Continuity, Nitpicks, Unanswered Questions and Timeline Headaches: When Did That Honeycrisp Apple Come From

[Serena]

Yes, I'm pretty sure the one Rumple stopped in exchange for Belle was the Third Ogre War. The one Rumple stopped to save Bae was the First. And I think Granny mentioned her brother (father?) being in an Ogre War too, so that would be the Second.

[KingOfHearts]

 

And I think Granny mentioned her brother (father?) being in an Ogre War too, so that would be the Second.

I believe her exact words were, "... veterans of the Second Ogres War." So you're right!

 

If ogres are blind, you'd think they'd be easier to defeat... unless they're getting manufactured like orcs.

Edited November 3, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

I've wondered if the Ogre Wars had anything to do with whatever war young Lt. Jones was fighting in. An enemy as fierce as the ogres might have driven the king to something as desperate as getting Dreamshade from Neverland, but the ogres don't seem quite sophisticated enough to be a seafaring race with a navy to do sea battles with, and their fierceness and evil seems obvious enough that the king wouldn't have had to resort to trickery like calling the deadly poison a healing herb in order to get his people to go collect it. If they were fighting ogres, even goody-goody Lt. Jones would have been all hell yeah about the deadly weapon that would save them all. So perhaps this was a different war or maybe a related one -- someone unleashed the ogres, or skirmishes related to the ogres stirred up other animosities that led to unrelated wars (kind of like World War I ended up having very little to do with the actual events that set it off). Or perhaps there's no link at all and it was on another side of the world, but it would have been in roughly the same time period. Rumple fragging himself would have been just a few years before the events of "Good Form."

[buffynut]

Sorry it this was covered already. I skimmed through the 3 pages rather quickly, so may have missed it.  

 

How long was Marian missing in Robin's world before he met Regina?  Did he know for sure she was dead?

[Serena]

Sorry it this was covered already. I skimmed through the 3 pages rather quickly, so may have missed it.  

 

How long was Marian missing in Robin's world before he met Regina?  Did he know for sure she was dead?

Marian was dead for about 3 or 4 years - she was originally executed at the same time as the events of "Snow Falls". So she died when Snowing met, then add their courtship, getting engaged, defeating George and Regina, getting married, Snow getting pregnant and then full term - I don't know if we've ever figured out how many years that was, but about 3 is my best guess. To that, add 28 years of the curse (they were frozen in time in the Enchanted Forest), then the events of season 2 (let's say 2 or 3 months, tops) and the events of 3A (a week, maybe). They met immediately at the beginning of the Missing Year.

They were more than 30 years in truth, but to Robin, it's been like 3 or 4 (because he was frozen for most of that)

[buffynut]

Marian was dead for about 3 or 4 years - she was originally executed at the same time as the events of "Snow Falls".

Thanks Serena.  With all the flashbacks and curses, I find it hard to follow the timelines,

[Shanna Marie]

Marian couldn't have been missing for very long before she was executed/dragged to the future (depending on the timeline) because Roland was supposedly four not too long after the curse broke (when Neal ran into Robin and company in Rumple's castle).

 

What makes the timeline really tricky is that Belle was living with Rumple when Marian was pregnant. Then Belle left Rumple and ran into Grumpy when he was still Dreamy. Soon after that he got his heart broken, became Grumpy, and ended up in the dungeon cell next to Snow, seemingly not too long after Snow and Charming met, since she went home with the dwarfs and was living with them when she used the memory potion to forget Charming, so that was before they really started to get together. So I guess there's a big gap between Robin's torture at the castle and Belle leaving, since between the torture and Belle leaving, Marian gave birth and went missing. Robin's torture seems to have been pretty early in Belle's stay, since she was still in a dungeon and crying herself to sleep every night.

[Mari]

With all the flashbacks and curses, I find it hard to follow the timelines,

Yes--for the most part, so do the rest of us.  There's a reason this show has such an active timeline thread.  ;)

 

(Unfortunately, I doubt sincerely that the writers have the timeline taped up in their writing/meeting rooms, because that timeline gets more hinky every third or fourth episode.)

[buffynut]

(Unfortunately, I doubt sincerely that the writers have the timeline taped up in their writing/meeting rooms, because that timeline gets more hinky every third or fourth episode.)

Fans probably have a better grasp on the timeline and events than the writers!

[HoodlumSheep]

I have a question that may have already been asked (I've tried to keep track of the discussion here, but there's a lot to read, so forgive me).

With the screwy timeline who's actually older (technically/ physically/don't know what word I'm looking for):

Killy or Nealfire? Or are the same age?

*I know their age has been discussed before, but I can't remember if you guys and gals figured out who is, I guess, physically older*

It's supposed to be early 2013 or sometime before frozen right? Nealfire's wanted poster said he was "born" in '77 so he'd be about 35/36 (+200 or so years) when he died right? Hook is estimated to be around 30ish when he went to Neverland (which I believe time pretty much stops in that realm), did a few things for Pan, spent possibly a year or 2 outside before being Cora Dome'd, etc.

So did Nealfire actually manage to eclipse Killy in age?

[InsertWordHere]

Physically, I think they are around the same age. Hook has been alive longer, as he was born some 15-20 years before Baelfire, but he also lived in Cora!dome for 28 years while Baelfire did not. So I guess in terms of actual years of experience, Neal was older.

Edited November 4, 2014 by InsertWordHere

[stealinghome]

I agree they're just about the same age, but if anything I actually think Hook is older, physically, than Neal was when he died (if we assume the '77 birthdate reflects Neal's actual age).

 

If we assume that Hook was roughly 23 at the time of Good Form (I can't remember if that episode specifies his age in the fairybacks), he has to have been at least 26 by the time he meets Milah--I think it takes at least 3 years to degrade to where he was in 'The Crocodile'--which means he's at least 32 when Milah dies and he goes to Neverland. But he apparently made it back to the Enchanted Forest by the time of 'Snow Falls' (and dicked around a lot while there, apparently, instead of just straight-up going for Rumpel), and 1x03 is set roughly 3.5 years before the curse. So Hook's about 35.5 when the curse hits, and we've worked out that about 2.5 years have passed since the show began (S1 is set over a full season, S2 over just a few months, and minus the Missing Year S3 takes place over like three weeks). So he's now about 38. Whereas yeah, because the writers have said that in the Once-verse we're still in like early 2013, Neal would've been about 35-36 just a week or two ago when he passed.

[InsertWordHere]

I wish they hadn't put Hook back in the EF so early. It does make him physically older than we previously thought, unless he happened to return to Neverland sometime between Snow Drifts and Queen of Hearts. I do think we can knock his Lieutenant days back to 20 or even a little younger. If JMo and MRJ were supposed to be 17 and 24ish respectively in Tallahassee, then I can buy a younger CO'D as well. 

 

I don't think it's been 2.5 years. Early 2013 puts it around 1.5 years. I'm only a stickler for this because it means Emma hasn't had her 30th birthday yet and we better not miss Emma being surrounded by loved ones on her 30th birthday, show!

Edited November 4, 2014 by InsertWordHere

[HoodlumSheep]

I feel like 38 seems too high for some reason, In my opinion. I always put him somewhere between emma's age to about Neal's age, but I suppose it just depends on all the age and time estimates people decide to use.

[Rumsy4]

Where does it say Killian was 23 in Good Form? I do think he was in his early 20s. Two to three years before he met Milah. Another six to eight years before she was killed and he went to Neverland. I feel that he may have been around 30 at that point. After he comes back to the Enchanted Forest, we can add two to three years pre-Dark Curse, one year after time started moving in Cora Dome, and another one year in the Missing Year. That should put him to about 34/35 in present day.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Rumsy4

[HoodlumSheep]

I've always assumed he was probably 18-21ish in Good Form, mainly because that's about the age pretty much everyone else has been portrayed as in their flashbacks. The age seems a little odd with him being a Lieutenant, but Killy seems to be portrayed as a very, very good sailor (outrunning curses and such), and with his brother a captain, he could have helped him climb the ranks faster too.

Hopefully we'll get better info on ages whenever Killy gets more origin flashbacks.

34/35 seems pretty accurate to me, which is why I asked if people thought Neal had possibly eclipsed Killy's age (physically speaking I guess), even if it was by a few months or a year.

Edited November 4, 2014 by HoodlumSheep

[InsertWordHere]

Sailors started out very young, so I would accept Killian making it to lieutenant at an early age. In Persuasion, Wentworth is already an officer in his early 20s and is captain when he returns 8 years later.

[Shanna Marie]

The age seems a little odd with him being a Lieutenant

Not really, for the time they seem to be basing this on. Boys as young as fourteen or so would join ships as midshipmen to be trained as officers, so they could have moved up in the ranks while still in their teens, especially in wartime. It wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility for someone to be a junior lieutenant by around 18.

 

I figure the present-day age of the character is likely in line with the actor's age, or else they would have cast a different actor. So if Hook is in the 33-35 range now (minus Neverland and curses), that puts him at 32-34 before the missing year, 28-31 while in Neverland, 20-23 or so when he met Milah, 18-20 or so for "Good Form."

 

And there's no way you'd convince me that present-day (well, pre-dead) Neal was physically younger than present-day Hook. That's why it would have been fun for them to have done more with that relationship, with Hook acting all fatherly toward someone who seems older, or maybe the two of them negotiating the role reversal or even just becoming practically peers.

[HoodlumSheep]

Sailors started out very young, so I would accept Killian making it to lieutenant at an early age. In Persuasion, Wentworth is already an officer in his early 20s and is captain when he returns 8 years later.

I love Persuasion! Anyways, you are right. Also, didn't they have to sort of have to pay for their promotions as well, or am I remembering it wrong? Isn't that what happened to Wickham in P&P, except he was a lowly foot soldier, so I don't know if it works quite the same with prominent families?

I feel like the age thing would be a whole lot clearer if we knew what age Bae was when Milah left.

Edited to say thanks for the brief history lesson, Shanna Marie!!

Edited November 4, 2014 by HoodlumSheep

[InsertWordHere]

From my understanding, officers from well to do families bought commissions in the regular army, as is the case with Colonels Fitzwilliam and Brandon in P&P and S&S, as well as Matthew in Downton Abbey, IIRC. I believe Wentworth was able to work himself through the Naval ranks, unless his influential brother in-law helped him, I'm not sure if Austen ever said. Wickham was in the militia and I believe later joined the regulars as a commissioned officer at the end of the novel.

 

Most of what I know about military ranks comes from Jane Austen, if you couldn't tell.

[Shanna Marie]

Also, didn't they have to sort of have to pay for their promotions as well, or am I remembering it wrong?

They bought commissions to be officers. That's one aspect of Hook's background that doesn't quite fit, with two brothers with an apparently absent father being officers, but there were cases of wealthier families sponsoring promising young men from poorer families. I think that was one of Wickham's issues with Darcy, that he expected the Darcy family to have purchased a commission for him, but they didn't.

 

One thing that complicates figuring out ages based on the relative ranks and ages of Killian and Liam is that "captain" is both a position and a rank in the navy. In rank, it's a fairly senior officer, the equivalent of a full colonel in the army. But any officer in command of a ship has the position of "captain," regardless of actual rank. In fact, most naval vessels in today's navy probably aren't "captained" by actual captains, but rather by lieutenant commanders or commanders, who are called "captain" while on their own ships. So Liam might not have been an actual captain by rank. When Liam died, Killian became captain of the Jewel of the Realm, even though he had the rank of lieutenant. Though, of course, that didn't mean anything anymore when he went pirate immediately afterward.

 

And now we're veering away from timeline issues, so maybe this should be further discussed in the Hook thread.

[angelwoody]

Sailors started out very young, so I would accept Killian making it to lieutenant at an early age. In Persuasion, Wentworth is already an officer in his early 20s and is captain when he returns 8 years later.

LOVE Persuasion!

They bought commissions to be officers. That's one aspect of Hook's background that doesn't quite fit, with two brothers with an apparently absent father being officers, but there were cases of wealthier families sponsoring promising young men from poorer families. I think that was one of Wickham's issues with Darcy, that he expected the Darcy family to have purchased a commission for him, but they didn't.

One thing that complicates figuring out ages based on the relative ranks and ages of Killian and Liam is that "captain" is both a position and a rank in the navy. In rank, it's a fairly senior officer, the equivalent of a full colonel in the army. But any officer in command of a ship has the position of "captain," regardless of actual rank. In fact, most naval vessels in today's navy probably aren't "captained" by actual captains, but rather by lieutenant commanders or commanders, who are called "captain" while on their own ships. So Liam might not have been an actual captain by rank. When Liam died, Killian became captain of the Jewel of the Realm, even though he had the rank of lieutenant. Though, of course, that didn't mean anything anymore when he went pirate immediately afterward.

And now we're veering away from timeline issues, so maybe this should be further discussed in the Hook thread.

Re: Wickham & Darcy:

In P&P, Wickham initially expressed an interested in the clergy but changed his mind when the position opened up and asked to be paid the equivalent of the sum of the living. Darcy did as he asked, but Wickham blew through the money. By the time Wickham is in the military, Darcy is done with him.

Edited November 5, 2014 by stacey

[InsertWordHere]

Responding in the small talk thread, angelwoody.

[Shanna Marie]

Ah, thanks. I knew there was something Wickham expected of Darcy that he ended up blowing. It's been a while since I read P&P (and I loathe Wickham, so tend to skim those parts). But wasn't there some Austen ne'er do well who resented not having a commission purchased for him? Or maybe I'm mixing it up with some Georgette Heyer.

 

BTW, I don't know how much overall influence Jane Espenson has on the show, but I know she's a huge Jane Austen fan. She was involved in the same Pride and Prejudice tribute book I also contributed to, and I did an e-mail interview with her in conjunction with a Firefly book she edited (that I contributed to) in which the topic came up. So I do wonder if she had any sway on the Horatio Hookblower backstory that could have come from an Austen book.

 

At the time of "Good Form," I was critical of the fact that the Georgian/Regency era was in the distant past while the present is more medieval, but it does seem like they're going with an overall 18th century vibe, even in the Enchanted Forest present. Of course, the costuming veers widely from that (women in trousers and hot pants), and the peasants look more medieval, but then that continued into the early 20th century in our world, but the general look/feel has settled in that general era when the Grimms were publishing. It is weird that the look in Hook's era doesn't seem to be 200 years removed, and the technology doesn't seem to have changed much (if anything, it's regressed because the Jolly Roger has cannon and I don't think we've seen any other evidence of gunpowder-based weapons), but it's not really like they've gone from the 18th century to the middle ages like I initially thought.

[Mari]

 It is weird that the look in Hook's era doesn't seem to be 200 years removed, and the technology doesn't seem to have changed much (if anything, it's regressed because the Jolly Roger has cannon and I don't think we've seen any other evidence of gunpowder-based weapons), but it's not really like they've gone from the 18th century to the middle ages like I initially thought.

If we're going real world comparisons, it's not unheard of for large shock to a cultural system to cause technological/educational  stagnation or even backslide.  For example, look what happened after the fall of the Roman Empire.

 

It's possible that the Ogre Wars (at least one set) were traumatic enough that it caused technological backslide.

[Shanna Marie]

There's also the fact that in a world that has magic, technology may not progress as rapidly because it isn't quite as necessary. Do you need heavy industry when you have fairy dust?

[Rumsy4]

There's also the fact that in a world that has magic, technology may not progress as rapidly because it isn't quite as necessary. Do you need heavy industry when you have fairy dust?

 

Blue seems to have been selective in doling out fairy-dust related favors though. Why else would people need to seek out the likes of Rumpelstiltskin? 

 

I do think they should have shown some differences between the time of Rumple/Hook to present day Enchanted Forest. Hook seems to have had no problems settling right back in when he came back from Neverland, even though he had been gone for like 200 years. 

Edited November 4, 2014 by Rumsy4

[KAOS Agent]

In the last few episodes, we've had Emma refer to Hook being 300 years old, Hook claiming he's more like 200 years old and then Emma referring to her family as spanning three generations and 400 years. The writers are just messing with us now and I don't like it. How hard would it be to just pick something and make it canon?

[Amerilla]

Continuity Fairy is taking time off after boob-reduction surgery?

The writers just don't want to lock themselves in to anything. Ever. At all. Primarily because they didn't think it through in the beginning, and they have a bunch of time-streams they can't really reconcile.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Amerilla

[InsertWordHere]

I don't really consider this a continuity lapse because the 300 and 400 figures came from Emma, not from Neal, Rumple, or Hook. 200 years or a couple centuries is the consistent figure we've gotten from the latter three. They are the ones who've lived those years, not Emma. I've always thought the timeline, despite Blue's "time and space" quote was straightforward and that Bae came straight from the EF equivalent of 1870 or so to our 1870.

[FabulousTater]

General timeline question: Okay, the show established that the Snow Queen landed in the real world circa 1982. But then does that mean that all the events between (and including) Charming getting tapped by Rumple to become Prince James, him meeting Snow, them having their True Love adventures, getting married, defeating George, capturing Regina, letting Regina go(!!!), getting married again, and finally having Emma all happened in a year?!?!

 

Am I missing something here?

 

Anna comes across shepherd David in 4x01. Then later in 4x08 Anna is reunited with Elsa, they get betrayed/urned/frozen by the Snow Queen, where finally the Snow Queen ends up leaving for 1982 real world. Between 4x01 flashbacks and 4x08 flashbacks I'm assuming there was a time-lapse of only a few months at most.  So....seriously, I keep coming up with a year or less transpired between David becoming Prince James and then him and Snow meeting, falling in love, having baby Emma, and sending her through the wardrobe.

 

I guess you can stretch it to almost two years if you go with Snow Queen landed in Jan. 1982 and then 1 year and 10 months later  Emma lands in Maine in Oct. 1983.

 

....That's one seriously compressed timeline.

Edited November 17, 2014 by FabulousTater

[kennyab]

I guess you can stretch it to almost two years if you go with Snow Queen landed in Jan. 1982 and then 1 year and 10 months later  Emma lands in Maine in Oct. 1983.

 

Considering the Sorcerer('s Apprentice) can so easily open a portal to the real world, something that's not supposed to be trivial, I'm guessing he can play around with when to send someone as well. I think he put her there early enough to prepare for Emma's arrival, not necessarily when it synced up with the Enchanted Forest's timeline.

[Shanna Marie]

Maybe there's some kind of time dilation thing going on, where it seemed instantaneous from Ingrid's point of view to step through the door into another world, but because of the vast distance between worlds and the difficulty of getting to a world without magic, it actually took her a couple of years to make the journey.

[FabulousTater]

Considering the Sorcerer('s Apprentice) can so easily open a portal to the real world, something that's not supposed to be trivial, I'm guessing he can play around with when to send someone as well. I think he put her there early enough to prepare for Emma's arrival, not necessarily when it synced up with the Enchanted Forest's timeline.

 

I don't know. Certainly anything is possible with these writers, but if the Apprentice can control when in time, as well as where, he sends someone why the heck did he send Ingrid to the real world 1+ year before Emma is even born (let alone present in the real world). If The Apprentice can control the time aspect why not send Ingrid forward to when Emma is already there. It seems random for him to have just picked 1982 if he can control when Ingrid would pop-up. Based on what we know so far I just don't buy the Apprentice is controlling the time travel aspect.

 

I mean, it kinda sounds like a convoluted excuse for the simple fact that yes, the timeline is compressed because the writers have either: A) a really ingenious plan for picking 1982 OR (the more likely answer) B) didn't really think that far ahead and just wanted to be able to get a classic TRON poster in the shot of The Snow Queen in the real world...because they like to tip their hat to themselves since they wrote the TRON sequel.

 

Also isn't there the whole "time travel" isn't possible/against the laws of magic and Zelena was super crazy(/powerful) because she figured out how to do it and got all the ingredients together and ultimately made it happen. Seems that making it as easy-peasy as a nordic magical door that The Apprentice can make out of thin air all rather dumb on Zelena (and Rumple's part). Not that the show has ever shied away from making prior actions look stupid, but still.

Edited November 18, 2014 by FabulousTater

[Camera One]

General timeline question: Okay, the show established that the Snow Queen landed in the real world circa 1982. But then does that mean that all the events between (and including) Charming getting tapped by Rumple to become Prince James, him meeting Snow, them having their True Love adventures, getting married, defeating George, capturing Regina, letting Regina go(!!!), getting married again, and finally having Emma all happened in a year?!?!

 

I guess you can stretch it to almost two years if you go with Snow Queen landed in Jan. 1982 and then 1 year and 10 months later  Emma lands in Maine in Oct. 1983. ....That's one seriously compressed timeline.

Good point...why did they go with 1982, since they were so specific with that.

 

I think your conclusion of 1 year 10 months must be it.  Has anyone estimated how much time elapsed based on clues from the flashbacks in S1 and S2 on the Snow/Charming story?  I suppose the events of "The Shepherd" could have taken place in a month, then Snow Falls flashbacks could have occurred in a week, and maybe 7:15am could have occurred two months later would be the shortest possible time, then "Heart of Darkness", "Apple Red As Blood" and "A Land Without Magic" flashbacks would have occurred very close together, let's say a month.  So that means 4 months between Charming and Snow meeting and the Glass Coffin scene, at minimum?  I haven't watched those episodes for a long time, but I'm curious now how many time cues there actually were.  The only one I remember was in "7:15am" when Snow talked to Red and was surprised it had been a month already.

[InsertWordHere]

It definitely condenses the previously estimated timeline of 2-3 years. One year and ten months is impossible if Roland is 4 in season 3A. Belle met Anna before she met Rumple. Elsa did not even notice Anna was missing in 4.8, so not much time seems to have passed between 4.6 and 4.8. Marian was seen as hugely pregnant in the early part of Belle's stay with Rumple. Even if Marian gave birth say, one month after Ingrid goes to our World in January 1982 at the earliest, that places Roland as one year and nine months old when Emma was born. Then you have the frozen curse years, then around nine months between Emma's arrival in Storybrooke and the Pan curse. Then the missing year plus a few weeks for Zelena and 4B. Um, maybe the Coradome just messed up Robin's counting date-keeping skills? That's all I got unless time travel was involved.

 

Oh, and since we were talking about it the other week, it shaves some time off of Hook's timeline too.

[Leia1979]

Just a thought I had last night relative to DQ ending up in 1982. Is it possible that she hung around frozen Arendelle for awhile before Rumple and then the Apprentice showed up? I certainly wouldn't put it past DQ to try to find other ways of getting Urned!Elsa back before giving up the hat.

 

I'm willing to fanwank that DQ is as patient as she said she was and spent a year searching for alternatives before digging up the hat. Then the apprentice appeared 1) to save the hat and 2) because things had been set in motion for Emma to be born.

[KingOfHearts]

Well Henry's age is impossible, so I really don't find Roland's age to be any more accurate, hehe.

 

So how did the Snow Queen not age for 28 years? She doesn't look any different from 1982 to 2013.

Edited November 18, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Mari]

Just a thought I had last night relative to DQ ending up in 1982. Is it possible that she hung around frozen Arendelle for awhile before Rumple and then the Apprentice showed up? I certainly wouldn't put it past DQ to try to find other ways of getting Urned!Elsa back before giving up the hat.

 

I'm willing to fanwank that DQ is as patient as she said she was and spent a year searching for alternatives before digging up the hat. Then the apprentice appeared 1) to save the hat and 2) because things had been set in motion for Emma to be born.

That's a good point--none of the Arendelle stuff had dates, just "a long time ago".  She could have been gliding around Arendelle looking for information for a while, it's not like we have clothes change clues to go on.

 

Plus, like you said about Emma; it's plausible that he showed up then because that's around the time Emma was "visible" in the future.  If we have her in Arendelle until around the time of Snow and Charming's wedding, would the 1982 work?

[KingOfHearts]

So how do Snow, Charming, Snowflake, Henry, Emma and Elsa all fit in a loft apartment built for one? I seriously expected Emma to be house hunting already.

(I guess Elsa can sleep on the couch with no covers... the cold doesn't bother her.)

[YaddaYadda]

The Loft is like the Weasleys home?

[Dani-Ellie]

Snowflake in Snow's and Charming's room won't be a problem for a little while (and at the rate this show goes, he'll probably be an infant until season 7 ;)). Emma and Elsa (or Henry) could be sharing the bed in the loft, and the odd person out could be on the couch. Or maybe there's a rollaway bed that they set up in front of Emma's during the night?

[Mari]

Why was Will staying in a tent in the forest with people who kicked him out of the group, when he should have an apartment with a bed, shower, and electricity?

[KingOfHearts]

Why were the nuns staying at Granny's diner? What's wrong with the convent?

 

Why did Ingrid decide to unfreeze everyone in Arendelle?

Edited December 1, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[KingOfHearts]

So in Smash the Mirror, we find out Regina's unsuccessful meeting with Robin at the tavern was in the storybook. So, how much is in the storybook exactly? Every single fairyback we've ever seen? I know some stories were omitted, like Pinnochio's and Frankenstein's. But surely if little moments like the tavern are in there, Henry should know more than he does. Since he's all gung-ho about Outlaw Queen, you'd think he'd bring that up.

Edited December 6, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

That's what I have wondered about too.  Is Regina and Gold's every atrocity in there?  If so, why wouldn't Henry be traumatized?  Is Cora's backstory in there, and if so, why wouldn't Rumple and Regina know she had a sister?  I suppose I can see why Peter Pan, Zelena and the Snow Queen might not be, since they're not from "Mist Haven".  But still, the storybook should contain way more information that might be useful.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Camera One

[InsertWordHere]

I don't think most of Rumple's atrocities can be in there, because in Season 1, Henry didn't even know that Rump was Mr. Gold's FTL persona. IDK, he shows up in so many stories though, maybe Henry just couldn't recognize him without the crocodile skin. 

[MadyGirl1987]

Thinking about the big reveal of Arendelle being frozen for 30 years, I had an Epiphany... It makes NO SENSE! Wasn't the first curse happening 30 years ago? Even if it happened 31 years ago, that doesn't work out. We see Charming still at home as a farmer when he meets Anna. You still need a couple of years at least for him to become Prince James, meet Snow and fall in love, have them defeat Regina, marry Snow and for Snow to become pregnant and have a full pregnancy. Major plot-hole!

[KingOfHearts]

I believe it's been at least 32 years. The pre-curse events probably took 2 years to transpire, then the curse which lasted 28 years, then S1-3A probably took a year, then another for the Missing Year.

 

I'm wondering if the "30 years"  was intentionally inaccurate or just a rough estimate. Hans and Blackbeard aren't exactly reliable folks.

Edited December 7, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

I'm wondering if the "30 years"  was intentionally inaccurate or just a rough estimate.

I'm going with rough estimate because 30 is a nice round number. If they'd said something more precise, like 29 or 31, then I'd have more of a problem with it, but 30 can probably be anything from 27 to 33.

 

I'm guessing that the past events were approximately three years before the curse, going by Roland's age when Neal was back in the Enchanted Forest. He was four then, and maybe a year or so went by since Emma got time moving again, so he should have been around 3 when the curse hit. The Arendelle stuff seemed to have happened not too long before Roland was born since it seemed to happen not long before Belle went to live with Rumple, and she was still new there when (the real) Robin broke in and Marian was extremely pregnant. We don't know how long she stayed, but it couldn't have been much longer than a year, since she ran into Grumpy not too long before he met Snow in the dungeon.

 

And this is making me wonder how long Hook had been back from Neverland before the "Snow Falls" time period because that's not much time for him to have developed any reputation as "Captain Hook." He didn't become Hook until he was on his way to Neverland, and then once he returned he seemed to be either in an alcoholic haze or bouncing back and forth between Cora and Regina. Did he manage to squeeze in enough piracy in his spare sober time to develop such a fearsome reputation and become any kind of rival for Blackbeard? Killian Jones could have been a legend, but it doesn't seem like he had time to become famous as Captain Hook.