S03.E02: Nothing To Fear

[WendyCR72]

Dr. Manning goes to extreme measures to help a fearful pregnant woman whose baby is severely underdeveloped. April is angered by Dr. Choi when he uses their personal relationship as leverage to convince a patient of a risky procedure. As Dr. Rhodes attempts to balance his personal and professional life, it appears the stress of his current situation may have caused him to make a huge mistake. Dr. Charles and Dr. Reese continue to disagree about their psych patients.

[starri]

On 11/25/2017 at 11:18 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Dr. Manning goes to extreme measures to help a fearful pregnant woman whose baby is severely underdeveloped

Of course she does.

[Sandman]

Sharon: I expect better of you, Dr. Manning.

Sandman: Why? She does this kind of thing all the frickin' time!

[mrsbagnet]

April was straight trippin'. Why was Choi asking her opinion in the first place?

I have questions:

1. If Natalie's patient was suffering from anxiety and control issues, why didn't she or Will order a psych consult? 

2. Are April and Choi dating or are they FWBs? She described their relationship as "sleeping together" which seems dismissive and disrespectful if they are supposed to be a real couple.

3. Can new cardiologist and Robin please just go away?

April is a crappy girlfriend. Give Ethan someone better.

Edited November 30, 2017 by mrsbagnet

[Sarnia]

2 hours ago, mrsbagnet said:

April was straight trippin". Why was Choi asking her opinion in the first place?

 

He was not really asking her honest opinion I think. He just needed her to agree with him in front of the patient, because the patient trusted her. And clearly that's what she should have done. He's the doctor and she may know the patient better but he has the medical knowledge. She was totally out of line.

 

2 hours ago, mrsbagnet said:

Can new cardiologist and Robin please just go away?

Hear hear. However I'm worried that only Robin will go away and Dr Becker will become Connor's new love interest. Ugh.

[Netfoot]

You know why I like (Becker?) the New Cardiologist?  Because I have gradually come to absolutely hate every other character on this entire show.

With the exception of Dr. Charles, who I have hated from day one, the smug, self-important prick!  If ever there was someone who was the epitome of the principle that when you are a hammer, you see every issue as a nail, it is he.  Wise up, dumb-ass!  Everybody isn't nutzo!

[marionette]

So who in this hospital is not sleeping with one another or is infatuated with one of the other employees?  This is getting really tiresome.  Hubby and I were watching this last show and it was really hard to stay invested in it.  There are so few people on this show that we are even interested in.  Can't stand Will and whatever her name is that he can't live without.  Now they will spend the next many episodes making googly eyes at one another and we  used to like Dr. Choi but now he is all stupid with his lusting after April.  Really, you are sleeping together and still can't keep your hands off each other at work? How old are you people?  And Robin does indeed have to go.  The storyline is not interesting at all.  The writing is so poor.  Will probably follow Justice down the tubes.

[rhys]

The British (?) Doctor is so hard to watch. She has lock jaw. She  never unclenches her teeth! Get her off my screen please!

[Sentient Meat]

2 hours ago, marionette said:

So who in this hospital is not sleeping with one another or is infatuated with one of the other employees?  This is getting really tiresome.  Hubby and I were watching this last show and it was really hard to stay invested in it.  There are so few people on this show that we are even interested in.  Can't stand Will and whatever her name is that he can't live without.  Now they will spend the next many episodes making googly eyes at one another and we  used to like Dr. Choi but now he is all stupid with his lusting after April.  Really, you are sleeping together and still can't keep your hands off each other at work? How old are you people?  And Robin does indeed have to go.  The storyline is not interesting at all.  The writing is so poor.  Will probably follow Justice down the tubes.

I still like the show but I agree that it's flawed.   It's not prime era ER or St. Elsewhere, or even Grey's Anatomy but even Grey's is a shadow of its former self.  All hospital dramas have workers sleeping with each other, not simply because I'm sure this happens it most hospitals like any other large workplace but because the budget of shows doesn't allow sprawling narratives and casts that can explore detailed back stories outside of the main set.

The reason HBO and Netflix are so much better than most network shows is because people pay subscriptions and they run almost at a loss just to gain more market share.  Also they don't have time or censorship restrictions like regular television.  These days with shrinking ratings, primetime shows are almost run like daytime serials.  Unless you are independently wealthy like Seth McFarlane and make a labor of love like The Orville you are only going to get a drama with these limitations.

However, despite all this I think its main problem is that two of its female lead characters are beautiful but not great actors. (Natalie and April)  Maybe three if you include Robin but probably Reese is the only one of the younger women that stands out for me and they have her as the third or fourth plot point option when the show probably would do better if it was centered around her.  Maggie or Sharon are better actors, but sadly you cannot drive ratings with older average looking characters.  Same goes for Daniel.  The male characters overall have better actors portraying them, and Nick Gehlfuss wasn't the problem so much as Halstead was a terrible character, but they've fixed most of his narcissism for now so this is why I place any Manstead dislike on Torrey.  The jury's still out for me on Choi/April... agree that it was rushed and came out of nowhere but maybe they can salvage it somehow.  April's relationship with the football player was boring... so I'm hoping Brian or the writers can help raise Yaya's game and make it into something more interesting.  Unlike Torrey, I think Yaya's maybe capable of more than the dull, gloomy character she's portrayed so far.  Finally,I don't know why they keep saddling Reese with these goofy men...  she deserves better than third string comic relief.  Why not have her help Latham informally with his Asperger's and date him instead of Noah?  I know the age gap is a lot, but those two would be way more interesting and they are both my favorites right now.

[Xantar]

6 hours ago, rhys said:

The British (?) Doctor is so hard to watch. She has lock jaw. She  never unclenches her teeth! Get her off my screen please!

She's South African.

I think it would be much more interesting if Reese has a drink with Noah and then just blows him off because she realizes they don't fit. He needs to be taken down a peg. Besides, it's so rare to see a "will they won't they" in which the ending is they don't.

[Ailianna]

19 hours ago, mrsbagnet said:

1. If Natalie's patient was suffering from anxiety and control issues, why didn't she or Will order a psych consult? 

Because both their psych people were in a different plot this week?  I had the same question, especially after they talked to the husband, but that's the only answer I could come up with.

[RedbirdNelly]

Manning was so awful which is normal, but still. You have a patient who doesn't trust you but we keep seeing the doctors not spend 30 seconds to try to talk to her in a calm manner and get somewhere with her. And why does that patient get 2 doctors at all times?

I like Latham but that's about it right now.

As for April, I'm distracted by how beautiful the actress's eyes are. But the character is meh. It was weird to me about how she kept talking about how she's been treating her patient for so long. Where were the doctors on the previous visits? She's not an NP so I did not get why she was acting like "this is my case and my diagnosis." Yes, she knows a lot as an RN but she seemed to keep exaggerating her role.

[statsgirl]

Why are all the females on this show suddenly so terrible? So very, very terrible.

In order from the episode:

• Shut up April.  If you want to be a doctor, go to medical school.  Until then, doctors have the final say over medical matters even if you're banging him
• Manning (and Haltstead), she's obviously a psych case if she's so into her delusion.  Get her a psych consult immediately.  They have a mechanism for dealing with patients who are self-harming.
• Reese, anyone who is willing to take an insulin overdose to get out of seeing her ex in court is definitely in need of psychiatric help. And so are you for your inability to  care enough to do your job.  Charles need to fire her ass last month.
• Becker, you are a terrible actor. Anyone can see through you even Latham.  And your accent is terrible.  Also if there is a problem, never, ever tell a colleague to get out especially when it was his case.
• I like Robin but she needs to recognize that she needs more help then Connor can give her.
• Even Sharon was subpar this week not telling Manning to get a psych consult and doing something about Reese.  But I'm glad she changed her mind about the metal detectors.

On 11/29/2017 at 10:21 AM, rhys said:

The British (?) Doctor is so hard to watch. She has lock jaw. She  never unclenches her teeth! Get her off my screen please!

She is supposed to be South African but yes, she is British and doing a terrible job of the  South African accent.  I don't know why we have to be subjected to her.

I don't know how they managed to ruin Reese so quickly.  Maybe she needs to go back to school to learn something about personality disorders.  And I'd also like to refer her to the work by Hewitt and Flett about mattering in patients.  Or even just mattering in general.

The only things worth watching on this show are Latham and Connor when he's not with either Robin or Becker.

[Ailianna]

I (sort of) get Sharon's point about extending trust to the community, but they also have a responsibility to patients to protect them. I think the whole argument would have been framed and argued very differently if someone brought a gun into the ED and shot a patient in one of the treatment bays, versus brought one into the hospital and shot a doctor on the sidewalk.  But that point was never raised at all, at least on screen.

[RedbirdNelly]

18 hours ago, Ailianna said:

I (sort of) get Sharon's point about extending trust to the community, but they also have a responsibility to patients to protect them. I think the whole argument would have been framed and argued very differently if someone brought a gun into the ED and shot a patient in one of the treatment bays, versus brought one into the hospital and shot a doctor on the sidewalk.  But that point was never raised at all, at least on screen.

I thought that part was silly. ERs have metal detectors now for that exact reason and because they have an obligation to protect their staff. This might have been a debate worthy of some mention on camera if this was the 80s or early 90s but not in 2017. They added security measures to the ER on the show ER in the 90s and no one spent time handwringing about how no one will come to County. . .

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

They added security measures to the ER on the show ER in the 90s and no one spent time handwringing about how no one will come to County. . .

Heh, true. But then having two staffers stabbed by a patient and left in pools of blood kind of left County no choice! (Still a great episode, that one...)

[starri]

On 11/30/2017 at 2:05 PM, statsgirl said:

• Reese, anyone who is willing to take an insulin overdose to get out of seeing her ex in court is definitely in need of psychiatric help. And so are you for your inability to  care enough to do your job.  Charles need to fire her ass last month.

On a related note, Noah remains a terrible doctor.  He stated he knew the patient had intentionally administered insulin because she had a high C-peptide level.  That's actually the opposite of true.

Why the fuck haven't they fired Natalie yet?  This is what, the third, fourth time she's committed medical battery?

[Chas411]

April was fucking hateful. Such a chip on her shoulder. He's not your patient, he's the doctors responsibility. As already said if you want to be a doctor then Go to med school. Don't be an entitled asshole though when you don't have the MD to back up your opinions. Her going to med school would be a way better storyline then watching her and Choi bang each other.

I did laugh at Choi patronisingly feeding her own words back to her when telling her she could let HER patient know he was dying. It obviously wasn't intentional but still came across that way.

i can't stand Robyn but I Hate how Conor talks down to her. Ugh honey and sweetie in that patronising sympathetic tone. I'll be so glad when that storyline is done. I am glad that Rhodes wasn't to blame for the valve defect. Mainly because that smug South African doctor is the worst character ever.

How frightening was Reeses patient? Christ. 

Goodwin telling Manning she expected better of her was funny. Like... Why? Doesn't she always do this kind of shit?

I quite like Will and Natalie together or moreso am glad the will they/won't they is done. I predicted the ending though the minute Manning said she was scared of heights.

[TVForever]

Anyone else think that Noah ( April's brother) is bordering on sexual harassment at this point? You get to ask a colleague out once, MAYBE twice, but if she ( or he) says no, then you back off. That's it- game over. Reese should be able to do her job without some guy constantly trying to get her to go out for a drink, or dinner, or whatever.

I wonder if this storyline is going in that direction, given the news of the day. I doubt this was the writers' original choice for the characters. 

[Stardancer Supreme]

Sigh. I want to like April and Choi being together, but she is so insufferable! How can she be mad at him for doing his job?  Actually, it would be nice to see them have sushi together and really talk.  Hiding the relationship was ridiculous, since they are Greys Anatomy-ing all over the hospital.  Let's see them outside of the job to see if they really vibe together.  Anyway, Choi deserves better. 

I'm still trying to figure out how Noah became a doctor. A better story line would be April hating the fact that her underachieving brother became a doctor while she is still a nurse. 

[Lyanna19]

Don't like April, don't like Robin, still iffy on Becker, I originally thought they were bringing her on as a new love interest for Connor, but she is a real B.I.T.C.H. 

Dr. Manning, why is she still working? I can't believe at how unprofessional she is, and how does she get away with her antics? Oh I guess it's a TV show and not real life, (sarcastically)

When I saw the very first episode of Chicago Med I thought for sure Connor and Natalie were going to be an item, and thus mess up Wills plans. I must say I am quite disappointed that it didn't happen that way, Will was already intimidated (?) by Connor so this would have just made for some drama.

I like Dr. Charles and I like Dr. Reese, but I wish she would grow up some, I think she is being insubordinate to Dr. Charles. 

I hope these episodes get alot more interesting....

[Sandman]

17 hours ago, Chas411 said:

He's not your patient, he's the doctors responsibility. As already said if you want to be a doctor then Go to med school. Don't be an entitled asshole though when you don't have the MD to back up your opinions.

Actually, he is the nurse's patient as well as the doctor's. Nurses have different roles and responsibilities than doctors, obviously, and there's a line between what a nurse is responsible for and a doctor's overall direction of medical care, but nursing care is real, and nurses don't just step away from patient care because there's an MD in the room. (Day-to-day, nurses are arguably more involved in patient care than doctors, anyway -- at least outside of an emergency room.) Choi was wrong, I think, to try to use April's relationship with the patient to get what he wanted -- that didn't strike me as entirely professional, and April was right to object to the idea that because they're sleeping together, Choi would automatically assume she'd back him up. I don't think this story was about an "uppity nurse" at all.

[Chas411]

My opinion isn't about what the nurses do or don't do. It's that she felt she should have had a say in his medical treatment and went off on Choi when he wasn't on the same page as her. Throwing their relationship in his face to accuse him of being unprofessional. Maybe he didn't behave at his best (they were both annoying) but she was insufferable with that chip on her shoulder. He's the doctor. Even if he's not as involved with the patient as she is.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Chas411

[Sandman]

I think the troublesome issue is their shared inability to communicate in a professional way -- the line between the doctor's responsibility and the nurse is usually clear, or at least negotiated professionally. I don't think she was being insufferable -- or at least not more than he was. He's the doctor, yes -- but she's the nurse with her own professional ethics to uphold. April seems to be getting criticism here for wanting to be a doctor, but I don't think April was trying to out-doctor Choi. I don't think she was throwing their relationship in his face as much as Choi was trying to make use of their relationship, and she called him on it.

[Chas411]

Maybe it wasn't her intention but what I took from that scene was her being pissed that he had potentially used their relationship as a bargaining tool for the patient (I honestly think Choi is arrogant enough to think any of the nurses would back him up). She then got defensive that he didn't want to take her opinion on board and stated it was because she doesn't have an MD at the end of her name. 

[Sandman]

I agree she was definitely pissed at him for using their relationship as a bargaining chip, and I remember she said that he used the patient's trust in her to get the patient to come around. I honestly didn't remember the line where she said it was because she didn't have an MD after her name. But that turf war over which of them should have the final say wouldn't have occurred, I don't think, if they had been communicating like professional adults -- about anything, really.

[MakeMeLaugh]

When we first met April on Chicago Fire as Severide's longtime family friend, she actually was in medical school. The totally unbelievable explanation for why she is a nurse now is that she switched to nursing school so her brother could go to medical school (because ??? Only one family member at a time is allowed to be a doctor? Because they couldn't borrow money for school like almost every other med school student does? Because Noah is smarter than she--as if!? Such a weak back story). I know nurses and they do feel ownership over "their" patients, but I can't imagine any doctor that I've met ever deferring to the nurse in terms of of who gets to call the shots for treatment; and as a patient, I certainly wouldn't want that. Choi is just mesmerized by those centipedes that are waving their legs over April's eyes, I guess.

[statsgirl]

On 12/5/2017 at 1:51 PM, Sandman said:

I think the troublesome issue is their shared inability to communicate in a professional way -- the line between the doctor's responsibility and the nurse is usually clear, or at least negotiated professionally.

I agree that the line is usually clear.  And I think it was here too.

April disagreed  with Choi's diagnosis and treatment plan. which is the doctor's responsibility. Wrong of her.

She also disagreed in front the patient, a patient who had a trusting relationship with her but not with the doctor.  Double wrong.

Probably  Choi shouldn't have asked her to tell the patient the final diagnosis but she was the one who had the relationship with him rather than Choi who is a stranger

[cathmed]

On 12/5/2017 at 0:02 AM, Lyanna19 said:

Don't like April, don't like Robin, still iffy on Becker, I originally thought they were bringing her on as a new love interest for Connor, but she is a real B.I.T.C.H. 

Dr. Manning, why is she still working? I can't believe at how unprofessional she is, and how does she get away with her antics? Oh I guess it's a TV show and not real life, (sarcastically)

When I saw the very first episode of Chicago Med I thought for sure Connor and Natalie were going to be an item, and thus mess up Wills plans. I must say I am quite disappointed that it didn't happen that way, Will was already intimidated (?) by Connor so this would have just made for some drama.

I like Dr. Charles and I like Dr. Reese, but I wish she would grow up some, I think she is being insubordinate to Dr. Charles. 

I hope these episodes get alot more interesting....

I still think the plan is for Becker to end up being Connor's lover interest--something I'm not relishing to see at all.    I also thought Connor and Natalie were going to be an item from the first season but I did like Jeff and Natalie together.  Too bad she didn't go to Hawaii with him.   I abhor Will and Nat together; there's zero chemistry between them.   April and Choi - forget it.  I want his old military gf back as well!   I think they pushed Reese into psychiatry too fast.  I thought she was much better working in the ER/ED and she and her boyfriend (lab boy) seemed like a cute couple.  Not feeling Reese and Noah either.   

The showrunner and writers are beginning to turn this once hopeful, encouraging, capable show into a debacle of epic and unnecessary proportions *sigh*

[SnarkySheep]

On 12/1/2017 at 8:58 PM, starri said:

Why the fuck haven't they fired Natalie yet?  This is what, the third, fourth time she's committed medical battery?

Because we already ran the lawsuit storyline with Will, no doubt...

[millahnna]

Pregnant patient represented a particular variety of pseudo science believer that drives me especially batty so I was primed to be a bit forgiving of any horrid antics on the part of the main characters.  I wish they'd done a psych thing there.

[watcher1006]

On 12/6/2017 at 10:53 AM, MakeMeLaugh said:

When we first met April on Chicago Fire as Severide's longtime family friend, she actually was in medical school. The totally unbelievable explanation for why she is a nurse now is that she switched to nursing school so her brother could go to medical school (because ??? Only one family member at a time is allowed to be a doctor? Because they couldn't borrow money for school like almost every other med school student does? Because Noah is smarter than she--as if!? Such a weak back story). I know nurses and they do feel ownership over "their" patients, but I can't imagine any doctor that I've met ever deferring to the nurse in terms of of who gets to call the shots for treatment; and as a patient, I certainly wouldn't want that. Choi is just mesmerized by those centipedes that are waving their legs over April's eyes, I guess.

One thing this show could explore is the matter of where the line demarking areas of responsibility is drawn not just between doctors and nurses but also between doctors and nurse practitioners. Nurse practitioners are increasingly doing work traditionally done by doctors at places such as urgent care centers and other clinic type settings. This is at least partly driven by the shortage of primary care physicians in many parts of the country and the delays people experience in seeing one. Cases where patients are admitted to Chicago Med after having been initially treated by medical professionals other than MDs could make for some interesting stories.

[kgg]

Just catching up on this season now and I don't know why I keep hate-watching this show.  It isn't even worth it!  The pregnant patient that Manning and Halstead took care of - anything beyond stabilizing the arrhythmia is NOT an ED issue.  How on earth do they not consult OB the moment they notice the fetus is growth restricted?  (And I call BS on him scanning her so lightening fast and doing measurements coming to a gestational age determination but whatever.)  Nutrition is not an issue that they are going to tackle in the ED, let alone her psych issues related to withholding food.  In the ED, you stabilize the arrhythmia and get the proper people involved (Maternal Fetal Medicine and possibly Cards and *eventually* nutrition once she is out of the woods).  ALSO - and I'm assuming they have some kind of medical professional advising them so there is no excuse for this - when you are dealing with a fetus that has symmetrical growth restriction, you MUST consider an infectious cause (TORCH infections - something every medical student has had to memorize) or a chromosomal abnormality.  You can't just jump to malnutrition.  Malnourished fetuses (and malnourished infants for that matter, as well), tend to be asymmetrically small - weight drops off first, then height, then head circumference LAST.  So a fetus not getting proper nutrients would be measuring small but with an asymmetrically large head because that is the last thing that is preserved.  That being said, if she is starving herself for the entirety of her pregnancy, HC would drop off as well, but out of proportion to length and estimated weight.

Worst of the worst is that Manning attempted to give her IV nutrition (probably just dextrose and electrolytes - not something that is going to magically plump up the fetus and an aggressive fluid regimen is not something I would start on anyone who may have compromised cardiac function) after the woman specifically said no.  Was the patient nuts?  Absolutely.  But her body, her choice until you get the proper people involved (OB, psych, nutrition), NOT a pediatric ED fellow (which I am assuming Manning is.  I can't remember exactly).  It's all just bad medicine, plain and simple. 

[starri]

9 hours ago, kgg said:

The pregnant patient that Manning and Halstead took care of - anything beyond stabilizing the arrhythmia is NOT an ED issue.

In fairness, plenty of things that the show handles aren't ED issues, they just happen in the ED for sake of drama.  ER was just as guilty of that.

The stuff with Natalie only grates because, well...Natalie.

[LillyB]

On 12/24/2017 at 6:59 PM, millahnna said:

Pregnant patient represented a particular variety of pseudo science believer that drives me especially batty so I was primed to be a bit forgiving of any horrid antics on the part of the main characters.  I wish they'd done a psych thing there.

Her midwife should have been on top of her diet issues. At least inform her that she needs to eat at least x grams of protein a day and more than 600 to 800 calories a day.