Season 7 Discussion

[BitterApple]

3 hours ago, floridamom said:

Yes, that is Lauren Swanson Duggar. How is it that she looks exactly the same 5 years ago as she does now? What was she, 13 then? I don't get it.

Zach & Whit should be living on a deputy's salary and something from UP. This network can't pay them that much per year, IMO. How is it that these two live a much more affluent life than other young couples with 2 children? It also appeared that Zach didn't have much personal money before marrying. Where does this all come from...vow renewals, trips to NYC, etc?

It's all paid for by UP and a lot of stuff was probably comped or discounted in exchange for promoting the businesses on the show and social media. There's no way in hell they would've even done a vow renewal if they had to foot the bill themselves. 

I thought the same about Lauren! I think she's one of those girls who hit puberty early, had a small growth spurt and was done by 13 or 14. Her face and figure look exactly the same at Zach's wedding as they do now. 

Regarding Tori, it was nice to see her excited. The new apartment was much nicer than the other place they were living. She seems okay with the move to Nashville and it looks like they have a lot of support from their church group. I think they'll do well out there. Bobby has the perfect personality for a youth minister.

[JessDVD]

That's like my least favorite thing about what reality TV has become (other than its life-ruining capacity), when someone does a vow renewal or whatever, paid for by the show, comped by the advertisers, and probably an idea from the show producers anyway. I liked reality TV better when it was literally just following a family around doing the things they were already doing, not completely designed, fabricated, and written by the network/producers. I know, 2005 called and laughed at me.

[BitterApple]

I like Zach and Whit, but please don't sit there with a straight face and tell me you came up with this idea on your own. Vow renewals are the most overused reality tv trope in existence. Whenever producers are running low on material, this is the rabbit they pull out of their hats. 

I don't blame them for taking advantage of it, but it's just a reminder that even the shined-up Christian families are playing the game. 

Similar to the product placement. We could've made a drinking game based on how many times they said "AARP."

[debbie311]

A vow renewal after five years?  That seems a little much.  And those were full-on wedding gowns she was trying on.  Even if UP is paying for the dress, or if Miss Renee is giving the dress in exchange for the free tv advertising, it just seems silly to me.  Maybe I am just too practical, but I would not spend thousands of dollars on a dress for a five year "renewal" even if someone else was paying for it.  A fantastic vacation, "second honeymoon?" YES.  But maybe they will be getting that also.

Zach's jeans looked so weird.  They were so tight, and not in a good way.  When he dropped the cookie on the floor and tried to clean it up, he looked goofy.  I was actually embarrassed for him, the way he looked in those jeans.

[riverblue22]

Whitney probably hated the dress she wore for the first wedding which was probably selected to satisfy Kelly and Gil, and was happy to have a second chance.  With a good deal from Miss Renee and support from the network who gets a story line out of it, maybe they didn't have to spend much.  Maybe the dress was a sample and had already been picked out before filming.

[SongbirdHollow]

I do like Whitney. I thought the dress was perfect for her. But I think all vow renewals are ridiculous, unless someone had amnesia or something. The original vow is meant to be permanent and by definition doesn't need renewal. And wearing a wedding dress again is tacky. Anniversary celebrations I'm all for. Every goddamn year if they want. Don't these families get sick of all these weddings? It's not like they don't have a million kids they need to marry off for the first time.

[Kiss my mutt]

Whit looks like she dropped a lot of weight since she was first introduced on the show.  It also looks like she had her teeth “prettied up”. 

[cereality]

It was nice to see Tori happy, but honestly I was a bit sad that a 2 bedroom apartment makes her and Kelly SOOOOO happy.  Tori went on at the gorgeous cabinets and counters. Kelly going on about how the complex was soooo fancy and with such lush lawns.  Uh – sorry but that’s pretty much what suburban apartment complexes built in the last 10 yrs look like.  Since they went on about how Hendersonville is soooo expensive (no doubt to provide the opening for the AARP payout), I poked around and it seems like complexes in Hendersonville that look similar to theirs are renting 2 bed, 2 BA apartments for around $1100.  That really isn’t sooo expensive once you’re out of the rural backwoods.  Tori will be shocked to learn that lots of people living there are probably not like her who needed to get so her man could give her a “fancy” home, but lots of young college grads living and often in those complexes, lots of college/grad students.

I’m glad she’s happy but it’s sad that these fundies take the approach of – as many kids as possible, dad MUST quit his job bc God doesn’t want you rubbing elbows with non fundies, and if that means your kids just make do – oh well, Lord’s will.  I mean I know the Bates home got a makeover by TLC and got a lot better but reality is it was still a life with 19 kids in a few bedrooms, competing for anything “special” like leftovers mom and dad brought home from a restaurant etc.

Honestly I think she’ll fall in love with living nicely and that’ll be one huge reason they’ll limit their family size.  Bobby is only one of 3, so it’s not like he is expecting 20 kids. Plus he grew up nicely in a upper middle class situation with a gated community home with a pool, etc. and even his college apartment was “fancy” by Tori’s standards.  And ministry isn’t exactly a high paying gig; unless he follows Evan’s lead and suddenly signs up for trade school (which honestly he could bc he is friends with Kelton too and will see how nice a life Kelton/Josie will have and at some point may get frustrated with 4 kids and a church salary), I can see them having 3 kids or 6 kids max.  Plus complainer that Tori is, I think she will be REALLY overwhelmed with mothering young kids w/ no family in the area – sure Carlin will be in the area but she’ll have her own kids by then to deal with.

I think this is much of what’s happening with Zach – I think he’s enamored with a nice life bc his parents didn’t do a particularly great job with that – so now it’s mortgages, granite counters, 2 kids for now – maybe they’ll end up with 3-4 max, and a tidy home where you take your shoes off before entry!! Alyssa isn’t dissimilar – mortgage, house, and finicky about a nice home – though she may want to slow down the baby making though she does say the goal is 6.  Kelton/Josie will be the same – I mean he’s already buying his wife a sizeable diamond because he makes an actual salary and can afford it. Plus he grew up in a nice home – as his dad own his own IT/tech business (the plumbing business is his uncle’s).

Yeah I don’t understand the vow renewal even with UP paying.  If they were offering anything, why not an anniversary party? It can be just as nice as a wedding – sit down dinner, black tie, actual dinner which they may not have even had last time.  And what was with Whit’s reference to “honoring her parents” with the vow renewal. Did they not attend the first wedding or were they estranged or something back then?

[BitterApple]

cereality, 100%. The apartment had dated white appliances and cheap oak cabinets. The way Tori was carrying on you'd think she had marble floors and a six burner Viking range. It's perfectly fine for a young couple trying to get established, but luxurious? Hardly. The Bateseses were really showing their Hillbilly on that one. 

Regarding Whit, her bio parents weren't in the picture during her original wedding. Her adoptive parents were the ones who gave her away and likely paid for the wedding. They've apparently been given a pink slip at some point in the last five years, because we haven't seen hide nor hair of them since.

Edited September 9, 2018 by BitterApple

[Sew Sumi]

Whitney was not in communication with her bio parents when she married Zach (the first time).

[floridamom]

Great posts here, folks. I agree that the Bates girls are showing their 'hillbilly'. 

As far as Whit's parents go, I respect that her life before joining this TV show is her own personal business. However, I see Kelly's fingerprints all over this one. I bet dollars to doughnuts that it was Kelly who 'encouraged' Whit to re-connect with her bio parents. Adoption, etc., is NOT for these folks with 'sins of the fathers' and all that. The Bates parents do not know what could be in the past of Whit's adoptive folks..etc. Whitney's parents were neglectful enough to have lost custody of her in the first place, so I believe there were some serious things going on back then.  Honoring her parents? I would think at that time of her first wedding, she did just that. Her adoptive parents were actually parents to her. Too bad that her bio folks weren't in her life then, I assume they earned that one with whatever circumstances removed Whitney from their custody in the first place. I agree that an out right wedding was ridiculous for these two and that a very nice anniversary party/dinner would have been more tasteful and less wasteful.

I don't like the 'commercials within tv segments' as AARP did here. I highly doubt that the Bates are members of AARP because it is not a religious organization and they don't believe in those things in the first place. They are fame whoring themselves for the sake of continuing their TV show.  This family has changed a lot also due to the money. Who can casually afford lasik surgery, trips to the Bahamas near Christmas and a family wedding, trips to NYC. I can't afford to go to NYC due to the sheer cost of staying there and I have a nice job as does my husband. We are not in debt other than our home mortgage. How can these people afford these things when most of them don't have jobs?

[RebeccatheWriter]

If I have the timeline straight, the other reason (Whitney's parents being the first) for the vow renewal was to announce their pregnancy with baby 3. Whitney later miscarried so I'm not sure how UP will edit that. 

Since Zach is the only boy in the family to get married so far, UP probably had some say and pull in filming the renewal. Since TLC filmed Erin's wedding for one of the Duggar episodes and Alyssa's was filmed by ABC, their weddings can only be shown via pictures and talking head remembrances of the event. I don't recall Zach's wedding being featured on any of the Duggar's shows. I want to say that it wasn't, as it was close to Christmas and too soon after Erin's wedding to feasibly film it. So for storytelling alone, UP probably would love the footage of Zach and Whitney in front of everyone in formal attire, cutting a cake, etc.

Back when they got married, Kelly was the one doing all the blogging for the family. Erin's wedding was featured prominently and every other post was pictures from it. Alyssa's got similar treatment and was the subject on one of the Nightline stories about the family. There were only a few pics of Zach and Whitney's wedding. People asked for more and commented frequently that they were surprised by the lack of attention since they are such over the top wedding people. So I can understand why Whitney might want a do over in her own style and sensibilities that weren't so heavy on Kelly's preferences.  

Personally, I would have used the money more wisely, but as people have said it was probably comped by UP and advertisers. Besides there are few things these people get to do that is not focused on a large group. Weddings and births are just about it. 

[Bridget]

On 9/6/2018 at 6:38 PM, sATL said:

agree. And if she's gained weight or figure has shifted due to two little ones - alter the dress. I guess technically you can have a vow renewal every/any year, but 5 seems a little soon to me. If you want to have an anniversary party, just to get folks together , then call it that. Back to the AARP budget tool - they are doing well financially but to buy another full blown wedding dress... nahh... 

Here's a pix from Mr. Google ... Isn't that Lauren Swanson Duggar in the background ?

Upper left side: Jessa & Bin!

[Squirrely]

On 9/8/2018 at 12:06 PM, debbie311 said:

A vow renewal after five years?  That seems a little much.  And those were full-on wedding gowns she was trying on.  Even if UP is paying for the dress, or if Miss Renee is giving the dress in exchange for the free tv advertising, it just seems silly to me.  Maybe I am just too practical, but I would not spend thousands of dollars on a dress for a five year "renewal" even if someone else was paying for it.  A fantastic vacation, "second honeymoon?" YES.  But maybe they will be getting that also.

I'm glad I'm not alone in this thought. I thought the whole point was "until death do us part," so what's to renew? Have an anniversary party to celebrate those vows still holding! 

I could possibly see it for a long-time couple that separated and got back together. Or if my neighbors, who will celebrate their 60th (!) year of marriage soon, wanted to celebrate that way, I guess I could see it (that's so not their thing, though).  But 5 years of fundie marriage where splitting isn't even an option? 

[ehall1052]

I wonder if Kelton’s dad moved to his current home after his wife passed away. From the outside, there wasn’t any plants or shrubs to give it some curb appeal and the inside lacks any decorative touches to make it homey.  Just seemed like the house lacked a woman’s touch.

[BitterApple]

17 minutes ago, ehall1052 said:

I wonder if Kelton’s dad moved to his current home after his wife passed away. From the outside, there wasn’t any plants or shrubs to give it some curb appeal and the inside lacks any decorative touches to make it homey.  Just seemed like the house lacked a woman’s touch.

Omg, no joke, my first thought when I saw that house was it screamed "bachelor pad." It was clean and nice, but sparse. There was none of the usual tchotchke's, pops of color or other decorative traits typical of a home with a woman in it. If I'm not mistaken the Balkas were living in South Carolina and moved back to Tennessee after their mother's death, so that would explain the home's utilitarian appearance. 

Overall this episode was just more filler. Gil grifting building his church. Engagement talk. Erin wanting more babies. 

I did think it was adorable when Whitney asked Bradley if she should have another baby and he said "I like this one" when he was holding Everly. I think Everly looks exactly like Alyssa's oldest daughter.

[cereality]

I believe Kelton’s family lived in NC or SC with his mother and then they moved to Knoxville. At some point someone had posted a local TV interview done back in the day (highlighting a local tragedy) and that interview was by a Carolina TV station and in that segment, Michael Balka said that he’d be moving his kids to Knoxville soon. IDK if he was originally from Knoxville – maybe – Kelton works for his uncle’s plumbing business; it’s possible that uncle is from Michael’s side of the family and Michael wanted to move his kids to raise them near family.

I noticed the same thing about their house when I saw the inside – very neat and clean. I thought the finishings were nice – nice granite counters, cabinets etc. But it didn’t look homey or lived in.  That’s totally what I’d expect from a guy – great hardware, good quality equipment, but not necessarily put together with design in mind. When they were sitting on the couch, I noticed that the family/living room was just a couch and coffee tables by themselves – no pictures, lamps, throw blankets/pillows etc. I think unfortunately their home has lacked a woman’s touch for years.

I think Kelton is the oldest and was 13 at the time; that means some of his siblings (certainly the youngest one but also a few older that that sister) probably have no memories of their mom and that type of home life. Kelton has said before that his siblings LOVE it when Josie comes and hangs out, just eats with them, plays with their pets etc. And my first thought – those kids are so missing a woman’s touch that to them an 18 yr old female’s touch feels motherly.

Gotta say as the years go by Kelly is REALLY starting to grate on my nerves. I get it – they were taking Josie to Utah and wouldn’t it be nice if Kelton proposed there. But come on -- Kelly says, I don’t want to put down/take over Kelton’s idea of proposing at the bridge, but I’ve totally been dreaming about this engagement for Josie. WTF!? It doesn’t matter what YOU want. And while you said you didn’t want to take over, you DID. I didn’t think Kelton looked WILD about Utah. He looked pretty serious, looked at his dad a few times and when his dad wasn’t saying no (which unlike Kelly realizes isn’t his place), Kelton THEN goes, I think this could be pretty great.

Yeah he did the courtship ask at the covered bridge, but you know what – courtship means jack shit to him and he only did it bc your family requires it. Engagement is the BIG ask and he wants it to be at the bridge and you kind of pissed on his idea. He has said before that bridge and that area generally meant a lot to his mom and dad – I think they either got engaged there or honeymooned in that area or both. Have some sensitivity – maybe he wants to ask HIS bride where his dad asked HIS MOM. Maybe something like that makes him feel like his mom is a part of it just like your family!? Maybe he wants the engagement and courtship to be at the same place bc that “book ends” it for him. In any event, why can’t you say – hey we’re going to Utah this summer, you’re welcome to fly out and ask her there IF THAT’S SOMETHING YOU WANT TO DO BUT YOU SHOULD PROPOSE WHERE/WHEN YOU THINK IT’S BEST FOR YOU AND JOSIE.

Was disappointed to hear from Kelton that Josie had been begging for engagement/a ring just like her sisters. Ew. Somehow I thought she was more mature than Erin/Michaela/Carlin/Tori and wouldn’t ask him to propose like that. What is sooooo wrong with “courting” for a while, getting married next fall etc!? You’ll survive Josie, you’re only 18 and if 23 yr old isn’t pressuring you to marry asap for sex, why is an 18 yr old female soooo desperate?!

And Erin – holding a newborn shouldn’t give you baby fever bc your newborn (and your 1 and 2 yr olds) qualify as babies!?

[BitterApple]

I was surprised to hear that Josie was pushy about marriage as well. FFS, girlfriend. You're 18! This guy's already waited an eternity to court you, I highly doubt he'd go through all that trouble just to drag it out even longer or run away altogether.

I wonder what has this second group of girls so insecure about marriage? Was it watching Michael having to drag a reluctant groom to the altar? 

Regarding Mr. Balka, I'm a little surprised he never remarried. Maybe he still carries a torch for his wife, but it's kind of sad to think about those kids not having a nurturing female presence in their lives. I'm sure he's a great dad and his relatives are wonderful, but it's not the same. 

I wonder if Josie and Kelly cooked up the Utah engagement idea together and Kelly pushed it on Kelton. If not, then Josie would have to be the biggest dingbat on the planet if she didn't guess why her birthday trip was moved up by two months. So either way, the engagement wasn't really a surprise.

[iluvobx]

I don't like it when Kelly goes on and on about an engagement/marriage and what she wants.  You HAD yours, let your girls have theirs.  You have no right to push your wants and wishes on them.  Plus, the crap of them being present when the girl is asked?  Seriously?  My parents were not around when Mr. iluv asked me and we sure weren't around when my children either proposed or was proposed too.  Both sets of parents knew when my son was going to ask his for her hand in marriage.  I saw the ring, he went and talked to her parents beforehand but at not point did it dawn on us to ask or even be there when he proposed.   Not sure what Kelly thinks she has missed in her youth as she had more freedom that she has allowed her own children, so there is no reason to try to relive her youth.                                                           

[andromeda331]

I'm glad I wasn't the only annoyed by Kelly. Its not your engagement Kelly! Let Kelton decide how he wants to propose to his girlfriend. Its about them and not you. I didn't like the way she forced Kelton to accept her idea. Kelton's was a very nice idea it was something that would mean a lot to him and Josie. I also love how Josie wanted to get married in Utah but nope that can't happen. God forbid she gets want she wants. They could easily take just the family and maybe a few friends and get married there. 

[Evagirl]

36 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I'm glad I wasn't the only annoyed by Kelly. Its not your engagement Kelly! Let Kelton decide how he wants to propose to his girlfriend. Its about them and not you. I didn't like the way she forced Kelton to accept her idea. Kelton's was a very nice idea it was something that would mean a lot to him and Josie. I also love how Josie wanted to get married in Utah but nope that can't happen. God forbid she gets want she wants. They could easily take just the family and maybe a few friends and get married there. 

I agree with you and all the others who said Kelly got on their nerves.  She was really rubbing me the wrong way last night.  I think I finally muted the TV when she kept going on and on and on.  She should have just listened to Kelton and said, "Whatever and however you want to do this if fine with us."  Poor kid looked like a deflated balloon when she brought this Utah mess.  He couldn't figure out what was so special about Utah.  But the bridge had special meaning for him and for Josie.

I guess there won't be any more weddings for a while unless one of the older brothers get married.  Of the three unmarried older brothers, I think Trace will get married first.  I don't know why, but he seems the most mature of the bunch, and has blossomed into quite a looker too. 

[BitterApple]

Cynical thought: Kelly wanted the engagement done in Utah because that way UP would pay for the trip. The network isn't going to dish out thousands to film one of the random kids' birthday weekends, but engagements are ratings gold.

[cereality]

I think Josie/Tori/Carlin were VERY shrewd about marriage. A lot of it I bet has to do with watching Michaela fretting and praying as an “old maid” at 25 that Brandon – who was hardly interested and had to be convinced by his sisters that she was the one and then nagged by Kelly to propose – would actually marry her; bc if he didn’t, who was she gonna find at [gasp] age 25+??

I also think that when Erin got married, ALL of the sisters were enamored with Chad and started making plans to find their own Prince Chad. I think they probably realized right then that Erin and Chad were pure coincidence – that he saw her at a dance. Yet amongst fundies, for every 1 guy who looks like Chad and is employable and a pushover to his wife (which all 3 of these women need esp Carlin and Tori), there will be 20 that are Duggar-ugly and crazy headship types. I also think they all want to go fundie lite(er) than their parents so at least that opened up the market beyond just gothard fundies to more regular conservative Christians/evangelicals.

I think all 3 of them RACED to college not bc of any interest in school bc it would up their odds to find a husband. None of them ended up with a classmate, but I think they all went in thinking that every female friend they meet has the potential for introducing them to their brothers, cousins etc. Bobby/Tori are always vague about how they met as Tori says a friend at college told her they knew a guy in FL that would be a perfect match. I think they’re tweaking the story a bit and that friend was Kelton. He had already met Josie when she was 14-ish and Gil said no; he went off to college miserable and depressed (per their story on their wedding website) but still wanted to stay in the picture. What better way to have an excuse to see her once in a while than if he introduces bff Bobby to one of Josie’s 1,000 sisters – they’ll come visit, Josie will chaperone once in a while and realize he’s still into her, Tori will report – Kelton was asking about you, he’s cute etc.. . . .  I think Tori/Josie just don’t tell the truth on that one bc they don’t want to say directly that yeah – Josie was talking to Kelton the entire time Gil said no. And then when those 2 couples locked it up, Carlin got worried about being left behind, was whining to Erin about it, next time Erin goes to a church function and sees male waiters she says – hmm he has a d—k and is cute enough and is doing something for church, he’d be PERFECT for my sister.

Add to that fundie math and the pressure was on for these fools. All of the sons/sons in law who have married early on – Zach; Chad; John – were 25-26. They all went for girls 4-5 yrs younger. That means these girls quickly figured out that with most eligible guys in this group being off the market by 25/26 and wanting girls to be 20-22, they needed to lock it down and start courting by yr 2 of college at the latest so they could be married by 21. Bc if not – the “good ones” would be taken . . . .

[Evagirl]

2 hours ago, cereality said:

I think Josie/Tori/Carlin were VERY shrewd about marriage. A lot of it I bet has to do with watching Michaela fretting and praying as an “old maid” at 25 that Brandon – who was hardly interested and had to be convinced by his sisters that she was the one and then nagged by Kelly to propose – would actually marry her; bc if he didn’t, who was she gonna find at [gasp] age 25+??

I also think that when Erin got married, ALL of the sisters were enamored with Chad and started making plans to find their own Prince Chad. I think they probably realized right then that Erin and Chad were pure coincidence – that he saw her at a dance. Yet amongst fundies, for every 1 guy who looks like Chad and is employable and a pushover to his wife (which all 3 of these women need esp Carlin and Tori), there will be 20 that are Duggar-ugly and crazy headship types. I also think they all want to go fundie lite(er) than their parents so at least that opened up the market beyond just gothard fundies to more regular conservative Christians/evangelicals.

I think all 3 of them RACED to college not bc of any interest in school bc it would up their odds to find a husband. None of them ended up with a classmate, but I think they all went in thinking that every female friend they meet has the potential for introducing them to their brothers, cousins etc. Bobby/Tori are always vague about how they met as Tori says a friend at college told her they knew a guy in FL that would be a perfect match. I think they’re tweaking the story a bit and that friend was Kelton. He had already met Josie when she was 14-ish and Gil said no; he went off to college miserable and depressed (per their story on their wedding website) but still wanted to stay in the picture. What better way to have an excuse to see her once in a while than if he introduces bff Bobby to one of Josie’s 1,000 sisters – they’ll come visit, Josie will chaperone once in a while and realize he’s still into her, Tori will report – Kelton was asking about you, he’s cute etc.. . . .  I think Tori/Josie just don’t tell the truth on that one bc they don’t want to say directly that yeah – Josie was talking to Kelton the entire time Gil said no. And then when those 2 couples locked it up, Carlin got worried about being left behind, was whining to Erin about it, next time Erin goes to a church function and sees male waiters she says – hmm he has a d—k and is cute enough and is doing something for church, he’d be PERFECT for my sister.

Add to that fundie math and the pressure was on for these fools. All of the sons/sons in law who have married early on – Zach; Chad; John – were 25-26. They all went for girls 4-5 yrs younger. That means these girls quickly figured out that with most eligible guys in this group being off the market by 25/26 and wanting girls to be 20-22, they needed to lock it down and start courting by yr 2 of college at the latest so they could be married by 21. Bc if not – the “good ones” would be taken . . . .

Cereality, you should write a book - LOL!  I was hanging on to every word in your post like it was the world's greatest novel!  Good insight.  I don't know how much of your speculation is true, but it sure makes good reading.  Thank you.

[FaithfullyYours]

I think Josie (and Carlin) wants marriage NOW! because she just wants to start her life, make her own decisions and get the hell out of that house. Most 19 year olds aren’t thinking about a wedding, but they are excited about becoming independent. Most gain this independence by going away to college or getting an apartment with friends. Technically Josie could also do this, but Kelly would probably have a heart attack and Gil would probably disown her. So unfortunately, marriage is the only way out. What these girls seem to not realize is that they’re going from one headship to another. In the beginning I’m sure it’ll be great. After a while I think they may start to realize there actually were other ways out. They just needed the guts to try one. 

[floridamom]

This episode:  Too much talk from Kelly. Shut up, please.

[Absolom]

It did not make the top 150 cable shows of the day.

[KnoxForPres]

My weird radar for Kelton continues. He seems like a robot programmed for “I will talk and smile exactly how I think I’m supposed to and never reveal my true self”.   I seem to be alone in this and for that I’m glad and hope I’m wrong. I want the kid to be normal because I really like Josie but man, he seems non-relatable on all levels for me.

In this episode Kelly made a statement that involved using both hands (think referencing when she had 3 tiny ones) so she had to remove her hand from Gil’s thigh and he did an insta thigh hand placement on hers. Do they think us normals out here will suspect marital woe if they aren’t touching at all times?  

I’ve never wanted children (though I love them very much) but I have always had  animals.  One dog today (Knox).  When I see a puppy I may fall in love but I’m cognizant of the time, effort, money I’ve put into her and how special our relationship is.  It’s so weird to me this “newborn” phenomenon and seems very short sighted and silly at best- stupid at worst.  

[iluvobx]

I don't get them and the newborn thing.  Erin, you have a newborn!  I loved holding newborns but was also glad to hand them back to their mommy.  I remembered the nonsleeping nights, the constant feedings, diaper changing and everything else that went with a newborn.  I might have said I'd like another one but I really did not.  I was very happy with my two.  As a matter of fact, I always said that if my second child had been my first, I would not have had another one.    The second one was a handful until the age of 5. 

If Whitney and Zach are ok with just 2 children, then the family needs to leave them alone about more.  Maybe they can only afford the 2 they have and decided they are done.  My dad came from a large family but he never wanted a large family.  Actually, none of his siblings had more than 3 children and one of the older siblings had none.  That was her choice.

[BitterApple]

Erin is either the most Zen woman on the planet or she's swallowing happy pills by the handful, because three kids under three sounds like the stuff nightmares are made of. I can't imagine having one kid in the throes of the Terrible Two's, a one year old and a newborn. From what I've seen she manages them pretty well, though. When Carson got fussy about the other kids playing with his toys, she firmly told him to share and he did so without complaint. 

I can see Zach and Whit keeping their family small-ish with maybe four kids. If she hadn't had the miscarriage, Kaci and the new baby would've been two years apart, which is pretty standard spacing, even for normal people. They seem to have enough sense to realize the more kids they have the less luxuries they'll be able to afford. I don't think Zach wants to go back to the days of his early childhood where the kids were piled up like firewood.

[RebeccatheWriter]

8 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Erin is either the most Zen woman on the planet or she's swallowing happy pills by the handful, because three kids under three sounds like the stuff nightmares are made of. I can't imagine having one kid in the throes of the Terrible Two's, a one year old and a newborn. From what I've seen she manages them pretty well, though. When Carson got fussy about the other kids playing with his toys, she firmly told him to share and he did so without complaint. 

 

3

It is odd that she has taken to motherhood so easily, as she was previously portrayed as the older sister who did very little in the ways of raising her siblings or doing much more than her music thing and her hair. I know she was the one teaching music (piano) lessons to some of the younger children, but you never really saw her as the one always carrying a baby/toddler (Michael) or cooking (Alyssa). Even the boys seemed more involved with their siblings than she did. She got married and boom - it was like Little Suzie Homemaker came out. She's got three kids and clearly wants more. She's cooking and familiar with celebrity chefs and techniques. She hosts her younger siblings for cooking lessons, sleepovers, etc. 

So either she was wrongly portrayed before or girlfriend had a personality transplant after marriage. 

[floridamom]

My theory on Erin's mothering is this: Perhaps she was the least 'involved' with her younger sisters & brothers, so she hasn't spent many years of her young life raising babies like her sisters did. She's not worn out and tired of the constant 'babies' around her. Mothering is 'somewhat' new for her and perhaps a better experience. (I don't think she's on happy pills, I think she just isn't that sharp about what real life is like regarding finances, etc. to understand what impact MORE CHILDREN would have on Chad.

The instant compliance from Carson is part of their blanket-instant obedience training beliefs.

[flyingdi]

I'd just like to point out there is a big difference between raising other people's kids(even siblings) and raising your own.  I t think that is why it is surprising us who among the Duggar and Bates children seem to be good parents.

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, iluvobx said:

I don't get them and the newborn thing.  Erin, you have a newborn!  I loved holding newborns but was also glad to hand them back to their mommy.  I remembered the nonsleeping nights, the constant feedings, diaper changing and everything else that went with a newborn.  I might have said I'd like another one but I really did not.  I was very happy with my two.  As a matter of fact, I always said that if my second child had been my first, I would not have had another one.    The second one was a handful until the age of 5. 

If Whitney and Zach are ok with just 2 children, then the family needs to leave them alone about more.  Maybe they can only afford the 2 they have and decided they are done.  My dad came from a large family but he never wanted a large family.  Actually, none of his siblings had more than 3 children and one of the older siblings had none.  That was her choice.

I really don't get it either. Newborns are great. Its fun to hold a new baby.  But yes its also hard work. The diapers and feedings, trying to get him or her to sleep, trying to get sleep and/or everything done while the baby is asleep. When you have two more kids each a year apart? That's a lot of work. What about the milestones of each kid? What about the fun ad craziness if each year older they get? I love my nephew as a newborn and a baby but once he hit two he became so much fun! He could walk, talk and watching him react to things he was seeing for the first time! He's not any less cool or fun now that he's in elementary school. Watching him with new interests and seeing how long they last. Playing football, become obsesses with hockey. It drives me crazy that they focus so much on the newborn and don't really appreciate the other ages. I guess I'm more used to people having one baby and just enjoying him or her for a few years. All their firsts before deciding to have a second child. Also, money. Kids are expensive and I can't figure out how Chad is supporting five people not including pets (if they still have them) and a new baby every single year. 

[riverblue22]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I really don't get it either. Newborns are great. Its fun to hold a new baby.  But yes its also hard work. The diapers and feedings, trying to get him or her to sleep, trying to get sleep and/or everything done while the baby is asleep. When you have two more kids each a year apart? That's a lot of work. What about the milestones of each kid? What about the fun ad craziness if each year older they get? I love my nephew as a newborn and a baby but once he hit two he became so much fun! He could walk, talk and watching him react to things he was seeing for the first time! He's not any less cool or fun now that he's in elementary school. Watching him with new interests and seeing how long they last. Playing football, become obsesses with hockey. It drives me crazy that they focus so much on the newborn and don't really appreciate the other ages. I guess I'm more used to people having one baby and just enjoying him or her for a few years. All their firsts before deciding to have a second child. Also, money. Kids are expensive and I can't figure out how Chad is supporting five people not including pets (if they still have them) and a new baby every single year. 

And to that add that Erin has to have daily shots just to maintain pregnancy and when the time for childbirth, she seems absolutely terrified.

[RebeccatheWriter]

20 hours ago, riverblue22 said:

And to that add that Erin has to have daily shots just to maintain pregnancy and when the time for childbirth, she seems absolutely terrified.

Yes, but if she is following her mother's lead and that of IBLP, there is no greater sacrifice than dying (or coming close to it) by giving birth. The Duggars play this up a bit more, but Kelly has said several things in that direction before. The Duggars even expect the children to thank Michelle on their birthdays and acknowledge that she could have died giving birth to them. 

Logically, it makes no sense. She is high risk and could end up leaving Chad with half a dozen kids. Yet she feeds that addiction and duty as if she had no real say in the matter. 

I really don't get it either. Newborns are great. Its fun to hold a new baby.  But yes its also hard work. The diapers and feedings, trying to get him or her to sleep, trying to get sleep and/or everything done while the baby is asleep. When you have two more kids each a year apart? That's a lot of work. What about the milestones of each kid? What about the fun ad craziness if each year older they get? I love my nephew as a newborn and a baby but once he hit two he became so much fun! He could walk, talk and watching him react to things he was seeing for the first time! He's not any less cool or fun now that he's in elementary school. Watching him with new interests and seeing how long they last. Playing football, become obsesses with hockey. It drives me crazy that they focus so much on the newborn and don't really appreciate the other ages. I guess I'm more used to people having one baby and just enjoying him or her for a few years. All their firsts before deciding to have a second child. Also, money. Kids are expensive and I can't figure out how Chad is supporting five people not including pets (if they still have them) and a new baby every single year. 

 

I don't get it either. The first few months are the roughest. I appreciate my sleep, privacy, and me time too much. Children become more interesting as they grow and mature. Not that I don't appreciate the cuteness of a newborn, but (saying this as a mom) I found the newborn period to be pretty interchangeable among my children. It wasn't until they really grew into personalities that I felt like I truly knew them. I'm not saying I didn't love my babies. It's just that I was more comfortable when they could tell me what they wanted/needed and I wasn't simply feeding, soothing, and changing diapers 24/7. 

I know that some parents seem to thrive on that newborn stage because of the attention it gets from others. People want to see the new baby. Hold the new baby. They tell you that you look good. They bring presents. They listen to your birth story. I've always felt that Michelle Duggar and Kelly Bates seem to thrive on that. They weren't truly at peace with themselves unless they were being commended and congratulated for another baby (whether pregnancy or just after the birth). Michelle especially seemed to thrive on the whole mother to a micro-preemie with Josie. Kelly seems to have similar tendencies that have carried over to being a grandmother (unlike Michelle). Erin seems to be falling into that slot too. Where Alyssa prefers a more private birth and time with her husband and children, Erin seems to want to invite the world. I'm not saying either one is right or wrong. It's just interesting that she seems to be following that pattern of the IBLP wives/mothers. 

Edited September 18, 2018 by RebeccatheWriter

[RebeccatheWriter]

Double Post

Edited September 18, 2018 by RebeccatheWriter

[IndianPaintbrush]

On 9/17/2018 at 8:05 AM, RebeccatheWriter said:

It is odd that she has taken to motherhood so easily, as she was previously portrayed as the older sister who did very little in the ways of raising her siblings or doing much more than her music thing and her hair. I know she was the one teaching music (piano) lessons to some of the younger children, but you never really saw her as the one always carrying a baby/toddler (Michael) or cooking (Alyssa). 

Whenever I watch this show I think about how ironic it is that Michaela doesn't have kids yet, and Erin has 3. And yet the sisters seem to have gotten closer because of it, which is really nice and unexpected. I'm fascinated by sibling dynamics.

Edited September 20, 2018 by IndianPaintbrush

[BitterApple]

I think Erin understands Michael's struggle better than Kelly or Alyssa. When she was suffering all those miscarriages prior to being diagnosed with the clotting disorder, I'm sure she went through a period of wondering if she'd ever be able to have a child. I know Michael's issue is slightly different in that she can't conceive in the first place, but the pain and frustration have to be similar. 

[cereality]

Wow Bobby and Tori really did NOT want a girl. Way to make any future daughter feel like crap given that she’ll run across these episodes one day. I know they compensated with “we both want a boy FIRST” but I wasn’t buying it. Bobby very much had the – I MADE a boy – behavior; even flexing and taking a bow when they revealed that there would be a d----.  And Tori – IDK she seems like she’d have issues with any little girl having Bobby’s attention or being anything other than the Queen Mama of her home; more likely that a bunch of boys will “worship” her than a daughter esp. when she’ll be the type picking on her daughter for her hair, weight, whatever else.  At least the Smith fam must be happy – if they have to put up with Tori, at least they get to carry their name to a 4th gen.

And nice to see Zach and Whit have gotten on the $$ train from UPTV. I mean it’s totally normal to do your only 5 min segment of a show with a box of Honey Nut Cheerios prominently placed on the table. But placement isn’t enough, you just DISCUSS cereal the whole time. You must say to your husband – this is the only whole grain cereal the kids like. Your husband must say how he grew up on off brand everything but real Honey Nut Cheerios (bullshit – no way they were buying a $3 box of cereal back then that couldn’t even feed half of that family for one breakfast).  And then you must show your daughter the bee that is the product’s mascot and do a TH with your son who proclaims his love for the product and milk and spoons. 

And I think Kelton is way over doing it on their proposal. Just go to freaking Utah, take her someplace, drop to one knee, give a speech, and ASK.  It seems like juvenile nonsense to have a scrapbook that you 2 put together along the way, with charms you give her for a charm bracelet thru the trip, and then when you give the last charm, you propose with a ring. Way to keep the mystery alive in an engagement requiring 37 steps?! Not that it’s any mystery anyway when you show up at her place of employment with your future in laws and your dad to take her on a trip to her dream spot. When else are these people ever given anything they dream of – except wedding/engagement related stuff??

Normal people would have just let the girl fly ahead on her preplanned vacation with her parents. Showed up maybe 1 day or 1 afternoon early to scout out a location of where to ask, surprised her the next day just by being present in town, taken her to said location/dinner and just asked!!

As much as I like Josie better than her sisters, gotta say she’s just as desperate for marriage as Tori, Carlin, Erin, Michaela were. Difference is – she’s more like Alyssa, where she doesn’t loudly proclaim it at every turn of the step. Yet in her THs with her going on about how she has no ring and hopes there’s a plan being formulated and whining to Kelton about needing a ring – yeah – that desperation at 18 makes her just as unattractive as her sisters.

Different note – Kelton’s siblings are really close in age. His sister looks only to be 1-2 yrs older and then the 2 brothers are younger than him but have got to be late teens/early 20s now; it’s only the one little sister that is very young.

[Sew Sumi]

Kelton is the oldest. I just assumed the sister was around Josie's age. I have no interest in looking up the Balka family tree.

Edited September 21, 2018 by Sew Sumi

[BitterApple]

I forgot this was on, so I'll have to watch OnDemand later, but wow, this episode sounds like a doozy.

A drawn-out discussion about cereal? Good grief, could you be any more obvious? I also wholeheartedly agree the Bates kids never saw a name brand version of anything while they were growing up. You're not fooling anyone, Zach.

[riverblue22]

I did like Kelton's bracelet idea.  That is a gift that Josie will treasure forever.  

The Bates young men seem more immature every time I see them.  I don't think any of them are close to being ready for marriage.

[floridamom]

Why the sudden product placement and commercial within a commercial? Last week it was AARP, this week Cheerios? Unattractive and tacky of the network AND the Bates to do this. It needs to stop.

[FaithfullyYours]

I thought the charms and surprises Kelton had in store for Josie were sweet and well thought out. The only thing I think he should change is the scrapbook. He should already have it completed. Was he saying he wanted them to work on it together? The last thing a young woman would want to do is a joint scrapbooking project that includes her parents and future father in law. You know, since they’re prohibited from being alone. 

[flyingdi]

Methinks Nathan is still a bit upset.  Paraphrasing,  "You get down on one knee and you ask.  If she's says no, you get up and move on!"

[FaithfullyYours]

flyingdi - Ohhh that’s what Nathan said. I thought he said, if she says no, you keep asking ?. I was getting stalker vibes ?. 

[Adeejay]

On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 5:36 PM, flyingdi said:

I'd just like to point out there is a big difference between raising other people's kids(even siblings) and raising your own.  I t think that is why it is surprising us who among the Duggar and Bates children seem to be good parents.

I agree. Based on the way they interacted with their "buddies", I thought Jill Duggar would make a better parent than Jessa.  Boy was I wrong.  Jessa appears to be loving, warm and tender with her boys.  Jill on the other hand, seems cold and standoffish with Izzy and Sam. 

Kelly reminds me of Mrs. Bennett from "Pride and Prejudice".  Marrying off her girls seems to be her primary focus in life. 

[Sew Sumi]

2 hours ago, FaithfullyYours said:

flyingdi - Ohhh that’s what Nathan said. I thought he said, if she says no, you keep asking ?. I was getting stalker vibes ?. 

Yeah, this is what I heard as well. 

[sATL]

Just popping in for a moment, as I only saw 3 minutes of the latest eposide... Did I hear that Josie wanted to go to Utah??  WHY? What For ???   

I mean your Duggar counterparts get to travel internationally for their honeymoons and you picked....