Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[tv echo]

This was retweeted by Greg Berlanti...

[Chaser]

Basically to not waste BC they just had to get her in bed with GA. Cause that's all BC is, a warm body for GA. 

No one disrespects this character more than the comic critics. The irony.

[insomniadreams88]

13 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Quote

To be fair, Black Canary could still be saved on the show. Juliana Harkaway's version has room to grow and Katie Cassidy is returning as Black Siren as a regular for season six. As things stand right now, though, Black Canary has to be put in the 'Miss' pile.

 

It sounds like "the show must keep changing up Black Canary until I'm happy with what I see. If X doesn't work, try Y (even if Y means a character who has opposed the team, tried to kill them and was involved in the kidnapping of the main character's son)."

Edited June 20, 2017 by insomniadreams88

[lemotomato]

And even if they're only interested in seeing BC in a relationship with GA, they're ignoring the fact that the show already did that twice-- season 1 had Oliver/Laurel and season 2 had Oliver/Sara. 

[Starfish35]

1 minute ago, lemotomato said:

And even if they're only interested in seeing BC in a relationship with GA, they're ignoring the fact that the show already did that twice-- season 1 had Oliver/Laurel and season 2 had Oliver/Sara. 

Doesn't count. Laurel wasn't Black Canary then, and Sara was only "The Canary", not Black Canary.  /sarcasm

[Angel12d]

So, basically, BC isn't wasted as long as she's sleeping with GA. Wow. They really care about BC as an individual character, don't they?

NOT.

Edited June 20, 2017 by Angel12d

[lemotomato]

12 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Doesn't count. Laurel wasn't Black Canary then, and Sara was only "The Canary", not Black Canary.  /sarcasm

I'm trying and failing to think of any other show that has as many "The show isn't doing everything exactly the way I want them to, so they're doing it wrong!" articles written about it as Arrow.

[tv echo]

When did comics Aquaman become comics Green Arrow's twin? ...

[statsgirl]

53 minutes ago, tv echo said:

That's the thing, though. The Arrowverse has wasted Black Canary thanks to the writers continually changing their mind about what they want to do with the character.

I'd say that the writers knew exactly what they wanted to do with the character -- until they saw the pilot.  What failed is that they still kept trying to make it happen.

The problems with Curtis costume -- duh.  That's why comic book costumes don't translate directly in to real life.

Edited June 20, 2017 by statsgirl

[BkWurm1]

33 minutes ago, tv echo said:

When did comics Aquaman become comics Green Arrow's twin? ...

Aquaman in this cover looks...fishy.  ;)  And talk about a bad hair day.  If it was dry, I'm sure he could pull off the serial killer flop.  

Edited June 20, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Hiveminder]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

Basically to not waste BC they just had to get her in bed with GA. Cause that's all BC is, a warm body for GA. 

No one disrespects this character more than the comic critics. The irony.

Frankly, the best thing this show could have done for Black Canary was not have her on it. Oliver's at least twenty years older than her in the comics, right? She should still be in grade school. 

[ohjoy]

2 hours ago, Hiveminder said:

Frankly, the best thing this show could have done for Black Canary was not have her on it. Oliver's at least twenty years older than her in the comics, right? She should still be in grade school. 

The best thing this show could have done for itself was not have Black Canary in it. The (near) fatal mistake was intending to have a character from the pilot turn into Black Canary. If they had never decided to start with this character "Dinah Laurel Lance" then likely none of that mess would have happened.

[Starfish35]

4 minutes ago, RandomMe said:

The best thing this show could have done for itself was not have Black Canary in it. The (near) fatal mistake was intending to have a character from the pilot turn into Black Canary. If they had never decided to start with this character "Dinah Laurel Lance" then likely none of that mess would have happened.

I'm not sure about that.  I don't think the idea of having Black Canary in the show is inherently flawed.  But the execution was disastrously flawed, first with the casting, and then exacerbated by the writing.

[Primal Slayer]

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

When did comics Aquaman become comics Green Arrow's twin? ...

He's had the beard off and on.

2 hours ago, Hiveminder said:

Frankly, the best thing this show could have done for Black Canary was not have her on it. Oliver's at least twenty years older than her in the comics, right? She should still be in grade school. 

The best they could have done was not have her there from the start if she had to start from ground zero. 

[ohjoy]

9 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I'm not sure about that.  I don't think the idea of having Black Canary in the show is inherently flawed.  But the execution was disastrously flawed, first with the casting, and then exacerbated by the writing.

You're right; the idea of BC was not the problem -- it's the execution that failed everything, from their plan to have this particular DLL in the pilot with the intention of her becoming BC, through the casting and script writing and so on.

(I also kind of think if they hadn't intentionally started with this DLL then when FS came along they'd have picked Olicity up and no one would have been the wiser. The screaming wouldn't have been nearly as loud for GA/BC or against Olicity, because the expectation wouldn't have been set from the get-go. Of course, knowing these showrunners they probably would have just decided to turn FS into BC and be done with it -- which again, no one would have been the wiser, and there would have been no alter-ego name already in the show for other fans to cling to, because the official names for BC would have never come up. That's total personal spec though.)

[wonderwall]

I agree the best thing the show could've done was not have BC at all. I mean, what do the Olicity haters say? This show is called ARROW - it's supposed to be about Oliver. It's not the Arrow/Canary show :)

And to be honest, from what I've heard from the biggest BC fans, GA always brings BC down in the comics so IDK why any fan of hers would want her in this show. 

The best bet for a good BC would've been a BoP show but I doubt that will ever happen now that Black Lightning is on the CW and the CW has 5 DCTV shows on now.

[Starfish35]

I think a Dinah Laurel Lance, first and foremost played by a better actress, written to already have the skills, and without the pre-existing relationship, could have worked.  It wouldn't be the show we have today, but I don't think that means it wouldn't have worked at all.   

But I also agree with @wonderwall that a BoP show would have been the best place for Black Canary.  :(

Edited June 20, 2017 by Starfish35

[johntfs]

12 minutes ago, RandomMe said:

(I also kind of think if they hadn't intentionally started with this DLL then when FS came along they'd have picked Olicity up and no one would have been the wiser. The screaming wouldn't have been nearly as loud for GA/BC or against Olicity, because the expectation wouldn't have been set from the get-go. Of course, knowing these showrunners they probably would have just decided to turn FS into BC and be done with it -- which again, no one would have been the wiser, and there would have been no alter-ego name already in the show for other fans to cling to, because the official names for BC would have never come up. That's total personal spec though.)

I think they were a bit stuck because they were modelling on the comic.  The big love for Green Arrow is Black Canary, so they were kind of stuck with the idea of Black Canary being involved.  She's an "accessory" character, part of the "Arrow" set.  Think Spider-Man.  You have Peter Parker, but you also have Aunt May, J. Jonah Jameson, Flash Thompson, Gwen Stacy/Mary-Jane Watson, etc.  Black Canary is a character frequently linked to Green Arrow, so she had to make an appearance.  For one thing the character probably most linked to Green Arrow is Hal Jordan, the Green Lantern.  Green Lantern would not have worked well in Arrow.

Green Arrow: "I'll pin a couple of drug dealers to a wall by 'stapling' them there with arrows."

Green Lantern: "Cool.  I'll stop the boss from escaping by smashing his helicopter with a giant green cartoon boxing glove."

[statsgirl]

I think part of the problem is that the Black Canary is a masked superhero in her own right, unlike Iris West who can be slotted into The Flash and do nothing but give him pep talks and be damseled.  But the Black Canary is not an accessory character like Iris or even Lois Lane, she's an equal partner to the Green Arrow.

They probably didn't realize it when they wrote the initial scripts for Arrow but It's kind of a 'no win' situation, especially since SA's Oliver was so much stronger a character than Laurel of Tommy and it worked much better to have the story be around him than the DC version of Vampire Diaries.  Either the Black Canary is the co-star of the show, or  she is a recurring character, dropping in from time to time as Oliver's love interest/fighting partner, or she's not on the show at all because you'll get people crying for the comics Black Canary who would have to be a co-star.

I think it might have worked with Sara's Canary, dropping in from time to time and then returning to her own crusade.  But a Black Canary who stayed on the show fulltime had to be an equal partner in terms of fighting and loving and that would have been a whole different show.

[Starfish35]

6 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

a Black Canary who stayed on the show fulltime had to be an equal partner in terms of fighting and loving and that would have been a whole different show.

That I agree with.  She would need to be the Beckett to his Castle so to speak.  I don't think there would be anything wrong with a show structured that way, but you're right that it would be a different show.

[Hiveminder]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

I'm not sure about that.  I don't think the idea of having Black Canary in the show is inherently flawed.  But the execution was disastrously flawed, first with the casting, and then exacerbated by the writing.

 

58 minutes ago, RandomMe said:

You're right; the idea of BC was not the problem -- it's the execution that failed everything, from their plan to have this particular DLL in the pilot with the intention of her becoming BC, through the casting and script writing and so on.

(I also kind of think if they hadn't intentionally started with this DLL then when FS came along they'd have picked Olicity up and no one would have been the wiser. The screaming wouldn't have been nearly as loud for GA/BC or against Olicity, because the expectation wouldn't have been set from the get-go. Of course, knowing these showrunners they probably would have just decided to turn FS into BC and be done with it -- which again, no one would have been the wiser, and there would have been no alter-ego name already in the show for other fans to cling to, because the official names for BC would have never come up. That's total personal spec though.)

Absolutely, the idea of BC in a Green Arrow show is not a problem, but these writers and these show runners have shown that they can't do the character justice on this show.  So it would have been better to just give a few subtle Easter eggs, the occasional wink-wink-nudge-nudge mention of canaries or the like. BC and GA didn't even meet in the comics until Oliver was much older, so the comics fans shouldn't have been too upset about that even if they did wish they could see BC on the show. Hell, they could have given Sara a different last name and somehow shown that her eventual protege and successor was DLL if they really wanted to keep the quasi-incest, Oliver bangs all the canaries thing.

 Even with Olicity, it could have worked. Some of the comics fans would probably still hate her, but at least they could tell themselves she dies and Oliver is a widower when he meets BC. Honestly, I'd be okay with that. It would obviously happen long after the show is done because no way does this show last until Oliver is fifty something in any universe. I could just pretend Oliver and Felicity live happily ever after if I wanted to. Or, I could imagine that after moving on from Felicity's death like people do all the time Oliver met BC, who's a pretty great character without being screwed up by this show, and he's a better partner to her than he was in the comics. It would be sad, but I'd be totally fine with that as long as all the characters were treated with respect.

[johntfs]

8 hours ago, Hiveminder said:

 Even with Olicity, it could have worked. Some of the comics fans would probably still hate her, but at least they could tell themselves she dies and Oliver is a widower when he meets BC.

To be fair, there probably wouldn't have been an Olicity if the situation with Laurel hadn't so obviously stunk on ice.  Figure at least part of the reason Stephen Amell reacted to Emily Bett Rickards the way he did was that he was so happy to be acting with someone who was female, not a blood relation and who didn't have the stank of bad chemistry about her.  Consider how things might have played out had Caity Lotz been cast as Laurel and Katie Cassidy had ended up as Sara.  Stephen might well have liked Emily in their scene, but probably wouldn't have played it quite the charmed way he did without the impetus of "Oh thank Christ, a woman I can play a scene with!"

[BkWurm1]

38 minutes ago, johntfs said:

not a blood relation

There are still Queencest stores that keep showing up.  A poorly done BC has a lot to answer for.

[tv echo]

Nine ‘Black Lightning’ TV Series Questions, Answered
By Autumn Kelly   June 5, 2017
http://www.idigitaltimes.com/nine-black-lightning-tv-series-questions-answered-598165

Quote

“There are some smartass lines in there, and I love writing smartass lines, so I love the fact that’s a little bit of me in there, that they're doing that,” said Isabella. “I love the tone of the show. I had read a script, which, I think, was the second draft when the show was at Fox. I’m sure there will be some changes for the CW, but the Fox script was really edgy, and not fantasy-edgy like Arrow. Real-world edgy. Police brutality, driving while black, the gang. It really is real-world edgy and the more of that they keep, I think the more the TV show will work.”
*  *  *
“Jefferson Pierce is a middle-aged superhero, and a reluctant one. He doesn’t want to be a hero,” Isabella said. “A lot of superhero comics these days are so self absorbed, every issue the heroes are fighting their old enemies. They’re not actually doing stuff for the community, and that’s what I want to change. Those are the characters I want to write.”
*  *  *
Is There Arrowverse Crossover Potential?
Producers have said they don’t plan on crossing over Black Lightning with the Arrowverse so early in the series and Tony Isabella explains why.

“We talked about that, not that I have any say in it. I said early on, ‘You know, I’m a little tired of Black Lightning being subservient to other characters. I don't like him teaming up with Batman and Superman. They pretty much give him orders.’ We could always change it later on.”
*  *  *
No, There Is Not A Flashback Wig
The CW seems to have a weird thing for flashback wigs – think emo Barry Allen and shaggy-haired Oliver Queen – but no, we are not going to get the flashback fro in Black Lightning!

“We've established that the flashbacks are going to be bald, so it'll be the opposite. It won't be a wig. I'm thankfully not old enough to have been a hero in the '70s, so we won't go back that far,” Williams said.

Does Black Lightning Stay True To Comics?
Is There Arrowverse Crossover Potential?
What About Static Shock?
What Are Chances Of The Outsiders?
Is The Villain Tobias Whale?
Are Black Lightning’s Daughters Heroes Too?
What’s The Tone?
Who Is Lynn?
No, There Is Not A Flashback Wig

Edited June 21, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Some Arrowverse actors will be among the special guest attendees at the 43rd Saturn Awards show, which is scheduled to take place on June 28 in Burbank California...

The Red Carpet Guests Have Been Announced For the 43rd Saturn Awards
June 20, 2017 by Jonathan Barkan
https://www.dreadcentral.com/news/236006/red-carpet-guests-announced-43rd-saturn-awards/

Quote

As we near the ceremony for the 43rd Saturn Awards, the list of special guest attendees has been released and it’s chock full of genre stunners, including Sean Gunn, Bruce Campbell, Robert Forster, Lorenzo James Henrie, Betty Buckley, and many more.

Here’s the full list from the official press release:
Show Host Sean Gunn (Guardians of the Galaxy 1 and Vol. 2); Andrew Lincoln, Jeffrey Dean Morgan and “The Walking Dead” cast; Bruce Campbell (“Ash vs. Evil Dead”); Special Honoree Lee Majors (TV’s “Six Million Dollar Man”); Lindsay Wagner (“The Bionic Woman”); Melissa Benoist (“Supergirl”); Candice Patton (“The Flash”); Betty Buckley (Split); Gareth Edwards (Director, Rogue One: A Star Wars Story), Sam Raimi (The Evil Dead creator), KJ Apa (“Riverdale”); Special Honoree Akiva Goldsman (Oscar-winning screenwriter, A Beautiful Mind); Tim Matheson (National Lampoon’s Animal House, 1941); Echo Kellum (“Arrow”); Special Honorees Rick Jaffa & Amanda Silver (producer-writers, War of the Planet of the Apes); Violett Beane (“The Flash”); Johnathon Schaech (“DC’s Legends of Tomorrow”); Robert Forster (“Twin Peaks: The Return”); Sydelle Noel (Netflix’s “Glow”); Lorenzo James Henrie (“Fear the Walking Dead”); Brianna Hildebrand (Deadpool).

You may recall, Arrow, Flash and Supergirl are among the nominees for Best Superhero Adaptation Television Series (Flash and Supergirl have noms in other categories as well):
http://variety.com/2017/film/awards/saturn-awards-nominations-2017-rogue-one-walking-dead-1202000833/

Edited June 21, 2017 by tv echo

[Featherhat]

One of the biggest problems of LL as BC was they wrote her as a poor man's Rachel Dawes with an even more toxic backstory than Bruce/Rachel, that was always going to hamper the storyline but the anti chemistry and the look on SA's face whenever he was playing a scene with her torpedoed it further.

But Ok say BecauseComics! do get their way who would it be? Tinah, that would literally be just because she's Legacy!BC someone Oliver and TA picked out because she fit, not because she's as special to him as LL was supposed to be, isn't that an insult to LL. Felicity dies/they break up and Tinah gets what LL never could even though she claimed she still wanted him on her death bed. BS/Reformed BS? Would make KC fans happier but still an insult to E1 Laurel that Oliver gets with her and furthers the "we only give a shit about the name not the character" Thing. Which isn't the case for most comics characters Oliver is NOT sleeping with such as changes/creation of made to Thea, Roy, Moira, MM etc etc. So yeah they don't care about the character as long as he's banging that. Not to mention even as BS KC has anti chemistry with SA and that would especially show though if they did a (gag) redemption "love story".

I wonder if there is any chance all these articles will end up persuading TPTB to give whichever of the two they choose another shot with Oliver?

I like Olicity but if she left or died I wouldn't be advocating that Oliver tap E2 or EWhatever Felicity.

19 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Doesn't count. Laurel wasn't Black Canary then, and Sara was only "The Canary", not Black Canary.  /sarcasm

And yet you'll notice when they give the right actress all the attributes nd badassary of Comics Canary (even without the all important "Black") said character becomes the defacto lead character on her own show.

[LeighAn]

@Featherhat Judging from Marcs replies on tumblr I think he's wised up on understanding and reading the fine print. He usually can tell when someone criticises him about not respecting comics as really an argument of you're not giving me the  comic couple/romance I want and then he usually sarcastically dismisses them. So I think even if the writers were to read this article they like us would be able to read the underlying argument which is pigeon holing Black Canarys "success" into how fast they can get her having the sex with Green Arrow. 

 

As for why comic fans pigeon hole Black Canary success as a character to how often she's in the sack with Green Arrow, I think the same people usually hold WestAllen as the brand standard for comic relationship where since being with Barry Iris has pretty much sacrificed most her individual identity outside of supporting Barry and his Flash endeavours. Comic fans seem to want Betty Draper, the little woman waiting at home who puts up with her Husbands bullshit in silence, while the writers of Arrow are giving them Peggy Olson, who's cool and aspiring of her own merits not just as an extension of who she is with [Metaphor Only! For the sake of argument. Not trying to compare Arrow to the great (and arguably best written show in recent television history) Mad Men]

[tv echo]

Former Superman Star Wants Lois & Clark Revival
by Jenna Anderson | June 21, 2017
http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/06/21/lois-clark-the-new-adventures-of-superman-revival/

Quote

In an interview with Australia's 7 News Sydney, [Dean] Cain was asked if he would be willing to suit up as Clark Kent/Superman again. Cain explained that Lois & Clark - which starred Cain and Teri Hatcher - wasn't given the chance to end properly, after circumstances prevented the show from filming its originally-planned fifth season.

"Well, you know what, we ended our show after four seasons in a weird way because we’re supposed to do a fifth season." Cain explained. "Teri [Hatcher] got pregnant in between and couldn’t work on that fifth season so they decided to shut it down. I would have liked to done that fifth season, I think we still need a fifth season, we need something, at least part of a fifth season. So I’m hoping that we get a chance to maybe finish up the series."
*  *  *
"Maybe it’s six episodes, maybe it’s ten episodes, maybe it’s a two-hour movie." Cain asserted. "But I think it would be really interesting to catch up with these two characters twenty years down the line and see what’s happened in their lives. If they have had children or what’s going on with their kids, I think it’s really interesting and I’m certainly willing to."
*  *  *
"Teri says she is willing to so we’ll see if that can happen," Cain revealed. "Somebody out there from Warner Bros: make that happen, let’s go!"

Edited June 22, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

CPM is defined in this article as "cost per thousand viewers reached"...

CBS and The CW Both Wrap Their Upfront Sales With Double-Digit CPM Increases
Jason Lynch   June 21, 2017
http://www.adweek.com/tv-video/cbs-and-the-cw-both-wrap-their-upfront-sales-with-double-digit-cpm-increases/

Quote

Meanwhile, CBS’ corporate sibling The CW, which has its own ad sales team, has also completed its upfront sales.

The network saw volume increases between 3 and 5 percent and pushed for CPM increases in the high single digits to low double digits, according to a source familiar with negotiations.
*  *  *
There was strong buyer interest in the network’s four freshman series: its Dynasty reboot and military drama Valor, both due this fall, as well Black Lightning (The CW’s fifth superhero series) and Life Sentence, set for midseason.

Last season’s four-show superhero crossover in late November and early December—featuring the casts of Supergirl, The Flash, Arrow and DC’s Legends of Tomorrow—was a ratings success, and while the network is in discussions with buyers for partnerships related to this year’s crossover, those conversations are not part of the upfront buys.

Edited June 22, 2017 by tv echo

[LeighAn]

Having watched the Dynasty trailer and wanting those two minutes of my life back I'm not sure what Ad buyers see in it I don't❓?

[tv echo]

In anticipation of next month's SDCC, here's a look back at some cast portraits taken by EW at SDCC 2016 last summer...

David Ramsey, Paul Blackthorne, Stephen Amell, Echo Kellum, Willa Holland, Emily Bett Rickards, and John Barrowman, 'Arrow'

Candice Patton, Grant Gustin, Jesse L. Martin, and Keiynan Lonsdale, 'The Flash'

Dominic Purcell, Victor Garber, Caity Lotz, Brandon Routh, Franz Drameh, Arthur Darvill, Maisie Richardson-Sellers and Nick Zano, 'DC's Legends Of Tomorrow'

Melissa Benoist and Tyler Hoechlin, 'Supergirl'

Chloe Bennet, Iain De Caestecker, Ming-Na Wen, Henry Simmons, Elizabeth Henstridge, and Clark Gregg, 'Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.'

Camren Bicondova, Michael Chiklis, Jessica Lucas, Chris Chalk, Drew Powell, Benjamin McKenzie, Cory Michael Smith, Sean Pertwee, Erin Richards, Robin Lord Taylor, and David Mazouz, 'Gotham'

Director Patty Jenkins, Chris Pine, Gal Gadot, and Connie Nielsen, 'Wonder Woman'

Kurt Russell, Pom Klementieff, Dave Bautista, Karen Gillan, Zoe Saldana, Chris Pratt and Elizabeth Debicki, 'Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2'

Zendaya, Jacob Batalon, Tom Holland, Tony Revolori and Laura Harrier, 'Spider-Man: Homecoming'

Chadwick Boseman, Danai Gurira, Lupita Nyong'o, and Michael B. Jordan, 'Black Panther'

[way2interested]

The EW portraits are always some of my favorite parts of SDCC. Always looking forward to them.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Meanwhile, Candice's fans have shown up! More than 6,000 RTs?!?! Nice.

[Velocity23]

21 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Meanwhile, Candice's fans have shown up! More than 6,000 RTs?!?! Nice.

I see her fans found inspiration in KC in getting fake accounts. 

[Trini]

'Here's What We Want From the CW's DC Superhero Shows Next Season': (just the headlines)

Quote

Supergirl
• Leave Kara’s love life alone for a while
• Give Kara a better boss
• Refocus on Kara as a hero
• Give her a strong, central villain

Arrow

• Trim down Team Arrow
• Make Green Arrow an activist
• Don’t be afraid to get a little weird

Legends of Tomorrow
• Just keep on having fun
• Keep the time traveling unique
• A lot less Rip Hunter
• Get crazy with the new cast

The Flash
• No more time travel, seriously
• A big villain that isn’t another Speedster
• More serialized adventures
• Let Barry and Iris be happy for more than five seconds

I agree with most of these, except "Less Rip Hunter". Less Hunter and less Snart are one of the reasons why I dropped the show.

[wonderwall]

Barry and Iris were happy for most of the season... I'm more surprised that they don't want more for Iris other than being Barry's LI.

As for Arrow, I agree they need to trim down TA (take out Curtis, please). I don't agree that GA needs to be an activist though. And I'm fine Arrow not getting a little weird. I WOULD, however, like more episodes that explore different relationships. Oliver/Thea, Oliver/Quentin, Diggle/Felicity, Diggle/Thea, Felicity/Thea, Felicity/Quentin, Diggle/Quentin... There's a wealth of opportunity there and the show wastes it all the time.

[Proteus]

7 minutes ago, Trini said:

'Here's What We Want From the CW's DC Superhero Shows Next Season': (just the headlines)

I agree with most of these, except "Less Rip Hunter". Less Hunter and less Snart are one of the reasons why I dropped the show.

I still love Legends but ia. Less Rip and Snart really hurt Legends.

[tv echo]

In yesterday's EW Superhero Insider podcast (posted on page 3 of New Spoilers thread), MG said that they're having serious discussions about doing a puppet episode of LoT next season. He also differentiated last season's Rip Hunter from next season's Rip Hunter - this season's Rip is not evil, he's just trying to do things the proper way, in contrast to the Legends who do things in more unorthodox ways.

[statsgirl]

While I loved the puppet segment of Stargate SG1's 200 episode, I can't see it being interesting for a whole episode. 

I agree 100% on stopping the focus on Kara's love life and putting it on to her career and villain-fighting.  It's not going to happen though with Mon El next season.

For The Flash, I want less on Barry's need for pep talks and for Iris to finally be a real person and not just Barry's accessory.

[tarotx]

I still live for puppet Angel <3 

[tv echo]

Arrow spoiler was posted in the New Spoilers thread...

Spoiler Room: Scoop on Pretty Little Liars, Arrow, Chicago Fire, and more
NATALIE ABRAMS   JUNE 23, 2017
http://ew.com/tv/2017/06/23/spoiler-room-pretty-little-liars-arrow-chicago-fire/

Quote

What do you have on Legends of Tomorrow season 3? — Tara
The Legends of Tomorrow will find themselves facing off against Rip Hunter (and his new Time Bureau) once again next season, but it will be very different from what we saw last year. “In season 2, he was turned evil,” EP Marc Guggenheim says. “This is not Evil Rip. We’re not making Rip a bad guy or that kind of villain, rather this is Rip as… the Ronny Cox in Beverly Hills Cop to our Eddie Murphy. He’s the guy who’s trying to do things the proper way, follow the rules, get things done with a certain level of efficiency, and here come our Legends of Tomorrow, who go about things a bit more unorthodox.”

Edited June 23, 2017 by tv echo

[Trini]

2 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

I see her fans found inspiration in KC in getting fake accounts. 

Source for that?

[ruby24]

Guggenheim also dropped a vague hint about the crossover, saying how Berlanti said there was no way they could get "bigger" than aliens, and so the idea is to increase the "emotional stakes and payoff."

Very vague, but I still think they're going to plan the WestAllen wedding for it, given the November save the date card, and how an event like that is a natural way for all these characters to be invited to the same place.

[Trini]

I'm still 50/50 about whether they'd actually have the wedding during the crossover. But as for "emotional stakes", maybe we'll get some payoff with Killer Frost/Black Siren/Jeremiah Danvers - representing team members that have gone to the dark side and need redemption. (Yeah, I know Black Siren doesn't fit that as well as the others.)

Edited June 23, 2017 by Trini

[apinknightmare]

If they do put the WestAllen wedding during the crossover, I hope it's confined to one episode, and that episode is Flash so I can skip it. I can't think of anyone in the Arrowverse I'd less like to see get his heart's desire than that sack of crap.

[way2interested]

I'd rather that Civil War-esque idea that SA and DR liked about different people thinking that Barry is a bigger threat than he means to be.

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

I'm still 50/50 about whether they'd actually have the wedding during the crossover. But as for "emotional stakes", maybe we'll get some payoff with Killer Frost/Black Siren/Jeremiah Danvers - representing team members that have gone to the dark side and need redemption. (Yeah, I know Black Siren doesn't fit that as well as the others.)

I'm about 80/20 in how likely there will be a crossover wedding to be planned but then interrupted for STUFF!  Between the save the date card and the emotional stakes comment, it feels really likely.   Them actually going through with the wedding is something altogether different.    The only reason I'm even the least bit uncertain is because last year's crossover also had a kind of a wedding, even if the whole thing was faked by aliens. 

Edited June 23, 2017 by BkWurm1

[DrSpaceman10]

It's odd to me how Oliver/Felicity were engaged first (with a big deal made about their wedding), then that was dropped/ignored and Barry/Iris got engaged relatively soon after. The timing's suspicious. It's almost as though TPTB decided there couldn't be two engaged/married superhero couples in the Arrowverse, although I think it would have made more sense to go with married Olicity because they get a lot more Internet/Media buzz and are imo a much bigger part of the discussion surrounding Arrow than Westallen is with The Flash. 

Maybe Barry/Iris won't end up going through with it, but I'm not a fan of The Flash taking plot points from Arrow and then actually getting to follow through on them. 

[ruby24]

I think Flash fans expect Barry and Iris to be a married couple.

[Starfish35]

Looks like another good weekend for Wonder Woman:

Quote

Warner Bros/DC’s Wonder Woman, which is clicking past Universal’s Mamma Mia! on a worldwide basis to become the highest-grossing live-action movie directed by a female with $610M, will stay planted in second place with an estimated $26M take (down a marvelous 37%). By Sunday, the Patty Jenkins-directed movie will hurl itself past $319.2M, just $5.8M shy of taking out Suicide Squad and another $11.1M before Wonder Woman shows Batman V. Superman ($330.3M) who exactly is the boss at the box office. Wonder Woman is looking at an estimated $7M today.

http://deadline.com/2017/06/transformers-the-last-knight-opening-weekend-box-office-1202118976/