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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
in Arrow

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quarks

quarks

I guess..it's worse when they said something similar in a previous ep..like they wouldn't be as effective without Felicity.

I don't need to hear that on Flash as well.

 

 

Given that this was also the episode where Team Arrow showed up on Flash because Felicity couldn't accomplish something (Boomerang stuff) and the same episode where Felicity asked for forensic assistance, and the episode where Oliver needed Wells, Joe and Caitlin to help him take down rage-infused Barry, I'm ok with this.  

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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

My very favorite [FAVORITE!] thing about the episode was Felicity and Caitlin BFFing. How Caitlin promptly gave Felicity the sweater, how happy they were to have each other to talk to, Felicity asking Caitlin for help with the DNA, THAT ADORABLE HUG!

 

tumblr_nfzhu6nEKL1rq49qyo6_250.gif

 

I'm so glad, and so grateful for this. Bechdel Test passing while advancing overall arcs of another show. That's a feat, The Flash. Congrats.

Edited by dancingnancy
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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

I hope AK and GB come back and fix this show because MG is NOT doing a good job running Arrow alone. 

 

Trade-sies!  Flash needs to darken up next season, right??  They can have Guggenheim and we will take Kreisberg back as Arrow definitely needs to lighten up.

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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

Oh, it's very consistent. Still makes me want to slap Oliver. Honestly, anyone he gives advice to should listen, nod politely, and when it's over do the exact opposite of whatever he said.

 

Not only that, but he was the one who convinced Barry he should sign up for the hero gig in the first place, almost right after his "realization" that he couldn't be both The Arrow and Oliver Queen. It was advice-giving malpractice not to warn Barry in advance that being a hero meant he could never be happy with the woman he loves. Idiot.

 

Trade-sies!  Flash needs to darken up next season, right??  They can have Guggenheim and we will take Kreisberg back as Arrow definitely needs to lighten up.

 

At a certain point during the episode, I realized I'd be perfectly content with having Team Arrow go to The Flash permanently. They could leave Starling City to Arsenal, Black, Canary, the Atom, and all the other overnight superheroes that are popping up there lately.

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thuganomics85

thuganomics85

Adjusted ratings for last night's crossover: 4.34 million; 1.6 in the 18-49 demo.  Really curious to see how tonight's episode will fare, and if the ratings uptick will continue.  Either way, I have a feeling we will be seeing Ollie and Barry cross paths again sometime in the future.

 

Overall, I thought last night was pretty fun, although I do wish we got more Diggle (again!)  Ollie/Barry were great, and I really liked seeing more of Felicity/Caitlin, but Diggle didn't do much.  I really would have liked to see him have scenes with Joe or Wells, since I think David Ramesy would have shined opposite of Jesse L. Martin and/or Tom Canvanagh.

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

Does anyone find it ironic that Oliver basically said the hero doesn't get the girl, when the hero always gets the girl??? Oh Oliver.

 

Depends what sort of hero we're talking about. There's the romantic hero, who slays the dragon, wins the heart and hand of the princess and lives happily ever after. And there's the tragic hero who gives up everything he holds dear to save the day, and never gets the recognition for it. Guess which type Oliver thinks he is.

 

Both can be powerful dramatically, in different ways. And there is an undeniable appeal to the bittersweet idea of the guy saving the day but losing what he wanted most. That he just doesn't get to have it all, because life isn't fair. Robin Hobb's Farseer Trilogy forever ingrained that in my mind. Trouble is, when the writing isn't good enough, it just ends up being overwrought and melodramatic, with cheap angst and contrived plot elements to prevent the hero from seeing any other route.

 

And the most tragic thing about a tragic hero is that he doesn't believe he's tragic, until it's too late. He believes he will get the girl and wear the crown. It's the crushing of those dreams that sells the tragedy. If he's a complete pessimist from the outset, then he just gets really tiresome and maudlin. Sound like anyone we know?

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Password

Password

Felicity wanted team Arrow, and specifically Oliver to help Barry catch the metahuman. She was telling him he should and being persistent, going as far as to say Barry defended Oliver against Wells' and Joe's accusations that the Arrow is a crazy killer.

Then Oliver stops and smiles and says "you're going to hock me until I help Barry aren't you?" Felicity smiles and says "yes, I'm a hocker."

The entire scene, from Iris fangirling over Oliver, to Felicity and Oliver's intense stare down is pure gold.

I'm not sure that hock/hawk thing was confirmed?

No but it sure makes me smile.

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Raja

Raja

As a shared universe it just doesn't work like the MCU. On the crossover with the Flash mob joking about Arrow caves and Arrow mobile you are left to think that to them Batman is Adam West.

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

(edited)

Found this (I've been looking it up because it was really bothering me not knowing what the hell the word was): Hock: to bother incessantly, to break, or nag.

 

What I don't understand is why they didn't just use nag? Or was that too negative? Like they didn't want Felicity to actually say "I'm a nagger." I wouldn't have a problem with it just because of the context of the conversation and the way the actors were playing it (playfully).

 

https://yiddishwordsoftheweek.wordpress.com/tag/hock/

Edited by SmallScreenDiva
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ohjoy

ohjoy

I don't know if it matters one way or the other, but my Closed Caption definitely spelled "hock", not "hawk". I assumed it meant something like nagging or aggravating, but didn't know it was a Yiddish term. As if I didn't love that entire scene to itty bitty smithereens even before knowing that. (For some reason, Oliver's, "Felicity? This is me, noticing you staring," just slays me right from the get-go. It's a drug, I tell you.)

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Trini

Trini

I found a definition that I hadn't thought of that could make "hawk" make sense.

 

As a verb, hawk means (1) to sell goods, especially noisily or aggressively [on the street]

 

 

Found this (I've been looking it up because it was really bothering me not knowing what the hell the word was): Hock: to bother incessantly, to break, or nag.

 

What I don't understand is why they didn't just use nag? Or was that too negative? Like they didn't want Felicity to actually say "I'm a nagger." I wouldn't have a problem with it just because of the context of the conversation and the way the actors were playing it (playfully).

 

https://yiddishwordsoftheweek.wordpress.com/tag/hock/

 

Hmmm; the scene works either way you spell it.

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thuganomics85

thuganomics85

(edited)

Called that wrong.  I was leaning more towards Alexandra Daddario, because I felt like she was getting a bit more recognition lately, and was more conventionally good-looking.  I liked Krysten Ritter a lot on both Breaking Bad and Don't Trust the B--- in Apartment 23, but she certainly wasn't the direction I figured they'd go in.  I guess we'll see.

 

Although, I'm already getting a kick out of the Apartment 23 jokes about how Dreama Walker should now play Squirrel Girl, and James Van Der Beek should just play himself again, for no real reason.

Edited by thuganomics85
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calliope1975

calliope1975

Although, I'm already getting a kick out of the Apartment 23 jokes about how Dreama Walker should now play Squirrel Girl, and James Van Der Beek should just play himself again, for no real reason.

 

I was thinking maybe Anna Kendrick for Squirrel Girl, but I would watch your version. I hated Dawson but ended up loving JVDB on Apt 23.

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Trini

Trini

Just me, or are there now way too many people who know about both Arrow and the Flash's secret identities? Of course I loved the two teams working together, but in the back of mind I kept thinking "This could be a huge liability".

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KirkB

KirkB

(edited)
Just me, or are there now way too many people who know about both Arrow and the Flash's secret identities? Of course I loved the two teams working together, but in the back of mind I kept thinking "This could be a huge liability".

 

Who knows the Arrow's identity: Felicity, Diggle, Laurel, Roy, Lyla, Nyssa, Ra's, Waller, Slade, Malcolm, Barry, Cisco, Caitlin, Wells, Joe.

Who knows the Flash's identity: Oliver, Felicity, Diggle, Roy, Lyla, Cisco, Wells, Caitlin, Joe.

 

Yeah, that's bound to come back and bite them at some point.

Edited by KirkB
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Sakura12

Sakura12

I love how the writers say they don't like writing the secret identity aspect of the show. Why are they wearing funny costumes if you don't care about hiding their identity then? Almost all the villains know Oliver's the Arrow so it's kind of pointless for him to wear a hood that limits his vision when he doesn't have too. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I love how the writers say they don't like writing the secret identity aspect of the show. Why are they wearing funny costumes if you don't care about hiding their identity then? Almost all the villains know Oliver's the Arrow so it's kind of pointless for him to wear a hood that limits his vision when he doesn't have too. 

 

I think they just don't like writing the secret identity aspect as far as the main characters of the show are concerned. I can see how it would be a pain in the ass story wise. Still makes sense for the general public at large to be in the dark about who they are though, since Oliver has committed, like, a ton of murder, and vigilantism is technically against the law.

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La Dee Da

La Dee Da

Who knows the Arrow's identity: Felicity, Diggle, Laurel, Roy, Lyla, Nyssa, Ra's, Waller, Slade, Malcolm, Barry, Cisco, Caitlin, Wells, Joe.

Who knows the Flash's identity: Oliver, Felicity, Diggle, Roy, Lyla, Cisco, Wells, Caitlin, Joe.

 

Yeah, that's bound to come back and bite them at some point.

 

In The Flash crossover episode, when they cut to Wells "politely" smiling while Oliver was talking about the danger to his family and friends if his identity was revealed, it was like Wells was thinking "Great suggestion, Oliver! I will do that to you and/or Barry when it is the most inconvenient either for building relationships or completing missions....ehhhhh, the computer will tell me when I'm supposed to do it."

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wonderwall

wonderwall

I feel like he would :p He's excited, just learned that meta-humans exist, and whatnot. It was a fun scene. It's nice seeing Diggle have fun and have Oliver's back even when he's not there. I understand why Felicity finds it to be ridiculous because she's really close to both Barry and Oliver and they're about to have a showdown. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I feel like it was in-character, especially since he's a soldier, and he knows patience and experience (which Oliver has) is more valuable in the field than the best skills in the world (which Barry has), when you don't know how to read situations and wait them out. Barry doesn't know how to do that yet.

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wingster55

wingster55

But it wasn't a fun situation. I could see him partaking at the end of Arrow 308..but not then. 

 

I feel like it was in-character, especially since he's a soldier, and he knows patience and experience (which Oliver has) is more valuable in the field than the best skills in the world (which Barry has), when you don't know how to read situations and wait them out. Barry doesn't know how to do that yet.

 

That's not what I meant.

(Also Barry's speed isn't just "skills") 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

But it wasn't a fun situation. I could see him partaking at the end of Arrow 308..but not then.

That's not what I meant.

(Also Barry's speed isn't just "skills")

Skill, superpower, whatever. My point is still applicable regardless of what words I use to describe what he can do.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

I felt it was about belief and confidence in Oliver's ability to do what they needed him toe do which was first distract Barry and then in a key moment to restrain him long enough to use the flashy light on him.  I didn't really feel like Diggle was doing any kind of playful speculation like Cisco was doing.  He was just stating his facts as he knew them and I found that very Diggle. 

 

Felicity on the other hand was focused on the fact that both of them could hurt the other one so all she could do was worry. 

Edited by BkWurm1
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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

In watching that scene again because I honestly forgot how it played out, I agree with BkWurm1. Diggle wasn't having fun nor was he messing around with Cisco. I think Cisco/Caitlin were making light of the situation because they don't understand the true danger that Oliver faced. Well, they haven't faced mortality yet because that's something they do and finally understand in the Arrow episode. Diggle was just maintaining that even when one has superpowers, that's not all it takes to be a fighter, it takes strategy, experience, and creativity all of which Barry didn't really have. 

 

Diggle was essentially having Oliver's back without him being there. I think that's cool. While Felicity, on the other hand, didn't want to be a part of that conversation because both of her friends were in trouble. Although I do feel like she was more worried about Oliver (I mean it makes sense, he can't really heal quickly). 

 

Plus, Diggle doesn't express that much concern when Oliver is out in the field, not as much as Felicity so it makes sense why he was cool and calm whilst Oliver was going head to head with Barry. 

Edited by wonderwall
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wingster55

wingster55

In watching that scene again because I honestly forgot how it played out, I agree with BkWurm1. Diggle wasn't having fun nor was he messing around with Cisco. I think Cisco/Caitlin were making light of the situation because they don't understand the true danger that Oliver faced.

 

Caitlin was more factual I feel.

 

Well, they haven't faced mortality yet

 

Yes they have. Plastique anyone? Ronnie Raymond? (perceived dead) 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

Caitlin was more factual I feel.

 

Yes they have. Plastique anyone? Ronnie Raymond? (perceived dead) 

I meant they themselves haven't had to face the dangers of the lives that they lead. Yes, Caitlin had to deal with Ronnie dying, but that was because of a freak accident with the particle accelerator and not because of the crime fighting life that Caitlin herself chose to pursue. It's something that Caitlin as well as Cisco figured out in the Arrow episode. That fighting crime is not a game and that real lives can be put into danger. Something they didn't fully comprehend when Oliver was going against Barry.

 

Also, you can be factual and still make light of a situation :p Her tone suggests she was trying to make it a competition. Diggle's tone didn't 

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KirkB

KirkB

(edited)

Okay, a story set on Krypton is not a bad idea. If you haven't read deep into the comics you probably don't know much beyond that's where Superman came from and it blew up so I guess there could be some interesting stories to tell. And by doing Kal's grandfather instead of his dad, you have plenty of time to tell those stories before Krypton starts to have issues. In any event, maybe this is an indication the SyFy people were actually serious about doing, you know, sci fi again.

Edited by KirkB
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