Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[wonderwall]

3 minutes ago, NumberCruncher said:

I put no credence into Oliver and Felicity being compared to abusers since 99.99% of the time it's being made by a source who is mad the show deviated from the canon couple that actually did have a horrible relationship.

I guess I'm in the minority that I don't really find the adopted brother/sister thing between Barry and Iris to be that big of a deal.  Then again, I also feel the same way about Steve Rogers kissing Peggy's niece, Sharon, which I know is a major source of angst among Captain America fans.  Barry and Iris are not blood related and Steve never had sex with Peggy--hell, they never even went on a date.

I thought it was icky for Steve/Sharon to be kissing because Steve loved Peggy so much. It was icky for me. But not as icky as Oliver sleeping with Laurel/Sara. 

BUT I, too, don't mind the adopted brother/sister thing. I even gave them a chance in season 1. But I just couldn't be bothered to care about them a great deal. I was actually much more invested in Iris/Eddie, which, retroactively speaking, was very foolish of me.

[dtissagirl]

8 minutes ago, NumberCruncher said:

I guess I'm in the minority that I don't really find the adopted brother/sister thing between Barry and Iris to be that big of a deal.  Then again, I also feel the same way about Steve Rogers kissing Peggy's niece, Sharon, which I know is a major source of angst among Captain America fans.  Barry and Iris are not blood related and Steve never had sex with Peggy--hell, they never even went on a date.

I don't expect it to be off-putting to everyone -- it's creepy to me on a pure gut level, and I forever wish the text of the show didn't EVER put the word "sibling" in anything related to Barry and Iris. But they did, and it killed the 'ship for me forever, which sucks for me. But I'm good with other people being good with it.

That said, I don't really have a problem with Steve/Sharon other than thinking CEvans and EVC don't have any chemistry. [And the fact that I crack 'ship Steve with Maria Hill, lol.]

[tv echo]

Oliver and Felicity references in some media reviews of last night's superhero shows...

THE FLASH REVIEW: “INVINCIBLE”
POSTED BY JOSEPH MCCABE ON MAY 18, 2016
http://nerdist.com/the-flash-review-invincible/

Quote

The decision to off Barry’s dad is reminiscent of the climactic moment of Arrow‘s second season in which Slade Wilson killed Oliver Queen’s mother. That worked fine for Arrow, but The Flash was always intended to be a brighter, more hopeful show. (Or so we’ve been told.) And if we accept Arrow and Flash as analogs to Batman and Superman, well, while it’s understandable that Oliver Queen would be made to suffer the murder of both his parents, it’s less so that Barry would be similarly orphaned. It’s like having Lex Luthor kill Ma or Pa Kent, and it’s just a little too downbeat for an aspirational hero who’s a source of light to be constantly defined by his losses instead of victories.

‘The Flash’ Recap: “Invincible” – Mirror Image
BY KAYTI BURT      15 HOURS AGO
http://collider.com/the-flash-recap-invincible-mirror-image/

Quote

Barry Allen cannot catch a break. Such is the fate of being the protagonist of a melodramatic show. Tonight’s episode of The Flash ended with Zoom killing Henry in front of his son. It was a narrative move we’ve seen before; on Arrow, Slade Wilson pulled an almost identical move at the end of Season 2, killing Moira Queen and breaking Oliver Queen’s resolve heading into the season’s final chapter.

The Slade Wilson/mirakuru army story arc was Arrow at its absolute narrative peak. Slade killing Moira in front of Oliver and Thea was heartbreaking, unexpected, and the act of a villain we fully understood and maybe even had some sympathy for. Zoom’s murder of Henry Allen, though tragic and affecting, wasn’t quite as effective....

The Flash S2: E22 – 'Invincible'
By Robert Dougherty May 18, 2016 08:05AM EDT
http://www.themovienetwork.com/review/flash-s2-e22-invincible

Quote

As for the Siren, her ear piercing and non-electronically assisted call is the first dent in Barry's invincible armor. Yet since Wally comes up with an assist behind the wheel that would make Felicity Smoak proud, Barry is right back on his feet and ready to fight. Still, it takes others to figure out a better final solution.

Man Do They Love To Change The Status Quo On Agents Of SHIELD
Posted May 18, 2016 by Dan Wickline
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/05/18/man-do-they-love-to-change-the-status-quo-on-agents-of-shield/

Quote

... The last ten minutes set up the new season starting six months later and we see that Daisy is no longer with SHIELD. She now looks like Goth Felicity Smoak from Arrow and is helping the family of the Inhuman that gave her the vision....

Edited May 18, 2016 by tv echo

[bethy]

On 5/18/2016 at 1:28 PM, NumberCruncher said:

I guess I'm in the minority that I don't really find the adopted brother/sister thing between Barry and Iris to be that big of a deal.  Then again, I also feel the same way about Steve Rogers kissing Peggy's niece, Sharon, which I know is a major source of angst among Captain America fans.  Barry and Iris are not blood related and Steve never had sex with Peggy--hell, they never even went on a date.

That's so interesting. I also am not bothered by Barry/Iris relationship, but Steve kissing Sharon did wig me out a little. For me, it wasn't about the physical (or lack of physical) nature of Peggy and Steve's relationship, but about the fact that Steve had loved Peggy - really still loved her - and was mourning her death when that kiss happened. I'm glad to hear that people other than me are angsting about that kiss - I actually looked around the theater like, "Wait. What? Is no on else noticing that this is problematic?" :)  

Edited May 23, 2016 by bethy
Because "hear" and "here" are not the same word. Sigh.

[BkWurm1]

Love the one you're with?

(Worst song advice ever-the sixties were a strange time.)

Edited May 18, 2016 by BkWurm1

[dtissagirl]

I thought the kiss was terrible but mostly because of Sam and Bucky smirking and giving the thumbs up. The whole scene felt like Marvel was looking directly and me and saying STEVE ROGERS IS VERY VERY STRAIGHT, OKAY, INTERNETS. ENOUGH. STOP 'SHIPPING HIM WITH BUCKY/TONY/OTHER DUDES.

[nksarmi]

Steve/Sharon doesn't bother me because the flirtation was already there and she showed faith in him when a whole lot of other people in the MCU did not (in more than one movie). If anything - the kiss was overdue. But I think I view Steve/Peggy differently because Peggy married and lived a full life while Steve was on ice. She loved again and maybe he just hadn't had time to or maybe he just had to let her go first - but it's ok for him to embrace that now. Plus, you know did Steve and Peggy even have sex for goodness sake? I'm starting to wonder if the boy is a 100 year old virgin. :)

[SonofaBiscuit]

Iris as a character would probably fare better staying out of a relationship with Barry, actually, but I know that's never going to happen because comics.  As it is, the show will put the two together. Then, of course, they will manufacture some reason for them to break up.  Maybe that happens a few times.  People will turn against Iris and say that she's whiny, or bitchy, or abusive, that they're tired of romance overtaking the show.  Barry will be a-okay, of course, but Iris is going to be criticized to hell and back because she's a woman.  Run Iris, run!

Edited May 18, 2016 by SonofaBiscuit
grammar/punctuation

[SmallScreenDiva]

Steve/Sharon doesn't bother me but I'm kinda meh at the pairing because, as other people upthread pointed out, there's no heat. Same deal with Barry and Iris for me. But I'd rather have no heat than anti-chemistry :P No heat can maybe be helped along with time and good dialogue. Although this whole "might as well go for it" attitude of both Barry and Iris is not giving me warm fuzzies. I can't remember if it was here or somewhere else where someone likened it to Peter Gallagher's pathetic declaration of love to Sandra Bullock in "While You Were Sleeping."

Edited May 18, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva

[hogwash]

That kiss was gross for me. Everything I've about learn both Peggy and Steve since CAP1 tells me they would've been amazing together. That's why the end of CAP1 is so sad and bittersweet. Plus, he wakes up 50+ years later and of all the women in the world, HER NIECE?! Comics are weird.

Iris hasn't done well as the crush object or the BFF but I'm gonna be stupid and hope she'll fare better as the girlfriend. I liked her anti-pep talk the most from this episode. Plus there's no way she'll become Barry's girlfriend and still be kept out of the A plot, right? I'm jinxing it...

[thegirlsleuth]

The writers on these shows are good at writing friendships and established relationships.  They are terrible at writing developing relationships. The women in these relationships always end up looking the worse for it, both because all the angst is of the over-the-top manufactured variety, but also because they don't have a strong POV.  Laurel and now Felicity have taken a hit--although I still love Felicity--and I imagine Iris will take a hit once she and Barry pursue the relationship and the writers decide to build in roadblocks to their happy destiny.

[ruby24]

Well, they might be better in an established relationship then. I'm actually not as sure as everyone else seems to be that they're going to constantly break them up. This show does want to be a lot more faithful to comics lore, and the thing about The Flash is that Barry and Iris were introduced as already engaged, and then were married for decades. Eventually there was drama when Iris was kidnapped and thought to be dead temporarily, but they NEVER broke up.

In the new revamped version from a few years ago it was a brand new universe where they hadn't gotten together yet (I think they are now, or close to it), but that was the thing about this pair that makes it unusual for comics- historically, they're supposedly to be solidly married and that's it.

Basically I think there's a chance they might make them a permanent pairing, because if there's any two they can do that with, it's this one. And of course they could do drama or separate them in other ways, through villains/kidnappings/alt. universes, etc. But they're definitely going to want to show them married on the show imo, since that was their famous thing.

Edited May 18, 2016 by ruby24

[looptab]

7 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

This show does want to be a lot more faithful to comics lore, and the thing about The Flash is that Barry and Iris were introduced as already engaged, and then were married for decades

I'm not particularly invested in the discussion, i.e. I'm neither overtly pro nor against Westallen so this is just a general observation, but isn't this show supposed to be an origin story? My point being, since they didn't introduce them as an estabilished couple, they are going to throw stuff at them. This is a TV show.

Edited May 18, 2016 by looptab

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think no matter what their relationship is in the comics, The Flash is a CW drama. There's no way there won't be some relationship drama. And by some I mean a lot.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[arjumand]

32 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I thought the kiss was terrible but mostly because of Sam and Bucky smirking and giving the thumbs up. The whole scene felt like Marvel was looking directly and me and saying STEVE ROGERS IS VERY VERY STRAIGHT, OKAY, INTERNETS. ENOUGH. STOP 'SHIPPING HIM WITH BUCKY/TONY/OTHER DUDES.

That's what bugged me about the kiss - not so much the thumbs up, because it was funny to see Steve's face when he remembered he had an audience - but the fact was it was a clear "Steve has a case of the not-gays!" (TM Mr Plinkett). Like, it wasn't important to stress this in Age of Ultron, because Bucky wasn't in it, but in both Winter Soldier (which I absolutely love - favourite MCU movie) and Civil War we have to have these very obvious CAPTAIN AMERICA IS NOT IN LOVE WITH BUCKY flashing neon signs. And the geniuses at Marvel (because in each case, you could practically see the producer's note floating over the screen) think this is the way to fix it, when even very oblivious reviewers (ones who say Vision was 'babysitting' Wanda - eternal facepalm) say things like "Steve and Bucky should just fuck already".

All I can say is, as things which sour me a little on the movie go, it was better than the 'Age of Ultron' Black Widow fiasco.

Back to Barry and Iris. The problem, as many have said, is that Barry doesn't come across as remotely sexual. Either Grant Gustin can't hack it or he and Candice Patton don't have chemistry? I don't know, help me out here guys. I just know that when they showed Barry waking up in bed with Patty, I seriously had a moment of "What are they implying here?" There was just a disconnect which I couldn't reconcile with the character.

If we compare it to Oliver's relationships, while there was no chemistry with Laurel (that scene where Tommy is watching them from the street, it looks like Oliver is trying to maneuver a life-size mannequin in a department store window), there was plenty with other characters. I don't even have to go the Felicity route (though it's my favourite) - he had plenty chemistry with Helena, and he and Sara were on fire. It's just that the entire relationship was yuck and wrong. But there were plenty of sparks.

I just don't see this with Barry and anyone.

[apinknightmare]

At this point I imagine a WestAllen proposal being like: 

Barry: "So, you think we should do it? Get married?"
Iris: "Yeah, why not. If it's fate for us on E2 and according to that future newspaper, might as well." 
Barry: ::shoves hands in pocket, kicks dirt:: "Cool, cool." 

 

(For the record I'm neither for nor against this ship, I just think it could've been christened better)

Edited May 18, 2016 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

7 minutes ago, arjumand said:

That's what bugged me about the kiss - not so much the thumbs up, because it was funny to see Steve's face when he remembered he had an audience - but the fact was it was a clear "Steve has a case of the not-gays!" (TM Mr Plinkett). Like, it wasn't important to stress this in Age of Ultron, because Bucky wasn't in it, but in both Winter Soldier (which I absolutely love - favourite MCU movie) and Civil War we have to have these very obvious CAPTAIN AMERICA IS NOT IN LOVE WITH BUCKY flashing neon signs.

Yeah. It always bugs me when I can clearly see that dudebro executives are trying to tell fandom how to fan [or how NOT to fan]. There's a scene later in the movie too, Steve and Bucky are talking about women they picked up in the '40s, and the dialogue means nothing at all, other than some straight dudes behind the scenes making sure the audience gets an extra NO HOMO dose before the totally slash-y shenanigans that are about to happen in the 3rd act of the movie.

Newsflash: fandom's just gonna slash harder, fools.

[ruby24]

24 minutes ago, arjumand said:

Back to Barry and Iris. The problem, as many have said, is that Barry doesn't come across as remotely sexual. Either Grant Gustin can't hack it or he and Candice Patton don't have chemistry? I don't know, help me out here guys. I just know that when they showed Barry waking up in bed with Patty, I seriously had a moment of "What are they implying here?" There was just a disconnect which I couldn't reconcile with the character.

I've seen people say this before. I honestly think it's him. You're right, he doesn't come across as sexual for some reason, with anyone. I think that can be worked around, if you just go ahead and emphasize the "sweet" aspect instead. I mean, there are people in real life who don't come across that way either, but they still have sex, right? Another way to deal with that onscreen is to have her take the lead and be the dominant one (that was clearly the case with their E2 counterparts, and I think that worked).

And by the way, to be fair, this whole "let's give it a shot" thing did come after last week's big "you're everything to me" speech he gave her, which made most people assume they were together now. So, I guess that was a misread, because they're not quite yet, but that was a much bigger moment they had that seemed to indicate that they were, as opposed to this one.

Edited May 18, 2016 by ruby24

[Sakura12]

For me Steve/Sharon didn't work because they showed us that Steve and Peggy were in deeply in love with each other without having the chance to have a relationship. I also find Sharon kind of boring. Steve needs someone with a little more fire in them. That's probably why I ship Steve/Nat. With Sharon they are trying to show how much like Peggy she is, when she's nothing like Peggy and shouldn't be anything like Peggy if they want me to see Steve dating Peggy's grandniece. 

WestAllen has always been meh to me. I don't really care about them as a couple. I just want Iris to have more to do. Their "Well...I guess we can date, because the future said we do" is kind of a lackluster way to get the main couple together. 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Sakura12

[tv echo]

This really beats Arrow's tweeted dialogue teases (warning: a little spoilery for Gotham's season finale)...

[SmallScreenDiva]

So, Stephen Amell apparently said a crossover between Supergirl and Arrow is now "highly likely." Not entirely unexpected, especially after news of the move came out. But I hope it's a one-way thing like with Barry visiting Supergirl. Maybe Felicity can hang out with Kara/SG while Digg and Oliver can hang out with the stern people at where Alex works (DOD?).

[Starfish35]

I haven't seen the movie yet, but yes, I admit I'm against Steve/Sharon just in principle because of her being Peggy's niece.  Steve/Peggy is one of the few OTPs I have, and while I don't mind Steve moving on, it's just...really?  With Peggy's niece? (Or really, grand-niece if we're going to be realistic.)  Ugh.  It just sets my teeth on edge for some reason.  

Barry/Iris, on the other hand, doesn't necessarily bother me? But I can see why it might others.  I mean...are they living in the same house right now?  Yeah, it can feel weird if you think about it too much.  I think they could actually have a lot of chemistry.  It's just that the way they're writing them is just so....passionless, I guess.  Personally I don't see Barry as a sexless creature, and I had no issues with the idea that he and Patty had sex.  And Barry and Iris can have chemistry - it's just, they're writing them all wrong and I don't know why.

[lemotomato]

If it's from the interview I saw, SA said crossovers were"highly likely" in the context of "Well, there are 4 superhero shows on the same network. TPTB are probably going to take advantage of that." I don't think it means anything yet, though. 

I personally vote for no big crossovers at all (I'm really tired of them, and Supergirl is even less compatible with Arrow than Flash), but with 5x08 being Arrow's 100th episode, it's sort of inevitable.

[quarks]

24 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

This show does want to be a lot more faithful to comics lore, and the thing about The Flash is that Barry and Iris were introduced as already engaged, and then were married for decades. Eventually there was drama when Iris was kidnapped and thought to be dead temporarily, but they NEVER broke up.

But they're definitely going to want to show them married on the show imo, since that was their famous thing.

 

You know, I keep seeing this argument, but the fun thing about The Flash is, this isn't exactly true.

I checked, and yes, Barry Allen and Iris West were introduced as engaged in their first appearance, in Showcase #4, October 1956. They did not actually get married until Flash 156, November 1966 - about ten years later.  Iris was then killed off in Flash 275, July 1979 - 13 years later, not exactly decades. Incidentally, one reason for her death was that she thought Barry was having an affair.  Eventually, yes, she was revealed to be living in the future - but shortly after that, in 1985, Barry Allen was killed during the Crisis on Infinite Earths storyline, and did not return to comics for 23 years - in Final Crisis, in 2008.

Just three years later, in the New 52 in 2011, he was dating Patty Spivot, not Iris.

So I'm a bit wary of using "because comics" as an indication that Barry and Iris will end up in a solid, established relationship without the usual off/on television drama stuff. Even if that were true for comic canon - and it isn't - these producers have happily tossed out comic canon before and will probably do so again. Plus, as others on this thread have pointed out, The Flash is still a CW television show. In my opinion, at least, Oliver and Felicity work much better as a happy, bantering couple than as a "you lied to me about your secret love child" couple, but that didn't stop Arrow from throwing that plot in anyway and breaking them up.  

[ruby24]

10 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Barry/Iris, on the other hand, doesn't necessarily bother me? But I can see why it might others.  I mean...are they living in the same house right now?  Yeah, it can feel weird if you think about it too much.  I think they could actually have a lot of chemistry.  It's just that the way they're writing them is just so....passionless, I guess.  Personally I don't see Barry as a sexless creature, and I had no issues with the idea that he and Patty had sex.  And Barry and Iris can have chemistry - it's just, they're writing them all wrong and I don't know why.

I just think they're gonna need a little more focus on it, that's all. Despite the male audience of this show that really doesn't like seeing too much romance, you need a little more scenes to develop a relationship. And with this one, I have to assume that's probably coming in Season 3.

But I do think Barry seems asexual. I was 100% convinced he was a virgin last season. And Patty must have been his first. And I don't think that was an uncommon view either- even people on Reddit were wondering this season if he'd ever done it before when they showed him in bed with Patty.

Edited May 18, 2016 by ruby24

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

If it's from the interview I saw, SA said crossovers were"highly likely" in the context of "Well, there are 4 superhero shows on the same network. TPTB are probably going to take advantage of that." I don't think it means anything yet, though. 

I personally vote for no big crossovers at all (I'm really tired of them, and Supergirl is even less compatible with Arrow than Flash), but with 5x08 being Arrow's 100th episode, it's sort of inevitable.

I'm going to be so annoyed if they make Arrow's 100th episode about anything but Arrow. That will be such a slap in the face to Arrow's legacy.

[lemotomato]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I'm going to be so annoyed if they make Arrow's 100th episode about anything but Arrow. That will be such a slap in the face to Arrow's legacy.

You know that's exactly what they're gonna do, though. Arrow is the oldest child in a big family, always expected to help out the parents and look after the younger kids, but is unappreciated and lost in the shuffle because it's not cute and precocious. Oh, and gets blamed if anything goes wrong. 

[AyChihuahua]

I really don't think it's Barry; I think it's Grant Gustin. He's a good actor and I like him, but he can't generate heat with anyone.

These EPs do not know how to do romantic relationships sans drama, and yeah, it's the CW. Of course they're going to break up at some point.

[tv echo]

In case anyone was wondering, The Flash's final adjusted ratings are 1.3 and 3.37 (same demo but down in total viewers as compared to last week's 1.3 and 3.52).

Agents of SHIELD's ratings went up in both demo and total viewers... 1.0 and 3.03 this week (both hours), as compared to 0.9 and 2.93 last week.

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/05/final-adjusted-tv-ratings-for-tuesday_52.html

Edited May 18, 2016 by tv echo

[hogwash]

Whatever happens with Supergirl can't be as bad as LOT setup. Everyone's already suited up and heroing around. They just need to get introduced and see each other in action.

I totally agree with those reviews. What the crap does a character like Barry Allen get out of watching his parent get murdered in front of him. Oliver was way more screwed up and he went totally bonkers after Moira's murder. What's the endgame here? More brooding?

[ruby24]

5 minutes ago, hogwash said:

 

I totally agree with those reviews. What the crap does a character like Barry Allen get out of watching his parent get murdered in front of him. Oliver was way more screwed up and he went totally bonkers after Moira's murder. What's the endgame here? More brooding?

Absolutely this. I hope those producers are paying attention, because I don't understand what the point of that was either. It's like they forgot what the appeal of the show was in the first place.

[nksarmi]

Personally I don't need an actor or character to generate HEAT for me to believe them as part of a couple. I don't see heat in most couples I watch around town everyday. Heck, I don't see heat in most pairings I see on television/at the movies.

All I need is for the two characters to seem to "click." It doesn't have to be a red hot, steamy connection - just SOME connection.

To me, GG has an adorable-level of connection with female co-stars they AREN'T trying to pair him with romantically. He was great with both Felicity and Kara. Earth 2 Barry and Iris seem to work. There have been moments - scenes - where Earth 1 Barry and Iris work. But it's just not the whole.

I actually think it's the writing. Barry and Iris are just not written well. The actors can only do so much. But when they are literally being written as "shrug, let's do this" - come on! Who can sell that?

[Trini]

Whoa.... I come back after a day and there's like 3 pages of WestAllen! Y'all should come over to the Flash forum. :)

Barry and Iris definitely should be written better. But we knew Iris had some feelings for Barry since last season; too bad they forgot about that until a few episodes ago. ::sigh::

19 hours ago, WildcardC said:

Who are they?

The new consulting producer is Zack Stentz who wrote episode 2.21.

[Trini]

I'm hoping they let the Supergirl writer tackle the inevitable Supergirl/Flash(/Arrow?) crossover; maybe the women will actually get to talk to each other.

[kismet]

On 5/18/2016 at 10:15 PM, Sunshine said:

Okay, so is S3 of The Flash going to open with Barry/Iris going on a date and then Barry pushing her away because he has to be alone and ending with them driving off into the sunset?  One third of the triangle (Eddie) died heroically at the end of S1 and now Barry's last biological parent has died at the end of S2. ;-)

Late to the thread cuz I wanted to see ep first. But to add to the Arrow comparison - Wally's story is feeling a lot like Roy only with a family.

Apologies if someone else mentioned it.

[Mellowyellow]

9 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

So, Stephen Amell apparently said a crossover between Supergirl and Arrow is now "highly likely." Not entirely unexpected, especially after news of the move came out. But I hope it's a one-way thing like with Barry visiting Supergirl. Maybe Felicity can hang out with Kara/SG while Digg and Oliver can hang out with the stern people at where Alex works (DOD?).

I would kill to have Cat give Green Arrow some sort of disdainful speech!!!!!!!!

[wingster55]

For me it isn't that Iris is just now wanting to start things after E2 and the future...it's that she's finally ready to deal with her feelings after all the denial, guilt have gone away. Before having feelings for Barry was so unexpected that when she recognized them she had no idea how to deal. Then Eddie died.

[kismet]

So after watching the Flash episode, I will say it was not too bad. I did love Iris's voiceover, I think it was a technique that works for the show. It linked her to the show and made her feel like part of the main plot - even if she really wasn't. Plus CP has a very nice voice. BA is over-confident again, good luck on the road race next week, at least we got a promo that said "Run Barry Run" or I might have gotten confused about what show I was watching.

The whole WestAllen conversation is kinda useless because the show is clearly going the comics endgame route with them. I don't think they ooze chemistry. But do believe they love each other. Tell me they want to give it ago and then they are pseudo-married, I would believe it. I don't need love scenes on the Flash, so extreme hand holding is good with me. I do think having Iris take a more assertive route as mentioned earlier, may be a good angle for the relationship.

Black Siren was tolerable. KC does play evil better, Arrow missed an opportunity there. And considering their love of poisoning and brainwashing, a s2 LL brainwashed by Blood may have made for a better overall arc for her than what they wrote. It also would have helped transition her better to BC because she is trying to make up for the bad she caused. But luckily that ship has sailed, no need to fix BC/LL they gave a more permanent solution that I am perfectly satisfied with. If the Flash wants to sink itself, I could see them trying a love triangle between Zoom/Caitlin/BS because I did pick up on some unrequited lust on BS's part. Since they seem to be pulling a lot of game plans from Arrow, I wouldn't be surprise if there was an ill fated triangle in the future for Caitlin.

The whole dead birds did feel like classic Flash we will poke fun at Arrow. Glad I wasn't the only one that saw the dead birds and thought it was a dig at BC.

As for Henry, it was very tragic that he had to die. We all saw it coming from the beginning of the season. Still, I was a little emotional at his death. Granted, I was glad they kept ice cream out of the equation. But it was cruel to rip him from his welcome home dinner.

[CabotCove]

Quote

Absolutely this. I hope those producers are paying attention, because I don't understand what the point of that was either. It's like they forgot what the appeal of the show was in the first place.

Exactly, its like they are trying to fit into the formula, they set with Arrow instead of writing organically towards their story & characters. 

Quote

If people just want "because comics" then I guess this is good news for them. For those of us that need to see a relationship develop with actual screentime shared it feels like it's coming out of nowhere. 

 

They set up a solid foundation for a future romance and had romantic development in season 1, so no it wasnt always "because comics" not sure it even is. They dropped the ball sometime this season, well they dropped a lot of balls about a lot of things this season. Even non-comic canon relationships have bad writing too. 

Edited May 19, 2016 by WildcardC

[Velocity23]

CW fall shedule:

http://www.eonline.com/news/766205/supergirl-joins-the-cw-s-fall-schedule-but-where-s-the-originals

[bijoux]

1. They moved Supernatural again?

2. LoT is starting in the fall?

[Velocity23]

Quote

Arrow

Posted May 19 2016 — 8:10 AM EDT

As The CW announces its new fall TV schedule, the network has subtly dropped new clues about the upcoming seasons of Arrow and DC’s Legends of Tomorrow.

First up, Arrow: “After a violent shipwreck, billionaire playboy Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell) was missing and presumed dead for five years before being discovered alive on a remote island in the North China Sea. He returned home to Star City, bent on righting the wrongs done by his family and fighting injustice. As the Green Arrow, he protects his city with the help of former soldier John Diggle (David Ramsey), computer-science expert Felicity Smoak (Emily Bett Rickards), his vigilante-trained sister Thea Queen (Willa Holland), former police captain Quentin Lance (Paul Blackthorne), and brilliant inventor Curtis Holt (Echo Kellum). But sinister players with a connection to Oliver’s past will push the team to its breaking point, threatening everything Oliver’s worked for and his legacy as the Green Arrow.”

Who are these sinister players from Oliver’s past? The upcoming season finale of Arrow on Wednesday should provide some more clues.

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Now, for Legends of Tomorrow: “When heroes alone are not enough… the world needs legends. Time-traveling rogue Rip Hunter (Arthur Darvill) assembled a disparate group of both heroes and villains – including Firestorm (Victor Garber and Franz Drameh), Atom (Brandon Routh), White Canary (Caity Lotz), Hawkgirl (Ciarra Reneé), Captain Cold (Wentworth Miller), and Heatwave (Dominic Purcell) – to confront an unstoppable threat. After saving the world, the Legends of Tomorrow now are charged with protecting time – the past, present, and future – itself. This responsibility will take them across history, bringing them up against a threat unlike humanity has ever known.”

This one’s a little more spoilery… and also not at the same time. It insinuates that Rip and the Legends are victorious against Vandal Savage during Thursday’s season finale, while setting up how and why the Legends will continue to fight on this fall – yes, fall – now being charged with protecting time.

The Legends of Tomorrow finale airs Thursday at 8 p.m. ET, while Arrow airs Wednesday at 8 p.m. ET on The CW.

[ruby24]

That sucks for iZombie. I love that show.

[Sakura12]

I love iZombie too, but the ratings were the only a little above The 100. 

LoT is in the fall that's interesting. So they become the new Time Masters? 

[looptab]

Why Crazy Ex-GF had to be moved after The Vampire Diaries? Ugh. And yes, not too happy about iZombie pushed to midseason. Legends is still a shorter season, isn't it?

Edited May 19, 2016 by looptab

[Sakura12]

I'm guessing LoT is still getting a shorter season that one of the Midseason shows will replace after they are done. 

[ruby24]

They did this because they want that epic, 4-part crossover to happen.

I wonder how that's going to work, by the way. Will some characters make appearances on some shows, but not others?

[way2interested]

5 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

They did this because they want that epic, 4-part crossover to happen.

I wonder how that's going to work, by the way. Will some characters make appearances on some shows, but not others?

I weep for the cast/crew of all of the shows during the month of filming. This is going to be rough on them.

And, yeah, they would have to cut characters from the episodes just to fit them all. Even crossing with two shows had only certain members cross but had the kind of main Trios appear in both, but you'll probably have certain people (SA, GG, EBR, MB, CV) who'll be in all 4 of them. Which, again, that's going to be rough. 

Edited May 19, 2016 by way2interested

[nksarmi]

Wow to Legends starting in the Fall - I do wonder if it's still a shorter season. I really kind of hope so but then again - that show could do filler episodes in a really fun way focusing on just a couple of it's stars at a time, so maybe that wouldn't be bad.

I wonder if Hawkgirl really is staying on. Cold was listed and he will only be reoccurring. I guess I'm ok if she stays but if she does - I hope Ray doesn't look twice at her. That romance made his time with Felicity look good.

[Sakura12]

It does look like Kendra is staying since she and and Cold were listed on LoT's description. I'm hoping she's in the recurring status too. She can leave in the finale and come back for an ep or two.