S04.E11: Big Baby

[ElectricBoogaloo]

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Honey is excited to attend a parenting class that encourages moms to listen to their babies taught by self-proclaimed child sage, Wilhelmina Page, but when her mother, Anne, ridicules the idea, it exposes communication issues of their own. When Honey turns to Jessica for support, she is disappointed to find that even her best friend doesn't have her back. Meanwhile, Louis and Marvin are thrilled when they get to go on the free cruise their wives won on "Wheel of Fortune."

[biakbiak]

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When Honey turns to Jessica for support, she is disappointed to find that even her best friend doesn't have her back. 

Shocking. This is one of the most one side friendship on tv.

[Blakeston]

Honey and her mother looked more like sisters to me. I get that they established last season that Honey was only 28, and that IRL Cheryl Hines is old enough to have a daughter in her late 20s. I still found it very distracting.

As for Eddie's storyline, I thought the issue of racial dating preferences/fetishizing was an interesting one for the show to tackle. And I liked that the girl wasn't demonized for having had several Asian boyfriends.

But we're supposed to believe that she never noticed that her boyfriends were Asian? I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous.

[rmontro]

9 hours ago, Blakeston said:

As for Eddie's storyline, I thought the issue of racial dating preferences/fetishizing was an interesting one for the show to tackle. And I liked that the girl wasn't demonized for having had several Asian boyfriends.

If she has a preference for Asian boys, I don't see why that is such a terrible thing anyway.  So she has a physical "type" that she likes.  That doesn't mean she didn't appreciate Eddie for himself.  I don't see how it's any different than having a preference for dark hair or being tall.

[Mellowyellow]

LOVED this week's episode! 

I was a bit wary when I read the episode summary. I am very tolerant to the way they write Jessica with her over exaggerated "quirks" but a few times this season they've gone a bit far and I was worried this episode would be the same. Thank goodness it wasn't!

Loved the way Jessica was written in this episode. She was REALLY battling herself to try and be as supportive of Honey as possible and I was glad they wrote it so that Honey's mum tricked Jessica instead of making Jessica steamroll Honey. Hehe I was surprised Jessica lasted as long as she did in that class without causing a scene. It went against everything she stood for but bless her she really tried!

The ending was perfect and very true to who Jessica is. Agree to paint the wall red while trying to talk Honey out of it. 

OMG the cruise stuff was HILARIOUS!!!!! I have been begging my husband to go cruising for years and he is always reading conspiracy theory articles on cruising and how people fall overboard or get gastro. He had a blast watching this episode!

The show handled Eddie's storyline very well. The show tends to handle sensitive storylines particularly well imo which is interesting since one of their main characters has the tact and sensitivity of a sledgehammer. I say that with love as Jessica is one of my favourite characters on TV!

[joanne3482]

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

If she has a preference for Asian boys, I don't see why that is such a terrible thing anyway.  So she has a physical "type" that she likes.  That doesn't mean she didn't appreciate Eddie for himself.  I don't see how it's any different than having a preference for dark hair or being tall.

My female Asian friend used to say it was a bit problematic when she would date white guys who ONLY dated Asian girls, because usually it wasn't the physical "type" they were looking for in a relationship but the really old school stereotype of Asian women (docile, submissive) they wanted, which she was decidedly not. 

[Blakeston]

Sorry, Honey, but painting a nursery blood red is a horrendous idea.

Not for any mystical reason, but because the color of a room has a huge effect on people's emotions. Blood red walls would make a baby seriously agitated.

[SmithW6079]

14 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Honey and her mother looked more like sisters to me. I get that they established last season that Honey was only 28, and that IRL Cheryl Hines is old enough to have a daughter in her late 20s. I still found it very distracting.

Agreed. Even though Honey's mother was supposed to be the "enemy," I'm glad she double-crossed Jessica after the birthing class. Why is Honey going to those anyway? She's not even showing. 

I thought the cruise storyline was stupid and useless, and that the reason Louis would "get his money back" -- a woman falling overboard -- wasn't funny at all. Also, the "free" trip should cost them anyway, when it comes time to do their taxes. 

I find it interesting that the Huangs are Christians and believe so strongly in the Western concept of the devil (not demons or evil spirits), since it doesn't appear that Grandma is. 

[ClareWalks]

I had a hard time buying that Eddie would be offended by a girl only dating Asian guys, what with him being a girl-crazy teenage boy who probably wants whatever advantage he can get with a cute girl.

[biakbiak]

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we're supposed to believe that she never noticed that her boyfriends were Asian? I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous.

I dont think it's that she never put it in the terms that Eddie did because presumably she dated them for other reasons.

I also find it hard to believe that this Eddie would care what reason she was into him. 

[Robert Lynch]

Can I say I love that weirdo kid Brian. He is the best out of all Eddie's friends. Just his deadpan delivery and awkwardness makes him best out of the best. 

The cruise thing hit too close to home. I remember in college I asked my mom if we could go on a cruise and she'll lay the ground work you could get sea sickness or some other horrible disease when I am on a cruise. That sort of thing. It wasn't until 2012 that we went on a cruise. It wasn't bad being that we were on the Caribbean, but I agree that sometimes mothers are superstitious that way. Ask my Spanish mother and you'll see.

[Silverglitter]

I tend to enjoy Eddie's friends in general. Well, the black kid doesn't get a lot to do. He's underused/underdeveloped. I can't even remember his name.

I think Dave is my fave, but Trent gets some great moments.

[theatremouse]

22 hours ago, Blakeston said:

But we're supposed to believe that she never noticed that her boyfriends were Asian? I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous.

I don't think we're supposed to believe she never noticed that her boyfriends were Asian. I think we're supposed to believe she never thought about it in such a way to realize they were all Asian. She knew each of them was, but didn't think about it enough to think of it as a pattern. That's what I thought they were saying.

[smash]

14 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

 

I was a bit wary when I read the episode summary. I am very tolerant to the way they write Jessica with her over exaggerated "quirks" but a few times this season they've gone a bit far and I was worried this episode would be the same. Thank goodness it wasn't!

Loved the way Jessica was written in this episode. She was REALLY battling herself to try and be as supportive of Honey as possible and I was glad they wrote it so that Honey's mum tricked Jessica instead of making Jessica steamroll Honey. Hehe I was surprised Jessica lasted as long as she did in that class without causing a scene. It went against everything she stood for but bless her she really tried!

 

"Yes, that class seems like.....a great use of tiiime." Jessica's delivery is on point.

 

11 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Sorry, Honey, but painting a nursery blood red is a horrendous idea.

Not for any mystical reason, but because the color of a room has a huge effect on people's emotions. Blood red walls would make a baby seriously agitated.

Also, it's a bad idea because it'll summon the Shadow King.

Edited January 4, 2018 by smash

[Sile]

I didn't understand the whole "red stands for Satan" thing.  Isn't red the color of good luck and fortune and white is for death?

I had just watched the old movie Bridge to the Sun on AMC on Tuesday afternoon, so the girl being attracted to Asians storyline really hit me in the feels.  

Edited January 4, 2018 by Sile

[tennisgurl]

I like the color red, but a whole room filled with it? For a baby? Sounds like a method to make give your kid rage issues by the time they hit preschool. 

It was nice seeing Jessica try to do be good friend (in her own way) and they didn't go overboard with Jessica this week, as opposed to other times. She was her abrasive self, but still likable, and was still clearly trying to help. 

I thought the Eddie plot was interesting, and I liked the way it played out. The girl probably goes have a Type, but clearly isn't into guys just because they're Asian. I think there is a difference between having a Type (have a type of person who you are naturally attracted to, but date for their personality) and a Fetish (liking someone only for their looks, usually having to do with race or being with someone "exotic") and I think thats a big difference. 

[rmontro]

20 hours ago, joanne3482 said:

My female Asian friend used to say it was a bit problematic when she would date white guys who ONLY dated Asian girls, because usually it wasn't the physical "type" they were looking for in a relationship but the really old school stereotype of Asian women (docile, submissive) they wanted, which she was decidedly not. 

That may be the case, but since Eddie is a boy, that doesn't really apply here.

Besides, I agree with the posters who say most likely Eddie (as a teenage boy) would be thrilled to have the female attention, no matter what the reason.  It's possible Eddie pursued this without knowing it would cost him the girl though.

[readster]

2 hours ago, rmontro said:

That may be the case, but since Eddie is a boy, that doesn't really apply here.

Besides, I agree with the posters who say most likely Eddie (as a teenage boy) would be thrilled to have the female attention, no matter what the reason.  It's possible Eddie pursued this without knowing it would cost him the girl though.

I agree, even when the pointed out he dated "white girls" and he called it different. That could have been followed up with: "There aren't a lot of asian girls at our school." 

[Blakeston]

13 hours ago, theatremouse said:

I don't think we're supposed to believe she never noticed that her boyfriends were Asian. I think we're supposed to believe she never thought about it in such a way to realize they were all Asian. She knew each of them was, but didn't think about it enough to think of it as a pattern. That's what I thought they were saying.

And that's what I don't buy. I don't buy that a white teenage American girl (especially in the 90s) would date Asian guy after Asian guy after Asian guy without realizing that she'd established a pattern.

If she'd said, "Yeah, they all happened to be Asian, so what?" I would have found that a much more believable response.

[possibilities]

4 hours ago, readster said:

I agree, even when the pointed out he dated "white girls" and he called it different. That could have been followed up with: "There aren't a lot of asian girls at our school." 

He did say that. He said he dated white girls because that's what's there, and that it was different than seeking them out BECAUSE they are white and ONLY dating white girls as a policy.

[CurlyATX]

On 1/3/2018 at 7:51 AM, rmontro said:

On 1/2/2018 at 9:56 PM, Blakeston said:

As for Eddie's storyline, I thought the issue of racial dating preferences/fetishizing was an interesting one for the show to tackle. And I liked that the girl wasn't demonized for having had several Asian boyfriends.

 

If she has a preference for Asian boys, I don't see why that is such a terrible thing anyway.  So she has a physical "type" that she likes.  That doesn't mean she didn't appreciate Eddie for himself.  I don't see how it's any different than having a preference for dark hair or being tall.

This is an interesting one.  I had a few friends who tended to date boys of a certain race.  In particular, there was this one really cute girl who was Chinese who always dated white guys.  She would say that those were the only guys who asked her out, even though we grew up in a very Asian city. I knew tons of her "guy friends" who were Asian who all secretly were in love with her.  One time, this gal liked a guy and through the grapevine found that he preferred blondes and he was declared a racist.  

I guess my question is, how do you determine the difference between a "physical type" (tall, blue eyes, dark hair, etc) vs a racial preference or fetish? 

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, CurlyATX said:

I guess my question is, how do you determine the difference between a "physical type" (tall, blue eyes, dark hair, etc) vs a racial preference or fetish? 

I guess my question is, even if she does have a racial preference, is that necessarily such a bad thing?  Who is being harmed?

[CurlyATX]

I'm not sure.  Usually relationships start from an initial attraction and then that builds, right? I guess then you have to wonder who you are missing out on because of initial physical attraction. 

I do think Eddie is bringing up this other interesting point of being the "other" as a teen... you may not be seen as attractive by the main population.   I mean, would Dave have wondered why this girl was into him at first?  Though Eddie had dated Allison, he's still probably viewing himself as not as "traditionally handsome" as a white guy. 

I'm Asian and always had this assumption that most guys  preferred blondes or their own race.  So, for me to date someone who wasn't my ethnicity,  it would always have to based more on his attraction to my personality/smarts since he wouldn't be attracted to me physically (initially).  Imagine my surprise when I went to college to realize that not everyone subscribes to ONE standard of beauty.   

[rmontro]

15 hours ago, CurlyATX said:

I'm Asian and always had this assumption that most guys  preferred blondes or their own race.  So, for me to date someone who wasn't my ethnicity,  it would always have to based more on his attraction to my personality/smarts since he wouldn't be attracted to me physically (initially). 

I'm caucasian, and I find women of all races beautiful.  I think you're selling yourself short if you don't think someone from another race might find you beautiful.  By the way, statistically, more men prefer brunettes.

Edited January 6, 2018 by rmontro

[CurlyATX]

Aww...shucks! And yes, I delightfully found this out in college.  

But, I do think there is this internalized thing that many folks of another culture have that their features aren't considered beautiful because well, you don't see any of us in areas where mainstream (white) population would see us as pretty/sexy/cool.  I didn't grow up with too many Indian women who were in US shows.  Now you have Asians who are more than just the nerdy friends- I love it when they just cast a person of color to be the REGULAR friend (or my favorite- The Good Place has two Indian ladies). I would have LOVED to have seen that growing up.  

[galax-arena]

As an Asian woman, I've been on the receiving end of attention from both men & women with yellow fever before, and I hate it. It's dehumanizing because it's like they didn't see me as a person in my own right, but just like the fact that I'm Asian. This one guy in college proceeded to simultaneously hit on my roommate, friend, and me (yes, we're all Asian and no, we look nothing alike) while waxing on about how exotic~ our looks were. And then more recently there was this woman who liked me, but she was also downright obsessed with Korean culture. And she seemed to develop a full-blown crush right after she found out I'm Korean. (We only knew each other online.) Her last gf was Korean, too.... which, like, the lesbian dating pool is super small, so it felt like she was seeking us out or something lmao. 

[CurlyATX]

I've not had this on the romantic front, but I do find that when folks realize I'm Indian (vs some type of multi-racial), I'm immediately exotic, wise, and really mystical.  I remember being told I had an "old soul" (insert eye roll).  Yes, I'm Indian, but I don't do yoga (I'm so inflexible), am a lapsed Catholic, and don't do any cool kama sutra moves.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

10 hours ago, CurlyATX said:

I've not had this on the romantic front, but I do find that when folks realize I'm Indian (vs some type of multi-racial), I'm immediately exotic, wise, and really mystical.  I remember being told I had an "old soul" (insert eye roll).  Yes, I'm Indian, but I don't do yoga (I'm so inflexible), am a lapsed Catholic, and don't do any cool kama sutra moves.  

Ha, this reminds me of that Seinfeld episode with them assuming that Donna Chang was giving all this amazing advice because she was Chinese.

[rmontro]

On 1/9/2018 at 4:13 PM, CurlyATX said:

I've not had this on the romantic front, but I do find that when folks realize I'm Indian (vs some type of multi-racial), I'm immediately exotic, wise, and really mystical.  I remember being told I had an "old soul" (insert eye roll).  Yes, I'm Indian, but I don't do yoga (I'm so inflexible), am a lapsed Catholic, and don't do any cool kama sutra moves.  

I'm sorry you felt stereotyped.  I find India fascinating.  I love to do yoga, even though like you, I'm not very flexible.  But what I really find interesting about India is their spiritual history and influence in that area.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 1/3/2018 at 5:57 PM, Silverglitter said:

I tend to enjoy Eddie's friends in general. Well, the black kid doesn't get a lot to do. He's underused/underdeveloped. I can't even remember his name.

Walter.

[Ottis]

On 1/3/2018 at 11:49 PM, tennisgurl said:

Sounds like a method to make give your kid rage issues by the time they hit preschool. 

I have a friend who painted their kids' nursery red. The younger one has rage issues at 11.

[Camera One]

I didn't enjoy the cruise storyline at all, but the rest of the episode was pretty good.  It was nice seeing Jessica try to be a supportive friend (and that class was wacko) and Eddie's predicament was not as cookie cutter as usual.