over evil?

Oh, man, jsbt, Carly cheating on Sonny with AJ in a torrid affair would have been GOLD! I might have even not FF'd Sonny scenes for that ...

Edited August 11, 2015 by SlovakPrincess

[dubbel zout]

I think everything going to hell can be traced to when they were forced to give up the OLTL characters and they brought the actors back as poorly-conceived messes of characters.

 

Yeah, Ron put no thought into how to reintroduce the actors. That became sadly typical: Ron and Frank rush to put an actor on contract without thinking through where and now the character will fit in.

 

I mean, imagine if Carly had spent the last year torn between a conventional, safe reunion with Sonny and a secret affair with A.J.? Good lord!

 

Especially because of how much Carly and AJ hate their attraction to each other. But AJ was fat, so of course nothing like that could happen.

Edited August 11, 2015 by dubbel zout

[MSquared]

 

I mean, imagine if Carly had spent the last year torn between a conventional, safe reunion with Sonny and a secret affair with A.J.? Good lord!

 

What a perfect combination of words==secret affair with AJ.  Man, that's the stuff fanfictions are made of.

[jsbt]

And you could've outed them at this upcoming doomed wedding! Oh, it's good, and a sort of diabolical reversal, because it shows how wacky GH has gotten that Sonny and Carly wedding for the 10th time is now the establishment option.

[Badsamaritan]

And you could've outed them at this upcoming doomed wedding! Oh, it's good, and a sort of diabolical reversal, because it shows how wacky GH has gotten that Sonny and Carly wedding for the 10th time is now the establishment option.

Oh Em Gee can you imagine the fallout from that? And Sonny could have still shot AJ after learning the truth, injuring him critically but not fatally. Michael could have still turned away from Sonny after witnessing him shooting his father. Carly in her wedding dress, covered in blood from rushing to AJ, insisting upon riding in the ambulance while all hell breaks loose. Could've been 100 times better than the Connie/Sonny non-wedding and the HalloWedding combined!

Let me stop right now, sigh.

[Tiger]

Oh Em Gee can you imagine the fallout from that? And Sonny could have still shot AJ after learning the truth, injuring him critically but not fatally. Michael could have still turned away from Sonny after witnessing him shooting his father. Carly in her wedding dress, covered in blood from rushing to AJ, insisting upon riding in the ambulance while all hell breaks loose. Could've been 100 times better than the Connie/Sonny non-wedding and the HalloWedding combined!

Let me stop right now, sigh.

:crying over CarnAJ: Their one night stand was so fucking hot. The build-up to the kiss when she was goading him to drink and he knocked the glass out of her hands . . .

Fuck YOU RON FOR FUCKING THAT UP. AND MO DID AND DOES HAVE BIGGER BOBS THAN SEAN EVER DID!

Edited August 12, 2015 by Tiger

[yowsah1]

Oh, ICAM. No argument there.  The thing is, in the beginning, weren't the stories more coherent? I wonder what happened, if so. Did he just get tired? Or were we all just so enamored of the shiny and new, that we chose to ignore the signs that were there all along?

 

All of Ron's recent stuff to me has show the classic signs of writer's burnout.

[Oracle42]

Oh, man, jsbt, Carly cheating on Sonny with AJ in a torrid affair would have been GOLD! I might have even not FF'd Sonny scenes for that ...

Just the thought of that story made me whimper a little because it could have been SO FUCKING GOOD. Carly and Sonny are a dead end at this point - for both characters.

An AJ/Carly affair with AJ being shot at the S&C wedding, Michael hating him and Sonny ending up with one of Dandesun's darkness or redemption options? I'd have been glued to my seat.

Instead RC decided to play out his Blair/Todd fanfiction with Franco and Carly, killed off AJ and used Michael's beautiful Sonny hatred to facilitate the Sabrina/Michael pairing that is so boring and saccharine that it almost makes me miss Michael/Starr

Edited August 12, 2015 by Oracle42

[ulkis]

https://amp.twimg.com/v/65e7e911-a77b-458c-805f-db8b0b5168c0

Hilarious. Poor Silas, he's even an afterthought in the promo in his own murder mystery promo.

Edited August 12, 2015 by ulkis

[HeatLifer]

Um...that's clearly a promo for "GH: Watch Anything Else...We Mean ANYTHING else...Is 'Cheaters' On?...During This 1 Hour Period Monday-Friday."

[TeeVee329]

I can't believe they have "Who Killed Silas?" as the subtitle.  "Who Cares?" might be more accurate.

 

And UGH at the "Look, the mob, and Sonny, how cool, right!" slant of this.

[ulkis]

I can't believe they have "Who Killed Silas?" as the subtitle. "Who Cares?" might be more accurate.

And UGH at the "Look, the mob, and Sonny, how cool, right!" slant of this.

The subtitle should just be "who?"

[twoods]

:crying over CarnAJ: Their one night stand was so fucking hot. The build-up to the kiss when she was goading him to drink and he knocked the glass out of her

D!

Seriously. They were so hot. I can't believe that they didn't go there with an a secret affair and Sonny losing his mind when they found out. What a waste on great chemistry. Same with Rosalie and Morgan- they had "it" but the writers didn't go there.

[WendyCR72]

I'm glad this show never went with Carly and AJ. Jesus, the man suffered enough being associated with her, and that includes the meathook shit. I don't care how "hot" they may have been.

 

Too bad they have a connection forever (as much as Carly and Sonny tried to erase it) through Michael as it is.

 

But, to me, putting AJ with someone who made his life hell just because she could and got off on it would be almost as bad as making AJ fall off the wagon. Neither booze nor Carly ever did anything good for AJ in the end.

[HeatLifer]

So, assuming that spoiler of Hayden spilling the Borg secret to Patrick is true, I guess we'll get the Proposal of Utter Desperation soon and the wedding or weddings in November? Do we have to wait another three months to end this Jason shit? Really?!

Answering this here just to be on the safe side...

I don't even think it's a spoiler that Hayden tells Patrick...it was just an assumption based on the "Hayden confides in Patrick, Patrick is desperate to keep Sam" spoiler. I'm still not convinced this show will ever make Patrick look bad.

And the reveal is definitely gonna be in October or November. October if they're smart. So it'll be in November.

[Oracle42]

I figured it would be near Jason's wedding anniversary or his death day anniversary

[HeatLifer]

I WANT it to be September. That's wedding anniversary, right? And it's sooner, man. I can't take 3-4 months of Liz talking to herself!

Edited August 12, 2015 by HeatLifer

[Francie]

https://amp.twimg.com/v/65e7e911-a77b-458c-805f-db8b0b5168c0

Hilarious. Poor Silas, he's even an afterthought in the promo in his own murder mystery promo.

Did Sonny think that winding up his gun like it's a baseball and he's a pitcher on the mound would make the bullet go faster? 

 

You guys weren't kidding about Sonny twirling.  Now I can't get this moment from Postcards from the Edge out of my head:

 

https://youtu.be/ExS5prihfoM?t=7s

 

("IT TWIRLED UP!")

 

I had a dubbel zout black out rage just looking at the .5 second clip of Nina.  You ain't "edgy," Stafford.  You ain't commanding the screen.  You're just being indulged by an exec producer who doesn't know any better.

 

I can't help but laugh at Michael Easton having to lay on that floor, not moving. He must have been bored to death.  I call that karma for all the times he bored us to death.*

 

*But I did like McBain as Anna's friend and confidante.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Francie

[IWantCandy71]

I think a little bit of both. I was annoyed at a lot of his stuff right from the start. I don't think the stories were that much more coherent. Ewan the psychiatrist sheep farmer working for Jerry Jacks and Jerry Jacks working for Faison and blah blah blah was a mess. So was all the added backstory to Connie/Kate, and then he swept it all away in a hot minute.

 

I really didn't watch much when Ewan was on-but the Connie/Kate stuff....OY. I did like the Connie and Tracy tentative friendship-they actually made sense as friends without having to justify it.

[IWantCandy71]

All of Ron's recent stuff to me has show the classic signs of writer's burnout.

 

I think he was told some time ago he was going to be let go if ratings didn't improve, and he just stopped caring. I mean, I guess it's burnout, but to me, things like the little Jake being alive explanation just reeks of "I don't care anymore". To just fade to commercial instead of explaining it? Says to me that he's just like "eh". Where for me, burnout would be, he's going to explain it, but it's not going to make ANY sense, or just be a really awful story all the way around.

But I guess it's really sort of the same thing-half a dozen of one, six of another.

So, SID is saying Hayden will be connected to a core family. I think connected to is different from "a part of". So my guess is again, she'll be Susan, or some other as yet unknown kid of Paul's. That would make her "connected to" the Q's, but not an actual member of the family. But maybe  I am reading too much into the wording. As long as she's not another Jerome or Corinthos, I'm good. And honestly the main reason I'm thinking this, is that I think Paul may still be involved in the ELQ takeover, but behind the scenes, and Hayden helped. This is mainly because I don't want Paul to be involved with the mob again, but also because I think RBu and RPW could easily pass as brother and sister.

Edited August 12, 2015 by IWantCandy71

[dubbel zout]

And UGH at the "Look, the mob, and Sonny, how cool, right!" slant of this.

 

Not to mention part gazillion of "You call it business; I call it betraaaaayal!" Zzzz.

 

So, SID is saying Hayden will be connected to a core family.

 

Of course she is. Ron always has to tie everyone together. Maybe this will be something the new HWs will change. NOT EVERYONE HAS TO BE RELATED. 

Edited August 12, 2015 by dubbel zout

[ulkis]

Of course she is. Ron always has to tie everyone together. Maybe this will be something the new HWs will change. NOT EVERYONE HAS TO BE RELATED. 

 

Seriously - RC added the Jeromes and suddenly everyone became more weirdly interrelated, not less.

[TeeVee329]

Not to mention part gazillion of "You call it business; I call it betraaaaayal!" Zzzz.

 

After cheating on one son's mother by banging the second son's girlfriend IN A CRYPT where relatives of the third son were laid to rest, Sonny should never utter the word "betraaaaaayal!" again.

 

SID is saying Hayden will be connected to a core family.

 

Ugh, she's totally going to be a Q, isn't she?  "You wanted more Q's, here, take Rebecca Budig!".  No thankee.

 

But I do think the push on Rebecca Budig (I'm never going to call her Hayden, btw) is more Frank and the new writers than Ron.

[jsbt]

I remember the claim being that Frank and Ron jointly came up with the idea of tying the Jerome arc into Sam's search for her father - thus, Julian became Sam's dad. It's never really worked for me.

 

I did want Hayden to turn out to be Susan Hornsby. But I also wanted (and still want) Hayden to be off the show in six months or less.

[Oracle42]

I think there was a lot of good in the first year (and by that I mean, 2012-April 2013 or so). But there were also always some really dumb or messy stories - Connie/Kate, Anna/Luke/Heather, Trey and NuKristina, random-ass Shawn and Alexis. That shit was just bad, but often a lot of it at least had fun beats or payoffs: Anna beat the shit out of Heather and took charge and it dovetailed into the Robin story; Shawn and Alexis was a minor beat in the great water crisis. The show improved a lot more as it went along through the year, and weeded out the deadwood, and I forgave a lot of the ridiculous shit because there were usually elements, characters, larger choices that worked - A.J.'s return, the Robin thread that hadn't yet gone stale, the early return of Lucy back when Sabrina and Felix were still palatable together, and so forth.

That's actually the worst thing about RC - he has really good instincts for the big soapy payoff moment but the story leading up to that moment? Ugh.

I think he had great ideas and there were good character moments and interactions but there's not one full story I'd go back and watch again

[ulkis]

That's actually the worst thing about RC - he has really good instincts for the big soapy payoff moment but the story leading up to that moment? Ugh.

I think he had great ideas and there were good character moments and interactions but there's not one full story I'd go back and watch again

 

to be fair, I'd probably say the same about Guza. The last "full story" I would watch is Dante's undercover arc, and that was pretty shoddy as well.  Well, maybe Robin's rescue in 2013.

[HeatLifer]

Ugh, she's totally going to be a Q, isn't she? "You wanted more Q's, here, take Rebecca Budig!". No thankee.

But I do think the push on Rebecca Budig (I'm never going to call her Hayden, btw) is more Frank and the new writers than Ron.

I'm so tired of this show shoving characters down my throat that they need to suddenly redeem. I don't care who Hayden is related to or how sympathetic they try to make her. She's a FAIL. I'm just the wrong type of viewer for this shit. Sorry, GH. I'm not gonna forget about sex-crazed, scam artist Hayden!

Meanwhile, the show has no problem tearing the character of Liz to SHREDS. FOH.

[Oracle42]

to be fair, I'd probably say the same about Guza. The last "full story" I would watch is Dante's undercover arc, and that was pretty shoddy as well. Well, maybe Robin's rescue in 2013.

I think my problem with Guza's stories in the 2000s was more of a content issue and even then there was a coherent narrative

[testardo]

All of Ron's recent stuff to me has show the classic signs of writer's burnout.

He'sa writer ??? Could have fooled me.

[Box305]

Ooh maybe Hayden will be a plastic surgeried, not dead Georgie! 

 

Kidding. 

[thewhiteowl]

 

The person who is really being sacrificed for this Jakeson shit is Liz.  Patrick and Sam may be podded, but she is being utterly decimated to serve this dumbass story.

 

 So far but Jake Doe is Jason Morgan as much as Jason Morgan was Jason Q. Which is to say, not at all. Knowing he was Jason Q didn't automatically turn back into a Q. Why should knowing he's Jason turn him back into Jason? He is Jake and he loves Liz. He'll understand that she loved him too much to let him go. Haha, I know I will be blasted for this opinion but so what?

 

[ulkis]

Ooh maybe Hayden will be a plastic surgeried, not dead Georgie! 

 

Kidding. 

 

Hmm, maybe that's why Rebecca Budig's driver's license said she was born in 1984!

Edited August 12, 2015 by ulkis

[Francie]

Hmm, maybe that's why Rebecca Budig's driver's license said she was born in 1984!

It did? Shit! Fuck! Shit! &*(#$&*(&$#*($& $*($&*(#$&*(@#$&*(&$!!!

 

Want to know why?

 

Because 1984 was the year before Anna showed up in Port Charles.

 

Fuck! Shit! Fuck!!!!

[GHScorpiosRule]

 So far but Jake Doe is Jason Morgan as much as Jason Morgan was Jason Q. Which is to say, not at all. Knowing he was Jason Q didn't automatically turn back into a Q. Why should knowing he's Jason turn him back into Jason? He is Jake and he loves Liz. He'll understand that she loved him too much to let him go. Haha, I know I will be blasted for this opinion but so what?

 

 

Here's my take on this, and I say this with having no stake in this "storyline" : That if/when Jason gets angry with Liz for hiding his true identity a secret (and I, by no means HATE this story and how delusional and selfish they've made Liz for it), she can (or might) come back with--you're the one who didn't care about your past, and didn't bother to investigate and find out who you were and if you had any loved ones/family out there.  And it would be a fair statement--because from what scenes I didn't fast forward--that's been his mantra all along--he's not even curious about his past.

[HeatLifer]

It did? Shit! Fuck! Shit! &*(#$&*(&$#*($& $*($&*(#$&*(@#$&*(&$!!!

Want to know why?

Because 1984 was the year before Anna showed up in Port Charles.

Fuck! Shit! Fuck!!!!

LOL. I can't!

[jsbt]

Jason's dumb ass probably won't get that mad at her, just like he's never gotten that mad at her when she does heinous shit. Or maybe they'll break the mold this time, I don't know. I hope so.

 

Whatever Jason has or hasn't done while he's had amnesia, he's been manipulated by a variety of people every step of the way, Liz included - after what "Jake" has been through, I can't blame him for wanting some semblance of perceived permanence and security with Liz and her sons. And it takes me a hell of a fucking lot to defend Jason on any level.

[HeatLifer]

Frank has already said that Sam and Jason will have explosive reactions and Nik and Liz will suffer consequences to the lie.

I think the show will go there.

Edited August 12, 2015 by HeatLifer

[TeeVee329]

I do think that, a la Maria on AMC, the reveal will start with Jake(son) finding out he's Jason, but not getting those feelings and memories back.  And in that scenario, I think he'll be torn between the feelings he actually has for Liz and the feelings he's being told he should have for Sam (and the later would be interesting, again, if Sam and Jake(son) were still antagonistic towards each other).

[HeatLifer]

I do think that, a la Maria on AMC, the reveal will start with Jake(son) finding out he's Jason, but not getting those feelings and memories back. And in that scenario, I think he'll be torn between the feelings he actually has for Liz and the feelings he's being told he should have for Sam (and the later would be interesting, again, if Sam and Jake(son) were still antagonistic towards each other).

I just don't think the show will postpone this anymore, and comments made at the GH events over the weekend make it clear. Especially Billy's comments that he "signed up to play Jason." He's going to play Jason, memories and all.

[dubbel zout]

I think my problem with Guza's stories in the 2000s was more of a content issue and even then there was a coherent narrative

 

I think this is me, too.