S04.E13: True Colors

[Trini]

Quote

AMUNET MAKES A BIG PLAY - After hearing that Amunet (guest star Katee Sackhoff) has struck a deal to buy all of the metahumans in Iron Heights, Barry must decide if he should expose his powers in order to save his cellmates. After a visit from an old friend, Ralph (guest star Hartley Sawyer) is reminded of his shady past and wonders if he's really a changed man.

Tara Nicole Weyr directed the episode written by Jonathan Butler & Gabriel Garza

[Jediknight]

DeVoe took over Becky.  That monster.  Her arc could have been excellent with wanting to do good, and possibly joining Team Flash.  Then that monster DeVoe took control of her.  Yeah, it does help that she's the most adorable person on this show.

DeVoe Cosbying his wife?  Uncomfortable.  At least she should turn against him.

[phoenics]

Now this is more like it.  Finally the story moves.

Marlize is having to deal with some BS - now she's got to love her husband in a woman's body?  LOL Devoe - you are asking for too much.  And Dominic was actually killed after being body snatched... wow... that's just awful... And then he just took the powers of all of those metas.  I figured he was working some Strucker X-Men 2 nonsense of making a super meta version of himself.  So is that the enlightenment or is it something else.

Cool - finally Dibny gets more of his powers.  That was awesome.

And I actually enjoyed KF's pep talk.  Miracle.

Oh and major bonus points for Barry using his MIND to escape - that was AWESOME!!!  Finally we got smart Barry back.

I guess I should have known all the metas and Wolfe would die - since they knew he was the Flash.

Edited February 7, 2018 by phoenics

[Primal Slayer]

It was an ok episode. No one (not here) better be complaining about Iris taking over the show when this was a whole lotta Ralph! I get that he can stretch and now change shape but does that also mean he can change his color? That seemed like a stretch (no pun intended)

DeVoe was a really interesting and fun villain the first half of the season but since they started having him body snatch these metas he has lost every ounce of charm that he had. And now he is drugging his wife to love him without remorse? Boring much?

Im kind of sad that TF couldn't find any mistake in DeVoe's plan in him having Barry take the fall for his murder that they had to have Ralph put his new skills to use to get Barry out. 

[cambridgeguy]

Barry's not OK with just busting out of prison but he is OK with Ralph impersonating Devoe to help get him cleared of all charges?  Sure, technically Devoe is still alive but it's still on the morally questionable side.  However, with all of that being said it's about damn time he got out.  The show is called the Flash so your eponymous hero shouldn't be spending his time moping in a prison cell, especially since this was supposed to be a turn away from the darkness of season 3.

[Whodunnit]

Ralph's new powers is what TV Tropes would call an Author's Savings Throw; when a new power or ability is created solely to fix a mess.

[bettername2come]

Grant Gustin looks stupidly attractive when held prisoner and pissed off and just a little defiant. And I love when Barry's smart, so I won't even question him building some kind of crazy acid from prison materials because it was cool. This was a good episode for Barry. Kind, decent, protective, smart. All the things I like about him. His best episode all season. I thought it was weird when the metas all turn on him because he was The Flash. I honestly thought they knew that whole time. I mean, Wolfe and Amunet said he was a speedster and "the piece de resistance" right in front of them. Who did they think he was?

I really liked Hazard this ep. The show's done a good job making me feel sorry for the metas taken over by Devoe. She was so sweet. And now Devoe's being a terrible, creepy husband on top of everything. That was your one redeeming quality! I kind of think the wife's going to switch sides and work with Team Flash. I almost thought she would this episode when it was clear she wasn't comfortable with Devoe hearing her thoughts. I thought she might be a surprise witness.

Can Ralph shapeshift like that in the comic? Because that seemed like a stretch. I'll see myself out.

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, cambridgeguy said:

Barry's not OK with just busting out of prison but he is OK with Ralph impersonating Devoe to help get him cleared of all charges?  Sure, technically Devoe is still alive but it's still on the morally questionable side.  However, with all of that being said it's about damn time he got out.  The show is called the Flash so your eponymous hero shouldn't be spending his time moping in a prison cell, especially since this was supposed to be a turn away from the darkness of season 3.

There is a big difference between breaking out of prison and essentially being a wanted criminal and getting released from prison and being a free man.

[RandomWatcher]

DeVoe pulled a Doctor Who

[Whodunnit]

Also, the judge has apparently been living under a rock for the past five years.

On the upside, Barry used his sciency smarts to almost escape! 

[WindofChange]

How are people not disgusted by the racist undertones of this storyline? Devoe takes over a black man's body (a man he procured from an an auction), then discards it once he had no use for the body and then takes over a white woman's body but had to take the life force out of another black man, an asian woman, and a couple of white men in the process... I know Devoe is evil and that this is what evil men do, but the Flash is doing it whilst being completely tone deaf to the social implications of this all. It's gross.

Not only that but this episode also had a white man whose superpower is to stretch himself, somehow figured out how to use those powers to morph his features so he made himself into a black guy...??

I'm just baffled by this show and even more baffled that a progressive show like Black Lightning follows this.

This episode was called True Colors... I guess they really did show their true colors in this episode.

Edited February 7, 2018 by WindofChange

[Rachel RSL]

This episode should have been titled "Finally!"  As in: Finally Team Flash remembers they have brains! Finally Cecile points out that a gazillion metas live in Central City! Finally this stupid prison plot is over so the story can move along! Finally Ralph becomes one of my favourite characters! Wait...how did that last one happen?

Seriously though, Ralph is so much better when they write him as an actual human being. And the plan to appear as DeVoe, alive and well, was brilliant. Although, I'm a bit confused about why he almost let the judge close the case. Like, did he just want to make a dramatic entrance? Did he get distracted by a pretty girl outside the courtroom? Did he miss his bus? What was that all about? Not that I really care, I'm just glad we can all move on now and hopefully never have to witness Cecile's mad lawyering skillz again.

Plus, Katee Sackhoff! Definitely one of the better episodes of the season. Or the past 3 seasons, really.

[Whodunnit]

Even by loosely defined comic book science, Ralf's new powers stretches credulity.

[Proteus]

I'm heartbroken over Becky. I loved her. :( I hope she can still be saved.

This was one of the best episodes of the season.

I love the Ralph/KF scene.

I missed Tom C.

[tennisgurl]

The meta with the tech powers pointed out one of the biggest flaws in the DeVoes frame up plan: Why would a CSI leave his DNA all over the scene of a crime where he just killed a guy in cold blood? This guy could have given Barry a better legal defense than Cecil! 

Anyway, I liked the episode a lot, and I am thrilled that Barry is finally out of prison, AND that it looks like my Bus Meta theory might be true! DeVoe wants these people with these powers for some specific reason, and he wants to absorb them/their bodies/their powers for some reason. Which is extra nasty considering the Bus Metas are probably the least evil meta groups we have seen so far! Even the ones here who were straight up bad guys showed a bit more of a human side this week (even if they were about to kill Barry when they found out who he was) and poor Becky was so close to being a good guy for real! I hope she can still be saved, but I doubt it. And it looks like Ralph will be on his hit list sooner rather than later. 

Good episode in general for Barry. He used his smarts, he was kind and showed empathy for the even the criminals he put away, and I thought him not running away from the prison was smart. Even if Barry left prison, he would still be a fugitive, ending his "normal" life forever, and could even be put back into jail for escaping, which is also a crime. Much better to wait it out, especially as his team decided to grow a few brains this week. 

The plan for Ralph to shape shift into DeVoe was pretty awesome, especially when his wife was just starring in utter shock at him. And Cecil finally points out that weird shit happens all the time here, so why not a super frame up, or a dead guy faking the dead? Also like that the pep talk from Killer Frost ended with him freeing Barry, and not saving the day again. I like Ralph, and I think the writers have found a better mix of "sleazy" and "decent guy", moreso than when he was introduced. He adds an interesting to the group dynamic, and Ive liked seeing him develop. I do hope this is the last of the pep talks though, and that the rest of the gang gets to be the hero sometimes more. 

So NOW Mrs. DeVoe notices that her hubbie is kind of deranged? She is totally going to end up betraying him when she realizes what a creep he really is. She might have slicked back her hair and everything, but she didn't sign up for this kind of villainy!

Strong episode, lets keep it up, show!

Edited February 7, 2018 by tennisgurl

[jay741982]

34 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

DeVoe took over Becky.  That monster.  Her arc could have been excellent with wanting to do good, and possibly joining Team Flash.  Then that monster DeVoe took control of her.  Yeah, it does help that she's the most adorable person on this show.

DeVoe Cosbying his wife?  Uncomfortable.  At least she should turn against him.

Yeah it fucking figures Devoe just has to take over the body of the most likeable of the Rogues Dammit. Like you said she is adorable and I should've known when they shown her and Barry bonding and she telling him she wanted to be good that she would be fucked over by the end of the episode SMH. I'm hoping they get Devoe out of her body without killing her 

[HunterHunted]

Disquiet in the house of DeVoe. As it should be because what he's doing is monstrous. The one redeeming quality he had was that he seemed to love his wife and cared about her. Now that he's jumping bodies, jumping genders, murdering people, and drugging his wife, Marlize has got realize that he's never really cared about how she felt about any of this.

17 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

This episode should have been titled "Finally!"  As in: Finally Team Flash remembers they have brains! Finally Cecile points out that a gazillion metas live in Central City! Finally this stupid prison plot is over so the story can move along! Finally Ralph becomes one of my favourite characters! Wait...how did that last one happen?

Seriously though, Ralph is so much better when they write him as an actual human being. And the plan to appear as DeVoe, alive and well, was brilliant. Although, I'm a bit confused about why he almost let the judge close the case. Like, did he just want to make a dramatic entrance? Did he get distracted by a pretty girl outside the courtroom? Did he miss his bus? What was that all about? Not that I really care, I'm just glad we can all move on now and hopefully never have to witness Cecile's mad lawyering skillz again.

I'm also glad that the plan was Ralph's. Team Flash has been trying to play it straight, but they can't beat DeVoe that way because he's eliminated all avenues for reasonable doubt, except for everyone else in the legal system forgetting that Central City is filled with metas who can do impossible things. I'm glad that Ralph was able to convince the team to be a little shady.

[tennisgurl]

Poor Barry is gonna develop a complex about giving these "you have potential to be good" speeches. They're pretty effective, but they dont seem to end well for the recipient. If Ralph dies too after his cheer leading to get him into heroing, the guy is going to need even MORE time with their therapist. 

[cambridgeguy]

Quote

There is a big difference between breaking out of prison and essentially being a wanted criminal and getting released from prison and being a free man.

True, but Barry was big on getting out via legal methods.  I'm pretty sure having your friend impersonate someone else is illegal.  Barry was freed based on a deception, but then again he was only in prison because of another deception, so I guess it all balances out.

[quarks]

(raises eyebrows) 

So, Barry refuses to leave jail unless it's "legally," a term which now apparently means "have a friend use his metapowers to impersonate the guy you supposedly killed." Uh-huh.  Plus, surely someone is going to ask a few questions when Original DeVoe can't be found again tomorrow.

On the other hand, Katee Sackhoff was having fun, Killer Frost admitted that she had no idea why she's still on the team, and Ralph was moderately less annoying than usual, which I'll take as a plus. 

[Primal Slayer]

3 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

True, but Barry was big on getting out via legal methods.  I'm pretty sure having your friend impersonate someone else is illegal.  Barry was freed based on a deception, but then again he was only in prison because of another deception, so I guess it all balances out.

Unless someone can prove that it wasnt Devoe there is nothing illegal about it. But he was still released the legal way. That's what is important to him. DeVoe played dirty and lied, Barry is playing dirty and lying.

[shantown]

I don't understand how being stretchy means you can change into a different person. Is that an actual ability of Dibney in the comic books or was it a convenient plot power since they needed someone to stand in as the Warden and later as Original DeVoe?

I'm hoping that Mrs. DeVoe switches sides soon - would be cool to have her brain power on Team Flash and although I'm all for a creepy villain, Mr. DeVoe is getting a little too creepy with the body-snatching and mind-reading.

(This was also my first live episode after I spent the last two months binge watching to catch up! Fun! Except now I have to wait THREE WEEKS for the next episode??)

[phoenics]

50 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

How are people not disgusted by the racist undertones of this storyline? Devoe takes over a black man's body (a man he procured from an an auction), then discards it once he had no use for the body and then takes over a white woman's body but had to take the life force out of another black man, an asian woman, and a couple of white men in the process... I know Devoe is evil and that this is what evil men do, but the Flash is doing it whilst being completely tone deaf to the social implications of this all. It's gross.

Not only that but this episode also had a white man whose superpower is to stretch himself, somehow figured out how to use those powers to morph his features so he made himself into a black guy...??

I'm just baffled by this show and even more baffled that a progressive show like Black Lightning follows this.

This episode was called True Colors... I guess they really did show their true colors in this episode.

My main upset came when DeVoe took over Dominic in the mid season finale.  He took Dominic's body after buying him from Amunet - to me those had the worst implications. 

One small correction - in this episode, he didn't absorb Wolfe's brain - he just killed him.   But the social implications of all of the brain absorbing, etc.. yes - it's problematic.  Go back to the mid-season finale thread and you'll see the outrage.  Compared to that, him sucking the brains out of the other people didn't hold the same resonance as when he literally bought a black man and then put on his body like a skin.  This time, he took on a white woman's body like a skin.  It's all gross - my guess is the writers hope we will forget the racial implications of what happened to Dominic because he's now done something similar to other characters of all races.

[Whodunnit]

Wouldn't it have been nice if Ralph as Devoe had added "...and my wife did not have my permission to cheat on me." And then look around like  *honestly, how thick are you people?*

[HunterHunted]

35 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

How are people not disgusted by the racist undertones of this storyline? Devoe takes over a black man's body (a man he procured from an an auction), then discards it once he had no use for the body and then takes over a white woman's body but had to take the life force out of another black man, an asian Native American woman, and a couple of white men in the process... I know Devoe is evil and that this is what evil men do, but the Flash is doing it whilst being completely tone deaf to the social implications of this all. It's gross.

I think people are disgusted by how messed up the DeVoe storyline is and having a white man steal the body of a Black man and the life force of all of those individuals. It is profoundly screwed up. I'm holding back a little bit because I want the entire arc to play out. It's a little different from criticism of the show's treatment of Iris because we know that the Flash isn't getting rid of Iris. 

35 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

Not only that but this episode also had a white man whose superpower is to stretch himself, somehow figured out how to use those powers to morph his features so he made himself into a black guy...??

Apparently, being able to morph himself into other people is one of Elongated Man's canon powers. Now the ability to do it across races, I'm not sure about.

[phoenics]

49 minutes ago, Proteus said:

I'm heartbroken over Becky. I loved her. :( I hope she can still be saved.

This was one of the best episodes of the season.

I love the Ralph/KF scene.

I missed Tom C.

If Dominic couldn't be saved, I hope they don't save Becky.  Sorry not sorry - the storyline is gross enough as it is.  I liked Becky too, but she was actually a criminal (even if she turned for the better at the end) and Dominic was completely and utterly innocent all along and never used his powers for evil.  So if Becky survives this I would literally call all kinds of foul on the writers for that.  The storyline is problematic enough without allowing the white female villain character to emerge from being body-snatched just fine and the black male innocent character to be the one that died after being body snatched.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I was just happy to see Paul McGuillion.

I liked how Becky's luck powers took down Amunet and Amunet in turn took out all the metaguards on her way down.

DeVoe went all Doc Octopus on his group of bus metas.  And by absorbing all the powers of the other metas, he really is turning into Sylar from 'Heroes'.  That isn't a good thing.

I think Marlize is having second thoughts after watching DeVoe (in Becky's body) kill Wolf just for kicks.

[tennisgurl]

1 hour ago, WindofChange said:

How are people not disgusted by the racist undertones of this storyline? Devoe takes over a black man's body (a man he procured from an an auction), then discards it once he had no use for the body and then takes over a white woman's body but had to take the life force out of another black man, an asian woman, and a couple of white men in the process... I know Devoe is evil and that this is what evil men do, but the Flash is doing it whilst being completely tone deaf to the social implications of this all. It's gross.

 

A lot of people were upset by the optics of DeVoe taking over Dominic, and talked a lot about the implications of the whole thing. I will personally be waiting until the whole arc is finished before calling the whole thing racist, especially as this appears to be DeVoes creepy new "thing", stealing the bodies/powers of people he gave powers to. Its certainly nasty and horrible, but he is supposed to be the increasingly horrible villain, and has moved beyond one race or type of person. 

And, quick correction, Black Bison is/was Native American, not Asian. 

[DearEvette]

I like that DeVoe is starting to deviate from his grand master plan because of the growing megalomania.  And that growing megalomania is creating cracks in his formerly solid marriage.

I also like that the wild card element of Ralph having a power that DeVoe could never predict and them using it in a way he could never predict is what derails his plans and show that he isn't as omniscient as he thinks.  This is the kind of thing I want to see more of. 

Liked Ralph's comment about Wolfe's sharp cheekbones.  LOL.

When I saw them showing the previously on scenes with Camille's mind reading I figured it would be used in this episode.  Nice deployment of it for real plot reasons.

I really loved seeing Barry do Science!

And aww he and Iris together at the end.  Sweet.

[WindofChange]

17 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Its certainly nasty and horrible, but he is supposed to be the increasingly horrible villain, and has moved beyond one race or type of person. 

See that's the thing... When Guggenheim was called out in 409 of Arrow about putting Felicity in a gas chamber he said that Damien was EVIL! That really wasn't the point though... The point is that you can't do things like that without touching upon the social issues surrounding it... why specifically it's bad that a black man was sold at an auction or a white man killed a native american/2 black people... Otherwise it's just tone deaf and completely inappropriate.

If it ends up being that he just does that to everyone I still call BS on that. They simply never should've done this storyline the way they did. It's incredibly gross and distasteful. Because Devoe, a white man, went from using a black man's body for his own gain to a woman's body. It's no better.

Edited February 7, 2018 by WindofChange

[Primal Slayer]

As far as killing...he killed 2 white guys in the same scene so killing a native american/2 black guys doesn't really send any particular message. 

If it is shown that DeVoe takes another persons body (say a white guys) then him taking over a black guy and a white woman won't be that big of a deal for me. It will show that he takes over anyone for his gain. 

[phoenics]

35 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

See that's the thing... When Guggenheim was called out in 409 of Arrow about putting Felicity in a gas chamber he said that Damien was EVIL! That really wasn't the point though... The point is that you can't do things like that without touching upon the social issues surrounding it... why specifically it's bad that a black man was sold at an auction or a white man killed a native american/2 black people... Otherwise it's just tone deaf and completely inappropriate.

If it ends up being that he just does that to everyone I still call BS on that. They simply never should've done this storyline the way they did. It's incredibly gross and distasteful. Because Devoe, a white man, went from using a black man's body for his own gain to a woman's body. It's no better.

I agree with you actually.  The show should have at least called out that it was problematic and awful - but this show likes to pretend race doesn't exist, so *rolls eyes*.  

For the record, I wasn't trying to excuse it - just pointing out that we were outraged about it and proposing what the writers might be thinking they can "clean the gross up" as they try to make DeVoe bad to everyone and not just the black man.  But yes - he still took over the body of a white woman so still horribly problematic.  The whole storyline is actually.

I don't even understand why DeVoe needed Becky's body.  I liked the Dominic actor and preferred him anyway.  Well, I preferred the original DeVoe the most and am sad he's gone.  A lot of what made the DeVoes seem like a different sort of villainous couple was how they loved each other... but I guess DeVoe has descended into madness or something?  Marlize is realizing she's not as ride or die as she thought, lol.

[WindofChange]

18 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

As far as killing...he killed 2 white guys in the same scene so killing a native american/2 black guys doesn't really send any particular message. 

IDK I feel like this is a very similar to saying that Arrow doesn't have a problem with fridging women because they kill men too in which case Sara/Laurel/Samantha/Moira/Baby Sara weren't a product of sexism because the writers also killed a lot of men... We all know just because they kill men as well doesn't mean they don't have a problem with fridging female characters.

[phoenics]

25 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

As far as killing...he killed 2 white guys in the same scene so killing a native american/2 black guys doesn't really send any particular message. 

If it is shown that DeVoe takes another persons body (say a white guys) then him taking over a black guy and a white woman won't be that big of a deal for me. It will show that he takes over anyone for his gain. 

Yeah - but this is literally only because the writers are trying to cover up the poor idea to have him bodysnatch a sold black man to him in the first place.  While he was trying to buy the other metas, Dominic is the only one he successfully purchased... and the only one who wasn't a criminal... 

But I do think the writers are trying to say "See?  We aren't problematic since DeVoe is an equal opportunity bad guy bodysnatching everyone!".  It's still gross, lol.

I'd almost have preferred that one of the metas have healing powers aka Logan/Wolverine so original DeVoe could heal himself with that meta (sucking out his/her powers) and then sucking the powers from the rest of the metas - that feels less problematic to me than the body swapping.

Just now, WindofChange said:

IDK I feel like this is a very similar to saying that Arrow doesn't have a problem with fridging women because they kill men too in which case Sara/Laurel/Samantha/Moira/Baby Sara weren't a product of sexism because the writers also killed a lot of men... We all know just because they kill men as well doesn't mean they don't have a problem with fridging female characters.

Good point - especially when there aren't that many women in the first place... just like there aren't that many characters of color.  So when you fridge one, it's not necessarily balanced out when you fridge a white one - especially when they aren't important to begin with.

But I do think the writers think they can escape the problematic nature of what they are writing by appearing "equal opportunity" even if in reality, it still isn't equal and therefore still problematic.

[ruby24]

I really hope they can somehow bring back DeVoe's original body, because he was so much better as the villain when Neil Sandilands was playing him. And we just didn't get enough of him! Feels like we only got him for what, two episodes? Three? 

If he's supposed to go mad and have Marlize turn on him, I would have liked to see that happen with Sandilands' Devoe. I'm not giving up hope that they're going to circle back to that eventually...maybe DeVoe will want to resurrect his old body to make her love him again or something. Otherwise, I almost feel like the writers didn't know what they had with Sandilands on hand as the bad guy. He was the best human villain since Tom Cavanagh in Season 1, but this body-swapping stuff isn't as intimidating. 

Maybe to them it seemed like a wacky, cool idea in concept more than execution.

[Primal Slayer]

6 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

IDK I feel like this is a very similar to saying that Arrow doesn't have a problem with fridging women because they kill men too in which case Sara/Laurel/Samantha/Moira/Baby Sara weren't a product of sexism because the writers also killed a lot of men... We all know just because they kill men as well doesn't mean they don't have a problem with fridging female characters.

Except they treat the womens deaths quite differently then they do the men. Everyone who died in this episode were killed in the same exact way. 

7 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Yeah - but this is literally only because the writers are trying to cover up the poor idea to have him bodysnatch a sold black man to him in the first place.  While he was trying to buy the other metas, Dominic is the only one he successfully purchased... and the only one who wasn't a criminal... 

The buying is an issue in itself, that was just plain messy. But the switching of bodies, I think that was meant to be a multiple thing and isnt a magical fix. 

[WindofChange]

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

Except they treat the womens deaths quite differently then they do the men. Everyone who died in this episode were killed in the same exact way. 

Amunet literally bought a black slave and sold him to Devoe??? Which is different than how the white people on this show were treated. 

[phoenics]

One more thing... haven't we seen Ralph go through this story already?  I mean - every episode it feels like a redux of "People in danger!"  and then Ralph is all "Meh - not feeling it for reason A B C D E" and then "pep talk for Ralph!" and then Ralph comes through.

It's the same writers.

Can we move on now?

[WindofChange]

10 minutes ago, phoenics said:

For the record, I wasn't trying to excuse it - just pointing out that we were outraged about it and proposing what the writers might be thinking they can "clean the gross up" as they try to make DeVoe bad to everyone and not just the black man.  But yes - he still took over the body of a white woman so still horribly problematic.  The whole storyline is actually.

Don't worry, I didn't think you were :) 

I don't know I guess I'm disappointed because I expected a lot of noise about this not just from fans but from journalists. Where are all those journalists who made such a huge fuss about Lexa's death? It is maddening that they were so vocal about that but continue to stay mute on racial issues such as this one. I think it's things like these storylines that shouldn't be blown over, it should be examined and criticized so shows like The Flash don't make these kinds of mistakes again... Alas, it was such a fool's errand to hope for this.

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, WindofChange said:

Amunet literally bought a black slave and sold him to Devoe??? Which is different than how the white people on this show were treated. 

Like I said in my post above, the selling is a totally different subject. Killing off a Native American woman and 2 black guys in this episode however, is different. They were treated the no different then the two white guys who got killed off. 

[phoenics]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

Like I said in my post above, the selling is a totally different subject. Killing off a Native American woman and 2 black guys in this episode however, is different. They were treated the no different then the two white guys who got killed off. 

Are we counting Dominic as one of the black guys who died?  Because technically he died when DeVoe took over his body.  Becky is now "dead" because of that too.

[RedVitC]

Very quick reaction: Good episode I think.

-Smart Barry as well as sweet/advice giving Barry. They're doing a good job with Barry.

-Surprised what happened with Devoe. For a second I thought that Devoe would target Barry next when that thing went up again from Becky. My hope is that none of the metahumans are actually dead, but that when the Thinker is defeated their essences will float back to their bodies (I know that's a completely unrealistic expectation, we don't even know what happened to their bodies)

-The Barry and Iris moment was small, but sweet. Barry is such a romantic, lol. Love him.

-Iris coming up with plans is nice (but couldn't they have used the technology that HR used when he transformed into Iris last season?)

-I liked the scene with Ralph and Killer Frost. Those two make a surprisingly good team.

[Trini]

So I refuse to believe this Barry-in-prison arc was planned out at all when the way he was incarcerated was dumb and the way they got him out was dumb. I mean, the real way to do it would be to prove Barry innocent. Plus, Marlize could have easily proven that Fake!Clifford was NOT her husband. I know it's TV, but they really didn't try at all when it came to this Trial arc.

I'm glad Barry's finally out, but I just think the whole arc has been more lame than anything.

Once with Dominic was bad enough, now they're doubling down on the body swapping?! I thought Dominic and his powers was the only reason the body swap worked, so I'm just confused as to how DeVoe can even be in Becky AND have Dominic's powers. And now he's drugging his wife. I know he's a villain and all, but they were at least loyal to each other. But I guess this is how they'll be defeated.

Glad to see Barry being smart -- which mostly happens when he's away from the Team.

So they brought out Killer Frost just to give Ralph a pep talk? They really don't know what to do with Caitlin/KF. But at least she got some scenes?

Amunet escapes YET AGAIN. Is this literally what she's here for? To cause trouble and then disappear until next time? It would one thing if she was a Big Bad, but she shouldn't be a such a big problem for Team Flash. Now it's just annoying that no one catches her. Maybe Killer Frost could help with that since they worked together.
 

2 hours ago, phoenics said:

I guess I should have known all the metas and Wolfe would die - since they knew he was the Flash.

Even if dead, they still make The List!

[Lantern7]

Well, Barry's out of prison and full exonerated. That's the important thing, right? I mean, DeVoe jumped to another body, he's somebody absorbed the powers of Bus Metas (we need a better term) as he killed them, he still has mind-reading, Ralph displayed (non-canon) shapeshifting abilities and gave me weird Tropic Thunder flashbacks, he impersonated DeVoe 1.0 to plot device Barry out of the pokey, and Cecile still has telepathy for no good damn reason. But Barry's out!

Actually, I had fun with the episode, even as DeVoe is going into farfetched villain territory. Think of it this way: Legends of Tomorrow comes back next week. If the last episode of The Flash before the small break was sane, we'd suffer whiplash going into LoT. So we had to see things go batshit in getting Barry back to Team Flash. Now, having everybody who knew Barry's secret get killed (except maybe Wolfe's henchmen)? Sure, why not? Also, Wolfe was wasted; the comic canon version was a pain in the asses of Wally West and Barry Allen, even up to today (IIRC).

Random thought: was Cecile in close contact with Whashisface . . . DeVoe's first new body? Maybe that's how she got it. Points to her for not immediately reacting to Wolfe's lie.

I guess that Ralph's new ability is within possibility. But getting the voice of a guy he's never met, and changing his skin color? Bit of a stretch. [rimshot] Worse, Ralph goes into a pity party for not holding onto that form, even though he's just started doing that. At least he came up with the idea of impersonating DeVoe, which everybody will buy because this is Central City. Even better, he didn't have to walk around.

Why did DeVoe have to transfer? And into Becky? She's the cute one! I mean, she was the most dangerous one in the group, but she was willing to change. But DeVoe has possessed her, and I'm guessing the missus is a little more weirded out. Or she was before Cliff doped her. The worst part? Cliff DeVoe is an unbearably serious villain who doesn't indulge in wacky stuff . . . which means he/she will more than likely not dress in something form-fitting and dance to "Poison" by Bell Biv Devoe. Pity.

Barry playing scientist was fun. Caitlin going Killer Frost? Meh, though it's oddly impressive she can cut herself, and immediately heal upon transition.

[WindofChange]

5 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Like I said in my post above, the selling is a totally different subject. Killing off a Native American woman and 2 black guys in this episode however, is different. They were treated the no different then the two white guys who got killed off. 

Frank Pike, Vincent, Billy Malone, Maseo, Akio, Sebastian Blood, Shrapnel, and a lot more other men... all died as victims and not heroes. My point still stands.

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, WindofChange said:

Frank Pike, Vincent, Billy Malone, Maseo, Akio, Sebastian Blood, Shrapnel, and a lot more other men... all died as victims and not heroes. My point still stands.

All those men were guest stars. The women who were killed were series regulars and major characters. They also didn't die to further the men of Arrows personal storylines. 

8 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Are we counting Dominic as one of the black guys who died?  Because technically he died when DeVoe took over his body.  Becky is now "dead" because of that too.

True. Though his death didn't annoy as much as the selling off did. But like I said, if DeVoe keeps switching bodies the same way and lets say they find a way for a white body to live afterwards Dominic dying the way he did won't be that big of a problem for me.

[scarynikki12]

Stay on topic please.  We have the Lightning Rods thread if you want to continue discussing problematic stories, characters, and other elements of the show.

[WindofChange]

3 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

All those men were guest stars. The women who were killed were series regulars and major characters. They also didn't die to further the men of Arrows personal storylines. 

Maseo was a major player in season 3, Billy was used to further Felicity's storyline, Frank was killed for no reason whatsoever and he's been on this show since season 1, Sebastian blood was a big part of season 2, Akio was a big part of season 3 and Oliver's story and his death fueled Maseo/Tatsu's break-up...

I mean look if you're ok with minorities being killed then that's fine by me, I just want to end this conversation because it's going nowhere. I personally don't like it because they're minorities for a reason. They barely have representation as is and having a minority killed off isn't the same as a white man being killed off, nor does killing a white man equalize things. But that's just me so let's leave it at that

[phoenics]

13 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Why did DeVoe have to transfer? And into Becky?

I had that question too.  I thought that DeVoe needed Dominic specifically because his was the only body that could handle the brain stuff... otherwise he could just jump into any meta.  Or are they saying that because of Dominic's powers with mind reading that it was the powers that made his body able to contain DeVoe's greatness?  But then why did DeVoe get ALS in the first place?  He got turned into a meta when the PA went off - why didn't that make him a meta?  Why didn't Barry's speed tear his body apart like DeVoe's increased intelligence ripped his body apart?

I feel like by having DeVoe transfer into Becky the writers messed up the reasoning behind why DeVoe had ALS.

I miss original DeVoe.  I liked Dominic as DeVoe - the actor worked really hard to sell the old mannerisms and tics of the original actor.  The Becky actress just doesn't seem to have the same chops, imo and I don't see any of DeVoe in her at all.  I think it may also be because Dominic, even though black, had a similar mouth and eye color to original DeVoe and he seemed to work really hard to BE DeVoe.  Becky actress not so much.

It feels like DeVoe jumped the shark for me and for Marlize.

[Cthulhudrew]

Barry: "It's not our powers that make us bad, it's how we use them."

Um. Apparently unless your name is Caitlin Frost (and seemingly Clifford Devoe?)

And of course that whole scene with Barry leads directly into still-bafflingly-somehow-Multiple-Personality Caitlin giving Ralph a pep talk as Killer Frost. And her weird voice autotune effect was inconsistent (and nigh-nonexistent by the end of the scene). Maybe it was deliberate, indicating that Caitlin's two personalities are coming to an accord?

I still say they should just explain it away by saying that it is a result of Savitar and Flashpoint leaving some kind of remnant of alternate KF on Caitlin's mind. Or something.

Speaking of handwavium, was there a reason why Devoe just decided to switch bodies again? Hidden gender curiosity? Creative way of spreading around guest-appearance dollars? I actually miss the original Devoe. These substitutes just don't quite cut it.

Also, I was probably not paying attention enough last week, but didn't they state that Shrinking Guy (whatever his name was) wasn't one of the Bus metas previously?

Nice to see Richard Brooks being given some comedy to play. I've enjoyed his deadpan humor ever since the days of G vs E (or Good vs. Evil, depending on when you first watched it).

ETA: Theory time- could Cecile's sudden telepathy be Dominic transferring himself into her child's mind in order to save himself from Devoe's Body Snatcher's bit?

Edited February 7, 2018 by Cthulhudrew