S06.E10: Divided

[Guest]

Okay so question for discussion...

What if we're supposed to think the newbies are in the right? Is it possible this is another situation where the writers have a complete disconnect from the audience? 

I really want to know because I can't believe the amount of hatred I'm seeing for the newbies is intentional and expected? It feels like they underestimated their importance, which would not surprise me. Personally I don't see any coming back from this situation and even if the newbies beg and admit they were wrong, I'll still hate them. But then there's the dreaded feeling I have that the newbies are supposed to be right and OTA will eventually beg them for help but all that will succeed in doing is making me hate the newbies even more. Haha. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Guest

[Primal Slayer]

6 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Okay so question for discussion...

What if we're supposed to think the newbies are in the right? Is it possible this is another situation where the writers have a complete disconnect from the audience? 

I think we are suppose to be able to see both sides and have sympathy for everyone but this is totally another situation where the writers have a disconnect from the audience. MG will probably end up saying what he usually does if he is ever asked about the storyline. 

[tennisgurl]

48 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

What if we're supposed to think the newbies are in the right? Is it possible this is another situation where the writers have a complete disconnect from the audience? 

 

I agree with @Primal Slayer that I believe we are supposed to think that both sides have legitimate points, and that both sides are right, and both sides are wrong. However, that isn't at all what we are seeing on our screens. Maybe they could have gone in that direction after the original split, if both sides acted like rational adults and they talked it out, but thats not what we got this week. Instead, we got one side being competent and intelligent, and apologizing for their part in the split, and another side acting impulsive, self important, and tossing out any possible olive branch offered by their friends seemingly out of spite. I dont think they meant for this to be so heavily one sided, but...it totally is. One side is so obviously more in the wrong from the get go, and one side is clearly more sympathetic, and that kills the whole "both sides have a point" story I think they're trying to tell. 

Its not like in something like Civil War where we already knew and cared the characters, and knew their personalities and backstories enough that we could understand why they were doing what they were doing, even when we disagreed with it. That was a story when you really could look at the fight and see how both sides could be right, and both sides could be wrong. We dont know (or care) about the newbies to understand why they're so upset about this, and they're coming off as so petty, while OTA is acting so rationally, its impossible to see them as equally at fault.

[KirkB]

I miss Rory (the guy with the rags, not the one from LoT). I just wanted to put that out there.

I honestly don't know if we're supposed to feel sorry for the Dinah, Rene and Curtis, or be angry at them. It should be obvious by this point in the season but the writing has failed on multiple levels. Curtis got divorced, which should be sad, but he brought in himself by lying to his husband and choosing being Mr. Terrific over his marriage.  Rene tried very hard, initially, to abandon his daughter again for her own good. And Dinah...hi Vince. They're being exceptionally hypocritical, calling Oliver, Felicity and Diggle out on keeping secrets when Dinah, for example, put them at all risk for hiding important information about Vigilante. Not that Oliver, Felicity and Diggle haven't been hypocritical themselves in the past but I don't think the newbies have a leg to stand on considering it's hard to go on about loyalty, Rene, when the first chance you get the betray the team and help the DA go after Oliver. 

I don't want any of the newbies to get killed enough. I don't care enough about any of them for that. Just let them go away, and take the show back to Oliver, Felicity, Diggle, Quentin and Thea. You don't need half a dozen masks running around all the time, two (or three, if Speedy comes back) will do. Plus, less characters means more time for plots and stories with the ones I actually want to see.

[statsgirl]

Remember how we were supposed to think that Susan is a good character?  Side with her against Thea and Felicity because they lost her her job?  Think that Oliver was right to make Felicity work to reinstate her?

Remember how were were supposed to really like Wild Dog because he was a tough guy who wouldn't take any bull (or any orders for that matter)?  That the writers couldn't understand why he was at the bottom of the "Rate the new team members" polls and Rory was at the top?   Matt Mittovich even showed the TVLine poll to WM and she said she couldn't believe it.

Getting mad because OTA waited a day to confirm about the camera in the lair seems like trying to find a reason to stay mad to me rather than something they should be genuinely angry about.

Edited January 20, 2018 by statsgirl

[DeadZeus]

I wish Oliver didn't fail this episode... They planned everything but Oliver lost the fight. Then Felicity says "you coulnd't have known Bertininelli was gonna betray you".

When did this happen? Bertinelli lost... Oliver promised him they would win but they didn't. Bertinelli had no choice, his men were gone. He didn't betray Oliver at all.

Cool action scene, just sux that it amounted to Oliver losing and gaining nothing from it. And that Shaky cam.. So annoying. While the scene is cool it's still a far cry for the famous Undertaking hallway scene and Oliver "saving" Thea from Slade in S2. I don't understand why they can't reach that lvl anymore. But the shaky cam surely doesn't help.

I knew they were gonna make it so Oliver says "We can handle it" but then it appears they can't... If they wanna do something special that has never been done before.. How about letting Oliver be right for once? That would be a first!

Hope the newbs get knocked down HARD, they shouldn't even be able to do 1% that Oliver can do. And i want Oliver to fight them and destroy them to show his superiority. Like srsly, they all act like they are some big shots. This is what happens when they put too many masks, it makes it seem like it's not so special and anyone can do it. Oliver should be leagues above them.

Edited January 20, 2018 by DeadZeus

[kes0704]

2 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Okay so question for discussion...

What if we're supposed to think the newbies are in the right? Is it possible this is another situation where the writers have a complete disconnect from the audience? 

I really want to know because I can't believe the amount of hatred I'm seeing for the newbies is intentional and expected? It feels like they underestimated their importance, which would not surprise me. Personally I don't see any coming back from this situation and even if the newbies beg and admit they were wrong, I'll still hate them. But then there's the dreaded feeling I have that the newbies are supposed to be right and OTA will eventually beg them for help but all that will succeed in doing is making me hate the newbies even more. Haha. 

It’s hard to believe that they would deliberately write the newbies to a place where the audience actively hates them and wants them to leave, because how would they hope to ever come back from that?

I’m assuming that we were supposed to feel some empathy for Rene in having to choose to turn Oliver in for the sake of his daughter, but it doesn’t work because in order to save his daughter he sacrifices Oliver’s son. If they hadn’t found out about the betrayal,  it seems like Rene would have happily continued to work in the team right up until Oliver’s trial, when he testified against him.

I think they’ve overestimated how attached the audience are to the newbies and how shaky their grievances are in the greater scheme of things. 

[tangerine95]

Yeah I don't think they intend to make the newbies hated,just like they didn't intend that when they introduced them in season 5 where they were also unpopular.But they're just really bad judges of audience reaction,it's kinda ridiculous how bad.I think it was a dumb idea to do this whole team split thing because even if the newbies had a point that's still putting them against characters we've watched for 5 and a half seasons opposed to characters who have been there a year.It's more likely the audience will side with characters that have been there from the start let alone when it's the lead plus the most popular characters.When we first heard about a team split and civil war storyline,I thought it'd be like Oliver and Felicity vs Digg and then some newbies take Oliver's side,some Digg's.I wouldn't have liked that tbh because I hate to see OTA fighting but at least that way you have some investment because they're so close and been through so much so working it out is worth it plus they have earned a equal say in how the team should run.I don't see how working it out with the newbies is supposed to be worth it when OTA barely has relationships with them that are stronger than co workers at best since most of them tend to talk to one OTA member and ignore others.

[LeighAn]

I think they are trying to have a purposeful divide and that they want people to pick sides to get attached to the story while also trying to give both good and bad motivations and reasons for both sides; but the problem is that they've stacked the deck in favour of Oliver and OTA that any merits or motivations NTA may have is weak sauce in comparison. They come off as pissy petty and immauture because what they are angry about is so small and inconsequential while OTA greviances are larger and more impactful on their lives and yet they have had the more mature response. 

 

If I was a fan of the NTA characters I'd be pretty pissed about the writing but since I'm not a fan of the characters and indifferent to the actors who portray them I don't care if the audience turns on them. 

[Primal Slayer]

In 6x09 I didn't have a problem seeing more NTA's side of things and siding with them to a degree but even this episode made it really hard to do so after they had those two meetings. It was just really bad writing. Also didn't help that they made it seem like NTA sat out this week on the vigilante side instead of continuing to pursue criminals.

[statsgirl]

Thank you to everyone reminding me that I much prefer OTA vs NTA than a split within OTA itself.

16 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

In 6x09 I didn't have a problem seeing more NTA's side of things and siding with them to a degree but even this episode made it really hard to do so after they had those two meetings. It was just really bad writing. Also didn't help that they made it seem like NTA sat out this week on the vigilante side instead of continuing to pursue criminals.

They should have had the split over philosophical differences, something we could side with them on, rather than surveillance after Curtis put tracking nanites in an unknowing Felicity's breakfast, secret keeping when Dinah is keeping secrets about Vigilante, and Rene's ki dafter Oliver and Quentin pushed him to get her back after he had given up and gave him the job he could do it from.

[insomniadreams88]

47 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Also didn't help that they made it seem like NTA sat out this week on the vigilante side instead of continuing to pursue criminals.

After sitting out for five weeks too. What were they doing all that time? We know Felicity was pulling all-nighters looking for Cayden and Oliver was going out as GA. But the most anyone from NTA seems to have done in that time is Dinah doing her job/the paperwork for the bad guys Vince dropped off at SCPD? Dinah said she hadn’t been BC in 5 weeks - did Rene or Curtis mention anything about being WD or Terrific in that time? No, right? Rene hasn’t even found a day job. 

And then after finding out about the team of villains, NTA basically whined. 

[BkWurm1]

It occurs to me that if they'd played out Rene's dilemma of being hounded by the FBI lady to turn on Oliver or lose his daughter over time, showing him struggling with it and trying to find a way out while just getting in deeper, they might have accomplished convincing me that he had no choice or at least made me sympathetic.  Many still were sympathetic just from hearing him say he had no choice (I was never in that headspace.  He always came off like a coward to me) so I have to imagine if they'd devoted a few weeks to showing it play out, with the audience knowing what he was going through and the team ignorant, that he and perhaps the rest of the NTA might come off more sympathetic but instead of playing out that storyline, they sacrificed it for a gotcha moment, a big reveal.  

Quote

I wish Oliver didn't fail this episode... They planned everything but Oliver lost the fight. Then Felicity says "you coulnd't have known Bertininelli was gonna betray you".

When did this happen? Bertinelli lost... Oliver promised him they would win but they didn't. Bertinelli had no choice, his men were gone. He didn't betray Oliver at all

I remain confused about this as well.  If Felicity said he betrayed them, I have to assume he did and Bertinelli did seem to go back and forth in Cayden's favor.  Like he'd both betrayed him but also redeemed himself enough to keep his daughter safe.  So I feel like I"m missing something or some scene got cut. Maybe it was as simple as Bertinelli was supposed to help Oliver but instead sided with the villains?  Did someone figure this out?

[statsgirl]

9 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

He always came off like a coward to me) so I have to imagine if they'd devoted a few weeks to showing it play out, with the audience knowing what he was going through and the team ignorant, that he and perhaps the rest of the NTA might come off more sympathetic but instead of playing out that storyline, they sacrificed it for a gotcha moment, a big reveal.  

It makes me wonder if going for the gotcha rather than audience sympathy for Rene means that he's going to be leaving the team at the end of the season so they decided the gotcha was more important.  Or maybe they really are that unaware of how the audience feels about the n00bs. 

[kes0704]

3 hours ago, statsgirl said:

They should have had the split over philosophical differences, something we could side with them on, rather than surveillance after Curtis put tracking nanites in an unknowing Felicity's breakfast.

Do you think the writers / Echo have actually forgotten that Curtis did this in S5? I think Curtis putting tracking nanites in Felicity’s food is more invasive and a much greater breach of privacy than what Felicity did in tracking him via GPS and satellite, but she didn’t make a big deal out of it. 

Their story continuity isn’t always the best but you’d think they would remember something that was an actual plot point. They were also referenced in 520 when they were going to use them to trace Felicity but couldn’t because they’d been destroyed by the EMP burst. 

Edited January 21, 2018 by kes0704
Spelling

[Laina]

All this fighting between NTA and OTA is just useless drama to get through the back half of the season. Apparently the writer's are lost for ideas, so they figure that the best thing to do would be to divide the team and then slap them back together at the end of the season, all smiling and forgetting the crap that happened during the season. I for one, think Oliver should have kicked Rene's ass for giving up his identity. Yes, it was for Rene's daughter, but I don't feel any sympathy for him. He's been acting like a spoiled little s--- head since he joined the team.

I wanted to like Dinah, because she replaced Laurel, who I can't stand. But then she got hypocritical with Oliver, about lying and hiding things, when she's been lying and hiding things, and putting the team in danger with her association with Vince/Vigilante.

Curtis, I don't know. I can get him being pissed at being spied on, but he shouldn't have been that pissed about it. He knows that OTA takes security seriously, so I don't see him having a leg to stand on with his anger. I just want him and OTA to start getting along again.

I won't miss Rene or Dinah if they're dropped. Curtis is the only 'newbie' that I want to stay. The others bored me, and just didn't entertain me or make me feel invested in them.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Laina

[insomniadreams88]

8 minutes ago, kes0704 said:

Do you think the writers / Echo have actually forgotten that Curtis did this in S5? I think Curtis putting tracking nanites in Felicity’s food is more invasive and a much great breach of privacy than what Felicity did in tracking him via GPS and satellite, but she didn’t make a big deal out of it. 

If they haven’t forgotten, they want us to forget. The nanites are much worse. 

[Ashand11]

Jesus Christ those 3 need to stop acting like such babies.  Renee betrayed Oliver so its not like he deserved the trust.

[tv echo]

IIRC, the sequence of events was as follows:

1. OTA finds out the Arrow Bunker was bugged.
2. Jerry Bertinelli proposes an alliance with GA and gives him surveillance footage of his meet with Cayden.
3. Felicity uses that surveillance footage to track Cayden's car (through his license plate) to a warehouse.
4. Oliver goes solo to the warehouse, prepared to confront Cayden and BS (using his collar arrows), but is surprised by the appearance of the rest of the villains (Anatoly, Diaz, Vigilante) and has to escape.
5. Diggle and Felicity share intel about this new cabal of villains, including Vigilante, with the newbies.
6. Dinah storms out and confronts Vince/Vigilante about his helping Cayden, and he knocks her out and flees.
7. OTA plants charges in Bertinelli's warehouse and have a pretend conversation in the bugged Arrow Bunker about Bertinelli hiring the Red Lions, in order to lure the cabal of villains to the rigged warehouse.
8. Diaz & minions show up at the warehouse and fight Bertinelli's men, and then Oliver jumps into the fight (maybe thinking he could at least take out Diaz).
9. But then Cayden, Vigilante, Anatoly and BS all appear, and Oliver is outnumbered and eventually pinned by Vigilante.
10. Bertinelli is told either to shoot GA or lose his daughter, but when he decides to shoot GA, Oliver sets off the explosives and escapes.
11. OTA has their "clean slate" meeting with the newbies where Oliver apologizes and asks them to return, but the newbies petulantly refuse and leave in a self-righteous huff.

Regarding Bertinelli's betrayal, I'm not sure what Felicity was referring to. I can only speculate that she meant Bertinelli's decision to shoot GA rather than help him. Or else, I have to speculate that the warehouse trap was set up with the knowledge and consent of Bertinelli, but he warned Cayden ahead of time. Hence, the cabal villains didn't arrive together. but tricked Oliver into thinking only Diaz was going to show up. I don't know. Maybe there's a deleted scene somewhere or something got lost in the writing or editing process.

Another thing, I've read complaints about how the Vigilante was able to overpower Oliver all by himself, despite Oliver's more extensive and ruthless training. However, what if Oliver let him overpower him in order to get all the villains together and in place before he set off the explosives?  Maybe he was just biding his time. If he had defeated Vigilante right away, he would've had to escape immediately because he was so outnumbered. Again, I don't know.  It does seem strange that Oliver could be defeated by Vince, who is just a former police detective with meta healing powers.

Edited January 21, 2018 by tv echo

[Hiveminder]

31 minutes ago, tv echo said:

 

Another thing, I've read complaints about how the Vigilante was able to overpower Oliver all by himself, despite Oliver's more extensive and ruthless training. However, what if Oliver let him overpower him in order to get all the villains together and in place before he set off the explosives?  Maybe he was just biding his time. If he had defeated Vigilante right away, he would've had to escape immediately because he was so outnumbered. Again, I don't know.  It does seem strange that Oliver could be defeated by Vince, who is just a former police detective with meta healing powers.

Everyone dust off your fanwanking skills. Again. 

....

Fanwanking sounds like such a dirty word. 

[Primal Slayer]

We dont know anything about Vinces martial arts background and who knows what he did after being hit by the wave.

[EmilyBettFan]

Well Oliver was sonic cried into a wall wasn't he? So it wasn't really fair to begin with. Plus he did do a lot of fighting before Vince appeared.

[DeadZeus]

He was still able to do flips, i don't think fatigue or disorientation from the cry was a factor. He lost due to plot convenience which is Always the case for him.

I personally don't get the outnumbered part..; Besides BS and Vigilante all of them are literally street gangs... Oliver has dealt with way worse before. Anataloy and Diaz shouldn't even be an issue.

It just pains me that Oliver doesn't grow as a fighter. I mean, he spent 5 years in hell which molded him in to this warrior, but after 6 years of being GA he doesn't seem any stronger. 6 years if life/death situations but he seems at the same skill lvl as his first year.

I did like that Oliver planned ahead with the explosives for an escape plan. But ofc it's easy to say what he could have done different.. Like instead of fighting those guys hand to hand he could have just shot an explosive Arrow lol.

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by DeadZeus

[Quark]

I liked the fight scenes at the port, but generally this episode, like most of the season, is just meh.

Thea and Quentin bonding were the definite highlights of the episode.

[Laina]

2 hours ago, Quark said:

Thea and Quentin bonding were the definite highlights of the episode.

+1 I love Thea and Quentin scenes. I've always enjoyed them and how no matter what they're each going through or how angry they get at each other or other people, they're still there for each other. They treat each other like family and I love that.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Laina

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, tv echo said:

However, what if Oliver let him overpower him in order to get all the villains together and in place before he set off the explosives?  Maybe he was just biding his time. If he had defeated Vigilante right away, he would've had to escape immediately because he was so outnumbered. Again, I don't know.  It does seem strange that Oliver could be defeated by Vince, who is just a former police detective with meta healing powers.

During the scene, that's pretty much what I was thinking, that he was getting them all in so he could set off the explosives but then the explosives only seemed to take out half of the building and I was confused.  Maybe he had more to his plan but because Bertinelli tired to shoot him, he couldn't go through with it? 

Cayden seemed to think Bertinelli had betrayed him and then redeemed himself.  Felicity basically said they lost the game because Bertinelli changed the environment.  I'd missed or forgotten that Bertinelli was forced to shot Oliver or risk his daughter so I'm guessing you are right and that is what everyone is referring to but I still don't see how if he hadn't agreed to try to shoot Oliver how that would have turned the tide in Oliver's favor. 

Yeah, something must have gotten cut.  It does make me feel better that I'm supposed to believe that Oliver WOULD have won without the newbs had the mobster just stuck to the plan.  (Or stayed on Oliver's side)

I guess maybe the moral of that story was that Oliver found the former team more trustworthy now than a mobster.  (Or that if he was willing to trust a mobster, he should give the newbs another chance)

Edited January 21, 2018 by BkWurm1

[BunsenBurner]

When Dinah and Vince were talking and walking on their date it was the most natural I’ve seen both of them act. It looked real. 

[Primal Slayer]

Shame it will be for nothing and for anyone to get invested in.

I'm disappointed that the villain round table got cut. Lord knows these villains motivations need to be fleshed out. 

[kes0704]

8 hours ago, DeadZeus said:

It just pains me that Oliver doesn't grow as a fighter. I mean, he spent 5 years in hell which molded him in to this warrior, but after 6 years of being GA he doesn't seem any stronger. 6 years if life/death situations but he seems at the same skill lvl as his first year.

I think his fighting skills have stayed at a standstill or, in some cases, been made a little bit weaker over 6 years to accommodate team members who had lesser skill sets but still needed to appear equally competent by comparison.  

[LeighAn]

4 minutes ago, kes0704 said:

I think his fighting skills have stayed at a standstill or, in some cases, been made a little bit weaker over 6 years to accommodate team members who had lesser skill sets but still needed to appear equally competent by comparison.  

That and also a stunt director who's gotten tired, repetitive and is so busy being thrown other titles that he's stopped coming up with new freash ideas. 

[Primal Slayer]

They can't have Oliver as this greatest figher of all time while bringing in villains that are beneath him. There would be no fight. Plus the 5 years of flashbacks did a horrible job of showing us an Oliver that became as badass in fighting as he is suppose to be. 

[EmilyBettFan]

At least he had a backstory of fighting/surviving. What did most of other masks get that have come and gone? Except for Diggle.

It's no secret they have/had to dumb down Oliver's abilities and go as far as "kill" him to make room for others. I'm just glad that's over with.

All this storyline is showing me is that the bad guys team always have to be together because they know they will get beat if it's just one and one against Oliver.

Edited January 22, 2018 by EmilyBettFan

[UNOSEZ]

I did love Laurel finally just saying.. Why aren't we just killing him... 

[Laina]

Well, maybe we'll get lucky and Black Siren will go after Oliver and she'll get killed, too. One can only hope.

[Featherhat]

Thing is, there was no attempt to be reasonable by Team Toddlers. Every time OTA tried to reach out they threw their toys out of the pram in the snotiest way no looking to put their ideas across or  ( but then they'd have to have any apart from thinking Helix was a super awesome base, which it is not). 

And DD was an *undercover* cop she should know organisations sometimes have to do surveillance on their own employees or team members when they know there are internal security breeches. And people who walk out of bunkers in a snit aren't going to find out a different breach has happened 2 minutes after its discovered. Because they weren't there and the ones that were rightly don't trust them before they've checked it out. Meanwhile at least two of them kept dangerous secrets for months and haven't really bothered to try and explain.

I'd think the writers wanted us to hate them, but since this is Arrow we'll probably have Symapthy 101 for them ASAP as they process the reviews from last week. Susan actually got more support initially because she was "one of them" to a lot of entertainment "reporters" who still covered Arrow. 

Edited January 22, 2018 by Featherhat
Random capitalisation from my phone.

[benteen]

It's pretty bad when Dinah makes you long for the days when Laurel was the BC...

[KirkB]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

It's pretty bad when Dinah makes you long for the days when Laurel was the BC...

Personally I wouldn't go that far. Say what you will about the newbies, and I can say plenty (I don't particularly like Rene, I've lost interest in Curtis, and I've never understood why Dinah/BC was even necessary in the first place) I would still take any one of them over Laurel. IMO Cassidy sucked much of the energy and joy out of nearly any scene she was in with just about anyone whose last name was not Blackthorne. And for the most part none of the trio have not dominated as much screen time as Laurel. I would be fine if all them went away, but if I absolutely had to pick one to keep so they got rid of the other two it would probably be Curtis. He can stop being Mr. Terrific and focus on the new company he and Felicity are supposed to be doing, so he's not hanging around the lair all the time. I would prefer if they trimmed the cast back to Oliver, Diggle, Felicity, Quentin and Thea.

[tarotx]

No matter how much they want us to see the Newbies in the same light as OTA, I can't. Even if I could I don't like any of them. Separately or together. I thought I liked Dinah last season but now rewatching some of last season, nope. The way she is this season affects my over all pov about her character. 

I did enjoy Oliver in the field alone and the OTA dynamics. 

Also this Black Siren may have some of Laurel in her storyline? After the crossover and the way BS loves killing is the audience suppose to support this notion?

[Chaser]

I don't want Laurel back. I want them all gone. Dinah, Curtis, Rene, BS. 

[Morrigan2575]

3 hours ago, benteen said:

It's pretty bad when Dinah makes you long for the days when Laurel was the BC...

Fuck no. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, benteen said:

It's pretty bad when Dinah makes you long for the days when Laurel was the BC...

I can actually see what you mean though I'm not sure it's exactly a positive thing? With Laurel as BC I could very easily ignore her because she was just there. Dinah, on the other hand, is so in your face and I personally feel like she's everywhere. She's Police so she's all over that part of the show, she's BC so she's always getting plenty of stunts and that awful canary cry, and she's currently sucking up screentime with this whole Vigilante plotline. I feel like there's no escape from her stompy, glare-y attitude. 

So, it's not as if I want Laurel as BC back but I definitely long for the days when I could just ignore BC completely tbh. Welp. ?

[SmallScreenDiva]

5 hours ago, benteen said:

It's pretty bad when Dinah makes you long for the days when Laurel was the BC...

LOLOL! No ... they're both horrible characters, played by bad actresses. I don't want either of them on the show.

Edited January 22, 2018 by SmallScreenDiva

[tangerine95]

I feel like the newbies are basically LL,it's the same pissed off attitude,same whining,same hypocrisy etc.They all have some horrible aspect of her.Rene blames everyone else for everything and it's never his fault,Dinah is here prolonging the boring BC crap and is constantly angry as well as a huge hypocrite,Curtis literally seems like he's a vigilante for attention and glory even tho he sucks at it and has no real reason to do it just like Laurel.So honestly it's like she barely left since they showed up.Still wouldn't want LL back over them tho.When she was having her annual focus episodes there was nothing worse.I mean 2.14,the BC arc in season 3, the resurrecting Sara in season 4.It was worse than Not Team Arrow imo as horrible as they are as well.Plus her every scene with SA was painful,the anti chemistry coupled with KC trying to make LI Laurel still a thing was so bad,wouldn't have that back for anything lol

Edited January 22, 2018 by tangerine95

[Hiveminder]

My deal with Laurel vs Dinah is that at least Laurel’s bad attitude was somewhat earned. As much as I disliked her and laughed at her single white femaling tendencies, she had a lot of shitty things happen to her. Most of them initiated or driven mainly by other people’s actions.

Everything with Dinah this season would have been way more effective with Laurel. Her being mad enough at Oliver for not trusting her to leave the team would have made sense with their history. Her being Quentin’s confidante and encouraging him to keep a secret would have made sense. He was her dad. She wasn’t some woman Oliver recruited in a parking garage because she can screech really loudly less than a year ago who just happened to be the only other person in the room when he thought he killed BS. Even Dig trusting only her with the secret about his arm would have made more sense. Her addiction history could even have informed her response to learning he was using back alley drugs to treat it. (Not that the writers would have handled it well.)

It just supports the idea that Dinah Drake is just the show’s attempt to redo Laurel. 

[TwistedandBored]

I think I was actually mad at Oliver for even apologizing to the 3 idiots. I understood why he did it. He was being the bigger person and thinking of the city and the people of the city but I still hated it. Honestly, I can't wait until those three disappear from the show. Like I hated them more than I hated the bad guys. 

[Hiveminder]

I was so proud of Oliver for that, even though I hated that he had to do it. I was even prouder of how him after they refused to come back. He managed to make it sound like he was saying, “You complete morons are going to get killed because you’re idiots.” without actually saying the words. I love it when Oliver gets sassy. 

[TwistedandBored]

Oh, I was proud of Oliver for apologizing but I still hated it. Like these idiots did not deserve that apology at all. 

[catrox14]

9 hours ago, benteen said:

It's pretty bad when Dinah makes you long for the days when Laurel was the BC...

Hell, no. Juliana Harkavy has at least more than one expression. 

[kes0704]

It was much easier to fast forward through Laurel because she was kind of inconsequential. Dinah, as has been pointed out, is everywhere which makes it much harder (but not impossible!) to fast forward and still make sense of the story.

My preference would be no canaries, but I know we’re going to end up having to keep one of them. ?

[KenyaJ]

2 hours ago, Hiveminder said:

I was so proud of Oliver for that, even though I hated that he had to do it. I was even prouder of how him after they refused to come back. He managed to make it sound like he was saying, “You complete morons are going to get killed because you’re idiots.” without actually saying the words. I love it when Oliver gets sassy.