S05.E01: Muse

[2727]

Quote

Past and present collide in Oxford, as the auction of a priceless Faberge Egg gets underway at Lonsdale College.

I'm an unabashed fan, but thought this was a great start. Endeavour chafing at the world as usual. Smart detecting, interesting new cast member, appearances by dry witted DeBryn, continuing character development for our main coppers, and Joan didn't annoy me.

[Pyralis]

I loved Morse and Strange flatsharing and does Morse seem to be spending some of his increased salary on clothes.

Drive-by Lewis ref - the kid Alec Pickman.  His father explains a lot more about him.

[humbleopinion]

Good episode, well scripted...good music...transported back in time...so happy the cast and show is back...

[Popples]

Thrilled it's back, I've missed it so very much.

I wonder how long Morse will be able to take living with Strange. Fancy seems to be a better fit as a flatmate for Strange.

Morse came off a bit like a toddler who was upset at the new baby in the nursery.

Trewlove has completely grown on me, and watching her put Fancy in his place was wonderful. There is the feeling it may be a set up for getting them together.

Glad they cleared it up that it was Joan's old neighbor that called Morse when she went in hospital. The doctor assumed Morse was her husband/boyfriend and I never really gave it much thought until now.

Loved the mention of the Richardson's supermarket.

Shallow note: Loved Win's new haircut.

[Anothermi]

On 2/5/2018 at 7:19 PM, Pyralis said:

I loved Morse and Strange flatsharing and does Morse seem to be spending some of his increased salary on clothes.

Drive-by Lewis ref - the kid Alec Pickman.  His father explains a lot more about him.

Well caught!

I had to search my brain to remember ANY Pickman character (and I just finished watching it! - I'll never be a reliable eye-witness). IMDB showed there were 2 Pickmans - a male and a female - and finally I figured out they were the Art teacher and his wife who lived in the windmill. Alec, then, must have been the grass eating "bastard" kid.

IMDB then told me that a character named "Alec Pickman" showed up in Lewis: Season 4 Episode 4- Falling Darkness (in 2010). Played by Rupert Graves no less.

Still, I don't remember that episode either although I know I watched it.  Up side? Watching re-runs will be as riveting as the first time I guess.

Thanks for pointing these connections out.  I like knowing about them (even if I can't remember them)

[LadyChaos]

Why are Morse and Strange sharing a flat?

[Popples]

Morse's flat got robbed and ransacked at the end of last series, so that's why he needed a new place to live. As for having Strange as a flatmate though? I couldn't tell you; it seems the writer wanted an "Odd Couple" type situation.

[LadyChaos]

13 hours ago, Popples said:

Morse's flat got robbed and ransacked at the end of last series, so that's why he needed a new place to live. As for having Strange as a flatmate though? I couldn't tell you; it seems the writer wanted an "Odd Couple" type situation.

Yeah, but we saw Morse going back to his flat in the same episode, so it doesn't make sense...... the working theory in this house is that he may have given up his lease when he told Bright he was going to transfer to a new unit.  But when he decided to stay, he needed a place to live.  Strange made a passing comment that they were saving money for their own flats....but since they both were living in their own flats previously, this doesn't make sense.

Edited February 26, 2018 by LadyChaos

[humbleopinion]

Rather liked the scenes of Morse deep in contemplation listening to his classical records... but having him irritated with Strange at work and home is a new dynamic....

[Popples]

11 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

Yeah, but we saw Morse going back to his flat in the same episode, so it doesn't make sense...... the working theory in this house is that he may have given up his lease when he told Bright he was going to transfer to a new unit.  But when he decided to stay, he needed a place to live.  Strange made a passing comment that they were saving money for their own flats....but since they both were living in their own flats previously, this doesn't make sense.

I think TPTB just like Morse to move around a lot. He's always in a different flat every calendar year (series 3 and 4 take place in 1967).

[Popples]

This video has a bit of an explanation on why Morse and Strange are flatmates.

[LadyChaos]

Any word on when it airs in the U.S?

[Zella]

On 2/5/2018 at 7:13 PM, 2727 said:

I'm an unabashed fan, but thought this was a great start. Endeavour chafing at the world as usual. Smart detecting, interesting new cast member, appearances by dry witted DeBryn, continuing character development for our main coppers, and Joan didn't annoy me.

Joan did annoy me--I don't like when she's mean to her dad because I adore Fred--but otherwise I thought it was a great episode and a promising start to the season. 

[Dessert]

Loved tonight’s episode and I’m so glad Endeavour is back. Shaun Evans was brilliant. 

Eve Thorne nailed it when she told him, “You've got needs coming off you like a junkie gouging for a spike. But you won't do anything about it.” In his scenes with her or with other women (watching the stripper & later interviewing the wrong Delilah), he seemed ready to climb the walls with desire - almost breaking into a cold sweat. The sexual tension was off the charts. Poor Morse! 

 

I love Fred, too. I think Joan was mad at him because he was right. She screwed up horribly and knows it, so she’s lashing out. She is also right that Fred was overprotective. She needed the freedom to make her own mistakes. They were harsh with each during their confrontation last season. It’s hard to come back from that. They’re very much alike.

[magdalene]

That was a great start to the season.  This show is so good at racking up the tension.  Getting you emotionally invested. And sometimes it flips your emotions on a dime.  I spent the whole episode being afraid of a brutal killer,  only to to totally transfer all my sympathy  onto said brutal killer in the last few minutes.

The female lead in this was so good.  You could feel her hatred and loathing of men  vibrate through the screen.

[jjj]

The red letters in the credits spell out:  ARTEMISIA GENTILESCHI -- this is the artist of the paintings in the book Morse was looking at.  

I also was wondering why Morse was in Strange's flat -- even if he had to move, why not get his own place?  Maybe that will come.

Now, the game of figuring out the scenes that were deleted for the U.S. viewing.  I think they must have entered Eve's flat initially in the full-length version, because she said later "I'm not common, you've seen my place, you know that."  (or something like that).  All we saw was Morse and Thursday going up to a grim-looking door, so I had no idea what she meant until we saw the interior of her flat later.  

Ah, so good to see these characters back again.  And six episodes this series!  The whole episode only took four days, from April 1 to April 4 (when Martin Luther King Jr. was killed).

So, am I right that it was an actual Faberge egg?  And they just were forging the provenance documents to ratchet up the price?  And they waited over 20 years to bring it forward?  If I heard right, they got the egg in exchange for helping some refugees?  That part of the plot was kind of murky to me.  Why not just sell the egg, which was already worth a lot, and not mess with the false provenance.  

2 minutes ago, magdalene said:

That was a great start to the season.  This show is so good at racking up the tension.  Getting you emotionally invested. And sometimes it flips your emotions on a dime.  I spent the whole episode being afraid of a brutal killer,  only to to totally transfer all my sympathy  onto said brutal killer in the last few minutes.

The female lead in this was so good.  You could feel her hatred and loathing of men  vibrate through the screen.

Yes, I was a little concerned for Morse when he was wandering around Eve's flat toward the end -- had to keep reminding myself that there are five more episodes, plus, you know, the whole Morse series to come, so he would survive somehow.  

Edited June 25, 2018 by jjj

[TrininisaScorp]

Yay!  I'm so pleased this is back!  

Morse and Strange being roommates was cute.  A bit odd couple-ish.

I felt pulled back into Morse's world very quickly, and, like always, I worry about him. I think it is just something about the character and Shaun Evans that makes me fret over him.  

The sexual tension was really interesting.  Oh, Morse!  He just loves his suffering. 

[jjj]

Thursday really deserves an apology from Joan -- she is acting like she has been away at a girls school instead of being kept by a married man.  I don't think Thursday knew she had been pregnant, but Morse knew from the doctor at the hospital after the accident.  Joan really does not have the high ground here when it comes to recognizing how precarious the world can be, which is the environment Thursday lives in every day.  I am glad to see Mrs. Thursday doing so much better than last season, when I thought she would need to be hospitalized for her breakdown after Joan disappeared.  

[fauntleroy]

5 hours ago, jjj said:

Why not just sell the egg, which was already worth a lot, and not mess with the false provenance.  

I think they said that without provenance the piece was worthless. By which I take them to mean, worthless to the gang that took it for payment from the refugees.

Great to see this show back. It has been so long, I have to read up on Fancy as thought he was already a character. With all the funny names - Bright, Thursday etc I may have a false memory.

[kitmerlot1213]

I enjoy the crap out of this show and I love having it back :)  Fred Thursday is superb in that he has this believable menacing quality when he's talking to bad guys and threatening them and then we get to see him being emotional about crime victims, especially when he was talking about his time in Vice.  I do think he and Joan have gone through too much together to go back to their "dad to innocent daughter" relationship--and if WInifred has anything to say about it, they'll just have to forge a new one.

I do think Eva Thorne read Morse right--he likes his women to be unattainable so that he can pine for them and never actually have to put himself out there and now it looks like Joan's going to be added to the list.  He could easily start a relationship with her but he won't take the risk--not the risk of talking to Thursday man to man, or telling Joan how he feels.

Now I have a question about the case:  I'm not condoning the rapists' behavior, but if two girls show up for a stag party, and one of them goes off to have sex with the bridegroom, the other men are going to think the other girl is ripe for the pickings.  Shouldn't there have been more girls there to help "entertain" the rest of the men?  Ruth Astor didn't stand a chance against three/four drunken men, although I do like her dedication to her revenge.  I hope Eva gets out of that life and finds some happiness.

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I do think Eva Thorne read Morse right--he likes his women to be unattainable so that he can pine for them and never actually have to put himself out there and now it looks like Joan's going to be added to the list.  He could easily start a relationship with her but he won't take the risk--not the risk of talking to Thursday man to man, or telling Joan how he feels

I thought she was right, too, and that's why he looked so shocked and seemed so angry at her  -- even the part about him preferring to watch seemed right.

[sempervivum]

I seem to end up cooking dinner during this show, so it's entirely possible that I missed this plot point, but were we ever told if there was some reason Ruth went about her revenge in such melodramatic manner? Was she influenced by the book's gruesome illustrations, or was she just supposed to be someone who had been brought up with heavy doses of Old Testament? 

Also, is it really within an average-sized woman's ability to saw off a head? I can see rage getting her through the throat-slitting, maybe, but decapitation would take premeditation (having an appropriate tool) and strength. I'm fairly fit, but I have problems deboning a chicken, much less cutting through a human man's skin, muscle, tendons and bone!

[SusanSunflower]

Show is doing a great job of depicting the conflict wrt old-fashioned 1950's "paternalism" and rapid freedom available to young women in the late 1960's which has been a theme, particularly involving Joan, from the beginning.   I think both Thursday and Morse are terrified about what unknown (even unwitting) things Joan may have done  and are reacting based on their upbringings (20 years apart) about "fallen women" and "reputations". 

We have seen none of Joan's peers weigh in, and it's hard to tell how much of Joan's refusal to be shamed is 1960's defiance (no big deal) wrt new (girls get to have fun too) "norms" versus a refusal to be fenced and have her life defined by her "dirty little secret"   

Public opinion of "Party Girls", which Joan might easily have become after leaving "mistress status" and her abusive ex, likely hadn't shifted (publically) and party girls (considered only slight removed from call-girls (and rent boys).  Participating in stag parties (and "orgies") as nobody's designated girlfriend ) was vaguely seen as "asking for it" after the 3rd drink. 

Morse may not know all that happened to Joan (voluntarily or involuntarily) but thinks she has not crossed the "hardness" line exhibited by the stag party girls he encountered in this case.  Thursday doesn't want to believe she's "another" fallen woman, unlikely of redemption and return to the straight and narrow. 

Thaw's Morse was always vaguely shocked to be disappointed again by women ... finding out the nice woman he was chastely dating was seeing and screwing someone else ...  and he neither despised "working girls" nor did he  see them as victims or fallen-angels.  Evans' Morse is gallant and polite and respectful and so very confused when women dangle themselves at him (as they did with Thaw's Morse).  Knowing they are safe?  Testing his self-control for their amusement?  Angry and resentful that no matter how much he lusts, he really really wouldn't cross that with a (dirty) girl like them? 

Doubtless we will see more of this conflict and I agree it was riveting and Evans showed new colors and admirable depth ... the contrast between Morse's reaction and what can be imagined as that of Fancy or Strange is impressive.  Morse would have happily stayed in Madonna/whore territory except reality intruded ... as we see with his one-true-love Joan (whose future is uncertain). I do wonder if Joan can stick to the straight and narrow or even wants to .... at least long enough to get properly married and taken out of "circulation"... or if she even wants that ....

Edited June 25, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[Dels]

I really enjoyed last night's episode.  I feel like it picked up all the threads from last year's episodes.  I think it rings true that Fred & Joan would still be estranged after all that happened with her ex last season.  As others have said, they are too alike and stubborn to admit they have done anything wrong so this will last a while.  Really, Joan still has to face the fallout from the hostage taking because last season she was really avoiding it.

I felt really awful for Ruth Astor and everything she went through at the hands of the 'Beserkers', I wasn't really sad about any of their deaths.  When Eve was speaking to Morse, she mentioned the convent school girl who tried to make it as an artist but didn't and ended up like her.  I thought she was actually talking about herself but in hindsight it must have been Ruth right?

[SusanSunflower]

I'd forgotten about the bank robbery .... is that still Joan's darkest secret being kept by Morse? 

[jrlr]

What do you mean?  The fact that Joan was a hostage is no secret, is there something else?

[atlantaloves]

Jolly Good, the season just started up again in the US on PBS.....great episode!

[SusanSunflower]

early on, Joan was visiting a nightclub associated with her father's nemesis in organized crime.  I wasn't certain that the bank robbers weren't somehow connected/related and that Morse was concerned that suspicion might fall on Joan because of "friends" her father knew nothing about ... perhaps having inadvertently passed on useful information about the bank that would look bad in the wrong light.  It never came to anything ... as I said, I'd forgotten about it 

[atlantaloves]

I think you are right, that the bank robbers were connected to that club Joan went to. Yep. 

[kassygreene]

If I remember correctly, Joan was duped into providing some sort of inside information (I think she was dating someone in the gang but didn't really know it), and a bank manager was killed, and she blamed herself.  Which may have in turn led to her adopting a life style that was somewhat self-punishing.

Or I'm remembering a tv trope from several other series.

[Rainkatt13]

10 hours ago, fauntleroy said:

It has been so long, I have to read up on Fancy as thought he was already a character. With all the funny names - Bright, Thursday etc I may have a false memory.

I was sure he was a character from the original Morse, but it turns out I'm completely wrong, so I guess we're sharing a similar false memory.

[2727]

Morse calling Eve a "common prostitute" seemed a bit out of character and discourteous for him.

I had to side with Fred on this one:

Strange, about taking Morse in: He'd do the same for me.

Thursday: Would he?

[SusanSunflower]

I wanted to give a shout-out to the actress playing Joan (Sara Vickers) for convincingly maturing from late teens to young womanhood (not good with ages) .... She looked gorgeous and composed and classy in several scenes in Muse ... not a trace of "girl" remains   (Vickers played the female lead in the 3rd season of Shetland (the Scottish not Welch detective story) 

I was so frustrated with the character development of the daughter in The Americans and while watching Muse several times, thought "this, this is how it's done" ... "it's called acting" but also allowing the actor and character to have presence without always doing cartwheels or being defiant or troubled, a metamorphosis with so little "telling" (rather than showing) 

I rather doubt that Joan's objections to getting involved with a cop, particularly one so close to her father have receeded.  Morse is still more big-brother/father-confessor/keeper of confidences.  I think Morse my well vicariously envy and admire Joan's independent spirit and even her intentions to seek out the fun and good life as a townie in Oxford.  My recollection of Morse's upbringing is that it was grim and purposeful.  Joan in contrast is the child of stability and solid middle class comfort (she is ripe to desire more from life than her parents and brother's dutiful existence)

I suspect Thursday unspoken does consider Joan a "fallen woman" (and would think worse of her if he knew what Morse knows) ... but refrains for the sake of his wife and her future relationship with Joan and grandkids and old age, and the rest. 

Morse may be naïve in thinking that Joan's desire to "walk on the wild side" was limited and innocent-enough, not crossing double-yellow lines,  safe-enough, because she's a good person. and it's entirely likely that Joan is young and heedless and even happy to be boldly risk taking  (unable to imagine things turning out as badly as the stag party did for those girls) I fear for both of them. 

Edited June 26, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[chitowngirl]

I have never seen Endeaver, but this looks like a show I would like. Would I be able to follow things if I start with this episode since it’s the beginning of the season?

[Anothermi]

It doesn't require knowledge of the past to enjoy watching it. That just helps getting full value, and you might find yourself searching out the earlier series.

I would recommend searching out the previous seasons first. This is a prequel to a British Series based on the books of Colin Dexter and starring John Thaw (RIP). That series (as they are called in Britain) started in the late 1980s. 

There are tie-ins to that show, but not ones that would require watching IT first. However, this series does create plot lines and episodes that make more sense if you can remember what has happened to the characters in previous episodes and seasons.

That said, it just means you will miss out on the nuances of character development, but there are lots of posters here who might help fill in those blanks. Some posters haven't watched the Morse series and some didn't even like it, but they are enjoying this series.

[jjj]

50 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

I have never seen Endeaver, but this looks like a show I would like. Would I be able to follow things if I start with this episode since it’s the beginning of the season?

There are two main layers to the show: (1) the crime of the week, which generally requires no background knowledge; and (2) the multi-year relationships that go back across the past four  seasons/series , and forward to the "Inspector Morse" series of the 1980s, which is this character in his final decade.  I think you can enjoy it as a "crime of the week" show; but it would take watching the first four seasons of "Endeavour" to understand how all these characters have grown together and grown apart over the 1960s.  (And if you ever watch "Inspector Morse", you will appreciate where some of these characters end up in relation to one another.)  

29 minutes ago, Anothermi said:

It doesn't require knowledge of the past to enjoy watching it. That just helps getting full value, and you might find yourself searching out the earlier series.

I would recommend searching out the previous seasons first. This is a prequel to a British Series based on the books of Colin Dexter and starring John Thaw (RIP). That series (as they are called in Britain) started in the late 1980s. 

There are tie-ins to that show, but not ones that would require watching IT first. However, this series does create plot lines and episodes that make more sense if you can remember what has happened to the characters in previous episodes and seasons.

That said, it just means you will miss out on the nuances of character development, but there are lots of posters here who might help fill in those blanks. Some posters haven't watched the Morse series and some didn't even like it, but they are enjoying this series.

[sugarbaker design]

16 hours ago, fauntleroy said:

 

Great to see this show back. It has been so long, I have to read up on Fancy as thought he was already a character. With all the funny names - Bright, Thursday etc I may have a false memory.

Bur the ones with funny, and by funny I mean ironic, names always wind up in charge.  Strange was Morse's superior, Bright is Endeavour's, and Innocent was Lewis's.

[Dessert]

2 hours ago, jjj said:

There are two main layers to the show: (1) the crime of the week, which generally requires no background knowledge; and (2) the multi-year relationships that go back across the past four  seasons/series , and forward to the "Inspector Morse" series of the 1980s, which is this character in his final decade.  I think you can enjoy it as a "crime of the week" show; but it would take watching the first four seasons of "Endeavour" to understand how all these characters have grown together and grown apart over the 1960s.  (And if you ever watch "Inspector Morse", you will appreciate where some of these characters end up in relation to one another.)  

I agree. Each episode deals with a contained mystery of the week, but the series is trying to solve the mystery of Morse - what about young Endeavour’s life and character destined him to become old man Morse. Some people think it’s soapy when the show focuses on his personal life, but I disagree. I think it’s illuminating.

[2727]

3 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

I have never seen Endeaver, but this looks like a show I would like. Would I be able to follow things if I start with this episode since it’s the beginning of the season?

As others have said, it's easy enough to jump in.

I'm biased because Morse's character and personal journey are the heart of the show for me, so of course I'd recommend starting at the beginning with the TV movie. The previous seasons are only 4 episodes, if that helps. The Endeavour wiki article hits the highlights of Morse's history season by season for a quick catch-up.

Have fun!

[kassygreene]

All of the following applies to being in the U.S.: if you have Amazon Prime, seasons 1 through 4 are available; you can watch season 5 by purchase or by subscribing to PBS through Amazon, and you can purchase the pilot.

If you are a subscriber directly to PBS above the magic $ number (which I don''t remember what that is anymore), all of Endeavour, including the pilot, is available at PBS.org.  And by all, I include all of season 5, which dropped last Sunday.  I expect to have season 5 done by Saturday.

[attica]

14 hours ago, 2727 said:

Morse calling Eve a "common prostitute" seemed a bit out of character and discourteous for him.

I agree it was discourteous; I don't agree it was out of character. Endeavor is a smug, judgy prat, imo. I never watched the old Morse series, so I don't know if this is a thing that gets worked out of his character as he ages, but it's consistent with how the prequel has been depicting him, or how Evans is playing him.

But I have Fred Thursday to rely on! "I'll have your cobblers for key fobs!" Heeeeeee.

[Dessert]

Morse is a snob about some things, but I don’t think he’s particularly judgmental towards unmarried women who have sex or towards gay people. He tends to be harder on people who are prudish about such things. When he gets angry with a woman over sex, it’s usually because she is trying to use sex to manipulate him or hurt someone else. The reporter who stole his notebook and the married, rich woman who tried to seduce him while he was on the job (otherwise known as sexual harassment) and had forced her daughter to get an abortion are examples.

With Eve Thorn, I think he lashed out partly from sexual frustration, but I also think he was playing her. It was an interrogation and he suspected her of being the killer (I still think she was complicit.) He knew how dangerous she was and was trying to get a rise out of her - hoping she would slip up.

I love Thursday, but Morse is absolutely right about his violence and abuse of suspects & witnesses.

[SusanSunflower]

Actually, I thought it was his in-her-face "don't flatter yourself" rejection of any tale of woe or an innocent wronged and rather reflected some of his ambivalence wrt Joan.  [Did Joan go on dates that involved one more drink back at the flat and a bit of money left on the bureau when the man had slipped away to go to work?}  Back in the old days, women often earned such a pittance they could justify such generosity much as aspiring actors and models paid the rent by acting as escorts or arm candy to powerful men and women. Prostitution not "required" but it paid well. 

Morse is a prig in boring ways (spelling and punctuation) but also in better ways, like curbing vulgar sexist and probably racist slang and behaviors in the station (or at least in his presence).  He was educated and they weren't but there were some standards of decency and professionalism to be maintained (much as he disapproves of Thursday's tendency towards threatening and physically hurting / beating suspects. 

According to various wiki fan pages, he was born in 1938 and so missed "the sixties" as an active anything-goes participant (in part because of his spartan and unhappy upbringing .... "freedom" continued to look too much like licentiousness or recklessness, and so often was too similar to the excesses privileged classes to pretend it was new or "happening", much less liberating.  Morse distrusts women and men, pretty much equally if in different ways  ... and regrets the persistent loneliness this wariness has bred. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[Dessert]

I don’t get the impression that Morse judged Joan or considered her a fallen woman. I think he has worried about her, and with good reason. Some of the men she has become involved with have been dangerous; one was a criminal and, as it turned out, a murderer, and one was a married man who got her pregnant, didn’t leave his wife when Joan got pregnant, and beat her. Scum both. I think Morse knew how dangerous the wrong man could be to a woman - particularly at that time. I’m sure he’s paternalistic, too.

[SusanSunflower]

I think Morse is conservative enough to have serious "girls gone wild" anxiety that includes things Joan might have done wittingly or "innocently" enough (as I said before) ... like accepting money left on the bureau ... I suspect her friends have done so and yet -- certainly -- do not consider themselves prostitutes, certainly not "common prostitutes"  

In my 20's in Los Angeles around 1970, I was asked by clique of very pretty co-workers if I would be interested in "dating" the visiting friends of one woman's boyfriend (he was Saudi or Egyptian) ... these friends visited often and had a ton of money, went to the best restaurants and clubs and, of course, no sex would be expected (yeah right).  They wanted "nice girls" (well spoken, good manners) and someone they could talk to (not airheads or models; romance was possible).   While I was vaguely flattered, I quickly declined it was one of those "just no" things.   (I was also approached twice by a friend of my mother's about marrying someone to get them a green card -- again, I just said no)   "I'm not that kind of girl" 

For many men, "Women's liberation" was unfathomable, particularly if they believed fundamentally that women needed to be protected (by men)  When women went off and did "wild things" -- particularly with bad outcomes -- there was a lot of frustration,... hasn't changed much 50 years later, I guess, ... see College Rape Culture/Scandal. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[Dessert]

I know this is beginning to get a little off topic, but it does relate to His interaction with the prostitute in this episode.

Morse hasn’t treated any of the women he’s slept with like they were sluts (yet.) I’m thinking of Monica and the old friend from his Oxford days. He seemed to think sex was certainly an expected part of the relationships. Those romances failed for other reasons. He has also treated Truelove with respect (Frankly, the squad’s acceptance of her is probably unrealistic.) When he tried to warn Joan off Mr. Bingo, he just said “you can do better” or words to that effect - not “Be a good girl”.

I think he is old-fashioned and romanticizes a kind of family life he never had and that the Thursday’s used to embody. He is also very aware of class, being from a working class background himself. He was rejected by his fiance’s family partly for that reason and never really fit in with some of the Oxford crowd. Joan is a working class townie and seemed to be trying to marry up with a Ray from Leamington. He knows how girls like her can be treated.

The last thing I will say is that seeing so much criminal behavior probably colors his thinking about the perils women face. His world is full of crime, abuse, and bad behavior.

To bring it back to Eve Thorn, he did think she had hammered a spike into a man’s ear and gouged out another’s eyes. That would tend to make one a little disrespectful.

[JudyObscure]

8 hours ago, SusanSunflower said:

For many men, "Women's liberation" was unfathomable, particularly if they believed fundamentally that women needed to be protected (by men)

That's how I see it with both Endeavor and Thursday.  They're the good side of the patriarchy, the part who reveres women and wants to protect them from all the predators out there, including pimps.  When the women themselves seem complicit in their own exploitation it's bewildering to them.

As for the "common prostitute," I was actually on his side.  I roll my eyes when strippers call themselves dancers or when prostitutes call themselves escorts.  If you're trading sex for cash you're a prostitute and the only difference between a  street walker with twenty clients a day and a high priced call girl is usually just how good looking she happens to be.  It's the women themselves who are being judgmental of their peers and claiming a superiority to the ones who earn less money.  I'm showing my own age but I dislike the new terms like "sex worker," that try to normalize a dangerous business that almost always uses women in a demeaning way for men's pleasure and men's profit.  With the large majority of prostitutes being young women who were sexually abused  by family members, what's needed is not glorified names for what they do, but raising their self esteem so that they leave a business that tells them their bodies are all they have to offer to the world. 

[atlantaloves]

To Chittown: You can start right now and watch Endeavor, believe me, you will love it, and will want to start from the beginning.  Although I have to say, this first episode for the new season is one of my least favorites. But, of course, I still loved it.  I am a huge Inspector Morse fan, but really really really LOVE LOVE LOVE Endeavor!  

[SusanSunflower]

yes, agree.  Endeavor is a very solid program/series with well-formed intelligent character and very well written and intelligent plots .... in addition to excellent acting, production values and the rest.  It stands with Morse (the original series) and most of the Christie adaptations (some of which were imho pretty shallow and "off character") AND is all the more remarkable because the stories (unlike Morse and Christie) are original and intricate without getting too clever/precious.   Each season has been a new adventure for me, so I'm eager to see what they do "this time out" ... Talented bunch! 

[spaceghostess]

I somehow missed most of the Morse series back in the '80s & '90s (although I liked the ones I caught), but Inspector Lewis was my jam from minute one. Endeavour is moodier--and I love it so much that I squee whenever the previews for a new series pop up on my PBS stream.

Agree with those who were okay with Joan in this first episode. I was really frustrated with her by the end of last season/series, but she seems on more solid ground now. The fact that Win is no longer suffering as a result of her daughter's disappearing act is also helping me be more patient with whatever Joan's current deal is.

All Endeavour episodes grab me, albeit some more than others. This wasn't one of my favorites, but I did get a kick out of the new Thames Valley Constabulary because I happen to live in the Thames Valley myself . . . in southeastern Connecticut. The city of New London is at the mouth of our Thames, which flows into the Long Island Sound. But the river here is a mere 15 miles long. To me, "TVC" stands for Thames Valley Communications, our janky local cable operator. 

I also really enjoyed the Artemesia Gentileschi references, since I just happen to be reading an excellent historical novel about her. Oh, and I want Alan Cumming to introduce all the shows I watch because he is THE BEST. Diana Rigg was also great back in the day. Remember when Masterpiece Theater had an intro? I even remember watching Alastair Cooke when I was very small. Laura Linney did only a couple of intros for the revamp before she became a disembodied voice.

Edited June 30, 2018 by spaceghostess
Expediency.