S06.E02: Janine's Story

Mothra · February 7, 2018

On 1/18/2018 at 8:43 PM, aliya said:

The one time I actually see a note on the extended edition, I learn about a cardboard box museum in France.

Yes. What's the point of these "extended editions?" I'm so annoyed my DVR records them--I see them in the listing and get happy that I have a new ep to watch, and then it's the stupid ex ed, which adds absolutely *nothing* to the original broadcast.

Mothra · February 7, 2018

On 1/26/2018 at 1:14 PM, spankydoll said:

I am 5'4'' and weigh 230. I travel frequently and find that I am comfortable in a Delta Comfort level seat. First class is the optimum and I have very good luck getting upgraded using the iPhone app. Even when I go and sit in the comfort seats I sometimes get a look from my seatmate like "Oh boy, she's going to take up all of the room" lol - I am not wide so I don't flop over the sides of the seat or armrests or anything like that and don't require a seatbelt extender. If I was flopping over the armrest and seat I would purchase two tickets or a first class seat. Period. Whitney Thore is always posting photos of herself bulging out of her airplane seat and it's just not appropriate. Flying is a privilege not a right. - if you can't afford to do it properly then stay home.

I travel frequently on Amtrak from Trenton to Miami, using a bedroom. There are handicap-accessible bedrooms on Amtrak sleeper cars, with an aisle wide enough for a wheelchair. It is more expensive than flying, but traveling this way would be so much more comfortable for these super-obese patients! You can have your meals brought to your room, and there is at least a toilet and sink in the room (I haven't explored the handicap rooms in detail, but they are so much larger than the regular bedrooms that I wouldn't be surprised if there is a shower in them, too.

CoachWristletJen · February 7, 2018

1 hour ago, Mothra said:

Yes. What's the point of these "extended editions?" I'm so annoyed my DVR records them--I see them in the listing and get happy that I have a new ep to watch, and then it's the stupid ex ed, which adds absolutely *nothing* to the original broadcast.

I know, right? It seems like there are plenty of 'fun facts' about a weirdo like Janine that they could humor us with. When she was hauled off the plane, I expected to see something like, "Torque effect is the influence of engine torque on aircraft movement and control." Or, it it was a sunny day, "The sun is 92.96 million miles from earth." Just completely random, unrelated stuff like they were smoking something in the editing room.

1 hour ago, Mothra said:

I travel frequently on Amtrak from Trenton to Miami, using a bedroom. There are handicap-accessible bedrooms on Amtrak sleeper cars, with an aisle wide enough for a wheelchair. It is more expensive than flying, but traveling this way would be so much more comfortable for these super-obese patients! You can have your meals brought to your room, and there is at least a toilet and sink in the room (I haven't explored the handicap rooms in detail, but they are so much larger than the regular bedrooms that I wouldn't be surprised if there is a shower in them, too.

That would have been better for Janine.

Edited February 7, 2018 by CoachWristletJen

Mrs. Hanson · February 7, 2018

On 2/5/2018 at 10:02 AM, CoachWristletJen said:

I thought she might need at least four or five egg-like orbs inside her belly to make a dent into what she was eating all day every day.

You didn't miss much. As predicted, Janine sobbed and whined throughout the procedure. The woman who scarfed down huge fork-loads of food throughout the entire show had trouble swallowing the collapsed balloon which was the size of a large vitamin.

She was really a class A whiner about that, wasn't she? She shovels food in right and left but an object the size of a big vitamin that WILL ASSIST TO SAVE HER LIFE....whine whine whine.

auntjess · February 7, 2018

3 hours ago, Mothra said:

What's the point of these "extended editions?" I'm so annoyed my DVR records them

You really have to check what your DVR has scheduled, especially with TLC shows.
Not only will you get the "bonus" shows, but sometimes they'll split a 2-hour show into part 1 and part 2 shows, and give each a new original air date.

TVbitch · March 5, 2018

Just catching up on this season. Poor Janine. As soon as she said she was 53 and living alone and had little support or socialization, I knew she would fail. I went through that with alcoholism. Isolation cements you in your addiction, and the older you get and the longer it goes on, the harder it is to break that down.

I really really wish this show would address the mental illness aspects immediately and seriously in this process. Cannot believe they made Janine endure that airplane shit. It looked like torture. The woman needs love and some reasons to live, not punishment.

Having said that I totally get why everyone would be frustrated and angry with her. She is so far gone.

aliya · March 5, 2018

1 hour ago, TVbitch said:

Just catching up on this season. Poor Janine. As soon as she said she was 53 and living alone and had little support or socialization, I knew she would fail. I went through that with alcoholism. Isolation cements you in your addiction, and the older you get and the longer it goes on, the harder it is to break that down.

I really really wish this show would address the mental illness aspects immediately and seriously in this process. Cannot believe they made Janine endure that airplane shit. It looked like torture. The woman needs love and some reasons to live, not punishment.

Having said that I totally get why everyone would be frustrated and angry with her. She is so far gone.

I don't think they made her do anything; just like they didn't make other people on the show ride in small cars or stretch out in the back of a van. I imagine she thought it would be the faster, and less painful, route to Dr. Now, compared to driving from Seattle, but it didn't work out that way.

She wanted to be on the show or have the surgery paid for. As she herself mentions, someone in Seattle could have started her on a program. Had she done this, she might have been able to have the surgery in Seattle or be in better condition to travel to Houston. She didn't do it. She put all of the responsibility on Dr.Now ("If he doesn't help, I guess he'll just let me die." ) instead of on herself. She couldn't comply even after she got to Houston.

I understand that being alone was problematic for her. It may have even contributed to her addiction, but she had multiple opportunities locally and thru Dr Now to start changing and she didn't pursue any of them. It's hard for me to be sympathetic. I actually paid for this episode on amazon and have watched it a few times because I did want to take time to get a real feeling for her vs the fast and snarky comments that happen when the show airs. I'm still not a fan.

Gargamel · March 9, 2018

I was half-way expecting an announcement she had passed, and they had found her cat eating her remains.

LoreliLee · March 10, 2018

I think this was the most disturbing episode of this series I’ve ever watched. It took me quite a while to finish viewing. Like Gargamel, I thought she would pass away during filming. I hope there’s some sort of follow-up to this. I hate to admit it but alot of what she was expressing (in the beginning) really hit home. I’ll leave it at that.

jerseydeviljohn · March 25, 2018

Did anyone else see her make that strange shrug when she sprayed the REDI WHIP in her mouth?

Phoebe70 · April 12, 2018

I learned a lot during this episode:

1. You can gain 63 pounds in a week.

2. A 678 pound person can be bulimic.

3. You can order from the McDonald's drive-thru on a scooter.

auntjess · April 12, 2018

1 hour ago, Phoebe70 said:

I learned a lot during this episode:

1. You can gain 63 pounds in a week.

2. A 678 pound person can be bulimic.

3. You can order from the McDonald's drive-thru on a scooter.

Now you know why it's called The Learning Channel.

aliya · April 17, 2018

On 4/12/2018 at 1:48 PM, auntjess said:

Now you know why it's called The Learning Channel.

Note to self - stop reading this sh#t at work. You know you cannot explain to coworkers why you've wet your pants. : )

auntjess · April 17, 2018

OK, am I the only one who'll go back and reread the live chats, and laugh again, just as hard as the first time?
I'll miss this.
Maybe we could schedule a live chat on a repeat of one of the epic ones, likes James K.

auntjess · May 8, 2018

On 1/18/2018 at 9:21 AM, AVM said:

The biggest shock of show wasn't her delusional childhood memories or hospital Bulimia,but its the fact Janine is only 5 ft 3 yet weighs more than 5 average women .together ..no wonder her bones and joints hurt.

I watched this again, saw that she started at 678.
At the end of the recording, was the first part of a Family by the Ton, and we see Drew, a really big, tall guy, being weighed. He was 655.
That really put Janine in perspective for me. Wow.

OoogleEyes · June 1, 2018

I've been away from watching stuff on TLC, but since there's nothing much on TV now I thought I'd watch an episode or two. Yeesh. Talk about addiction.

I just watched this one, and I'm not very confident that we'll see a "where is she now" in the near future.

Oh, I think that I'll read the live chat when i watch this next one.

Hey, I can stop anytime I want.

toodles · June 1, 2018

11 hours ago, OoogleEyes said:

Hey, I can stop anytime I want.

Yeah, well, good luck with that. You're one of us now.

CoachWristletJen · June 27, 2018

7 hours ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

I agree with all of you guys. She doesn't have anyone in her life who values her so she doesn't value herself. And then people value her even less because they think "she doesn't REALLY want to get better" or "she doesn't do anything to help her situation" or "she's too whiny and manipulative" and so on. Also her social isolation probably makes her harder to be around over time, because not socially interacting with people causes an increase in mental illness and a decrease in social skills in almost all cases. It is a vicious cycle that happens with a lot of addicts of various types. I think what a lot of people don't get is that this is an addiction and anyone who actually has those coping skills probably isn't going to get to 600+ pounds in the first place. No offense but I hope some of the commenters on this thread never have a person with suicidal depression in their life because this type of harsh "stop being a baby" attitude is exactly what pushes people over the edge into killing themselves (actually my mom, who was abusive in many other respects, had that attitude with me when I was suicidal as a teenager and that's a major reason why I no longer have contact with her). And committing suicide is exactly what she is doing.

Even Dr. Now doesn't seem to fully get the psychological aspect of it. Honestly these patients should be in a structured inpatient rehab and if healthcare was less shitty in the US they probably would be. They shouldn't just be sent home to fend for themselves. It's the equivalent of having an outpatient appointment with a heroin addict and instead of sending them to rehab, sending them back home with a plan that says "don't do heroin." Addiction simply doesn't work that way in most cases. The whole point of rehab and halfway houses is to re-educate people on how to live a normal life.

This episode should be required viewing for all of the Tumblrina "health at every size activists" out there. She was basically the 80s/90s version of those people and look where she is now.

How do you know she wasn't? Psychiatric medication isn't 100% effective. However it's also not as easy to get a prescription for anti-anxiety drugs these days with all the War on Drugs stuff. If she can't physically get to a doctor she's probably not going to get them prescribed. My brother had a similar issue recently, he was agoraphobic and couldn't leave the house for months and he couldn't get any medication because he couldn't get to the doctor, and when he finally did get to the doctor all they would give him was antidepressants which didn't work.

(My first response above was also to this comment, but I don't know how to rearrange the order of quoted comments.)

Also sidenote, it seems that almost every time someone has a panic attack or other high anxiety symptoms on this show they're accused of being "manipulative." As a person with lifelong anxiety, OCD, and PTSD, I have been accused of being manipulative before when having anxiety symptoms and I think it's a common thing because people just can't understand why someone would seemingly overreact to what seems to them like a not that bad situation. But it just shows a lack of understanding of the nature of anxiety. In most cases people don't have panic attacks to be "dramatic" even if it seems like they are being dramatic. In most cases the last thing they want to do is to be having a panic attack in public, which is embarrassing. But it's a thing which is very difficult to control if you have an anxiety disorder and the anxiety becomes so overwhelming that it supersedes all else.

I think Dr. Now was trying to make do with the best that society ever would or could be able to offer someone like Janine. Realistically, I don't think she would ever be able to take care of herself. And, she was very sick. A person doesn't get to be 600 pounds, barely able to walk or move, still eating and gaining, without being every bit as mentally sick as an anorexic weighing 70 pounds. However, we live in a world where people who work two jobs can't afford dental care. (I'm not going in that direction here on this board. I promise!)

Janine would need a live in caregiver as well as other medical staff in order to help her get healthy if she was ever going to have a fighting chance. And, even then, she would probably wear out her caregiver with her manipulations and tantrums and arguments. The biggest factor is the fact that Janine didn't seem to want to get better. She wanted to feel better and to be healthy and lose weight, but she didn't want to do the work of getting better. When she was in this hospital, which was expensive, she complained bitterly about wanting to go home. In the hospital I'm sure she had a lot more care and social stimulation than she was getting at home, but she didn't have the food. Janine made me think of an alcoholic who didn't want to go through the treatment. She did agree to get the balloon in her stomach, but I think she was looking to that as a magic bullet. I hope it helped her, but I'm not so sure. Without serious therapy and continued intervention, the balloon won't work for her. There are some online photos of her still seated in her scooter, and they appear photoshopped to me and even with that she doesn't look necessarily thinner. My personal opinion is that she is not losing, but I hope I'm wrong. I think she's still living under the delusion that she has time, in spite of what Dr. Now has said. Dr. Now was harsh, but appeared desperate to light a fire under her ass in the little time that he had with her. Her family appeared tired and fed up, but loving. I think Janine may also suffer from a personality disorder in addition to the eating disorder. We did see her rope her sister-in-law into dropping everything and helping her move. I don't know how much her eating disorder contributed to her manipulations or her possible personality disorder contributed to her eating disorder or how much she was a manipulative person to begin with who just happened to contract an eating disorder. I do know that her sister-in-law seemed at her wit's end and was struggling to keep it together on camera. My guess is she had asked them to participate in the show and they had respectfully declined. Then when Janine had yet another crisis, the sister-in-law had little choice but to fly out there, participate on camera, and figure out solutions for Janine, who clearly could not have handled the move herself without help even if she had been able to ride on the second airplane. Mental illness is a big factor here, but unless we have no free will, personal choice comes into it as well. Regardless, hers is a sad situation all around.

BuyMoreAndSave · June 27, 2018

3 hours ago, CoachWristletJen said:

I think Dr. Now was trying to make do with the best that society ever would or could be able to offer someone like Janine. Realistically, I don't think she would ever be able to take care of herself. And, she was very sick. A person doesn't get to be 600 pounds, barely able to walk or move, still eating and gaining, without being every bit as mentally sick as an anorexic weighing 70 pounds. However, we live in a world where people who work two jobs can't afford dental care. (I'm not going in that direction here on this board. I promise!)

Janine would need a live in caregiver as well as other medical staff in order to help her get healthy if she was ever going to have a fighting chance. And, even then, she would probably wear out her caregiver with her manipulations and tantrums and arguments. The biggest factor is the fact that Janine didn't seem to want to get better. She wanted to feel better and to be healthy and lose weight, but she didn't want to do the work of getting better. When she was in this hospital, which was expensive, she complained bitterly about wanting to go home. In the hospital I'm sure she had a lot more care and social stimulation than she was getting at home, but she didn't have the food. Janine made me think of an alcoholic who didn't want to go through the treatment. She did agree to get the balloon in her stomach, but I think she was looking to that as a magic bullet. I hope it helped her, but I'm not so sure. Without serious therapy and continued intervention, the balloon won't work for her. There are some online photos of her still seated in her scooter, and they appear photoshopped to me and even with that she doesn't look necessarily thinner. My personal opinion is that she is not losing, but I hope I'm wrong. I think she's still living under the delusion that she has time, in spite of what Dr. Now has said. Dr. Now was harsh, but appeared desperate to light a fire under her ass in the little time that he had with her. Her family appeared tired and fed up, but loving. I think Janine may also suffer from a personality disorder in addition to the eating disorder. We did see her rope her sister-in-law into dropping everything and helping her move. I don't know how much her eating disorder contributed to her manipulations or her possible personality disorder contributed to her eating disorder or how much she was a manipulative person to begin with who just happened to contract an eating disorder. I do know that her sister-in-law seemed at her wit's end and was struggling to keep it together on camera. My guess is she had asked them to participate in the show and they had respectfully declined. Then when Janine had yet another crisis, the sister-in-law had little choice but to fly out there, participate on camera, and figure out solutions for Janine, who clearly could not have handled the move herself without help even if she had been able to ride on the second airplane. Mental illness is a big factor here, but unless we have no free will, personal choice comes into it as well. Regardless, hers is a sad situation all around.

There are other inpatient clinics for extreme obesity though in the US, and there are thousands of rehabs for other addictions all around the US, so it's not true that society would not be able to offer more care. You say "Janine made me think of an alcoholic who didn't want to go through the treatment," but plenty of alcoholics, even ones as bad off as she was, recover after going through inpatient rehab and maybe living in a halfway house. Fewer of them recover without these supportive measures. The point is that the standard of care for food addiction is currently poor compared to the standard of care for other addictions (and even those are not great either). Not to get political, but with healthcare costs so high, we as a society should be getting better service and the insurance companies are clearly scamming us.

She barely interacted on-camera with her SIL so I'm not sure where you got the impression that she had a personality disorder based on that. Her SIL agreed to help her move but I don't think they showed them planning the move on camera. Are you possibly getting her mixed up with Erica? Again this raises the question of, why does she have to beg family members to help her rather than having a temporary caregiver?

So basically a person's chance of getting treatment is a popularity contest, dependent on whether they have friends and family to help them or not? Again this is a general problem in the US where families have to do the work, often without any compensation, that the healthcare system was supposed to do, or else the patient will die.

This isn't just for mental illness either. I've experienced it before when my MIL was released from the hospital after almost a year, most of which was spent on a ventilator. When she was released, she was barely able to walk or talk, unable to bend down, and hardly able to get up unassisted, yet the only care she was given was a home health aide who came for about two hours twice a week (and she had supposedly good insurance!) We had no choice but to have her move in with us and it was very stressful finding a new apartment that could accommodate her. The home health aide actually stopped coming after a few weeks even though she was still having difficulty showering unassisted, and they gave us very short notice on this. The hospital never even asked us whether we were able to have her move in or take care of her, but rather just assumed that we would figure it out. If we hadn't done it she probably would have fallen and gotten injured. In fact if I was working at the time she probably would have gotten injured too, but since I was home I was able to help her until she regained mobility. But if she didn't have any family or if her family was unable to help, what would have happened, would they have just left her to die? We need to stop making healthcare into a popularity contest.

Edited June 27, 2018 by BuyMoreAndSave

Elizzikra · June 27, 2018

Quote

We need to stop making healthcare into a popularity contest.

It's less about popularity and more about resources. People who have resources (money, family support, friends, etc) get care. People who don't have resources don't get care. It shouldn't be that way but it is. As you note, there are a ton of rehabs for all sorts of things all over the country but if you can't afford them, you don't get treatment.

Mothra · June 27, 2018

1 hour ago, Elizzikra said:

It's less about popularity and more about resources. People who have resources (money, family support, friends, etc) get care. People who don't have resources don't get care. It shouldn't be that way but it is. As you note, there are a ton of rehabs for all sorts of things all over the country but if you can't afford them, you don't get treatment.

I had the unhappy experience of dealing with addiction treatment facilities' availability Monday night. A close relative who is an alcoholic and who has been going downhill for a long time now, ended up in the suicide watch ward of the local ER (for saying "I wish I was dead"--take heed, folks: Dr. Now warned us about this kind of talk). She finally agreed to be placed in an inpatient rehab facility, and the nurse practitioner trotted off to find her a place. We had a list of several pages of closely-typed addresses of rehab places and assumed there'd be no problem--besides excellent health insurance and Medicare, this person is wealthy and could afford to pay out-of-pocket. There were *no* beds available anywhere within a five-hour drive. We stayed with her until 10 pm; the NP told us she would stay in the hospital until they found her a bed in rehab. Tuesday a.m. her husband called to tell us they had been unable to find her a bed in inpatient rehab and had sent her to an inpatient detox facility for a week.

This woman has everything you mention--insurance, money friends, family support--and she could not get into a rehab facility when she was in crisis. I'm not sure the resources are there, and when you go from drug/alcohol addiction, which most people take more seriously than food addiction, I suspect the resources are even more scarce.

CoachWristletJen · June 28, 2018

8 hours ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

There are other inpatient clinics for extreme obesity though in the US, and there are thousands of rehabs for other addictions all around the US, so it's not true that society would not be able to offer more care. You say "Janine made me think of an alcoholic who didn't want to go through the treatment," but plenty of alcoholics, even ones as bad off as she was, recover after going through inpatient rehab and maybe living in a halfway house. Fewer of them recover without these supportive measures. The point is that the standard of care for food addiction is currently poor compared to the standard of care for other addictions (and even those are not great either). Not to get political, but with healthcare costs so high, we as a society should be getting better service and the insurance companies are clearly scamming us.

She barely interacted on-camera with her SIL so I'm not sure where you got the impression that she had a personality disorder based on that. Her SIL agreed to help her move but I don't think they showed them planning the move on camera. Are you possibly getting her mixed up with Erica? Again this raises the question of, why does she have to beg family members to help her rather than having a temporary caregiver?

So basically a person's chance of getting treatment is a popularity contest, dependent on whether they have friends and family to help them or not? Again this is a general problem in the US where families have to do the work, often without any compensation, that the healthcare system was supposed to do, or else the patient will die.

This isn't just for mental illness either. I've experienced it before when my MIL was released from the hospital after almost a year, most of which was spent on a ventilator. When she was released, she was barely able to walk or talk, unable to bend down, and hardly able to get up unassisted, yet the only care she was given was a home health aide who came for about two hours twice a week (and she had supposedly good insurance!) We had no choice but to have her move in with us and it was very stressful finding a new apartment that could accommodate her. The home health aide actually stopped coming after a few weeks even though she was still having difficulty showering unassisted, and they gave us very short notice on this. The hospital never even asked us whether we were able to have her move in or take care of her, but rather just assumed that we would figure it out. If we hadn't done it she probably would have fallen and gotten injured. In fact if I was working at the time she probably would have gotten injured too, but since I was home I was able to help her until she regained mobility. But if she didn't have any family or if her family was unable to help, what would have happened, would they have just left her to die? We need to stop making healthcare into a popularity contest.

I'm very sorry to hear about your mother-in-law! It's a blessing that she had you to care for her. And yes, it is scary to think what would have happened if she didn't have a loving family nearby.

It's very true that if Janine were to live in a clinic for an extended period of time, she might feel empowered and decide to stick with it on her own. From what I've observed of the clinics, they are outrageously expensive and may well die a slow death due to the health care crisis in this country. I've seen clinics where they keep super morbidly obese people for months at a time. Since they're usually in bad health at that point, they require round the clock medical supervision. This can cost over $1000 a day. Substance abuse treatment is usually 28 days. If people move on to a halfway house, it's an entirely different situation where they are working and paying a nominal amount of rent. Now, if they offer a 28-day program, then Janine might respond quite well to it and be able to get some help. Even good insurance plans don't usually begin to pay for either type of treatment. It's just too expensive. Even if Janine wanted treatment, I don't know who would pay for such a thing. Dr. Now probably realized that it just wasn't a realistic option for her because she didn't have 30K or more to fork over. Insurance is paying less and less, and people simply don't have the money to pay for it. I don't want to get political but sadly, I don't see the U.S. mitigating the problem any time soon.

As for the move, earlier in the episode, Janine lamented that her family wouldn't be helping her so I don't think the two of them were planning the move together. However, when Janine didn't get on the second plane, she was stuck, basically in a crisis, and it was one she couldn't figure her way out of. So, her sister-in-law took a last minute flight to Texas and arranged transport for Janine. And, when she was there, it became obvious that Janine wasn't going to be able to move in by herself. She didn't seem to have the wherewithal and she certainly didn't have the inclination. Her sister-in-law wound up accompanying her to her appointment, and if you watch her, she is polite, but very tired and frazzled. Two days before she didn't expect to have Janine's move thrust upon her. I'm sure she had her own life to live, but they just couldn't leave her in Dallas to flounder. When Janine starts carrying on about not being able to step on the scale, the poor sister-in-law almost loses it, and she says, exasperated, "Just step up, Janine." We don't see any real evidence of gratitude although there might have been some off camera. Janine just seemed to expect the help.

We see some very unhealthy and blaming types of attitude that are indicative of a possible personality disorder. When she misses her appointment for the first time and acquiesces to a phone conference with Dr. Now, she says words to the effect of, "We'll see if he helps me or if he lets me die." She was the one who missed the appointment, and even though it may have been due to a genuine panic attack, she put everything onto Dr. Now. This and some of the other things she said made me think personality disorder. She had a rocky relationship with her mother, and I'm not so sure she was an accurate historian. Her story just didn't add up for some reason, but clearly she felt as though she had gotten the short end of the stick. It would be interesting to see whether her perceptions lined up with the reality.

Elizzikra · June 28, 2018

Quote

I had the unhappy experience of dealing with addiction treatment facilities' availability Monday night. A close relative who is an alcoholic and who has been going downhill for a long time now, ended up in the suicide watch ward of the local ER (for saying "I wish I was dead"--take heed, folks: Dr. Now warned us about this kind of talk). She finally agreed to be placed in an inpatient rehab facility, and the nurse practitioner trotted off to find her a place. We had a list of several pages of closely-typed addresses of rehab places and assumed there'd be no problem--besides excellent health insurance and Medicare, this person is wealthy and could afford to pay out-of-pocket. There were *no* beds available anywhere within a five-hour drive. We stayed with her until 10 pm; the NP told us she would stay in the hospital until they found her a bed in rehab. Tuesday a.m. her husband called to tell us they had been unable to find her a bed in inpatient rehab and had sent her to an inpatient detox facility for a week.

This woman has everything you mention--insurance, money friends, family support--and she could not get into a rehab facility when she was in crisis. I'm not sure the resources are there, and when you go from drug/alcohol addiction, which most people take more seriously than food addiction, I suspect the resources are even more scarce.

I am so sorry for this and I hope that your relative has found an appropriate place to heal.

I am surprised that, given her resources, there was such difficulty finding a placement for her. Detox might not have been a bad thing as detoxing from alcohol can be life threatening, particularly with suicidal ideation. I'm not sure what part of the country you're in but that could play some role in the availability of rehabs. I live in a major urban area and there are quite a few here. Her options might have been limited because she was suicidal (or saying she was at the time) or other factors.

In any event, best wishes to her. Recovery is hard. And bottom line is - for whatever reason, way too many people who need treatment for all different types of addiction don't get it. That's just not right.

BuyMoreAndSave · June 28, 2018

2 hours ago, CoachWristletJen said:

I'm very sorry to hear about your mother-in-law! It's a blessing that she had you to care for her. And yes, it is scary to think what would have happened if she didn't have a loving family nearby.

It's very true that if Janine were to live in a clinic for an extended period of time, she might feel empowered and decide to stick with it on her own. From what I've observed of the clinics, they are outrageously expensive and may well die a slow death due to the health care crisis in this country. I've seen clinics where they keep super morbidly obese people for months at a time. Since they're usually in bad health at that point, they require round the clock medical supervision. This can cost over $1000 a day. Substance abuse treatment is usually 28 days. If people move on to a halfway house, it's an entirely different situation where they are working and paying a nominal amount of rent. Now, if they offer a 28-day program, then Janine might respond quite well to it and be able to get some help. Even good insurance plans don't usually begin to pay for either type of treatment. It's just too expensive. Even if Janine wanted treatment, I don't know who would pay for such a thing. Dr. Now probably realized that it just wasn't a realistic option for her because she didn't have 30K or more to fork over. Insurance is paying less and less, and people simply don't have the money to pay for it. I don't want to get political but sadly, I don't see the U.S. mitigating the problem any time soon.

As for the move, earlier in the episode, Janine lamented that her family wouldn't be helping her so I don't think the two of them were planning the move together. However, when Janine didn't get on the second plane, she was stuck, basically in a crisis, and it was one she couldn't figure her way out of. So, her sister-in-law took a last minute flight to Texas and arranged transport for Janine. And, when she was there, it became obvious that Janine wasn't going to be able to move in by herself. She didn't seem to have the wherewithal and she certainly didn't have the inclination. Her sister-in-law wound up accompanying her to her appointment, and if you watch her, she is polite, but very tired and frazzled. Two days before she didn't expect to have Janine's move thrust upon her. I'm sure she had her own life to live, but they just couldn't leave her in Dallas to flounder. When Janine starts carrying on about not being able to step on the scale, the poor sister-in-law almost loses it, and she says, exasperated, "Just step up, Janine." We don't see any real evidence of gratitude although there might have been some off camera. Janine just seemed to expect the help.

We see some very unhealthy and blaming types of attitude that are indicative of a possible personality disorder. When she misses her appointment for the first time and acquiesces to a phone conference with Dr. Now, she says words to the effect of, "We'll see if he helps me or if he lets me die." She was the one who missed the appointment, and even though it may have been due to a genuine panic attack, she put everything onto Dr. Now. This and some of the other things she said made me think personality disorder. She had a rocky relationship with her mother, and I'm not so sure she was an accurate historian. Her story just didn't add up for some reason, but clearly she felt as though she had gotten the short end of the stick. It would be interesting to see whether her perceptions lined up with the reality.

Rehab can get pretty expensive too especially when people have to detox from alcohol, benzos, etc. and a lot of rehabs are 60 or 90 days. From https://www.rehabs.com/about/how-much-does-rehab-cost/: "Standard inpatient addiction treatment facilities cost between $14,000 and $27,000 for a 30-day program." And if the patient has to end up being admitted into the hospital multiple times and have the paramedics come multiple times because of the stress of the journey, that costs money too. Janine is far from the only patient who ended up having to go to the hospital as a result of the journey.

I also wonder how much money Dr. Now is making off the show in both direct and indirect revenue, vs. the cost of more comprehensive care.

One issue is that with the obesity epidemic, with close to 70% of the US population overweight and close to 40% obese, we can only expect the number of "super-morbidly obese" patients to keep rising. There isn't even adequate treatment for the ones that exist today, so what is it going to be like in the future? Companies specifically design fast food and processed food to be addictive and openly admit to doing so, which is a component in why so many people end up getting addicted to it. These super-morbidly obese people aren't, for the most part, getting obese off lentils or spinach or boneless skinless chicken breast -- their diet is comprised primarily from fast foods and processed foods, and the same goes for most "regular" obese people. Yet these companies, which have made billions of dollars off of getting people addicted to their products, do not have to put any money into fixing this problem. Tobacco companies legally have to put money into tobacco prevention but as far as I know, companies like Coca-Cola don't have to put money into obesity prevention.

Her SIL was coming out to Houston anyway to help her move in (I watched the episode yesterday so I remember Janine said this), so her SIL just ended up coming to Dallas instead and a day earlier. It was stressful but she was already expecting to spend some time there and I'm sure she was at least half expecting something like that would happen. She was only onscreen for about three minutes and didn't talk much so I don't think that's enough time to determine their relationship or Janine's level of gratitude. But Janine did seem grateful that she was there, at least to me.

Most addicts show "personality disordered" symptoms during active addiction and early recovery. It doesn't necessarily mean that they have a personality disorder although of course they could have one. Like for example on Intervention, there was a woman called Sylvia who showed many personality disordered symptoms and terrible behaviors such as driving drunk and being drunk in front of her children. After she went to rehab she completely turned her life around and now she is actually a counselor for Intervention and you can barely even tell it's the same person. And it doesn't even have to be a personality disorder (which I think is a bit of an armchair diagnosis du jour these days). Honestly just simple depression and anxiety can cause a defeatist attitude, low confidence in one's abilities, and "dysfunctional" behaviors. However contrary to popular belief, some personality disorders such as BPD actually have a high rate of recovery with treatment, so if anything that's even more of a reason why the treatment should have more of an inpatient component and focus more on mental health. Especially if one considers the cost over time to the healthcare system, relatives, etc. of not getting treatment vs. getting treatment.

CoachWristletJen · June 29, 2018

On 6/28/2018 at 12:35 AM, BuyMoreAndSave said:

Rehab can get pretty expensive too especially when people have to detox from alcohol, benzos, etc. and a lot of rehabs are 60 or 90 days. From https://www.rehabs.com/about/how-much-does-rehab-cost/: "Standard inpatient addiction treatment facilities cost between $14,000 and $27,000 for a 30-day program." And if the patient has to end up being admitted into the hospital multiple times and have the paramedics come multiple times because of the stress of the journey, that costs money too. Janine is far from the only patient who ended up having to go to the hospital as a result of the journey.

I also wonder how much money Dr. Now is making off the show in both direct and indirect revenue, vs. the cost of more comprehensive care.

One issue is that with the obesity epidemic, with close to 70% of the US population overweight and close to 40% obese, we can only expect the number of "super-morbidly obese" patients to keep rising. There isn't even adequate treatment for the ones that exist today, so what is it going to be like in the future? Companies specifically design fast food and processed food to be addictive and openly admit to doing so, which is a component in why so many people end up getting addicted to it. These super-morbidly obese people aren't, for the most part, getting obese off lentils or spinach or boneless skinless chicken breast -- their diet is comprised primarily from fast foods and processed foods, and the same goes for most "regular" obese people. Yet these companies, which have made billions of dollars off of getting people addicted to their products, do not have to put any money into fixing this problem. Tobacco companies legally have to put money into tobacco prevention but as far as I know, companies like Coca-Cola don't have to put money into obesity prevention.

Her SIL was coming out to Houston anyway to help her move in (I watched the episode yesterday so I remember Janine said this), so her SIL just ended up coming to Dallas instead and a day earlier. It was stressful but she was already expecting to spend some time there and I'm sure she was at least half expecting something like that would happen. She was only onscreen for about three minutes and didn't talk much so I don't think that's enough time to determine their relationship or Janine's level of gratitude. But Janine did seem grateful that she was there, at least to me.

Most addicts show "personality disordered" symptoms during active addiction and early recovery. It doesn't necessarily mean that they have a personality disorder although of course they could have one. Like for example on Intervention, there was a woman called Sylvia who showed many personality disordered symptoms and terrible behaviors such as driving drunk and being drunk in front of her children. After she went to rehab she completely turned her life around and now she is actually a counselor for Intervention and you can barely even tell it's the same person. And it doesn't even have to be a personality disorder (which I think is a bit of an armchair diagnosis du jour these days). Honestly just simple depression and anxiety can cause a defeatist attitude, low confidence in one's abilities, and "dysfunctional" behaviors. However contrary to popular belief, some personality disorders such as BPD actually have a high rate of recovery with treatment, so if anything that's even more of a reason why the treatment should have more of an inpatient component and focus more on mental health. Especially if one considers the cost over time to the healthcare system, relatives, etc. of not getting treatment vs. getting treatment.

I would like to see our healthcare system take more preventative measures, much in the tradition of eastern medicine. That being said, not everyone will quit smoking, avoid excessive use of alcohol, eat properly to keep their bad cholesterol low, etc. And, the United States is known all over the world for its obese people, and now, for its super morbidly obese people. We might see a future where companies like Coca-Cola have to pay for treatment for the super morbidly obese. It's hard to say. It's also difficult to see insurance companies wanting to invest in a treatment with a 95% failure rate. Insurance companies are run by cold heartless M***F***rs, and it's quite possibly that after they crunch the numbers they will find that it's less expensive to let the super morbidly obese die their early deaths as opposed to investing $60-$90K in three months worth of treatment when they will wind up regaining the weight and needing all of the other procedures anyway.

It's hard to say how insurance companies will handle the continuing obesity epidemic. I know what makes sense in terms of compassion, certainly. I don't know what the future will hold for people in Janine's situation.

BuyMoreAndSave · June 29, 2018

36 minutes ago, CoachWristletJen said:

I would like to see our healthcare system take more preventative measures, much in the tradition of eastern medicine. That being said, not everyone will quit smoking, avoid excessive use of alcohol, eat properly to keep their bad cholesterol low, etc. And, the United States is known all over the world for its obese people, and now, for its super morbidly obese people. We might see a future where companies like Coca-Cola have to pay for treatment for the super morbidly obese. It's hard to say. It's also difficult to see insurance companies wanting to invest in a treatment with a 95% failure rate. Insurance companies are run by cold heartless M***F***rs, and it's quite possibly that after they crunch the numbers they will find that it's less expensive to let the super morbidly obese die their early deaths as opposed to investing $60-$90K in three months worth of treatment when they will wind up regaining the weight and needing all of the other procedures anyway.

It's hard to say how insurance companies will handle the continuing obesity epidemic. I know what makes sense in terms of compassion, certainly. I don't know what the future will hold for people in Janine's situation.

I definitely agree with the need for preventative measures. For example in every episode of My 600-Lb Life that I can remember, the person has been overweight pretty much their entire lives, was around at least 200 lbs by age 12, and 300-400 lbs by age 18. In many cases parents don't care about giving their kids healthy food but then for example in Janine's case, it seemed like her mom did care but just had no idea how to deal with a food addicted child and the doctors at the time (1960s-70s) weren't much better. So there needs to be a better education of parents, especially because now a lot of overweight kids have overweight parents. Parents are definitely a big influence but unfortunately they aren't the only influence, especially when kids get older. When we live in a culture where being overweight is normal and eating a terrible diet is normal, kids are going to have a lot of influences from peers, advertising, and so on.

I'm a bit confused about the 95% failure rate that is cited in the beginning of the episodes though. Is that for Dr. Now's patients, or this type of surgery specifically, or people of this size trying to lose weight by any method, or what? The episodes definitely show a much higher than 5% success rate. But they also show failures so it's not like they are cherry-picking the successes to put on the show.

CoachWristletJen · June 29, 2018

54 minutes ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

I definitely agree with the need for preventative measures. For example in every episode of My 600-Lb Life that I can remember, the person has been overweight pretty much their entire lives, was around at least 200 lbs by age 12, and 300-400 lbs by age 18. In many cases parents don't care about giving their kids healthy food but then for example in Janine's case, it seemed like her mom did care but just had no idea how to deal with a food addicted child and the doctors at the time (1960s-70s) weren't much better. So there needs to be a better education of parents, especially because now a lot of overweight kids have overweight parents. Parents are definitely a big influence but unfortunately they aren't the only influence, especially when kids get older. When we live in a culture where being overweight is normal and eating a terrible diet is normal, kids are going to have a lot of influences from peers, advertising, and so on.

I'm a bit confused about the 95% failure rate that is cited in the beginning of the episodes though. Is that for Dr. Now's patients, or this type of surgery specifically, or people of this size trying to lose weight by any method, or what? The episodes definitely show a much higher than 5% success rate. But they also show failures so it's not like they are cherry-picking the successes to put on the show.

I got the impression that the 95% statistic was for people in the 600 pound range. To me, they are dealing with an entirely different issue than people who typically have the surgery because they are in the 300 pound range. People in the 600-pound range seem to be far less in control of what they are eating. Most of them have never been in the normal weight range. And, most of them have other serious psychological issues and trauma in their background. Janine expressed bitterness towards her mom. In her case, I doubted the accuracy of her story for some reason. Her modeling photos looked more like a couple of Glamour Shots. She may have been on diet pills at age 4, or she may have been exaggerating. She seemed upset that her mom died before she got to vent more. Also, most of them seem less educated and in the lower IQ range although that might have more to do with the type of people who are willing to participate in a reality television show. I'm not saying that to be mean. It's pretty obvious that the majority of people on the show are not very bright. I would be interested in data on the average IQ of people 600 pounds and over. When you think about it, eating ones self up to 600 pounds is not an intelligent decision. It might be that smarter people find different options, such as weight loss surgery, Overeaters Anonymous, exercise, or therapy, before they reach 600 pounds or more. I'm on the fence as to whether or not they have a food addiction. Even Dr. Now has said it's not an addiction, and he's had a closer view of it than almost anyone. However, he's not a psychologist so who knows? I do think that morbid overeating is a very different animal as compared to heroin addiction, however. It might be something that more intelligent people tend to get help for before it's too late. That might be due to the slower progression of the weight gain. It might be that productive people with jobs and lives can't sit around and eat all day. I noticed most of them didn't seem to have any hobbies. When they did, TLC showed them. One woman made costumes for a theater. Even Penny had her jewelry. I never see any books in their homes. When they make their pilgrimages to Texas, I don't see any books or needlework or crossword puzzles by their sides. The one young man with the Munchausen mom who weighed almost 1000 pounds liked to knit and play little computer games, but he was so slow as to be almost borderline mentally retarded, and I'm not saying that to be mean. He may have been the slowest one of the bunch, but he did have his hobbies. I'll give him that. Every person on the show has had a plethora of mental issues, and when Dr. Now suggests therapy, many of them wonder why they should have to go.

People in the 300 pound range are like the average population in terms of their psychological makeup. They come from all walks of life. Most of them do know what a healthy diet consists of, and they are completely capable of making good choices. They just have a weight issue. And, the surgery is a useful tool in helping them control their weight and keep it down. I know several people who have had the surgery and only one person has gained the weight back. (She was 5'0" and close to 400 pounds before the surgery, and she had a lot of psychological issues. She had never been on a real diet. She had multiple problems in the immediate aftermath of the surgery because she couldn't stick with the liquid diet.)

They definitely don't cherry-pick the successes which is good. It's more realistic. I'm sure there are many families out there dealing with morbidly obese people who don't know what to do. I wish they would follow up on the daily lives of some of the failures, like Penny and James. Let's see what their lives are like without Dr. Now. I'm sure it would motivate people who are on the program to stick with it. And maybe, just maybe, it would persuade someone like Penny before it's too late although I doubt it. She was pretty set in her ways.

Edited June 29, 2018 by CoachWristletJen

BuyMoreAndSave · June 29, 2018

1 hour ago, CoachWristletJen said:

I got the impression that the 95% statistic was for people in the 600 pound range. To me, they are dealing with an entirely different issue than people who typically have the surgery because they are in the 300 pound range. People in the 600-pound range seem to be far less in control of what they are eating. Most of them have never been in the normal weight range. And, most of them have other serious psychological issues and trauma in their background. Janine expressed bitterness towards her mom. In her case, I doubted the accuracy of her story for some reason. Her modeling photos looked more like a couple of Glamour Shots. She may have been on diet pills at age 4, or she may have been exaggerating. She seemed upset that her mom died before she got to vent more. Also, most of them seem less educated and in the lower IQ range although that might have more to do with the type of people who are willing to participate in a reality television show. I'm not saying that to be mean. It's pretty obvious that the majority of people on the show are not very bright. I would be interested in data on the average IQ of people 600 pounds and over. When you think about it, eating ones self up to 600 pounds is not an intelligent decision. It might be that smarter people find different options, such as weight loss surgery, Overeaters Anonymous, exercise, or therapy, before they reach 600 pounds or more. I'm on the fence as to whether or not they have a food addiction. Even Dr. Now has said it's not an addiction, and he's had a closer view of it than almost anyone. However, he's not a psychologist so who knows? I do think that morbid overeating is a very different animal as compared to heroin addiction, however. It might be something that more intelligent people tend to get help for before it's too late. That might be due to the slower progression of the weight gain. It might be that productive people with jobs and lives can't sit around and eat all day. I noticed most of them didn't seem to have any hobbies. When they did, TLC showed them. One woman made costumes for a theater. Even Penny had her jewelry. I never see any books in their homes. When they make their pilgrimages to Texas, I don't see any books or needlework or crossword puzzles by their sides. The one young man with the Munchausen mom who weighed almost 1000 pounds liked to knit and play little computer games, but he was so slow as to be almost borderline mentally retarded, and I'm not saying that to be mean. He may have been the slowest one of the bunch, but he did have his hobbies. I'll give him that. Every person on the show has had a plethora of mental issues, and when Dr. Now suggests therapy, many of them wonder why they should have to go.

People in the 300 pound range are like the average population in terms of their psychological makeup. They come from all walks of life. Most of them do know what a healthy diet consists of, and they are completely capable of making good choices. They just have a weight issue. And, the surgery is a useful tool in helping them control their weight and keep it down. I know several people who have had the surgery and only one person has gained the weight back. (She was 5'0" and close to 400 pounds before the surgery, and she had a lot of psychological issues. She had never been on a real diet. She had multiple problems in the immediate aftermath of the surgery because she couldn't stick with the liquid diet.)

They definitely don't cherry-pick the successes which is good. It's more realistic. I'm sure there are many families out there dealing with morbidly obese people who don't know what to do. I wish they would follow up on the daily lives of some of the failures, like Penny and James. Let's see what their lives are like without Dr. Now. I'm sure it would motivate people who are on the program to stick with it. And maybe, just maybe, it would persuade someone like Penny before it's too late although I doubt it. She was pretty set in her ways.

I could believe that a doctor in that time period would put a kid on diet pills. It's possible she could be lying but by that paradigm it's possible any of them could be lying about their traumas. In any case her family didn't give any rebuttal to her accusations so we have no evidence she was lying. Also I'm pretty sure by "modeling" they meant like X-rated stuff, which is not uncommon for people of that size, and that was just the most tame picture they could find. I agree that a lot of them aren't very intelligent but Janine went to college and owned her own business so I assume she has at least an average level of intelligence.

If it isn't an addiction, then what does he think it is? People even commented on Janine's over the top euphoric reaction to eating junk food. Their behavior makes little sense outside the context of an addiction. If you watch shows like Intervention or actually know addicts personally, you see many of the same "personality disordered" behaviors and the same excuse-making, lies, hiding, etc.

I think there's a lot we have yet to learn about addiction. For example the DSM still doesn't recognize internet addiction as an addiction, but I actually have it (and I have not been able to find any specialists in it because it's so under-studied, and in fact I didn't even realize I had an addiction until a few months ago since nobody talks about it) and I can tell you it's real and it derailed my life and career just as much as drug and alcohol abuse derailed my brother's life and career.

I'm also not sure that not getting treatment for a psychological problem means that someone has a low IQ. I have not been able to go to therapy for more than a few weeks because I find it impossible to trust therapists due to experiencing abuse in the psychiatric system (which is extremely common -- look up the article "Trauma within the Psychiatric Setting"), and objectively I don't have a low IQ (I graduated from one of the top 20 colleges in the US). I've also tried so many different strategies to get better on my own and nothing has worked -- basically if I resolve one problem, another one arises. If someone is an adult and has a serious mental health issue chances are they have been through "the system" in the past and it hasn't worked for them. You have to remember that therapy is not effective for a lot of people and there are a lot of bad therapists out there. Also in many cases health services are difficult to access especially if you are poor and have bad or no health insurance, and even more so if you are immobile or barely mobile. The lack of money also could explain the lack of hobbies because all their money goes to food (Kandi and Brandi even said in their episode that they had constant money worries because they spent so much on food, and that it was their primary expense). Also most of them did most of their gaining while working, and only stopped working after their obesity caused an injury or mobility issues or something like that.

I'm not sure that people in the 300 pound range are all that different psychologically, tbh. If you look up things like the fat acceptance movement or "health at every size" or the "fatlogic" group on Reddit, you see many, many examples of people in that weight range being in complete denial about the health and quality of life effects of obesity, and even accusing doctors of discrimination for recommending they lose weight and things like that. Obviously not all people in the "average obese" weight range are like that, but clearly a significant population of them are since it's become a whole movement. My husband is not part of any "activist movement" or anything and yet he was in major denial back when he was obese. He was 5'9" and 212 pounds at his highest and he literally did not even see himself as fat. He would literally accuse me of being controlling for telling him that I wished he would eat healthier and lose weight because I was worried about his health. When I told him that his BMI was in the obese range he said the BMI test was inaccurate and that his BMI was so high because he had muscles (he did have muscles but also a massive stomach). We had many arguments where he said it was fine for him to basically live off fast food and hardly ever eat vegetables because his checkups at the doctor were fine. He definitely doesn't have a low IQ either, quite the opposite actually (he is a senior Android app developer and has a master's degree in electrical engineering). Eventually he "woke up" somehow and lost 50 pounds and he looks back at the old pictures and can't believe how he didn't see his weight problem back then.

CoachWristletJen · July 8, 2018

On 6/29/2018 at 5:07 PM, BuyMoreAndSave said:

I could believe that a doctor in that time period would put a kid on diet pills. It's possible she could be lying but by that paradigm it's possible any of them could be lying about their traumas. In any case her family didn't give any rebuttal to her accusations so we have no evidence she was lying. Also I'm pretty sure by "modeling" they meant like X-rated stuff, which is not uncommon for people of that size, and that was just the most tame picture they could find. I agree that a lot of them aren't very intelligent but Janine went to college and owned her own business so I assume she has at least an average level of intelligence.

If it isn't an addiction, then what does he think it is? People even commented on Janine's over the top euphoric reaction to eating junk food. Their behavior makes little sense outside the context of an addiction. If you watch shows like Intervention or actually know addicts personally, you see many of the same "personality disordered" behaviors and the same excuse-making, lies, hiding, etc.

I think there's a lot we have yet to learn about addiction. For example the DSM still doesn't recognize internet addiction as an addiction, but I actually have it (and I have not been able to find any specialists in it because it's so under-studied, and in fact I didn't even realize I had an addiction until a few months ago since nobody talks about it) and I can tell you it's real and it derailed my life and career just as much as drug and alcohol abuse derailed my brother's life and career.

I'm also not sure that not getting treatment for a psychological problem means that someone has a low IQ. I have not been able to go to therapy for more than a few weeks because I find it impossible to trust therapists due to experiencing abuse in the psychiatric system (which is extremely common -- look up the article "Trauma within the Psychiatric Setting"), and objectively I don't have a low IQ (I graduated from one of the top 20 colleges in the US). I've also tried so many different strategies to get better on my own and nothing has worked -- basically if I resolve one problem, another one arises. If someone is an adult and has a serious mental health issue chances are they have been through "the system" in the past and it hasn't worked for them. You have to remember that therapy is not effective for a lot of people and there are a lot of bad therapists out there. Also in many cases health services are difficult to access especially if you are poor and have bad or no health insurance, and even more so if you are immobile or barely mobile. The lack of money also could explain the lack of hobbies because all their money goes to food (Kandi and Brandi even said in their episode that they had constant money worries because they spent so much on food, and that it was their primary expense). Also most of them did most of their gaining while working, and only stopped working after their obesity caused an injury or mobility issues or something like that.

I'm not sure that people in the 300 pound range are all that different psychologically, tbh. If you look up things like the fat acceptance movement or "health at every size" or the "fatlogic" group on Reddit, you see many, many examples of people in that weight range being in complete denial about the health and quality of life effects of obesity, and even accusing doctors of discrimination for recommending they lose weight and things like that. Obviously not all people in the "average obese" weight range are like that, but clearly a significant population of them are since it's become a whole movement. My husband is not part of any "activist movement" or anything and yet he was in major denial back when he was obese. He was 5'9" and 212 pounds at his highest and he literally did not even see himself as fat. He would literally accuse me of being controlling for telling him that I wished he would eat healthier and lose weight because I was worried about his health. When I told him that his BMI was in the obese range he said the BMI test was inaccurate and that his BMI was so high because he had muscles (he did have muscles but also a massive stomach). We had many arguments where he said it was fine for him to basically live off fast food and hardly ever eat vegetables because his checkups at the doctor were fine. He definitely doesn't have a low IQ either, quite the opposite actually (he is a senior Android app developer and has a master's degree in electrical engineering). Eventually he "woke up" somehow and lost 50 pounds and he looks back at the old pictures and can't believe how he didn't see his weight problem back then.

I certainly don’t think that people who seek treatment for psychological issues have lower IQs nor did I realize I had written anything to suggest that.

i do think that if people on the show are an accurate representation of the 600 pound range and above then yes they are below average range in intelligence. It might well be that those are the ones who agree to go on the show.

Also, I still think their psychological makeup is different. For instance, I doubt most people in the 250-300 range have been sexually abused. For them it is more about biology. However when a person gains to the point where they are defecating on themselves, it suggests more deeply rooted issues to me.

Also food is not a drug. Janine moaned for the camera while eating her goat milk ice cream or whatever, but it’s still not a mood and mind altering drug. Nobody ever drove their car off the road because they had one too many Kripy Kremes. Ice cream doesn’t make you High the way cocaine does. We really need more words for addiction because to call food addiction an addiction and use the same word we use for heroin addiction shows just how little people truly understand about heroin

BuyMoreAndSave · July 9, 2018

9 hours ago, CoachWristletJen said:

I certainly don’t think that people who seek treatment for psychological issues have lower IQs nor did I realize I had written anything to suggest that.

i do think that if people on the show are an accurate representation of the 600 pound range and above then yes they are below average range in intelligence. It might well be that those are the ones who agree to go on the show.

Also, I still think their psychological makeup is different. For instance, I doubt most people in the 250-300 range have been sexually abused. For them it is more about biology. However when a person gains to the point where they are defecating on themselves, it suggests more deeply rooted issues to me.

Also food is not a drug. Janine moaned for the camera while eating her goat milk ice cream or whatever, but it’s still not a mood and mind altering drug. Nobody ever drove their car off the road because they had one too many Kripy Kremes. Ice cream doesn’t make you High the way cocaine does. We really need more words for addiction because to call food addiction an addiction and use the same word we use for heroin addiction shows just how little people truly understand about heroin

I would say it's very likely that people willing to be filmed on national TV naked while cleaning their infected fat folds and screaming "ow my legs!" repeatedly while being transported by a team of firefighters are in the lower IQ range. In fact the evidence suggests that people who willingly appear on reality TV in general are in the lower IQ range.

Also the ice cream she was eating was actually vegan ice cream made from coconut milk, which I found kind of interesting and definitely stood out to me...like did she know it was vegan when she bought it?

As for whether food is addictive, evidence indicates it is (just a couple of examples of research done on this, you can find a lot more online too):

http://healthland.time.com/2012/04/05/yes-food-can-be-addictive-says-the-director-of-the-national-institute-on-drug-abuse/

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/brain-activity-food-addiction-similar-addictions-study/story?id=13291191

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110719114340.htm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/05/is-sugar-worlds-most-popular-drug

Do you also think gambling is not an addiction because it doesn't make you "high"?

Edited July 9, 2018 by BuyMoreAndSave

auntjess · July 9, 2018

On 6/27/2018 at 5:36 PM, Mothra said:

I'm not sure the resources are there, and when you go from drug/alcohol addiction, which most people take more seriously than food addiction, I suspect the resources are even more scarce.

Also, the equipment needed for the obese, is more costly.

Elizzikra · July 9, 2018

Quote

Also the ice cream she was eating was actually vegan ice cream made from coconut milk, which I found kind of interesting and definitely stood out to me...like did she know it was vegan when she bought it?

Vegan doesn't necessarily equate to healthy - a lot of vegan items have just as many calories as their non-vegan counterparts. I hate coconut but if you like it, the coconut milk ice creams are delicious.

aliya · July 10, 2018

12 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Vegan doesn't necessarily equate to healthy - a lot of vegan items have just as many calories as their non-vegan counterparts. I hate coconut but if you like it, the coconut milk ice creams are delicious.

Yup. As I've mentioned, just look at 'What F.A.T. Vegans Eat' on FB. Also, there are a lot of people with allergies, religious issues, or intolerance that eat vegan food. You know there's no pork, no milk, no mixed meat & milk, etc. It's a safe (tho not always healthy) choice for all kinds of people, not just straight up vegans.

CoachWristletJen · July 10, 2018

21 hours ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

I would say it's very likely that people willing to be filmed on national TV naked while cleaning their infected fat folds and screaming "ow my legs!" repeatedly while being transported by a team of firefighters are in the lower IQ range. In fact the evidence suggests that people who willingly appear on reality TV in general are in the lower IQ range.

Also the ice cream she was eating was actually vegan ice cream made from coconut milk, which I found kind of interesting and definitely stood out to me...like did she know it was vegan when she bought it?

As for whether food is addictive, evidence indicates it is (just a couple of examples of research done on this, you can find a lot more online too):

http://healthland.time.com/2012/04/05/yes-food-can-be-addictive-says-the-director-of-the-national-institute-on-drug-abuse/

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/brain-activity-food-addiction-similar-addictions-study/story?id=13291191

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110719114340.htm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/05/is-sugar-worlds-most-popular-drug

Do you also think gambling is not an addiction because it doesn't make you "high"?

Gambling is definitely an addiction. My guess is it is the most likely to occur with antisocial personality disorder. And, there is even a "high" but it isn't the slurry, sloggy kind of high one gets from drugs. Again, it's very different. It's a big mistake to use the word addiction to describe all of these different things, IMHO.

I would definitely go with low IQ people being more likely to agree to go on reality TV shows. Also narcissistic. (Just adding in all the Duggars tips the scales on that one.)

Addictions to things that don't make a person high are just so different... the fact that we are using the same word to describe all of these things is reflective of how very simple and slow psychology is to understand them, let alone truly help with them.

And, a person's individual will or choice to get better and take the help offered does come into play here at some point unless we are all just victims of anatomy and destiny and life is predetermined and someone like Janine is more or less a hapless robot.

I would say that Janine had an IQ of 100 at best although she had a rather pompous demeanor and everything about the way she presented herself suggested that she probably considered herself more intelligent than average.

Edited July 10, 2018 by CoachWristletJen

BuyMoreAndSave · July 10, 2018

11 minutes ago, CoachWristletJen said:

Gambling is definitely an addiction. My guess is it is the most likely to occur with antisocial personality disorder. And, there is even a "high" but it isn't the slurry, sloggy kind of high one gets from drugs. Again, it's very different. It's a big mistake to use the word addiction to describe all of these different things, IMHO.

I would definitely go with low IQ people being more likely to agree to go on reality TV shows. Also narcissistic. (Just adding in all the Duggars tips the scales on that one.)

Addictions to things that don't make a person high are just so different... the fact that we are using the same word to describe all of these things is reflective of how very simple and slow psychology is to understand them, let alone truly help with them.

And, a person's individual will or choice to get better and take the help offered does come into play here at some point unless we are all just victims of anatomy and destiny and life is predetermined and someone like Janine is more or less a hapless robot.

I would say that Janine had an IQ of 100 at best although she had a rather pompous demeanor and everything about the way she presented herself suggested that she probably considered herself more intelligent than average.

Gambling addicts describe being in "the zone" and losing track of time though. And not all drugs cause that kind of high, for example some drugs heighten focus (like Adderall) and some (like nicotine) have only a mild effect on mental state but are still very addictive.

There are different names for different types of addictions..."behavioral addictions" and "substance addictions." There's also "physically addictive" and "psychologically addictive" substance categories.

Many people lack individual will, especially people who come from backgrounds of abuse. That's why treatment is needed to build up will and motivation, and as I said earlier, I think more comprehensive mental health treatment was needed in this case and many other cases.

I agree that Janine probably had an average IQ.

Edited July 10, 2018 by BuyMoreAndSave

BuyMoreAndSave · July 10, 2018

13 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Vegan doesn't necessarily equate to healthy - a lot of vegan items have just as many calories as their non-vegan counterparts. I hate coconut but if you like it, the coconut milk ice creams are delicious.

It doesn't (well not unless it's raw vegan fruit "ice cream", since that actually has some fiber and nutrients). Although of course high calorie does not necessarily equal bad, it's all about portion size and nutritional value, but most ice cream is high in sugar and low in nutrition including the vegan ones.

But my point is that someone with no knowledge of nutrition (ie. a 600-pound person) would probably either think a) it's automatically healthy because it's vegan, or b) it's automatically going to taste terrible because it's vegan. So either way it seems like an unexpected choice for a morbidly obese person who otherwise subsists off whipped cream and McNuggets.

PrincessPurrsALot · July 10, 2018

Pounders,

A friendly reminder: You are in the thread for Janine's episode, so any discussion should be related to that episode. We have two discussions that have gone far afield: Is food addiction addiction? and vegan diets. If you would like to continue these discussions, let's head on over to
Small Talk, the place for non-show-specific chat.

Thanks, and happy posting!

CoachWristletJen · July 11, 2018

On 7/9/2018 at 10:23 PM, BuyMoreAndSave said:

Gambling addicts describe being in "the zone" and losing track of time though. And not all drugs cause that kind of high, for example some drugs heighten focus (like Adderall) and some (like nicotine) have only a mild effect on mental state but are still very addictive.

There are different names for different types of addictions..."behavioral addictions" and "substance addictions." There's also "physically addictive" and "psychologically addictive" substance categories.

Many people lack individual will, especially people who come from backgrounds of abuse. That's why treatment is needed to build up will and motivation, and as I said earlier, I think more comprehensive mental health treatment was needed in this case and many other cases.

I agree that Janine probably had an average IQ.

I do appreciate what you’ve written about psychology’s attempts to tackle addiction with better clarifications of the types although it takes some of the fun out of my sophomoric potshots. Some but not all. ;)

Bringing it back round to Janine and others like her on the show. At some point when a person is behaving like a gigantic asshole (thoroughly self absorbed, blaming everyone else for her problems, difficult to be around, not taking considerable help offered even though not taking it means others may be having to wipe their enormous asses for them very soon), we have to realize that unless Janine is just a robot, at some point her life is the result of Janine. Not her childhood, not her large mom, not any number of things that she would love to blame her sordid existence on. Seems like her mom did everything she could to help her and her siblings turned out okay. I get that we didn’t get all of the data but it seemed to me that Janine regretted losing her mom so young because she still had a serious ax to grind with her, things to work out. Janine isn’t a likable person (the whiny fits alone), and we live in a day and age where we’re not supposed to blame somebody for not being likable. At which point I feel like we all need to stand back and take a deep breath of WTF? You know, really breathe it in. I get that self responsibility isn’t popular these days especially among the crowd featured on this show but perhaps it needs to make a comeback because we devalue people so much more as human beings when we assume they don’t have any, IMHO.

I’d guess her IQ is in the average range, maybe 90-95, on the slightly lower side of average with a nice dose of pomposity thrown in. Again I’d bet she considers herself above average.

Edited July 11, 2018 by CoachWristletJen

BuyMoreAndSave · July 12, 2018

8 hours ago, CoachWristletJen said:

Bringing it back round to Janine and others like her on the show. At some point when a person is behaving like a gigantic asshole (thoroughly self absorbed, blaming everyone else for her problems, difficult to be around, not taking considerable help offered even though not taking it means others may be having to wipe their enormous asses for them very soon), we have to realize that unless Janine is just a robot, at some point her life is the result of Janine. Not her childhood, not her large mom, not any number of things that she would love to blame her sordid existence on. Seems like her mom did everything she could to help her and her siblings turned out okay. I get that we didn’t get all of the data but it seemed to me that Janine regretted losing her mom so young because she still had a serious ax to grind with her, things to work out. Janine isn’t a likable person (the whiny fits alone), and we live in a day and age where we’re not supposed to blame somebody for not being likable. At which point I feel like we all need to stand back and take a deep breath of WTF? You know, really breathe it in. I get that self responsibility isn’t popular these days especially among the crowd featured on this show but perhaps it needs to make a comeback because we devalue people so much more as human beings when we assume they don’t have any, IMHO.

But isn't that the entire reason of what the clinic is supposed to be helping in the first place? To teach the subjects of the show how to be functional and develop responsibility over their diets and lives? Otherwise why even bother to have the clinic at all, and just say, "well, these people are unpleasant to be around, might as well leave them to die." My view is that while the patients have significant challenges, sending a morbidly obese person home with a diet plan and no oversight is pretty much the same as a heroin addict going to get treatment and instead of going to rehab, being given a piece of paper that says "don't do heroin."

Also technically she doesn't HAVE to be likable. She's an actual person, not a character on a fictional TV show. She has no obligation to be seen as "likable" by the general public and neither does anyone else on earth (beyond basic human civility). But, just saying, it is very common for people to see people with anxiety disorders as being "less than," and see their disorders as making them either "unlikable" or "whiny" or worthy of mockery or even subhuman, and for people to assume that the person with anxiety is making a big deal out of nothing and throwing a "fit" on purpose for attention and not because to them it actually IS a big deal. Which actually just makes their problems worse since many people with anxiety withdraw from society for this exact reason, as Janine seems to have done and her social skills probably suffered as a result.

CoachWristletJen · July 13, 2018

22 hours ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

But isn't that the entire reason of what the clinic is supposed to be helping in the first place? To teach the subjects of the show how to be functional and develop responsibility over their diets and lives? Otherwise why even bother to have the clinic at all, and just say, "well, these people are unpleasant to be around, might as well leave them to die." My view is that while the patients have significant challenges, sending a morbidly obese person home with a diet plan and no oversight is pretty much the same as a heroin addict going to get treatment and instead of going to rehab, being given a piece of paper that says "don't do heroin."

Also technically she doesn't HAVE to be likable. She's an actual person, not a character on a fictional TV show. She has no obligation to be seen as "likable" by the general public and neither does anyone else on earth (beyond basic human civility). But, just saying, it is very common for people to see people with anxiety disorders as being "less than," and see their disorders as making them either "unlikable" or "whiny" or worthy of mockery or even subhuman, and for people to assume that the person with anxiety is making a big deal out of nothing and throwing a "fit" on purpose for attention and not because to them it actually IS a big deal. Which actually just makes their problems worse since many people with anxiety withdraw from society for this exact reason, as Janine seems to have done and her social skills probably suffered as a result.

I’ve never said that assholes are under any obligation to be likable. If they were we would have to give them a new name. That being said, I find a lot of people on the show to be quite likable. Most of the people on the show demonstrate those basic human qualities that make them very sympathetic. They are simply in the grip of a really bad disorder that has wreaked havoc on their bodies and on their lives. They are generally grateful for the help that they do get and they take advantage of it.

That’s what makes the show compelling and it is of course more than a show. Most of them are decent human beings. That being said, Janine didn’t seem to be one of them. She didn’t seem to give a thought to anybody other than Janine. There were a few others like Stephen Assanti, the asshat who broke off his wife’s finger and split, and Penny serving her son wontons from her pee pads. Again if the broken flowers in the bunch are total victims of anatomy and circumstance then maybe there is no free will after all. I do believe we are scientient beings with free will and thus a few of these people are just assholes. They’re not really even obligated to be civil as Stephen has repeatedly demonstrated. They don’t owe anyone anything although they shouldn’t expect so much either.

Sending them home with the Diet is brutal. They need to get a support system be it OA or family or church. I’m sure Dr now would like to do more but he can’t be everywhere all the time and he knows if they screw this up the surgery is futile. Hell if they can make it all the way across the country they can find an OA meeting in Houston for support. Or they won’t. And that’s a cold, cruel reality. But again the system is broken and many people can’t even get dental care. Realistically, I don’t know what else we can do. If Janine can bear the social scrutiny of running her scooter through a Micky D’s drive thru, then she can motor on over to an OA meeting where like minded individuals will understand. And if not she’s what us laypeople would call full of crap.

BuyMoreAndSave · July 13, 2018

4 hours ago, CoachWristletJen said:

I’ve never said that assholes are under any obligation to be likable. If they were we would have to give them a new name. That being said, I find a lot of people on the show to be quite likable. Most of the people on the show demonstrate those basic human qualities that make them very sympathetic. They are simply in the grip of a really bad disorder that has wreaked havoc on their bodies and on their lives. They are generally grateful for the help that they do get and they take advantage of it.

That’s what makes the show compelling and it is of course more than a show. Most of them are decent human beings. That being said, Janine didn’t seem to be one of them. She didn’t seem to give a thought to anybody other than Janine. There were a few others like Stephen Assanti, the asshat who broke off his wife’s finger and split, and Penny serving her son wontons from her pee pads. Again if the broken flowers in the bunch are total victims of anatomy and circumstance then maybe there is no free will after all. I do believe we are scientient beings with free will and thus a few of these people are just assholes. They’re not really even obligated to be civil as Stephen has repeatedly demonstrated. They don’t owe anyone anything although they shouldn’t expect so much either.

Sending them home with the Diet is brutal. They need to get a support system be it OA or family or church. I’m sure Dr now would like to do more but he can’t be everywhere all the time and he knows if they screw this up the surgery is futile. Hell if they can make it all the way across the country they can find an OA meeting in Houston for support. Or they won’t. And that’s a cold, cruel reality. But again the system is broken and many people can’t even get dental care. Realistically, I don’t know what else we can do. If Janine can bear the social scrutiny of running her scooter through a Micky D’s drive thru, then she can motor on over to an OA meeting where like minded individuals will understand. And if not she’s what us laypeople would call full of crap.

What did Janine DO that was so terrible though? The other people you mentioned actually did bad things to other people and consistently inconvenienced other people and ruined their lives, and I actually agree that they are probably not good people and never will be. Janine didn't do anything terrible to other people from what I saw. She lived independently without roping an enabler/caregiver or a kid or someone else into her codependency. She tried to undertake the journey independently and tried to find paid help before asking her family. Her SIL came to help her a day early due to the emergency on the plane, but she was planning to come to help her get settled in Houston anyway, and in any case it was a couple of days of her SIL's life, hardly life altering (and certainly much less than the help most people on the show ask of their family members). The firefighters and medical and plane staff helped her but that's what they get paid to do. Unless you're saying the terrible thing she did was to have panic attacks on the plane, in which case you would be calling her a terrible person for having a medical condition.

Sure, she only gave a thought to herself, but she doesn't have anybody else close in her life to think of, and the people in her life didn't give much of a thought to her either. Not having close relationships does not make someone a terrible person.

I hope I don't have to explain the difference in emotional and social stress between going to a fast food restaurant and barely interacting with anyone, and going to group therapy to talk about your worst problems with strangers, and how people who are able to go to the former may not have the emotional fortitude to go to the latter.

Although I actually did check out her Facebook page yesterday out of curiosity and she mentioned going to Meetup groups so maybe she is going to meetings of some sort.

Edited July 13, 2018 by BuyMoreAndSave

CoachWristletJen · July 13, 2018

10 hours ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

What did Janine DO that was so terrible though? The other people you mentioned actually did bad things to other people and consistently inconvenienced other people and ruined their lives, and I actually agree that they are probably not good people and never will be. Janine didn't do anything terrible to other people from what I saw. She lived independently without roping an enabler/caregiver or a kid or someone else into her codependency. She tried to undertake the journey independently and tried to find paid help before asking her family. Her SIL came to help her a day early due to the emergency on the plane, but she was planning to come to help her get settled in Houston anyway, and in any case it was a couple of days of her SIL's life, hardly life altering (and certainly much less than the help most people on the show ask of their family members). The firefighters and medical and plane staff helped her but that's what they get paid to do. Unless you're saying the terrible thing she did was to have panic attacks on the plane, in which case you would be calling her a terrible person for having a medical condition.

Sure, she only gave a thought to herself, but she doesn't have anybody else close in her life to think of, and the people in her life didn't give much of a thought to her either. Not having close relationships does not make someone a terrible person.

I hope I don't have to explain the difference in emotional and social stress between going to a fast food restaurant and barely interacting with anyone, and going to group therapy to talk about your worst problems with strangers, and how people who are able to go to the former may not have the emotional fortitude to go to the latter.

Although I actually did check out her Facebook page yesterday out of curiosity and she mentioned going to Meetup groups so maybe she is going to meetings of some sort.

Well, hopefully she is indeed accepting the help offered to her. She didn’t at first, but it can take these people several tries to get their priorities/resources in order. She probably does have some kind of panic disorder as is evidenced by her response to swallowing the balloon. Also I think it might have a lot to do with her fierce attachment to her scooter.

I hope that she starts to lose weight. What she’s posted looks photoshopped and she is still in her scooter, but who knows? I didn’t find her at all likable but apples and oranges, right?

CrazyInAlabama · September 26, 2018

TLC is rerunning the Janine episode this evening in the usual time slot.

I'm just watching the highlights. The trip through the Mickey D's drive thru on the scooter, the first trip to the plane, and the subsequent meltdown including the EMTs taking her off on a stretcher.

Edited September 27, 2018 by CrazyInAlabama

Cherrio · September 27, 2018

4 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I'm just watching the highlights.

You have to include that 12 serving breakfast and the hot dog on a stick feast. Then the pint of ice cream when her eyes roll back in her head with foodgasmic pleasure.

She is extremely easy to detest, but I realize she stopped maturing at about 4 years old, hence the petulant spoiled brat I am gonna do whatever I want personality.

auntjess · September 27, 2018

20 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

TLC is rerunning the Janine episode this evening in the usual time slot.

I'm just watching the highlights. The trip through the Mickey D's drive thru on the scooter, the first trip to the plane, and the subsequent meltdown including the EMTs taking her off on a stretcher.

Didn't remember which one she was. It's on my DVR, and I'll watch her tonight to keep me off Facebook.

CrazyInAlabama · September 27, 2018

She lived in Seattle, had an apartment that was stuffed full of her junk. She hired some man off of craigslist to help her with the trip to the airport, and errands. After the meltdown, she went home and later talked to Dr. Now online. Then she finally got on the plane, and at the stop in Dallas she had to get off, and then her sister-in-law (I think the SIL was in Denver and came to Houston to help her get set up, the SIL had to go to Dallas to the hospital, then Janine had an ambulance ride from Dallas to Houston, and sobbed because she couldn't get on the scale. She used the one with the big rails, and found her estimate 444 lbs. was 678 lbs (or so). She's also the one that ended up in the hospital from the infection in her leg, lost a lot, and regained 65 lbs at home, she said she did it by having one bad week. I thought Dr. Now was going to fall over with shock at that ridiculous explanation. She's the one that Dr. Now finally said needed the balloon in her stomach for six months (longer than that is dangerous, like Karina's balloon that was in for a year). and had to take her to the hospital to get an x-ray machine that could image all the way through the fat in her chest and abdomen. I think she was going back to Seattle after that, but I'm not sure.

NeitherSparky · September 28, 2018

On 9/26/2018 at 3:45 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

TLC is rerunning the Janine episode this evening in the usual time slot.

I'm just watching the highlights. The trip through the Mickey D's drive thru on the scooter, the first trip to the plane, and the subsequent meltdown including the EMTs taking her off on a stretcher.

Yeah see I tuned in but it was halfway over so I wound up watching something else because I’d already missed all the good parts (don’t forget the tutorial on how to wipe your butt when you’re that big).

CrazyInAlabama · September 28, 2018

The end, with the balloon swallowing was the part to skip if you're squeamish.

Chalby · September 28, 2018

These shows are the saddest ones to watch because the patient is so delusional she hasn't a clue how messed up and selfish she is. Between her stating she's bulimic one month, then pretending to not understand how she gained 64 pounds instead of losing 100 as asked, is emotionally exhausting for me as a viewer. When she whines about the discomfort of the last ditch balloon effort, I feel like screaming, "Fine then! Stop all procedures and let yourself die. But don't keep bitching about having no life." Her poor niece needs to say goodbye to her and and quit putting her life on hold, waiting for this self-absorbed, food diva.

56 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

The end, with the balloon swallowing was the part to skip if you're squeamish.

I felt the gagging was a tad dramatic. She'd have no problem if it were a food balloon. My empathy is officially tapped.

Chalby · September 28, 2018

On 7/12/2018 at 9:18 PM, BuyMoreAndSave said:

What did Janine DO that was so terrible though?

Everything she did was terrible! She was so emotionally unavailable and withholding, she couldn't even fake some tears or compassion for her niece who was begging her to share her knowledge of family who are all dead. She wouldn't even record the family history on tape, using a photo album. She's a nasty bit of work.

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