Season 7 Discussion

[cereality]

Seriously - what does Bobby see in Tori besides a woman that’ll sleep with him?? Certainly not a winning personality. It’s one thing to not care that much about wedding specifics, it’s another to be rude to people who’ve come from other states to help. With the cake - did she have to say to her aunt - I don’t care; it’s not important - repeatedly? Why not say — hmm we’re not cake people so IDK how about something simple like chocolate or vanilla unless you suggest something else? Or simply - can you pick for us since you do this all the time?

IMO Bobby said it all when he said - those older boys (Trace; Law; Nathan) are doing their thing, traveling the world and not letting girls distract them. Well son - who told you to move to BF Tenn to work in a scrap metal yard and live in a trailer so you could marry 6 months after graduation? You could’ve gotten a job in FL or even a city a few hours away like Nashville, experienced post college professional life, been long distance w. your annoying chick and THEN gotten married in 2-3 yrs. But she badgered you into moving and proposing and so you did and now you’re stuck.

I’m always “surprised” by how much Gil loves the kids and doesn’t view them as an obligation. When Kelly is talking about how Trace will probably marry first, Gil says - he’s JUST a kid, let’s send him away to flight school or something so he’ll be too busy for girls. It was sweet. Kelly is desperate for the kids (esp the girls) to lock it down but Gil wants to keep them around as long as he can — even the boys; he doesn’t seem to act like - let’s get them off the payroll.

Jackson/Warden/Isiah - annoying and immature. Not shocking as that’s how 13-15 yr old boys are but grabbing each other’s nipples on camera?? Come on. I don’t think Law/Trace/Nathan acted that way at similar ages. Plus no girls (sisters) could attend the party - is laser tag too rough for them or is eating cake not lady like?!

Is Jonas (Traces friend from college) courting someone or trying to? He’s around the house a LOT for someone who is just a friend and he’s always in the background so I doubt he’s getting any TV $. Though I guess it’s also possible that he’s recently found the lord and the Bates are trying to indoctrinate, bring him into fundism by showing him how great their family is.

Edited March 9, 2018 by cereality

[Evagirl]

5 hours ago, flyingdi said:

Does anyone else think Tori is being downright rude?

"What kind of cake do you want?"

I don't care!

"What kind of dress do you want?"

I don't care!

She's not only be indecisive, she's coming across as downright snotty about it!  At least Joy Duggar actually looked like she had no idea how to make a decision!

Two second of this attitude and my mother would've said, "All right my daughter doesn't want to make a decision?  I'm in charge now you will all go through me!"

If I had a daughter who was acting like Tori, I was say, "Lets just have a small ceremony here at the house or out in the yard or even at our new church."  But since I'm sure the producers are springing for the wedding, they've got to go all out.  It's obvious that Tori doesn't care about the wedding itself, she just wants to be married - period.

It doesn't bother me that Bobby is working in a scrap metal yard and living in a trailer.  It's what he wants to do to be near the woman he loves.  He's sacrificing to be near her.  I agree that he's been pushed and prodded by Kelly Jo and Tori, but he's still a man.  He also appears to have decent parents (unlike poor Ben), who I am sure tried to talk some sense into him.  Bobby doesn't come across as horny teenager like Ben when "courting" Jessa.  He seems to have his head on straight and knows that it won't be all unicorns and rainbows.  Tori on the other hand...

[birkenstock]

You're right, I don't think there has been a girls only trip that didn't revolve around weddings, babies, or house decorating.  One thing that bugs me is that Kelly Jo finds a way to insert herself into trips. I understand she loves her daughters and wants to spend time with them, but wish that we could see the older married Bates sisters' relationship dynamics. I guess we saw Erin and Michael when they talked about Michael's infertility though I would like to see them relax and enjoy each other's company.  

I'm one of those nerdy people who enjoys watching wedding planning.  It was frustrating seeing how many people wanted to help make Tori's day special when she just sat off to the side with Bobby.  Her attitude came across ungrateful, smug and above it all.  I would rather watch Kendra engaged in picking out the groomsmen's ties than Tori being indecisive and brushing everything off.  I can understand not liking the process or thinking everything is over the top, but showing disrespect to your aunt who wants to make you happy is too much.

[AngelinaMaria]

Tori demonstrated pretty clearly that she isn't mature enough to get married!!!  Very rude behavior and lacking all awareness of how she was acting.

 

So, who is pregnant??  I'm guess Michalea.

[cereality]

4 minutes ago, AngelinaMaria said:

Tori demonstrated pretty clearly that she isn't mature enough to get married!!!  Very rude behavior and lacking all awareness of how she was acting.

 

So, who is pregnant??  I'm guess Michalea.

Where did that come from? Did someone say something about a pregnancy?

[birkenstock]

I haven't heard about any new pregnancies.  If it's from a show preview, both Erin and Alyssa are due in April so either could be in show previews/announce during the next episode.  

[Sew Sumi]

It's likely one of their announcements. Alyssa is due 4/2, and Erin later in the month, but she seems to deliver around 36 weeks, which would also be around the beginning of April. Remember, the show is only in September right now.

[floridamom]

I find it curious that many of these TV fundy brides are desperate for the 'ring', but are completely against planning for this wedding that they were bred to have. I guess being married is not as important as getting married....I think Tori was indeed an ungrateful brat and acted like a little girl who was forced to go shoe shopping with her mother.

I also find it quite sad how the Bates parents held their children back in life. Trace's desire to play on his school's basketball team is a great example. They lived in their own insular world, where they played ONLY pick up games in their own yard OR with exact-minded friends in their back yards. Gil's mother says that Gil wanted his children to love Jesus more than sports...well, Gil had no problem growing up in real school, playing real, organized sports and he grew up to love Jesus, didn't he? What they aren't saying here is the truth about this......the Bates children and also the Duggar children did not participate in any real activities outside of their homes because they lead and led an completely insular life, segregating their children from possibly coming in contact with children/parents who live and believe differently then they do...also, they did NOT have the money required to play real sports.

I wish they would quit lying and/or sugar-coating the truth here. They all seem to do it.

[woodscommaelle]

What a complete waste of everyone's time, Tori. Including us here on the boards.

Why have a wedding???

The two youngest boys. They haven't grown out of their cuteness. And I don't think they ever will. 

[woodscommaelle]

Michael(a) is so frail I'm afraid she's going to just break.  Please please let her get pregnant. I think that will turn her life around. 

Kelli is all types of nutty.  In a good way ?.

Tori looked really pretty in every dress she tried on. 

Edited March 16, 2018 by woodscommaelle

[cereality]

Tori was much less obnoxious than usual in this one.  She clearly had her heart set on the first gown – champagne color; lace.  Even when she tried the other 2, she kept saying – well we’ll hold these as backups to the first.  All the other sisters seemed to like the pure white ones better, yet when she kept saying – well the first one . . . . They all backed off and said any choice was great, she’d regret it if she didn’t get the first one, etc.  EXCEPT obnoxious Carlin of course who has to loudly, passively aggressively say “if you take pics in a champagne gown standing next to Bobby in a gray suit, everything will clash, but y’all do what you want . . . .” Uh way to be polite Carlin. Thankfully Alyssa and Whit jumped in with – change the guys’ suits to navy or midnight blue, those go great with champagne, it’s no big deal to change suit colors, and the guys can still wear purple ties with navy suits etc.

How do people not smack Carlin upside the head?? Not to mention during the family picnic, it was very telling that every time the camera panned to the long table where all the older siblings were sitting around esp to catch up with Alyssa and John and Brandon and Michael, who they don’t see often – Evan and Carlin were off on their own sitting on a blanket.  I get it, they’re young and in love but how much time does she need with that douche?? She can’t sit with the family for a bit?! Carlin and Evan are made for each other – both are obnoxious.

I thought it was nice that Alyssa called Michaela to give her the heads up that she’d be announcing a pregnancy.  I thought that was sensitive – though hopefully it was done to be nice, not to rub it in.  I also thought it was sweet in the TH when Zach said that he was hoping the announcement would be Michael’s after all the hardship she’s faced.  And as always I don’t get these fundie declarations of – OMG I’m pregnant again!? Alyssa didn’t seem thrilled to me and said it took her some time to accept that she’d be doing pregnancy again.  Um – sweetie – two young 20 somethings having unprotected sex, what did you think will happen?

Michaela looks frail (per above)?? Didn’t see that at all.  She looked exactly the same to me, maybe a bit quiet at the picnic though why wouldn’t she be – it wasn’t her announcement and she wasn’t going to steal Alyssa’s thunder?

Caught the trailer for the next episode – Chad is starting his own construction company? Damn these people feel ok taking risks – sole breadwinner leaves a job with a guaranteed salary to start a business which may or may not take off in an industry that historically tanks with every recession, despite the fact that he gets his wife pregnant yearly and she has high risk pregnancies and thus they NEED insurance . . . .Though I guess that’s the fundie goal – don’t work for anyone else so you can control who you’re around/excluded yourself from potential non Christian bosses/coworkers etc and you can control your schedule and be home all the time.

[flyingdi]

Major complaint.  Not enough Jud or Jeb!

[Bridget]

3 hours ago, cereality said:

Tori was much less obnoxious than usual in this one.  She clearly had her heart set on the first gown – champagne color; lace.  Even when she tried the other 2, she kept saying – well we’ll hold these as backups to the first.  All the other sisters seemed to like the pure white ones better, yet when she kept saying – well the first one . . . . They all backed off and said any choice was great, she’d regret it if she didn’t get the first one, etc.  EXCEPT obnoxious Carlin of course who has to loudly, passively aggressively say “if you take pics in a champagne gown standing next to Bobby in a gray suit, everything will clash, but y’all do what you want . . . .” Uh way to be polite Carlin. Thankfully Alyssa and Whit jumped in with – change the guys’ suits to navy or midnight blue, those go great with champagne, it’s no big deal to change suit colors, and the guys can still wear purple ties with navy suits etc.

How do people not smack Carlin upside the head?? Not to mention during the family picnic, it was very telling that every time the camera panned to the long table where all the older siblings were sitting around esp to catch up with Alyssa and John and Brandon and Michael, who they don’t see often – Evan and Carlin were off on their own sitting on a blanket.  I get it, they’re young and in love but how much time does she need with that douche?? She can’t sit with the family for a bit?! Carlin and Evan are made for each other – both are obnoxious.

I thought it was nice that Alyssa called Michaela to give her the heads up that she’d be announcing a pregnancy.  I thought that was sensitive – though hopefully it was done to be nice, not to rub it in.  I also thought it was sweet in the TH when Zach said that he was hoping the announcement would be Michael’s after all the hardship she’s faced.  And as always I don’t get these fundie declarations of – OMG I’m pregnant again!? Alyssa didn’t seem thrilled to me and said it took her some time to accept that she’d be doing pregnancy again.  Um – sweetie – two young 20 somethings having unprotected sex, what did you think will happen?

Michaela looks frail (per above)?? Didn’t see that at all.  She looked exactly the same to me, maybe a bit quiet at the picnic though why wouldn’t she be – it wasn’t her announcement and she wasn’t going to steal Alyssa’s thunder?

Caught the trailer for the next episode – Chad is starting his own construction company? Damn these people feel ok taking risks – sole breadwinner leaves a job with a guaranteed salary to start a business which may or may not take off in an industry that historically tanks with every recession, despite the fact that he gets his wife pregnant yearly and she has high risk pregnancies and thus they NEED insurance . . . .Though I guess that’s the fundie goal – don’t work for anyone else so you can control who you’re around/excluded yourself from potential non Christian bosses/coworkers etc and you can control your schedule and be home all the time.

 

I think it speaks to Tori's true lack of being able to think (about anything else than Bobby) on the spot and/or her true inability to care about the wedding - she just wants that wedding band so they can be alone together! Her colors were orchid, navy blue & gray. She's not the first bride to have three colors in a wedding. Anyone else would be able to figure out in 4 seconds that switching the guys' suits is so much easier if she was dead set on the champagne dress. It speaks volumes about her priorities, and not in a favorable way. 

Am I the only one who thinks the bridesmaid dresses are hideous? They're matronly and remind me of Michael's dresses (also homely and matronly). I love the color orchid, but those dresses aren't orchid; they look like a shade of muted mauve. Navy dresses with an orchid colored ribbon/sash, shoes or accessories would have been so much prettier!

If I ever did that (as a grown adult!), I'd have it brought to my attention faster by any member of my uber-extended family faster than one can say "get a room!" 

 Zach is in the running for my top 3 favorite kids after that TH - how thoughtful of him! It was nice to see him (or any of them) to be so candid and unguarded.

I suspect Alyssa has been overly OCD about the rhythm method or even snuck birth control pills, hence her shock over baby #3. Something strikes me about her as being someone who wants to do things her way: wearing pants, spacing her kids out further apart and perhaps even planning on  stopping at kid #2. Although if they're not using birth control, baby #3 was an eventuality. As others have stated here, she is probably thrilled to be away from the chaos of Tennessee and is content to be doing things the way she and John prefer to do them.

Although with all of the autumn & outdoorsy shots that keep popping up, I wouldn't say no to visiting Tennessee! (I live in SoCal and truly do not care for the year round 85 degrees - bring on an actual autumn with colors!)

[woodscommaelle]

11 hours ago, cereality said:

Michaela looks frail (per above)?? Didn’t see that at all.  She looked exactly the same to me

Mentally, not physically.

As annoying as Carlin is, I agree 100% that Tori looked absolutely stunning in the first dress dress. Girl just likes to be heard, I guess. Loud and clear!

Edited March 16, 2018 by woodscommaelle

[jumper sage]

On 3/9/2018 at 9:15 AM, flyingdi said:

Two second of this attitude and my mother would've said, "All right my daughter doesn't want to make a decision?  I'm in charge now you will all go through me!"

Why does she have to have a wedding cake?  If she doesn't care then she doesn't care.  My mother stayed out of all decisions of all her kids and just gave a small gift of money to be used any way they wanted.  My brother did the city hall thing and a BBQ and put a down payment on a house.  He is still called the "smart one".

[zenme]

I recall the episode on 19 Kids and Counting where Tori, as a young teen, was very bold in her opinions--quite rude even. I believe they were painting a door or something and Tori just blatantly said that it was so ugly. The family seemed kind of embarrassed of her behavior.  That always stuck with me and clued me into the type of person she is. She was a teen, but still old enough to understand that was rude.  I also got the feeling that Bobby's parents are pleasant with her, but that they're probably no so crazy about her. When we saw the Tori and Bobby proposal episode, I noticed that Tori didn't even acknowledge Bobby's parents. I get that she was shocked to see Bobby and realized it was proposal time, so she was probably focused on that, but they didn't even hug hello. She didn't even SAY hello to them. It was weird.

[sATL]

On 3/9/2018 at 4:58 PM, XrystalPond said:

I was ready to slap Tori. Her aunts are doing her a service and favor that not all brides can afford. I appreciated the episodes with Michaela getting married when the family was very clear that they set aside a certain amount of money for each child for the weddings. If the kids want to spend more, they have to figure that out on their own. Kelly had said that the aunt doing the cake did so as a gift to the bride and groom, which is a nice and expensive gift given how many people get invited to these weddings. 

She could have been polite and asked what were her options or what would her mother and aunt recommend. 

On another note, it's getting a bit old with all these boys only activities like this game of laser tag and last week's boys' lake trip. Do the girls do anything but decorate and wedding plan?

I sure would like to know how big the account for each child is.. Michealla was an "older" bride , Alyssa was in her late teens - that could be a big difference in the account balance.

Is the $$ in an account like a mutual fund - IE something that earned a decent return ? Was it opened at birth - meaning it grew 18+ years? Do the boys get an account?

I personally would take some of this "windfall" and put down on a home.

Edited March 16, 2018 by sATL

[sATL]

On 3/10/2018 at 8:21 AM, floridamom said:

I find it curious that many of these TV fundy brides are desperate for the 'ring', but are completely against planning for this wedding that they were bred to have. I guess being married is not as important as getting married....I think Tori was indeed an ungrateful brat and acted like a little girl who was forced to go shoe shopping with her mother.

I also find it quite sad how the Bates parents held their children back in life. Trace's desire to play on his school's basketball team is a great example. They lived in their own insular world, where they played ONLY pick up games in their own yard OR with exact-minded friends in their back yards. Gil's mother says that Gil wanted his children to love Jesus more than sports...well, Gil had no problem growing up in real school, playing real, organized sports and he grew up to love Jesus, didn't he? What they aren't saying here is the truth about this......the Bates children and also the Duggar children did not participate in any real activities outside of their homes because they lead and led an completely insular life, segregating their children from possibly coming in contact with children/parents who live and believe differently then they do...also, they did NOT have the money required to play real sports.

I wish they would quit lying and/or sugar-coating the truth here. They all seem to do it.

Exactly. what also bugs me about Gil's twisted thinking on this topic is that it implies that those who do play from little league/rec teams all the way up to major leagues, NBA,NFL, Soccer, Olympics, etc  do NOT or cannot love Jesus , or whatever their chosen faith is, IF they chose to have a faith at all.

I wonder how much time has Gil spent talking and listening to  a HS/college/professional player (of any any sport). Actually, would like to see him tell a linebacker/DE what/who can or cannot love/believe in... RIP Reggie White

On the point them not having $$ for sports - I'm kinda in a the middle on the point b/c every now and then you do hear about an althele whose family was worse off financially and/or emotionally, than the Bates yet used that as motivation to rise up/out and at least get to college level. This is the family who had land to pour concrete for a court. Many B-Ball players got their start on the public playground of some neighborhood school or park. Yes, its doubtful the Bates/Duggars could have financed coaches,equipment and venue times to go to the Olympics, but I think they could have afforded the rec/church/HS leagues teams.

Edited March 16, 2018 by sATL

[Sew Sumi]

IIRC, Gil was saved by the influence of his high school FOOTBALL COACH. Ironic, doncha think?

[jennblevins]

4 hours ago, zenme said:

I recall the episode on 19 Kids and Counting where Tori, as a young teen, was very bold in her opinions--quite rude even. I believe they were painting a door or something and Tori just blatantly said that it was so ugly. 

“Yuck colors!”  Why do I remember this nonsense and not something more useful?

[Sew Sumi]

Yeah, I also remember "Yuck colors!" My opinion of Tori hasn't changed much in the ensuing years. She's just a notch lower than Carlin on the annoyance scale.  

[luvmylabs]

I did not like Tori's dress selection, but my opinion is that it is HER day and she should pick what she likes.  I may like it better when I see the alterations she spoke of.  Having been in her position, my heart goes out to Michaela.  You truly want to be happy for your sister but you are dying a little inside with the announcement.  Good for Alyssa for giving her a heads up.  All the family seems very supportive and protective of Michaela. I wish her and Brandon the very best.  I get it!

[cereality]

All the older SIBLINGS seem protective of Michaela - Alyssa with the advance call; Zach saying he hoped the new baby would be Michaelas. Yet Kelly screamed like a LOON for far too long re OMG EIGHT grand babies. We get it - you’re thrilled but screaming like that and going on and on in front of your childless daughter clarifies one more time that producing babies is all that matters. And then when she is finished screaming like a mental patient, it’s time to eat and with M&B standing 2 ft away she HAS TO say - moms first. Uh how about ladies first? That ensures that the moms can get food for babies without singling out the childless ladies.

[sATL]

On 3/17/2018 at 5:30 PM, cereality said:

All the older SIBLINGS seem protective of Michaela - Alyssa with the advance call; Zach saying he hoped the new baby would be Michaelas. Yet Kelly screamed like a LOON for far too long re OMG EIGHT grand babies. We get it - you’re thrilled but screaming like that and going on and on in front of your childless daughter clarifies one more time that producing babies is all that matters. And then when she is finished screaming like a mental patient, it’s time to eat and with M&B standing 2 ft away she HAS TO say - moms first. Uh how about ladies first? That ensures that the moms can get food for babies without singling out the childless ladies.

OMG !  I missed that... that's mean and insensitive.

Knowing Kelly - maybe that was her way of being 1st in the chow line. 

Edited March 18, 2018 by sATL

[lookeyloo]

Well, these are "scripted" reality shows, and we only get a heavily edited snippet of things, so who knows what really goes on in their real life.  I would like cameras all over the house, with unedited streaming.  Haha, dream on.

[Farmfam]

She said "moms first" to get their children plates of food. Then all the children can be seated and eating while adults get their plates. We do it all the time at family functions...as a mom, I appreciate that I don't have to go through the line holding multiple plates and making sure children aren't touching food, etc. 

I saw that as common courtesy. If Michael wanted to fill a plate for Kayci to help out, she could have gone first too.

[TeamNoOne]

On 3/17/2018 at 5:30 PM, cereality said:

All the older SIBLINGS seem protective of Michaela - Alyssa with the advance call; Zach saying he hoped the new baby would be Michaelas. Yet Kelly screamed like a LOON for far too long re OMG EIGHT grand babies. We get it - you’re thrilled but screaming like that and going on and on in front of your childless daughter clarifies one more time that producing babies is all that matters. And then when she is finished screaming like a mental patient, it’s time to eat and with M&B standing 2 ft away she HAS TO say - moms first. Uh how about ladies first? That ensures that the moms can get food for babies without singling out the childless ladies.

I'm just not seeing it that way. Kelly is excited about having grandchild #8, she has every right to be excited about it if she so desires. Kelly doesn't have to mute her joy simply because Michaela is childless after 2 years of marriage. Alyssa and Kelly have a right to be happy even if eeyore Michaela may be disappointed. I think the key here is that Michaela hasn't been married that long. It's not like she and her gay husband have been married for 5-10 years without getting pregnant they've been married 2 years. I'm not unsympathetic to Michael's plight, I understand wanting to get pregnant but not having it happen. However, her problems shouldn't rain on Kelly's joy.

[andromeda331]

On ‎3‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 9:37 AM, XrystalPond said:

Glad to know I wasn't the only one who was annoyed by that. It seems to perpetuate that line of thought that girls should only be concerned with getting married and having babies. I get that is what she did, but it must hurt like heck for her oldest daughter to be faced with the fact that she might not be able to even get pregnant when her mother seems to think and behave as if that is the only sign of success for a woman. I certainly hope that Kelly is more sensitive off camera than on screen. 

While I appreciate that Kelly seems more at ease with her children and seems to know them with a stronger sense of who they are compared to some other larger families, there is just something about her that is grating on me. During the episode about the fire the little boys set, she is at Michaela's house/apartment and telling her that she isn't happy to be there. Yes, there was a major event going on back home and she probably did feel like she needed to be there. But it was rude to say to your daughter and hostess for the trip that you didn't want to be there. Michaela actually said very calmly and sweetly, "Well, I'm glad you're here."

In the early episodes where they were planning the baby shower for Whitney and Zach, she acknowledged that it was probably going to be hard for Erin to handle since she had miscarried a baby due around the same time as Bradley. Yet she assigned Erin to organize the games for the shower with Carlin and relied on her in other areas of the shower planning and prep. Erin seemed to want to do something for her sister in law, but it still seemed a bit cruel to expect her to do so. I had noticed that Zach and Whitney, who often ask for Chad's help on things like Bradley's toddler bed were much more sensitive during that time and only accepted help from Chad and Erin if it was offered. 

I don't want to diagnose over television and the internet, but Kelly just seems a bit stunted with her own social development. She's just way too involved in her daughters' lives for my tastes. While my mother certainly voiced her opinion in many of my life choices, she wasn't as front and center as Kelly seems to be on some things. For example, all the wedding planning for her daughters seems to be with her front and center. Any planning that I or my friends did was done with some opinions of the mothers, but not full on from them. We would narrow things down to two or three choices and then go to our mothers, fathers, etc. to say this is what I like what do you think. It is as though she wants to be her daughters' friend instead of mother. Then again, Kelly is so uninvolved in some important things. A few seasons ago Tori took Carlin and Josie to Crown for a tour to see if they might like to go to school there. Where was Kelly in that important decision? As the children's only teacher and one of the few people they know who graduated from college, she could be of some help in answering questions about being in a classroom, picking a major, etc.  And given that Carlin was talking about majoring in music, Erin would have been a good resource too since it was her alma mater. 

Maybe it is Tori's lack of wanting to plan and make decisions, but Kelly seems more like the bridzilla than the acutal bride. I've been in a few weddings, but I couldn't imagine having that many people trying to make decisions for me about my dress. The two largest weddings where I was a bridesmaid did not go for the decision by committee thing. The bride picked out the dress she wanted and we got to see it the day we were fitted for our dresses. There are always those that ask the pointed questions of, "your wedding is in January, do you really want capped sleeves?" But for the most part we all oohed and ahhed and were more worried about our own dresses. 

Even in moments that would be more natural between sisters or siblings, Kelly seems to insert herself into it. Maybe I'm just annoyed over that whole dramatic, call for the smelling salts moment, of an eighth grandchild, but she really seemed to rub me the wrong way. 

I agree with you. I really don't like Kelly (or Gil) so maybe that's coloring my opinion. But it did annoy me when she screamed and was all excited about 8 grandbabies while her oldest daughter was there whom she knows is having fertility problems. Yes, she was excited. Alyssa was excited too but still manage to call Michaela and talk with her a couple weeks before instead of just announcing to everyone she was pregnant again without a care to her sister.  Zach express hope that it was Michael who was pregnant. We didn't see Kelly express anything towards Michael. If it was me yes I would be excited but also worried about how my daughter who's been struggling to get pregnant was feeling and her reaction.  You really can do both.  

I agree about Carlin. How has no ever slapped or told her to shut up. She would not stop at the bridal store. Its not your wedding Carlin. Stop pointing out problems with the dress your sister clearly loves. I liked all three dresses and think Tori looked beautiful in all three. But it was her choice and what she wanted. I liked the other girls who pointed out the easy ways to change things so the dress wouldn't clash with the guys suits. Try being more like that Carlin instead of raining on everyone's parade. It was nice that Tori wasn't as horrible as she was in engagement episode.  

Edited March 21, 2018 by andromeda331

[Bridget]

I remembered why I am convinced Carlin and Evan are perfect for each other. I really hope they hand out ear plugs at their wedding as favors! (Anyone else wonder who writes the Thank You cards for the gifts that are given by the HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of people who attend the weddings?)

When Gil couldn't figure out what the surprise in the envelope was, Evan made a joke and shouted (very loudly): "We eloped!" It was loud enough that it definitely startled one of the siblings (I'm kicking myself that I deleted the episode now) because they looked like they had no idea he was standing next to them until he shouted/squawked really loud a la Carlin. I did see Michaela and Brandon chuckle because they heard Evan's joke. I i actually thought it was funny myself, especially after all of the high maintenance Tori wedding crap. You'd think she was being asked to give up a limb every time she's been asked to make a decision. She's lucky that she's got two major things already taken care of that most people spend a ton of time deciding on: cake and flowers. (I'm not married yet, so I'm just guessing here about the flowers and cake.)

i haven't watched any of the Bates girls get married on TV, so I don't know if they actually feed their guests at the "reception" with real food or if they simply serve bags of potato chips and pretzels & soda like the weirdos in Arkansas. My point being: if Tori isn't "a cake person", then fine. Choose a dessert that you or Bobby (I know, I know) like, see if your aunt can find a way to modify that to serve to the hundreds of people who are going to attend and be thankful you don't have to go cake tasting or look at tons of photos of floral arrangements!  Can anyone imagine if she had to go cake tasting/florist shopping on top of the other things required to plan a wedding?

I honestly can't tell if she's lazy or just wants to hurry up and get married so she can be alone in a room with Bobby. I honestly don't know how they don't kiss or even make out before the wedding.

When you're with someone and truly connecting, and the chemistry is off the charts and when you look at them, you have to kiss them, THAT is something I know I couldn't put off. It's almost like the body acts before the brain processes everything. Then again, these people are (for the most part) kids telling each other they LOVE ONE ANOTHER (don't get me started on that crap) and who probably don't have any of the aforementioned chemistry or electricity in the air that cannot be put aside for any longer. I don't doubt they're not attracted to each other, but I don't think they're feeling any pure, raw, animal magnetism that most couples have when they're at the marriage stage.

[Absolom]

The weddings are also typically in the early afternoon at a time of day when people aren't expecting a full meal.  The weddings are usually at 1, 2, or possibly 3 with the receptions then being at 2, 3, and maybe 4.  The receptions are expected to be fairly short so don't normally run into meal time. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by Absolom

[andromeda331]

The whole thing is just insane. Tori originally wanted to wait until after she graduated in May. But no, that was crazy talk. Completely insane. Her family couldn't comprehend that. No, that can't happen. Suddenly she's engaged and getting married in December. Then she says she doesn't care about the wedding. So of course she's going to go to the courthouse and get hitched? No, that's crazy talk. Of course she's going to have a big wedding that she doesn't want. Because that makes sense. There's nothing more exciting then a bride not getting the wedding she wanted.              

[woodscommaelle]

Chad looks like he could be Austin Forsyth's (Joy Duggar's husband) brother.

I LOVE Zach and Whitney's new home.

Edited March 23, 2018 by woodscommaelle

[Sew Sumi]

Fundie inbreeding? (kidding!) But SOMEDAY, that might be a thing. There are already pairs of sisters marrying pairs of brothers in droves. In double weddings, no less! 

Edited March 23, 2018 by Sew Sumi

[woodscommaelle]

32 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Fundie inbreeding? (kidding!) But SOMEDAY, that might be a thing. There are already pairs of sisters marrying pairs of brothers in droves. In double weddings, no less! 

Half the episode I literally couldn't remember if I was watching The Duggars or The Bates. The boys, to me, are so interchangeable. The girls not as much. Probably bc I can tell them apart but not really the boys.

[Kbo]

I’m not a fan of the finished flip house. Too many different wood tones that didn’t go together. The vanity in the master bath didn’t go with anything. You could tell it wasn’t professionally designed. And I’m sorry, but why do they keep saying Erin is some great interior designer?  When she worked on Michaelas house it was just chatychkes everywhere.  To each their own, but to design a house so that it’s cohesive takes serious skill.  I haven’t seen any evidence that she has that skill set.

Zach and Whitney’s house looked much better when it was done. Made me nervous when those kids were taking walls out, though. Hope a professional determined they weren’t load-bearing. 

[cereality]

So I take it Zach and Whit have gone fundie lite enough that they believe in mortgages? Bc while they made that house look great with the latest trends - open concept; barn door; white kitchen etc. -- it wasn't bad to start with (just out of style). NOTHING like the falling down shacks Chad was driving around looking at last season bc Chad/Erin have said they want to buy in cash - but what they can afford tends to look like it won't withstand a storm.

So Chad quit his steady job for construction. Great. I mean that's what fundies believe -- don't work for others. But while I get the construction market has been booming bc the economy is hot, what happens with the next recession? He's married with 2 kids, a 3rd on the way and if a recession isn't for another yr or so -- we'll be on kid #4. Don't they need solid health insurance which for a family of 4 would be like $1000/month? As for the flip home -- OMG only in Tenn. Ugly - like a log cabin with ugly wood walls/trim everywhere, except you don't get to go home after a weekend bc you freaking live there. And the contractor was expecting to make 60k after all costs etc. -- listing for 400k -- so he bought that ugly POS in the 300k range!? Hope Chad isn't learning business skills from this dude. I also don't get Erin's role in Chad's business? He's a subcontractor - i.e. doing construction for others' jobs. So he brings his wife (and small kids!?) to properties multiple times to get her decorative opinions? Um - you aren't Chip and Joanna Gaines, and the contractor hasn't hired your WIFE for interior decoration - he's hired YOU to knock out walls/floors etc.

Kind of wondering when/how Zach learned construction. I pray he did learn it somewhere bc it's one thing to mess up flooring or cabinets, it's another to crawl under the house, look at the foundation, and purport to know what you need to do to shore up the foundation.

Looks like these fundies are dreaming of being a family business altogether. At the end Chad goes on about "all the skills coming into the family as it grows" -- Chad doing construction; Zach doing framing (again - where did he learn?); Whit - real estate; Erin - interior décor/staging; and while he didn't mention it -- ahem, Kelton at plumbing. Me thinks Chad wants the siblings in a big family business. I wouldn't be surprised if Zach gives up the cop thing sooner rather than later -- he even said that he'd like to get with Chad's business and help other families with their homes . . . . I'm guessing John is thanking his lucky stars that he and his HVAC skills are all the way in Florida. Though I kind of wonder if all of these siblings getting by paycheck to paycheck look at John and Alyssa and say -- hmm maybe owning your own business in skilled trades is the way to go!?

[Bridget]

2 hours ago, Kbo said:

I’m not a fan of the finished flip house. Too many different wood tones that didn’t go together. The vanity in the master bath didn’t go with anything. You could tell it wasn’t professionally designed. And I’m sorry, but why do they keep saying Erin is some great interior designer?  When she worked on Michaelas house it was just chatychkes everywhere.  To each their own, but to design a house so that it’s cohesive takes serious skill.  I haven’t seen any evidence that she has that skill set.

Zach and Whitney’s house looked much better when it was done. Made me nervous when those kids were taking walls out, though. Hope a professional determined they weren’t load-bearing. 

Haven't seen the episode yet, but I just happened to see Erin's Instagram page one day (I know, I know)). She was ASKING her followers to help guide her to some secret gems (i.e. sites, Pins, photos, resources) to use as she transitioned her home from pink ruffled everything to farmhouse chic.

There wasn't anything about "I love this barn door because it reminds me of ......", and that's OK if she's changed her style as she gets older. I guess I was expecting a wee bit more authenticity because she's from an actual area where there are real farmhouses. That said, I also love a good farmhouse chic home decor, but I live in freakin San Diego, so I'm allowed to be a wannabe (haha), but what's her excuse? She was straight up asking other people to do the work for her "Please send me some links so I can see what I like (and then take credit for envisioning all of this farmhouse chic decor myself)."

[Bridget]

1 hour ago, cereality said:

Looks like these fundies are dreaming of being a family business altogether. At the end Chad goes on about "all the skills coming into the family as it grows" -- Chad doing construction; Zach doing framing (again - where did he learn?); Whit - real estate; Erin - interior décor/staging; and while he didn't mention it -- ahem, Kelton at plumbing. Me thinks Chad wants the siblings in a big family business. I wouldn't be surprised if Zach gives up the cop thing sooner rather than later -- he even said that he'd like to get with Chad's business and help other families with their homes . . . . I'm guessing John is thanking his lucky stars that he and his HVAC skills are all the way in Florida. Though I kind of wonder if all of these siblings getting by paycheck to paycheck look at John and Alyssa and say -- hmm maybe owning your own business in skilled trades is the way to go!?

1. Is Evan going to sing to the people attending the Open House each weekend? Homeboy's gotta learn a trade. Quickly! 

2. I'm not married yet, nor do I have kids. However, I do have student loan debt and other adult financial responsibilities. I've been lucky enough to keep a savings account for most of my life, so I know that I will never be living on the street. I'm also thankful that my parents are able to help me out financially if it ever came down to that.

I know we're products of our environment and we don't know any different than the way we grew up. I totally understand that.

However, I get SO incredibly nervous for these families that DO live paycheck to paycheck - by choice! Holy crap. What if there was an emergency? WHO is going to help them? What if they lose their home or go into mountains of debt because they have a crappy insurance plan (or no insurance!)? It just blows my mind that they think Jesus is going to make a mortgage payment to the bank one month in case they come up short or pay for winter coats for all of their kids. I must've missed that section of the Bible during my days of Sunday School and CCD.

I respect John and Alyssa so much for both busting their butts to have a decent income. With Alyssa working as a cleaner at night, it means time apart from each other, but it also gives John time to spend with the girls and be a hands-on parent. I love that about them. it also means more money going into their pockets and a sense of relief that if something did arise, they'd be able to find a way to pay for it.

[andromeda331]

I really liked Zach and Whitney's house. It looks like they put a lot of money into that house. Kaci was very cute and so was Bradley.  I agree about them acting like Erin is this great interior decorator. She really isn't. She only really likes one style. A good interior decorator knows more then one design and can do more then one design. She doesn't ignore what people actually want. Like the way she ignored what Michael wanted for her house.  

[floridamom]

I'm glad for Whitney and Zach to own their own home. They do seem like nice people. I understand that the closing was a staged and not the real event as they had minimal paperwork on the table, NO representative from the lending institution, OR sellers realtor present, which is usually the case, right?

I have to wonder if they obtained a mortgage or did they somehow pay cash for the house? Does any one know? I also think that Zach needs to make a careful decision to leave his job in law enforcement or not...the guy has benefits, paid vacation, etc. Starting a construction company would not give him and his family those things.

Whitney is a beautiful young woman, IMO, and has a killer figure. She is not at the point that her hair is also becoming too long. She has that stringy, thin looking hair herself. Time to give herself a nice shoulder length blunt cut...this of course, is just my opinion.

I also found Chad to appear quite stressed. In leaving his scrap metal job, he's taking quite a risk with a wife, two children AND another one on the way. Their present home is already too small for 3 children AND COUNTING. I think he's way ahead of Erin in the maturity department, however. Erin has no clue what real life is all about and the real working world is something she only 'hears about' from Chad when he comes home...no frame of reference for her at all. I don't think they guy looks really happy. He seems a bit stuck to me.

[lookeyloo]

I had a similar feeling that something was off with chad. 

[ehall1052]

Several questions have come to mind:

1. The first house Z & W lived in was very dark and dated inside then subsequent seasons it was much more open and bright. Were these 2 different houses or did Z remodel? If it was only a rental, why would they have remodeled?

2. I thought Chad was interested in having a shop to refinish furniture or make furniture. Maybe he shows more talent in that endeavor than flipping.

3. I was shocked that was the “after” of the flipped house. It looked as dark as the “before”. Weren’t they going to paint the ceiling white in between the beams? I didn’t notice any white ceiling.

4.  Z & W’s new home turned out very nice. But I’m like everyone else in questioning Zach’s vast construction knowledge. If he’s so handy, why didn’t he build Bradley’s bed instead of Chad? I thought they got Chad to do it because of all his talent. Seems like Zach could have done it and it would mean more to Bradley that Daddy built his bed.

[sATL]

I liked the transformation of Z&W house. it really looks nice and cozy , but open and modern, for a young couple. The kitchen came out really nice. It's amazing what you can do with some of the older style ranch homes that have every room "boxed" in.

I guess the Sheriff's office pays very well, for someone early in their career,for them to stash away $15k  plus the down-payment on the house.

Does the seller, lender, buyer, and  realtor(s), all have to be in the same room/ table at the same time, anymore? Just seems like some of the closing process shouldn't require everyone there anymore - what if the seller is deceased, live out of the area , or a foreclosure? 

[Absolom]

No, I closed on a house a couple of years ago and there were three of us in the room.  The realtor I had dealt with, a title company person, and me.  In fact they preferred that I have a different time than the buyer and her agent.

[Bridget]

7 hours ago, floridamom said:

I'm glad for Whitney and Zach to own their own home. They do seem like nice people. I understand that the closing was a staged and not the real event as they had minimal paperwork on the table, NO representative from the lending institution, OR sellers realtor present, which is usually the case, right?

I have to wonder if they obtained a mortgage or did they somehow pay cash for the house? Does any one know? I also think that Zach needs to make a careful decision to leave his job in law enforcement or not...the guy has benefits, paid vacation, etc. Starting a construction company would not give him and his family those things.

Whitney is a beautiful young woman, IMO, and has a killer figure. She is not at the point that her hair is also becoming too long. She has that stringy, thin looking hair herself. Time to give herself a nice shoulder length blunt cut...this of course, is just my opinion.

I also found Chad to appear quite stressed. In leaving his scrap metal job, he's taking quite a risk with a wife, two children AND another one on the way. Their present home is already too small for 3 children AND COUNTING. I think he's way ahead of Erin in the maturity department, however. Erin has no clue what real life is all about and the real working world is something she only 'hears about' from Chad when he comes home...no frame of reference for her at all. I don't think they guy looks really happy. He seems a bit stuck to me.

All of this!

I’d like to think Zach doesn’t ditch the law enforcement gig too. It’s way too stable with benefits and has also helped him get (and stay) into shape. He’s looking better (thinner, healthier, more fit) each time we see him. The more the show goes on, the more “modern” he and Whitney seem to be.

Did anyone else catch Whitney mention something about “growing into the house/working on the house for awhile with TWO kids”?  I’m paraphrasing, but the way she said “two kids” made me think they’re good with two kids and that’s the plan. The new house only has three bedrooms and they poured so much time, money and labor into it. Who’d want to do that again in a few years when your family outgrows the house? 

I’d love Whitney cut her hair too! Can you imagine how great she’d look with layered side bangs and either a lob or a shoulder length cut?

 

After I stopped ogling Chad, I saw how worn out/stuck he appears. 

Those upper body muscles! (I couldn’t help it!) The shots of him pulling up the flooring + him in a thin t-shirt = where did those come from? 

I did notice Chad’s face though and he looked flat out exhausted, a lot older looking & worn down in the entire episode.  He’s too young to be that tired at the end of the day, especially with having (almost) three young kids and his newfound career just starting.

I kept pausing the TV (like a detail obsessed weirdo - I admit it!) to see what Erin made for dinner in the opening scene, because I didn’t see any veggies or produce, just a few iceberg lettuce leaves on the side of the dinner plate. WE know nutrition plays a huge role in health, but maybe Chad would have more energy if he ate more produce? (I’ve never spent a significant amount of time in the south, but when I’ve been there, I did find it incredibly hard to eat healthfully. I never found veggies that weren’t smothered in something (home cooked meals) or had the chance to order a salad as a meal (going out to eat). 

When he was working on the flip house,  I kept thinking he must have an incredible metabolism and is probably starving at mealtimes, but he’s still got to eat healthy if he’s going to continue to keep going at a non-stop pace. I wonder if he’s look so tired if he had a less than physically demanding job? I truly hope his health is OK and maybe he looks run down due to his schedule and his diet?

(Seriously though, did anyone else notice his muscles last week?)

Also, does anyone know  what’s up with the ladies and their love of vests? Is it an alternative to a light jacket or chunky sweater during cooler weather? (I live in San Diego, so it’s usually too warm here to wear any type of outerwear) I noticed Kelly Jo almost always has one on and now it’s all I can see on the older girls! 

Edited March 24, 2018 by Bridget

[floridamom]

I think Kelly wears those sleeveless vests to hide her true shape. I understand that after 19 kids, she's not going to have a swimsuit shape, but she is a bit heavy even for that. She has admitted it's hard for her to lose weight, so I think those vests are to hid in a bit.

[cereality]

I've said it here before -- Chad is the oldest 31 year old I've ever seen. Those eye wrinkles -- you see those in the late 40-50s, not typically at 31. And he does always look exhausted. I have to imagine that being the provider, having 2 kids with a 3rd on the way, having various goats/chickens/whatever else, and now starting a business -- all of that has to be taking a toll in terms of stress. And some of it might just be his built as well. He's a thin guy which appears to run in his family; they've shown his brothers before who are positively gaunt. Typically thinner people age worse and show stress on their face more -- though not at 31!?

I get that if/when you want to start a business, at some point you just have to do it. But I question the wisdom of this move, despite his love for construction. Construction is an up and down business -- right now it happens to be up bc the economy is good, so he's getting a lot of work from the one builder friend. What happens when it goes down? I can't imagine they have SOOO much in savings that if business were to fall off for 5 months, they'd be ok; I doubt the scrap metal yard paid him THAT much that there's huge savings lying around. That has to be worrying him at some level. He does seem like he wants to be a good provider, so it's possible that he is taking every job he can right now and working from sun up to sun down 7 days a week to "plan for" a downswing in business. And that builder himself said -- either this flip pays off a ton of debt, or I have even more debt. Construction may be trickier as a business than these 2 realized when he was merely refinishing china cabinets on the side of a real job for some extra cash. Frankly Chad could/should have started this as a side business and grown it to the point where he had so much to do that he couldn't work both construction and the metal yard and THEN quit; it would've worked too as he got weekdays off at the metal yard -- so he could easily be doing construction then, meeting with subcontractors, pitching new jobs etc. - so it's not like his only options were to work in the middle of the night on Sundays.

Though I will say, I don't feel that bad for these fundie guys who want to marry these uneducated, sheltered fundie girls who fawned all over them. I'm sure having a princess of a wife who constantly needs this or that re painted is stressful, along with the finances. I'm sure it's stressful to explain finances or work or the stresses of work to someone who has no clue bc -- oh daddy handled that. In normal couples/households, when one wants to start a business, the other often picks up/hangs onto a job so there is SOME steady income coming in and health insurance. What do these morons do for health insurance - Medicaid? Bc Obamacare could easily be 700-1000/month for a family of 4 in a state like Tenn. And of course these idiots won't slow down their baby making. Dude is starting a business, probably has little to no health insurance yet needs to get the wife pregnant yearly to prove his virility -- cost of hospital care and high risk interventions that Erin needs be damned, God will provide. Erin can't even call Dr. Jilly Muffin and switch to home birthing given her bleeding/clotting issues.

I think Zach and Whit are doing it right, and I honestly hope he doesn't join Chad's business/start his own. If he likes construction, do a bit of it on the side when Chad needs extra help on weekends. They seem to have taken out a mortgage for a normal home -- that could easily contain 4-6 kids (sharing rooms of course). But I wouldn't be shocked if they stop at 2 or 3. I wonder if bc Zach as the oldest remembers how awful it was to grow up poor in a small run down home with a new sibling arriving yearly and doesn't want to live that way again. The way they went all out on granite; wood floors; subway title etc. seems to suggest maybe he's ready for the good life. His job provides that right now and joining the construction business could upset the apple cart. I hope they're considering that police jobs - while they don't have a huge salary though do fine - tend to have a huge pension benefit at the end. Would love to see Zach stay 20 yrs until his mid 40s and then cash out with his pension and pursue any kind of job he wants; but even if that's too much -- even staying 5 yrs or 10 yrs leads you to a far more secure retirement than any fundie has seen. Frankly theirs seems like a more equal marriage where he doesn't need to explain every little thing to Whit like mortgages, pensions, vesting etc. -- so I imagine they've had/will have that conversation when he wants to leave the police force to see if it would be beneficial to them later in life to stay another yr or 2.

[jennblevins]

5 hours ago, Absolom said:

No, I closed on a house a couple of years ago and there were three of us in the room.  The realtor I had dealt with, a title company person, and me.  In fact they preferred that I have a different time than the buyer and her agent.

When I bought my condo, it was just the title company person — no realtor. Tons of paperwork, though. It was one of those “Wow, this isn’t at all what it’s like on TV!” moments. (Much less stressful than my other big moment like that, which was hospital-related.)

There were three people in the room, because my then-boyfriend, now-husband came along, but he wasn’t involved in the purchase and was just observing. 

[Absolom]

I didn't need the realtor, but he offered to be there and I didn't say no.  It was in a small community and they do these little courtesies so I smiled and accepted. 

[luvmylabs]

6 hours ago, Absolom said:

No, I closed on a house a couple of years ago and there were three of us in the room.  The realtor I had dealt with, a title company person, and me.  In fact they preferred that I have a different time than the buyer and her agent.

In some places of the country you can close on a house with only the title company.  They now have electronic signings and such.  Arizona does not require lawyers.