Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[KirkB]

That's interesting. I've heard the name mentioned but knew nothing about the character. They're right, she would have fit perfect on Arrow. Even when Oliver got out of the casually killing bad guys game she would have made a good ally/antagonist for him, like Helena but with less crazy.

[kismet]

I don't know much about Kate Spencer/Manhunter (other than what's been posted in this forum, usually in connection with previous Laurel speculation), so I found this article interesting...

How the CW Dropped the Ball with Kate Spencer

Mweyer 5/08/15 4:12pm

http://observationdeck.io9.com/how-the-cw-dropped-the-ball-with-kate-spencer-1703190853

It seems like it would have been a better fit for LL. Maybe they should have made Sara's first name Dinah as well & then they could have had black canary & manhunter. Especially if they were considering moving away from the canon romance. In some cultures almost everyone shares the same first name & goes by their middle name, so it could have worked. Lance family tradition to share a name. Heck I think kc/ll would have looked better in red than in those buckles.

[Starfish35]

Laurel as Manhunter would have made a lot more sense to me. *shrug*. But what do I know.

There's a part of me that still wonders, based on nothing at all really, if that's what they were going for, and got told no by DC. But that's probably just me still reaching to try to make sense of what happened in season two.

[Delphi]

I doubt dc said no, I love Kate but she is not a heavy hitter in dc's lore. There is no way that they'd let them use the Blackhawks like that and then Declare Manhunter off limits.

[tv echo]

5 Ways DC and The CW Built a TV Superhero Empire
Nick Cannata-Bowman May 12, 2015
http://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/5-ways-dc-and-the-cw-built-a-tv-superhero-empire.html/?a=viewall

[statsgirl]

I doubt dc said no, I love Kate but she is not a heavy hitter in dc's lore. There is no way that they'd let them use the Blackhawks like that and then Declare Manhunter off limits.

I agree.  It seems more that the EPs wanted their Black Canary, no matter how problematic she became.

[apinknightmare]

This is the second mention of Lyla on The Flash - I really think she's gonna be the floater (yay).

[quarks]

Although I have a question about that - didn't she quit ARGUS?  I get why she had access to Lian Yu, but is she also still at ARGUS?  I'm guessing yes because she also organized the plane - unless that was one of Ray's, who created the nanobytes.

 

(Although that bit? SO MANY QUESTIONS.  Does Ray know that Oliver took his nanobytes to Nanda Parbat? If not, did Oliver go back to Starling and talk to Ray about how to slow the Reverse Flash but not the rest of the team?)

[apinknightmare]

She did quit ARGUS, and it hasn't been mentioned again. Isn't this her third usage of ARGUS resources since she quit? WTF

 

Don't try to make sense of it, there's no sense to be made, haha.

[bethy]

I'm guessing we're dealing with a timeline glitch again because the Flash episodes are out of order. Since Oliver is apparently Oliver here instead of El-Sahim (spe?) like it was last week on Arrow.

[formerlyfreedom]

Folks, please take continued discussion of tonight's The Flash episode over to that forum.

[Morena]

So how did Oliver knew that Barry was in trouble?

[nksarmi]

Although I have a question about that - didn't she quit ARGUS?  I get why she had access to Lian Yu, but is she also still at ARGUS?  I'm guessing yes because she also organized the plane - unless that was one of Ray's, who created the nanobytes.

 

(Although that bit? SO MANY QUESTIONS.  Does Ray know that Oliver took his nanobytes to Nanda Parbat? If not, did Oliver go back to Starling and talk to Ray about how to slow the Reverse Flash but not the rest of the team?)

I know - WTH?  I was thinking this only works with the "I might need a favor" if it happened before last week's Arrow - but nanobites courtesy of Palmer?  Did Oliver just "borrow" them or is Ray in on the conspiracy lol?

[apinknightmare]

Felicity might've made those arrows for him a while ago - maybe he picked them up while he was in Starling? 

[catahoulamama]

I know - WTH?  I was thinking this only works with the "I might need a favor" if it happened before last week's Arrow - but nanobites courtesy of Palmer?  Did Oliver just "borrow" them or is Ray in on the conspiracy lol?

My wrist is already cramping from all the handwaving of the timeline and story details and we haven't even gotten to the finales yet! LOL

[Password]

Am I the only one who teares up at Westhawne ending? OK.

Oliver is trying something different. Let's all sigh together. Barry learned this "don't work with villains" lesson rather quickly. It almost felt like The Flash throwing shade at Arrow.

[nksarmi]

Am I the only one who teares up at Westhawne ending? OK.

Oliver is trying something different. Let's all sigh together. Barry learned this "don't work with villains" lesson rather quickly. It almost felt like The Flash throwing shade at Arrow.

I rather liked the "you're not that kind of hero" speech because Flash is so NOT like Arrow.  Heck, he really isn't that much like Green Arrow either, but he definitely has more in common with GA than the version of Oliver Queen we have been given.  But anyway, is it odd that the biggest thing I took away from this episode of Flash is that Oliver lives to be 86!?!?!?!  Sorry, I love Flash, but that should be huge for Oliver.

Felicity might've made those arrows for him a while ago - maybe he picked them up while he was in Starling? 

But they were specifically targeting the Reverse Flash - is that something Felicity would have built?  I'd buy that Cisco asked Ray to build it at some point, but that still means somehow Oliver knew about them and picked them up on his way to CC.

[Delphi]

It should definitely lighten him up. But then again, if someone like Barry was told that, or Ray, they'd be all reckless and get themselves killed at thirty two. Somehow I don't think that knowledge will phase him.

[apinknightmare]

But they were specifically targeting the Reverse Flash - is that something Felicity would have built?  I'd buy that Cisco asked Ray to build it at some point, but that still means somehow Oliver knew about them and picked them up on his way to CC.

 

I missed that he said they were built specifically for Reverse Flash. So...IDK

[statsgirl]

I'm guessing we're dealing with a timeline glitch again because the Flash episodes are out of order. Since Oliver is apparently Oliver here instead of El-Sahim (spe?) like it was last week on Arrow.

It seems like once again the crossover takes place in the middle of an Arrow episode,   The cross-over with Felicity and Ray seemed to take place late in Suicidal Tendencies, this episode of The Flash seems to take place in the middle of This Is Your Sword, after Ra's tried to brainwash Oliver into Al Sah Him and gifted him with the new outfit, and before Team Arrow arrived at Nanda Parbat to be gassed.

[AyChihuahua]

I have so many questions, though.  How did Barry contact him?  When did Barry contact him?  How did he get to CC?  How did he sneak away from Ra's/his minders?  How did he know about the nanite arrow?  How did he get the arrow?  How did he know he'd "need a favor"?  Did he know then he'd gas them, or was it just a potential unknown future favor?

[thuganomics85]

Agents of Shield finale: 

great finale, but I will riot if Simmons is dead. Hopefully, whatever got her will just infect her with something. Also, I loved that any attempts at redeeming Ward seem to be shatter since he's seems to be reforming Hydra.

[statsgirl]

On the Flash, Oliver shot Wells with nanites that he had got from Ray Palmer to take away his abilities so he could be defeated.

 

It just occurred to me that this makes the whole "Oliver didn't tell Diggle and Felicity" even worse.   He had time to go to see Palmer and get the nanites, but he couldn't drop in to tell Diggle and Felicity his plans?

[apinknightmare]

I don't think Oliver went to see Ray. Ray seemed as surprised as everyone else did that Oliver locked them in that vault. Surely he would've mentioned to someone that Oliver was faking? Maybe the nanite arrows were something Felicity worked up after she and Ray got back from CC? It's probably pointless trying to figure out that sequence of events.

And I don't think Oliver didn't tell Diggle and Felicity about his plans because he didn't have the time, so I don't think this makes it any worse than it already was, if you already thought it was terrible.

[Delphi]

I think that Felicity had probably developed the nanite arrows herself as a possible weapon against Barry in case something like the croSsover happens again. Oliver needs a way to stop metahumans that would usually overpower him.
 

[quarks]

Thinking it over, I'm honestly not sure Oliver did talk to Ray after he headed to Nanda Parbat with Thea and Team Arrow and joined the LoA. I think either they didn't have a conversation, or that conversation may have been earlier.  

 

1. If he did talk to Ray in Starling City in episode 21 ("Al Sah-him"), it seems odd that he didn't mention it to Felicity in episode 22, when Oliver came up. The same, really, for episode 22 - the only real chance Oliver would have had to get nanobytes from Ray would have been before everyone headed over to Nanda Parbat - either with Ray carrying them to Nanda Parbat in the suit, or before anyone left.  And if he talked to Ray in episode 22, I think Ray would have said something in the dungeon.

 

2. There's a moment in episode 19 - "Public Enemy" - where Felicity brings up Team Flash and Harrison Wells and mentions they have problems with him, which could have been enough to have Oliver head over to talk to Ray prior to heading back to the apartment to find Thea.

 

3. It's very probable that Oliver, Felicity and Ray discussed the need to have something to combat metahumans at some point between the end of episode 17 (Suicidal Tendencies) through the beginning of episode 20. ("The Fallen.") It's clear that people in Starling City are aware of the Flash, and by episode 19, Ray learned that the metahumans were appearing outside Central City.  Oliver and Felicity had already witnessed how easily Barry could be turned evil. And Barry or Caitlin or Cisco could have told them about Reverse Flash. I would not be at all surprised to learn that they asked - or at least Felicity asked - for something that could help slow superspeedsters.

 

4. Or Oliver just took them from Ray without asking since he doesn't like Ray.

 

I have other questions about the Arrow/Flash timeline, but I think this one can be at least handwaved, and might even work.

[statsgirl]

 

4. Or Oliver just took them from Ray without asking since he doesn't like Ray.

I can see the other three but not this one.  How is Oliver going to be able to program the nanobytes to counteract the Reverse Flash's abilities?  It would take someone with the skills of Felicity or Ray to do it.  Barry being able to program a virus that scrubbed Snort from data bases was difficult enough to accept, I can't see Oliver stealing nanotechnology from Ray and being able to use it on Wells.

[wingster55]

Unless Wells got beaten on purpose...kinda bad that Oliver got the last hit on Barry's show imo. It's his fight. 

[tennisgurl]

I really love the fact that AoS had had so many opportunities to white wash all the horrible things that Ward has done...and they never do. Even when the good guys are forced to work with him to save people (kind of like the Malcolm thing) they all clearly hate him, and are itching to throw his ass back in jail ASAP. They would have if he didn't manage to get getting away. No one, on the show or behind the scenes, has forgotten what he did. He can still have sympathetic moments, but he is a BAD GUY. Its awesome. 

[quarks]

I just watched the Flash episode, the bizarre timing aside, (it really doesn't make sense to me, but maybe Oliver's post dinner walk in 3.22 was longer than shown) how did Oliver know Barry was looking for his help? Lyla was the one Barry spoke with, not Oliver. Are Lyla and Oliver in secret communication? I've said it before I wouldn't mind if Oliver turned out to be working for ARGUS. It would be interesting if Lyla and Oliver were in cahoots. Would make the supposed Diggle/Oliver rift better for me.

Speaking of Lyla....What is the notice period for ARGUS? 4 weeks? 6? is it a "Blood in, blood out" situation? Because I thought Lyla had resigned.

 

 

Lyla: Well, now that you've tied me up and left my baby in a crib without a babysitter, have you heard the latest? Barry needs help.  I'd send in ARGUS, but a) we both know that they'd just bomb Central City, and b) I'm not entirely sure I work there anymore.

 

Oliver: DAMN IT EVERYBODY I AM TRYING TO INFILTRATE HERE. Barry! Stop trusting people who build particle accelerators and put people into secret prisons without due process, even if I do that too. Well, the second part. And stop trusting people who call themselves Captain Cold and continue to run around robbing people even though their sisters can turn anything into gold.

 

Lyla: It will look awesome, though. Plus, we gotta sell this spinoff.

 

Oliver: Well, if I can be grumpy AND find out about my future, I'll do it.

 

Firestorm: FLAME ON!  

 

Marvel: Ahem, Distinguished Competition, ahem.

[Velocity23]

 

They really going with a Felicity Smoak type.

[dtissagirl]

Upfronts really is my favorite time of the year: https://twitter.com/JarettSays/statuses/598482463267106816

[Carrie Ann]

I honestly wonder whether MG bothered to tell AK that they were going to make Lyla quit ARGUS in 317. These eps would have filmed before that aired, right? But yeah, mentions of her two episodes in a row do make me think she's the floater, so yay!

[bethy]

On the timing, I assumed that this would have happened after tonight's Arrow. So on Arrow, Oliver's out of the LoA, but maybe still in his duds, hears that Barry's in trouble, straps on his quiver, grabs his bow and heads out. That makes more sense to me than it happening during last week's Arrow or even just after last week's episode. 

[apinknightmare]

Except Oliver told Barry he was going to have to ask him for a favor soon, which he's obviously going to call in tonight (how, exactly, I don't know). So it happened sometime within the past couple of episodes.

[bethy]

True. Unless maybe the Flash happened during tonight's Arrow episode? 

[apinknightmare]

True. Unless maybe the Flash happened during tonight's Arrow episode? 

 

MG said yesterday that it was before, so unless they clarify, it's probably in some general before that will never be pinpointed to a specific time. 

[bethy]

Alright. I don't know why I've invested so much time trying to figure it out. :)

[Danny Franks]

 

They really going with a Felicity Smoak type.

 

That's really not a flattering comparison for the Supergirl actress. They'd be better off not asking people to compare her to Felicity, if you ask me.

[FurryFury]

I sure wouldn't mind if we got a Felicity Smoak but without Oliver Queen. (Not an Olicity shipper - always thought she deserves much better than him)

[Velocity23]

 

Supergirl images.

First look of CBS shows including Supergirl

[FurryFury]

Haha I'm already expecting the Jimmy Olsen vs the other guy (what's his name) shipping wars in the fandom.

 

The trailer wasn't consistently good, but dammit it if I didn't have the "You go girl!" feels in the actions sequences.

 

Also, is SO REFRESHING that all important characters know Kara's secret. I'm just sick of this lying stuff.

[Chaser]

That actually looks like a lot of fun. 

 

Not how I pictured Jimmy …I'm sorry JAMES. But I am not complaining at all. 

 

I'm happy to see Lexie on my screen.

 

The first part was so Felicity. Style and babbling. If Emily wasn't on Arrow..

[Soulfire]

Just watched the Supergirl trailer. Is it only me or did it cross anyone else's mind that it seems they're modelling Kara after a younger version of Felicity, at least a little?

 

I don't only mean looks-wise, though that is kind of fitting too --

 

 

The trailer looks promising, though. 

[wingster55]

The first part was so Felicity. Style and babbling.

 

I hope she stands out on her own soon..I mean Felicity isn't the first babbling character obviously..but that shirt. Too similar

Then again it seems she doesn't accidentally drop sexual innuendos often. 

[quarks]

That looks like fun.

 

And if crossovers do get approved, we now have our official confirmation that Superman exists in the Arrowflashverse.

[dtissagirl]

Not gonna lie, the twelve year old girl in me is gonna enjoy THE HELL out of Supergirl.

[statsgirl]

Even though Arrow can't launch Supergirl the way it did The Flash and Legends, it seems like Felicity Smoak ended up launching the character after all.  At least Berlanti has learned that it's better for people close to her to know her secret.

 

From the trailer, I think I'm going to enjoy it.  Do we know how the EPs are going to split their time?

[FurryFury]

Superman existing in Flarrowverse makes zero sense for me, personally. He just doesn't fit. Otherwise Cisco would have been mentioning him all the time.

Edited May 13, 2015 by FurryFury

[Chaser]

I may or may not have cheered at a few moments in the trailer. The speech about "What's wrong with girl?." I was like Thank You Thank You Thank You.

 

My only complaint with the trailer was the pop song they put over the montage. I little too much. Other than that, I'm good.

 

And Yes to the whole no secrets thing.

 

Her co-worker is how I always pictured Jimmy, so thats interesting.

 

If crossovers are a thing, I need separated at birth comments about Felicity and Supergirl. It would be hard to fit Arrow in tho. Maybe after the show lightens up a bit.