S02.E12: Chapter Twenty-Five: The Wicked and the Divine

[kissedbyarose]

Well, since I’m not all that particularily invested in Betty/Jughead, I’ll be the lone wolf in saying that this was a miss for me. My problem was that it didn’t even have to be! The arcs/plot points that the writers want to hit are being undermined by some disturbing (and non-sensical to me) choices. I agree with some people that the show should embrace the crazy, camp but I don’t think this episode really did that. 

Betty as a cam girl will never make sense to me. No matter how many times the word darkness is used. What the hell is that even supposed to mean in relation to Betty anyway? Chic Cooper is also a miss and now we have another dead body. 

Bittersweet Symphony at a Confirmation? Remember the awesomely tap ceremony that Archie attended with Cheryl? The Confirmation should have been similar just sinister men and women eating delicious Latino (do we know where exactly the Lodges are from?) foods speaking Spanish and Veronica knowing exactly whats going on and Archie being blissfully dumb while he’s being forced fed stuff he’s probably never seen before... while enjoying himself and Veronica torn between her family and everything she knows and Archie who is dumb and innocent and has no idea what is going on around him. 

Jughead - the only good thing about this storyline is FP. Jughead joining the Serpents could’ve been interesting - then they tried make him some kind of leader, along with that terrible Serpent backstory then the mutilation....

I wish this season was plotted better I guess is what I’m trying to say.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 minute ago, kissedbyarose said:

Well, since I’m not all that particularily invested in Betty/Jughead, I’ll be the lone wolf in saying that this was a miss for me. My problem was that it didn’t even have to be! The arcs/plot points that the writers want to hit are being undermined by some disturbing (and non-sensical to me) choices. I agree with some people that the show should embrace the crazy, camp but I don’t think this episode really did that. 

Betty as a cam girl will never make sense to me. No matter how many times the word darkness is used. What the hell is that even supposed to mean in relation to Betty anyway? Chic Cooper is also a miss and now we have another dead body. 

Bittersweet Symphony at a Confirmation? Remember the awesomely tap ceremony that Archie attended with Cheryl? The Confirmation should have been similar just sinister men and women eating delicious Latino (do we know where exactly the Lodges are from?) foods speaking Spanish and Veronica knowing exactly whats going on and Archie being blissfully dumb while he’s being forced fed stuff he’s probably never seen before... while enjoying himself and Veronica torn between her family and everything she knows and Archie who is dumb and innocent and has no idea what is going on around him. 

Jughead - the only good thing about this storyline is FP. Jughead joining the Serpents could’ve been interesting - then they tried make him some kind of leader, along with that terrible Serpent backstory then the mutilation....

I wish this season was plotted better I guess is what I’m trying to say.

Aside from the Bughead stuff which as a Bughead shipper, I agree with almost your entire post.

And the cam stuff isn’t good at all and like I’ve said a million times I don’t like Dark betty. Because the way they seem to be using Betty’s mental illness is by making it this sexual thing and that’s just sours me on this show and this episode.

And also yeah.. I could have done without another dead body, this one that puts Alice and Betty in a tough place. Even if Chic killed someone, they’re still in this mess now and I’m not a fan.

Also yeah.. when I’m reading that this episode has season 1 vibes, the only parts I got were the Bughead ones and even though it’s all so tied up in the gang story that it takes away from it a bit.

The show I think will sadly never go back to the fun vibe they had in season 1. At least I don’t think so. 

[WhosThatGirl]

11 minutes ago, Sonoma said:

Has the show made it a "sexual" thing though? To me it felt like the fans and media including the CW turned it into a sexual thing. From the beginning I saw the webcamming as another way of Betty self-harming and coping with her anxiety, a way to take back control of her spiraling life. Some teenagers drink, some do drugs, etc. to cope. The webcamming involves sex (depends though) but I don't find it sexual at all. We also don't know how far Betty has gone with this nor if she's going to keep going.

From what we saw of it in this episode, it looks and sounded pretty sexual to me. Betty was only wearing a bra and a tiny little skirt. It seems like that’s what it was. And that’s what it sounded like from the brief but we heard. I kind of hope this was it but who knows. I just feel like there were other ways for Betty to deal with her mental illness and wish they didn’t keep using “Dark betty” the way they do. 

And yeah Betty is only hurting herself but still.. something about is really

uncomfortable to watch. Don’t get me wrong I was just as uncomfortable with Jughead scraping a tattoo off a person, I hated that too and wish that never happened.That has made me angry about a lot of this season as well. It’s probably why I’ll never like the gang story, no matter how many Native American backstories they try to sell in it. Sorry, no. 

It just feels like this story was another miss step in this season. 

Edited February 1, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[WhosThatGirl]

7 minutes ago, Sonoma said:

I'm sorry I meant yes, the webcamming involves sex in some way shape or form.  But I still don't find it sexual if that makes sense. We're not supposed to go, "Ooooh Betty you freak!" It's more of a Betty is/was self-harming in a different way now. 

I think what's bothering me also is that some people seem more horrified by Betty webcamming than Jughead cutting the skin off of another person or Veronica deliberately lying to and conning her "friends". But I mean that respectfully! I really do. I understand that mileage may vary and completely respect our difference of opinion.

But see how crazy this show is that I'm comparing webcamming to mutilation to conning your friends for your mobster father. Hee!

 

I don’t. I think both Betty and Jugheads actions are horrific and uncomfortable to watch and don’t understand. I don’t really get what the writers were going for either scene. I really don’t. 

And my reaction would have been more extreme about Jughead if I had posted in that episodes forum- believe me! I haven’t watched that episode, I only read recaps and saw previouslys. But I would have rightly talked about it like I’m talking about Betty and the webcam stuff now.

And don’t get me wrong, I liked this episode, I did, but I still feel we’re dealing with a lot of missteps. And I sadly don’t think this show will ever go back to season one.

And I know Sonoma you said to try and focus less on the characters random scenes and more on the relationships and things like that but it’s hard to do. I feel like this webcam stuff is going to come back to hurt Betty somewhere and that makes me sad. 

Edited February 1, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[notcreative enough]

It might be boring but I want to see these kids studying for the SATs or maybe go back to football and cheerleading. You stuff that teenagers do. Its like they should have made them twenty somethings and not 16 year olds. The web cam, murder cover ups, mob involvement, gang warfare, shady "FBI" it's just a bit too much all at once. Maybe if the spreed it out over a few seasons. It doesn't feel like the same show. Are Betty and Veronica even friends anymore? Why didn't Veronica ever talk to Betty about the Archie kiss.

[WhosThatGirl]

8 minutes ago, notcreative enough said:

It might be boring but I want to see these kids studying for the SATs or maybe go back to football and cheerleading. You stuff that teenagers do. Its like they should have made them twenty somethings and not 16 year olds. The web cam, murder cover ups, mob involvement, gang warfare, shady "FBI" it's just a bit too much all at once. Maybe if the spreed it out over a few seasons. It doesn't feel like the same show. Are Betty and Veronica even friends anymore? Why didn't Veronica ever talk to Betty about the Archie kiss.

Yeah. I would like that too. Sadly I think that ship has sailed. And last season was a little dark but not like this. They wanted a dark show and now this is where we are at and I think they now wish the teens were older and not 16. Because they sure as hell are writing them way older.

I don’t know. I really liked this episode at first last night but now I think about it and I wish the show was fun again. Even last night wasn’t fun like it was a season ago. 

Edited February 1, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Because the way they seem to be using Betty’s mental illness is by making it this sexual thing and that’s just sours me on this show and this episode.

That does annoy me. Is it because she's a pretty young girl they feel they want to throw all this sexual stuff at her. Couldn't she be a cutter or a closet drinker or her darkness be a kind of secret rage. Like with the hot tub incident, that was a darkness to me, that point where she lost herself, lost her sense of right and wrong and very well might have killed whats his name if Veronica hadn't stepped in. They did an okay job explaining why she was slutted up by making it a way to lure him in. But then they had her do the worlds most depressing striptease, which I don't think was Dark Betty at all. I think that was just normal Betty degrading herself for a guy. This camming, this isn't Dark Betty either. This is sad Betty. I don't see it as her doing something dark. I see it as her being a sad, lonely little girl looking for love and friendship online, which means it should be over, since her and Juggy have reconnected, and I'd think the main reason she felt lonely was the breakup. 

I hope they actually have some purpose to it other than showing her in her wig again and pretending that makes her Dark Betty. 

[RedInk]

21 hours ago, Sonoma said:

My opinion about the dumb mistakes that Jughead and Betty have made, are making, and will continue to make? They're 16. It's hard to remember given that they're played by two of the most beautiful adults on the planet who have crazy chemistry,  but they're teenagers who sometimes make bad decisions. I'd be more concerned if Betty and Jughead were in their mid-20s and doing these dumb things like trying to be a gang leader or webcamming out of curiosity. 

Well, but not really dumb mistakes. To me, participating in organized crime and making child pornography doesn't really translate into experimenting and making bad decisions. I find it far worse that they're children and would rather see someone in their 20s doing this. I would definitely find it easier to watch, which is why I'm out. This started off so fun - the throwback aesthetic was so moody & dreamy. But Eeeeeeeeew. 

Edited February 2, 2018 by RedInk

[WhosThatGirl]

16 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

That does annoy me. Is it because she's a pretty young girl they feel they want to throw all this sexual stuff at her. Couldn't she be a cutter or a closet drinker or her darkness be a kind of secret rage. Like with the hot tub incident, that was a darkness to me, that point where she lost herself, lost her sense of right and wrong and very well might have killed whats his name if Veronica hadn't stepped in. They did an okay job explaining why she was slutted up by making it a way to lure him in. But then they had her do the worlds most depressing striptease, which I don't think was Dark Betty at all. I think that was just normal Betty degrading herself for a guy. This camming, this isn't Dark Betty either. This is sad Betty. I don't see it as her doing something dark. I see it as her being a sad, lonely little girl looking for love and friendship online, which means it should be over, since her and Juggy have reconnected, and I'd think the main reason she felt lonely was the breakup. 

I hope they actually have some purpose to it other than showing her in her wig again and pretending that makes her Dark Betty. 

This. It’s why I hate Dark Betty but it seems the show, the network, and some fans seem to like it.

If they really did mental illness and explored it, I’d be all for it, teen shows never really do but not this.

Also maybe I’m having such a hard time with The webcam stuff is the climate of the world we live in now. Also we have to keep in mind, the actress is adult but Betty is underage and that makes me so uncomfortable. Who knows who she is webcamming with and how old they are. 

Im not out of this show for good but I need to know where the writers are going with this. They seem to have gone nowhere when they had Jughead scrape a tattoo off someone.. they keep

mentioning it but all it seems to be doing is reinforcing his gang status or whatever the hell. So I don’t know where the webcamming stuff.. I kind of hope it never resurfaces. 

Edited February 1, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[UsernameFatigue]

This episode bored me, just as most of this season has. I'm not sure how much longer I will stick around.

I was curious as to why TPTB picked the dress that Veronica wore. It would never be considered acceptable at a Catholic confirmation, as both shoulders and backs have to be covered. So Veronica's sleeveless dress with the large back cutout would be a no-no. I find it hard to believe that writers/wardrobe people would not know this, so is the point that the Lodges are so rich and important that little things like dress code (which is to signify modesty) are ignored? I'm not even Catholic (though my husband is) and I know better. BTW my husband was confirmed at 12 and his brother was confirmed in the same ceremony at 13 1/2 as confirmation only happened every other year in his home town. 

[Mabinogia]

19 minutes ago, Sonoma said:

Yes I do see it as dumb, and bad, mistakes.

I do too, because they are only 16. They are too young to realize how high the stakes are for their actions. If these were college kids I'd be a lot harder on them but they are high school kids who have lived pretty sheltered lives. Especially Betty, whose mother has worked VERY hard to keep anything bad from happening to her, but also Jughead. His live hasn't been easy but he's not exactly a rent boy living on the streets either and it seems that, until recently, FP did try to keep him away from all the gang activity. He probably grew up with this glorified idea of what it was like. All honor and codes and brothers above all others, blah blah, so when Penny "betrayed" them, he felt justified in doing something terrible because he's really just a kid and doesn't get it. 

I am hoping the outcome of all of this is that Jug and Betty both figure out that they aren't alone, they have a support system, they have people who care about them without a webcam or a leather jacket, and that they are better when they are with the people who really care about them. What I'm getting at is, I hope this is "rock bottom" for them each and that they are going to stick by each other and pull each other out of the abyss they have both jumped into. 

[RedInk]

40 minutes ago, Sonoma said:

Yes I do see it as dumb, and bad, mistakes. If they were adults I'd see it as more deliberate actions. I get that others see the show and storylines more negatively than I do and I can respect that. I don't look into the show that deeply when it comes to the actual plots and storylines, so I understand I may see things differently. But I don't think they're glorifying nor do I condone child pornography.

Well I sounded really snarky & didn't mean to imply that you condone it! Sorry! I am just too old for the show (really) and I'm too creeped out by the recent turn of events. I think they could have gone a different way with the character & still gotten the point across. A 15-year old pole dancer & camgirl storyline seems...exploitative. 

[Mabinogia]

I agree with you both. I don't like that the show went there, it does seem exploitative, but I also think it is the kind of dumb shit that kids who aren't used to consequences would do because, they're not used to consequences. I just hope this is, as I said, a kind of rock bottom, we make each other better so let's not break up again, kind of story, rather than, let's show Betty in her underwear as much as possible. The jury is still out, but I have hope. 

Also, Alice is going to fucking lose her shit when she finds out. That will be interesting, if this Chic really is her son how is she going to deal with her son leading her precious daughter into that world. If this Chic isn't really her son she'll probably murder him. lol

[catrice2]

Well, I've already resorted to reading this board instead of watching the show..not watching is next.   I don't think I can even was the DVR of Betty being a cam girl.  Who is writing this show this year?  Do they have a different show runner?  

[tennisgurl]

I wish they could expand a bit more on the darker sides of Jughead and Betty, if they were going to go so hard on it. What they're getting up to goes beyond typical teenage rebellion, this is joining gangs and doing underage internet sex work. I can make guesses on why they're doing this, but they dont seem to be getting into it too much. I hope they will soon, because this story is getting really dark for them, and if this has an actual point to make about mental illness of growing up with an alcoholic or something, I can get behind it. If not, its just uncomfortable. 

[notcreative enough]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

I do too, because they are only 16. They are too young to realize how high the stakes are for their actions. If these were college kids I'd be a lot harder on them but they are high school kids who have lived pretty sheltered lives. Especially Betty, whose mother has worked VERY hard to keep anything bad from happening to her, but also Jughead. His live hasn't been easy but he's not exactly a rent boy living on the streets either and it seems that, until recently, FP did try to keep him away from all the gang activity. He probably grew up with this glorified idea of what it was like. All honor and codes and brothers above all others, blah blah, so when Penny "betrayed" them, he felt justified in doing something terrible because he's really just a kid and doesn't get it. 

I am hoping the outcome of all of this is that Jug and Betty both figure out that they aren't alone, they have a support system, they have people who care about them without a webcam or a leather jacket, and that they are better when they are with the people who really care about them. What I'm getting at is, I hope this is "rock bottom" for them each and that they are going to stick by each other and pull each other out of the abyss they have both jumped into. 

I don't mind dumb kids not realizing what that are doing can have lasting consequences. For me Betty and Archie are the dumb kids where Veronica and Jughead are on a different level. Veronica has no business being in the "family business" no father would allow his 16 year old daughter into that part of their lives. Especially a man like Hiram. FP did everything to keep Jughead out and if he wasn't in prison he wouldn't have allowed him to join. And that's my issue with the Jughead serpent story is that this know nothing kid became the leader while his father was in prison. How did he have any power after a week. It was like he and the other baby snakes were making all the decisions like with the snake charmer. Teenagers shouldn't have this type of power. 

[SourK]

It's hard for me to even sift through my thoughts and figure out what my biggest question is, but I'll try: Why does the fact that Tall Boy betrayed everyone mean no one cares that Jughead betrayed Snake Charmer?

I have other questions, too. Like:

• Why did everyone just go along with it when the kid they were about to vote out of the Serpents showed up with the stolen head and blamed the person who was lobbying for his exile for stealing it?
• Why is the testimony that the Serpent at the junk yard as "tall" so damning for Tall Boy? Are the rest of them unusually short?
• Why did Tall Boy tell everyone he was planning to betray them instead of playing it off another way (like, "I wanted us to go back to our roots and fight against the system!" or "I did what you were all afraid to do at the protest!")
• If there's a way to vote people out of the gang, why didn't they try to vote Snake Charmer out when she was taking advantage of most of them?
• Since Betty's mom yelled "Betty" when she was webcamming, does that mean her chat buddy now knows her name?
• Did Archie just forget that his motivation to turn in Mr. Lodge is immunity for his dad and Veronica? Why does he suddenly love Mr. Lodge now that he gets his drycleaning for him? Are we being set up for a Veronica-Archie-Mr. Lodge love triangle now?

Speaking of Mr. Lodge... that whole sequence felt like a choice in a Telltale game. Do you tell Mr. Lodge someone's going to betray him? Do you tell the FBI that you told Mr. Lodge? Mr. Lodge is pleased with you. The FBI is disappointed.

 

23 hours ago, SeanC said:

In the realm of minor, irrelevant details that the show gets wrong, Veronica makes a big deal about getting her friends invited to her Confirmation as if it's normally a family-only affair, which...no.  Confirmations (when they're held specially and not as part of a regular service) are open affairs; literally anybody can show up, assuming they know when it's being held.

 

 

23 hours ago, emcmac87 said:

So I'm only 10 minutes in, but it seems they are implying Catholisicsm with Veronica.  My "grandfather" ( his brother died early so he stepped in) was a priest so I've tried to be accurate with my info. Confirmation happens around 16-18years old, because the point is that you are making your own choice to be a member of the church. First communion is done around age 8( when u can receive the Eucharist) and that's when everyone wears diff white dresses  Prob wrote too much about this. 

But weird they changed confirmation when it was actually correct for their characters timeline. 

 

I feel like this episode was confused between a bat mizvah, a quinceañera, a confirmation, and an open mic night. My favorite detail is how specific Veronica was when she said, "Do you know 'Bittersweet Symphony' from the movie Cruel Intentions?" Was it a roundabout way of saying Josie would get her comeuppance or was it a plug for the movie Cruel Intentions? Who knows!

 

20 hours ago, Snookums said:

I love how Hal is the one who's actually making the good point but Alice is the one who's all yeah but YOU'RE A SCUMMY JERKFACE and she just wins everything. 

I legitimately forget this -- is Hal supposed to be this cam kid's father?

[WhosThatGirl]

I go back and forth on the webcam stuff. On one hand I get that they’re kids and they’re making mistakes. On the other hand, it makes me queasy because they are kids and who knows who Betty is web camming with.

And I can’t get past the use of Dark Betty and the Link to her sadness and possible mental illness. I just can’t. And there does seem to be a link to this and someone the powers thatvge(the network, maybe even the people on the show who are writing the episodes) making it sexual. That is happening. And I don’t feel right about it either.

But I am conflicted about it.

[thefreeair]

I wish they'd given the cam-girl story to Cheryl because I get the sense that she'd at least have fun with it. I have no idea what they are going for with Betty, though I get the sense that we are seeing a clumsy, weird declaration from the show like, "Look at how edgy we are! Aren't we edgy? We're Sexy and Edgy!" And... well no, show. I disagree. You're like if Sons of Anarchy was aired as a lifetime movie instead of an FX series. You're like if Mad Men was all Don Draper's man-pain all the time without the welcome relief of Pete-the-imp-Campbell, and Peggy sauntering into her new office with a cigarette hanging from her lips, and Roger Sterling's rapier wit. 

I mean, look no further than the Serpents nonsense for proof. What is this shit? If I have to sit through teen gang shenanigans, I need about 80% more camp and 100% less over-the-top seriousness. Because, here's the thing. The reason why Alice and Cheryl are so entertaining is that the show has designated them the de facto camp bringers, and the characters (and actors) lean right into it. And it works!

What's not working is the self-righteous outrage and brattery the rest of the cast is flinging all over the place. Even when Buffy was at its darkest, it was still bringing the situational humour and witty banter. And those kids were dealing with actual demons, so... you know. Have more fun, Riverdale! You're a teen soap, not a prestige drama on AMC. Damn.

Edited February 2, 2018 by thefreeair

[AdorkableSars]

On 1/31/2018 at 7:04 PM, RogerDodger said:

I loved that Jughead was able to solve the mystery of the missing head based on the junkman's description of the perp as being "tall."  There's definitely an investigative journalism career in his future.

Bahahahahah!! I actually burst into raucous laughter at this scene. "Was he..........tall?"

On 1/31/2018 at 7:11 PM, jay741982 said:

On another note LOVE seeing Bughead and they sealed the deal having their First time. I may be just a bit biased but their hookup was a little steamy yet I wanted a bit more. Not big on Betty not telling Juggy about Barchie Kiss but I think I understand why she didn't tell him right there. They were gonna fuck and she just wanted him badly lol. Also in that scene I was reminded of Olicity from Arrow first Sexytimes a bit and Im really wanting Bughead as OTP like Olicity is so I'm hoping that was a sign lol

 

So steamy, and I absolutely loved it, and have rewatched it a few times already. Their chemistry is insane.

21 hours ago, Sonoma said:

A kiss with just anyone is not a big deal. A kiss with Archie is a bigger one. Jughead already had, maybe even still has, insecurities about her past feelings towards Archie. When they were talking about their break up in episode 2x6, he straight out told her that having Archie do it made it worse for him. Then he brought up Archie breaking up with him for her again when he confessed about Toni. So as much as I didn't like it I can see why she was hesitant about telling him.

 

10 hours ago, Ruby Red said:

On a more brighter note. Betty and Jughead scenes, the sleuthing together has always been such a great part of their dynamic! They work so well together. And Jughead letting Betty in again, telling her she is the only he could talk to about this despite the fact he broke up with  her, but he can't help it. Him opening up to her, telling her about his kiss and groping session with Toni, realizing how he has made several dumb decisions, which included breaking up with her, and yes there was not a lot of reaction from Betty about skinning Penny..  But I think it would have been a little hypocritical after what she did to Chuck, which is equally bad. So I understood her lack of an extreme response. Neither of them are angels and have done pretty bad stuff - I am not certain yet if I like it, or at least from Jughead I still prefer season 1 Jug who I don't think would ever have done such thing, but perhaps it is another way for them to understand each other... So they don't really judge each other for their more uglier aspects of their personalities. If things only had been more consistent and executed better, but oh well...

So on to Betty and Jughead's first time and what lead up to it... Yes, I was bothered with the fact that Betty lied to him and did not tell him about kissing Archie when she may have almost been ready to confess when she said, "I need to tell you something.", I can understand why she got scared of doing so. This was the same guy that she loves who has been pushing her away, who has shut her out of his life, who was now finally communicating with her again, letting her in. Who told her that he was sorry for pushing her away, shielding her from his world and his "darkness" (they really need to stop using that word) and she said "I can handle it." and how he says "I know. I know you can.", he is giving back her agency and will hopefully stop making decisions for her like this to only push her away. When Betty asked Jughead about him and Toni, he mentioned Archie again, which implies that he still is dealing with some insecurities. How it still bothers him that Betty broke up with him via Archie. So, when Jughead asks Betty to stay, it tells her he is finally letting her in again. I think she really did not want to lose that, for him to build another wall like he has before, I think the whole point of her saying, "I just want you. I want all of you." was that he is the only one she wants and that kiss with Archie doesn't matter because it's not important for it to ruin the moment. She did not want him to feel bad like how he had been venting about all his bad decisions before. I think they both really needed those moments of intimacy again, many things in the episode showed how they still love each other without even having to say another "I love you." verbally. I don't think it was unrealistic, and they are teenagers. I did wish Betty had told him before, but it seemed like they just really needed it and it looked passionate, sweet and full of longing at once. And Betty’s smile as she came home at the Cooper’s was lovely! They still have things to talk about, but they can later, hopefully.

I would have liked something more out of their first time, a longer scene and a afterglow scene of them happy together with things like, “I missed you.” Etc. but I’ll accept this one. It is clear they have missed each other and they love each other, the episode showed us all of that without telling. We have other episodes for more opportunities of such scenes.

 

The Betty and Jughead investigating in this episode gave me major season 1 flashbacks, in such a great way. And I absolutely adore how honest Jughead was with Betty about everything. He told her about he and Toni, he told her about the drug running, he told her about skinning Penny. It was so refreshing to see him open up to her so much. I am really disappointed that Betty didn't do the same, telling Jug about her webcamming and how she kissed Archie. SO dissapointed. But Ruby Red, your post above is really well-written, and made me somewhat appreciate Betty's reluctance to tell Jughead anything, especially about the kiss. But still, it made me so sad for Jughead, who opened up to Betty, and was so apologetic for breaking up with her and shutting her out, but she's hiding so much from him right now. Ugh. I just think Jughead deserves more.

7 hours ago, Ruby Red said:

Oh yeah, something else.

1. I get the impression that Betty does not know that Veronica knows about the B/A kiss. She doesn't, does she? She acted so normal with her. It will probably be brought up eventually, I am not sure if it is a good sign of their friendship if Veronica acting like everything is fine when I am sure it must bother her still... Why do the writers not care enough about their friendship?
2. Also Jughead and Archie... Who have not have a proper scene either since their one scene in 2x09. . It was weird how at the start of the episode Jughead was at Pop's, sitting by the bar while Archie was right there with that suit and they did not even look at each other. It's weird, but it may build up to something more when the B/A kiss comes to light. Maybe Archie is purposely avoiding him...

 

Yes to all of this. I miss all of the friendship scenes. Especially those between Jughead and Archie. 

6 hours ago, the-grey-lady said:

I was thrilled to see Penny back, only because I was hoping the Serpents would kick Jughead out once and for all, so we could finally be done with this Jughead-in-a-damn-gang storyline. Masterclass in parenting by FP, by the way. Gee, none of this is your fault, FP. Raising Jughead around your gang wasn't bound to have unforeseen repercussions or anything.

 

6 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I think they are actually doing an amazing job of showing what life is like for a kid with an alcoholic single parent. I do think FP was drunk in that scene. His eyes seemed unfocused. He's also furious because no matter how he tries to help him, Jug just keeps putting his foot in it. Really, that kid is his own worst enemy. He is ruining everything that FP worked hard to build. So he was pissed, he just found out that his kid took a blade to another human being with malicious intent (Jug is becoming a thug) and he's drunk so he can't control himself. It was a tense, horrible scene, but it was incredibly well done.

FP fascinates me in that I can tell he wants to do good, he wants Jug to be better than he is, he wants to give Jug the chance to get out of that life, but he also is a fucked up mess. He's an alcoholic gang leader. He's the worst possible role model and now Jug is following in his footsteps.

I think the Jughead/FP relationship is one of my favorites on this show. You can tell that FP wants a better life for Jughead, and is so proud of how smart his son is. So of course he is disappointed that Jughead is following in his footsteps, and entrenching himself SO deeply in Serpent life, even going to extremes such as cutting off Penny's tattoo. But also, Jughead wants to be closer to his father. He really got into Serpent life while FP was in jail. And I think in a weird way, he thinks that being in the Serpents will help him protect FP. Part of the reason he pulled the crap on Penny was to protect FP. I think it is so palpable how much Juggie and FP love each other, but their relationship is just so unhealthy in so many ways. Riveting to watch though.

More thoughts!:

 - As bad as I felt for Pops, I understood Poppa Poutine's freakout over the garbage poutine he was served. You do NOT mess with poutine. It has to have proper cheese curds, or it's downright offensive to try and pass it off as proper poutine...all of the maple syrup and poutine moments in this episode make hungry and even prouder to be a Canadian who understands why these things are so important. 

 - The scene where Betty and Jughead finally got it on...Jughead/Cole looked HOT in that scene. The blue shirt...the suspenders...the hair! Swoon. 

 - How nefarious Hiram and Hermoine are makes me laugh, and it makes me happy. It is so ridiculous and campy, and I love watching this zaniness unfold. 

 - We need more Cheryl and Kevin! We demand more Cheryl and Kevin! Please writers??!?!?! (And I missed Toni this episode too.)

 - FP remains the hottest dad on this show. And it turned me on a little when he called Tallboy a dumbass. 

 - Veronica WOULD wear pearls to serve meals in a soup kitchen. 

 - I like that the show reminded us about Hermoine and Fred being a thing last season, and how Hiram is still pretty pissed about it.

 - I was 13 when I had my confirmation. And I did NOT have a bumpin' confirmation afterparty like Veronica. I feel like my parents slighted me, man...

 - That last scene....the fuck?!?!?! I am actually crazy excited for the fallout from this. Was it Alice or Chic who offed this dude? And why? And holy shit, that was a lot of blood. 

Edited February 2, 2018 by AdorkableSars

[WhosThatGirl]

15 minutes ago, thefreeair said:

I wish they'd given the cam-girl story to Cheryl because I get the sense that she'd at least have fun with it. I have no idea what they are going for with Betty, though I get the sense that we are seeing a clumsy, weird declaration from the show like, "Look at how edgy we are! Aren't we edgy? We're Sexy and Edgy!" And... well no, show. I disagree. You're like if Sons of Anarchy was aired as a lifetime movie instead of an FX series. You're like if Mad Men was all Don Draper's man-pain all the time without the welcome relief of Pete-the-imp-Campbell, and Peggy sauntering into her new office with a cigarette hanging from her lips, and Roger Sterling's rapier wit. 

I mean, look no further than the Serpents nonsense for proof. What is this shit? If I have to sit through teen gang shenanigans, I need about 80% more camp and 100% less over-the-top seriousness. Because, here's the thing. The reason why Alice and Cheryl are so entertaining is that the show has designated them the de facto camp bringers, and the characters (and actors) lean right into it. And it works!

What's not working is the self-righteous outrage and brattery the rest of the cast is flinging all over the place. Even when Buffy was at its darkest, it was still bringing the situational humour and witty banter. And those kids were dealing with actual demons, so... you know. Have more fun, Riverdale! You're a teen soap, not a prestige drama on AMC. Damn.

This. You guys all put into words what I try and fail many times to do. I think you hit the nail on the head that this season the show is really trying to be something else. I think they don’t want to be considered a teen soap anymore and want to be seen as some edgy adult show. I really think the hype and buzz from the summer kind of got to the powers that be and as much as I keep hearing the second half of this season is supposed to be lighter a little bit, I’m still not thinking it will be.

[Snookums]

Quote

is Hal supposed to be this cam kid's father?

We don't know! All that's been stated/implied so far was that Alice got knocked up in high school, and under pressure from Hal, gave the baby away. It was also flat out declared by Alice that he had "made an appointment" for her--that is, tried to make her get an abortion--but she refused. I assume giving Chic up for adoption was their compromise.

What I don't understand is why in the frozen hells of the north these two are still together! Alice clearly fears/resents the hell out of Hal, and Hal is an intimidating, perhaps lethal weirdo who has a hate-on for the Blossom family and a kind of sick obsession with Polly. And this loving duo apparently run the local paper! They're never away from each other until recently. Why they haven't just gone full on War of the Roses before now is a mystery.

[Dobian]

One of the biggest problems I have with Hiram Lodge is the way the show makes him out to be J.R. Ewing with his mansion and cars and high society connections.  So let's analyze Lodge "Industries" various holdings.  Well, there's a drive-in movie, a diner, and a high school.  The drive-in and the high school are going to provide the land to build stuff, but the diner is a really big income generator I guess.  McDonald's has nothing on Pops!  And what's the real estate value in this shit-hole town anyway?  I'm pretty sure I could have bought up the diner and the drive-in lol.  Of course he's a mobster, duh, with connections to other big-time mobsters.  Like the guy with the Canadian (?) hotdog chain.  Huh?  Tony Soprano wouldn't hire this guy to deliver the liquor to the Bada Bing lol.

[thuganomics85]

Jughead wins understatement of the night with his "I cut her" remark about what he did to Penny.  Although, I guess I can understand why he didn't want to tell Betty "Me and a bunch of Southside Serpents totally drug her to the woods, and then I took a knife and cut off her serpent tattoo."  Granted, it's not like I'm going to throw Penny a pity party, but lets not pretend it was a minor thing, Jughead.

Speaking of Penny, her "return" really seem insignificant, since she was only around for one scene and now any chance of her rejoining the gang is gone, now that they know it was Tall Boy who cut of the head, by order/suggestion of the Lodges.  I guess she could still factor in later on, but basically felt like a waste to bring Brit Morgan back for this one.

Sometimes I think Skeet Ulrich thinks he's one a different show, because his performance is almost miles better then everyone else's at times (not to say that they're bad or anything, but everyone else seems to know this is cheese and have fun with it.)  Props for giving it his all though.

Won't even touch on the Betty being a cam girl, since I think it basically boils down to the writers forgetting she's actually a teenager and this is way less sexy and more creepy.

All the stuff with Veronica's Confirmation owned me.  Oh, sure, almost all of it was ridiculous, but I loved every minute of it.  I loved seeing M.C. Gainey as a rival who wanted to put down Hiram because he thinks he's weak, only to get taken out after Archie rats him out (and, of course, Archie is shocked by this, because I guess he thought Hiram was just going to give him a stern warning or send him to his room without any supper.)  Loved the hilariously, awkward duet between Veronica and Josie, due to Josie clearly losing her soul at one point and just doing her mom's bidding (or she's secretly a robot this entire time and has been reprogrammed.  Wouldn't be that far-fetch, to be fair.)  And, of course, all of Veronica's concern for Archie getting "into deep", because it really came off like she was treating him less like her boyfriend and more like a kid/dog, and she was concerned Archie was going to break a lamp or mess up the floor, and didn't want Hiram to smack him on the nose with a newspaper.  She really doesn't think to highly of his intelligence, does she?  Smart girl.  But, hey, Camila Mendes was looking extra gorgeous in this one (those arms!)

I know the reasons why she wasn't there, but I would have so loved Cheryl to crash the Confirmation.  I can only imagine the snark, one-liners, and inappropriateness that she would have brought!  Hell, toss Reggie in there too because you knew he would have really made it a party.  I bet Veronica's grandmother would be a blast on Jingle Jangle!

Of course, Hiram would hear about Archie beating the shit out of a bed-ridden Nick, and just get a hard-on over it.  You're messed up, Hiram!

Betty and Jughead rekindle the flame and even get a sexy scene out of it!  Which, of course, means the episode ends with her coming back home and seeing Alice in front of a dead body that Chic is likely responsible for.  Classic Riverdale!

[paulvdb]

7 hours ago, SourK said:

My favorite detail is how specific Veronica was when she said, "Do you know 'Bittersweet Symphony' from the movie Cruel Intentions?" Was it a roundabout way of saying Josie would get her comeuppance or was it a plug for the movie Cruel Intentions? Who knows!

I assumed that it was more for the viewers who might be familiar with the movie but might not know the title of the song.

[Affogato]

On 1/31/2018 at 9:02 PM, Advance35 said:

 

Those Lodges, I love the way the sun reflects off their scales when they coil. LOL.  So it's ACTUAL crime that the Lodge family is involved in.  I notice Hermione seems serpentine even when amongst her own.  That say's a lot.  And by the way, the Jacket she wore to Veronica's confirmation was flawless.

Excellent image, the sun reflecting off their scales. 

40 minutes ago, paulvdb said:

I assumed that it was more for the viewers who might be familiar with the movie but might not know the title of the song.

I needed it. 

[Affogato]

5 hours ago, Dobian said:

One of the biggest problems I have with Hiram Lodge is the way the show makes him out to be J.R. Ewing with his mansion and cars and high society connections.  So let's analyze Lodge "Industries" various holdings.  Well, there's a drive-in movie, a diner, and a high school.  The drive-in and the high school are going to provide the land to build stuff, but the diner is a really big income generator I guess.  McDonald's has nothing on Pops!  And what's the real estate value in this shit-hole town anyway?  I'm pretty sure I could have bought up the diner and the drive-in lol.  Of course he's a mobster, duh, with connections to other big-time mobsters.  Like the guy with the Canadian (?) hotdog chain.  Huh?  Tony Soprano wouldn't hire this guy to deliver the liquor to the Bada Bing lol.

I assume he owns other stuff. This is like buying a house in his old hometown, right? Maybe even so Veronica can have a normal high school experience. The hot and cold running gangs and drug dealing and child porn are local amenities. 

[Affogato]

I really liked betty’s Mother banging in betty’s Door  “You know how I hate a locked door. “ like mother, like daughter. 

Theyve tried to make Betty’s forays into the dark side a little tentative and awkward. Lying to mom. Covering up. The stripper scene earlier. 

I am not sure dark Betty is mental Illness  in the tv schizophrenia sense. She may be just very — suggestible? 

[Mabinogia]

11 hours ago, Sonoma said:

I just want to see more of the smart investigative duo and beautiful sweet couple. I'm sure they'll have more rocky moments ahead once they've been happy for a while, but I hope it never gets that depressingly bad again.

So much this. I don't expect they will never have troubles but I just want them working through it together, not both spiraling so far out of control this turns into some teen version of Sopranos, wait that's Veronica's storyline. Jugs is Sons of Anarchy and Betty's is every teen based life time movie of the last 5 years.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

So much this. I don't expect they will never have troubles but I just want them working through it together, not both spiraling so far out of control this turns into some teen version of Sopranos, wait that's Veronica's storyline. Jugs is Sons of Anarchy and Betty's is every teen based life time movie of the last 5 years.

Yeah. I just think like others have noted, this keeps forgetting how old these characters are. 

[Dobian]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

So much this. I don't expect they will never have troubles but I just want them working through it together, not both spiraling so far out of control this turns into some teen version of Sopranos, wait that's Veronica's storyline. Jugs is Sons of Anarchy and Betty's is every teen based life time movie of the last 5 years.

Yeah Jugs of Anarchy.  Even Tig couldn't save this wretched storyline.

[Mabinogia]

4 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Yeah Jugs of Anarchy.

That sounds like a biker themed porno. hahahahah

[MaggieG]

On 2/1/2018 at 1:24 AM, Snookums said:

I love how Hal is the one who's actually making the good point but Alice is the one who's all yeah but YOU'RE A SCUMMY JERKFACE and she just wins everything. 

When Betty walked in at the end and saw the blood, I panicked for a second thinking Alice had died and I screamed "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" Alice is the best and she can't go anywhere.

[buffy11bnl]

On 2/1/2018 at 1:32 AM, UNOSEZ said:

So... Betty thinks it's OK to strip in front of grown men and her mom.. And be a cam girl but almost killed Chuck for posting a puc of Veronica with some syrup or pancakes.. I kinda forget now... Hmmm allright riverdale

Betty made the decision to do the striptease on her own (even if it was a stupid ass decision) Chuck posted that picture of Veronica without her knowledge or consent and changed the image to imply they had been sexually involved - they are 2 completely different situations.

[Dobian]

1 hour ago, MaggieG said:

When Betty walked in at the end and saw the blood, I panicked for a second thinking Alice had died and I screamed "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" Alice is the best and she can't go anywhere.

Alice, Betty, and Cheryl are the only indispensable characters on the show.  Alice because she's campy great, Betty because she's smoking hot and just crazy enough to be fun, and Cheryl because she is just plain crazy.

[Mabinogia]

17 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Alice, Betty, and Cheryl are the only indispensable characters on the show.  Alice because she's campy great, Betty because she's smoking hot and just crazy enough to be fun, and Cheryl because she is just plain crazy.

You just gave me my dream spinoff. The kids graduate from Riverdale High and Cheryl and Betty end up at the same college. Alice, being the crazy protective mother she is, ends up following her daughter to the college and becomes the house mother for the sorority Betty and Cheryl both join. Craziness ensues.

Oh, and FP is the handyman who does odd jobs around the sorority house and eases Alice's sexual tension when necessary.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Mabinogia
Can't forget FP

[secnarf]

On 1/31/2018 at 10:15 PM, emcmac87 said:

So I'm only 10 minutes in, but it seems they are implying Catholisicsm with Veronica.  My "grandfather" ( his brother died early so he stepped in) was a priest so I've tried to be accurate with my info. Confirmation happens around 16-18years old, because the point is that you are making your own choice to be a member of the church. First communion is done around age 8( when u can receive the Eucharist) and that's when everyone wears diff white dresses  Prob wrote too much about this. 

But weird they changed confirmation when it was actually correct for their characters timeline. 

Well, I guess it depends. I grew up Catholic, and Confirmation - even dating back to my parents' in the sixties - has always been around 12-14, in grade 7-8. Mine was when I was 13, in grade 8. You are allegedly old enough to make the decision on your own as an "adult" but young enough that they can still ensure everybody gets confirmed whether they want to or not. It's done through school - Catholic kids are much more likely to go to Catholic elementary school than they are to go to a Catholic high school, and also anybody of any religion can go to a Catholic high school. It's logistically easier to organize confirmation through the elementary schools, same as for first communion/reconciliation.

So, I don't think the show "changed confirmation". I wouldn't call this an error - it's probably just regional differences. At any rate, the BBC states that the typical age of confirmation for Catholics is 14. The Vatican allows it as long as the child has reached the "age of reason" (~7 years old). I'm sure in some places, Confirmation is traditionally later on in the teenage years, but that doesn't mean that is typical, or that any other age is wrong.
 

[Dobian]

9 minutes ago, secnarf said:

Well, I guess it depends. I grew up Catholic, and Confirmation - even dating back to my parents' in the sixties - has always been around 12-14, in grade 7-8. Mine was when I was 13, in grade 8.

I was 14 and in eighth grade when I was confirmed.  And no there were no hot girls singing pop hits at the altar during the ceremony.

[Mabinogia]

9 minutes ago, Dobian said:

And no there were no hot girls singing pop hits at the altar during the ceremony.

And when you returned home from your first sexual encounter I doubt your mom was on her hands and knees scrubbing some dead guys blood off the floor. We cannot judge our lives by Riverdale. Our lives will always pale in comparison. HAHAHA

I could be wrong though. Maybe that did happen to you. If it did, I'm not judging. I'll just go fill the loneliness by donning a wig and chatting guys up on the internet to tap into my dark side. Or I could start a tattoo removal business. Jughead taught me all I need to know about tattoo removal. This is an educational show. ;)

[Snookums]

I've learned TONS about acquiring real estate!

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

And when you returned home from your first sexual encounter I doubt your mom was on her hands and knees scrubbing some dead guys blood off the floor. We cannot judge our lives by Riverdale. Our lives will always pale in comparison. HAHAHA

I could be wrong though. Maybe that did happen to you. If it did, I'm not judging. I'll just go fill the loneliness by donning a wig and chatting guys up on the internet to tap into my dark side. Or I could start a tattoo removal business. Jughead taught me all I need to know about tattoo removal. This is an educational show. ;)

Or simply go for a ‘walk in the woods’. :-)

[Mabinogia]

28 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Or simply go for a ‘walk in the woods’. :-)

Now you've gone too far! I would never be caught dead in those woods, or Sweet Water River for that matter.

[PeekaBoo]

17 hours ago, SourK said:

My favorite detail is how specific Veronica was when she said, "Do you know 'Bittersweet Symphony' from the movie Cruel Intentions?" Was it a roundabout way of saying Josie would get her comeuppance or was it a plug for the movie Cruel Intentions? Who knows!

Ok late on the comments, but I was mildly offended when they just referred to it as "that"  song from Cruel Intentions!! -.- Oh hell no... Great to reference a great 90s teen movie but to relegate a great song to that song... hell no lol lol....

16 hours ago, AdorkableSars said:

Bahahahahah!! I actually burst into raucous laughter at this scene. "Was he..........tall?"

Me too!!! I was like Oh come one, really?!? Couldn't he have gone with long greasy hair beardo guy with a grudge?!?! lol...

Quote

The Betty and Jughead investigating in this episode gave me major season 1 flashbacks, in such a great way. And I absolutely adore how honest Jughead was with Betty about everything. He told her about he and Toni, he told her about the drug running, he told her about skinning Penny. It was so refreshing to see him open up to her so much. I am really disappointed that Betty didn't do the same, telling Jug about her webcamming and how she kissed Archie. SO dissapointed. But Ruby Red, your post above is really well-written, and made me somewhat appreciate Betty's reluctance to tell Jughead anything, especially about the kiss. But still, it made me so sad for Jughead, who opened up to Betty, and was so apologetic for breaking up with her and shutting her out, but she's hiding so much from him right now. Ugh. I just think Jughead deserves more.

Well, we've got handed a lot of details about the future eps so they seems to be going steady but the last bit you wrote is also relevant... I've been thinking about their reconciliation and although it's great and amazing, they are finally together, it's a bit sad to, just because Betty hasn't come clean yet... She had that opportunity but she (very wisely and understandably) omitted to say anything back... So it's a bit sad... But we have the next episodes, the cabin episode and maybe in bit the truth will come out and they can go on from there.... If Betty doesn't say anything, then yeah... A bit unfair towards Jughead...

Quote

I think the Jughead/FP relationship is one of my favorites on this show. You can tell that FP wants a better life for Jughead, and is so proud of how smart his son is. So of course he is disappointed that Jughead is following in his footsteps, and entrenching himself SO deeply in Serpent life, even going to extremes such as cutting off Penny's tattoo. But also, Jughead wants to be closer to his father. He really got into Serpent life while FP was in jail. And I think in a weird way, he thinks that being in the Serpents will help him protect FP. Part of the reason he pulled the crap on Penny was to protect FP. I think it is so palpable how much Juggie and FP love each other, but their relationship is just so unhealthy in so many ways. Riveting to watch though.

This!!!

They are just as adorable and sweet together  as Fred + ARchie, they have the same kind of bond even if its very dysfunctional.. I feel bad for both of them because they really do love one another but all the screwy things that come between them just splits them apart and cause so much damage... sigh...

Quote

 - As bad as I felt for Pops, I understood Poppa Poutine's freakout over the garbage poutine he was served. You do NOT mess with poutine. It has to have proper cheese curds, or it's downright offensive to try and pass it off as proper poutine...all of the maple syrup and poutine moments in this episode make hungry and even prouder to be a Canadian who understands why these things are so important. 

I am with you girl!! Never fancied poutine until I moved from Canada but I still knew about the proper cheese curds!! lol!!

Quote

 - I like that the show reminded us about Hermoine and Fred being a thing last season, and how Hiram is still pretty pissed about it. 

 

One thing I was wondering and correct me if i'm wrong but they (hiram + evil mobsters) were alluding that Fred and Hermione slept together right? But they never showed that on the show (except that make out scene in ep6?)... I'm surprised Hiram is even doing any business with Fred when it's soooooo bad to have some guy sleeping with your girl... I don't get that!!

 

Oh and I haven't gotten that thing on the confirmation thing.. I was 11-13 when I got confirmed (5th grade) which was usual at the time (early 90s), don't know if its still the same today... In the part of the world where I live they usually do it around 15-16 but then the majority are Lutherans... fyi...

Edited February 2, 2018 by PeekaBoo

[CletusMusashi]

So what happens, anyway, if you're convicted of decapitating the town statue? Do you have to move to Shelbyville?

[Ruby Red]

17 hours ago, AdorkableSars said:

But still, it made me so sad for Jughead, who opened up to Betty, and was so apologetic for breaking up with her and shutting her out, but she's hiding so much from him right now. Ugh. I just think Jughead deserves more.

 

 

I do agree, Jughead does deserve more, he should know and especially considering their history and his insecurities. I don't like that Betty lied either, but I can understand how it may have been like twisting the knife a little when Jughead mentioned how she broke up with him via Archie and if she had gone like, "Oh yeah... About that... I kissed him." - even if he understands the situation and doesn't hold it against her, it clearly still lowkey bothers him and I think she is aware of that. The second time, I can understand why as he was opening up to her again and they were kissing and I get why she chickened out. Jughead is more important than a kiss that I meant nothing or at least very little to her. I still think it was a beautiful scene and you could tell  how much they still want each other, so it doesn't really ruin the scene for me but yes, it would have been more perfect if she had not lied before so they both would had been completely honest and not just Jug. But her love for him is not a lie, I think that was the point of the "I just want you. I want all of you." line.

I am not sure how they will have Jughead react to it when he finds out, one of the reasons why this Betty/Archie kiss was so unnecessary and I don't like it is that it does not do any good for Jughead's insecurities. Hope Betty can justify herself and be honest with him when it comes up. But still, it stings and especially considering she lied when he asked if she had been with anyone since their break up. Even if it was just a small kiss, it probably still would cause Jughead to have doubts about Betty's feelings for him - or at least in the real world, you would have doubts. But maybe he'd be more bothered by the lie than the actual kiss, she has shown she loves him many times. 

[UNOSEZ]

I'm just waiting for battle lines to be drawn.. Veronica has Archie prob reggie and various other minor school characters... The pussycats(probably Josie against her will but still)  and on the other side jug has Betty all the serpents probably Cheryl.. Tho if they pick up her obsession with josie maybe she's on team veronica tho she could just fall for toni as some predicted plus it was her family that wronged toni's... Kevin us kinda hard to pin down.. Tho the secret that his dad and josies mom are out and abt together could blow everything else up.. And the barchie kiss stilk has to drop on jug.. Lotta options.. 

 

Side note.. The actor who plays Chuck was shot on black lightning and murdered on Beyond.. He's also been hunted and almost killed a few times on the tv show freakish on hulu... So... I guess young ladies ( who tend to be the biggest audiences for shows like those)  must really enjoy seeing him suffer

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, Ruby Red said:

 

I do agree, Jughead does deserve more, he should know and especially considering their history and his insecurities. I don't like that Betty lied either, but I can understand how it may have been like twisting the knife a little when Jughead mentioned how she broke up with him via Archie and if she had gone like, "Oh yeah... About that... I kissed him." - even if he understands the situation and doesn't hold it against her, it clearly still lowkey bothers him and I think she is aware of that. The second time, I can understand why as he was opening up to her again and they were kissing and I get why she chickened out. Jughead is more important than a kiss that I meant nothing or at least very little to her. I still think it was a beautiful scene and you could tell  how much they still want each other, so it doesn't really ruin the scene for me but yes, it would have been more perfect if she had not lied before so they both would had been completely honest and not just Jug. But her love for him is not a lie, I think that was the point of the "I just want you. I want all of you." line.

I am not sure how they will have Jughead react to it when he finds out, one of the reasons why this Betty/Archie kiss was so unnecessary and I don't like it is that it does not do any good for Jughead's insecurities. Hope Betty can justify herself and be honest with him when it comes up. But still, it stings and especially considering she lied when he asked if she had been with anyone since their break up. Even if it was just a small kiss, it probably still would cause Jughead to have doubts about Betty's feelings for him - or at least in the real world, you would have doubts. But maybe he'd be more bothered by the lie than the actual kiss, she has shown she loves him many times. 

Yeah. I’m really worried about Jugheads reaction because he gave her time to tell the truth. I really hope it isn’t a big thing. And that’s what I mean when we get really great Bughead moments that I am always waiting for the other shoe to drop with this pairing.

[Ruby Red]

3 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah. I’m really worried about Jugheads reaction because he gave her time to tell the truth. I really hope it isn’t a big thing. And that’s what I mean when we get really great Bughead moments that I am always waiting for the other shoe to drop with this pairing.

Well, I don't think he is going to break up with her over one little kiss, but it would provide some angst...

[UNOSEZ]

7 minutes ago, Ruby Red said:

I do agree, Jughead does deserve more, he should know and especially considering their history and his insecurities. I don't like that Betty lied either, but I can understand how it may have been like twisting the knife a little when Jughead mentioned how she broke up with him via Archie and if she had gone like, "Oh yeah... About that... I kissed him." - even if he understands the situation and doesn't hold it against her, it clearly still lowkey bothers him and I think she is aware of that. The second time, I can understand why as he was opening up to her again and they were kissing and I get why she chickened out. Jughead is more important than a kiss that I meant nothing or at least very little to her. I still think it was a beautiful scene and you could tell  how much they still want each other, so it doesn't really ruin the scene for me but yes, it would have been more perfect if she had not lied before so they both would had been completely honest and not just Jug. But her love for him is not a lie, I think that was the point of the "I just want you. I want all of you." line

Hmm double standard alert... All that is the nice way of saying... Betty knew she dis wrong... But wanted to have sex.. If she said what she did.. They wouldn't have.. And hey.. More power to Betty for being laser focused on what she wants.. But this flowery talk of love being more than some kiss doesn't cut it... 

 

Betty is already dating the best friend of the guy she had been pining over forever.. She knows jug has some inferiority issues abt a great many things including Archie in general and Archie/Betty specifically I thinks he's made it known he's terrified that if Archie wanted betty would run to him.. Now maybe this kiss really meant nothing to Betty but I'm damn sure she knows it means a ton to jughead.. And if/when it's revealed and she pulls out some thing along the lines of "did it to protect you or it meant nada".. I hope I see the same outrage had the tables been turned 

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah. The more I think about it, while I liked the scene and it was good, I wish Betty had told him and they talked it out, instead of having sex right now. I feel like this is just going to lead to more Unnecessary tension. Not a breakup but tension that we don’t need. 

Then again I wish both kisses with Jughead and Toni and Archie and Betty never happened. The Toni one with Jughead feels like the most random thing ever and it’s clearly going nowhere. I don’t know why they even did it and the Barchie kiss, I hope is going nowhere but I don’t know. I don’t really trust anything with these writers anymore. I’m always waiting for them to break up Bughead now because of what they’ve been doing this entire season so far.

Edited February 2, 2018 by WhosThatGirl