Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[wonderwall]

To me the problem with Iris becoming team leader is that months have gone by since she likely became one. So we never got to see her learning the ropes, struggling at being team leader. Instead we'll likely get an already proficient team leader with great tactical/technical skills in Iris which is quite jarring. This is why most of the audience will feel like her being team leader came out of nowhere and feel like she's unqualified when she has already had months of experience.

As a comparison - to the audience it'll feel like Thea magically being able to run Verdant at the age of 19 instead of seeing someone like Felicity help Oliver as CEO in s2 (which she likely did most of his work anyways so she got experience from that), becoming VP and learning the ropes as Ray as a likely mentor in s3, and then becoming CEO in s4

[ComicFan777]

I am hesitant to say that learning the ropes for a few months would be adequate to become team leader.  Besides planning and strategizing and utilizing intel, it also involves making the right call in life/death situations.  I don't think what Sara, Lyla, Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity have learned to become leaders running mission ops are something that they picked up in a matter of months, but rather years of experience in high stress situations.

Edited July 29, 2017 by ComicFan777

[wonderwall]

12 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

I am hesitant to say that learning the ropes for a few months would be adequate to become team leader.  Besides planning and strategizing and utilizing intel, it also involves making the right call in life/death situations.  I don't think what Sara, Lyla, Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity have learned to become leaders running mission ops are something that they picked up in a matter of months, but rather years of experience in high stress situations.

OH I agree completely... Watching her learn the ropes is honestly the least the show could've done. 

Felicity had 2 years of being on the team before she stepped up after Oliver's death to become the defacto leader. 2 years of going through intense situations everyday, trying to catch bad guys etc. 

So the least, the very least the Flash could do is show Iris learning the ropes, fumbling, making iffy calls and learning from them. And they could still do this in episode 1 and show that shes still learning... But I have doubts that they will. 

[Proteus]

3 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

A quote from Candice in this story was interesting — " ... When we pick up season 4, Iris takes the mantle of Team Flash; she’s the leader, the boss, the overwatch for Team Flash while Barry is gone, which is a cool new role for her to play.”

Not having watched The Flash for a couple of seasons now, is Iris qualified to be leader of Team Flash? She also uses the word overwatch, which wasn't a word I was used to seeing until Arrow and Felicity, so I kinda associate that with her. 

Iris has no place at Star Labs. Never did. Never will. But since they refuse to write for Iris as a reporter, they have to keep forcing her into Star Labs.

[RedVitC]

Iris is part of the team and since the team discussions happen mostly at Star Labs she has every right to be there. People can doubt her contributions if they want, that's not for me to decide for them, but she has saved the day more than once and her being there at the console has saved the day multiple times. People like to downplay her speeches (but only when she's the one giving them) but those speeches have saved the day more than once, they're still important. There is nothing wrong with not being a scientist or a fighter and using the pure power of words to have an impact. So yes, she absolutely has her place there. As does everyone who is part of team Flash. HR, etc, etc. 

Would I like to see her more at CCPN, sure, absolutely. I'd love to see them make her a TV reporter, which maybe could be more easily be interwoven in he action and storyline. I'd love to see them moving away from Star Labs a bit and involving Central City more and going back to stories at the police station like they used to have. But the truth is for some reason the show has cut down on showing all characters outside of Star Labs. Ironically, Iris is one of the few characters who has an actual life outside of Star Labs( home life, job etc) The only ones we know stuff about outside Star Labs are the Wests and Barry and that's mostly their home life. We barely see either Joe or Barry at CCPD or working at their job anymore. After Julian joined Team Flash I don't think we saw him at his job much either. We don't really know much about Cisco and Caitlin outside of Star Labs, is Barry their official employer now or do they have another job outside of Star Labs to pay the bills?

Ok, sort of rant over, sorry! :)

As for being qualified, I don't think this is a case of who is most qualified, but of necessity and who, in their grief, is willing or able to step in. The team lost three team members, one of them being their leader Barry. There are only four of them left (if Harry is not there). So more then ever Iris has a place in the team and Star Labs if they want to keep things going. Neither Wally and Cisco ever went into the field alone much, so them teaming up makes sense. Even in that sad future, the team was pretty lost without Barry (which granted probably had more to do with what Savitar did and what Killerfrost did to Cisco's hands than necessarily Barry being gone). Iris is highly motivated because of the promise she made, plus she's trying to not think about her grief and pain so she's channeling everything she has in this. I think Cisco was the obvious choice for team leader, but it's possible he's distracted because he's also working on the secret project and I think Iris tends to have a cool head even during tough situations so I have no problem with the idea of her channeling everything in keeping the mission going. And we've seen in missions before that even if she didn't know the specific science, she was the one who was like, Ok, here's what we're going to do, you do this, while we do this etc. So there's enough precedent for her being able to oversee the situation clearly enough to make decisions without being bogged down by details.

 

A completely different topic: I saw somewhere that Melissa Benoist said the crossovers would have 2 big events that people would lose their minds over (don't know the specific words she used), but I can't seem to find the source or the real quote. Anyone heard of this and knows where it's from? (I apologize if this has been discussed already, I only checked the last page).

Edited July 29, 2017 by RedVitC

[Delphi]

Not to say your point isn't valid,  but honestly I could see Thea running Verdant in season two at her young age.   As she wss only a few years younger than me when I got placed in management of the service place that I worked.   The service/bar/ restaurant scene most definitely works different than most jobs because more often than not the up and comer/ vision haver  ends up running the show, it's not always about experience. 

[BkWurm1]

7 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I don't like the suit

 

7 hours ago, tv echo said:

 

 

I don't hate the style, but the fit looks terrible.  (Though the lightning bolt that draws attention to his junk and runs up his arms is an odd choice.)

2 hours ago, wonderwall said:

To me the problem with Iris becoming team leader is that months have gone by since she likely became one. So we never got to see her learning the ropes, struggling at being team leader. Instead we'll likely get an already proficient team leader with great tactical/technical skills in Iris which is quite jarring. This is why most of the audience will feel like her being team leader came out of nowhere and feel like she's unqualified when she has already had months of experience.

As a comparison - to the audience it'll feel like Thea magically being able to run Verdant at the age of 19 instead of seeing someone like Felicity help Oliver as CEO in s2 (which she likely did most of his work anyways so she got experience from that), becoming VP and learning the ropes as Ray as a likely mentor in s3, and then becoming CEO in s4

Well in Flaspoint she ran point for Wally so they probably feel they've already shown she can do it.

 

Quote

A completely different topic: I saw somewhere that Melissa Benoist said the crossovers would have 2 big events that people would lose their minds over (don't know the specific words she used), but I can't seem to find the source or the real quote. Anyone heard of this and knows where it's from? (I apologize if this has been discussed already, I only checked the last page).

 

This was on the previous page:

15 hours ago, Chaser said:

https://twitter.com/karameltrash/status/891087492019089409

Here's a clip of MB talking the Crossover at SDCC. She sort of knows the premise and two big events are happening that are going to make the fans very happy (If it's a double wedding I swear ?)...Is it just me or does that contradict what MG said about just now pitching the crossover? Unless they told the cast before they actually got the do ahead. But that doesn't seem right.

I did laugh at her talking like SG has always been apart of the Crossovers. 

1

Edited July 29, 2017 by BkWurm1

[ruby24]

You know, it could be something like a WestAllen wedding in the Flash episode, and then whatever villain shenanigans cause Oliver to propose to Felicity again in the Arrow episode?

[Velocity23]

two wedding in 1 season let alone 1 crossover event just not happening.

Since GG implied that he and his fiance are closer to a wedding then WA i would say its  not happening at least not in 4A.

[Primal Slayer]

5 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Iris straight up going towards the villain makes it seem like its not just a case of her being there. 

I dont see anything that points towards her seeking out the villain or her just being there and deciding to confront him.

[statsgirl]

4 hours ago, wonderwall said:

To me the problem with Iris becoming team leader is that months have gone by since she likely became one. So we never got to see her learning the ropes, struggling at being team leader. Instead we'll likely get an already proficient team leader with great tactical/technical skills in Iris which is quite jarring. This is why most of the audience will feel like her being team leader came out of nowhere and feel like she's unqualified when she has already had months of experience.

As a comparison - to the audience it'll feel like Thea magically being able to run Verdant at the age of 19 instead of seeing someone like Felicity help Oliver as CEO in s2 (which she likely did most of his work anyways so she got experience from that), becoming VP and learning the ropes as Ray as a likely mentor in s3, and then becoming CEO in s4

That is the problem with both Flash and Arrow, that anything the writers don't feel like writing for happens over the summer hiatus and then it's "Oh, we have to keep to real time on the show".

6 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I had a different interpretation and took it as her rallying them to save the city while Barry is gone. Her pulling them together to organise themselves to work out how to defeat the baddie rather than actually making strategic calls like Oliver and Felicity do. 

I think Iris should have slowly been working towards running the Team over the last two seasons ever since Iris found out.  Frankly, there is no one on Team Flash who is more sane and less likely to go off on a tangent and jeopardize missions than Iris.  She's smart, she's sane and she isn't overwhelmed by her own ego.  She should have been co-ordinating things, leaving each version of Wells to do his own thing, monitoring Cisco as he invents things and goes off on tangents, stabilizing Caitlin and vetting people who come and join the Team.

Her role as a reporter is never going to be anything more than tangential to the show so have her fill a needed role on the Team instead of a Damsel.

[RedVitC]

4 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

This was on the previous page:

19 hours ago, Chaser said:

https://twitter.com/karameltrash/status/891087492019089409

Here's a clip of MB talking the Crossover at SDCC. She sort of knows the premise and two big events are happening that are going to make the fans very happy (If it's a double wedding I swear ?)...Is it just me or does that contradict what MG said about just now pitching the crossover? Unless they told the cast before they actually got the do ahead. But that doesn't seem right.

I did laugh at her talking like SG has always been apart of the Crossovers. 

1

Ah, Thank you! I should have checked it better, sorry!

I think one of the big events is a wedding, Grant said that the thinks the reason everyone will meet up will be a fun one this time, but the other might be some big comic book event. I've seen Wendy Mericle say several times now that comic book fans will be happy and Marc said that even the title will get people talking (or excited or something like that), so it's probably an event that is known by the title alone. I'm not that knowledgeable when it comes to that, so I have no idea. If they're going to involve the Legion of Superheroes on Supergirl maybe that could tie into the crossovers. I think they're a team from the future (that's what I read on wiki anyway).

[johntfs]

7 hours ago, ComicFan777 said:

I am hesitant to say that learning the ropes for a few months would be adequate to become team leader.

I think it'd be adequate to become team leader for Team Flash.  It's not like they've been blessed by brilliant strategists in the past.  If Iris says, "Let's look at this for a few seconds before stupidly jumping in" that's a giant leap forward.  Plus Iris is the only Team Flash member to personally kill a Big Bad without dying in the process.

[statsgirl]

From the Green Arrow in the Comics thread:

On 2017-07-27 at 8:56 PM, LeighAn said:

Although this is one area where I tend to side with the "canon" argument just because I think Superman needs that touch with humanity and his romance with Lois I always felt was a good way of someone remarkable an out of this world recognising and loving the remarkable in someone human and ordinary who fights for justice in their own non powered ways. Superman/Wonder Woman just felt from the little I saw of making Superman remote and isolated from humanity because Wonder Woman is the only other person who can supposedly understand him. Plus I found the whole Wonder Woman is the only woman strong enough to take Superman seed made by comic frat boys on the internet as personally gross.

Interestingly this is what they did on Supergirl this season, have Supergirl say that she can only fight with Mon El and other aliens because humans are too weak and would be hurt too much.  There were even comments on the boards that Supergirl couldn't be in a sexual relationship with a human because she would break him/her.

It ended up isolating Supergirl in her show from everyone she was close to last season (Winn, James, J'onn and even Alex) and for me it was a massive failure.

Edited July 30, 2017 by statsgirl

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

From the Green Arrow in the Comics thread:

Interestingly this is what they did on Supergirl this season, have Supergirl say that she can only fight with Mon El and other aliens because humans are too weak and would be hurt too much.  There were even comments on the boards that Supergirl couldn't be in a sexual relationship with a human because she would break him/her.

It ended up isolating Supergirl in her show from everyone she was close to last season (Winn, James, J'onn and even Alex) and for me it was a massive failure.

I agree that they took away from Supergirl an important element that Superman had that really connected him to humanity and the people of earth.  Or at least switched Kara's connection to humanity to Alex rather than a romantic partner.  I do love Alex and Kara's bond, but Clark also had his parents in addition to Lois so I think Kara didn't need to just have one absolute love that was human.    

Sadly, I think there's a sexist belief that it's ok for the woman to have lesser power in a relationship but not the man, so they instead made Mon-El fairly close to Kara's equal physically if not in other areas.  But the issues they had in writing James and Kara in a relationship IMO had nothing to do with him not also being out in the field as an equal fighter.  They just used him poorly.  If they'd let him be successful in his own area rather than drag him down into a love triangle that made him look wishy washy, I don't think they'd have replaced him.  

I don't hate Mon-El like some, but he bores me.  Their relationship isn't that interesting and it really doesn't have the potential to be more interesting in the future.  Which is a huge pity.  

[statsgirl]

The end of season 1 of Supergirl looked like she was heading into a relationship with James.  Finally got everything worked out and now they could be together.  Then the show got Chris Wood and the show did a hard 180.  Supergirl didn't even finish her first date with James before she was telling him that she needed to concentrate on being Supergirl rather than dating, shortly before she started dating Mon El.  Supergirl even out and out told James that he can't be a fighter because he's not as strong as she and Mon El are.

There was a lot wrong about the writing of James in s1, and even more in s2 but I think the fact that he was replace had nothing to do with how he was written in s1 and everything to do with Chris Woods and the CW's ideal frat boy man.

[BkWurm1]

34 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

There was a lot wrong about the writing of James in s1, and even more in s2 but I think the fact that he was replace had nothing to do with how he was written in s1 and everything to do with Chris Woods and the CW's ideal frat boy man.

I guess I figured the only reason they were looking to replace him with their ideal manboy was because of the previous poor writing.  Six of one, half dozen of the other.  

[Starfish35]

29 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I guess I figured the only reason they were looking to replace him with their ideal manboy was because of the previous poor writing.

I agree.  If Kara/James had been received better, I don't think they'd have been as eager to replace it.  I think they would have gone a different direction in season two whether they got Chris Wood or not.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Starfish35

[statsgirl]

For me the thing is that they didn't just replace the Kara/James relationship with Mon El, they replaced every relationship in Kara's life with Mon El.  Winn was her best friend in s1 but in s2, that disappeared and Winn was either IT for the DEA or in a bubble with Lyra and James.  Kara did a lot of fighting with J'onn at her side in s1 but that disappeared in s2 because it was Mon El with her unless it was an "all hands on deck" situation.  One of the foundations of s1 was the Kara/Alex relationship but that practically disappeared in s2 except for three occasions;  Alex coming out to Kara and talking about Maggie; the return of Jeremiah; and the kidnapping of Alex.  Other than those episodes, they were like casual co-workers.

Kara spent s1 trying to do a good job at Catco so that she could become whatever Cat Grant would let her be and it culminated when she was given her own office and a reporter's job.  In s2 when she lost that job, she told Mon El that she didn't need to work at Catco, all she needed was him and her blog.  (I wanted to mute the TV of every young girl with aspirations when I heard that.)

That's why it seems to be more than just a failed relationship in s1, because if that were the case then they could have set up Supergirl's relationship with Mon El without changing the whole template of the show.  But I guess my bias is that I didn't see anything wrong with the Kara/James chemistry in the initial episodes until they pulled out every cliche in the book to stall the relationship, including James' old girlfriend and her jealousy, Cat's son, and every other bad writing trope.  Then it sank like an anchor.

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

But I guess my bias is that I didn't see anything wrong with the Kara/James chemistry in the initial episodes until they pulled out every cliche in the book to stall the relationship, including James' old girlfriend and her jealousy, Cat's son, and every other bad writing trope.  Then it sank like an anchor.

No, I agree, the initial setup worked.  But what followed didn't. And I agree they let a lot of good things about season one slide, but I think less Alex was because of more Maggie, less Wynn was sticking any of his time not at the DEO into James's Guardian story and then Lyra and lack of focus at Catco was because they no longer had the awesome Cat Grant to write for.  Snapper Carr just didn't measure up and they didn't even realistically try to have James take over.   

They made the show in the second season more of a group show.  Kara is still the lead, but they didn't include her in all of the storylines anymore and that meant she lost out on stuff from the first season because of time constraints.  It seems like the problem is Mon-El because that's who Kara got stuck doing a lot of her scenes with but I think it was just once again a writing problem but this time that they didn't notice how fractured the important season one relationships had become due to not spending enough time on them.  

I hope they can work on the balance in relationships in season three but I doubt we'll ever again get as much focus on Kara as we did in the first season.   

Edited July 30, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Starfish35]

21 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I think less Alex was because of more Maggie, less Wynn was sticking any of his time not at the DEO into James's Guardian story and then Lyra and lack of focus at Catco was because they no longer had the awesome Cat Grant to write for.  Snapper Carr just didn't measure up and they didn't even realistically try to have James take over.   

I agree with this.

[quarks]

9 hours ago, statsgirl said:

There were even comments on the boards that Supergirl couldn't be in a sexual relationship with a human because she would break him/her.

This came directly from the show, where, after sleeping with Mon-El, Kara mentioned that it was so nice to be able to be with someone and not have to worry about hurting said person, and offhandedly noted that some of her previous attempts at romance had gone badly because she had physically hurt her partners.

Which was brand-new information to me, given that this had never come up in the first season with either James or Wynn, and given that Clark is with Lois in show canon - and unless Lois is adopted, she's presumably as human as her sister.  Not to mention Wynn's relationship with the physically stronger alien.  I suspect Supergirl will drop this point when/if Chris Woods ever leaves the show.

 

11 hours ago, johntfs said:

I think it'd be adequate to become team leader for Team Flash.  It's not like they've been blessed by brilliant strategists in the past.  If Iris says, "Let's look at this for a few seconds before stupidly jumping in" that's a giant leap forward.  

Quoted for pure truth.

[tv echo]

I love this - partly because it crosses DC/Marvel lines...

[Miss Dee]

10 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Sadly, I think there's a sexist belief that it's ok for the woman to have lesser power in a relationship but not the man, so they instead made Mon-El fairly close to Kara's equal physically if not in other areas.

Yet one more reason why the Wonder Woman movie kicked ass. Diana could have wiped the floor with Steve, and he didn't care. It was just part and parcel of what made her awesome. He was secure enough in himself to know he could be an equal partner even though they weren't equal in strength.

[LeighAn]

3 hours ago, quarks said:

This came directly from the show, where, after sleeping with Mon-El, Kara mentioned that it was so nice to be able to be with someone and not have to worry about hurting said person, and offhandedly noted that some of her previous attempts at romance had gone badly because she had physically hurt her partners.

Which was brand-new information to me, given that this had never come up in the first season with either James or Wynn, and given that Clark is with Lois in show canon - and unless Lois is adopted, she's presumably as human as her sister.  Not to mention Wynn's relationship with the physically stronger alien.  I suspect Supergirl will drop this point when/if Chris Woods ever leaves the show.

 

Quoted for pure truth.

Ew! So they actually referenced that in the dialogue of the show. Again ew.

 As Chloe Sullivan said to Clark if you can pat someone on the back or hug them of shake their hand without breaking any bones you can get physical with someone. 

[statsgirl]

I'd forgotten that Supergirl said outright in the show that it's nice to be able to be with him without worrying about hurting him.  Another example of just how hard they were pushing the character as being the bestest.

Good thing Wonder Woman didn't worry about that with Steve.

5 hours ago, quarks said:

 I suspect Supergirl will drop this point when/if Chris Woods ever leaves the show.

Unless Chris Woods wants to leave (and I can't imagine why he would), I think Supergirl will be cancelled before Mom El leaves.

[scarynikki12]

I think Chris Woods will leave if he and Melissa break up before the show ends.  The network may insist on another One Tree Hill situation, where Sophia Bush was forced to pretend to be in love with Chad Michael Murray for a season while dealing with their divorce, his cheating and all the publicity surrounding that.  I would hope not because that was an awful situation all around.  There's nothing to indicate that Chris and Melissa will have the same kind of relationship drama if/when they break up but the simplest solution is to write off Mon-el and find another project for Chris. 

[Autistic Queer]

On 28/07/2017 at 2:08 AM, johntfs said:

No, I'm in it too.  It's a bit ridiculous, but screw it.  If The Flash, involves time travel and multiple dimensions (and it does), then I'm cool with the idea of having characters played by one guy that embody that.  Sure, Harry Wells from Earth 2 is probably going to be the recurring callback character, but I like the idea of multiple Wells over the show's course.  And I still hold out hope for Tom C in drag playing Harriet Wells.

That's not drag that's playing a woman and TC doing it would be transphobic. Had it been any of the other Berlanti shows I would've said it was nailed on to happen, but The Flash seems to avoid the worst of the bigotry. 

Whoever said Alex and Maggie were good in Supergirl, I have to disagree. Every single is false, ever since the scene where Maggie said she wasn't white every scene has been false because every scene is lying to us. No matter what a false narrative is being played, it's all built on a lie, the best writers in the land, never mind those on Supergirl, can get past that. 

Same with Lena Luthor scenes. Lena is a disabled comics character, as far as I'm concerned that isn't Lena Luthor because Lena is disabled, and neither the character nor the actress are disabled, it's another false narrative. 

1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

I think Chris Woods will leave if he and Melissa break up before the show ends.  The network may insist on another One Tree Hill situation, where Sophia Bush was forced to pretend to be in love with Chad Michael Murray for a season while dealing with their divorce, his cheating and all the publicity surrounding that.  I would hope not because that was an awful situation all around.  There's nothing to indicate that Chris and Melissa will have the same kind of relationship drama if/when they break up but the simplest solution is to write off Mon-el and find another project for Chris. 

The lengths The CW go to pander to white male actors they would probably write out Melissa if they broke up. 

On a shallow note, man divorce looks good on Blake Jenner. 

[tv echo]

This is cute - and I agree (I would also go with "It's Barry's fault") - CP also said in the video that she doesn't think we'll see much of Reporter Iris this season, although we'll see her a little more developed in terms of agency and overseeing Team Flash...

Candice Patton Jokes She Would Rename The Flash "Damn it, Barry" [VIDEO]
by Russ Burlingame | July 28, 2017
http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/07/28/candice-patton-jokes-she-would-rename-the-flash-damn-it-barry/

Quote

Whenever something bad happens in the world, fans of The CW's The Flash will take to social media with memes and comments blaming Barry Allen's time-travel shenanigans for it.

The most common comment: "Damn it, Barry!"
*  *  *
“The save-the-date cards are out there, but who knows if that wedding’s going to happen actually? Damn it Barry!” Patton said of her character’s frustration over losing her fiancee. When we pointed out that the phrase was becoming an increasingly popular meme with fans, she added, “I think ‘Damn it Barry’ should be the name of our show, instead of The Flash. Just ‘Damn It, Barry.’ [Laughs] You know, he’s doing the best he can. He’s got a lot on his shoulders, he’s protecting the city. Give him a break!”

Edited July 30, 2017 by tv echo

[Featherhat]

11 minutes ago, AutisticSpoonie said:

That's not drag that's playing a woman and TC doing it would be transphobic. Had it been any of the other Berlanti shows I would've said it was nailed on to happen, but The Flash seems to avoid the worst of the bigotry. 

 

That's because out of all the shows, The Flash tries the least to include LGBT characters, since the only ones are minor recurring characters.

[LeighAn]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

This is cute - and I agree (I would also go with "It's Barry's fault") - CP also said in the video that she doesn't think we'll see much of Reporter Iris this season, although we'll see her a little more developed in terms of agency and overseeing Team Flash...

Candice Patton Jokes She Would Rename The Flash "Damn it, Barry" [VIDEO]
by Russ Burlingame | July 28, 2017
http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/07/28/candice-patton-jokes-she-would-rename-the-flash-damn-it-barry/

So Russ asked Canadice about the wedding but asked Emily if she think the show is better without the relationship stuff? I see you Russ! 

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, AutisticSpoonie said:

That's not drag that's playing a woman and TC doing it would be transphobic. Had it been any of the other Berlanti shows I would've said it was nailed on to happen, but The Flash seems to avoid the worst of the bigotry. 

So, was Melissa McCarthy a transphobic bigot when she played Sean Spicer?  For my part, I'd be cool with Tom C. playing Harriet Wells with the idea that he's playing different versions of the character he was hired to play.  I get that there's a line and I probably wouldn't be okay with Tom C playing a Black or Asian Harry Wells.  I also probably would be okay if he played an intelligent ape version of that character (Hairy Wells?).

2 hours ago, AutisticSpoonie said:

Same with Lena Luthor scenes. Lena is a disabled comics character, as far as I'm concerned that isn't Lena Luthor because Lena is disabled, and neither the character nor the actress are disabled, it's another false narrative. 

No, it isn't.  It"s just a different narrative.  In this television universe which is different from the comic book universe this version of Lena Luthor is not disabled.  It's much the same thing where in this TV universe Iris and Wally West aren't White.  It's doesn't make their characters false or liars, just different.  And that's okay.

[Starfish35]

I don't think Lena is disabled in all versions of the comics.  

[raven]

Discontinue the talk about bigotry and what is transphobic; it is off topic.

[Trini]

With the Justice League movie coming out close to when the 4-show crossover airs, I wonder if they'd have any references to the movie in the episodes? Even if they didn't do that, I expect they'd do some type of promo like with Supergirl and Wonder Woman. Or something like the 'Who will win' videos for B v S.

[Midnight Lullaby]

11 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I don't think Lena is disabled in all versions of the comics.  

Yup, this is true..

[tv echo]

I'd love to find video of this July 21 "Intro to TV Writing" panel at SDCC - - Spiro Skentzos joined the Arrow writing staff in May 2017, Sarah Tarkoff has been an Arrow writer since S4, Keto Shimizu is a former Arrow writer and current LoT writer (Keto's last written Arrow episode was 418, when Laurel was killed, and she then switched to the LoT writing staff last season)...

Edited July 31, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Sounds like both Arrow and LoT will have team of heroes vs. team of villains next season...

Why Legends Of Tomorrow Season 3 Has Those Villains, According To The Executive Producer
JULY 30, 2017
http://www.cinemablend.com/television/1686539/why-legends-of-tomorrow-season-3-has-those-villains-according-to-the-executive-producer

Quote

In terms of sheer scope and stakes, Legends of Tomorrow is the Arrow-verse's biggest show. With so many great heroes fighting to protect time itself, it only makes sense for the show to introduce an army of great villains -- such as Kuasa and Damien Darhk, both of whom will show up this season. The process of picking villains for this show is an arduous task, and it's apparently all about choosing villains with profound personal connections to the heroes. Legends of Tomorrow Executive Producer Phil Klemmer sat down with CinemaBlend and other outlets at San Diego Comic-Con and explained:

"Well I think the kernel that we're going to begin with is Damien Darhk, and we've come up with a way that he can come into our show. You know he was kind of glib and a lighter version of himself last season. We want to give him some real teeth and a real sort of sinister presence, and then we want to slowly build out his dark alliance and again, it would be great if we could take people and creatures from Flash and Arrow. We saw the Kuasa, characters that have a personal impact on our guys. That Amaya thought she had this destiny to fulfill, this season she'll learn that her destiny wasn't just pure, 'I will have a granddaughter who will become Vixen.' The idea is always mixed. And the idea that her lineage will also, that there will be a line of evil through her family. You want bad guys who have enriched our characters' story personally, as opposed to just two-dimensional 'I'm a bad guy who wants to rule the world.' Our show is frothy, and it's always personal."

Legends of Tomorrow seems to have learned from its mistakes as it moves into its third season. Rather than give audiences a fairly one-note bad guy -- such as Season 1's Vandal Savage -- the show is embracing its status as an ensemble-oriented adventure and bringing in villains who have specific connections to the various Legends. By bringing in people like Damien Darhk and Kuasa (who have specific connections to White Canary and Vixen, respectively) it pays off storylines that the Arrow-verse has already built up elsewhere.

Edited July 31, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Despite the success of Wonder Woman, the DCEU still sounds like a bit of a mess behind the scenes...

Looking at Deathstroke As the Next Possible Batman Villain
July 31, 2017 | Posted by Steve Gustafson
https://411mania.com/movies/looking-at-deathstroke-next-possible-batman-villain/

Quote

Let’s catch up. The Batman, the stand-alone Bruce Wayne film starring Ben Affleck, was announced and right away everyone got to talking about what the story was going to be about and, most importantly, who the main bad guy be. Affleck had earned some points with his portrayal of Batman and Bruce Wayne in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and he was given a blank check in the DC cinematic universe. He was going to be co-writing, directing, and starring in the movie and all was well.

Then it came out that Affleck wouldn’t be directing it due to the immense focus he would need to bring the Caped Crusader to the big screen. A bit of a stretch but understandable
*  *  *
Recently, it came out that Affleck wouldn’t be co-writing the movie either. Which drew attention but no one was alarmed as Matt Reeves had stepped in to direct and it would make sense he’d want to have a hand in the story. He confirmed this when he said, “No, it’s a new story. It’s just starting again. I’m excited about it. I think it’s going to be really cool…There’s a chance to do an almost noir-driven detective version of Batman that is point-of-view driven in a very, very powerful way, that will hopefully connect you to what’s going on inside of his head and inside of his heart.”

We then got a story from the Hollywood Reporter that Warner Bros. was working on a way to phase out Affleck as Batman. According to the THR story, Affleck being ushered out of the role will be “gracefully” addressed in an upcoming DC Extended Universe movie.

This looked to be debunked when Toby Emmerich told THR: “Ben is our Batman. We love him as Batman. We want to keep him in the cowl as long as we can.”

Regardless, it appears like Reeves is intending to go smaller scale with his vision and hasn’t given us any more information on villains he’s considering. In the original script, Deathstroke was the villain, with Joe Manganiello cast. That seems to be up in the air at the moment.

Which brings us to Manganiello. Joe is playing things close to the vest with his involvement in the new film. Manganiello spoke with THR for a new interview and, when asked if he is still on board as Deathstroke in The Batman, offered the best answer he could.

“I don’t [have any information about that],” Manganiello told the site. “Well, I do but nothing that I can share. I know everything but I can’t say any of it.” When asked if he knew when we would find out, he said, “That’s a good question for Warner Bros. and DC."
*  *  *
Manganiello has the physical stature to hold his own with Affleck’s Batman and it would have been a nice change of pace. My only issue is DC’s way of handling their cinematic and television universes. I enjoy Manu Bennett as Slade Wilson/Deathstroke on Arrow and while I can accept different actors playing the same role, I wish DC had done a little more planning to integrate both universes with one another.

Joe Manganiello addresses Deathstroke uncertainty in The Batman
NICK ROMANO JULY 29, 2017 
http://ew.com/movies/2017/07/29/batman-joe-manganiello-deathstroke-future/

Quote

Reeves said he’s using “a new story” for the standalone superhero film and not the script Affleck wrote. “It’s just starting again. I’m excited about it. I think it’s going to be really cool,” he remarked.
*  *  *
In an attempt to quell rumors about his end as the Caped Crusader, Affleck took the stage during the Warner Bros. panel at San Diego Comic-Con this month. “Let me be very clear. I am the luckiest guy in the world. Batman is the coolest f—ing part in any universe. DC. Marvel. I’m so thrilled to do it,” he told the Hall H audience at the convention center.

The actor also told EW, “My status remains what it always is. I’ve done the two movies. I’ve always intended on doing a third if Warners wants to make it. Certainly, if the Batphone rings, I will answer.”

He further explained, “It’s such a big job, in terms of the stunts and the suit and the action and the character. Trying to do that, and direct, would probably be too much. Something would be compromised. I think it came off, optically, to the broader world, like lack of interest or enthusiasm. When in fact I love this character.”

Edited July 31, 2017 by tv echo

[Velocity23]

[wonderwall]

Sounds hilariously ridiculous and boring AF.

[BkWurm1]

He almost looks like Barry.  

[Mellowyellow]

Is Elongated man the one with the wife that someone said might die?

[Morrigan2575]

The addition of Danny Trejo as Gypsy's dad sounds pretty cool.

[Proteus]

17 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Is Elongated man the one with the wife that someone said might die?

That's in the comics. I doubt they bring him on the show with a wife.

[BkWurm1]

29 minutes ago, Proteus said:

That's in the comics. I doubt they bring him on the show with a wife.

Why not?  Then we won't have to worry about anyone of our regulars dying.  

[way2interested]

29 minutes ago, Proteus said:

I doubt they bring him on the show with a wife.

Yeah, some of my friends and I were taking bets as to whether he was going to eventually paired with that new female character they have for the season as well.

[Starfish35]

I just looked her (Sue Dibny) up.  She's the one who's killed by Jean Loring, Ray's wife in the comics, right? I'd read about that (Wikipedia) but forgot about it.  One thing I noted - Barry was the best man at their wedding.

A couple of the commenters on TVLine are hoping he doesn't become Caitlin's next love interest.  That hadn't occurred to me but I'd have to agree.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Starfish35

[statsgirl]

I thought someone (DP?) said that Caitlin wasn't going to get a love interest this season.

If the Elongated Man is coming on, does that mean the speculation that this will be the crossover story was right?

[ruby24]

What was the speculation again?