Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Sakura12]

It's so great that Barry can forgive himself for all the terrible stuff he did to other people to get what he wanted. 

[leopardprint]

3 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Is Reign a comics character and is her name really Samantha? Because that's a lot of Samantha, Samantha, Samanda going on in the Arrowverse.

Perhaps the island explosion blasted Samantha into Earth 38. If only William had gone too. 

[insomniadreams88]

You know, I wonder how much of the Barry and Iris we're going to get at the beginning of season 4 is partly because they want them in the right headspace to have a bachelorette party in 405 and get married in the crossover if that does indeed happen. And if the annual crossover happened after the midseason break (say around episodes 12 or 13?), that would have changed things. 

[Miss Dee]

Link to interview with Tom Welling over his new role on Lucifer:

Why Tom Welling Chose Lucifer for His TV Comeback — Plus, His Take on This Fall's 'Clark/Lois' Face-Off

And it just hit me: with this role, Tom Welling *finally* gets to romance a Chloe.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Miss Dee

[quarks]

On two separate topics:

1. How much the showrunners discuss Felicity and Iris:

Not even close. Granted, part of this is that Felicity has been part of the Arrowverse for two years longer than Iris has, but even leaving that aside, Felicity and EBR have often been the major focus of showrunner conversations. AK has credited her with saving the show; AK and Berlanti have both discussed, at length, in multiple interviews/panels, how adding Felicity to Team Arrow changed the dynamics of the show and how fortunate they were to get her; MG has discussed, at length, how much the writers love writing for Felicity. She's brought up in virtually every interview/discussion. Sure, some of this is Olicity, but quite a lot is Felicity specific.  They've continued to discuss her this summer even with the character possibly "dead."

The Flash producers have yet to discuss Iris or Candice Patton to this extent, even though in some ways Iris is the more groundbreaking character. Sure, she doesn't have EBR's Cinderella story of getting pulled from day player to regular in a single season, but she is one of the first black main romantic interests on television, playing a racebent character. 

2. On Barry respecting Iris:

Barry adores/loves Iris - to the point that losing her made him go evil in at least one potential timeline.  That's canon. 

But with the exception of one brief moment from last season, I don't see her respecting her, which is an entirely different thing. Instead, I see him frequently making decisions that deeply impact her life without consulting her - or simply deciding that he knows better than she does what's good for both of them. It frustrates me. I'm a complete sucker for all of the romantic tropes that Flash is trying to do here - the best friends realizing that they've fallen in love with each other, lovers destined to be together in every timeline/universe, going evil after the love of your life dies, and so on.  But unfortunately, the way that the relationship is getting played out isn't working for me nearly as well.

[GHScorpiosRule]

41 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

Link to interview with Tom Welling over his new role on Lucifer:

Why Tom Welling Chose Lucifer for His TV Comeback — Plus, His Take on This Fall's 'Clark/Lois' Face-Off

And it just hit me: with this role, Tom Welling *finally* gets to romance a Chloe.

He went into more detail in his podcast with Michael Rosenbaum! But it's essentially the same. And now I have to watch Lucifer. And a double YAY! that he's a cop and not a bad guy.

What?

From the article:

Me: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!??????????????

Like it's even a question. ❤️?❤️Tom Welling ❤️?❤️all the way, Baby! Nothing, NOTHING will induce me to watch that grating, talentless hack. I'd planned to fastfoward all her scenes.

@BkWurm1!!

Quote

As TVLine pointed out to the actor, his Lucifer run will air opposite that of Smallville leading lady Erica Durance, who on The CW’s Supergirl is taking over the role of Alura.

“Oh, is that right? I didn’t know that…,” Welling remarked. With a very playful wink, he then added: “Well, she’s in trouble!”

 

Edited September 14, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[Oreo2234]

Quote

That's why I hope that they move Alex into a more organizing type of position, because so far portraying Alex strenght is heavily dependant on keeping Kara weak. But if they moved her more to a different type of role then they could both be strong, but in different areas (just like Cat was strong and cool and powerful without having to punch people)

I disagree. Alex has had kick ass moments that didn't depend on Kara being weak. She has fought humans while Kara dealt with something else.  She also has a very powerful Alien gun she can use. It would annoy me if the Guardian is the only human getting fight scenes.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Oreo2234

[statsgirl]

9 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Kreisberg says. “Now it’s season 4 and he’s really become The Flash in the comic books, the one who really is in full mastery of his skills and has the emotional maturity that he has in the comics.”

The comic book Barry is the one who didn't tell Iris he was the Flash when they got married and she only found out from him talking in his sleep and she kept that from him for years?  Great, I can't wait.

 

8 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

It worked on Lois & Clark (and I loved that show) because the Daily Planet was the core of the show.  Clark and Lois were partners, working together.  On this show, Iris needed a job where she and Barry could be partners, working together to save the day.  The journalism angle, while true to the comics, just isn't useful for that.  They should have somehow positioned her in a job where she could have been part of Team Flash from early on, not being outside the circle so often.  It's great that they're giving her more to do with the team, but giving her a spot on the team early on would have fixed a lot of problems, I think. 

Since the show went on the air and they switched Iris from psychology grad student I've been thiking that if they had left her in psychology, the Team could have used her to profile the villains and just generally give them insight into the characters on the show and help the Team when things go bad.  I still think so.

[ComicFan777]

I totally agree.  I was thinking that it would have been great if Iris was a psychologist for the team to also help with the team members' PTSD (similar to what they did in Blindspot).  It would have been a good way to get a closer look at how everyone is coping with being a superhero, saving the world, and how hard it can be mentally - her sessions with team members would be able to shine light on what PTSD is really like and different ways that superheroes go about coping with it.  Heck, she could have had sessions with Team Arrow, too...(mini crossovers)

Edited September 15, 2017 by ComicFan777

[Mellowyellow]

19 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

In all fairness, this is true for a lot of characters. I haven't heard a single thing about Mick after episode three. At this point I'm assuming Ray kills him in a fit of rage during Episode 4.

My precious Ray would never do that. He'd write Mick a poem or a jingle and annoy him to death. 

[LolaRuns]

12 hours ago, Oreo2234 said:

I disagree. Alex has had kick ass moments that didn't depend on Kara being weak. She has fought humans while Kara dealt with something else.  She also has a very powerful Alien gun she can use. It would annoy me if the Guardian is the only human getting fight scenes.

Getting fight scenes and getting fight scenes on the same level of Supergirl isn't the same thing. They risk always looking and feeling like filler. It's often quite a pity because from a choreography, many of the Guardian fights were better than most of the Supergirl fights. But still most people look down on the Guardian storyline because it wasn't with Kara, it wasn't acknowledged by Kara, so within the context of the show, at least by the interpretation of the fans, that means they are meaningless. 

The Kara/Alex relationship people idolize from season 1 was heavily dependant on Kara being needy. Alex still got to punch and arrest people in season 2, but she didn't get the same amount of glory scenes where she rides to Kara's rescue. Instead we had more instances of Kara riding to Alex rescue. People WANT Alex to upstage Kara because Kara is the measure of all things. Alex being cool *below* Kara doesn' t have the same oomph.  Just look at how Guardian was received. If it doesn't have Kara, people consider it not good enough and a waste of space. If they gave Alex the Guardian style asskicking storylines away from Kara, people would still perceive it as Alex being demoted. Because apparently fighting with Kara and not doing anything productive and not contributing at all to the outcome of the fight is still considered higher in the eyes of the fans than somebody being competent, but Kara isn't there to acknowledge it. That's why I say that the coolness people love Alex for is directly tied to her fighting on an equal level with Supergirl or even getting to upstage Supergirl. Everything else makes people turn their noses. 

There is nothing wrong with the way the relationship was in season one, including all the times Alex got to be the rescuer and comforter of Kara because it made sense for the situation. Kara was a new hero, she was just starting out, she was insecure. It made sense that she needed more emotional and physical support from her sister. But it just as natural that that would change as Kara grows into becoming her own hero. I don't want a Kara who is artificially kept in an infantile state just so we can get a weepy sister scene in every episode. There is nothing wrong with Kara getting saved by other people every once in a while, including by her sister. But there is also nothing wrong with her standing on her own more and actually getting to repay Alex by saving her. As she happened to do several times in season 2. 

I want a big, important sister story in season 3, but I want it to be an actually grown up relationship that develops. I don't want it to go back to what it was in season 1, because their season 1 relationship relied heavily on Kara being infantilized. It would be a huge regression for Kara's character if they went back to that. I still want loving support, but I also want believable conflict. I want them to to have a relationship on eye level, with mutual respect, not Kara the needy, hapless one and Alex the strong one. 

Yeah, I also want Kara to face her issues and traumas, but I want that to be HER journey and not something that is used just so Alex can look good. And definitely not something that is used to cripple her effectiveness. She should be allowed to grow into her own woman at a reasonable pace. 

And similarly, Alex's worth shouldn't be tied to Kara. It should be considered a compliment that the writers trust Alex to star in her own storyline, even if in season 2 it was just a romance for now. 

Quote

Reign is a comics character, but from what I can find, I think the Samantha identity is invented by the Supergirl writers.  It doesn't look like Reign had another identity.

Reign is a comic book character but she never had a human identity. She doesn't physically look human in the comics. She's just a chick/creature who one day woke up in a destroyed research facility , all grown up, with a bunch of other mysterious creatures and started travelling the universe with them. She doesn't have a daugther either. 

It seems like they don't plan on taking much from the comic origin other than the name and that she was created by scientists and might have an built in hunger to destroy. But even here they say she wants to take over the world rather than destroying it and many others (Worldkiller). 

 We already know she will be interacting with James, Lena and Kara, so I'm quite curious when Sam will come across Alex and what Alex will think of her and vice versa. I also hope that Alex gets to meet Sara during the crossover, even if they just said hi to each other, that would make me happy. 

Edited September 15, 2017 by LolaRuns

[Cleanqueen]

The show clearly doesn't respect Iris's journalistic abilities or has any faith that they can even writer a proper arc for her...so my question is why didn't they try to remedy that aspect. A lot of people loved E2 Iris, she was a cop and a badass, why couldn't the one thing Flashpoint did right be that Iris became a cop and her and Joe could've been a father/daughter cop duo.

It doesn't matter if Iris is a journalist in the comics because on the show Iris isn't even a journalist and shes barely at work so why not just change her profession.

[tv echo]

59 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

The show clearly doesn't respect Iris's journalistic abilities or has any faith that they can even writer a proper arc for her...so my question is why didn't they try to remedy that aspect. A lot of people loved E2 Iris, she was a cop and a badass, why couldn't the one thing Flashpoint did right be that Iris became a cop and her and Joe could've been a father/daughter cop duo.

The EPs seem to want the different Earth versions of characters to be distinct and different from each other. So if E2 Iris is a cop, then E1 Iris has to be something else.

Or... maybe the EPs thought that changing Iris into a cop would make The Flash too similar to Arrow in that Arrow had the cop/D.A. duo with father Quentin/daughter Laurel, and now have a developing paternal relationship between Quentin and Dinah (both cops).

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, Cleanqueen said:

A lot of people loved E2 Iris, she was a cop and a badass, why couldn't the one thing Flashpoint did right be that Iris became a cop and her and Joe could've been a father/daughter cop duo.

Yeah I've thought that it might have been interesting to see them use Flashpoint to reset Iris and her relationships with everyone.  Say it was Wally that grew up with Joe instead of Iris, and Iris, without her dad to discourage her from it, becomes a cop.  So now Barry has to get to know this Iris that he didn't grow up with, who doesn't know him and isn't in love with him, and Joe has to figure out how to form a relationship with the daughter that he lost.  

[Cleanqueen]

35 minutes ago, tv echo said:

The EPs seem to want the different Earth versions of characters to be distinct and different from each other. So if E2 Iris is a cop, then E1 Iris has to be something else.

Or... maybe the EPs thought that changing Iris into a cop would make The Flash too similar to Arrow in that Arrow had the cop/D.A. duo with father Quentin/daughter Laurel, and now have a developing paternal relationship between Quentin and Dinah (both cops).

I dont think they cared that much. We still have Caitlin as KF and they cant explain why her powers make her evil. 

And the Parent/Daughter duo wouldve been cool even if Arrow had a version of it. Laurel wasnt a cop but worked as a DA.

24 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah I've thought that it might have been interesting to see them use Flashpoint to reset Iris and her relationships with everyone.  Say it was Wally that grew up with Joe instead of Iris, and Iris, without her dad to discourage her from it, becomes a cop.  So now Barry has to get to know this Iris that he didn't grow up with, who doesn't know him and isn't in love with him, and Joe has to figure out how to form a relationship with the daughter that he lost.  

This would've honestly been a good reset and a joy to watch, but these writers aren't invested in anyone but Barry so I can see why they didnt make the effort.

[tv echo]

[Morrigan2575]

Sandman?

ETA LoT should start filming 307 as of today, if they're prepping the crossover that means 308 is the LoT crossover.

Hmm, curiouser and curiouser.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[tv echo]

[way2interested]

10 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Sandman?

 Any big obvious story that would be recognizable if we heard the title that has Sandman in it?

[tv echo]

‘Krypton’: Shaun Sipos To Play Adam Strange In Syfy Superman Prequel Series
by Nellie Andreeva • September 14, 2017
http://deadline.com/2017/09/krypton-shaun-sipos-adam-strange-syfy-superman-prequel-1202169783/

Quote

EXCLUSIVE: Melrose Place and The Vampire Diaries alum Shaun Sipos is set for the series regular role of Adam Strange in Syfy’s Superman prequel Krypton.

Based on DC characters created by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, Krypton is set two generations before the destruction of the legendary Man of Steel’s home planet. It follows Superman’s grandfather (Cameron Cuffe) — whose House of El was ostracized and shamed — as he fights to redeem his family’s honor and save his beloved world from chaos. Sipos’ Adam Strange is a world-weary human, who finds himself stranded on Krypton as the unlikely mentor to Seg-El, Superman’s grandfather.

Edited September 15, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Is Derek Theler Going To Be The New Shazam?
by Russ Burlingame | September 8, 2017
http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/09/08/is-derek-theler-going-to-be-the-new-shazam-/

Quote

It starts with an Instagram story post made earlier today, in which Theler photographed his own shadow and superimposed a lightning bolt onto the chest. There are also a number of screen captures showing follows back and forth between Theler, Sandberg, and DC Chief Creative Officer Geoff Johns on Twitter and Instagram. Indeed, most of Theler's most recent follows are DC-related, with Ben Affleck, Stephen Amell, Margot Robbie and Emily Bett Rickards among them.

[Morrigan2575]

12 minutes ago, way2interested said:

 Any big obvious story that would be recognizable if we heard the title that has Sandman in it?

Not that I can think of. I know he was part of tue Juatice Society of America (Earth2).

[Autistic Queer]

Thought this might be of interest. The Ruderman Family Foundation did an annual survey of disabled actors cast on television. The CW cast 0 (zero) disabled actors. Over all Berlanti shows on different networks still a big 0. When off the top of my head, Grant Gustin, Emily Bett Rickards, and Tom Cavanagh have all had to pretend to be disabled for character arcs, it really does seem like these show runners really do think disability is nothing more than a costume. 

[way2interested]

28 minutes ago, Autistic Queer said:

When off the top of my head, Grant Gustin, Emily Bett Rickards, and Tom Cavanagh have all had to pretend to be disabled for character arcs, it really does seem like these show runners really do think disability is nothing more than a costume. 

I get your point, but it kind of contradicts the idea of casting disabled actors, unless you mean you'd have rather they hadn't done those plots at all with Not-Wells, Barry, and Felicity. In keeping those stories they couldn't very well recast any of the actors just because their characters had spinal cord injuries.

I think the ultimate thing would be for them to create more opportunities for disabled actors/characters and then possibly not make new disabilities to characters so temporary, but not really sure what you mean by "nothing more than a costume." Normal people become disabled and that's what the actors were portraying since they couldn't go out and break their backs since their characters couldn't walk anymore.

[Karlophe]

15 minutes ago, Autistic Queer said:

When off the top of my head, Grant Gustin, Emily Bett Rickards, and Tom Cavanagh have all had to pretend to be disabled for character arcs, it really does seem like these show runners really do think disability is nothing more than a costume. 

Respectfully, any actor by definition is putting on a costume of sorts whenever they practice their craft. This isn't a matter of using disability as a costume, but of playing characters who were coping with disability - and in my humble view, doing so very well. 

That said, all of this Supergirl discussion has been fantastic - the in-depth character discussion, relationships, mythology, speculation, everything. Great food for thought for the rest of the break. Really looking forward to digging further into alot of the points brought up here and in Supergirl forums when I have the time. Really good read. ?

[Autistic Queer]

3 minutes ago, Karlophe said:

Respectfully, any actor by definition is putting on a costume of sorts whenever they practice their craft. This isn't a matter of using disability as a costume, but of playing characters who were coping with disability - and in my humble view, doing so very well. 

 

With all due respect that's incredibly disrespectful to disabled people. Disputes Hollywood's belief to the contrary we're not something you can pretend to be. It will always be an impersonation, an for me impersonation implies mockery.

Ableds always think that other ableds portray disability well but I've never seen it. Give me Micah Fowler over Daniel Day Lewis any day. 

FYI, we don't cope with disability, we are disabled, we cope with rampant ableism.

34 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I get your point, but it kind of contradicts the idea of casting disabled actors, unless you mean you'd have rather they hadn't done those plots at all with Not-Wells, Barry, and Felicity. In keeping those stories they couldn't very well recast any of the actors just because their characters had spinal cord injuries.

I think the ultimate thing would be for them to create more opportunities for disabled actors/characters and then possibly not make new disabilities to characters so temporary, but not really sure what you mean by "nothing more than a costume." Normal people become disabled and that's what the actors were portraying since they couldn't go out and break their backs since their characters couldn't walk anymore.

I'd rather we never had those disability sub-plots. Actually I'd rather no-one in television ever did a disability sub-plot ever again, they are always terrible.

Not only should these shows be casting disabled actors, but on about half a dozen occasions they've used a comics character who had a disability and completely erased it. It's like they have these opportunities served on a plate to integrate disability. But I suspect both the show runners and the network think disability is bad thing and don't want to touch it. 

I mean ZERO disabled actors, even Fox. had one. Btw, CBS win with 11. 

[statsgirl]

Unfortunately I can think of very few shows that actually cast disabled actors.  (At the moment, I can only think of one, NCIS:NO).  Even the series about a blind investigator, Longstreet, cast a sighted actor (James Franciscus).  Hearing impairment has been a pivot point on two series for Marlee Matlin, Reasonable Doubts (which I loved) and Switched at Birth but those are the shows where she had a major role.

With Felicity, Barry and Wells, they needed actors who could get out of the wheelchair because the disabilities were planned to be temporary.

5 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

A lot of people loved E2 Iris, she was a cop and a badass, why couldn't the one thing Flashpoint did right be that Iris became a cop and her and Joe could've been a father/daughter cop duo.

When on E2 Iris was a badass, Barry was pretty much of a wimp.  It's like Barry and Iris are a zero sum game.

6 hours ago, LolaRuns said:

Getting fight scenes and getting fight scenes on the same level of Supergirl isn't the same thing. They risk always looking and feeling like filler. It's often quite a pity because from a choreography, many of the Guardian fights were better than most of the Supergirl fights. But still most people look down on the Guardian storyline because it wasn't with Kara, it wasn't acknowledged by Kara, so within the context of the show, at least by the interpretation of the fans, that means they are meaningless. 

The Kara/Alex relationship people idolize from season 1 was heavily dependant on Kara being needy. Alex still got to punch and arrest people in season 2, but she didn't get the same amount of glory scenes where she rides to Kara's rescue. Instead we had more instances of Kara riding to Alex rescue. People WANT Alex to upstage Kara because Kara is the measure of all things.

I agree that the Guardian storyline was looked down on but not because they were fight but the storyline wasn't acknowledged by Kara, by the DEO and basically by anyone who counted on the show.  When the DEO needed all fighters to help save the slaves, Mon El and Winn were there and James was not informed and left back on Earth because The Guardian didn't matter to anyone.

I very much disagree that the Kara/Alex relationship in s1 was dependent on Kara being needy. You could equally say that her relationships with Cat, James and Win were also dependent on Kara being needy.

I didn't like the Kara/Alex relationship in s2 not because Alex couldn't ride to Kara's rescue but because there was barely any relationship there.  Alex came out to Kara, which took a big two scenes IIRC.  Then Kara told Maggie she should put her feelings aside and do what Alex, in a completely immature way, wanted.  I hated that resolution to what was a real problem between them. The Jeremiah stuff was okay but not enough of Alex dealing with it. The majority of the season was taken up by Kara/Mon El and Alex/Maggie and I didn't enjoy either of those.

The two best relationships on Supergirl in s1 were Kara/Cat and Kara/Alex and their was there in s2.

Edited September 15, 2017 by statsgirl

[Miss Dee]

8 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

My precious Ray would never do that. He'd write Mick a poem or a jingle and annoy him to death. 

I would pay real goldurn money to see Ray love Mick to death. Metaphorical death, that is. (Or what the French call la petite mort; I ain't picky.)

God, we need more of that pairing.

Not going to quote your whole post abojt the Danvers sister, @LolaRuns, but the whole thing gets a big fat ?from me.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Miss Dee
Clarified my thoughts

[tv echo]

The Washington Post weighs in on MG's planned BLM episode...

‘Arrow’ wants to address Black Lives Matter. Here’s why it should back off.
By David Betancourt September 15 at 1:29 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/comic-riffs/wp/2017/09/15/arrow-wants-to-address-black-lives-matter-heres-why-it-should-back-off/?utm_term=.a5d8982dac85

Quote

Give the CW credit where credit is due. They’re trying. Diggle (David Ramsey), who is perhaps the strongest supporting character on “Arrow,” is black. The show also recently added another black hero, Mr. Terrific (Echo Kellum), and a Latino vigilante, Wild Dog (Rick Gonzalez). The show has had an interracial relationship (featuring Diggle and his wife), and the Green Arrow, Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell), had a black stepfather when the show began.
*  *  *
“The Flash” features a lead interracial relationship, between the Flash/Barry Allen (Grant Gustin), who is white, and Iris West (Candice Patton), who is black. Barry was also raised by a black man, Iris’s father, Joe (Jesse L. Martin), on the show. Iris’s brother Wally West (Keiynan Lonsdale) is a black Kid Flash. One of the Flash’s top allies is Cisco Ramon/Vibe (Carlos Valdes), who is Latino.

The debut season of “Supergirl” featured the Girl of Steel (Melissa Benoist) crushing on a black Jimmy Olsen (Mehcad Brooks).

Lots of racial harmony? Sure. But the interracial relationships never seem to address just what it means to be in that type of pairing in a world that doesn’t always look at such love kindly.

Perhaps the most powerful and fear-inducing black character in the CW/DC TV universe was Amanda Waller (Cynthia Addai-Robinson), who was working on putting together her own Suicide Squad on “Arrow” before she was killed off, once Warner Bros. and DC Entertainment realized she would be a major character in the “Suicide Squad” movie.

The black characters who are left are all supporting characters on shows with a white superhero lead. Wouldn’t the CW serve itself best by addressing the Black Live Matter movement with a show with a black superhero lead? Now there’s a thought.

If only there was a black hero who could save the CW from this awkwardness. Oh wait. There is. It’s Black Lightning.
*  *  *
Now maybe “Black Lightning” already has a Black Lives Matter episode planned and the “Arrow” producers, who would be in the know on all things CW superhero TV, were inspired by this, prompting them to jump the gun with their BLM announcement. But the mistake made here was “Arrow” trying to gentrify a moment that should have been “Black Lightning’s” to explore. If you know you’ve finally got a black superhero series on the way, which will probably include a black writer or two (let’s hope, anyway — “Arrow” at this point does not have a black writer), let that series tackle an issue that means so much to black people.

Having a lot of sidekicks of color on “Arrow” is a step toward superhero inclusiveness, but when it comes to Black Lives Matter, that’s something that “Black Lightning” should handle solo.

Edited September 15, 2017 by tv echo

[ruby24]

That article makes a good point. The Flash has never once acknowledged the fact that Barry and Iris are an interracial couple, which is curious to me. I mean, never? It seems like you could address it without necessarily making a whole episode about it or something. Never once bringing it up, or that Barry was a white kid taken in and raised in a black family, that sort of draws attention to itself after a while in a different way.

[Primal Slayer]

I love that they don't address it since it doesn't really need addressing. 

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, Autistic Queer said:

Thought this might be of interest. The Ruderman Family Foundation did an annual survey of disabled actors cast on television. The CW cast 0 (zero) disabled actors. Over all Berlanti shows on different networks still a big 0. When off the top of my head, Grant Gustin, Emily Bett Rickards, and Tom Cavanagh have all had to pretend to be disabled for character arcs, it really does seem like these show runners really do think disability is nothing more than a costume. 

That's incorrect. Or rather that survey may have been incorrect or lacking some information.  Supernatural cast Shoshannah Stern, who is deaf, as a hunter. Her disability was integrated into her character's story and she used sign language part of the time.

Edited September 15, 2017 by catrox14

[bijoux]

Did Killer Frost previously wear a mini skirt?

[Proteus]

7 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Did Killer Frost previously wear a mini skirt?

Last season she did.

[bijoux]

11 minutes ago, Proteus said:

Last season she did.

Thanks. It feels odd to me compared to the suits I'm used to on Arrow.

[tv echo]

Superhero Insider - Superhero News, Music, Trailers & More
September 15, 2017  Kyle Anderson & Natalie Abrams

-- Natalie is in the process of "transcribing" all the news from her recent set visits. She also just received the first two episodes of the new season of Gotham, but she hasn't watched them yet.

-- Flash news: Barry will get out of the Speed Force relatively quickly, but his mind will be scrambled. Per Natalie, GG described it to her as follows: "It's like Barry experienced his whole life laid out in front of him from start to finish." So when he comes out of the Speed Force, he's kinda a bit wiser, but he can't figure it all out, he can't make sense of it all. So he's saying things that he thinks makes sense but it comes out jumbled to everyone else. He doesn't have an understanding of what he's seen, so it'll be tough for him in the premiere. However, AK told Natalie that it won't be like that all season. In fact, the Speed Force experience has a positive effect on Barry in that it's kinda like a baptism - he comes out "reborn, he's sort of washed away his sins, and he really loves being The Flash again." He comes out with a weight lifted from him. So the premiere episode is called "The Flash Reborn". (However, they are not doing Flash Rebirth.) It's all part and parcel of the show going much lighter. AK also told Natalie that all of these Arrowverse shows are origin stories and that "this year Barry really has become The Flash of the comics... fully in control of his skills and has the emotional maturity." So what we saw the first three seasons was the origin story and now, in S4, we'll be seeing the "proper The Flash." Kyle and Natalie noted that Oliver didn't become "Green Arrow" until S4 of Arrow. And Kyle opined that what made S5 of Arrow so great was because we saw the fully realized Green Arrow that season.

-- Supergirl news: Natalie spoke to Odette Annabile on set and enthused over her. Reign will not be your typical villain mainly because she has no idea that she's a villain when we meet her. She's just a single mother named Samantha. She has no idea that she came to Earth on a pod or that she's Reign. The journey is watching her realize the truth and seeing how it manifests. Odette loves that the twist is that Reign's a single mother. AK pointed out to Natalie that every bad guy on these shows either makes his debut as a bad guy or makes his debut halfway through the season and you realize that someone's been pulling your strings all this time. We'll expect her to turn into this bad guy, but what if it doesn't happen? Will she-won't she turn? (*) 

(* Why am I suddenly thinking of Black Siren's "will she-won't she be redeemed?" storyline on Arrow?)

-- Other Supergirl news: Chad Lowe will guest star in one episode (titled "The Faithful"). He will play a charismatic religious leader with a surprising connection to Supergirl. His cult basically worships her. Lowe will also direct a different episode. 

-- Other Supergirl news: MB had teased a possible new Supergirl suit at SDCC. So when Natalie asked her about it on set, she said that there was nothing yet, but we will see her wear "a different kind of suit this season at some point."

-- Arrow news: Natalie said that Slade Wilson's son has been cast (for that Slade two-parter). Liam Hall (Camp, Lucifer) will play Joe Wilson, not to be confused in Grant Wilson (who appeared in LoT's "Star City 2046" episode). This is the Joe Wilson who was mentioned in S1 of Arrow, when Slade told Oliver that he made Billy Wintergreen the godfather to his son Joe. He's grown up now and he's joined the Australian secret service (intelligence service), just like his dad. After years of brutal combat, Joe finds himself in a remote Kaznian prison under the alias "Kane Wolfman," fighting for his life. It will be a two-parter.

-- Other Arrow news: SA made the point to Natalie that "Laurel Lance is the most famous dead person in Star City." So if Black Siren is reintroduced to public life (either by being redeemed or by being full on villain), then how will the show unpack that? That she is alive and is the bad guy. Kyle noted that that would affect Oliver both as Mayor and as Green Arrow.

-- Marvel's Agents of SHIELD news: Nick Blood will be returning to reprise his role as Agent Lance Hunter. No word on Adrianne Palicki returning (she's on The Orville right now; incidentally, The Orville's regular time slot will be Thursdays at 9pm - yep, competing against Arrow).

-- Marvel's Punisher news: Jon Bernthal told Natalie that we won't see any supernatural elements or any ninjas, because his character is very grounded and he just wants revenge.

-- Kyle and Natalie then talked about the new teaser trailers for all 4 Arrowverse shows. They both thought that, of all four trailers, the LoT trailer was particularly effective in introducing the new season. It effectively distilled the great parts of that show and got them excited for LoT. They also appreciated the shot of lightning in Barry's eyes in the Flash trailer, as well as the subtle ways they showed the passage of time through the other characters' looks. Natalie liked the way the Arrow trailer ended with the GA jumping off a bridge. SA told her that they did that stunt by having the stunt man literally jump off the bridge. She said that SA also told her that they're staying focused on stories within the limits of Star City. Natalie gave James Bamford credit for keeping the show gritty and grounded. Natalie noted that Kara has accepted that she's an alien, so Natalie wondered if Supergirl was going to go her own way and cut through red tape more readily this season. Natalie and Kyle then talked about Supergirl's "what does it mean to be human?" theme.

-- Kyle brought up the topic of favorite songs about superheroes and noted that a lot of them seem to be about Batman. Natalie mentioned "Do the Bartman" and "Spider-Pig" (from The Simpsons). Kyle mentioned The Ramones' cover of the "Spider-Man" theme song. Natalie mentioned 3 Doors Down's "Kryptonite" song. Kyle mentioned played Method Man's "The Riddler" song (from Batman Forever soundtrack). Natalie mentioned Snoop Dogg's "Batman and Robin" song. They also played snippets from these songs as they talked about them. They ended the podcast by playing an audio snippet of Prince's "Batdance" song (from Tim Burton's Batman soundtrack).

Edited September 16, 2017 by tv echo

[Mellowyellow]

oh I really want Adrienne Palicki back on AoS! Loved her character on that show! 

[tv echo]

FYI...

(source)

[Mellowyellow]

Anyone see AoS?? I can't find it! 

[tv echo]

11 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Anyone see AoS?? I can't find it! 

AoS will be returning after Marvel's Inhumans' 8 episodes air and will be taking over that time slot on Friday nights (so probably sometime in mid-November)...

Sources:
http://ew.com/tv/2017/08/06/agents-of-shield-return-date/
http://comicbook.com/2017/08/06/agents-of-shield-season-5-return-date/

Edited September 16, 2017 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

Quote

 

As TVLine pointed out to the actor, his Lucifer run will air opposite that of Smallville leading lady Erica Durance, who on The CW’s Supergirl is taking over the role of Alura.

“Oh, is that right? I didn’t know that…,” Welling remarked. With a very playful wink, he then added: “Well, she’s in trouble!”

 

Quote

 

Like it's even a question. ❤️?❤️Tom Welling ❤️?❤️all the way, Baby! Nothing, NOTHING will induce me to watch that grating, talentless hack. I'd planned to fastfoward all her scenes.

@BKWURM1!! 

 

Lol, I'm a completest.  I never skip anything in an episode but I did recently try to watch some Hallmark Mystery Channel movie with her in it to make watching Supergirl less jarring.  It's not going to be less jarring or less of a chore.  All the things I didn't like about her as an actress came flooding back to me.  I'm going to try and tell myself the lack of expression we are sure to get from her is because she's Kryptonian and stoic rather than either CAN'T move her face because of botox or just doesn't know how to act.  Yes, that's mean but it is what it is.  

 

16 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

I love that they don't address it since it doesn't really need addressing. [Iris and Barry as an interracial couple]

 

I get where you are coming from and even shared that opinion, but then I read an article from some mommy blogger that talked about why if some parent said they don't see race or ever talk about it that she wouldn't let her kids go over for playdates anymore.  I couldn't find the same article as before but this one expressed a lot of the same sentiments. http://brownicity.com/what-are-kids-learning-when-we-are-not-teaching/ "RACE still DOES MATTER! And intentionally NOT talking and teaching about it does NOT make racism go away!"  "Therefore, silence allows our children to be conditioned by the very “racist status quo” from which we wish to absolve them."  

So yeah, now I'm on the side of it should be addressed in some manner just because it WOULD sadly come up in real life and it seems unfair for The Flash not to do some good when it has a great opportunity to do it.  I get why doing it could be tricky but it wouldn't have to be a huge thing.  If nothing else, just toss it in there with the list of other challenges they will face as a couple.  Just don't completely ignore it.  Because real interracial couples wouldn't have that luxury.  

Edited September 16, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Delphi]

I just really don't get the line up for any of these shows...the only one that possibly makes any sense is using Riverdale as a lead in for that Dynasty show... which... okay. 

I also get moving Once,  it's practically on life support.  

But Lucifer doesn't strike me as 8pm show.  Nor Supernatural.   I mean they can move Spn anywhere and the fans follow,  so whatever.   Do they think Arrow has the same rabid fan base.

Then they keep moving Legends around like that will help it find an audience.   

Perhaps I'm just bothered that so many of my shows now conflict with one another.

[BkWurm1]

Friday makes sense as well as Wednesday.  Monday I guess they are thinking Valor is a more gritty, realistic superwoman? (She fights, she flies, works for the government, has trouble in her love life)  What I saw looked like crap so agree to disagree but I guess I get their reasoning there.  As well as pairing The Flash and Legends.  Often they have a similar tone (or at least The Flash keeps promising that lighter tone again).  I've never thought Arrow and Supernatural paired well but it's what they keep doing so oh well.  

[Primal Slayer]

Supernatural is not the same show it was back during its first 6ish seasons. They are doing a Scooby Doo crossover lol, I think the show nowadays is fine for 8pm.

[Mellowyellow]

7 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Supernatural is not the same show it was back during its first 6ish seasons. They are doing a Scooby Doo crossover lol, I think the show nowadays is fine for 8pm.

Really? Like with the dog and Shaggy etc????

Is Scooby real or animated?

[tv echo]

The Arrowverse shows (like almost all CW shows) create a fantasy world/shared universe where everyone is beautiful, predominantly young, and color-blind. That's why no one ever looks twice at or even comments on interracial relationships or racial issues (same goes for LGBT characters and relationships). It's all treated as a matter of course in all four shows. That's not real life (unfortunately). It's a fantasy.

So it will be even more incongruous for Arrow suddenly to introduce a BLM storyline when racism has never been raised or treated as an issue before.

I think the closest any of the Arrowverse shows has come to commenting on race was when Cat Grant said: "You look like the attractive yet non-threatening, racially diverse case of a CW show." (But I could be wrong since I no longer watch all 4 shows. And if I'm wrong, I'm sure someone here will correct me.)

Edited September 16, 2017 by tv echo

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, Mellowyellow said:

Really? Like with the dog and Shaggy etc????

Is Scooby real or animated?

I believe it'll be an animated episode.

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

I believe it'll be an animated episode.

Too cute!!! Although a tiny part of me was hoping for this big well trained lug of a dog to be Scooby! 

[statsgirl]

Lucifer I can see as an 8p.m. show because it's not really violent and sexy while not sexual.  I'm disappointed they've moved OUaT from Sunday because I won't be watching America's Funniest Videos or the very staged Shark Tank.  Looking over the new shows, the only one I'm interested in is Inhumans, although I'll given Kevin (Probably) Saves The World a try for Jason Ritter.

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

AK pointed out to Natalie that every bad guy on these shows either makes his debut as a bad guy or makes his debut halfway through the season and you realize that someone's been pulling your strings all this time. We'll expect her to turn into this bad guy, but what if it doesn't happen? Will she-won't she turn? (*) 

If she doesn't turn into a bad guy, then what's the point of the character at all?  Zero suspense as to whether she'll turn.

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

So if Black Siren is reintroduced to public life (either by being redeemed or by being full on villain), then how will the show unpack that? That she is alive and is the bad guy. Kyle noted that that would affect Oliver both as Mayor and as Green Arrow.

 The guy who spent all that money building her a statue is going to look like an idiot.

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

She said that SA also told her that they're staying focused on stories within the limits of Star City.

Except for the fifth and sixth episodes.  They go to save Joe Wilson.  Strangely, that's the first spoiler I've found to look forward to this season.  And the seventh which is the crossover.  So the first four then.

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

 I get why doing it could be tricky but it wouldn't have to be a huge thing.  If nothing else, just toss it in there with the list of other challenges they will face as a couple.  Just don't completely ignore it.  Because real interracial couples wouldn't have that luxury.  

Have they ever addressed any challenges they would face as a couple other than Barry being the Flash?

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Lol, I'm a completest.  I never skip anything in an episode but I did recently try to watch some Hallmark Mystery Channel movie with her in it to make watching Supergirl less jarring.  It's not going to be less jarring or less of a chore.  All the things I didn't like about her as an actress came flooding back to me.  I'm going to try and tell myself the lack of expression we are sure to get from her is because she's Kryptonian and stoic rather than either CAN'T move her face because of botox or just doesn't know how to act.  Yes, that's mean but it is what it is.  

The problem I have with this is that Alura was never stoic; she could emote and move her face. And that's because we had Laura Benanti playing her. And because she's no longer available (or too expensive?), we go from a great talent like Benanti, to Durance.??? Who, as you stated can't move her face, but her grating, annoying voice also is very nasal sounding to my ears.

If you're mean, then I'm downright a cold-hearted, unfeeling wench. And I have no problem with that.