Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[statsgirl]

Oliver asked Kara to back away i.e. not go with them to talk to the president because he needs some normal.  then she saved him in the big fight and he apologized.

I really really like how Felicity was written on this one and her geeking out with Cisco was great (didn't like that they didn't get to be acknowledged as heros, the only part I didn't like) but WHT was that ending?  Oliver saying that the dream world, showing how things would have been if they didn't get on the Gambit, was a gift?  It made it sound like he was glad to know that he would have been marrying Laurel.

[Morrigan2575]

Felicty did more on LoT than Flash and Arrow. I imagine they don't care about that since they treat the crossover as one huge story.

I liked LoT the best of the 3 episodes, Arrow takes second place.

[Primal Slayer]

Sending Felicity/Cisco into super geek mode made them super annoying, it's like they were on coke or something.

Olivers life in the dream world was a lot more then just marrying Laurel. His parents were alive, everyone was happy. It had nothing to do with just 1 person.

[Sakura12]

I thought it would've been very therapeutic for Oliver and Sara to see lost loved ones and say goodbye and kill their enemies. That's how I took Oliver's gift line. They were given a chance to do that even though it wasn't real. It was something to lighten the many many burdens the two of them carry. 

[LeighAn]

I thought he meant that getting on the gambit was a gift because it made his life full. 

[Morrigan2575]

I think it was also about them getting closure and letting go of their burdens. They were given a chance at a world without those 5 years of pain and everything that's come after. However, this time they chose this life, even knowing all the bad things. I think they were a bit freed up from their guilt and sorrow. 

[Sunshine]

Felicity looked at Kara in her street clothes and said it's like looking in a mirror.  Ray replied "She looks just like my cousin." 

The final Oliver & Barry toast was "To the Fuller Life."

Edited December 2, 2016 by Sunshine

[JJ928]

I can't believe I liked an episode of Legends as much as I did tonight. I won't lie it was mostly because there was so much good stuff for Felicity & Cisco but the episode as a whole was well balanced. If Legends put out more eps like this, I'd totally watch on a regular basis. Legends was the best out of the crossovers imo.

Edited December 2, 2016 by JJ928

[Sakura12]

I think LoT has been putting on episodes like that this season. The dead weight of the Hawks and Savage are gone. And Cold and Rip are back for the second half of the season. It's not perfect, but none of these shows are. 

[Mellowyellow]

LoT is the best show of the bunch this season. I've enjoyed every single episode so far. 

And I'm uber excited to watch tonight's ep because it's LoT with Felicity in it!!!!!!! That's freaking me out in a totally great way. I hope she gets a scene with Ray!

[insomniadreams88]

I loved Felicity and Cisco together. Really want more scenes with them in the future.

Oliver leaving Kara behind was just as stupid as everyone agreeing to leave Barry and Oliver behind on The Flash. There were aliens attacking Earth. Deal with personal feelings on your own time! As soon as that happened, I knew he was going to be apologizing to her by episode's end after she saved his life mid-battle. 

The Felicity/Ray cousin moment was just awkward. Did remind me of Oliver's comment about the two of them being related though. 

ETA: I also get the whole Superman reference. But I do have to wonder - is Ray just going to keep mentioning a new family member every season? Didn't we get something about his brother in LoT S1?

Edited December 2, 2016 by insomniadreams88

[wonderwall]

I'm honestly so glad Felicity was relevant and helped save the world and actually DID something instead of just playing the helpless love interest that was just there and didn't do anything noteworthy. :)

[JJ928]

34 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I think LoT has been putting on episodes like that this season. The dead weight of the Hawks and Savage are gone. And Cold and Rip are back for the second half of the season. It's not perfect, but none of these shows are. 

I've seen two episodes this season and they were a little too much for me. It was the premier & the one where they were in a Japanese village (I didn't like the white savior role in this one). Other than those 2, I watched tonight. Maybe I'll binge the season during hiatus and see if it's something that I can enjoy.

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

is Ray just going to keep mentioning a new family member every season? Didn't we get something about his brother in LoT S1?

That reminds me....wasn't there a spoiler about Ray's brother appearing on Arrow this season?   Help! Am I hallucinating again?  It seems like I remember some discussion about this, but I can't place it.

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, JJ928 said:

I can't believe I liked an episode of Legends as much as I did tonight. I won't lie it was mostly because there was so much good stuff for Felicity & Cisco but the episode as a whole was well balanced. If Legends put out more eps like this, I'd totally watch on a regular basis. Legends was the best out of the crossovers imo.

I think Legends does the best job of balancing their cast and they regularly mix them up so in a way you get that crossover feeling all the time, finding something new and fun.  Even tonight with the combo of Mick, Amaya and Nate, that was a first and they worked pretty well.  Well, Felicity and Cisco probably helped, lol.  ;p

59 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

LoT is the best show of the bunch this season. I've enjoyed every single episode so far. 

And I'm uber excited to watch tonight's ep because it's LoT with Felicity in it!!!!!!! That's freaking me out in a totally great way. I hope she gets a scene with Ray!

Not a lot of Ray really but she did get a scene, lol.  These two are so much better off as friends.  

54 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I loved Felicity and Cisco together. Really want more scenes with them in the future.

Oliver leaving Kara behind was just as stupid as everyone agreeing to leave Barry and Oliver behind on The Flash. There were aliens attacking Earth. Deal with personal feelings on your own time! As soon as that happened, I knew he was going to be apologizing to her by episode's end after she saved his life mid-battle. 

The Felicity/Ray cousin moment was just awkward. Did remind me of Oliver's comment about the two of them being related though. 

ETA: I also get the whole Superman reference. But I do have to wonder - is Ray just going to keep mentioning a new family member every season? Didn't we get something about his brother in LoT S1?

I liked CIsco and Felicity but didn't love them.  Cisco is way too much about  Cisco these days.  Felicity was there to help him work through his issues, be hilarious (the time travel gags landed well with me) and be the genius holding it all together.  I always love Felicity but she had zero material in any of the parts with any emotional weight, unless one counts feeling bad for Barry.  (I don't, lol)  But while that is disappointing, I then remember how badly they messed up with her (among so many other things) in last years crossover, so I'll let it slide this time.  

30 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

I've seen two episodes this season and they were a little too much for me. It was the premier & the one where they were in a Japanese village (I didn't like the white savior role in this one). Other than those 2, I watched tonight. Maybe I'll binge the season during hiatus and see if it's something that I can enjoy.

I think those were the weakest of the season.  The first one was not the normal episode structure and the Japanese Village one was badly pushing the newbie.  

1 minute ago, Starfish35 said:

That reminds me....wasn't there a spoiler about Ray's brother appearing on Arrow this season?   Help! Am I hallucinating again?  It seems like I remember some discussion about this, but I can't place it.

Maybe he can be Prometheous!  ;)

[Starfish35]

Yes, one thing LoT does well is mix up their cast.  I wish the other shows, Arrow in particular, would take notes.

[Sunshine]

I'm okay with Supergirl saving Oliver but why didn't Oliver just reach into his quiver and grab his parachute arrow?  Did he forget to pack it? :-)

[lemotomato]

I loved the LoT episode. I thought out of all 3 shows, they had the best balance between the LoT characters and the guest characters. Everyone got to do something significant to contribute to the final battle, even Stein's daughter. The whole episode was well shot, including the fights. 

If I had to rank the crossover parts in terms of how much I enjoyed them, it would be 1) Lot 207, 2) Flash 308, and 3) Arrow 508 

Edited December 2, 2016 by lemotomato

[statsgirl]

3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Felicty did more on LoT than Flash and Arrow. I imagine they don't care about that since they treat the crossover as one huge story.

For me, it wasn't just that she did more, it was that she was smarter.  Like the other Arrow episodes this year, Felicity is either comic relief in an I Love Lucy kind of way (as she was when she freaked out that they couldn't deal with the alien tech, or the somewhat cluesless Felicity who was Ray's date) or just there to take coffee to Mayo so he can help them with a case.  Not only  was she offering real tech support of The Flash and LoT, on LoT she was offering real emotional support to Cisco in a way she no longer gives Oliver and can't give Diggle since they barely have any scenes together that aren't about the current villain they're fighting.

I could have dealt with the n00bs better if they hadn't diminished Felicity so much this season.

[Tazmania]

3 hours ago, wonderwall said:

I'm honestly so glad Felicity was relevant and helped save the world and actually DID something instead of just playing the helpless love interest that was just there and didn't do anything noteworthy. :)

Errr .... Felicity has always saved the day ... since S1. She was NEVER the damsel ... even when she got caught, she was either the bait (against Slade and Dollmaker) or she got caught while actually doing the ground work (Count Vertigo) but she was never just the damsel ... 

I quite liked this episode of LOT. My one complaint was that I really wanted a Kara/Felicity interaction ... they would have looked as cute as two golden retriever puppies but sadly, its a tv show and we can't have everything we want. 

[wonderwall]

4 minutes ago, Tazmania said:

Errr .... Felicity has always saved the day ... since S1. She was NEVER the damsel ... even when she got caught, she was either the bait (against Slade and Dollmaker) or she got caught while actually doing the ground work (Count Vertigo) but she was never just the damsel ... 

... That was a tongue-in-cheek comment as a response to another one in this thread. I'm well aware of Felicity's record on how many times she's saved the city/world considering I actually spent the time to list them on my tumblr page.

[doesntworkonwood]

I think that the ending of this episode sort of fixed what was my second biggest problem with the Arrow episode (that Oliver didn't seem to want to come back). However, it just exacerbated my biggest problem with Arrow at the moment, which is Felicity not having much of anything to actually do. In this episode Felicity was smart and helpful and present, whereas in the Arrow part of the crossover she felt more like an afterthought. I feel like that's something that's been going on a lot this season on Arrow.

[bijoux]

5 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I really really like how Felicity was written on this one and her geeking out with Cisco was great (didn't like that they didn't get to be acknowledged as heros, the only part I didn't like) but WHT was that ending?  Oliver saying that the dream world, showing how things would have been if they didn't get on the Gambit, was a gift?  It made it sound like he was glad to know that he would have been marrying Laurel.

My read on it was that seeing that version actually allowed him to see and appreciate the life he is living more. He didn't even need to see himself as Ollie, it was a good life on the surface, just not one that satisfies him any more. This actually gives more weight to his choice to get out of it than if it had been a clusterfuck. Of course he's havve wanted to escape then.

2 hours ago, lemotomato said:

I loved the LoT episode. I thought out of all 3 shows, they had the best balance between the LoT characters and the guest characters. Everyone got to do something significant to contribute to the final battle, even Stein's daughter. The whole episode was well shot, including the fights. 

I was actually kind of surprised by how much time was spent on the people from other shows rather than LoT. Like, I felt there was really little Sara, but that was counterbalanced by her presence on Arrow the night before. And one thing I did find surprising is that they chose the closing scene to be with guys who aren't even on the show.

My favorite little moment was Mick's, Call me. That and Kara's weirded out reaction were tops.

Hey, great explanation on Thea sitting out. Excuse me while I chortle. What's funniest is that there was such an easy out. She could have been injured while they were escaping from the aliens. Nothing life threatening, just enough to keep her out of the field. 

[lemotomato]

Just putting this out there, but if anyone sees a gif of Felicity pressing the big red button to bring pain onto the Dominators, let me know? 

Nevermind, I just made it myself :P

Edited December 2, 2016 by lemotomato

[Trini]

Aw -- I know the crossovers were written and filmed before Election Day, but even the Berlanti-verse expected a female president. (Hopefully, they don't feel the need to change that because of real world results.)

[BkWurm1]

39 minutes ago, doesntworkonwood said:

I think that the ending of this episode sort of fixed what was my second biggest problem with the Arrow episode (that Oliver didn't seem to want to come back). However, it just exacerbated my biggest problem with Arrow at the moment, which is Felicity not having much of anything to actually do. In this episode Felicity was smart and helpful and present, whereas in the Arrow part of the crossover she felt more like an afterthought. I feel like that's something that's been going on a lot this season on Arrow.

I think for me the reason Felicity feels like an after thought is what she did in the crossover held no emotional weight. There were some funny lines and gags and I loved her expressions and her acting choices, but there were not any what I'd call memorable moments from Felicity.  (except for Flashback Felicity).  

She's barely been allowed to worry or be concerned about anything this year (her Havenrock story line was blink and you miss it) and not at all during the crossover, well except over Cisco being mad at Barry.  This isn't how Felicity behaves.  She cares about people. She's invested.  She has ups and downs.  Felicity acts lately like she's on mood stabilizers where she's not feeling or reacting to anything really, just doing the job and putting on the funny front and I think that's why I feel so disconnected from Arrow this year.

 I'm not getting emotional beats anymore from her.  And IMO for most of the series, Felicity always was the emotional touchstone of the show. The show set the tone for a scene or an episode in how she reacted  or set up a space for others to react, but now she reacts really to nothing and the majority of any emotional beats are coming from the boobs who I'm completely not connected to.     

Edited December 2, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Trini]

For the next crossover event*, how about something a little less ambitious? Like only a few cast members from one show visit another show -- but still happening in the same week. It's fun to watch a big action scene with multiple heroes, but otherwise, too many characters and get shortchanged, and the story suffers by being overstuffed.

Early speculation: it will be the DCTV Justice League vs. the Legion of Doom next year.
 

*(You know there will be another one with the ratings this one has delivered)

[bijoux]

Isn't the Legion of Doom the LoT nemesis this season? I don't think they will leave them undefeated.

[LeighAn]

I'm expecting them to do a Civil War rip off at some point honestly. 

[Mellowyellow]

Just finished watching it. Really really enjoyed it.  LoT does so well mixing it's cast around. Does anyone know if the LoT writers wrote all of this ep?

I enjoyed the mix of Stein/Caitlin and then Sara/Cisco. Take note and learn Arrow!

Loved Felicity and Cisco saving Mick and Co and being all badass with their guns.

"See you later Dominator" - Oh Ray, never change!

The cousin thing was hilarious. Loved reference and then the really awkward look between them after he said it. 

Wished there was a Felicity, Kara and Barry scene. 

One thing that makes me so sad though, I remember Felicity and Oliver being sort of background couple-y in the crossover last year (well before the lie that blew them up into smithereens). The Hawks plot was crap and I enjoyed this year's one so much more but I'm so sad that they are nothing to each other now. Not a thing.  Whoosh, gone.

Like my head cannon can see Felicity chatting with Ray, catching up and that they are now comfortable friends (which makes me smile) but when I see Felicity and Oliver there is no interaction. It's like they are nothing now. I don't even know if they are friends anymore. I'd wager she's more comfortable with Ray and Cisco *runs off and cries her little shippy heart out*

[looptab]

I liked this one the best. What I love about the crossovers is seeing the casts mixed up, but especially Oliver and Barry, and this is the one who did the best job with it IMO. Plus, Felicity was delightful - I loved her getting all the side effects of time travel. :) I only wish she got to interact with Stein and Kara.

So Danielle Panabaker got to crossover to only one show, like Willa. I didn't expect her in LOT. And I wonder where  Dig and Firestorm were for the first half of the episode.

Barry just wants to hug Oliver. 

[cambridgeguy]

Diggle was on stage when the new POTUS congratulated them all on saving the world.  I certainly hope he had a chat with her about his current problems.  I think she'd automatically believe his story over the official one considering his actions during these crossover episodes.  At the very least saving the world should earn you a pardon.

[dtissagirl]

Loved the LOT episode. Loved loved loved it, it was an hour of television that felt like it was designed to wish-fulfill everything I've ever wanted from/to/by these characters. Pretty sure this is my favorite episode of all of DCTV ever. Yays.

[bijoux]

Cut dialogue from the LoT episode.

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/804555933028216832?s=09

[Velocity23]

HH numbers for LOT

Quote

8:00 p.m.
ABC – “A Charlie Brown Christmas” (R): 3.9/ 6 (#3)
CBS – “The Big Bang Theory”: 9.5/15 (#1)
NBC – Football Night in Minnesota: 5.7/10 (#2)
Fox – “Rosewood”: 2.4/ 4 (#t)
CW – “D.C.’s Legends of Tomorrow”: 2.4/ 4 (#4t)

8:30 p.m.
ABC – “A Charlie Brown Christmas” (R): 3.9/ 6 (#3)
CBS – “The Great Indoors”: 4.5/ 7 (#2)
NBC – NFL Football (Dallas Cowboys at Minnesota Vikings): 9.6/16 (#1)
Fox – “Rosewood”: 2.4/ 4 (#t)
CW – “D.C.’s Legends of Tomorrow”: 2.4/ 4 (#4t)

9:00 p.m.
ABC – “The Great American Baking Show” (season premiere): 3.2/ 5 (#3)
CBS – “Mom”: 4.5/ 7 (#2)
NBC – NFL Football (Dallas Cowboys at Minnesota Vikings): 11.2/18 (#1)
Fox – “Pitch”: 1.8/ 3 (#4)
CW – “Supernatural”: 1.3/ 2 (#5)

9:30 p.m.
ABC – “The Great American Baking Show” (season premiere): 3.1/ 5 (#3)
CBS – “Life in Pieces”: 4.1/ 7 (#2)
NBC – NFL Football (Dallas Cowboys at Minnesota Vikings): 10.8/17 (#1)
Fox – “Pitch”: 1.9/ 3 (#4)
CW – “Supernatural”: 1.2/ 2 (#5)

http://programminginsider.com/network/dallas-cowboys-victory-lifts-nbc-thursday-victory/

[insomniadreams88]

6 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I think for me the reason Felicity feels like an after thought is what she did in the crossover held no emotional weight. There were some funny lines and gags and I loved her expressions and her acting choices, but there were not any what I'd call memorable moments from Felicity.  (except for Flashback Felicity).  

She's barely been allowed to worry or be concerned about anything this year (her Havenrock story line was blink and you miss it) and not at all during the crossover, well except over Cisco being mad at Barry.  This isn't how Felicity behaves.  She cares about people. She's invested.  She has ups and downs.  Felicity acts lately like she's on mood stabilizers where she's not feeling or reacting to anything really, just doing the job and putting on the funny front and I think that's why I feel so disconnected from Arrow this year.

 I'm not getting emotional beats anymore from her.  And IMO for most of the series, Felicity always was the emotional touchstone of the show. The show set the tone for a scene or an episode in how she reacted  or set up a space for others to react, but now she reacts really to nothing and the majority of any emotional beats are coming from the boobs who I'm completely not connected to.     

I'm honestly hoping that this is because of whatever has yet to come for Felicity, and they're hoping that by having her like this in 5A/crossover, they feel they can do whatever they want with her in 5B without criticism. (I'm not holding my breath.)

I was pleasantly surprised that they took the time to have Felicity talk to Cisco about Barry on the Waverider, but mostly only because I didn't expect them to fix the Barry/Cisco friendship on Legends of Tomorrow instead of The Flash because that's assuming people will watch all parts of the crossover. Those who didn't will probably be surprised they're friends again in The Flash's midseason finale. 

4 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Wished there was a Felicity, Kara and Barry scene. 

One thing that makes me so sad though, I remember Felicity and Oliver being sort of background couple-y in the crossover last year (well before the lie that blew them up into smithereens). The Hawks plot was crap and I enjoyed this year's one so much more but I'm so sad that they are nothing to each other now. Not a thing.  Whoosh, gone.

Like my head cannon can see Felicity chatting with Ray, catching up and that they are now comfortable friends (which makes me smile) but when I see Felicity and Oliver there is no interaction. It's like they are nothing now. I don't even know if they are friends anymore. I'd wager she's more comfortable with Ray and Cisco *runs off and cries her little shippy heart out*

Agree, with all of this. A Felicity/Kara/Barry scene would have been so good. Also wish that Winn could have come along for Felicity/Cisco/Winn and Alex for Alex/everyone. 

It's like they're trying too hard not to have Oliver and Felicity and even Felicity and Diggle interact at this point. Oliver and Diggle returned from being abducted by aliens, and there wasn't even a "hello" for them? A "thank God you're okay" moment? Even a "what was the ship like?" if they didn't want it to be emotional whatsoever? 

It also bugged me that the only moment we got between Felicity and Sara was that side-hug as they walked off in The Flash's episode. And that we didn't even see a moment of Sara realizing/finding out that Diggle named his daughter after her. (Maybe Barry never knew that they named her after her? Would be a way to avoid that. But I'd been waiting for that since they brought Sara back to life and nothing.) 

[tv echo]

‘Invasion!’ Was Fun. Here’s How The Next DC TV Crossover Can Be Better
Alan Sepinwall  Dec. 1, 2016
http://uproxx.com/sepinwall/legends-of-tomorrow-invasion-review-flash-arrow-supergirl/

Quote

On the whole, I would call “Invasion!” a creative success. It’s fun to have all these characters together, bouncing off each other in pairings both familiar (Cisco/Felicity, Oliver/Barry) and new (Heat Wave and “Skirt”), for both banter and fighting. If the CW plans to do the four-way crossovers annually, I can see it working.

That said, there’s definitely room for improvement for next time out:

1. Supergirl needs to be more involved.
... Oliver asking Supergirl to take a step back from things felt like the Berlanti-verse creative team trying to justify why they weren’t using her more, rather than something Oliver the genius tactician (who trusts Barry implicitly, and thus would trust someone Barry vouched for) would actually do in this circumstance.

2. There needs to be more balance between the crossover and the needs of the individual shows, or else it needs to be all-crossover the whole way.
Doing the crossover in the week that Arrow was celebrating its 100th episode wasn’t ideal timing. As an episode of TV, that was easily the best any of the four series had to offer this week — the Green Arrow version of Alan Moore’s famous “For the Man Who Has Everything” story, more or less — and was a nice trip down memory lane for the show that kicked off this whole TV franchise. But there was so much emphasis on Oliver and the others moving through this dream world that the “Invasion!” storyline as a whole felt like an afterthought.
*  *  * 
3. Ideally, find ways for less to be more.
*  *  *
* Even if we’re on the road to getting Fun Cisco back, I’m still mostly frustrated with how the creative team handled both Flashpoint and its aftermath. I groaned when Cisco came to realize that he, too, had potentially made things worse by going back in time — especially since the two situations aren’t comparable (Cisco didn’t go back intending to change things; Barry did) — as it felt like the path of least resistance towards getting back to the friendship status quo, letting Barry off the hook rather than letting him redeem himself. (Though, to be fair, he was willing to sacrifice himself to save the planet before the other heroes told him not to.) But it’s also tough to make this such a key part of a crossover involving a team of superheroes who regularly travel into the past and make small alterations to history without upending the space-time continuum.
*  *  *
* Great nerd in-joke: Felicity, her language center temporarily scrambled by the trip back in time, blurts out a link from “Darmok,” the classic Star Trek: The Next Generation episode about Picard learning to communicate with an alien race that speaks only in metaphor.

Edited December 2, 2016 by tv echo

[SmallScreenDiva]

50 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

I wonder if personality wise they are trying to go the Heatwave route with Rene/Wild Dog but Rick Gonzalez doesn't come off as well as Dominic Purcell.  Heatwave calling Felicity Ponytail doesn't grate near as much as Rene calling her Blondie.  I think it's all in the delivery.

I think you’re right about Arrow trying to do Mick with Wild Dong, but it’s not working. Mick comes off as gruff, WD is just annoying AF. It’s the character, the delivery and the reaction, too, I think. Like when Mick called Kara a “skirt” there was a brief shot of Sara looking exasperated but also kind of smiling, telling the audience that yeah, this is sort of Mick’s thing. With WD, when he calls people nicknames you get the sense they’re annoyed (like with Evelyn). And with Felicity, she explicitly told him to stop calling her “blondie.”

[tv echo]

I enjoyed LoT 207 quite a lot.  Some of my favorite moments...

Felicity: "This ship is -"
Cicso: "Automatic?"
Felicity: "Supersonic."
Cisco: "Hypnotic."
Felicity and Cisco (simultaneously): "Funky fresh."

Mick: "Ponytail, you're staying on the ship."
Felicity: (speaking gibberish)
Nate: "I'll take that as, 'Have fun storming the castle'."
Cisco: "Oh, for real? You're gonna use 'Princess Bride' against me? Against me?"

Felicity: "Hoo-yeah! Y'all call for tech support?"
Mick: "Great. Saved by geeks."

Felicity (over comms): "This looks like a job for Supergirl."
Barry (over comms): "Thanks, Felicity. I'm not the least bit insulted."
Felicity (over comms): "Ah, sorry. I meant Supergirl and Flash. This is totally a job for the both of you. That's what I meant. Supergirl and... Flash."

Mick (to Kara): "Call me." 

Sara: "It's weird to think that all of this started with the two of us. You ever think what it would be like if we never got on that boat?"
Oliver: "I don't know if I have to think about it. I mean, maybe the Dominators showed us what our lives would have been like."
Sara: "I know it was a prison, but in a way -"
Oliver: "In a way, it was a gift." (They hug)
Sara: "Stay out of trouble." (Leaves)

Barry: "Superspeed Arrow duels... Our lives aren't exactly normal."
Oliver: "I told Kara that I was looking to reclaim some normal. Thinking on it now, I'm - I'm not so sure."
Barry: "I know what you mean. We both got a look at what life would look like normal."
Oliver: "It would've been happy."
Barry: "But not full."
Oliver: "No. No, nowhere close."
Barry: "To things not being normal."
Oliver: "To life being full."

Edited December 2, 2016 by tv echo

[Trini]

6 hours ago, bijoux said:

Isn't the Legion of Doom the LoT nemesis this season? I don't think they will leave them undefeated.

All of them were defeated already at some point, but yet, here they are; so I think it's still possible. Also maybe they do it with different villains.

[Velocity23]

1.1 and 3.3 mil viewers for LOT

[Morrigan2575]

That's about what I expected.

[tv echo]

12 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

That reminds me....wasn't there a spoiler about Ray's brother appearing on Arrow this season?   Help! Am I hallucinating again?  It seems like I remember some discussion about this, but I can't place it.

Ask Ausiello: Spoilers on Bates, Arrow, Grey's Anatomy, Chicago Fire, Legends, Last Man on Earth and More
By Michael Ausiello / May 5 2016, 10:03 AM PST
http://tvlinecom/2016/05/05/bates-motel-season-4-norma-vera-farmiga-norman-spoilers/

Quote

Question: Anything on my new obsession, Legends of Tomorrow? —Clay
Ausiello: Remember how Ray mentioned that he has a brother named Sydney, who must have gone on to work for Felicity Smoak? We asked Arrow/Legends exec producer Marc Guggenheim if said sibling will pop up in Star City. “[He] is a potential Arrow character,” Guggenheim confirms. “[But] we’ve actually been talking about seeing [Sydney] in Legends Season 2.” (For the record, Ray and Syd are not twins, the EP clarifies. They just happen to have “an uncanny similarity,” as evidenced by that Brandon Routh-like bust.)

Edited December 2, 2016 by tv echo

[quarks]

Interjection here on all of the "Arrow writers, learn from the Legends of Tomorrow writers!" stuff.

This is getting increasingly irritating, because not only do all of them work on the same floor in the same building and regularly consult each other and eat lunch together, a solid half of them are Arrow and/or Flash writers. 

Let's review:

1.  Legends of Tomorrow pilot part one: Written by Greg Berlanti (concept/story Supergirl, Flash, Arrow), Andrew Kreisberg (story/script Supergirl, Flash, Arrow), Marc Guggenheim (story/script Arrow), Phil Klemmer (Legends of Tomorrow only).  Totals: 3 past/current Arrow writers; 1 LOT writer.

2. Legends of Tomorrow pilot part two. Same as above.

3. "Blood Ties,", written by Marc Guggenheim (Arrow), Chris Fedak (part of Klemmer's group)

4. "White Knights," written by Sarah Nicole Jones (part of Klemmer's group) and Phil Klemmer

5. "Fail-Safe," written by Beth Schwartz (Arrow) and Grainne Godfree (Flash)

6. "Star City 2046," written by Marc Guggenheim (Arrow) and Ray Utamachitt (Flash)

7. "Marooned," written by Anderson Mackenzie (part of Klemmer's group) and Phil Klemmer

8. "Night of the Hawk," written by Sarah Nicole Jones (Klemmer's group) and Cortney Norris (Flash)

9. "Left Behind," written by Beth Schwartz (Arrow) and Grainne Godfree (Flash)

10. "Progeny," written by Phil Klemmer and Marc Guggenheim.

11. "The Magnificent Eight," written by Greg Berlanti and Marc Guggenheim

12. "Last Refuge," written by Chris Fedak (Klemmer's group) and Matthew Maala (first writing credit)

13. "Leviathan," written by Sarah Nicole Jones (Klemmer's group) and Ray Utamachitt (Flash)

14. "River of Time," written by Cortney Norris (Flash) and Anderson Mackenzie (Klemmer's group)

15. "Destiny," story by Marc Guggenheim (Arrow), written by Phil Klemmer and Chris Fedak (Klemmer)

16. "Legendary," story by Greg Berlanti and Chris Fedak, written by Marc Guggenheim (Arrow) and Phil Klemmer

17. "Out of Time," story by Greg Berlanti and Chris Fedak, written by Marc Guggenheim (Arrow) and Phil Klemmer

18. "The Justice Society of America," written by Sarah Nicole Jones (Klemmer's group) and Chris Fedak (Klemmer's group)

19. "Shogun," written by Phil Klemmer and Grainne Godfree (Flash)

20. "Abominations," written by Marc Guggenheim (Arrow) and Ray Utamachiit (Flash)

21. "Compromised," written by Keto Shimizu (Arrow) and Grainne Godfree (Flash)

22. "Outlaw County," written by Matthew Maala (new guy) and Chris Fedak (Klemmer's group)

23. "Invasion," story by Greg Berlanti, written by Marc Guggenheim (Arrow) and Phil Klemmer.

Phil Klemmer's group, incidentally, followed him from Forever, a show cancelled in its first season.

[wonderwall]

I find it interesting that a lot of the episodes for LoT have been written by the EPs

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Ask Ausiello: Spoilers on Bates, Arrow, Grey's Anatomy, Chicago Fire, Legends, Last Man on Earth and More
By Michael Ausiello / May 5 2016, 10:03 AM PST
http://tvlinecom/2016/05/05/bates-motel-season-4-norma-vera-farmiga-norman-spoilers/

Thank you @tv echo!  That's what I was remembering!

[dtissagirl]

27 minutes ago, quarks said:

Interjection here on all of the "Arrow writers, learn from the Legends of Tomorrow writers!" stuff.

This is getting increasingly irritating, because not only do all of them work on the same floor in the same building and regularly consult each other and eat lunch together, a solid half of them are Arrow and/or Flash writers.

Imo it doesn't matter who's writing Arrow, because it's not really the writers, it's the writing. It's this super concrete no way out decision they made years ago of sticking to flashbacks that steal precious time from the real narrative. On top of these fools wanting to have C- plots on top of the A- and B- plots in present time scenes, because they have too many characters. And then having to end every scene that precedes a flashback in an abrupt enough way that gives editors the proper beat to jump to flashbacks. The utter inflexibility of the structure kills them more than anything else.

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Sara: "It's weird to think that all of this started with the two of us. You ever think what it would be like if we never got on that boat?"

I found this line off-putting because my brain immediately went to "you mean it started with you screwing over your very own sister by screwing her boyfriend?" I just wish they took that out and just went with the "You ever think ..." I mean, they scrubbed the crazy Laurel/Oliver/Sara triangle by emphasizing Sara being lesbian than bi on the Arrow portion of the crossover, why even bring that up again on LOT? Because there's really no other "start" that I could think of that involved only them. 

I'm not as pissed anymore with not having enough Felicity (for me) on Arrow. Still mad because that is the show she belongs to but given how prominent she was on LOT, I'm slightly appeased. And I got a kick out of Felicity helping to save the world yet again. How many times is that now? :) This is one of the many reasons I don’t think Felicity is going away. Berlanti always has a huge role for her in his stories. 

Also, I appreciated Oliver’s story more on rewatch, his conversations with his dad, his parents, even LL and understood why there couldn’t be more Olicity. I just really wish Arrow handled the B-story better. The tone was just off. Reminded me of S3 when they had Felicity and Ray’s rom-com, while the rest of the show was grimdark.

[Starfish35]

38 minutes ago, quarks said:

Interjection here on all of the "Arrow writers, learn from the Legends of Tomorrow writers!" stuff.

This is getting increasingly irritating, because not only do all of them work on the same floor in the same building and regularly consult each other and eat lunch together, a solid half of them are Arrow and/or Flash writers. 

That's not the point.  I think we're all aware that the shows share some of the same writers, and at the very least that MG works on both Arrow and LoT.  My point was that I personally appreciate how LoT makes a conscious effort to mix up their cast interactions, and it's something I think would improve Arrow quite a bit, instead of having them constantly locked into the same character interactions all the time.  Shake things up!  Move the pieces around the board.  But for whatever reason, even if it is some of the same writers, it doesn't seem to be  something they are comfortable doing. 

[statsgirl]

The time taken by the flashbacks is a problem.

But it doesn't explain why we got s 1-4 Felicity on the Flash and LoT episodes of Invasion but the Arrow part had the version of Felicity, who is the blonde ditzy girlfriend.  That was especially true in the "real" non-dream Felicity.  MG and WM apparently think that having her on screen is enough, while the writing in The Flash and LoT was the Felicity I want to see.

Same writers, so what's happening?