Continuity, Nitpicks, Unanswered Questions and Timeline Headaches: When Did That Honeycrisp Apple Come From

[stealinghome]

Since the timeline (and its many problems) is a perennial topic of conversation, I figured we could start a thread dedicated to it, in part so that we can have a resource when we have questions in the future.

 

Here's the important stuff (with problems) that I have so far:

 

Snow and Charming met roughly 3.5 years before the Dark Curse hit in the pilot. Logic behind it: 'Snow Falls,' when Snow and Charming meet, takes place in the spring/summer and their adventures over the first season take roughly a year--we know this because 'Heart of Darkness' takes place in winter, but it's spring again in 1x22 when they get engaged (which is consistent with summer weather in 1x10--it's later in the summer that David sends the letter and ultimately goes on the run. He and Red must have traveled together for a few weeks/months). It probably takes them another year to get married in the state wedding of the pilot--it seems to be coldish weather in 2x10, when they win, but then their honeymoon is during generic spring/summer weather. Emma is born over a year from the flashbacks in 'The New Neverland' (her birthday is in October, whereas 'New Neverland' takes place in spring/summer--it must take them a few months to conceive). So if you add up the year Snowing spent finding each other, a year to conquer the kingdom, and say 1.5 years between the state wedding and Emma's birth/the curse, you're at 3.5 years from their meeting to the curse hitting in the pilot.

 

Belle/Rumpel's timeline relative to Snowing's: Roland is around 3 when season 3 starts, which means he must have been around 1.5-2 when time re-started in the pilot (S1 takes place over a full year, but S2 is just a few months). Let's say 2, because figure in 3a Roland is probably 3 years and a few months--people just don't usually say "he is three years and five months old." So, that means Belle met Robin Hood just over 2 years before the curse (Marian looks like she's just about to give birth in 'Lacey'). In other words, Belle meets Robin a few months after Snowing get engaged, while they're fighting to re-take the kingdom but before they have won (which fits--1x22 has always seemed very spring-y to me, and 'Lacey' seems definitely to be summer). Which means that Rumpel probably "recruits" Belle right at the time of Snowing's engagement, 2.5 years pre-curse. And Rumpel probably banishes Belle around the time that Snowing beat Regina, 1.5 years pre-curse, maybe a little earlier because I think Belle says she spent "months" with Rumpel, not a year.

But their timeline is the one that is screwy.

 

First, 'Ariel' poses a problem here, because you have Regina mentioning Ariel at the very end of 'Skin Deep,' which means that 'Skin Deep' must end about 3 years before the Curse (because in 'Ariel' it seems clear that Bandit Snow has already met Charming, but she hasn't gone after him in 1x10 yet). But 3 years pre-curse Belle hasn't met Rumpel yet....

 

Moreover, in 'The Evil Queen,' Rumpel seems to have just "recruited" Belle--he says "I already have a maid. Promising girl, actually!"--but 'The Evil Queen' is set even before Snow and Charming meet (so say 4 years pre-curse). This episode is also before David is recruited to be James, because Rumpel tells Regina to cut off trade with George's kingdom, which must put them in the dire straits of 'The Shepherd,' confirming its early status. So again this contradicts Roland's age, but actually is consistent with 'Ariel,' because if he's just met Belle 4 years pre-curse and obviously sent her away 3+ years ago, that matches the "months" comment Belle made.

 

So the Rumpel/Belle timeline can be consistent either with Roland's age or 'The Evil Queen'/'Ariel,' but not both, I think.

 

fwiw, in 2x09, Snow and Charming are already married (Rumpel plants the idea of the Curse in Regina's mind on their wedding day, per 2x10, and Regina is already thinking of the curse), and based on the tally marks in Belle's cell, she's been held by Regina for at least six months at that point, probably way longer. Which doesn't help with much, but.

 

Snow on the run: It seems to me that Snow was on the run for at least a year when she meets Charming. Again, we know that it's spring/summer when the Huntsman lets her go and there's at least one winter ('Red Handed') in between her escape and when she meets Charming (which is in the summer). The show has never said, but my personal headcanon is that she was on the run closer to 2 years; it just doesn't seem possible that we could go from the Snow of 'Red Handed' to the Snow of 'Snow Falls' in like six months (and where do you fit 'The Evil Queen' in, too?). It seems likelier to me that 'The Evil Queen' takes place about a year from Snow going on the run (gives her time to get good at fighting), and then 'Snow Falls' is closer to two (gives her time to get truly bitter/pessimistic about Regina+acquire some fairy dust). But at minimum Snow was on the run for a year. So Snow goes on the run 4.5-5.5 years before the Curse.

 

Charming seems to have been taken to be James about 4 years before the curse; this is consistent with 'The Evil Queen' (if, as I've speculated above, that episode is 4.5 years pre-curse, that puts George's kingdom in heavy financial need half a year later, which is maybe a little fast but not impossible) as well as 'The Shepherd'/'Snow Falls' (where it seems like he's been pretending to be a prince for several weeks by the time he and Abigail take the carriage ride 3.5 years pre-curse, if you think about how much time all the travel must have taken).

Edited May 7, 2014 by stealinghome

[InsertWordHere]

 

Which means that Rumpel probably "recruits" Belle right at the time of Snowing's engagement, 2.5 years pre-curse.

Excellent work! This is indeed a headache. I don't think Snow and Charming can be engaged until after Belle leaves Rumple, because she meets Grumpy while he is still Dreamy and Grumpy doesn't meet Snow until later when he is imprisoned in George's castle in 7:15 AM.

 

One thing to consider is that we don't know how the seasons in the Enchanted Forest work so I don't know how much we can depend on them to judge the passage of time.

Edited May 7, 2014 by InsertWordHere

[stealinghome]

Excellent work! This is indeed a headache. I don't think Snow and Charming can be engaged until after Belle leaves Rumple, because she meets Grumpy while he is still Dreamy and Grumpy doesn't meet Snow until later when he is imprisoned in George's castle in 7:15 AM.

Oh, that's a good point--I had forgotten about 'Dreamy.' So if Grumpy doesn't meet Snow until roughly 3 years pre-curse, that tilts the scales toward "Roland is just younger than he should be," right? Because if Belle and Dreamy/Grumpy meet (say) 3.5 years pre-curse, that tracks with 'The Evil Queen' being about 4.5 years pre-curse and 'Skin Deep' being roughly 3 years pre-curse.

 

...yeah, I think the writers just de-aged Roland to make him uber cute and also young enough to accept Regina as a stepmom. Which, fair, because that kid is really the cutest ever.

 

 

ETA: Also, I just looked, and Snow doesn't appear to be wearing the fairy dust necklace in either 'The Evil Queen' or 'Ariel.' Which again makes me think that she got the fairy dust after 'The Evil Queen' and saw Regina's evil, and that 'Ariel' must take place after 'Snow Falls' because Snow's already used it.

Edited May 7, 2014 by stealinghome

[dr pepper]

Or in FairyTaleLand, time is iffy and individual timelines don't have to be in sync.

[ShadowDenizen]

That's a possible explanation, but it would be supremely unsatisfying for me, at least, and almost a cop-out on the writers part if they go there.

 

If a show like this wants to be super-ambitious and travel back-and-forth not only in time, but in dimensions as well, it's crucial that the writers are internlly consistent, or else any semblace of coherence is lost, and that, in turn, mcuks with the audiences suspension of disbelief, which is a staple of a sweeping fantasy like this.

 

And great job on that timeline, StealingHome!

Edited May 7, 2014 by ShadowDenizen

[stealinghome]

So 3x21/3x22 further solidified for me that the key timeline problem is that Roland is portrayed as too young. Snow Falls happens about 3.5 years pre-curse. If Marian already has had Roland at that time, he should be about 5 in the present. There's no way that kid is 5, or even close to it. (Because, really. If Roland is 3.5 now, it means he was 2 when the curse was cast. There's no way Snowing found each other, defeated George and Regina, and had Emma in 2 years. Just no way.)

 

Further, that Belle is with Rumpel (but relatively recently) when Snow and Charming meet further supports that 'The Evil Queen'/'Ariel' are correct and that Roland is just too young.

Edited May 12, 2014 by stealinghome

[shapeshifter]

stealinghome, maybe OUAT time is something like dog years, only more complicated, IDK, like maybe unicorn years. Like maybe 7 human/mortal years equal 1-to-5 Fairy Tale Land years, depending upon how much magic was spent per year.

And let's not forget about the years in Storybrooke when only Henry was aging, but Emma and Pinocchio were growing up, and then Neal appears at an indeterminate age.

[Camera One]

Great idea for a topic.  I was getting really confused in regards to the Robin Hood/Marion timeline, which will be important next season.

 

 

 

There's no way that kid is 5

 

While staying in Rumple's castle, Roland found his way into a Locked Cabinet and ate an "Eat Me" cake which de-aged him 2 years.  This was the basis for Robin Hood having a crisis of faith about his ability as a single father, perfect for a flashback episode revolving around Robin Hood and Regina in Season 4.  Voilà.  The ease of being a writer for this show.  

Edited May 14, 2014 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

Roland was four when Neal was in his father's castle pre-Neverland. Robin specifically says his age. So add the lost year and he's five and a bit. Whether the actor looks five or not, his age has been established.

[stealinghome]

Roland was four when Neal was in his father's castle pre-Neverland. Robin specifically says his age. So add the lost year and he's five and a bit. Whether the actor looks five or not, his age has been established.

KAOS Agent, where was that said? I believe you, I'm just curious--I swear I went all over those clips and couldn't find a mention!

[KAOS Agent]

Robin says it when Neal is trying to convince him to use Roland as shadow bait in "Quite a Common Fairy".  The direct quote is, "Are you out of your mind? He's four years old."

[Aliasscape]

I completely disregard all seasons, winter/spring/fall whatever when I make a timeline. It's only relative what happened before or after another event. The writers can't control what season it is outside when they happened to film whatever.

 

This is my rough timeline by episode. Sometimes the end of an episode shows that the things inside other episodes happened during that episode. So in that case I put the episodes contained within that episode in (). 

 

Think Lovely Thoughts
Good Form / Manhattan
The Crocodile (Desperate Souls--Nasty Habits--The Return)
Second Star to the Right
And Straight on Til Morning

 

Still Small Voice

 

Bleeding Through
The Miller's Daughter

 

The Queen is Dead
The Stable Boy
We Are Both
In the Name of the Brother (The Doctor)
It's Not Easy Being Green
Kansas
Quite a Common Fairy?

 

Fruit of the Poisonous Tree
Heart is a Lonely Hunter
Red-Handed
Child of the Moon
Skin Deep (Lacey--The Evil Queen--Dreamy--The Outsider--*)
Hat Trick???

 

Tiny
The Shepherd
Snow Falls
*Ariel
7:15AM  -- True North
Whatever Happened to Frederick
Heart of Darkness
An Apple Red as Blood
A Land Without Magic

Lost Girl
Lady of the Lake
The Cricket Game
Pilot  (The New Neverland -- Price of Gold -- The Thing You Love Most --Queen of Hearts)  --The Stranger
Welcome to Storybrooke

Edited May 17, 2014 by Aliasscape

[MDKNIGHT]

So 3x21/3x22 further solidified for me that the key timeline problem is that Roland is portrayed as too young. Snow Falls happens about 3.5 years pre-curse. If Marian already has had Roland at that time, he should be about 5 in the present. There's no way that kid is 5, or even close to it. (Because, really. If Roland is 3.5 now, it means he was 2 when the curse was cast. There's no way Snowing found each other, defeated George and Regina, and had Emma in 2 years. Just no way.)

 

Forget Roland not being 5, whyisn't he in his 30's?  A friend jsut pointed out to me that Robin and his Men were not in the original curse because they weren't in the Enchanted Forest when Regina cast it and she didn't have a special Hate on for them like she did for Frankenstein and Mad Hatter (they got snatched up special apparently).  But if Regina captured Marian back before the curse then Roland will have been born since Marian gave birth to him and that would mean that he and Robin should have aged 28 years while the Storybrookers did thier enless Groundhog Day thing until Emma broke the curse.  So baby Emma who is YOUNGER than Roland aged to 28,Roland should be in his 30s  and Robyn Hood should be around 60.  There is no reason to beieve that Cora's dome was in Sherwood Forest so how does this make sense?  This wasn't a problem until they specified that Regina and Marian crossed paths because Marian Robyn's and Roland's stories could have taken place closer to the curse being lifted if Regina had not interacted with Marian, placing thier timelines pre-curse. 

[Camera One]

There is no reason to beieve that Cora's dome was in Sherwood Forest so how does this make sense?

Excellent points, but they could just say Robin Hood, Roland and his Merry Men were in Cora's dome even if it makes no sense. They could say the Merry Men travelled into Aurora's kingdom for a job, and got Domed.

Alternatively, maybe Sherwood and Aurora's kingdom are side by side and both got protected in Cora's Dome. They seemed to be implying that Sherwood Forest was close to Regina's Knifington Palace. Presumably, Aurora's kingdom is also within trekking distance. So in addition to timeline headaches, there are clearly geographical headaches as well.

Robin Hood was not at the safe haven, but he was in the post-apocalyptic Enchanted Forest when Neal landed there after the Tamara Incident. And everything in the Enchanted Forest was presumably either in the Dome, or ripped to Storybrooke. Another weird thing is why were there still objects left in Rumple's castle, unless it was also in the Dome radius?

Edited June 7, 2014 by Camera One

[stealinghome]

Ha. Now I have the mental image of Regina, Snowing, Aurora/Philip (do they have a ship name?), Eric/Ariel, Midas/Abigail, and all the other nobles arguing over these little like 10' x 10' plots of land that are their "kingdoms"!

[Serena]

Robin Hood was not at the safe haven, but he was in the post-apocalyptic Enchanted Forest when Neal landed there after the Tamara Incident. And everything in the Enchanted Forest was presumably either in the Dome, or ripped to Storybrooke. Another weird thing is why were there still objects left in Rumple's castle, unless it was also in the Dome radius?

Do we know for sure that every object everywhere was taken to Storybrooke? In Emma's old room, her crib and most of her stuff seemed to still be there. Plus it makes sense that Rumple would put in a safeguard in the curse to make sure that Regina couldn't touch his stuff! 

[Camera One]

Do we know for sure that every object everywhere was taken to Storybrooke? In Emma's old room, her crib and most of her stuff seemed to still be there.

Good point. So the Curse liked the Mobile, but not the crib. Weird Curse.

[snarkastic]

No one in Wonderland/Alice's England really aged in 28 years, either. I think Alice was only in the asylum for a year? Yet, Will was hanging with Robin Hood at Malificent's castle before going to Wonderland where maybe a year passed for him there, but 28 years didn't pass in the Enchanted forest during that time.

 

Basically, time passes and people age however the show needs them to. (This reminds me of Hook/Rumple/Nealfire being alive for 300 years but Neal bean portalled to the Darlings in the early 1900s/late 1800s and I feel the show's stance is that time travel isn't possible (other than the Zelena case and the Jefferson case) so that wouldn't even put them in the 200 years old category)

[Aliasscape]

OUAT in Wonderland doesn't mesh with the Once timeline at all. Alice was in a a world of Victorian England, separate from the Enchanted Forest so no she wasn't taken. Once Wonderland doesn't even start at the same year it was when Once season 3 began.

 

But in the Once world, Roland not aging makes perfect sense to me. If you were in the Enchanted Forest during the curse, you were in Cora's nonaging protective dome. Period.  The way it's been laid out (ever so not clearly), Snow's kingdom, Aurora's Kingdom, Cinderella/Prince THomas's king, King George/Prince Jame's king, King Midas's kingdom, Sherwood Forest, and Prince Eric's Kingdom were all within the Enchanted Forest.  So I don't know why it's thought Robin Hood and his men weren't in the Enchanted Forest?

[InsertWordHere]

Originally, I thought the Wonderland timeline could only work if time in all the realms, including Victorian Fantasyland, was frozen during the curse, because that's the only way to explain Will being in Storybrooke for 28 years and Alice not aging during the same time. But if time was frozen in all the realms, then it makes no sense that the ogres were able to take over the Enchanted Forest. The Cora dome had to have been the only thing preventing time from passing in the Enchanted Forest.

 

Maybe Will wasn't cursed and came to Storybrooke later, but that would be hard to buy, because Emma and later August were the first people to arrive in Storybrooke since Henry's birth, and their arrivals were focused on as a big deal in Season One. Regina would not have allowed Will to just stroll into town and make himself at home in his rather nice apartment. But how was Will able to keep possession of his heart if he was cursed? I would think it would have somehow ended up in either Regina's vault or Gold's shop. Will, being presumably cursed until almost immediately before the rabbit came to collect him (an event which most assume occurred on the night of the wraith attack in 2.01 the very same day Emma broke the Curse) would not have known that his heart was outside of his body.

 

Basically, I'm very confused.

[formerlyfreedom]

Basically, I'm very confused.

 

I think the key is, don't overthink it. There's no way at all that this makes sense in a logical way.

 

That said, I still find it fun to try and make sense of it! A co-worker and I talk all the time about the room of post-its, twine, and tacks that the writers have to keep track of things, and it's gotta be nuts!

[Camera One]

The Wonderland spinoff is supposed to occur in the "Once" universe, so it should be consistent with the parent show. But I agree with the above, that it doesn't really work.

I suppose time in Victorian Novel Land could work differently, but if anything, time there travels faster than Wonderland, since Alice came back from what she thought was a short trip, and her father said she was gone for a very long time. Maybe I'll just pretend that in Victorian Novel Land, time works like a book. When "pages" are not being turned, time stands still and no one ages. And sometimes, the pages are flipped fast and time rushes by. So the 28 years Will was in Storybrooke = the "year" Alice spent at the asylum.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

The range of the curse seems to vary by plot. Curse 1 got Eric but apparently not Ariel, but then Ariel doesn't seem to have aged during the 28 years, so either the Coradome covered part of the sea or mermaids don't age normally. Curse 2 seems to have been more geographically limited, since Eric and Ariel were out of range and Hook was able to outrun it and then find a place out of the curse to sell the Jolly Roger. The Wonderland stuff gets even more mindboggling. It's a pretty good bet that time doesn't pass the same between all worlds -- a century passing in Neverland doesn't necessarily equal a century in the Enchanted Forest or in our world. It would also be really hard to keep track of time and know exactly how long they were in Neverland. Even Bae eventually gave up marking off the days. Less than a century seemed to have passed between Bae's first visit to our world and his return, but Hook seems to have been away from the Enchanted forest for centuries.

 

As for Roland's age, I'd buy him as five. I direct a kindergarten choir (because I've apparently been a very bad person and deserve to be punished), and I've had kids who looked about that age -- and, weirdly, they were among the oldest in the group. I had one who turned six early in the school year who still looked (and acted) younger than some of the preschoolers, even at the end of the school year. These seem to be kids who are tiny for their age, who maintain somewhat babyish features and who have an air of innocence about them.

[Aliasscape]

For the record, the actor that plays Roland (Raphael Alejandro) is now six.  It makes sense to cast a small 5 or 6 year old who could take direction better etc. than a 4 year old. 

 

That said, I still find it fun to try and make sense of it! A co-worker and I talk all the time about the room of post-its, twine, and tacks that the writers have to keep track of things, and it's gotta be nuts!

 

So nuts they apparently do not read it at all because they constantly contradict the idea that they have a timeline by putting together episodes that MAKE NO SENSE. They constantly have characters knowing things they shouldn't know by the timeline but whatever.

[Camera One]

Neal was shot in the chest with a .38, fell through a portal and laid face down on the beach until Aurora and co found him, yet all he had to show for it was a tiny hole in his shirt. He should have been a bloody mess and at the very least his shirt would have been a total write off, but no he was wearing the same clothes in Neverland as he was when he got shot in Storybrooke.

 

Then again, Neal probably shouldn't have been able to be up and about until a week later minimum. So it's not like that lack of blood was the biggest stretching of disbelief there!

 

The clothes worn by these characters are surprisingly resilient!  

 

Speaking of clothes, it was strange how Charming came back to the Enchanted Forest after Pan's Curse with his bloody shirt, while Snow somehow got a cloak even though she didn't leave with one?  

[InsertWordHere]

 

Speaking of clothes, it was strange how Charming came back to the Enchanted Forest after Pan's Curse with his bloody shirt, while Snow somehow got a cloak even though she didn't leave with one?

I can't really figure out the reasoning behind the clothing for each character. Regina and Charming are both in the outfits they were wearing when the curse was cast, yet Snow is not in her nightgown. I'd say this was done in an effort to hide her real life pregnancy, but post-delivery Snow was in a loose-fitting nightgown, so that doesn't really make sense. Neal obviously would have issues if he got stuck in Baelfire's old clothes. Belle is in the gold dress she wore on her first chronological appearance, not in the prison dress she would have been in when the curse struck, unless Regina dressed her up beforehand because Regina is just that messed up, so maybe (she did make Emma change into a peasant dress for her prison stay). Hook was also not wearing the red vest when he went into the Coradome, he had on the black velvet vest. I believe the last chronological appearance of the red vest before the first curse was in his scene with Tink in Neverland. Then everyone except Hook, Regina, and Neal ended up getting new outfits offscreen, IIRC.

 

I remember discussing this at length (remember how excited most of us were that they were back in the Enchanted Forest? I think we came up with numerous scenarios that probably would have been way better than the wasted missing year turned out to be) on the old spoiler thread and I believe the general consensus was that they were all in their most memorable outfits.

[KAOS Agent]

I'd say it was to hide Ginny's pregnancy, but since she'd just given birth when the curse hit, it was a very loose, flowing thing so it shouldn't have been a problem. It was also a very clean, white gown. Births must be incredibly clean in the Enchanted Forest. The cloak was probably more because that thing was more of a sheer nightgown thing and wouldn't have been appropriate for wandering around the picnic gazebo.

 

That said, I do wonder why Belle was wearing the gold gown when they were dumped back in the Enchanted Forest. She certainly wasn't wearing that as a prisoner in Regina's tower. And why is she wearing a rather ratty cloak over it? Wouldn't she at least rate something nice to go with the gown?

Edited June 17, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[stealinghome]

I believe the general consensus was that they were all in their most memorable outfits.

Yeah, this is pretty much what I've settled on--their most memorable/iconic outfits (with an exception for Snow, to hide Ginny's pregnancy and also so that the poor woman didn't freeze to death while pregnant). You could probably argue that the characters all came back to an outfit that they had the greatest affective link to.

 

And I think they changed Hook's clothing simply to indicate that he, too, had been taken to a new land. It would be kind of weird if everyone's clothing but his had changed.

[kili]

And I think they changed Hook's clothing simply to indicate that he, too, had been taken to a new land. It would be kind of weird if everyone's clothing but his had changed.

 

It was also probably in anticipation of the final episode which they would have had roughly mapped out at that time (that past and present Hook would meet so they would need a change of clothing to indicate who was who). They needed us to to think of red-vested Hook as being the Enchanted Forest version.

 

The curse seems to come with a make-over plug-in that changes your clothes (I can see that appealing to Regina). What is perhaps stranger is that an uncursed Hook ends up back in his black vest by the time he gets to New York. After he got the Jolly Roger back, did he go back to the same tailor and request he re-make that great black vest he purchased 30 years ago? Or does he have a closet full of those identical vests in the Jolly Roger and once he got the ship back, he just put on another one?

[Shanna Marie]

Or does he have a closet full of those identical vests in the Jolly Roger and once he got the ship back, he just put on another one?

I would hope he had at least one change of clothes on his ship. It is funny that when he's "good" he's dressed all in black and when he's closer to "bad" he wears more color, counter to Hollywood tradition.

[Camera One]

There were a number of unanswered questions leftover from 3B. As usual after a season, I wonder how many of these will ever be addressed. I suppose some of them are supposed to be assumed.

- Where did Zelena send Dorothy?

- Why did Zelena set up a door for the pure of heart in her "prison" for Glinda?

- Why didn't Glinda get sent to Storybrooke?

- How did Zelena learn how to cast the spell to change the past?

- Where did Hook get another bean?

- Why didn't Zelena want to use Aurora and Philip's baby?

- How does Zelena know everything that's happening anywhere and everywhere unless it suits the plot?

I was reading the TVLine interview more carefully, and there was that question about the Flying Monkeys.

TVLINE | And one last bit of housekeeping: All of the friendlies who were turned by Zelena into flying monkeys were returned safely?

HOROWITZ | Yes. We saw Aurora smiling happily at the baby naming…. Grumpy explained that she did not give birth to a flying monkey. What happened with her was the pregnancy was put into stasis as she was monkey-fied. Now she’s back to where she was.

Does this mean shooting the Flying Monkeys didn't kill them even though they exploded like fireworks? The answer didn't really answer the question since it just addressed Aurora. So does that mean Walsh is alive too? If so, why didn't he show up in Storybrooke? Did the writers even think about what Exploding Flying Monkeys mean?

[retrograde]

How are Hook, Tink, Aurora, Robin, and many others getting by in Storybrooke with no money or jobs? Is Granny just giving them food and board for free? 

[Camera One]

Yeah, they've still never answered (and probably will never answer) the practical workings of day-to-day life in Storybrooke. If someone decides to quit their assigned job, then what? Do the stores magically change their stock based on the anticipated supply and demand according to the employment figures? Does Granny really spend all day cooking? If she decides to do a new spin - aspagarus lasagna, produced in bulk, will the grocery store shipments immediately reflect that? If a bunch of garbage collectors quit, will the garbage accumulate or will the Curse "take care of it"?

Good point about those characters "new" to Storybrooke without an established identity from the prior Curse. Did the Curse provide Zelena with that farmhouse, or did she seize it? Little John apparently bought that archery set from a store, but with what money? I'm assuming Tinkerbelle lives at the Convent with Mother Superior. Without the Cursed memories, is Blue still planning the Annual Miners Day and ordering candles? Where exactly did those candles come from anyway? If Blue placed an online order, where did the money actually go?

[formerlyfreedom]

Where does a pirate find waterproof guy-liner on the high seas? And in Storybrooke?

[stealinghome]

- How does Zelena know everything that's happening anywhere and everywhere unless it suits the plot?

Yeah, one of my biggest unanswered questions from 3B is how Zelena knew that they'd all be coming back from Storybrooke! The other stuff I can kind of handwave away with "Zelena has a crystal ball" or some such, but that one takes the cake for me in terms of sheer contrivance.

[retrograde]

One thing I'm sure they'll never address, but I'd love to know, is how the fairies feel about being nuns when the curse is broken. Can they reconcile Christianity with everything they know about magic and other worlds? (And I'm not saying they can't, but it seems like it would have provoked a pretty massive question of identity; more so than those who were, like, farmers in the EF and are now mechanics in Storybrooke, or something).

[Camera One]

Yeah, one of my biggest unanswered questions from 3B is how Zelena knew that they'd all be coming back from Storybrooke!

That made no sense, since Aurora says Zelena asked her to alert her as soon as Snow and Charming came back. Plus Snow wasn't even pregnant at that point.

Unless Glinda's book had something about it? They were really vague about that book too. Was it a bunch of vague prophesies? That's what it seemed from "The 4th Witch will arrive via Tornado and Glinda shall not make contact until her soul has turned green".

[YaddaYadda]

About the fairies, how do they feel about being so unbelievably useless?  They're there, but they might as well be back in the Enchanted Forest doing...nothing. How do they feel about Shady McShady?

[Rumsy4]

One thing I'm sure they'll never address, but I'd love to know, is how the fairies feel about being nuns when the curse is broken. Can they reconcile Christianity with everything they know about magic and other worlds? (And I'm not saying they can't, but it seems like it would have provoked a pretty massive question of identity; more so than those who were, like, farmers in the EF and are now mechanics in Storybrooke, or something).

 

There is a fantastic CS AU fic (Peace I leave With You) where Hook came over with the Curse and was given a Curse identity as an episcopal priest. The fic shows his struggle in dealing with the dichotomy of the two personas. However, Blue and the other fairies don't seem to have any "we are both" struggles with respect to their Storybrooke identity as nuns. 

[stealinghome]

About the fairies, how do they feel about being so unbelievably useless?  They're there, but they might as well be back in the Enchanted Forest doing...nothing. How do they feel about Shady McShady?

YaddaYadda, you owe me a new screen. Bwah!

[Camera One]

About the fairies, how do they feel about being so unbelievably useless?  They're there, but they might as well be back in the Enchanted Forest doing...nothing. How do they feel about Shady McShady?

Replying in Blue Thread.

Speaking of Season 1 stuff, there are still some unanswered questions:

- What were Blue's final preparations before the Curse?

- Who created Henry's book of fairy tales?

- What happened to the Wolf? How did Wolf know to stop Emma from leaving Storybrooke?

[Amerilla]

Ooooh...my turn! :-)

 

- How did Zelena send Monkey Boy Walsh to NYC? How did she know Emma was there? Given the pricey-ness of setting up shop in Manhattan, how did Walsh so quickly get established and randomly chance to meet Emma in the way described in NYC Serenade? Did he actually fall in love with her, or was marrying her part of Zelena's marching orders? And if Zels went to all that trouble to keep Emma away, why did she seem so nonplussed when Emma actually shows up in Storybrooke and begins snooping around? It was six episodes before they show her trying to take Emma's magic through needlessly elaborate and in-no-way contrived Cursed Lips storyline (and it dragged on through another two episodes before anything actually happened with it.)

 

- How did Rumpel make the transit from vanishing in a blaze of gold light in Storybrooke to the Dark One's Vault in another realm? I suppose we're to intuit it was because his spirit, life-force, whatever was carried back to the vault in the dagger...but the dagger disappeared before Regina un-did the Curse. If Rumpel somehow still exists even though we saw him "die," does that mean that Pan/Malcolm is still floating around in the ether somewhere? For such a large plot point, there was remarkably little explanation.

 

- Along those same lines...How did Zelena know Belle and Neal would go to the Dark Castle to try to resurrect Rumpel? She had Lumiere in place with his story well before they arrived. And while I get the life-for-a-life clause in the resurrection, meaning she couldn't do it herself, why did she just sit around waiting for Belle and Neal to show up and follow the breadcrumbs? She couldn't have just forced Lumiere or one of her monkey minions to make the sacrifice? If she needed Rumpel's brain for her Master Plan, wouldn't she be a bit concerned that the moment he absorbed Neal, his brain went completely haywire? It took Emma about five seconds to drag him free of Rumpel in Storybrooke - why didn't Zelena just do that in the EF? She didn't care if he died, and she had the dagger, so it wasn't like Rumpel could rebel (not to mention, you'd think she'd want him as muscle in the EF.) There was no hint that only light magic would do the trick. Also: If Rumpel hadn't focused entirely on Neal and been weakened in the process, how did she plan to get the dagger away from him? In other words, how could she calculate that Rumpel wouldn't take the six seconds it would have taken to just  stand up and stab her with the dagger and then turn his attention to his dying loved one? Or just hand it to Belle, which would have given her control of him and protected both of them both while he tended to Neal?.  

 

- Why didn't Zelena try to kill Belle or have Rumpel kill her when she got control of him back? If she was still at least partly in love with Rumpel, and wanted to hurt him enough to somehow engineer Neal's demise, wouldn't she also naturally want to kill Rumpel's True Love? It's not like Belle was being protected at any point. (Sorry, I just don't see leaving Hook - who, presumably, doesn't have any way to neutralize a witch - with her for a couple of hours counting for much in the grand scheme of things)

 

- Rumpel went instantly and completely nuts the moment he absorbed Neal into his body and his consciousness, and he stayed that way until Emma separated them and Neal died - one too many voices in his head. Neal, on the other hand, seemed sane as a judge when he momentarily broke through in 'A Curious Thing.' He wasn't speaking in gibberish, he was aware of what was going on around them, and he instantly formed a plan and get a note and the memory portion off to Hook. So, why did he seemingly stay sane while Rumpel didn't? 

 

- ...and while we're on that subject: it was a really short note. If memory serves, Hook said it was un-signed. Did they call backsies on that later in the season and I just missed it? Because that would mean that, after a year of moping around, he suddenly leaps into action because of a bird carrying an anonymous note and a mysterious bottle of liquid and instantly does what should have been impossible: portal back to this world. How did he portal, when Regina was saying (in "A Curious Thing") that there were no more portals, no more beans, no other way to get back to Emma  than Dark Curse 2.0. And since he did it solo, apparently right before Curse 2.0 hit, doesn't that somewhat undercut the sacrifice of David dying and Snow giving up half her heart to get them all there? The danger wasn't so imminent that Snowing and Regina couldn't have had the thought "hey, we need Emma and we need her here before the Snowfalke is born? Maybe we should take five minutes and storyboard some alternate plans to send a person she knows - Hook, Granny, Ruby, Belle, good lord, Emma knew a lot of people who could have performed the task - through some sort of portal with some sort of memory potion and bring her here? Because bringing us all back there is going to be a bitch of a move."

 

- Did we ever figure out how much time passed between Storybrooke reappearing and Hook finding Emma in NYC to bring her back? Neal sent Hook the note right before the new curse (Zelena gave Rumpel the bottle of memory stuff because the curse was on its way). Without the enchanted sail, the JR shouldn't be able to hopscotch through realms without help - a bean, whatever. So, in the presumably brief time it took the Curse to spread across the EF and it's seas, Hook got the note, found someone to trade his ship to in return for some sort of heretofore unmentioned portal to this world, and slipped through with his memory intact. Then, with no ship, no possessions, and presumably very little real-world money, he sets off to find Emma in a world he should have no real working knowledge of (do we seriously think he went to a library computer and Googled Emma's name?), figures out that she and Henry settled in NYC (how would he or Neal know she had settled there? She lived in Boston before Storybrooke, and it's not even clear either man would know that.), and, in a city of eight million people, tracks her down to her apartment door in a (presumably for a well-off single mother and young son a dangerous city) secured building? That seems like something that might take some time. Snow's belly, on the other hand, indicates that we were talking days, not weeks. 

 

Whew. That's not even all the things that sprang to mind, and I think it hits on three out of the 11 episodes just in 3b!

 

 

Little John apparently bought that archery set from a store, but with what money?

 

That I think I can answer. I believe it was heavily implied that he stole it.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Amerilla

[Camera One]

Awesome questions. I had forgotten I had wondered a lot of those as Season 3B progressed. It's almost like they answered the insignificant questions, or kept creating new questions while not even addressing the premise.

I presume we will eventually get to find out how the Dark One was first created and/or entered the Enchanted Forest? Since Blue said his powers are not of their world? The "Quiet Minds" episode did not really reveal much mythology about the Dark One. I mean, why was Rumple's entire consciousness intact when the Dark One was "resurrected"? I can buy why the physical manifestation is the same as the previous Dark One, but why did Rumple basically come back to life?

Edited June 30, 2014 by Camera One

[retrograde]

- Who created Henry's book of fairy tales?

 

I recall the show runners saying ages ago that this would be addressed. Who knows if they've forgotten about that, though.

[Dani-Ellie]

How did he portal, when Regina was saying (in "A Curious Thing") that there were no more portals, no more beans, no other way to get back to Emma  than Dark Curse 2.0. And since he did it solo, apparently right before Curse 2.0 hit, doesn't that somewhat undercut the sacrifice of David dying and Snow giving up half her heart to get them all there?

 

Hook said he got the note, ditched his crew, and used the Jolly Roger to outrun the curse. As I understood it, reversing the original curse closed the doors to the Land Without Magic from the magical lands but not necessarily inter-magical-land travel, so portals and beans and whatnot would have worked to get to any other place but the Land Without Magic. Hook states that travel between the worlds was possible again after the curse was cast, and that was when he traded the Jolly Roger for the bean. I don't think he would have been able to use the bean to get to Emma otherwise. Basically, he waited for Dark Curse 2.0 to unlock the door and then he snuck in behind everyone else.

 

I, too, still want to know who or what the hell created the book. I really liked the August-is-totally-the-author theory.

[Rumsy4]

I recall the show runners saying ages ago that this would be addressed. Who knows if they've forgotten about that, though.

It seems the answer is just magic/fate though, considering it just appeared when needed.

[stealinghome]

I, too, still want to know who or what the hell created the book. I really liked the August-is-totally-the-author theory.

My personal theory is that they originally intended for August to be the author, or at least heavily involved with the book in some way, but Eion Bailey's departure forced them to change their plans.

 

I took 3x19 to be implying that the book is a product of the curse--it materializes when it knows it needs to, to help the good guys out and offer them (say it with me now) hope. This is more tenuous, but I also assumed that the book was the final preparation Blue mentioned--like the fairies were able to build some sort of back door into the curse to help the good guys.

[Camera One]

I would prefer a reveal that Blue and the Fairies prepared it (come on, writers, give them *something*), though unfortunately, I think Rumsy's theory might be correct, that it's just fate, especially with how they wrote the book "appearing" when they needed it in 3B.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Camera One

[snarkastic]

How did he portal, when Regina was saying (in "A Curious Thing") that there were no more portals, no more beans, no other way to get back to Emma  than Dark Curse 2.0.

Dani-Elle is correct about the inter-realm travelling methods not working until the curse was recast**, but I wanted to add that the last time there were beans (that weren't dried up, dead, and useless or fiercely protected by giants until James and Jack came along) was 300 years ago, when Blue gave one to Bae and Hook went to Neverland, yes? So, am I supposed to infer that the one itty bitty plant that Regina didn't burn and she kept in her office was transported back to the Enchanted Forest and Anton's been tending to it and handing them out like candy to people who would trade for the Jolly Roger? Or...? Where did the bean come from????

 

 

** I still call bs on that since Bae went to London no problem

[Shanna Marie]

I still call bs on that since Bae went to London no problem

That's the thing I'm still trying to figure out. Rumple went to all that trouble to cast the curse because he believed Bae to be in the Land Without Magic that no other means could be used to get to -- no magic bean, magic hat, or whatever else. After Bae was somehow sent there by a magical bean.

 

Was that maybe the last super turbo-charged magical bean rather than the last magical bean, period (since obviously it wasn't the last) -- the last bean capable of punching through to the World Without Magic?

 

So, am I supposed to infer that the one itty bitty plant that Regina didn't burn and she kept in her office was transported back to the Enchanted Forest and Anton's been tending to it and handing them out like candy to people who would trade for the Jolly Roger?

Now I have this mental image of Anton using the Jolly Roger as a bathtub toy, with him having been the one to buy it.