Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Sakura12]

Flash doesn't know how to write any female characters (unless they are cheerleaders for the men in their lives). If you want a fun date night with Olicity and WestAllen they are better off having the Legends writers handle that and have the Legends drop them off in a time period of their choosing for their date.  As a LoT fan I don't care about either couple, but I know the LoT writers would at least make it fun for everyone. 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Sakura12

[Velocity23]

Quote

When asked about Deathstroke specifically, who is played on the show by Manu Bennett, Guggenheim revealed the character is currently off the table.

"Yeah, I think you know as a result we've been on and off," Guggenheim said. "For a time they were saying 'you can't use Deathstroke', and that changed and we were able to have Slade Wilson back on the show, and now we're back to 'you can't use him'. They're working on the feature film version, it really is sort of now that you've got obviously Slade, spoiler alert, Deathstroke appears at the end of the Justice League movie."

While it meant that Slade is off limits (at least for awhile), Guggenheim and Bennett both like what Joe is doing.

[Cleanqueen]

As someone who has always loved and wanted more of the Iris and Felicity relationship I am truly hurt at how the Flash writers chose to write that relationship this season. The girls night episode showed that Felicity was the one who put together the bridle shower for her but the writers chose that opportunity to then make it out about Caitlin being her MOH, and in the wedding you wouldn't even know what purpose she served because Caitlin and Iris didn't even have any scenes. I loved how well the crossover handled the Felicity and Iris relationship and I loved seeing them kickass. I also loved seeing someone for once console Felicity, because she's always the one consoling others. Then all of that was ruined by the Flash writers by making Iris look bitter over someone interrupting a ceremony(NOT a wedding) and then choosing to return a pretty expensive gift. TO me that scene was OOC because that isn't who Iris is.

I still want Iris and Felicity to have a relationship but I dont want it to be on The Flash, another issue is that the Iris/Felicity relationship only serves the Flash but not the other show. So I would like for Iris to perhaps guest star on Arrow and have one on one time with Felicity. I think Candice and Emily have great chemistry and their real life friendship has a lot to do with that so I am still hopeful that the f*ck up the flash writers created can still be repaired. 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Cleanqueen

[Primal Slayer]

Lol I thought DC grew out of this embargoing phase a while ago. Still remember when they would embargo cartoon characters because they had live action plans for them. We aint gonna be seing JMs Deathstroke anytime in 2018 so whats the use of embargoing the character this early on.

[Featherhat]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

Flash doesn't know how to write any female characters (unless they are cheerleaders for the men in their lives). If you want a fun date night with Olicity and WestAllen they are better off having the Legends writers handle that and have the Legends drop them off in a time period of their choosing for their date.  As a LoT fan I don't care about either couple, but I know the LoT writers would at least make it fun for everyone. 

Yeah I think "Girls Night Out" vs "Helen Hunt" proved that. Even if for nothing else I'd rather Felicity never show up for a solo crossover on The Flash again than watch that #feminism complete mess again. 

It's really annoying that a total of a minute of this storyline has taken over so much attention in the fandom for understandable reasons on all sides but 99% of it was actually really good. 

And Caitlin's storyline was much better in the crossover as well and didn't feature most of her male friends being obnoxious assholes whilst the villains gave her actual pep talks, I'd vote for her coming on to Waverider for a bit after Firestorm and CC have left but doesn't look likely. 

Quote

"Yeah, I think you know as a result we've been on and off," Guggenheim said. "For a time they were saying 'you can't use Deathstroke', and that changed and we were able to have Slade Wilson back on the show, and now we're back to 'you can't use him'. They're working on the feature film version, it really is sort of now that you've got obviously Slade, spoiler alert, Deathstroke appears at the end of the Justice League movie."  

Well JL hasn't done so well, do we know if it's still in the current list of movies they're committed to doing? If they're OK with two Flashes (ok that rakes in a lot of cash so I get it) and two Superman versions done just after BvS had been released although not gone on to great heights, critically or really commercially and were filming a JL which turned out to have way more Supes than was thought, why wouldn't they be ok with DS or for that matter DeadShot or anyone else? Unlike Marvel I'm only interested to see many of this "less known" characters they're embargoing for potential movies because they've been shown on the CWDCTV-Verse.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Featherhat

[SmallScreenDiva]

10 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Returning a gift is nothing.

Returning a gift is rude. At least that's what I was taught. You grin and bear the bad gifts (then you stash them in the back of your closet until you have an opportunity to donate to the Salvation Army, Goodwill or know the only person in the world who wants the puke green designer bag with all the sparkles that your aunt gave you) :P

46 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Awesome! 

[apinknightmare]

In my experience, returning wedding/baby shower/holiday gifts to the store is fairly common - that's why a lot of places ask if you want a gift receipt. I mean, returning it to the giver would be incredibly rude, but I got the sense that Barry and Iris were just going to take them back to wherever they were purchased from, which I don't really have a problem with. It could get a little awkward if Felicity or Oliver asked about it, but they don't seem like the types who would. 

[Sakura12]

The movie DC side really shouldn't be limiting any characters now that Justice League lost them a ton of money. It still doesn't make any sense, the audience can handle having two different actors play two different versions of their characters. 

[Primal Slayer]

23 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Returning a gift is rude. At least that's what I was taught. You grin and bear the bad gifts (then you stash them in the back of your closet until you have an opportunity to donate to the Salvation Army, Goodwill or know the only person in the world who wants the puke green designer bag with all the sparkles that your aunt gave you) :P 

So what's the difference between returning a gift to a store then donating it or giving it away to someone else? Either way it is not in your possession anymore. 

[catrox14]

15 hours ago, Mary0360 said:

It's unfortunate that the fandom reaction to the crossover has basically killed any possible desire for future interaction between Olicity and WestAllen as friends and double date partners. I rather they stay away from each other going forward. If this were to happen on the show I'm sure it'd be fun and cute and enjoyable. But it'd be followed by many outraged tweets about Olicity being terrible friends and people for butting into WestAllens date night or for just deciding to leave the fair and kill any enjoyment I previously had.  Fandom has ruined an Olicity and WestAllen friendship for me now which is sad. 

I'm not even blaming it on fandom. It's the Flash writers that made it this way

If Felicity and Oliver were not members of the original wedding party, I wouldn't be annoyed with Iris for being IMO a jerk about the espresso machine. But they were close enough for her to be included and also understanding I presume that maybe they had more going on with saving the world etc than worrying whether she got something off the registry or not. 

It's awful writing and it has no organic point for existing and not even the sudden ceremony interruption IMO accounts for Iris' bitter attitude towards her. If they wanted it to be a comedic moment they could have had Iris call Felicity, her close friend who they just faced Nazis together, and tease her about "Hey, girl. What you couldn't read the registry? And tell her they have all the coffee and she's going to exchange it for a waffle iron or something.

Like there is a way to handle that with humor and still maintain a friendship.   That was written for plot but it didn't have to be that way to get Barry to open the box with the knife. Literally that was IMO to show that Barry is the mellow one who doesn't care about wedding gifts cause he has much bigger problems at hand than a petty wedding gift.

Fuck the Flash writers for that.

[Primal Slayer]

Iris never broke a friendship, it's still being maintained. Can't wait to see them together again next year.

[calliope1975]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

It's awful writing and it has no organic point for existing and not even the sudden ceremony interruption IMO accounts for Iris' bitter attitude towards her. If they wanted it to be a comedic moment they could have had Iris call Felicity, her close friend who they just faced Nazis together, and tease her about "Hey, girl. What you couldn't read the registry? And tell her they have all the coffee and she's going to exchange it for a waffle iron or something.

Yep. Even if the scene was still only Barry and Iris, it could have been charmingly comedic instead of bitter. So, I'll take a cue from Iris, and bitterly not want WA anywhere near Olicity for some time. 

[Primal Slayer]

21 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

The movie DC side really shouldn't be limiting any characters now that Justice League lost them a ton of money. It still doesn't make any sense, the audience can handle having two different actors play two different versions of their characters. 

I wonder if perhaps they have some plans for Deathstroke for Suicide Squad 2 because that is the only thing I can see him showing up in so soon.

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Iris never broke a friendship, it's still being maintained. Can't wait to see them together again next year.

Iris didn't break a friendship because AFAIK, Felicity doesn't know about Iris' bitterness that was pulled out of the Flash writers asses. I don't recollect her telling Felicity to her face that she was pissed about the wedding interruption or the gift "faux pas".  Or did I miss that discussion.  But the writers put Iris in the position of looking more petty than necessary. If they had included the deleted scene with Ralphy Douchebag, then her whole attitude would have made more sense because her bitterness could have organically been born of hating Ralph and it carried over unnecessarily to Felicity and Oliver. But they didn't include and so canonically, Iris is only pissed at Felicity and it's shitty and it makes me dislike Iris quite a bit. I already dislike Barry so that didn't really alter my opinion of him.

It also makes female friendships look like they don't matter when it comes to a wedding and that does Iris a huge disservice. 

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

That's weird.  I mean, personally I couldn't care less either way, but like @Primal Slayer said, I thought they were done with this "oh, now you can use them...oh now you can't" stuff.  It's never going to make a bit of sense to me in a world where we currently have movie and TV versions of the Flash going on at the same time.  

[SmallScreenDiva]

46 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

So what's the difference between returning a gift to a store then donating it or giving it away to someone else? Either way it is not in your possession anymore. 

 

55 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

In my experience, returning wedding/baby shower/holiday gifts to the store is fairly common - that's why a lot of places ask if you want a gift receipt. I mean, returning it to the giver would be incredibly rude, but I got the sense that Barry and Iris were just going to take them back to wherever they were purchased from, which I don't really have a problem with. It could get a little awkward if Felicity or Oliver asked about it, but they don't seem like the types who would. 

I have to admit, I didn't even think of them returning it to a store. It's just not a thing we do. Do you get money back or store credit? Donating it or giving it away means somebody else finding a use for it. 

Edited December 21, 2017 by SmallScreenDiva

[ComicFan777]

For me, it wasn't returning the gift in itself that was bad - it was the combination of returning the gift and bitter sentiment Iris had that put me off.  Because of this scene and how she didn't tell Felicity she had issues with her, Iris comes across as one of those people who smiles to your face and hates you behind your back.  If they are still friends, I wouldn't know if Iris was a real friend or just one that pretends to be.  I think Felicity deserves a real friend who is upfront with her.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, ComicFan777 said:

For me, it wasn't returning the gift in itself that was bad - it was the combination of returning the gift and bitter sentiment Iris had that put me off.  Because of this scene and how she didn't tell Felicity she had issues with her, Iris comes across as one of those people who smiles to your face and hates you behind your back.  If they are still friends, I wouldn't know if Iris was a real friend or just one that pretends to be.  I think Felicity deserves a real friend who is upfront with her.

Yup. That's what the Flash writers have done to Iris. Were they told to make that choice or do they actually see female friendships that way? Iris is 100% allowed to be pissed at Felicity for whatever reasons. But thus far, to not have her tell Felicity her feelings when they seem to be close enough for Iris to ask her to be a bridesmaid, is incongruous to how Iris has been. Maybe something will come up in future eps but I'm dubious

[apinknightmare]

Personally, I don’t think Iris being snide about the wedding means anything about her and Felicity’s friendship on the long run. She just made a pissy comment about something that probably wasn’t a big enough deal to her to make it a thing between her and Felicity, just something she said privately to her husband because she was in a bad mood. 

[Chaser]

29 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Personally, I don’t think Iris being snide about the wedding means anything about her and Felicity’s friendship on the long run. She just made a pissy comment about something that probably wasn’t a big enough deal to her to make it a thing between her and Felicity, just something she said privately to her husband because she was in a bad mood. 

I agree. Which is why I'm more mad at the writers. Its a real life thing that I don't think was needed at all.

Put in a WA moment instead, don't try and run over another character/show.

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

 

I have to admit, I didn't even think of them returning it to a store. It's just not a thing we do. Do you get money back or store credit? Donating it or giving it away means somebody else finding a use for it. 

Well techinically somebody else finds a use for it if you return it to the store as well lol.

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Yup. That's what the Flash writers have done to Iris. Were they told to make that choice or do they actually see female friendships that way? Iris is 100% allowed to be pissed at Felicity for whatever reasons. But thus far, to not have her tell Felicity her feelings when they seem to be close enough for Iris to ask her to be a bridesmaid, is incongruous to how Iris has been. Maybe something will come up in future eps but I'm dubious

It's a big difference if Iris just gets it off her chest to her husband and moves on then if she holds a grudge or is talking to various people about it. I doubt the girl cares that much in the long run to hold a grudge or become bitter towards Felicity. 

[catrox14]

11 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Well techinically somebody else finds a use for it if you return it to the store as well lol.

It's a big difference if Iris just gets it off her chest to her husband and moves on then if she holds a grudge or is talking to various people about it. I doubt the girl cares that much in the long run to hold a grudge or become bitter towards Felicity. 

Except that she literally said, entirely sarcastically, "But , I'm not bitter," which absolutely means she was bitter and had been since the quickie wedding in the park and it was compounded by the offence she took at the gift. It was done without Felicity and Oliver  there to either defend themselves or be given the chance to make amends for infractions that didn't exist unitl they did. It's whiplash characterization IMO.

I mean why not let Barry be the one getting pissed about the park wedding and the gift for a change of pace. He and Oliver have been occasionally antagonistic with each other. And the comedy would be there organically with the groom being more pissed than the bride.

They could let Barry be tainted for being a petty ass for once in his life.

[Primal Slayer]

Being bitter for a hot minute is one thing, becoming bitter towards someone is another. I doubt everytime Iris sees, hears, or thinks of Felicity she'll be going "blondie stole my moment and gave me a bad gift" Nothing went how Iris had planned, she was mad for a second of her life and im sure she is over it.

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Being bitter for a hot minute is one thing, becoming bitter towards someone is another. I doubt everytime Iris sees, hears, or thinks of Felicity she'll be going "blondie stole my moment and gave me a bad gift" Nothing went how Iris had planned, she was mad for a second of her life and im sure she is over it.

Until the Flash shows me that Iris is over it, I'm not going to assume she is given that took precedence over the real problem of Nazis  ruining her actual wedding, not her  friends who at most can be accused of being over eager and a bit self involved in that moment. Iris was pissed at Leo for 20 toasters but she never said she was bitter about that. Nope she was only given the chance to be bitter at Felicity. If the "I'm not bitter was supposed to be "funny" then Candice muffed the delivery but given her proven deftness with comedy previously, I don't think it was supposed to be funny and they wanted her bitterness to be taken seriously.

It was bad writing, bad characterization and wholly unnecessary  to further Barry's plot. Honestly, it says more about the writers than Iris but they put the words in Iris mouth and no one else.

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

Put in a WA moment instead, don't try and run over another character/show.

That's the Flash writers' MO, since they always put down Oliver to prop Barry's special snowflakiness. Not surprising they turned on Felicity too.

[GHScorpiosRule]

49 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Until the Flash shows me that Iris is over it, I'm not going to assume she is given that took precedence over the real problem of Nazis  ruining her actual wedding, not her  friends who at most can be accused of being over eager and a bit self involved in that moment. Iris was pissed at Leo for 20 toasters but she never said she was bitter about that. Nope she was only given the chance to be bitter at Felicity. If the "I'm not bitter was supposed to be "funny" then Candice muffed the delivery but given her proven deftness with comedy previously, I don't think it was supposed to be funny and they wanted her bitterness to be taken seriously.

It was bad writing, bad characterization and wholly unnecessary  to further Barry's plot. Honestly, it says more about the writers than Iris but they put the words in Iris mouth and no one else.

I believe it was Mick and it was for 40 stolen toasters. Anyway.

I'm usually not one to believe in conspiracy theories, nor do I claim to know what goes on in the writers room. But just based on what I've read about how the Flash writing staff didn't like that Barry and Iris wouldn't get married on their own show, but Supergirl/Legends of Tomorrow for the cross-over, but had to accept it, and had known for over a year that's how it would happen, I am most definitely laying this at the feet of the writers who chose to write Iris completely out of character post CrossOver. Just reading how much fighting there is between the two fandoms, I totally believe the writers who wrote "Don't Run" just wanted to drag what was a minute scene, and so not of much importance compared to a Nazi invasion, and add more fuel to that particular fire.

That said, I'm not going to wish and hope that Iris never appears on this show, or that Felicity never shows up on Flash again. Especially since, the way the actors played it, Iris and Barry were encouraging and wanting Felicity and Oliver to marry, and I didn't see any "say whut?" or "are you kidding me?!" looks or words from either Barry or Iris, when Felicity asked if Digg could also marry her and Oliver. I don't know if they were new writers or not, and frankly, don't give enough of a damn to go check; but the same thing happened on another show I watch--brand new writers, unfamiliar with the source material, or didn't even bother to watch or read previous scripts to get a handle on what the characters were like, and wrote a few scenes that were totally antithesis to how the characters would react or say and totally out of character, and I called foul, with the fervent hope they don't ever write another episode again. Even the author wasn't happy about it.

Edited December 21, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I believe it was Mick and it was for 40 stolen toasters. Anyway.

Well, I knew it was one of the two and scores of toasters. My bad.  

[tv echo]

This video was in the ComicBook article (posted upthread), but included more MG comments about Arrow and LoT than what was reported in that article - note that this MG interview took place sometime during ACE Comic Con, which was the weekend of Dec. 9-10, 2017...

The Mutuals Interviews: Marc Guggenheim (During ACE Comic Con)
Published on Dec 17, 2017, by Discussing Film

-- MG first talked about how no one expected Arrow to be so big or to "birth" so many other shows. He called it a "small miracle." When the interviewer noted that the show started out as the show with no powers, MG said: "Yeah, how'd that work out? ... The trick with Arrow is always like, how do we keep it to its roots while at the same time still acknowledging that there's a world now with superheroes, super - you know, superpowered people out there."

-- MG than talked about the evolution of LoT (S1 had problems because they didn't have the show "figured out"). Now they go "full crazy" with it. Interviewer mentioned that when Young Stein used the bow and arrow, we hear the Arrow theme for a moment. MG was glad that people caught that.

-- On not being able to use Suicide Squad in S3 of Arrow, MG: "We were basically told, you know, we got other plans for Suicide Squad, so, uh, particularly Deadshot, so that's why we, you know, sort of did what we did... Look, these are DC's characters. We're just renting them, you know. So we use the characters that they tell us we can use, when we can use them, and we work around whatever limitations that places us."

-- On using Deathstroke and how the film version has been on and off, MG: "Yeah, I think, you know, as a result, we've been on and off. Uh, you know, for a time they were saying, we - 'you can't use Deathstroke.' Then that changed and we were able to have, you know, Slade Wilson back on the show. And now we're back to...  'you can't use him'... Well, they're working on the feature film version. It really is sort of - now that you've got, you know, obviously Slade - spoiler alerts - Deathstroke appears at the end of the Justice League movie... You know, it [spears?-unintelligible word] these intervals. We try to take advantage of our opportunities when we have them."

-- On using Booster Gold, MG said that Greg Berlanti and Andrew Kreisberg were working on a Booster Gold movie, but because MG wasn't involved, he doesn't know the status of it.

-- Regarding the Green Lantern movie experience, MG said that, "at the end of the day... we weren't the ultimate authors" of that movie. They did several script drafts, but it went off to another writer, and the movie then got produced, out of their control.

-- MG said that he isn't involved with Flash or Supergirl.

-- MG again mentioned that Vic Sage would be a "really great fit with the tone of Arrow." However, MG then said: "Again, it's not our character, it's DC's characters. They've got other plans for The Question, which is awesome... ((Interviewer: "They do have other plans?") ... Well, if they didn't - I don't know what their plans are, but clearly they do have other plans; otherwise, we'd be using him."

-- On the then current status of Arrow and LoT, MG: "Arrow, we are breaking episode 615. We're shooting episode 613. Um, Legends, we are shooting - we're just starting to shoot 313, and we have - we're breaking 316. Uh, so we're a little farther ahead on Legends." [tv echo: Remember, this interview took place on Dec. 9 or 10, 2017.]

-- On whether they have ideas for where Arrow and LoT are going to go next, if they get greenlit, MG: "We actually do. Uh, we do. We know how the seasons for both shows are going to end, and how those endings will set up the next season of each of the shows. So we actually do. We have a plan."

-- On whether they have like a "Marvel Studios master plan" for the two shows, MG: "No. I think it's very hard in television to, like, you know, have a master plan in terms of how many years out... Television works on a different kind of time horizon than features does. Um, that said, you know, I think we have a clear vision as to what we want to do next year on both of the shows. And, um, that's nice... you know, we don't have official pick-ups yet on either show. But we're very confident that we'll get additional seasons on both shows."

-- MG said that he spends most of his time in Burbank because that's where the writers and post-production are located, but he tries to go up to Vancouver "every six weeks or so."

-- When asked about Sgt. Rock, MG said that he's a "great obvious choice" for LoT. He also said "never say never" and that, since DC hasn't said no, they're just "waiting for the right story."

Edited December 21, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

10 TV Couples We Couldn't Get Enough Of in 2017 on JJJ
20 DECEMBER 2017
http://www.justjaredjr.com/2017/12/20/10-tv-couples-we-couldnt-get-enough-of-in-2017-on-jjj/

Quote

KARA & MON-EL – Supergirl
It was all about that sacrifice, and heart-wrenching reunion.
*  *  *
IRIS WEST & BARRY ALLEN – The Flash
THEY GOT MARRIED!!!
*  *  *
OLIVER & FELICITY – Arrow
They got married too — after a handful of ups and downs in between.

And the number one most searched TV couple was…
KLAUS & CAROLINE – The Vampire Diaries/The Originals

CLARY & SIMON – Shadowhunters
KARA & MON-EL – Supergirl
IRIS WEST & BARRY ALLEN – The Flash
ANDI & JONAH – Andi Mack
MAGNUS & ALEC – Shadowhunters
FRANCIS & MARY – Reign
BETTY & JUGHEAD – Riverdale
BONNIE & ENZO – The Vampire Diaries
OLIVER & FELICITY – Arrow
KLAUS & CAROLINE – The Vampire Diaries/The Originals

Edited December 21, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

This Week's Cover: The Best & Worst of 2017
December 21, 2017 
http://ew.com/news/2017/12/21/best-worst-of-2017-year-end-issue/

The 10 best (and 5 worst) TV shows of 2017
http://ew.com/tv/best-and-worst-shows-2017/2017s-best-and-worst-tv/

Quote

WORST — 5. Marvel's Inhumans
You kept waiting for this expensive flop to get bad enough to be funny, like APB or any superhero movie with Ben Affleck. But across a whole sad season of grimgray production design and hammy bargain-Thrones dialogue, this adaptation of a High Nerd Marvel property never came close to co-creator Stan Lee’s good humor, to say nothing of co-creator Jack Kirby’s riotous imagination. Few strange shows have ever been so boring. Few series ever felt so limited.

2017's Best and Worst Films
http://ew.com/movies/best-and-worst-movies-2017/2017s-best-and-worst-films/

Quote

The Best
10. Wonder Woman
How deliciously ironic that after years of macho doom and gloom in the bloated DC boy’s club, it would take a female hero and a female director to show the fellas how it’s done. With this rousing and long-overdue origin story about the fish-out-of-water Amazonian warrior-princess, Gal Gadot and Patty Jenkins reinvigorated a genre that, too often, feels formulaic and on the verge of running out of juice. Gadot’s sly sense of humor and thousand-watt charisma were practically jumper cables. She became a girl-power icon in a male-fantasy universe—something that wasn’t lost on the legion of teenage girls and their moms in the audience, longing to see themselves reflected back from the silver screen. –Chris Nashawaty

The 10 unforgettable movie scenes of 2017
http://ew.com/movies/best-movie-scenes-2017/the-10-unforgettable-movie-scenes-of-2017

Quote

8.) Loki's play in Thor: Ragnarok
Usually Marvel films save the big cameos for after the credits. But one of the funniest surprises of Thor: Ragnarok came early on when Matt Damon, a friend of star Chris Hemsworth, pops up as an Asgard community-theater actor playing Loki in a production about Loki’s life. What’s the Asgard version of a Tony? —Tim Stack

Edited December 21, 2017 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

4 minutes ago, tv echo said:

But one of the funniest surprises of Thor: Ragnarok came early on when Matt Damon, a friend of star Chris Hemsworth, pops up as an Asgard community-theater actor playing Loki in a production about Loki’s life.

I totally missed this.  Not the play, but the fact that it was Matt Damon.  It wasn't until afterwards that I saw something mentioning him in reference to the movie and I was like "wow really?  How did I miss that one?"  My Bourne fan club membership is officially revoked. Lol.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Starfish35

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 minutes ago, tv echo said:

8.) Loki's play in Thor: Ragnarok
Usually Marvel films save the big cameos for after the credits. But one of the funniest surprises of Thor: Ragnarok came early on when Matt Damon, a friend of star Chris Hemsworth, pops up as an Asgard community-theater actor playing Loki in a production about Loki’s life. What’s the Asgard version of a Tony? —Tim Stack

 

2 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I totally missed this.  Not the play, but the fact that it was Matt Damon.  It wasn't until afterwards when I was reading stuff about it that I saw something mentioning him and I was like "wow really?  How did I miss that one?"

Forget Matt Damon--I recognized him right away.  Who I didn't recognize, and kicked myself for not doing so, was Sam Neill as Actor Odin! Since the only Hemsworth I care about is Chris, I didn't get too excited that his brother Luke, played Actor Thor.

[SmallScreenDiva]

WA is also probably getting the most attention it has gotten ever over this pseudo competition with Olicity so I can also buy that yes, the Flash writers were bitter and used Iris as their mouthpiece, but also wanted to fan the fandom war flames because nobody ever organically talks about their sad little ship.

Edited December 21, 2017 by SmallScreenDiva

[tv echo]

Toronto Star article...

From Atwood to Spacey: TV’s winners and losers in 2017
By TONY WONG  Dec. 21, 2017
https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/television/2017/12/20/from-atwood-to-spacey-tvs-winners-and-losers-in-2017.html

Quote

Loser: Superhero Shows

Did the bubble just burst in the superhero business?

The appetite of viewers at one point seemed endless for shows like Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl and Legends of Tomorrow as well as Gotham and Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

But new entries this season to the increasingly overcrowded genre seem to be failing. NBC’s superhero sitcom Powerless starring Vanessa Hudgens was one of the first casualties. Marvel’s Inhumans and The Gifted debuted to less than stellar viewership.

So are these shows the canary in the mine shaft for audiences suffering from Spandex fatigue? Possibly. But the greater explanation is that these shows were just poor, uninspired TV that suffered from me-too syndrome.

Meanwhile, the intensely dark Gotham, a prequel to Batman, consistently astonishes with a nihilistic vision and savage violence that I’m not sure how a noncable broadcaster manages to finesse. Surpassing Tim Burton’s darkly comic movie vision, it remains the best superhero show on the tube.

Edited December 21, 2017 by tv echo

[calliope1975]

17 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

 

Forget Matt Damon--I recognized him right away.  Who I didn't recognize, and kicked myself for not doing so, was Sam Neill as Actor Odin! Since the only Hemsworth I care about is Chris, I didn't get too excited that his brother Luke, played Actor Thor.

I couldn't place Sam Neill either! I got everyone else right away. I follow Sam on Twitter and now am ashamed. 

[tv echo]

Top 10 Arrowverse Things We Want For Beebo Day
By JENNA ANDERSON - December 20, 2017
http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/12/20/arrow-flash-supergirl-legends-of-tomorrow-gifts-beebo-day/#10

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SLIDE 1/10 – A HŌZEN

This is perhaps the first gift given within the context of the Arrowverse, with Oliver Queen/Green Arrow (Stephen Amell) gifting it to his younger sister Thea (Willa Holland) in Arrow's pilot episode.

At the time, Oliver sold it off as a knick-knack he bought at the Beijing airport. But as Arrow's flashbacks went on, we saw just how many uses the Hōzen had during Oliver's journey on the island.

The object not only functioned as a necklace, but it provided a list of coordinates to a submarine holding Mirakuru. And Oliver did have to keep the Hōzen away from Professor Anthony Ivo (Dylan Neal) and his men, which kind of puts the woes of Black Friday shopping to shame.
*  *  *
SLIDE 10/10 – A GIFT CARD TO BIG BELLY BURGER
 
Big Belly Burger first became a running joke in Arrow's early seasons, before expanding to The Flash and occasionally appearing on Legends. And in an adorable video promoting this year's season of shows, it was revealed that the chain has now expanded to Supergirl's National City.

Who knows, maybe Big Belly Burger could do some sort of inter-dimensional combination gift card deal with The Flash's Jitters coffee shop and Supergirl's Noonan's? It'd certainly be a good backup, in case your family's holiday dinner goes awry.

SLIDE 1/10 – A HŌZEN
SLIDE 2/10 – A NEW SUPER SUIT
SLIDE 3/10 – A MARTIN STEIN PUPPET
SLIDE 4/10 – SUPERMAN'S BABY BLANKET
SLIDE 5/10 – THE "INVASION!" VIDEO GAME
SLIDE 6/10 – 'NINE LIVES AND COUNTING' BY CAT GRANT
SLIDE 7/10 – A SINKS, SHOWERS, AND STUFF KNIFE SET
SLIDE 8/10 – LADY BIRD JOHNSON'S PECAN PIE RECIPE
SLIDE 9/10 – AN ORIGINAL SONG
SLIDE 10/10 – A GIFT CARD TO BIG BELLY BURGER

Edited December 21, 2017 by tv echo

[Miss Dee]

14 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

On another note, anyone got a show that they really enjoy but aren't overly hung up about? That show for me is AoS! Love it! Love everyone on it, love the storylines, watch every episode really carefully but I am nowhere near as worked up about it as I am about Arrow. Hehe it's nice and relaxing! Weird thing is I probably pay more attention to ALL episodes and scenes in AoS whereas I could barely tell you what went on in the boring Deathstroke eps! 

That's Flash, Supergirl and Arrow for me. (I think it's obvious I'm more invested in Legends.)

That's probably why I don't need either Felicity or Iris to be perfect or even likeable 100% of the time in order to find them likeable in general. I think a lot of fandoms - not pointing specifically to this one, but in general - use the slightest hints of imperfection to justify their stance on why a character sucks - and female characters are especially vulnerable to this; to many fans a female character is either that fan's vision of a perfect woman archetype or she's trash - and of course the corollary to that is fans of that character feel attacked and honour-bound to defend them against what is often (not always, but often) a really shitty pile on that is a thinly-veiled disguise for misogyny, sexism, racism, homophobia, fat-shaming, etc. And that makes it doubly-difficult to have an honest conversation with other fans who actually have really good reasons for finding these characters difficult to like or problematic in some way...and that makes it difficult for those fans not to feel slighted and disrespected for their opinions...and the circle of life continues, and I could go on but I think you've all had enough on Miss Dee's Theory of How Fandoms Devolve Into Shitshows for now.

So getting back to this fandom: I think Felicity was a little thoughtless when she interrupted the wedding; I think Iris was a little snippy when she complained about it to her husband after the fact. To me, that just makes them more like real women I know and neither action is so heinous that they deserve to be hated or pitted against each other.

I have no doubt Felicity and Iris should and will remain friends. That said: man, that relationship needs a writer who understands how to write supportive friendships among non-super powered women, stat. Just about every negative thing I can think of that's been said recently about Iris and Felicity can be attributed to writing choices as opposed to deliberate character flaws, and they need someone who understands the nuances of real friendships between women to "publicize", for lack of a better word, to the fandom that these two really are decent women, really are good friends and really have each other's back.

[scarynikki12]

31 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Meanwhile, the intensely dark Gotham, a prequel to Batman, consistently astonishes with a nihilistic vision and savage violence that I’m not sure how a noncable broadcaster manages to finesse. Surpassing Tim Burton’s darkly comic movie vision, it remains the best superhero show on the tube.

Truth. LOT is my favorite but Gotham has gotten so freaking good that I have to agree with this opinion. Plus it’s Jerome season! And we get to watch him play with Pengy when the show returns! And Ben is a good screenwriter! What’s not to love? 

[doesntworkonwood]

The writers are in a weird position where because they're dealing with a 'verse that spans five(?) shows, they've kind of got to know how to write for characters that they're not used to. On Arrow, the way writers get around it is by almost ignoring the other shows. A big example of that is the latest episode where even though the main event was a follow up on what happened on LOT, there wasn't really any mention of Barry and Iris at all. If other characters are mentioned it's more in the way of 'we could ask so and so for help' rather than anything about the character or relationships (unless it's Sara, but I give a bit of leeway to that because she originated on Arrow and is related to one of the main characters). 

When it comes to Arrow, I've been watching it long enough that I often separate between 'in-character' and 'for plot character'.*** I stopped watching The Flash in season one except for crossover episodes, and I have never watched LOT (unless it was a crossover). That means it's harder for me to separate who the characters are and how they're written. If I only watch a few scenes of Iris and she's coming across as bitter then that becomes her character for me. However if Felicity is coming across as bitter, because I've watched her for over 5 years that only becomes a small part of her character for me. 

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the writers on all of the shows should be a bit more careful with characterisation when it comes to episodes that might have a bigger audiences due to crossovers. Whether that's mini ones (e.g. whenever Felicity goes over to The Flash she's written as dumb sometimes) or larger ones (during or after a crossover).  You can't expect the audience of another show to be as forgiving as your regular audience. 

 

*** I understand that this is a bad thing. In fact it's one of my biggest complaints about Arrow after the boring fight scenes. 

[Mellowyellow]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

10 TV Couples We Couldn't Get Enough Of in 2017 on JJJ
20 DECEMBER 2017
http://www.justjaredjr.com/2017/12/20/10-tv-couples-we-couldnt-get-enough-of-in-2017-on-jjj/

CLARY & SIMON – Shadowhunters
KARA & MON-EL – Supergirl
IRIS WEST & BARRY ALLEN – The Flash
ANDI & JONAH – Andi Mack
MAGNUS & ALEC – Shadowhunters
FRANCIS & MARY – Reign
BETTY & JUGHEAD – Riverdale
BONNIE & ENZO – The Vampire Diaries
OLIVER & FELICITY – Arrow
KLAUS & CAROLINE – The Vampire Diaries/The Originals

Surpised Mary and Francis are so popular!!!!

Not surprised about Olicity! 

Am pleased there are so many who like Caroline/Klaus. I've always thought they had greet chemistry. 

[Starfish35]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

 

Forget Matt Damon--I recognized him right away.  Who I didn't recognize, and kicked myself for not doing so, was Sam Neill as Actor Odin! Since the only Hemsworth I care about is Chris, I didn't get too excited that his brother Luke, played Actor Thor.

I know the name, but I don't think I've ever seen Sam Neill in anything. Well except this of course.

Ha, I didn't know until now that was Chris Hemsworth's brother, either.  Shows how much I've been paying attention.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Starfish35

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 minute ago, Starfish35 said:

I know the name, but I don't think I've ever seen Sam Neill in anything. Well except this of course.

The original Jurassic Park, maybe?

[Starfish35]

1 minute ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

The original Jurassic Park, maybe?

No, sorry, I haven't seen any of the Jurassic Park movies.

[tennisgurl]

I still cant believe the double wedding turned out to be such a big freaking deal. When I watched it, I was too busy being emotionally drained, then smiling at two of my ships getting hitched to really pay much attention. Its just so weird to me how much of the fandom decided to focus on this meaningless 5 minutes of what was in most ways a very successful cross over. Why is this still a thing?!?!

So, I was watching some of my favorite holiday based episodes of my favorite shows (as I do every year), so today I decided to watch 3 Ghosts (so good!) and I decided to watch The Scientist as well, as its the episode that leads into it, and introduces Barry Allen. They're both really good episodes, and they're really interesting episodes to watch with hindsight as to what this franchise will become. A few thoughts that occurred to me while watching: 

1. I miss the Sin/Roy/Thea dynamic a lot. They were a fun trio and were a MUCH better unofficial B Squad than the current actual B Squad. 

2. I really love the music that plays when Barry arrives in Starling on a bus in the rain. It sounds kind of mystical and mysterious, like a big change is coming. And its even better watching it now, knowing that, with the introduction of Barry and the particle accelerator, the franchise will be changed forever, and become a very different place.  

3. In retrospect, its hilarious watching everyone, especially Felicity and John, freaking out about a guy with super strength. Its like, "oh, you poor things. You have no idea whats coming. A dude with super strength is going to be one of the lesser of the weird things you have to deal with. John is even like "whats next, aliens?!?!" He might as well have said "A guy with super strength!? Whats next? Aliens? Ray guns? Super strong telepathic gorillas? Raising people from the dead through magic pits? Our friends taking the laws of space and time and making balloon animals out of them? These are things that will NEVER affect us, and are utterly ridiculous! RIDICULOUS I SAY!"  

[Chaser]

17 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

No, sorry, I haven't seen any of the Jurassic Park movies.

I...what?

[Starfish35]

Just now, Chaser said:

I...what?

Haha yes it's true.  :)

[SmallScreenDiva]

I miss the days when Arrow got a good runup to its MSF without having to make room for the crossover. The Scientist and Three Ghosts were just really good back-to-back episodes. 

[Chaser]

3 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Haha yes it's true.  :)

But but but you have too!

At least the first one and the second and Jurassic World. You can skip the third one. 

[Chaser]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

Surpised Mary and Francis are so popular!!!!

Not surprised about Olicity! 

Am pleased there are so many who like Caroline/Klaus. I've always thought they had greet chemistry. 

Klaroline was my Vampire Diaries ship and I was so mad when they sent Klaus off to The Originals with baby mama and a Caroline clone. I remember those that hated Klaroline gloating all over SM.

And now with The Original spoilers

Spoiler

Hehehe I'm so excited for a Klaroline Endgame.

[jay741982]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

Surpised Mary and Francis are so popular!!!!

Not surprised about Olicity! 

Am pleased there are so many who like Caroline/Klaus. I've always thought they had greet chemistry. 

Aaahh Bughead and Olicity both on this list