Continuity, Nitpicks, Unanswered Questions and Timeline Headaches: When Did That Honeycrisp Apple Come From

[Camera One]

I can't recall so I was wondering.. could they say that the events in "Once Upon a Time in Wonderland" haven't happened yet?  To explain why Will is in Storybrooke?

 

 

I don't see how without completely axing the timeline.  OUATiW started in season 2 of OUAT--the episode with the wraith and the storm, I believe.  Rabbit came and got Will from Granny's diner during the storm.  OUATiW took place over a fairly short period of time, and while the epilogue scenes  could easily have taken place quite a bit later, the actual main events of the story should have all taken place before Henry was whisked off to Neverland.

 

I did notice something on my rewatch.  (Well, partial rewatch.  There were certain scenes I did choose to not subject myself to again.)  We've joked about Hook's true love being the floor.  Technically, Emma and the Floor both cheated on Hook this episode.  With each other.  I haven't decided yet if he'd be upset about that, or just make a suggestive remark.

 

I was wondering... could it have been just a random stormy night?  Or did it necessarily have to be the Wraith night.  I know the writers said that, but we never saw a Wraith onscreen.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Camera One

[Mari]

You know, I can't say that I recall specific details that would tie them to the original timeline if they decided to make changes.  If I recall correctly, a couple of Storybrookers saw Will, they talked about the nasty weather, and after they left Will broke into Granny's, where the Rabbit found him.

 

Unless there's details I've forgotten, they could easily decide it was random stormy Tuesday, instead of their original plan.

 

That in itself could be interesting--Storybrooke Knave didn't have his heart.  He'd hidden it in a wall inside his apartment.

[Camera One]

I vaguely remember in the original previews/trailer/upfront video, they used footage from the Wraith night.  But in the actual Pilot episode, I don't remember seeing any Wraiths.  I do recall Grumpy and Ashley were locking up Granny's diner when Will stole the key from them and broke in.

 

From the way Will was acting (breaking into tents and stores during the blackout) in "Rocky Road", he was acting like Will from the beginning of the "Wonderland" series.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Camera One

[Mathius]

No, A&E and Michael Socha have both confirmed Will is here after the events of OUATIW and has his heart back in his chest. He's acting like a thief because he still is one; he's the White King in the far future when Alice and Cyrus have a kid, but right now he's still a thief.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Mathius

[InsertWordHere]

Yes, Camera One and Mari, that's my recollection as well. They deliberately edited out anything that placed it as occurring during a specific OUaT episode. Will did get almost run over by Emma's bug, so it has to have happened when Emma was in town (not in EF or Neverland) but after the Curse broke (although they never actually stated that Will was cursed or came over with the Curse, from what I recall), unless someone (Henry!) was taking Emma's bug for a joyride when she was gone.

[ShadowFacts]

On Wonderland when Alice went to his apartment looking for his heart, I seem to remember a lot of boxes in the place, looking like he had moved in or was moving out?  If moving out, how and where (and why with his heart still in the wall?), and if just moving in, how and from where?  It would suggest he didn't come in the curse.  Or did everybody who was cursed into Storybrooke arrive with their stuff in boxes?  It seemed odd. 

[Camera One]

What were Agenda Items #1-3?  How many items were there in total?  Who helped Snow come up with these items?  

 

What are Snow's plans as Mayor going forward?  Any thought to finding a way back to the Enchanted Forest?  

 

Would they lose their memories if they crossed the Town Line (once again a moot point since the way out is barred, since it was patrolled by Flying Monkeys in 3B).  Is Storybrooke masked to the world?  

 

Did Arendelle get carried along on Curses?  I am presuming not?  So that's why Elsa is not worried about Kristoff, since she assumes he's still in Arendelle?  Or are they assuming the people of Arendelle are in Storybrooke?

 

Why did the Snow Queen choose Marion specifically to become iced?  

[Camera One]

How many days elapsed between the end of "White Out" and "Rocky Road".  I remember someone mentioned "several days" in the episode, but I don't remember if that was referring to since Episode 1 or since the last episode.

[retrograde]

Why did the Snow Queen choose Marion specifically to become iced?  

She was looking to set Elsa up, and I think Marion was probably just the first person who happened to come in who had also been fighting the snow monster.

[Camera One]

This is clearly Emma's fault since she provoked the Snow Monster and led it in the vicinity of Robin and Marion's camp.  I don't get the "provoking" thing with the Snow Monster either.  So if Emma and Hook had left it alone and stopped running, it would have walked off and disappeared?  

[KAOS Agent]

Hook questioned how Elsa knew Emma so well after a few short days, so I'd assume it would refer to being a few days after the events of "White Out" since that's when Emma & Elsa met.

[Camera One]

Thanks.  So Grumpy didn't follow up on the truck icing for a couple of days?  Grumpy and Granny didn't talk to Emma, Snow or Charming for a few days?  

[kili]

She was looking to set Elsa up, and I think Marion was probably just the first person who happened to come in who had also been fighting the snow monster.

 

Robin got his ice cream first and he was kind of fighting the ice monster (well, he was standing there while others did things).

 

So if Emma and Hook had left it alone and stopped running, it would have walked off and disappeared?

 

They did figure it out pretty quickly. It was Grumpy that got the Marshmallow all riled up with his yelling to incite a stampede. Nevertheless, Marshmallow did walk off. It was just Marion's usual luck that the Snow Monster made a bee-line for her encampment. Little John fired an arrow at him which got him mad and then Emma tried magic and it was on like Donkey Kong.

 

My question is why Regina showed up. She was in her vault chatting with Sidney and suddenly she's in the middle of the woods. Her vault is closer to the town than the Merry Men Camp. Was she going to meet Robin? Does she just like walking in the woods in high heels? Did she hear Marshmallow as he walked past?

[Camera One]

Interesting.  If you run away from it, though, why would it follow if it just wants to be left alone?  

[myril]

I doubt that they would wait that long. Maybe a day went by, so Emma had a day to recover from freezing nearly to dead, and word about ice wall around town could spread. Grumpy ran in no time with Granny and Happy for Snow when electricity was gone, so they can't tell me, now they would have waited for days and some meeting offered by Mayor White. Actually I would have expected this to have happened right the next day if it weren't for Hook's remark.

[myril]

Why did the Snow Queen choose Marion specifically to become iced?  

 

Didn't think much about it while watching, but it was mentioned, that Roland had gotten ice cream with Regina, so Diary Queen must have seen Roland, Robin and Regina together before. If her shop is any popular by people, Diary Queen might as well have heard a few things, and it sounded like that, when she greeted Marian. When Diary Queen said "Seeing a happy family like yours in here really warms my heart" it was such a lie, not just because Diary Queen might not have much of a thing for non-magical happy families but she very likely knew, this was not an all happy family. She could count on the street mob Grumpy and Company to first jump at Elsa, and if not her, then suspect Regina, but certainly not the sweet, friendly ice cream vendor (unless you've watched horror movies and crimes shows and know, the ice cream truck is a place of evil, and suspect an ice cream shop could be as well). Not to mention how much more evil to hurt a mother who just returned to her family. 

[Camera One]

I'm curious by the end of 4B, if these actions will make sense.  Especially if she's not evil and just misunderstood.  Sorry, I must go weep in a tissue at her impending sob story.

[Dani-Ellie]

Should we assume that a crew from like, Storybrooke Light & Power repaired the utility lines by the ice wall? It can't be cost-effective to run an entire town on emergency generator power indefinitely (refueling those suckers is expensive) and can you imagine the mob the citizens would form when that electric bill arrives? ;)

[Camera One]

If this is like most shows, the electricity problem is over and we're supposed to forget about it now.  More interesting is if the town had to live without electricity (as mentioned by others, these Enchanted Forest people should be used to it), and that gives Snow, Emma, Charming even more challenges to ruling the town, which could give them better storylines.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Camera One

[Camera One]

Why does Gold/Rumple drive in Storybrooke?

 

Why didn't Gold/Rumple apparate himself to Arendelle, turn into a fly, wait 'til Anna was out of the room, grab the Mickey Mouse box and return to the Enchanted Forest?  

 

Does Elsa's dress wash itself or is there a special dry ice cleaning method that she uses to keep it sparkling clean.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Camera One

[ShadowFacts]

 

Does Elsa's dress wash itself or is there a special dry ice cleaning method that she uses to keep it sparkling clean.

Edited by Camera One, Today. 12:54 am.

 

Dry ice, ha.  That has to be it.  I wonder why they don't vary the costume a little and put a stunning cape over it?  I guess the cold really doesn't bother her.

[HoodlumSheep]

What caused Neverland to go permanently nighty? Was it the loss of magic, or because of Pan's evilness?

[Amerilla]

But it is the weirdness of this show that Belle calls Emma - the woman now dating the man who shot Belle in the back and spent maybe 12 hot minutes in custody before being allowed to wander off and nearly kill Belle's now-husband - for her law enforcement needs. And that passes for normal in this little burg.

In fairness to Belle, it was Deputy Charming that allowed Hook to wander off while Emma was extorted to go on a road-trip with Belle's now-husband, so Emma may be the Sheriff she trusts more for her law enforcement needs. And she did marry the guy who nearly beat her own father to death because he thought her father had stolen a broken tea cup (a crime for which Rumple spent 6 minutes in jail for), so she's pretty forgiving, anyway.

This all brings up a question: what do the people of Storybrooke look for in law enforcement in the post-Curse era?

In S1, it seems like there was a semi-functioning justice system - at least in that people who committed or were suspected of having committed crimes and were investigated and/or arrested for it. Gold used the threat of calling the police on Ashley to get Emma in a position to owe him one. Hansel and Gretel were accused of shoplifting candy, which gets Deputy Emma to help find their father before they end up getting stuck in foster are. Gold actually was charged with his assault on Mo French (who may not have taken the teacup but did rob Gold's house), and making those charges go away was the catalyst for Gold and Regina working to get Mary Margaret accused of murdering Kathryn. And so on.

Clearly, the idea was that non-magical Regina and Gold were leveraging the Land Without Magic's concept of law and order to make up for the fact that they couldn't smite each other with fireballs, with the twist that The Savior came in to be The Sheriff, but that dosen't really explain why even the good guys largely gave up on the concept of enforcing general laws after magic returned in S2-S3.

Moe French hires Smee to kidnap Belle and the two of them handcuff her to a cart, which is assault. Albert Spencer/King George murders Billy and frames Ruby in Child of the Moon and is never heard from again. Anton threatens to kill David and rampages through town in Tiny, but even when he's smallified and can be held, all that happens is that he ends up being the World's Biggest Dwarf. Gold beats the crap out of Hook and Nottingham and knocks Whale around and nobody says nothing to nobody. Cora certainly didn't die of natural causes, with Gold and Snow and Regina all involved in making that particular bit of magic happen. The Darling Hipsters hold a gun on Ariel and Belle and rob the store, and...that's it. Zelena's this huge Big Bad who did pretty horrible things to almost everyone in Emma's orbit, but she's left unguarded in a cell overnight? Ecetera.

Not to rag on Hook, but the dude racked up a serious list of felonies in S2. He held Archie captive, menaced Belle in the library, conspired with Smee to rob Gold's shop, threatened Belle with a deadly weapon, shot Belle with said deadly weapon, walked out of police custody, assaulted David, stabbed and poisoned Gold and helped Tamara and Greg kidnap and torture Regina. These were not hidden crimes, like the things Regina and Gold often - Hook told Emma flat-out that he shot Belle, she saw him stab Gold, Archie and Regina certainly wouldn't have had trouble picking him out of a line-up. But the moment he becomes useful to the Nevengers, all these crimes vanish from the story, mentioned in passing, if at all.

It's no so much that there are obvious complications about charging "fairy tale" characters with real-world crimes, or that characters like Cora or Regina or Rumpel deserve anything they get, or that the main characters have simply decided that frontier justice is really the only way to manage the post-curse community. It's that the very concept of justice or atonement for crimes never seems to cross the minds of anyone anymore.

How does the average Storybrookian feel about any of this? Does it just feel like home? Was the EF really that dystopian? Do Storybrooke TV stations play only "Doomsday Prepper" marathons and old Disney flicks? Do they even bother to call the sheriff's office when things happen? Is there still a court system? Are Emma and David the entire police force, and they'll get around to looking into your petty little domestic assault or armed robbery if they have a moment between making goo-goo eyes at their babies/boyfriends and flopping around trying to find the Big Bad du Jure? Can you just drive naked and drunk down Main Street at 2 in the afternoon and there's little or no chance of getting arrested?

I don't even care if the answer to all these questions are "yes," I'm just curious about the parameters of the world.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Amerilla

[ShadowFacts]

That enumeration of Hook's crimes is one reason I don't get into the big ship. Emma should have someone better. As to who gets some measure of law enforcement, Mr. Will Scarlett is detained for breaking and entering. While violent offenders walk, as you say, Amerilla, he's in for the high crime of ruining Emma's date. Priorities.

[Dani-Ellie]

I'm not so sure this is a continuity issue, but I certainly have a big nit to pick with this "find the author of the book" storyline: I have zero idea what Regina is expecting to accomplish. I mean, I get what she's doing, but I have no clue why she thinks it's going to work.

 

Even if I assume that she doesn't grasp that the book is a record of events and not a work of fiction, let's look at the book for a second. If I recall correctly, Henry pulled the last couple of pages of the book out because that was the part with baby Emma. As far as we know, nothing following the arrival of the first curse made it into the book. So, by that logic, doesn't the book end with Regina getting her happy ending anyway? I mean, yeah, there's the little glimmer of hope with baby Emma escaping, but at the end of the book, Regina freakin' won. The curse whisked everyone to the new land, the end.

 

So even if she believes some mystical author out there is handing out the happy endings, by Regina's own logic, Mystical Author already handed her hers. She even said it herself in response to Snow's question as to why she was doing this: "Because this is my happy ending." The fact that it ultimately wasn't her happy ending isn't Mystical Author's fault. But Mystical Author already ended the "story" with Regina winning, so, wtf, Regina??

 

(And honestly, I get that this is just more Regina ridiculousness, but it's really freakin' trying my patience because it makes zero sense, even for Regina.)

Edited October 21, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[angelwoody]

I'm not so sure this is a continuity issue, but I certainly have a big nit to pick with this "find the author of the book" storyline: I have zero idea what Regina is expecting to accomplish. I mean, I get what she's doing, but I have no clue why she thinks it's going to work.

 

Even if I assume that she doesn't grasp that the book is a record of events and not a work of fiction, let's look at the book for a second. If I recall correctly, Henry pulled the last couple of pages of the book out because that was the part with baby Emma. As far as we know, nothing following the arrival of the first curse made it into the book. So, by that logic, doesn't the book end with Regina getting her happy ending anyway? I mean, yeah, there's the little glimmer of hope with baby Emma escaping, but at the end of the book, Regina freakin' won. The curse whisked everyone to the new land, the end.

 

So even if she believes some mystical author out there is handing out the happy endings, by Regina's own logic, Mystical Author already handed her hers. She even said it herself in response to Snow's question as to why she was doing this: "Because this is my happy ending." So, wtf, Regina??

 

(And honestly, I get that this is just more Regina ridiculousness, but it's really freakin' trying my patience because it makes zero sense, even for Regina.)

I'm right there with you!  

 

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I recall, the book doesn't record events in Storybrook.  Even when it reappeared after the 2nd curse, it didn't anything in Storybrook.  So, how does Regina plan on making "The Author" give her a happy ending in Storybrook?  If such a thing is even possible (which it shouldn't be).  

 

And why hasn't Henry thought to ask Regina what exactly constitutes a happy ending for her?  If he was being written in character, he would be concerned about the ramifications of this quest instead of enthusiastically supporting it.  What does she want?  Once upon a time (haha) it was Snow's death.  Then she tried to kill baby Emma.  Then it was the curse (Snow & David being separated and everyone else not knowing who they really were).  Then it was baby Henry.  Then it was keeping the curse from being broken and getting rid of Emma.  Now it's apparently...  What exactly?

[Camera One]

I think this is the first plotline which literally makes no sense.  Many of the past ones have been stupid (the top of the list up until now being the failsafe), but this book one is incomprehensible.  I'm worried they can't dig themselves out of this hole.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Camera One

[FabulousTater]

(And honestly, I get that this is just more Regina ridiculousness, but it's really freakin' trying my patience because it makes zero sense, even for Regina.)

The way I look at Regina's thought process (when I bother to because I don't think I've watched a Woegina scene since last season and don't care to watch now) is to put it like this: "What would an ill-behaved, spoiled rotten, prone to violent temper tantrums, three year old toddler do or think?" Whatever your answer then that's exactly what Regina would do or think. Think of her as Veruca Salt -- Their critical thinking begins and ends at "I want it now", "I deserve it". That's really all there is to it. There is no thought process to look at because it's all driven by their selfish desires. Regina might as well be standing in her Vault of Horrors throwing a tantrum, yelling at the top of her lungs "I want a golden goose and I want it NOW! Don't care how, I want it NOW!" 

[Dani-Ellie]

I think this is the first plotline which literally makes no sense.  Many of the past ones have been stupid.  The top of the list up until now has been the failsafe.  But this book one is incomprehensible.  I'm worried they can't dig themselves out of this hole.

 

The only possible way they can dig themselves out of this for me is for Regina to be 100% dead wrong. When she finds Mystical Author, he or she looks at her and says, "Oh, child, it's not me. It was never me. It's you. Only you can give yourself your happily ever after."

 

Think of her as Veruca Salt -- Their critical thinking begins and ends at "I want it now", "I deserve it". That's really all there is to it. There is no thought process to look at because it's all driven by their selfish desires. Regina might as well be standing in her Vault of Horrors throwing a tantrum, yelling at the top of her lungs "I want a golden goose and I want it NOW! Don't care how, I want it NOW!" 

 

 

Oh, I totally get that. But this nonsense is just like, "... What? I dun follow." Usually I can at least see why she thinks what she thinks, even if I don't agree with it. This is just a whole new level of ridiculousness to the point that it doesn't track in any way, shape, or form.

[stealinghome]

Agreed. I mean, the only even halfway logical end to the story is for there to a) be no author or b) for him to say "you morons, it just records events."

Of course, because this is Once Upon a Regina, the show won't have either happen--but even if they DID, it doesn't explain why HENRY is buying into Regina's crazy.

[FabulousTater]

Oh, I totally get that. But this nonsense is just like, "... What? I dun follow." Usually I can at least see why she thinks what she thinks, even if I don't agree with it. This is just a whole new level of ridiculousness to the point that it doesn't track in any way, shape, or form.

I feel your pain, Dani-ellie ;-)

 

I think what is possibly throwing things off here (again based on what I've read because I haven't actually watched these scenes) is that sometimes there's another character that acts as a sort of voice of reason and tells Regina that she's out of line or off her rocker (though that's pretty much never now). In S1 that was Henry who would tell her to her face she was a villain, because she is due to her actions (not because a storybook says so). But now, instead of injecting a voice of reason through another character, someone to act like the audience and say, "Hold up. Wait a minute. That doesn't pass muster", they have Henry propping Regina's "thinking" and parroting her by saying stuff like "Ya, that book was written by grossly biased propaganda writers! You're not evil! Let's get that jerk writer and make him give you, Oh NotEvil!Mommy Dearest, Regina, Beacon of Goodness and Light, the happy ending you deserve!!"

 

There's no longer anyone acting as a voice of reason and so the storyline has turned into an echo chamber of lunacy and nonsense so much so that those in the audience have no confidence that the writers see this nonsense as just that. There's serious concern that "OMG. These nutbar writers really believe that Regina is just some poor misunderstood downtrodden victim! Sweet Jesus, save us." They've whitewashed so much of what Regina has really done, the atrocities and the true ugliness of it all, as well as what should be natural consequences for her, that how can we in the audience not think otherwise. They label Emma The Destroyer of Happiness, for crying out loud. So I can see why many here are like "WTF? This makes no sense. Does anyone else not see this makes no sense? Are they being for real here?! WHAT THE HELL, SHOW!"

For the sake of everyone's sanity here, I hope this dumbass storyline is leading to a real life lesson, a smack upside the head, eye-opening "look how wrong you are you lunatic!" moment for Regina. But lbr, with the St. Woegina altar burning bright in the writers' room, chances of that are slim to none.

Edited October 22, 2014 by FabulousTater

[Camera One]

That's why I really hope no one else like Emma and Snow hears about the book plan, and says, "Great idea!"  Even Henry would never be stupid enough to think it was even a possibility.  It's like trying to find the editor of your local newspaper to ensure you could give yourself a good day tomorrow.  

Edited October 22, 2014 by Camera One

[Dani-Ellie]

There's no longer anyone acting as a voice of reason and so the storyline has turned into an echo chamber of lunacy and nonsense so much so that those in the audience have no confidence that the writers see this nonsense as just that.

 

Ha! I'm totally going to call this plotline the Echo Chamber of Lunacy now. ;)

[YaddaYadda]

So I'm hoping someone can clear this up for me.  Was Wonderland ripped into Storybrooke by the curse?  The reason I'm asking is Regina wanted Hook to kill Cora so that she would not follow her.  Cora had no way of getting out of Wonderland since she did not have a portal.  I know the very first episode of Wonderland, Will is in Storybrooke.

[Curio]

So I'm hoping someone can clear this up for me. Was Wonderland ripped into Storybrooke by the curse?

 

I want to say no. We haven't seen any other Wonderland characters in Storybrooke besides Will, and I think the only reason Will got ripped into Storybrooke is because he wasn't in Wonderland at the time of the curse. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he had been in Wonderland for a while until he went to get Alice in "Victorian England."

Edited October 22, 2014 by Curio

[KingOfHearts]

Regina cherrypicked people from other realms for her curse. Everyone in EF outside the Cora Dome was taken whether they were on the Guest List of Evil or not, to my understanding. The reason she wanted Cora gone was because she'd inevitably find a way to follow her after the curse had been cast.

The problem with Wonderland is that the characters were apparently unaged/frozen during the curse. I cry foul that the Cora Dome affected multiple realms.

Edited October 22, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Mari]

The problem with Wonderland is that the characters were apparently unaged/frozen during the curse. I cry foul that the Cora Dome affected multiple realms.

It's definitely a continuity issue.  I'm expecting the problem to pop up with Arendelle, too, because you know they aren't going to kill off Frozen characters, or make Anna and Kristof  30 odd years older than bottled Elsa.

 

I fanwank it by telling myself it's because the curse made time stop/slow/something in any realm with enough magic.  The CoraDome just protected the people in it from the violence of everything being ripped away in the curse's immediate vicinity.  It's not a good answer, but it keeps me from getting too annoyed about it.

[KingOfHearts]

My headcanon for Zelena and Glinda is that their pendants grant them immortality. Glinda said regarding them, "In many ways, it is your life now." The whole pendant thing was taken from Oz the Great and Powerful, where one of the witches was ageless from her big emerald necklace.

Edited October 22, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

Something non-spoilery brought up in the spoiler thread:

Rumple put his power ahead of his son once more and would rather have spent 28 years in stasis, then come into our world without his magical powers?

This is something that has always bugged me, and I guess they think they've answered it because of the prophecy about Cora's daughter casting the curse, but not only have they shown that there have been multiple ways to travel between worlds that Rumple might have taken over the years, but for most of that time, from about six months after he went through the portal to right about the time the curse was cast, Bae wasn't even in the World Without Magic that was difficult/impossible to reach. He was in Neverland, which is easier to get to.

 

Neal managed to learn that Henry was in Neverland and rig a way to get there within about 30 seconds of getting into Rumple's castle, and he didn't have any magical powers and was verified to be dumber than a box of hair. And yet Rumple, supposedly super-powerful and super-clever, never thought in all that time to use magic to locate his son? While Bae was in Neverland, Rumple could have reached him with a magic bean, by hijacking the Shadow, probably with Jefferson's hat or Maleficent's mirror (that Will and Anastasia used to get to Wonderland), and goodness knows how many other ways. It wouldn't even have required him to lose or give up his power, though there still would have been that issue with his power once he was reunited with Bae that he'd have to work out. The magic beans seemed to be expensive and difficult to come by, but surely a guy who can spin straw into gold could have spun up a Jolly Roger worth of gold to buy one at some time during those hundreds of years. Really, a lot of pain could have been prevented if Rumple had been able to put his own anger, ego and hurt aside and had taken Milah's deal to trade her and Killian's lives for the bean she had or if he'd just told them why he needed the bean because of what happened to Bae. Then very soon after that he could have done the locator spell, found Bae in Neverland, and gone to get him (and if he'd told them about Bae, there's a good chance they would have volunteered the Jolly Roger to help).

 

Or was Rumple doing the same thing as Neal when Neal knew where he could have found Emma and avoided her because he was afraid of running into his father, so that Rumple knew he could have found Bae but chose instead to have the curse cast because he didn't want to have to deal with his father? That would explain why he expected to find his son again well beyond his son's reasonable lifespan. He knew Bae was in Neverland, but he waited and did the complicated thing because he didn't want to go to Neverland.

[Amerilla]

If Rumple was willing to confront his father in the fairy-back in "Nasty Habits" to *prevent* Bae from being taken to Neverland, I don't see him willingly leaving the kid there after Bae goes through the portal.

[Shanna Marie]

If Rumple was willing to confront his father in the fairy-back in "Nasty Habits" to *prevent* Bae from being taken to Neverland, I don't see him willingly leaving the kid there after Bae goes through the portal.

I'm just handwaving here, trying to come up with a reason other than "because prophecy!" that Rumple believed he'd find his totally mortal son in a World Without Magic after a couple of centuries had gone by, especially given his track record of prophecies never quite coming out the way he expected.

 

Maybe the "Nasty Habits" encounter is part of why he avoided going after his son in Neverland. He came out the winner in that one, but how would he feel about having to face his father on his father's own turf and admit that he, um, kind of lost his son that he'd sworn he wouldn't let go? He wasn't entirely keen on going to Neverland after Henry and seemed to really have to brace himself, and that time he'd just (he believed) lost his son to death, with his grandson being all he had left of him, and he had the rest of Henry's family also knowing what happened to Henry and eager to go after him. If Rumple had been the only one to know where Henry was, would he have said anything and would he have gone? At the time Rumple learned Henry was in Neverland, Regina, Emma, the Charmings and Hook were all there to see it, so there was no backing down.

[stealinghome]

Honestly, I think it's easier to believe that Rumpel just never knew Bae was in Neverland. I mean, he was explicitly told that Bae had gone to the Land Without Magic, I'm not sure why he would even suspect that Bae might end up in Neverland. (Though wouldn't it have been horribly hilarious if he'd shown up in our world and Bae was nowhere to be found?)

Edited October 23, 2014 by stealinghome

[Rumsy4]

Rumple is dumber than an empty box if he never tried to periodically check in one of his magical devices just to make sure Bae was still alive somewhere. That's the problem with being a plot driven show. They retcon things to the point where earlier events and actions make absolutely no sense. If Rumple knew Bae was in Neverland, and was too afraid to face his father, then he's an even bigger selfish coward than already established. And shouldn't he have waited until Bea was in the LWM before letting Regina cast the Dark Curse? 

[Amerilla]

Honestly, I think it's easier to believe that Rumpel just never knew Bae was in Neverland. I mean, he was explicitly told that Bae had gone to the Land Without Magic, I'm not sure why he would even suspect that Bae might end up in Neverland.

 

And that fits more with what we saw in "The Queen Is Dead" - Rumpel was genuinely surprised when Nealfire said he knew how to sail the Jolly Roger, a ship hadn't been in this world before arriving in Storybrooke. For that matter, in fairy-back to "The Doctor," we know he sent Jefferson to Oz to find the slippers so he could get to the Land Without Magic, and based on Regina's age, we can put at maybe 5 to 7 years before Curse 1.0. The impression they gave throughout S1-2 was that Rumpel was always banking on the prophecy that events would line up so his timeline and Bae's intersected in the LWM.

[OnceUponSomeChaos]

Okay, to answer a few questions brought up above:

 

1. Regarding Wonderland and the curse: Jefferson came to Storybrooke in S1 from Neverland, so the first curse did in fact reach that far and thus why Regina wanted Cora taken care of.

 

2. Regarding justice in Storybrooke: Ever since magic arrived, the normal justice system has pretty much been out the window. You have super powerful Regina, Rumple, Cora, Zelena, etc etc and face it, the jail won't be able to hold those that really need it and they don't appear to have a prison or the like to house those who they can't let out (because in curse-world Storybrooke, each day was repetitive and you didn't need to) and they can't actually process and send anyone to prison because they can't cross the town line (in theory for curse #2, fact for curse #1). So they are left just dealing with things on a case-by-case basis and unless someone goes to far and really disrupts the peace, there isn't a lot they can do.

 

No one has actually tried to press charges on anyone either since the curse broke, and frankly if they did, most of the main cast would be locked up for felonies like murder/manslaughter/assault/theft/ etc.

In 4x02, it actually really bothered me how David went into Bo-Peeps shop. His actions were an abuse of power. Peep hadn't done anything (well, until she raised the cleaver), and David stole her shepard's crook because HE needed it, and he had no right to. Boom: sheriff (deputy?) broke the law.

 

So really, they're just trying to keep anarchy from taking over and if people work it out among themselves, they let them b/c with only two jail cells, it would be really, really crowded.

3. King George: Maybe he's in a cell next to where Sydney is? The show seems to be using the mental asylum for long-term criminal care.

 

4. Rumple finding Bae: Rumple, from the moment he met the seer, always put 100% stock into it being true. Hearing how long it would take to find Bae and where, he took steps to make that happen and never thought to realize he could try something else because it was prophecy. I think he had to do this because otherwise he would've had to accept there would have been another way out of the initial one he would die if he fought, resulting in him self-crippling his leg and the fall out of the rest of his life.

 

Rumple is sharp and cunning, but not when it comes to his personal life.

 

5. Emma leaving Will in jail: Will did destroy property, was caught in Robin's tent, and ran from capture, so really, there are a few things they could write him up on. I read Emma's "you ruined my date" excuse as just that, an excuse, because hopefully she can tell he's lying about something and has information. Plus he was obviously very intoxicated, and there was precedent from S1 of Grumpy being in the drunk tank.

But really, Will is there so he can escape, because they still have beta-max for security in a place where magic can alter it, and no budget to actually have someone stay overnight (nor do they typically need to). 

 

6. It's a show about fairy tales: Logic about how our world works or things like their education system (has Henry even been back to school? Who is teaching Mary Margaret's class because she hasn't in forever? Where do the food supplies come from? Can three people decide Snow is mayor without having an actual election? etc etc) are pretty much ignored. I know guest stars and cast members leaving often necessitate dropped plot (King George, who I would love to see again).

I can hand wave a lot away as "curse did it" "magic did it" because you have to. It's when the character moments are dropped or forgotten that I dream of finding Adam & Eddie and the writers and going "Seriously? I can get Snow tolerating Regina, and Emma getting along b/c of the two mom's thing, but have they all forgotten that Regina is the reason they gave Emma up, that Regina tried to kill Emma as a newborn and nearly killed Charmz, and that she killed Graham and tried to poison Emma and nearly killed Henry in the process... etc. etc." 

[KAOS Agent]

There's a deleted scene in which we learn David locked up King George in the mines because he said he couldn't stand looking at his face or something. Since the scene was cut, we have no idea whether he ever let him out. This seems like cruel and unusual punishment to me, but the guy did cut an innocent (and hot!) guy in two just to frame Ruby, so my sympathy level is quite low there. It's still another action that shows David being less than lawful in carrying out his law enforcement duties.

 

Rumple is dumber than an empty box if he never tried to periodically check in one of his magical devices just to make sure Bae was still alive somewhere.

 

Bae wasn't even in the Land without Magic when Regina cast the curse. Unless the show would like to say that Neal was in his 30s when he met and impregnated the underage Emma, Neal didn't get back here until the late 80s/early 90s. Rumpel took a hell of a lot on faith when he knew damn well that prophecies are never what you think. It doesn't line up well with the clever guy Rumpel is painted to be.

Edited October 23, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[Shanna Marie]

I guess "Because prophecy!" is stronger than a lot of the reasoning given on this show, but given Rumple's track record with believing prophecy, it does seem weird that he never did the easy things to learn Bae was in Neverland, where he could have been much more easily reached, during most of the time Rumple spent scheming.

 

My other theory is that it was an an approach/avoidance thing -- he did want his son back and he felt bad about letting him go, but he also didn't want to have to give up magic, which he feared his son would still expect of him, and he was afraid of the reception he'd get from his son after letting him go. So he spent all that time piddling around, telling himself he was working on the problem, but it was really just advanced procrastination methods, sort of the Enchanted Forest version of falling into the Internet while checking e-mail and doing "research." He felt like he was working on the problem and was doing all this important stuff toward his goal, but he was avoiding facing it directly, and that was why he didn't try to verify where Bae really was or try some of the more obvious and direct methods. And meanwhile, other people were going back and forth with ease and one of his greatest enemies managed to just stumble across his son without even trying.

 

That's one thing it would be interesting for them to explore if they're throwing Hook and Rumple together this season. Not only did Hook end up with Rumple's wife, but in a way he ended up with Rumple's son. We don't have a lot of info on the extent of the relationship between Hook and Bae, but Hook knows a lot about him and they seemed fond of each other. Hook spent a lot more time with Bae than Rumple ever did, since they had centuries and Rumple had 14 years. Does Rumple know this, and does he resent this, or is any part of him grateful that someone was looking after Bae? It seems like everyone that Rumple loses ends up with Hook. That could easily make Rumple really paranoid, like he might go nuts if he saw Hook so much as talking to Belle.

[Jean]

I think the show in S1 originally wanted to make it so that the curse went forward into the future and time didn't sync in the real world vs fairytale land. There was that one line where Rumple said something about traveling through time and space.

 

But then they wanted that dumb twist at the end of S2 premiere when we found real world and fairytale were in sync with Mulan/Philip adventures and they wanted to send people back there. After that they had to figure out a way to keep Bae young enough and Neverland was the answer.

 

Bottom line is these guys have made every single effort to ruin everything about S1. Special talent they have there.

[daxx]

Interesting page from TV tropes.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Headscratchers/OnceUponATime

[Leia1979]

After 4x06 "Family Business," I'm really confused as to how long the Ogre Wars lasted. Was there more than one? That's what pre-Dark One Rumple was drafted for, and yet it's still going on when Belle is a teenager, which must be some 200 years later. 

 

This article implies there were two, or possibly three, separate wars.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Leia1979