S02.E14: Chapter Twenty-Seven: The Hills Have Eyes

[The Crazed Spruce]

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When Hiram suggests that Veronica and Archie head up to their lake house for the weekend, Veronica decides to invite Betty and Jughead to join them; Cheryl makes a surprising connection with an unlikely friend.

[WhosThatGirl]

Well. Here goes this episode.

 

And I’m just going to say it, I already feel like a ton was shown for this episode before it even aired. RAS has about eight screen shots from the episode and on Instagram from fan accounts, there were three clips floating around by 7 pm. Just saying. They gave quite a lot away by this afternoon of this episode. 

 

Anyways.. seriously what is Chic as a character? Ugh. That opening was creepy as hell.

 

I love Cheryl. Her scene with her mom “you ruined my chance at Love!!” “With Hal Cooper?!? pfft!”

 

So yeah, it was obviously suspicious for Hiram to offer his cabin for his daughter and her boyfriend to use, he’s obviously doing something not great, why else would he suggest this? That’s so strange to just give four teenagers a cabin. So yeah I wasn’t surprised that he has some sort of “party” to keep them away.

 

Poor Jones’s.  Having to move.

 

Love Simon cross promotion. Midget knows that Moose has hooked up with Kevin? Midge is really open minded. Good for Midge, I guess.

 

Aw Cheryl just wants friends but also.. really don’t make her angry. Seriously she knows everyone’s secrets.

 

Aw the Bughead scene in the newspaper office. 

 

Jughead meets Chic for the first time and he’s creepy. And says that if anyone else finds out about the dead body, it will be trouble for Betty and Alice. Which. Shut up Chic. Why is he here again? Does chic really add anything to this show? And again I ask why are people hoping he’s Alice and FPS child? I’m not against Falice but I’m against Chic being their love child. Chic is a terrible character who might be the most predictable character ever written. The only redeeming thing will be if they kill him soon and I do not see that happening. 

 

Anyways, cabin stuff! Yay. Or not. 

 

I did like the scene where the core four all arrived at the cabin and Archie noticed that he had a gun in his jacket, it gave me hope that not all the cabin activities will be relationship drama central. And like look I’m all for more Bughead times but yeah.. would like other things besides that. Plus I’m not looking forward to the hot tub scene.

 

Knew Cheryl would tell Jughead about the kiss, love that she did it over a phone call. It is messed up that neither Betty or even Archie told him. That’s messed up. 

 

As for Cheryl, I mean, not surprised, glad we finally got a Cheryl/Toni scene which we needed instead of having Cheryl become a stalker for

Josie just because Josie saved her from her assault from Nick but that’s not a good reason, considering the other PCDs stopped it as did Veronica so whatever. And also for Toni having her kiss Jughead just because.. like we could have been getting scenes like that amazing bathroom scene(there’s chemistry already, I ship it).

 

“That would be like the 12th time this year” re Bughead. Yeah it would Archie.  But yay at least Bughead is actually talking! Finally. Where have they this whole season? Also yay at least it’s dead buried. Hopefully.

 

Love Veronica trying to be helpful and fix Bughead with the tension that wasn’t about the kiss by getting them all drunk in the hot tub and suggesting they kiss. But also ew.. why is Jughead also into the suggestion.. ew!

 

That kiss was odd. From the still, it didn’t look like Jughead was enjoying it but now I don’t really know. It was just odd. And now seeing the scene I just didn’t like it. Also no it’s not all even until Archie and Jughead kiss.  

 

I don’t know how I feel about the wig stuff, I don’t. So whatever but at least Bughead seems to be okay with it.

 

Also the squeaking bed stuff with both couples.. aw.

 

I wonder what Veronica thought Archie was doing when he ran off into the woods before following and then seeing André.

 

Sheriff Keller just hangs out openly in the Mcoys house and the affair happens in the House.. okay, no wonder Josie has issues.

 

Aw, Archie and Jughead finally talking. That’s been forever too. 

 

Poor kevin. I hope Josie buried the leed nice enough. God that sucks.

 

Veronica and Betty having a sort of nice friendship scene. Also love Betty putting the end on flirting with random store guy and Veronica. 

 

Also eh.. who knows what’s going on with Varchie and Hiram. He’s on the business but he’s not? 

 

And now I’m wondering what went down with Hiram and the trailers. Jughead seemed surprised by FP saying Jughead shammed him into saving Sunnyside but it didn’t seem like Jughead had printed the article yet. So.. yeah.. Hiram is buying all of Southside, and yeah Jughead is right, Hiram wants something.

Why didn’t we hear what Josie said to Kevin? I want to know! We didn’t get to hear it. I mean it probably wasn’t great but damn.. can they at least give Josie something? Poor Josie and Kevin though.

Worst date ever! Midge moose and Kevin. Okay so midge doesn’t know? That’s a big thing to lie about Moose. It would have been better if midge had been aware of it and been fine with it. 

Josie seems like a fun character in this episode. 

More Toni and Cheryl stat! Adorable.

Also.. Hiram is buying everything in Riverdale! I knew it. He’s turning it into Lodgedale. I called that forever ago in this season. I still am not entirely clear on what exactly Hiram Lodge does though, you guys. 

The core four fight made so much sense. “There’s nothing evil about buying a newspaper” but yeah.. there is. 

Also Veronica shut up, Betty’s right you and Archie never talk and while Bughead May be tragic at least they have conversations. You and Archie barley do and when you talk, you don’t make any sense at the end of your conversations.

I don’t know why they had random people come in to rob the kids. What was the point of that?  It was just stupid and dumb and I feel like thrown in there just to eat up time and to show André Corning in the woods and killing that one guy. Just because? That scene was pointless. 

 

Kevin and Josie meet with their parents and try to discuss arrangements. Aw. Seriously, Mayor MCCoy and Sheriff.. what were you thinking? 

 

Aw Cheryl.. and Cheryl was in love with some girl. Aw. And yay Toni and Cheryl.

 

Aw core four diner scene. 

 

This episode was fun. It’s been a while since I’ve said that.. Except for the guys robbing them and André killing one, but I guess the point was to show Archie would kill someone or if he wanted to. So.. not good stuff then. And then Hiram gave him a key to something? 

 

Also yes Jughead tell Betty Chic is off! He is. And I’m already sick of him. 

I really liked this episode.  It’s been a while since I could say that.

[Dee]

The Cabin Foursome needs to be pushed into the sea ASAP.

Everyone else can stay.

[SeanC]

7 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

And then Hiram gave him a key to something? 

That was Veronica’s locket, which the douche robber stole.

[Advance35]

The whole Kevin thing was WAY to underwritten.  If my Dad were cheating on my Mom, I would not be sitting in a booth with his side piece and her daughter.  I know sometimes a series likes to sap up the wrap up with some storylines but I wish they hadn't in this instance.

I like when Veronica is obliviously high maintenance, so her having Archie struggle with her bags made me giggle more than it should have.  This episode did a good job of showing that while Veronica is admirably well-read and polished, she is the most out of touch.  Also interesting, last year I felt like Veronica was way more into Archie than he was, into her.  Now I think it may be the reverse.  I think she cares about Archie a great deal, but I think she finds him a reliable studhorse and may love the idea of being in love.  That doesn't mean she can't genuinely fall at some point.   All of her outfits were flawless this episode by the by.

I do think her little stunt with Jughead was more for her own sense of justice, then any desire to help residual issues with Bughead.  Loved the way everyone looked at her. I get the impression Archie loves Veronica, and may be on his way to falling in love with her.  I get the impression (nasty fights aside) Betty cares a great deal about her and I even get the impression Jughead likes her (despite her pedigree) because of what she means to Archie and Betty but I also like when the writing and acting show that Veronica didn't grow up with these people.  They've taken her to heart, but sometimes you can tell she's still a new element to them.

For all the writing flaws this show has, the robbery was dripping with suspense for me, that could be because I had just seen a commercial for that horror movie "The Strangers" but still, very well done.   And nice call back to Archie's trauma over the black hood.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

That was Veronica’s locket, which the douche robber stole.

Thanks. I couldn’t really tell what it was.

I hated the robbery scene. I get that it was suppused to be a call back for Archie and everything he went through but it didn’t add anything for me to this otherwise pretty great episode. It just felt like they needed something to eat up time and undo the core four fight. 

As for the couples, I think Bughead is pretty strong but I’m unsure about Varchie. They talk but they they don’t really talk. They never resolve anything. So I’m really unsure about them.

Also above poster yeah.. I think the other three do care a lot about her in their own ways. I think Archie may really be in love with her, I think Betty cares about her too, and Jughead likes her by proxy. But like you’ve said they’ve only know each about half a year at this point. I do think it’ll be interesting to see where the series goes with the character, I think there will be a stalemate at some point because of what her father is doing to people she claims to care about. 

Edited March 8, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[SeanC]

The possibility of Cheryl and Toni being a thing was one of those ideas that was raised in fan speculation, etc. pretty much before the season started, and seemed to be broadly where things were headed based on the early interviews about Cheryl getting a love interest, etc., so it's a bit strange in one sense how long it took to get that plot going.  But now that it's here, the early signs are promising.

[WhosThatGirl]

6 minutes ago, SeanC said:

The possibility of Cheryl and Toni being a thing was one of those ideas that was raised in fan speculation, etc. pretty much before the season started, and seemed to be broadly where things were headed based on the early interviews about Cheryl getting a love interest, etc., so it's a bit strange in one sense how long it took to get that plot going.  But now that it's here, the early signs are promising.

It took them too long. And we had to suffer through Cheryl being a stalker for Josie to get here. Also randomly having Toni and Jughead kiss for reasons? When we could have been getting the scenes we got tonight between the two I don’t understand.

[AdorkableSars]

This episode taught me that Lodge Lodge needs to invest in new beds...or at the very least new mattresses and box springs. No way should those beds be squeaking so much that you can hear them through the walls. Come on Hiram, get it together, man. Other things:

• My heart broke for Cheryl. Penelope is just an awful, AWFUL mother and human. People wonder why Cheryl is so bitchy, and she is (as this episode proved with her spilling the beans about the Betty/Archie kiss to Jughead), but her life is a living hell. I liked that Toni actually seemed to want Cheryl to open up, and talk about why she is the way she is. 
• What was with Jughead and talking about the Vughead kiss helping future Bughead...seriously, him dropping all of those ship names (and then later with the B & V) was some messy ass dialogue. Jughead is the last character on this show who I would expect would be dropping ship names like a Tumblr teeny bopper. 
• The Veronica/Jughead kiss was super unnecessary. Just saying...
• We got a Jughead/Archie friendship scene! Gosh, I missed them. More scenes of them just bro-ing out, please?
• The Kevin/Josie movie theatre scene was cute as hell. Sure, their parents are having an affair and it sucks, but at least they have each other!
• Have to admit I legit laughed out loud at Jughead saying: "Is that their response to everything? Can't they ever just have a conversation?" upon hearing Veronica and Archie getting down, because YES. It's funny because it's true! 
• Dark Betty...bleh. But at least it wasn't for too long...
• Most of this episode had me thinking "Drammmmmaaaaaaaaa" a la Derek from Happy Endings
• Can Chic just go away? Like, seriously, can he just not be a thing anymore?

Overall though, I really liked this episode, and thought it was a great return from Olympic break. Moved many storylines along, had great couple moments for Bughead and Varchie, actually featured Cheryl/Kevin/Josie, had some laughs. Sure, there was some sloppy dialogue, but I'm going to overlook that because it's entertaining as hell!

Edited March 8, 2018 by AdorkableSars

[WhosThatGirl]

Seriously it was a really great episode. The dialogue was kind of

clunky. And aside from dark Betty, I was entertained which I haven’t been for this show in a long time. I’m glad all the couple drama seems over. And I loved all the friendship scenes. I love Cheryl and Toni. The only thing I didn’t get was the robbery scene and I’m still not into Chic at all. I mean.. I could literally write almost all his scenes and every word that comes out of his mouth, it’s that predictable.

[Dobian]

In next week's episode, Hiram sends Varchie and Bughead on an all expenses-paid cruise for more wild sex while he buys up the rest of Riverdale.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 minute ago, Dobian said:

In next week's episode, Hiram sends Varchie and Bughead on an all expenses-paid cruise for more wild sex while he buys up the rest of Riverdale.

You’re giving them ideas for season three! And no he’s probably going to send them to Mexico and when they return they find out he’s bought all the houses and Riverdale High!

[ybrik]

This episode was a bit odd. With the core four it felt like it was packing too much storylines into it while with the rest of the cast it felt like it was underwritten. As others have pointed out, the whole robbery part felt completely forced. Really a robbery storyline either is a cliffhanger or is the major driving force of a storyline for an episode, it shouldn't be some random part. They had enough to go on with the dealing with Betty/Archie kiss and the divide over Hiram. 

The problem with just throwing this in is that the time used for it could have been used to help flush out the Cheryl/Toni and/or Josie/Kevin storylines. Each of those storylines could have used at least one more scene. 

Cheryl's mom really is the worst. It is interesting that Cheryl is very much a stereotypical bully, in that she is lashing out at others because she is basically being mentally abused in her home life. 

[WhosThatGirl]

The episode was odd pacing but I thought without the robbery scene, everything with the core four was fine to me.

And yes, the other characters were underwritten but they normally are anyways(even if Cheryl, Kevin and Josie are slated as main cast members, I believe the core four are the ones who really are)The core four was what for the most part this episode was set on, so that didn’t bug me.

But the robbery scene made no sense, I agree. I had thought it might all end up being a set up once again to test archies loyalty but then it wasn’t. It didn’t make any sense, except to bring us back to the Black Hood stuff which ew pass. 

Aside from that, it was a good episode. To me anyway. As I said I like that all the relationship drama is gone and pass, I liked the Bughead moments(still don’t get the wig stuff, probably never will). 

Another reason I liked this episode was probably almost no Chic and yeah his scenes annoyed me as I said. The writers really didn’t even try with this story and this character. I really hope he’s off his screens soon. Does any viewer like him? Someone tell me please.

[Snookums]

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Anyways.. seriously what is Chic as a character? Ugh. That opening was creepy as hell.

He's apparently Jason, or at least has his teleporting ability.

While I'm irritated with Chic as a character and Betty/Alice for putting up with him, at least the show gave two good reasons why they do: the most obvious being, of course, that body currently dissolving in quicklime (which, by the by, I don't think Chic knows about, so he may think he's holding an ace that is actually a joker in terms of a body as evidence to pin on Alice) and how he could ruin their lives with that whole mess, but also: Hal.

Hal, despite being a scarier mofo than Chic could ever aspire to, has been absolutely correct about Chic from minute one, and of COURSE that's why Alice is rebelling against his perfectly logical stance; he's messed her up so bad that she's basically "anything that Hal wants? I do the opposite" no matter how short sighted, ridiculous or dangerous it is, and Betty's Type A Sleuth personality kicks in to just push everything under the (wrapped around a body) rug.  So I will give the show that. 

[Betty, by the way, had some wonderful acting choices this episode: when she's leaving with Jug right after Chic's little whisper threat audition reel for whatever slasher flick he's constantly trying out for? How the focus is on Jug's reaction, but behind him she's running to the door--she cannot wait to bail on that scene. And later at the cabin when she and Jug hear the squeaking bedsprings and he's all "can't they ever have a conversation?" and she does that adorable "paws up" shrug.]

Anyway, this whole weekend of secrets and lies revealed! thing went a lot better than I thought it would, discounting the idea that everybody's parents signed off on four teenagers hanging out in Sexy Cabin in the first place, margaritas and all, but who are we even kidding on that front anymore?  My only disappointment was that Jug and Archie didn't kiss--c'mon, guys!  Veronica's oblivious rich girl act--Archie hauling the luggage, flirting with the locals--did a good job showing the sense of security that money can bring and how someone can remain oblivious to the resentment it can brew. 

I really didn't have a problem plot wise with the break in--the episode's title gave a pretty broad hint, and thank you, writers, for NOT going the "molest the girls" route. The implied threat was enough and that was what they did. And I didn't mind it being a callback to Archie's trauma either; that made actual sense! Now, can we please poop or get off the pot with the Black Hood thing? Drop it or get on with the reveal of the real guy already.

While Josie and Kevin's story felt pretty shoehorned in at first, it smoothed out over the course of the show and while it felt a little After School Special-ly at least it was there. I was really afraid that Kevin, fresh from hearing Josie's bombshell, was going to pass the hurt on to Moose and Midge, but he showed admirable maturity on that front. 

Speaking of bombshells! Cheryl really must be tired of winning the "worst parent in the universe" trophy every week. Man, Penelope is a piece of work. I'd really like some backstory on her--I get that this isn't The Warped Life And Damaged Loves Of Penelope Blossom, although I would watch the shit out of that spinoff--but this woman is so fucked up she makes Chic look like a poster child for mental health. Why the hell does she hate Cheryl so damn much?

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Each of those storylines could have used at least one more scene. 

I always get the feeling that every single episode is at least twice as long when first written and then they panic and go in chopping left and right while still trying to keep all the plot plates spinning. Makes for some herky-jerky pacing.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah.. I’ve given up on the parents parenting on this show at all anymore, so not really being all “these parents let their teenagers go to a cabin unsupervised.. whatever” but like most teen shows, this inevitably happens so I stop dwelling.

Tge robbery scene was too much. And yeah Chic just sucks. Also I personally don’t think the actor is that great. Maybe he’s better in other stuff, but this eh. It’s just too much.

As I said, as much as the core four tried to resolve the issues that they brought up in the cabin, for me it feels like it’s more of an issue Veronica is going to have in the future. I mean sure, yes, Archie is in love with Veronica but I think when  or if push comes to Shove, and the fact that the show has him have “moral compass” Epiphanys here and there, I think that may be the case of him having to choose a different side. and like someone else said, Archie, Betty, and Jughead have known each other since they were kids. Veronica, only half a year, and I think she’s going to be the one who has to make a harder choice at some point. 

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, Sonoma said:

Okay I loved this. I'm beyond spoiled regarding this season so I will not comment very much about the episode and how it set up the upcoming episodes but it still delivered better than I thought it would. I laughed, I squeed, and I was touched by almost every character in this episode. Even Jughead and Betty's talk about her kiss was Archie was as sweet as it was brief and then turned into a hilarious moment with Veronica and Archie squeaking. 

Roberto, you are forgiven for the first half of this season.

Yeah.. this was a good episode. As I said I enjoyed it a lot and it had been a while since I enjoyed this show. Sure as I said some things were clunky, but as someone who was about to quit the show, this is the episode that stopped me. I hope the episodes keep up like his one did

[Mr. Sparkle]

7 hours ago, AdorkableSars said:

• Can Chic just go away? Like, seriously, can he just not be a thing anymore?

I'll vote for this. 

[PeekaBoo]

Gotta make this quick...

Loved the episode, glad it's done and dealt with... I think it was anticlimactic with all the kiss hype and all that...  A bit disappointed that both jughead and veronica went in for the kiss but whatever, it's over and the cour fore "seem" stronger than ever... I don't know, it was a bit weird in a sense that it looked like they were making fun of themselves, calling out on how varchie/bughead deal with things, veronica making that crude comment on betty's gear lol... the damn squeaky bed sounds, eesh!! I thought it was weird but happy they sorted things out but they so vulnerable, they have eachother's backs but it won't take much for them to implode really... IT was nice to seem them having a near "normal" teen moment.... I have to accept they are bringing out the wig for whatever reason and from now on I don't think i'll bother to be bothered whenever it shows up, it's there, deal with it! lol! And Jughead drinking?!?! Hmmm, that surprised me.... I like that it happened now because had something similar happened in the first half, I think jug would have exploded and gone on some bad serpent trip...

The whole robbery thing seems iffy! Loved that they brought out ARchie's memori with the blackhood, the guy still isn't over it! For a minute when jughead and rchie looked at each other I thought they would go redcircle/serpent on their asses...

And Veronica needs to wake up and see what her parents are really up to! "But I don't know anything", gah, so sick and tired of hearing this....

You know, the cour fore all have tie-ins with murders/near murders now?!?!...

And I demand a Jarchie kiss! Now THAT is what i'm waiting for! XD

I feel realy sorry for Cheryl, she's got it bad and damn! I hope Toni will help her out and that she'll find some support somewhere! I'm glad she opened up to Toni and now I can understand more the horrible relationship she has with her mother! What a horrible woman....

Since this episode was called "Sexy" several times, I was so afraid that when moose+midge+kevin were eating together that they would end up together or something?!!? Felt bad for midge for not knowing anything...

The whole Keller/McCoy thing was underwritten, it deserved a lot more time, glad that kevin and Josie are together in this! Hopefully they can stay friends!

And chic.... well, the dude needs to go...

I still haven't forgiven RAS for what he's done in the first half but he's getting there! The end of the season sounds promising!! :D :D

[wingster55]

Jughead you condescending ass. Always making derogatory comments about Archie's intelligence. 

[Jeddah]

I liked the conversation about how Betty is Archie’s best friend, his best friend’s girlfriend, and his girlfriend’s best friend. Mostly because that is an accurate description of how they are all entangled.

I love the book Love, Simon is based on and really want to see the movie, but even I felt like they were beating me over the head with that tie-in. Sheesh. Now I’m sort of hoping it’s reciprocal and all the Love, Simon characters talk about Riverdale.

[WhosThatGirl]

16 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

I liked the conversation about how Betty is Archie’s best friend, his best friend’s girlfriend, and his girlfriend’s best friend. Mostly because that is an accurate description of how they are all entangled.

I love the book Love, Simon is based on and really want to see the movie, but even I felt like they were beating me over the head with that tie-in. Sheesh. Now I’m sort of hoping it’s reciprocal and all the Love, Simon characters talk about Riverdale.

I think it was a tie in cross promotion because Greg Berlenti directed the movie and he works on riverdale but yeah..I hate it when shows have to do tie ins like this.

Yeah. I liked everything at the cabin and I had been worried about this episode but they seem to put all the kiss stuff to rest. I think Bughead is fine, as a couple now and stronger because they do actually talk now about what’s going on. Varchie I’m unsure about? They talk but they don’t really talk. Veronica has expressed many times she wants Archie nowhere near her fathers business, but yet he still is. She said in the episode she wants it to be her and Archie, but yet the last scene Archie had was Archie getting in deeper with Hiram. I don’t think this points good for them.

And as I said in an earlier post, it seems like Veronica is going to be the one who has to make a hard choice at some point. While she and Betty may be best friends and Veronica and Archie may be in love As has been noted, it’s only been about half of a year that they’ve know her. Archie, Betty, and Jughead have known each other since childhood, and when push comes to shove, if Hiram is really doing things that are (and I hate using this word because this isn’t that type of show but I can’t think of a better one) evil and hurtful to people they care about, they will chose the other side. I’m unsure about what Veronica would do then. Yes, she cares about Betty and Archie (and I’m sure Jughead by proxy because of what he means to Betty and Archie, can we develop that friendship more, btw? That would be nice) but I don’t know where Veronica would stand if something were to hurt the other three and it was her family she had to choose between.

[CletusMusashi]

1. Welcome back, my ridiculous guilty pleasure! I've been trying to fill Wednesday nights with "Survivor," but that show is nothing but two-dimnsional pretty people making completely random decisions, as opposed to... well, at least on "Riverdale," it's fun.

2. Camille Mendez does not put on a swimsuit nearly often enough. Can she just join the school diving team or something?

3. I understand Toni finding Cheryl attractive, but I do not understand her actually being drawn to her personality in any way. Since the Southsiders arrived, Cheryl had done absolutely nothing except act like a mean-spirited entitled rich bitch. Even if her gaydar was pinging... so what? here should be friendlier options. This is not a school where homosexuality taboos run nearly as deep as in real life. See #4.

4. Veronica makes out with sexy school nerd Betty on her first day in town, and somehow there are still kids from that school who haven't heard about it? Really?

5. Kevin complaining about how hard it is to live up to his fathers' ideals as kind of.. what? Kid, yor dad whored around with one person who he knew and honestly liked.. You have whored around with random strangers in the woods. Repeatedly. 

6. Jughead does not how to quit, does he? You'd rather fight a losing batle against Hiram Lodge than settle for a reasonble amount of victory?

7. Doesn't "romcom" stand for "romantic comedy?' So, were all the tickets for the "romcom" sold out? And they had to settle for the "sappy Oscar bait that makes everyone cry?" Yeesh. That movie couldn't have been less fun if it had an Archie Andrews soundtrack.

[Snookums]

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 I understand Toni finding Cheryl attractive, but I do not understand her actually being drawn to her personality in any way. Since the Southsiders arrived, Cheryl had done absolutely nothing except act like a mean-spirited entitled rich bitch. 

I really hate how they have Toni be the mouthpiece/magical Negro for every single white character on Riverdale: she's a great character in her own right and deserves a storyline where she's not comforting people who are making totally idiotic or hurtful decisions, many of which affect her directly! If she and Cheryl do end up dating it better be an actual relationship, not one where she keeps mentoring Cheryl into acting like a human being the way she had to with Jughead.

[SourK]

Oh, Riverdale. I didn't want to watch Love, Simon before and I don't want to watch it now. The whole town converging on the theatre to watch it on opening night didn't change my mind.

Here's the thing I liked about the robbery: I liked how it was set up in the scene where they were in town. After Veronica shares that her parents aren't with them at the cabin, there's a really nice shot where she walks out of the store and you can see a) she's really overdressed for the situation and stands out like a sore thumb and b) all of the guys smoking outside the store turn to look at her with hard, hostile expressions. The camera doesn't really linger on them; it just allows them to be in the background while she's talking. Having the working class white guys from the sticks show up to rob everyone after is literally the plot of a whole bunch of horror movies, and that's a cliche, but they set it up well.

13 hours ago, SeanC said:

The possibility of Cheryl and Toni being a thing was one of those ideas that was raised in fan speculation, etc. pretty much before the season started, and seemed to be broadly where things were headed based on the early interviews about Cheryl getting a love interest, etc., so it's a bit strange in one sense how long it took to get that plot going.  But now that it's here, the early signs are promising.

Cheryl and Toni is a ship I can finally get on board with, even if I don't understand why Tonni's so determined to make it happen. I also would have been fine with Cheryl and Josie, but whatever.

[WhosThatGirl]

10 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

1. Welcome back, my ridiculous guilty pleasure! I've been trying to fill Wednesday nights with "Survivor," but that show is nothing but two-dimnsional pretty people making completely random decisions, as opposed to... well, at least on "Riverdale," it's fun.

2. Camille Mendez does not put on a swimsuit nearly often enough. Can she just join the school diving team or something?

3. I understand Toni finding Cheryl attractive, but I do not understand her actually being drawn to her personality in any way. Since the Southsiders arrived, Cheryl had done absolutely nothing except act like a mean-spirited entitled rich bitch. Even if her gaydar was pinging... so what? here should be friendlier options. This is not a school where homosexuality taboos run nearly as deep as in real life. See #4.

4. Veronica makes out with sexy school nerd Betty on her first day in town, and somehow there are still kids from that school who haven't heard about it? Really?

5. Kevin complaining about how hard it is to live up to his fathers' ideals as kind of.. what? Kid, yor dad whored around with one person who he knew and honestly liked.. You have whored around with random strangers in the woods. Repeatedly. 

6. Jughead does not how to quit, does he? You'd rather fight a losing batle against Hiram Lodge than settle for a reasonble amount of victory?

7. Doesn't "romcom" stand for "romantic comedy?' So, were all the tickets for the "romcom" sold out? And they had to settle for the "sappy Oscar bait that makes everyone cry?" Yeesh. That movie couldn't have been less fun if it had an Archie Andrews soundtrack.

Yeah.. I sort of feel bad for Kevin for

finding out the way he did but yeah when Kevin’s storyline this season was him running around to find hookups in the woods.. yeah, not a fan.

I think jughead has every right to be weary, Hiram isn’t trust worthy. He’s waiting for the other shoe to drop and yes right, it is a bribe to shut down the article. And then Hiram bought the newspaper so he can control what is written in it. That’s a thing to be weary about. 

Also I still hated the robbery. Would have rather seen the core four work out their fight and not a distraction scene. To me it didn’t add anything to the stories we didn’t already know or feel. Archie will continue to go deeper in with Hiram(we kind of were well aware of that), the core four all have different romantic relationships and sorry Bughead does beat Varchie, but instead we got a random robbery scene. For reasons.

Edited March 8, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[CletusMusashi]

Of course Hiram wants to control the newspaper, but so does anybody else who buys the newspaper.  If it's for sale, somebody with skeletons in their closet is going to buy it. Millionaire philanthropists aren't sinking their money into Riverdale's twentieth century paper press. I'd be more OK with Jug's idealism if he weren't so happy to excuse crimes committed by his father, by his friends, or by his fellow serpents that he only met five minutes ago. 

And besides, Hiram didn't buy the internet. He didn't even buy papers in neighboring towns. What, did Jugs really think Alice Cooper and Sheriff Keller were going to bust up the mafia?

[WhosThatGirl]

Well I just think Jughead being weary of Hiram and not wanting to take this win isn’t understandable. He makes sense. Hiram isn’t a good guy. He has every right to be weary of the trailer park being bought by him.

[Snookums]

He's certainly correct to be on his guard, and yes, buying the newspaper was a pretty obvious move--if Archie wasn't dating Veronica he'd see it too. They're doing a good job of making Jughead realize he has to choose between his relationships: either he's with his friends at school or he's with his dad and Serpent-family-of-two-months, but he can't be with both.

What I'm wondering is how much longer it's going to take for everybody else in town to realize what the Lodges are up to--they are hardly being subtle about buying every single square foot of Riverdale while binding the people who live there to them financially--even Archie brought up his dad's medical bills, and Veronica reminded the viewing audience that he's working for her dad's company. What with Betty's parents now working for Hiram, and Jug's dad being obligated to him for the house he lives in, and Josie's mother having to step down from the mayor's office, it's getting to the point where Jug is looking less ridiculous for pointing stuff out and the rest of the citizenry more so for going "It's fine! Everything's fine! All Hail The Lodges Who Are Fine!"

[WhosThatGirl]

7 minutes ago, Snookums said:

He's certainly correct to be on his guard, and yes, buying the newspaper was a pretty obvious move--if Archie wasn't dating Veronica he'd see it too. They're doing a good job of making Jughead realize he has to choose between his relationships: either he's with his friends at school or he's with his dad and Serpent-family-of-two-months, but he can't be with both.

What I'm wondering is how much longer it's going to take for everybody else in town to realize what the Lodges are up to--they are hardly being subtle about buying every single square foot of Riverdale while binding the people who live there to them financially--even Archie brought up his dad's medical bills, and Veronica reminded the viewing audience that he's working for her dad's company. What with Betty's parents now working for Hiram, and Jug's dad being obligated to him for the house he lives in, and Josie's mother having to step down from the mayor's office, it's getting to the point where Jug is looking less ridiculous for pointing stuff out and the rest of the citizenry more so for going "It's fine! Everything's fine! All Hail The Lodges Who Are Fine!"

Yeah, it is odd that no one else is really worried about it. 

As I said, I’m more curious to what Veronica is going to do. I feel like all of the core four is going to have a realization about the Lodges. Obviously Jughead is already as you said, but I feel like eventually Betty and Archie will and Veronica is going to and for all of them it’ll be interesting to see. The histories between the three as a kids versus Veronica might be play a part but I’m interested to see where the show goes with it.

And I would worry about it affecting the romantic relationships but the only one worried about Would be Veronica and Archie. I think Betty and Jughead are pretty solid at this point. I think Veronica and Archie is more difficult because Archie is becoming more and more intertwined with the actual business. Also I’m not entirely clear what angle he’s playing. 

Spoiler

The previews for next week indicate he’s playing both sides. The little clip where Jughead said something about no one being safe of what archie said is true and then Veronica saying if Hiram found out what Archie did, he would be hurt or something.

[Snookums]

Oh, by the by, is that a different actress playing Midge? She seems different to me but I don't remember enough about her to say for sure.

[WhosThatGirl]

16 minutes ago, Snookums said:

Oh, by the by, is that a different actress playing Midge? She seems different to me but I don't remember enough about her to say for sure.

I was wondering that too. I feel like the hair was different for sure, but again the last time she was on our screens was a while ago. Also I said about the Midge Moose Kevin thing, it would have been way more interesting if Midge had known about the past moose/Kevin hook up, instead of the stereotypical Moose says she knows but then the truth is she doesn’t. 

[AdorkableSars]

14 hours ago, ybrik said:

This episode was a bit odd. With the core four it felt like it was packing too much storylines into it while with the rest of the cast it felt like it was underwritten. As others have pointed out, the whole robbery part felt completely forced. Really a robbery storyline either is a cliffhanger or is the major driving force of a storyline for an episode, it shouldn't be some random part. They had enough to go on with the dealing with Betty/Archie kiss and the divide over Hiram. 

The problem with just throwing this in is that the time used for it could have been used to help flush out the Cheryl/Toni and/or Josie/Kevin storylines. Each of those storylines could have used at least one more scene. 

 

Gah. Yes. I think I blocked out the robbery part because it was so unnecessary. I would've much rather seen another scene or two with Cheryl/Toni or Josie/Kevin. 

6 hours ago, PeekaBoo said:

And I demand a Jarchie kiss! Now THAT is what i'm waiting for! XD

I feel realy sorry for Cheryl, she's got it bad and damn! I hope Toni will help her out and that she'll find some support somewhere! I'm glad she opened up to Toni and now I can understand more the horrible relationship she has with her mother! What a horrible woman....

14 hours ago, Snookums said:

Anyway, this whole weekend of secrets and lies revealed! thing went a lot better than I thought it would, discounting the idea that everybody's parents signed off on four teenagers hanging out in Sexy Cabin in the first place, margaritas and all, but who are we even kidding on that front anymore?  My only disappointment was that Jug and Archie didn't kiss--c'mon, guys!  Veronica's oblivious rich girl act--Archie hauling the luggage, flirting with the locals--did a good job showing the sense of security that money can bring and how someone can remain oblivious to the resentment it can brew. 

Speaking of bombshells! Cheryl really must be tired of winning the "worst parent in the universe" trophy every week. Man, Penelope is a piece of work. I'd really like some backstory on her--I get that this isn't The Warped Life And Damaged Loves Of Penelope Blossom, although I would watch the shit out of that spinoff--but this woman is so fucked up she makes Chic look like a poster child for mental health. Why the hell does she hate Cheryl so damn much?

I too demand a Jarchie kiss!! 

This episode made my heart break for Cheryl. Her mother is an abusive piece of crap. I also want to know why she hates Cheryl so much. I think for real someone needs to get Child Protective Services involved. 

The AV Club Review for this episode was pretty good, I thought. It outlined why this episode was kind of ridiculous, yet also kind of great. My favorite point is how Madelaine Petsch is actually a good actress who deserves so much more than what this show is giving. It also points out one of my biggest groaners of this episode, which would be Jughead dropping "Vughead/Bughead" into his hot tub speech:

Jughead uttering the terms “Bughead” and “Vughead.” In one sentence. In correct context. In an episode where Veronica has already said “Bughead.” In fact, there’s nothing wrong with a character like Veronica busting out ship names, as she, Kevin, and Cheryl are the only characters who can pull it off. But for Jughead to do so is for Riverdale to say it officially doesn’t care if characters behave like themselves or not, as long as it gets a reaction from a specific subset of fans. Fans who don’t care about plot or characterization as long as their ships have cute moments.

Jughead is the absolute last character who would or should utter ship names. It was jarring, and I wonder how Cole was able to say those lines without bursting into a fit of hysterical laughter. I myself, with my glass of wine on my couch, had to pause because I was giggling. Although I guess this shows that this is a show that caters to teens, and not people who are of age to drink wine like me...

This article is also an interesting one about the episode: 'Riverdale' Finally Gives Its Great Supporting Cast Something To Do. The tagline reads "It Seems if the character isn't Archie, Betty, Jughead, or Veronica, you are lucky to hear them speak." And honestly: hear, hear! Is there a subtle way I can tweet this to the writers/producers? Because fucking YES to all of this! Seeing Josie, Kevin and Cheryl last night and actually giving them good storylines was a HUGE highlight in this episode. And the storylines being set up for them are interesting, and deserve focus going forward. This has been one my biggest gripes this season. You CAN have a large cast and still utilize them all. 

I may be being a little nitpicky, but overall, I was pleased with this episode. I made a conscious decision to not expect great dialogue or realism from this show, and it made last night's episode a lot more enjoyable for me! I'm just in it for the drama and shipping, yo. And the brief moments of humour we get, which are also great.

[WhosThatGirl]

15 minutes ago, AdorkableSars said:

Gah. Yes. I think I blocked out the robbery part because it was so unnecessary. I would've much rather seen another scene or two with Cheryl/Toni or Josie/Kevin. 

I too demand a Jarchie kiss!! 

This episode made my heart break for Cheryl. Her mother is an abusive piece of crap. I also want to know why she hates Cheryl so much. I think for real someone needs to get Child Protective Services involved. 

The AV Club Review for this episode was pretty good, I thought. It outlined why this episode was kind of ridiculous, yet also kind of great. My favorite point is how Madelaine Petsch is actually a good actress who deserves so much more than what this show is giving. It also points out one of my biggest groaners of this episode, which would be Jughead dropping "Vughead/Bughead" into his hot tub speech:

Jughead uttering the terms “Bughead” and “Vughead.” In one sentence. In correct context. In an episode where Veronica has already said “Bughead.” In fact, there’s nothing wrong with a character like Veronica busting out ship names, as she, Kevin, and Cheryl are the only characters who can pull it off. But for Jughead to do so is for Riverdale to say it officially doesn’t care if characters behave like themselves or not, as long as it gets a reaction from a specific subset of fans. Fans who don’t care about plot or characterization as long as their ships have cute moments.

Jughead is the absolute last character who would or should utter ship names. It was jarring, and I wonder how Cole was able to say those lines without bursting into a fit of hysterical laughter. I myself, with my glass of wine on my couch, had to pause because I was giggling. Although I guess this shows that this is a show that caters to teens, and not people who are of age to drink wine like me...

This article is also an interesting one about the episode: 'Riverdale' Finally Gives Its Great Supporting Cast Something To Do. The tagline reads "It Seems if the character isn't Archie, Betty, Jughead, or Veronica, you are lucky to hear them speak." And honestly: hear, hear! Is there a subtle way I can tweet this to the writers/producers? Because fucking YES to all of this! Seeing Josie, Kevin and Cheryl last night and actually giving them good storylines was a HUGE highlight in this episode. And the storylines being set up for them are interesting, and deserve focus going forward. This has been one my biggest gripes this season. You CAN have a large cast and still utilize them all. 

I may be being a little nitpicky, but overall, I was pleased with this episode. I made a conscious decision to not expect great dialogue or realism from this show, and it made last night's episode a lot more enjoyable for me! I'm just in it for the drama and shipping, yo. And the brief moments of humour we get, which are also great.

Same. I’ve stopped trying to think it’ll be like last season ever again because it won’t be and last night was fun, probably the most fun I’ve thought an episode was in a while.

But also I have to note that the reaso. It may have been fun was hardly any gang stuff(except for the trailer park being bought) and hardly any Chic Cooper. I mean the gang can sort of be fun sometimes, but Chic legit brings the show down. That opening scene was so creepy and didn’t fit the tone with the rest of the episode. Not to me anyway. And the ending scene, totally different vibes from what the rest of the episode was.

[Glade]

I wish this show had stuck with 13 episodes like the first season; the show would be much tighter as opposed to branching off into filler.  veronica's stupid and obnoxious, condescending remarks about masculinity and testosterone every episode are getting really old.  I resent that Chik is being continuously presented as an outsider, a villain, instead of taking a realistic, sympathetic approach to the kind of struggles that an abused former foster kid/orphan who came of age into homelessness and being trafficked sexually would face.  It's cheap and just outlines the privileged of the rest of the cast as they look down on him but think they're so progressive because they have a lot of one-liners about "toxic masculinity" and other subjects they don't actually know anything about. So, I think I'll just pretend this was the season finale.

[thuganomics85]

I swear, when they showed the car driving up to the... err, Lodge's Lodge (thanks, Ronnie!), it sounded the theme from Blade Runner was playing.  I couldn't make heads or tails over that.  Is Archie a replicant, now?

Anyway, this episode had the feeling of the writers getting a wee bit drunk in the writers' room, and throwing a whole bunch of crazy shit together and actually filming it.  Not a complaint though, because it was actually kind of awesome.  Jughead finding out about Archie and Betty's kiss, so Veronica decides that the only logical resolution is for her and Jughead to make-out in front of Archie and Betty, in order to level the playing field.  Archie being the worst spy possible.  Dark Betty.  Jughead's obvious probing questions about the Lodges, but it somehow goes over Veronica's head (she might be spending too much time with Archie...)  Random burglary.  Archie angrily doing push-ups.  Squeaky bed sex (I guess Hiram had to sell the good beds for his bail?)  A brief Riverdale: Civil War, which sadly ended before it began.  Archie angrily chopping wood.  Good times!

Meanwhile, the side characters actually had stuff to do.  Josie tells Kevin about their parents, causes some drama, but it seems like everyone's willing to talk now.  Kevin himself thought he was being propositioned by Moose and Midge, but that ends up not happening.  Oh, and then there is Cheryl coming out to Tori, which is so going to lead somewhere since that was speculated every since it was known that Madelaine Petsch and Vanessa Morgan were BFFs in real life.  And it was all thanks to Love, Simon, which is apparently a film that is so awesome that it makes everyone reveal their true selves.  And apparently everyone in Riverdale saw it.  Well, I didn't see Reggie.  Maybe he was off watching Tomb Raider instead.

Aww, Archie's getting his snark on with his remark about wondering if Betty and Jughead were going to break-up for the 12th time over the kiss.  I'm so proud of him!

Chic's still being a big old creep.

I approve of bringing back Veronica's black swimsuit for a moment.  You know how to make that work, Camila Mendes!

Edited March 9, 2018 by thuganomics85

[Ruby Red]

Another episode after a hiatus for a month while I have been feeling anxious for this episode. It really was not as bad as I thought it would be. And as I wrote this, I realize I actually do have many thoughts... Much rambling about this episode... This show is a guilty pleasure that I should not take seriously but I cannot help but nitpick.

My general feelings towards this episode are not as positive as I have seen many people be who enjoyed it. I did not dislike the episode, but I did not love it either, like the past two episodes it was one of the better episodes of season 2 so far, but it was not an episode that was better written or I enjoyed more than anything in season 1. There is a bit of a meh feeling for me though.

1) I like Cheryl, Toni, Kevin and Josie having some screentime. I just wish they would do this all much sooner, also give other characters some storylines and I hope they don't drop them and disappear for the next few episodes. But yes to Cheryl having some backstory, and it was a sad one and relatable to many people out there. Penelope is the worst parent in so many ways, it does not surprise me she is a homophobic parent and I fear the trouble she may cause in the future. As we finally have started with the anticipated storyline of Cheryl and Toni, and I really don't think they are queerbaiting this time, it was a little odd how it started off because the last time they interacted Cheryl pretty much called the Southside Serpents trash. But I can accept the idea that maybe Toni sees something in Cheryl, some vulnerability. Though, as Toni is a good friend of Jughead, it did strike me as a little odd that she was not bothered at all by how Cheryl dropped that kiss bomb on Jughead. But it’s Riverdale, so. I think was nice for Cheryl to have someone who was listening to her, someone who was willing to see through the mean girl facade, Toni could be that person for her. She really does need someone by her side! I did think it was odd how Cheryl would want to be invited to the cabin with the V/A/B/J since she has been mean to them most of the time and they have not been nice to her either with the exception of Archie, but okay... She was feeling lonely?

The Kevin/Moose/Midge scenes were awkward. I wonder if they will do more with this storyline though, they always leave us hanging with something for one episode and to never bring it up again until like 10 episodes later. And Josie does not really have much of a storyline, it is so little.

2) That Jughead/Veronica kiss was totally unnecessary, but somewhere I did feel like there was a realism there to Jughead acting like a teenage boy. While he can move past that B/A kiss there is a part of him that still feels some hurt over it. I think most of all he was feeling a little petty, he just wanted to piss Archie off and I think that was obvious with his, "It's just a kiss. Right?" though he said it in a playful and jokey way, there was some hint of real feelings there. And how he also said later how he liked to see the look on Archie's face. It was such a teenage boy thing to do, I do think he was mostly joking about kissing Veronica because he looked a little freaked out when Veronica stood up and approached him but then he went along with it.  Not because he found an excuse to kiss Veronica as some people seem to claim? I don’t really think so, but the ambiguity of it does annoy me. It was still really unnecessary for that to happen! And oh hey that parallel to the Betty/Veronica kiss when Veronica told Jughead she should trust him as she said the same thing when she kissed Betty in 1x01! Was that meant to be a sign that this kiss really was pointless and baiting? Did the show also shade itself by Jughead saying he could not understand why Betty and Veronica kissed even after Betty explained it? Because yeah, nobody did, lol. Good for pointing that one out. Also, Jughead once again being a typical teenage boy by actually looking intrigued by the idea of the B/V kiss, haha. But ouch, when Jughead implied that Archie was dumb! He is not the brightest tool in the shed, but still. You don't say that to your best friend. Jughead and Archie did have a nice talk though.

The whole thing did feel a little out-of-character for both Veronica and Jughead. It was a little strange for them to just go out and kiss to make things "even". I mean, Jughead, you already kissed and had a groping session with Toni, you and Betty are already even! That logic he used was questionable, but I get the impression he just wanted to get a rise out of Archie. As for Veronica, not sure why she'd think it is a good idea. Also major cringe at Jughead using "Bughead" and "Vughead" and in one sentence even. It is so OOC for him to use ship names, but also, who does that? That kiss looked awkward either way, and it was meant to be awkward.

3) Betty and Jughead! I also think I will write something about Betty and Veronica's friendship on this point, But let's first start with the B/J bits. I know many Bughead shippers seemed to have been pleased with this episode, but I was not as pleased as I should be. While Cole and Lili's natural chemistry shows, with all the little things like the touches and Jughead being protective of Betty and also wary of Chic and telling her to be careful, and they made the scene with Betty and Jug where she wears the wig really come off as playful and flirty in a way that felt natural as they were just happy and in love and having fun. It was not “Dark Betty”, it was just a dominant and playful side of Betty who was going into a healthy sexual exploitation with her boyfriend who she loves and who lovers her and she trusts. . I still really wish we had a scene of her taking off that wig or him telling her she does not need that wig. I like smug flirty!Jughead and it was nice to see that side of him again, but I have to add it feels more like Cole than Jughead whenever this happens. It is a part of the 4 different personalities Jughead seems to have.

Yes, I have determined that Jughead has 4 personalities in the way the writers have been writing him:

• Loner emo boy!Jughead (He has maybe returned in a different way in the past four episodes?)
• Bad boy Seprent!Jughead (A snake must have poisoned him as of 2x10! Please, don't come back!)
• Soft!Juggie (Has returned!!! Mostly appears around Betty)
• Smug flirty Cole!Jughead (a rare one) 

Sometimes you can connect all these sides of him and there is a good blend, but more often those different sides of Jughead are hard to connect and it almost feels like he is a different character in every episode and you just play a game of, "Which Jughead can we expect this episode?".  Just, writers, try and be more consistent with his characterization... But perhaps they have been trying to make a good blend of things in the past three episodes.

Anyway, onto the reveal of the B/A kiss. Really random and odd that Cheryl would call Jughead and even have his phone number. So, while I do love the character growth on Jughead, the difference from 1x10 when he clearly still had insecurities that Betty would one day have enough of him as soon as Archie changed his mind and returned  her feelings to 2x12 when he said he’d be apologizing for pushing her away “for the rest of my life” and now in 2x14 when Jughead realizes with everything they have gone through, he can forgive her. He trusts her and he has a confidence that he knows how much she loves him and only wants him. That the kiss with Archie was a mistake and did not mean anything on a romantic level.

But I’m still missing things. I wish Betty and Jughead had  a longer discussion about it. I wish Betty’s motives had been clear as to why she kissed Archie and be honest. I wish she had apologized to Veronica about kissing Archie, but it was all swept under the rug. Betty and Veronica did not talk, and it was also weird how they were casual about the whole Chuck thing when Betty talked about the outfit. And as I mentioned the ambiguity of Jeronica earlier, I also feel a ambiguity with Barchie as well and it does bother me a little. Betty and Archie still have not talked to each other about it, they still have not said why they kissed and Jughead and Veronica don’t even ask how they feel about it. It feels like there is still some open end there for potential of future drama…. It just all feels a little off. It’s not supposed to have meant anything, but I have my doubts.

I don’t like Betty and Veronica slut-shaming each other, I get there are teen girls who do argue like this but I don’t think they have to perpetuate that idea. The argument between Jughead, Betty, Veronica and Archie was amusing to watch but at the same time it made me wonder how they are even close friends when they hardly interact and only when the plot requires them to. I did understood Betty and Jughead’s points and they were not wrong to be suspicious of Hiram, but they did not have to get upset at Veronica for it. The wrong Lodge to be mad at. Obviously Veronica still tries to find reasons how her father is still a good person but when asked what he ever did that was good, she couldn’t think of anything. Poor V.

i did like how in some parts the show was throwing shade at their own writing, but as said in an article, not sure if it always made sense for their characters to say those things! There were some funny moments like B/J hearing V/A getting it on in the other room and then V/A hearing B/J getting it on.

I just want consistency and some good plots and more character-driven moments, writers!

Edited March 8, 2018 by Ruby Red

[WhosThatGirl]

57 minutes ago, Ruby Red said:

Another episode after a hiatus for a month while I have been feeling anxious for this episode. It really was not as bad as I thought it would be. And as I wrote this, I realize I actually do have many thoughts... Much rambling about this episode... This show is a guilty pleasure that I should not take seriously but I cannot help but nitpick.

My general feelings towards this episode are not as positive as I have seen many people be who enjoyed it. I did not dislike the episode, but I did not love it either, like the past two episodes it was one of the better episodes of season 2 so far, but it was not an episode that was better written or I enjoyed more than anything in season 1. There is a bit of a meh feeling for me though.

1) I like Cheryl, Toni, Kevin and Josie having some screentime. I just wish they would do this all much sooner, also give other characters some storylines and I hope they don't drop them and disappear for the next few episodes. But yes to Cheryl having some backstory, and it was a sad one and relatable to many people out there. Penelope is the worst parent in so many ways, it does not surprise me she is a homophobic parent and I fear the trouble she may cause in the future. As we finally have started with the anticipated storyline of Cheryl and Toni, and I really don't think they are queerbaiting this time, it was a little odd how it started off because the last time they interacted Cheryl pretty much called the Southside Serpents trash. But I can accept the idea that maybe Toni sees something in Cheryl, some vulnerability. Though, as Toni is a good friend of Jughead, it did strike me as a little odd that she was not bothered at all by how Cheryl dropped that kiss bomb on Jughead. But it’s Riverdale, so. I think was nice for Cheryl to have someone who was listening to her, someone who was willing to see through the mean girl facade, Toni could be that person for her. She really does need someone by her side! I did think it was odd how Cheryl would want to be invited to the cabin with the V/A/B/J since she has been mean to them most of the time and they have not been nice to her either with the exception of Archie, but okay... She was feeling lonely?

The Kevin/Moose/Midge scenes were awkward. I wonder if they will do more with this storyline though, they always leave us hanging with something for one episode and to never bring it up again until like 10 episodes later. And Josie does not really have much of a storyline, it is so little.

2) That Jughead/Veronica kiss was totally unnecessary, but somewhere I did feel like there was a realism there to Jughead acting like a teenage boy. While he can move past that B/A kiss there is a part of him that still feels some hurt over it. I think most of all he was feeling a little petty, he just wanted to piss Archie off and I think that was obvious with his, "It's just a kiss. Right?" though he said it in a playful and jokey way, there was some hint of real feelings there. And how he also said later how he liked to see the look on Archie's face. It was such a teenage boy thing to do, I do think he was mostly joking about kissing Veronica because he looked a little freaked out when Veronica stood up and approached him but then he went along with it.  Not because he found an excuse to kiss Veronica as some people seem to claim? I don’t really think so, but the ambiguity of it does annoy me. It was still really unnecessary for that to happen! And oh hey that parallel to the Betty/Veronica kiss when Veronica told Jughead she should trust him as she said the same thing when she kissed Betty in 1x01! Was that meant to be a sign that this kiss really was pointless and baiting? Did the show also shade itself by Jughead saying he could not understand why Betty and Veronica kissed even after Betty explained it? Because yeah, nobody did, lol. Good for pointing that one out. Also, Jughead once again being a typical teenage boy by actually looking intrigued by the idea of the B/V kiss, haha. But ouch, when Jughead implied that Archie was dumb! He is not the brightest tool in the shed, but still. You don't say that to your best friend. Jughead and Archie did have a nice talk though.

The whole thing did feel a little out-of-character for both Veronica and Jughead. It was a little strange for them to just go out and kiss to make things "even". I mean, Jughead, you already kissed and had a groping session with Toni, you and Betty are already even! That logic he used was questionable, but I get the impression he just wanted to get a rise out of Archie. As for Veronica, not sure why she'd think it is a good idea. Also major cringe at Jughead using "Bughead" and "Vughead" and in one sentence even. It is so OOC for him to use ship names, but also, who does that? That kiss looked awkward either way, and it was meant to be awkward.

3) Betty and Jughead! I also think I will write something about Betty and Veronica's friendship on this point, But let's first start with the B/J bits. I know many Bughead shippers seemed to have been pleased with this episode, but I was not as pleased as I should be. While Cole and Lili's natural chemistry shows, with all the little things like the touches and Jughead being protective of Betty and also wary of Chic and telling her to be careful, and they made the scene with Betty and Jug where she wears the wig really come off as playful and flirty in a way that felt natural as they were just happy and in love and having fun. It was not “Dark Betty”, it was just a dominant and playful side of Betty who was going into a healthy sexual exploitation with her boyfriend who she loves and who lovers her and she trusts. . I still really wish we had a scene of her taking off that wig or him telling her she does not need that wig. I like smug flirty!Jughead and it was nice to see that side of him again, but I have to add it feels more like Cole than Jughead whenever this happens. It is a part of the 4 different personalities Jughead seems to have.

Yes, I have determined that Jughead has 4 personalities in the way the writers have been writing him:

• Loner emo boy!Jughead (He has maybe returned in a different way in the past four episodes?)
• Bad boy Seprent!Jughead (A snake must have poisoned him as of 2x10! Please, don't come back!)
• Soft!Juggie (Has returned!!! Mostly appears around Betty)
• Smug flirty Cole!Jughead (a rare one) 

Sometimes you can connect all these sides of him and there is a good blend, but more often those different sides of Jughead are hard to connect and it almost feels like he is a different character in every episode and you just play a game of, "Which Jughead can we expect this episode?".  Just, writers, try and be more consistent with his characterization... But perhaps they have been trying to make a good blend of things in the past three episodes.

Anyway, onto the reveal of the B/A kiss. Really random and odd that Cheryl would call Jughead and even have his phone number. So, while I do love the character growth on Jughead, the difference from 1x10 when he clearly still had insecurities that Betty would one day have enough of him as soon as Archie changed his mind and returned  her feelings to 2x12 when he said he’d be apologizing for pushing her away “for the rest of my life” and now in 2x14 when Jughead realizes with everything they have gone through, he can forgive her. He trusts her and he has a confidence that he knows how much she loves him and only wants him. That the kiss with Archie was a mistake and did not mean anything on a romantic level.

But I’m still missing things. I wish Betty and Jughead had  a longer discussion about it. I wish Betty’s motives had been clear as to why she kissed Archie and be honest. I wish she had apologized to Veronica about kissing Archie, but it was all swept under the rug. Betty and Veronica did not talk, and it was also weird how they were casual about the whole Chuck thing when Betty talked about the outfit. And as I mentioned the ambiguity of Jeronica earlier, I also feel a ambiguity with Barchie as well and it does bother me a little. Betty and Archie still have not talked to each other about it, they still have not said why they kissed and Jughead and Veronica don’t even ask how they feel about it. It feels like there is still some open end there for potential of future drama…. It just all feels a little off. It’s not supposed to have meant anything, but I have my doubts.

I don’t like Betty and Veronica slut-shaming each other, I get there are teen girls who do argue like this but I don’t think they have to perpetuate that idea. The argument between Jughead, Betty, Veronica and Archie was amusing to watch but at the same time it made me wonder how they are even close friends when they hardly interact and only when the plot requires them to. I did understood Betty and Jughead’s points and they were not wrong to be suspicious of Hiram, but they did not have to get upset at Veronica for it. The wrong Lodge to be mad at. Obviously Veronica still tries to find reasons how her father is still a good person but when asked what he ever did that was good, she couldn’t think of anything. Poor V.

i did like how in some parts the show was throwing shade at their own writing, but as said in an article, not sure if it always made sense for their characters to say those things! There were some funny moments like B/J hearing V/A getting it on in the other room and then V/A hearing B/J getting it on.

I just want consistency and some good plots and more character-driven moments, writers!

I don’t think we’re ever getting consistency back. I have to just enjoy the show for what it is.

I am hopefully was wishful thinking that the kiss and ship drama is all over with this episode. If the writers are smart, then it is.

But yeah. This episode was good because all the stuff that imho has been dragging the season down were absent: there was hardly any Chic, like no gang story. If the robbery hadn’t of happened this episode would have been perfect.

[sweetandsour]

Strangely, I feel like I'm starting to "get" Archie a bit more after this episode, or at least have more of a personal interpretation of him (which may differ from anyone else's), whereas normally he's just there to be moved around for plot purposes.  For me, the callback to his paralysis to the Black Hood having a gun to his head was more than just showing that it still affects him, but he ultimately took off chasing the robber like he's grown and is able to move past the fear.  He started out infiltrating Hiram's circle/operations for other reasons, but I think now he truly likes being a part of something that makes him feel more capable/stronger and where he has a "mentor" of sorts who doesn't espouse the prescriptive ideals that his dad does and lets him indulge the darker parts of himself.  (Without putting on a black wig and web-camming, ughhhhh.)  He also likes (consciously or subconsciously?...) the peripheral support that comes from being in league with Hiram, like when Andre showed up to take care of the robber.  I don't think Archie condones murder or is rationalizing it in his head, but normally you'd think he'd be like oh, that's too far, I gotta get out.  But he likes having someone who will do the things that he can't or won't do himself - even though obviously the Lodges take that too far - vs. when the Black Hood shot his father, he was just one boy, alone.  Next week's previews make it sound like Archie isn't loyal to Hiram, but I assume that's a misdirect.

LOL that Kevin isn't interested in Fangs bc his nickname is Fangs, but was totally willing to have anonymous make-out sessions in the dark woods while the Black Hood was killing people.

I wish the Love, Simon product placement happened last year, so one of the girls watching could say to her seatmate, "This movie is totally going to make me cry, but I don't have to worry because of my waterproof Cover Girl mascara," as she whips it out of her purse and the camera zooms in on it.

Edited March 9, 2018 by sweetandsour
silly typo

[WhosThatGirl]

The cover girl product placement is something I never thought I would miss this season but I do.

[tennisgurl]

This show is made to be drank with a glass (or two) of red wine. It allows the crazy to become more delightful, and the plot holes to sort of fade into the background. 

I enjoyed the core four hanging out and getting weird, although the robbery scene seemed a little bit random. You know, Jughead probably isn't wrong about Hiram buying up the south side for nefarious purposes, but he really does tend to sound ridiculous when he starts going on about how evil he is all the time. Its like "Hiram bought some eggs at the store yesterday! He used them for evil, I know it!" because he just likes to be pissed off and self riotous. Like when the rest of the south side kids seemed cool with going to the north side school, but Jughead was going on and on about how much it sucks. No wonder even his girlfriend was getting annoyed. 

"Some of us like to do things other than hold hands and cry watching serial killer documentaries". Snerk. Show Veronica is a bit nicer than comic Veronica (not that shes awful or anything, but she is pretty spoiled and selfish a lot of the time, even if her hearts in the right place), but I love her snark, or when she is cheerfully throwing cash around and making Archie carry her massive lugger around. 

Cheryl's mom really is the worst. No wonder Cheryl is a total mess. Its kind of amazing that she and Jason actually seem/ seemed capable of decency with those wackos as parents. 

Chick is so freaking crappy, he might as well have "psycho killer" tattooed on his head. Yeash. I also really liked the call back to Archie's trauma involving the black hood, and I think that helps explain his mobster internship thing. He wants to feel strong and in control, and heres Hiram, a powerful man who can protect his family, and lives by a code of loyalty and honor, who can seemingly make him strong and powerful. 

Edited March 9, 2018 by tennisgurl

[catrice2]

Chic is exactly what I expected from the moment they announced the actor...a waste of time.  

 

I don't even know what to say about what this show has so QUICKLY become. 

[tennisgurl]

3 hours ago, sweetandsour said:

He started out infiltrating Hiram's circle/operations for other reasons, but I think now he truly likes being a part of something that makes him feel more capable/stronger and where he has a "mentor" of sorts who doesn't espouse the prescriptive ideals that his dad does and lets him indulge the darker parts of himself.  (Without putting on a black wig and web-camming, ughhhhh.)  He also likes (consciously or subconsciously?...) t

I think this is a really interesting comparison to make. As much as Betty and Archie are the most outwardly wholesome of the gang, they both have a dark side, and they both seem to be drawn to it.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I think this is a really interesting comparison to make. As much as Betty and Archie are the most outwardly wholesome of the gang, they both have a dark side, and they both seem to be drawn to it.

 I think all four of the core four are dark. And they seem to enjoy it. Jughead wasn’t that dark in season 1(which I have to keep saying in the shows timeline was only a few months ago) Hell, Jughead was scalping a woman’s skin on a Christmas! The only one who we haven’t seen do something terribly dark is Veronica. At least not along the lines of mob type stuff, web gaming with wigs and scalping skin. Sure she’s trying to be all not knowing about her fathers mob business dealings when she more than likely knows more, but other than that, she’s the most light of the core four. all she really is spoiled sometimes and lying by omission.

And yeah Like I said Jughead wasn’t as wholesome as Betty and Archie even in season 1, but seriously since this season he took an abrupt turn. 

But I think all core four are pretty dark and they all seem drawn to it in different ways. I kind of hope we see a bit of NYC Veronica, I feel like she was pretty dark, from what was alluded from things she has said and when Nick St clair was first in town and he brought up her past and the drugs. I’m curious about that.

Edited March 9, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[Snookums]

Sweetandsour, I think you've got a really good point about Archie and how desperate he was to have an idealized grownup in his life--not that Fred isn't a good dad, but Archie's simply too aware of their precarious finances (and that was before Fred was shot in front of him) to be able to relax and trust that things will be taken care of. Then along comes Hiram and Hermione and it's like they're Evil Santas, with bags full of gifts and reassurances--granted, they get a little tangled with all those strings attached to them, but the allure of security is too great. I think that even if he and Veronica weren't dating he'd still have been suckered in.

[Affogato]

13 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I don’t think we’re ever getting consistency back. I have to just enjoy the show for what it is.

I am hopefully was wishful thinking that the kiss and ship drama is all over with this episode. If the writers are smart, then it is.

But yeah. This episode was good because all the stuff that imho has been dragging the season down were absent: there was hardly any Chic, like no gang story. If the robbery hadn’t of happened this episode would have been perfect.

Darn plot elements! 

[WhosThatGirl]

2 hours ago, Affogato said:

Darn plot elements! 

The gang and Chic aren’t good plot elements. Although the gang can have his moments, when it isn’t being wrapped up in Native American baxstories that make no sense. Chic however is a lost cause. It’s predictable and dumb at this point and totally drags down the episodes to me. I don’t find HD as an actor that great (at least not in this role).

This episode was good because we had none of those moments. The Chic scene I. The beginning didn’t fit any of the tone of this episode. I’m over it, but I was over it when I saw previews of Chic. I know exactly what was going to happen in the show with that character. 

Edited March 9, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Chic however is a lost cause. It’s predictable and dumb at this point and totally drags down the episodes to me.

I am curious what their intent is with Chic. Right now he's just this random creeper who leers a lot. I assume at some point he is going to put Betty in danger or possibly Alice and Betty et al have to save her. But it is all taking way too long and he hasn't done anything but lurk since he got here. Oh, and kill that one guy (possibly, still not convinced Alice didn't do it). But I still don't get what his purpose is.

At least with the gang I kind of get the purpose. They helped show another side of Jug, gave Jug somewhere he felt he fit in, exposed his darkest side and shoved some new kids into the school . It also has allowed them to explore Jug and FPs relationship a bit more. But Chic hasn't really shown anything with Betty and Alice we haven't already seen. He hasn't really done much to push Betty further towards the Dark Side! Just the stupid cam girl thing. IDK he just seems kind of pointless at the moment.

[WhosThatGirl]

24 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

I am curious what their intent is with Chic. Right now he's just this random creeper who leers a lot. I assume at some point he is going to put Betty in danger or possibly Alice and Betty et al have to save her. But it is all taking way too long and he hasn't done anything but lurk since he got here. Oh, and kill that one guy (possibly, still not convinced Alice didn't do it). But I still don't get what his purpose is.

At least with the gang I kind of get the purpose. They helped show another side of Jug, gave Jug somewhere he felt he fit in, exposed his darkest side and shoved some new kids into the school . It also has allowed them to explore Jug and FPs relationship a bit more. But Chic hasn't really shown anything with Betty and Alice we haven't already seen. He hasn't really done much to push Betty further towards the Dark Side! Just the stupid cam girl thing. IDK he just seems kind of pointless at the moment.

This. And the cam girl stuff is gross. So yeah, another minus there for me. He is pointless and like I said it’s all predictable and everything he does creepily is so predictable. He killed someone and then Alice Betty and the Jones men buried said person and he did nothing and yet.. the only thing he does is now hold it over their heads? I really wish we had never met bettys brother actually.

I would have been more excited if they hadn’t gone the typical route, everything they did with this character is stuff fans are probably writing via fan fiction.

Its times like that when I don’t want to watch live so I can fast forward through his scenes. I don’t know what we as viewers are expected to feel for the character. But again I’m also expecting them to find a way to redeem Chic. And I don’t know. I think that may be what breaks me. I can’t get behind a character who mentored his little sister to get into cam girling to deal with her pain. Sorry. No.

Edited March 9, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[kissedbyarose]

I really do like this show as a guilty pleasure. These campy teen dramas sucker me in with an awesome first season and then I whine and complain about everything after. It never fails. On that note, I have some thoughts (which might just reiterate some earlier ones).

BURN THAT WIG. It's awful and it's wrapped in some awful mashup of mental illness/sex that this show lamely tried to allude to then Betty wears it for sexy times with Jughead. NO.

Jughead is too pretentious to use couple mashup names. I hate to see them myself but to hear a character use them? Just no. No one refers to themselves like this. Cut it out show.

Cheryl and Toni - I appreciate it because I like the characters but it was definitely missing a scene or two just to see how/why Toni made that decision to even talk to someone who basically insulted everyone and everything Toni knows and cares about.

Chic - this wasn't even done well on OTH so I don't expect any better here.

@sweetandsour - I agree with everything said about Archie and his motivations this season have probably made the most sense out of everything this season.

Kevin definitely deserves more screen time based on his storylines and Josie based on the fact that we know so little about her. But with Josie, I feel like the show has NO idea what to do with her and she merely exist just to say "LOOK, RIVERDALE IS DIVERSE!" which...no.

The parents all grew up in Riverdale and went to school together right? It seems odd they don't interact since Hiram is buying all their land.

And finally to weigh in on Archie and Veronica, I think they like each other well enough but I don't think it's a TRUE LOVE OTP which would be refreshing since my main complaint when I watch these shows is the inevitable timeline jump and the characters are still obsessed with their high school exes. I could definitely see Archie and Veronica ending up with different people.