S05.E01: The Departed (1) / S05.E02: The Departed (2)

[formerlyfreedom]

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Tensions mount between the sons of Ragnar Lothbrok; with King Aethelwulf and his family still in hiding, Heahmund, the warrior bishop, rallies the Saxons to defend the Realm, as the Great Army moves to take York.

and

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Ivar is determined to lead the Great Army as the Vikings establish their stronghold in York; in Kattegat, Lagertha misjudges King Harald and pays a heavy price; Floki arrives at a mysterious land.

 

[Ohwell]

Can't wait!

[Son of the Norse]

Very excited!  Only a few hours left to go!!!!!!!

[millahnna]

I'm kind of an anti-fan of Jonathan Rhys Meyers; this is going to be a difficult season for me.  The role suits his tics and he's not nearly as terrible as he was on the Tudors.  But it's still not great.  Hit and miss premiere but outside of JRM, nothing I wasn't expecting.  The show really hasn't found its footing post-Ragnar.

[LittleIggy]

I can watch the blood eagling, but I couldn’t watch that massacre in the York cathedral. It was too much. Lagertha is as gorgeous and fierce as ever. So it’s going to be the Hot (Lagertha and Ubbe) v. the Not (Ivar and Harald) this season. Harald. Ugh! He just looks so dirty!

[BitterApple]

Ugh, this is such a nitpicky thing, but how much time has passed since Ecbert's death? Alfred and Guthrum are now solidly in their teens, and they looked to be 12-ish at most when we left off last season. Yet Laegertha, Judith and Torvi don't age at all. I know the writers need to keep the fanboys happy, but come on. 

I agree the premiere was up and down. I thought it was a decent episode, but I wasn't blown away. 

[magdalene]

I know his fan girls on tumblr would disagree but I cannot possibly root in any way for Ivar.  I want him dead.  What he did to that priest in the York cathedral was disgustingly and horrifically evil.   Ragnar could be ruthless when dealing with his enemies but he wasn't a sadistic psychopath.  Of the remaining sons of Aslaug and Ragnar I really only like Ubbe.

Urrgh and yuck! to Lagertha having sex with that piece of slime.

I am rooting for the Saxons - grow up soon, Alfred!

[CarbonCopy]

The guy who plays Ubbe REALLY looks like Ragnar circa season 1. Casting hit it out of the park with that one. No wonder Lagertha takes a liking to him! 

[mccartygirl]

2 minutes ago, CarbonCopy said:

The guy who plays Ubbe REALLY looks like Ragnar circa season 1. Casting hit it out of the park with that one. No wonder Lagertha takes a liking to him! 

I was just telling my husband that. There are times he will turn and he loos exactly like first season Travis Fimmel. Besides Bjorn, he is my fav Ragnar son. 

Did anyone else notice Queen/Princess Judith's look at the Bishop?? We have seen that look before with Athleston. Will she be humping on the Bishop next? I know he's not a fav here but I have I have always like Aethelwolf. I felt bad for him with how his father and wife treated him. I'm curious to see his arch this season. 

[Ohwell]

I was blown away by this episode and I loved everything about it!  I even like watching the "bad" guys like Ivar and Harald, and I think that Jonathan Rhys Meyers is an interesting addition to the cast.   I am fearing for Ubbe though, I don't like the way Ivar looks at him.

Lagertha doesn't seem to have aged much, but I noticed that Torvi has.  I suppose there's only so much makeup they can put on younger women to make them look older, without making them look false. 

It took me a while to get used to Floki without the eyeliner. 

I guess next week we'll see more of Bjorn exploring the Mediterranean.   I hope Harald's brother (can't remember his name) is not a traitor and really does want to be with Bjorn.  He seems to be genuine, but you never know with those Vikings, lol. 

[Babalooie]

Probably in the minority here, but I'm still pulling for a Floki goes to Iceland spinoff.  It won't happen because Gustaf  is in Westworld on HBO now, but I've always loved his acting in Vikings.

Edited December 1, 2017 by Babalooie

[BitterApple]

3 hours ago, mccartygirl said:

I know he's not a fav here but I have I have always like Aethelwolf. I felt bad for him with how his father and wife treated him. I'm curious to see his arch this season. 

I like him too! I've always rooted for him and I'm doing so even more now because I'm just not emotionally invested in any of Ragnar's sons. I appreciate that the show runners aren't giving us a sanitized version of history, but that massacre at York was brutal. I can't get behind Ivar, no matter how much the actor portraying him is slaying the role.

[MrsR]

Glad to see my Viking loves back and doing bad deeds and plotting like mad. Didn't mind JRM at all.

Looking forward to the rest of the season.

[green]

Well we should add in the clip show too "The Legend of Lagertha" since the History website lists it as S05.E00.  I really enjoyed seeing the clips again from the first two year especially.  And it is hard to sum up the past 4 seasons in 43 minutes but they did a good job of it to help out new viewers and to remind us old timers of all the twists and turns along the way.

14 hours ago, Ohwell said:

It took me a while to get used to Floki without the eyeliner. 

I guess next week we'll see more of Bjorn exploring the Mediterranean.   I hope Harald's brother (can't remember his name) is not a traitor and really does want to be with Bjorn.  He seems to be genuine, but you never know with those Vikings, lol. 

That's why Floki looked weird to me.  Haha didn't notice he was missing his soot eye look. 

Harold's brother is named Halfdan I think.  Why he is only half of Dan I do not know, heh.  I assume Michael Hirst stuck him aboard Bourn's ship more to have someone for Bourn to talk to on the voyage.  But if they didn't kill off Sigurd Snake-Eye he would have made a much better traveling companion than Halfdan.  Or even the brother with the weird(er) name than the others.  Hvirst or something like that?  The "other" one who never says anything anyway.  And yeah I still miss Sigurd.  He was the most interesting of the lot of the sons to me.

12 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I like him too! I've always rooted for him and I'm doing so even more now because I'm just not emotionally invested in any of Ragnar's sons. I appreciate that the show runners aren't giving us a sanitized version of history, but that massacre at York was brutal. I can't get behind Ivar, no matter how much the actor portraying him is slaying the role.

The above was in regards to Ubbe.  I don't think anyone in their right mind can get behind what Ivar is doing outside of some immature 14 year-old boys that think the worst and most gross of behaviors are "cool"because it upsets their parents.  Or possibly white supremacists groups who are into ISIS types of stuff.

But back to Ubbe.  I think that is why they had close-up shots of Ubbe looking totally horrified and disgusted at that slaughter to contrast him to Ivar.  The nun dying in his arms really effected him.  He refused to drink with his brothers afterwards etc.  He already looks the most Ragnar-like physically and will end up the more Ragnar-like in pov as well given his always quoting Ragnar and wanting their people to find another way to live.  He is being set up as the "good" Viking to Ivar's "bad" Viking. 

I don't know anything about the actor playing the warrior bishop but have read a lot of stuff on this thread about him.  So far he looks to be a below average actor to me.  Maybe that will change but for now I am not impressed.  And I hate that it looks like Hirst is setting up a Judith falling for his character thing in those glances.  Stop it already.  I like Judith and she has had enough of a rough life so do not let her end up with the Christian version of Ivar.

I thought people here thought Torvi was killed last season.  Glad she wasn't.  And glad her son by Jarl Borg is now a young man too.  He was a real historic character (forget his name though) and I remember how (in this show anyway) Lagertha became his protector when Torvi first went off with Bourn.  Weirdly right before the broadcast I was thinking it was kind of sad they seemed to have forgotten about this kid.  So I was both surprised and glad seeing him on screen. 

Now all we need to complete Vikings: The Next Generation is the kid that Ragnar fathered with Princess Crazy Pants (according to her anyway) to show up.  The one Aethelwulf secretly sent into exile at about age 12 to save his life after his mother was killed.

So will Asgrid (sp?) get married to Harold to actually gain power for herself or to remain loyal to Lagertha as best she can?  Because it is obvious she will marry Harold since there is no other real option.  Hope the former because I never cared for the character so she and Harold deserve each other as far as I am concerned.

Who was the blonde woman (that really narrows her down on Vikings, right, hah) that was with Torvi near the end of the episode?  The one warning Trovi that Lagertha was showing signs of growing old and soft.  Which she was in the sense that in her early days she probably would have just killed Harold and not just raped him then let him live. 

I'm really looking forward to seeing more of Alfred.  Aethelstan was the last somewhat gentle character and conscience of the show.  We need another asap to restore balance again.  More Alfred please!

Edited December 1, 2017 by green

[BitterApple]

I'm kind of curious as to how platinum haired Torvi and redheaded Jarl Borg managed to produce a son with dark brown hair. Again, a total nitpick, but I hate lazy casting. 

[LittleIggy]

I knew when Floki let the raven go that he would find land. I was shouting at the tv for him to do it. Glad Floki listened. ? 

[Evagirl]

1 hour ago, LittleIggy said:

I knew when Floki let the raven go that he would find land. I was shouting at the tv for him to do it. Glad Floki listened. ? 

I know Floki would be upset if he heard me say this, but releasing the raven and the raven finding land is similar to Noah releasing the raven to find land after the flood - ha!

[nowornever]

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Who was the blonde woman (that really narrows her down on Vikings, right, hah) that was with Torvi near the end of the episode?  The one warning Trovi that Lagertha was showing signs of growing old and soft.  Which she was in the sense that in her early days she probably would have just killed Harold and not just raped him then let him live. 

Wasn't that Margrethe, Ubbe's wife?  That has potential for an interesting storyline.  She has, in  one way or another, been used by pretty much everyone, including Lagertha.  I don't know where her loyalties would lie, if it came down to it.  

Overall, there was a lot going on, even for a double episode.  

Edited November 30, 2017 by nowornever

[magdalene]

Anybody else wish the kid who was playing Alfred last season was still doing the role?  He had a gentle presence I really enjoyed.  I wasn't too impressed with the recast so far. He came across kind of blank and boy bandy to me.

That was definitely Margrethe, Ubbe's wife in the Lagertha story line.

[peridot]

I didn't realize the premiere would be two episodes.  JRM (the bishop) kind of gave me the creeps.  He said all the "comforting priest" things, but it's like it's just lip service to him. What he says is always accompanied with a steel-eyed glare.

I'm glad to see more magical realism occur.  I was half expecting the actor who played Athelstan to briefly appear during the trance.  What was wrong with Alfred anyway?

Ivar is a complete monster, I can't root for him at all.  I was kind of sympathizing with him when he told his brothers that he had to push himself to be better than them because of his disability, but he's just too broken.

What the hell was that scene between Lagertha and Finehair?  Was she entertaining the thought of being his wife and wanted to try him out for a test drive?

I was glad to see Finehair's brother break off from him.  He has to be in his forties, right?  It's time for him to have an independent life. 
Finehair seems to be unstable without him.

[Son of the Norse]

I really enjoyed the show; it was so worth the wait.  Having binge watched all previous episodes over the last couple of weeks, I was ready to watch the beginning of season 5.

The bonus flash back show was well done; I enjoyed how it mixed old clips with new ones, and also how it was done with Ivar talking to the Seer.  The bonus part (about 6 minutes before the premier), having some of the stars live getting to watch the premier with us was icing on the cake.

Regarding Ivar; I have never seen the actor before, but I really am enjoying his rendition of a real life Viking that may or may not have had a disability.  I understand what he does and why he does it, (and I am not a 14 yr old, or a supremacist).  It is just very realistic that people have done cruel and unusual things in the world, and pouring some molten gold down someones throat is gross to look at; but I am 100% sure that a lot of worse things were done to people over the history of our world.  In that famous scene in Game of Thrones, when "Aquaman" poured a whole giant bucket of gold over the Khaleesi's brother, people cheered, not jeered. Being a person with disabilities my self, I cannot help but root for Ivar even if he does do rotten things.  I want him to succeed, and found his true affection for Floki very touching.

Regarding Floki, I was super excited when he landed on the beach with the black volcanic sand.  I guessed where he was right then and was overjoyed that I was correct.  Iceland is truly the land (Even today), where Viking roots are still the strongest.  When Floki thought; "I'm in Asgard, the home of the Gods" it brought a tear to my eye...I would of thought the same thing were I him back then.

Regarding Bjorn; He was, and still is my favorite character in the show, even more than Ragnar.  Bjorn vs the Bear/Berserker is still my favorite episode.  I hope the next show has more focus on him.  He truly should be the star of the show (besides, he is the only one with 2 equally cool parents)! :)

Regarding that new "Warrior Bishop", he seems to me like a hypocrite for sleeping around with all the ladies; and he also seems a little fanatical.  I think he will (in the show), be the Ying to Ivar's Yang, (aka, they are both "Kray-seee", as Sigurd used to say)!.

Regarding Lagertha, I think she did what she did to Finehair to show her dominance over him; she basically raped him.  He obviously did not "finish", while she did.  The more I think of it, the more I think she just raped him plain and simple to show him that she is in charge, not him!  She pulls off a BadA$$ shield maiden better than anyone I have ever seen.

I don't like the lady that went off (kidnapped) with Finehair; the actress playing her makes me think of a modern "emo", and not a true shield maiden.

Lastly, I will throw in my vote for a Floki or Bjorn spin-off!

regards,

SotN

[Ohwell]

47 minutes ago, Son of the Norse said:

Regarding Lagertha, I think she did what she did to Finehair to show her dominance over him; she basically raped him.  He obviously did not "finish", while she did.  The more I think of it, the more I think she just raped him plain and simple to show him that she is in charge, not him!  She pulls off a BadA$$ shield maiden better than anyone I have ever seen.

Yes, that's what I thought as well.  She was simply showing him who was "boss."  And I do believe she left him with blue balls. ; )

Ivar has, indeed, met his match with the Warrior Bishop, and I'm looking forward to them outcrazying each other.

51 minutes ago, Son of the Norse said:

It is just very realistic that people have done cruel and unusual things in the world, and pouring some molten gold down someones throat is gross to look at; but I am 100% sure that a lot of worse things were done to people over the history of our world. 

Yes, I wasn't disturbed by the pillaging of York because, while horrific, it wasn't at all unusual and, unfortunately, atrocities of all kinds are carried out even today.

[Straycat80]

I’m glad this show is back. I’ve gotten used to Ivar being crazy AF, but the scene with the priest bothered me. I like JRM and am looking forward to seeing more of him on the show.

 I like Lagertha being in a power position but she should have killed Harald. It was odd she let him live considering she roasted his invader guy alive.

Edited December 1, 2017 by Straycat80

[wlk68]

14 hours ago, CarbonCopy said:

The guy who plays Ubbe REALLY looks like Ragnar circa season 1. Casting hit it out of the park with that one. No wonder Lagertha takes a liking to him! 

I was just coming here to say the exact same thing. 

 

20 hours ago, magdalene said:

I know his fan girls on tumblr would disagree but I cannot possibly root in any way for Ivar.  I want him dead.  What he did to that priest in the York cathedral was disgustingly and horrifically evil.   Ragnar could be ruthless when dealing with his enemies but he wasn't a sadistic psychopath.  Of the remaining sons of Aslaug and Ragnar I really only like Ubbe.

 

I agree. .  

[LittleIggy]

I have a disability, but that doesn’t mean I root for that little psychopath Ivar. Anyway, on a shallow note, I wish JRM had longer hair in this. I like him with longer hair. ? 

[green]

8 hours ago, Evagirl said:

I know Floki would be upset if he heard me say this, but releasing the raven and the raven finding land is similar to Noah releasing the raven to find land after the flood - ha!

Actually there was a real historic Floki who sailed to Iceland (in his case with his family aboard the ship) and they did release ravens that brought them safely to shore.  (So did Ragnar in Season 1 on his first trip to England.  It was a common Viking practice).  Anyway this is the only historic Floki of note and served as the inspiration for Hirst's Floki.  So this scene with him arriving in Iceland with the help of the ravens has been waiting to happen for over 4 seasons.  Sad that Hirst didn't let Helga and his daughter both live and come with him however.

7 hours ago, nowornever said:

Wasn't that Margrethe, Ubbe's wife?  That has potential for an interesting storyline.  She has, in  one way or another, been used by pretty much everyone, including Lagertha.  I don't know where her loyalties would lie, if it came down to it.  

Overall, there was a lot going on, even for a double episode.  

 

6 hours ago, magdalene said:

Anybody else wish the kid who was playing Alfred last season was still doing the role?  He had a gentle presence I really enjoyed.  I wasn't too impressed with the recast so far. He came across kind of blank and boy bandy to me.

That was definitely Margrethe, Ubbe's wife in the Lagertha story line.

Thanks to you both.  I totally forgot about her during the off season.  She should become a major player then.

4 hours ago, Son of the Norse said:

Regarding Ivar; I have never seen the actor before, but I really am enjoying his rendition of a real life Viking that may or may not have had a disability.  I understand what he does and why he does it, (and I am not a 14 yr old, or a supremacist).  It is just very realistic that people have done cruel and unusual things in the world, and pouring some molten gold down someones throat is gross to look at; but I am 100% sure that a lot of worse things were done to people over the history of our world.  In that famous scene in Game of Thrones, when "Aquaman" poured a whole giant bucket of gold over the Khaleesi's brother, people cheered, not jeered. Being a person with disabilities my self, I cannot help but root for Ivar even if he does do rotten things.  I want him to succeed, and found his true affection for Floki very touching.

Well I'm a vegetarian.  And guess what?  Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian too.  Therefore I should root for Hitler?  I think not.

Understanding why people do horrible and sadistic things doesn't excuse their actions.  And just because other people have done cruel and unusual things throughout history doesn't mean it is ever okay to do those things and give Ivar a pass because other people have been equally as bad or worse.  You cannot rationalize away the raping and killing of the innocent no way no how.

I've been an amateur historian all my life so I am well aware that most people that make it into history books -- people in power -- have innocent blood on their hands.  It still never excuses their actions.  Ever.

Edited December 1, 2017 by green

[magdalene]

There are rotten things people do every day and there are certainly powerful men throughout  history who have done bad things to gain more power or keep power, etc.. However, as with everything else in life there are degrees of bad.   And some bad is so outside the norm that it is almost impossible to grasp that it exists.   Charles Manson recently died and he was evil in a way that I never could fathom.  Ivar is like that to me.  What he did to that priest wasn't just to horribly torture him to death - he laughed while he did it, he enjoyed himself. He isn't some misunderstood and abused puppy that bites every once in a while. 

I know Alex Hogh is a talented and intense actor and he has these striking eyes - but he could have the most beautiful eyes in the world and I still wouldn't be attracted to Ivar or be able to excuse his sadism and cruelty.

I wasn't thrilled when Ragnar blood-eagled Jarl Borg - I had to look away during those scenes - but I knew Borg had tried to kill Ragnar's family and I never thought that Ragnar was doing it for cruelty sake and was getting his rocks off while he did it.

That's just the way I feel and of course your mileage will vary.

[Haleth]

I have about 20 minutes left since the power went out while watching, but I get the gist of what happens.  As expected IMO the show has really lost something with the absence of Ragnar/Fimmel.  To me he was the most compelling character on tv.  That's not to say I didn't enjoy the show, but now I'm firmly on Team Saxon.  Love Bjorn but he's cruising the Med.  I may be able to get behind Ubbe, but Ivar isn't even a villain I love to hate.  It would be so easy to kill that little psychopath, but I know that's not going to happen.  Anyway, Jon Meyers is playing an interesting character and I look forward to Aethelwolf and Alfred renegotiating Ecbert's deal.  Sad to say I'm not really interested in Lagertha vs Harold.

I'm excited that Vikings has caught up with the first book and first season of The Last Kingdom series.  In it the main character is a young boy, taken after the fall of York/Jorvik as a slave.  I think it's Ubbe who becomes like a second father to him and Ivar terrifies him.  It's nice to see on Vikings that Ubbe is following in Ragnar's footsteps and thinking critically, rather than just raping and pillaging.

Ivar's only redeeming quality was his love for Floki.  I knew Floki would find land, but my heart sank when he tossed the compass and stone.  And I miss Helga too.

[benteen]

I really enjoyed this episode.  It started off slow for me and I agree that the lost of Ragnar/Fimmel is something that the show will never be able to replace.  But they still have a terrific set of actors, great production values and fascinating historical locations.

Not a surprise how impressive the action scenes continue to be, although they've definitely had better on this show.  Ivar is a monster but Alex Hogh seems to be the closest actor on the show to replicating what Fimmel had (though NO ONE has what Fimmel had).  The actor who plays Ubbe looks a LOT like Season 1 Ragnar and hell, even Floki looked like Ragnar in the scenes where he washes up on Iceland.

I liked the Saxon stuff a lot.  Aethelwolf has become one of the most compelling characters on the show and Moe Dunford has done a terrific job with him.  Judith continues to annoy me.  Alfred looks like a Culkin brother.  I feel bad for Alfred's older brother, the perennial afterthought.

Always love seeing Lagertha.  I don't know what the hell she was thinking not killing Harald.  Despite being an asshole, I'm glad that Harald is still alive as I'm actually entertained by his character.  Harald lost a queen but has gained a hairdresser....that's my name for Astrid, who is so modern in terms of appearance and speech that she completely takes me out of the show.  I continue to really like the development of Torvi.

Loved seeing Floki travel to Iceland and all the location/FX shooting.  That is something Vikings does better than anyone.  The thrill of discovery as the characters venture into the unknown.

Edited December 1, 2017 by benteen

[MaggieG]

2 hours ago, benteen said:

I liked the Saxon stuff a lot.  Aethelwolf has become one of the most compelling characters on the show and Moe Dunford has done a terrific job with him.  Judith continues to annoy me.  Alfred looks like a Culkin brother.  I feel bad for Alfred's older brother, the perennial afterthought.

Funny you say that, he actually reminded me of one of the Sprouse twins (I admit I'm watching a lot of Riverdale)

I enjoyed the premiere and I agree that Ubbe reminds me of Ragnar. I'm liking him the best. 

I"ve never cared for Astrid and I don't care if she marries Harald. Then Lagertha can kill them both.

I've never really liked Floki either so I was pretty bored with his sea adventure. I didn't start paying attention until he landed in Iceland. Wow that was some beautiful scenery. That waterfall! I know they did some CGI, especially with the volcano but I think the waterfall was real

[LilWharveyGal]

The waterfall reminded me of Skogafoss.  I was lucky enough to visit Iceland a few years ago and it was indeed amazing but unfortunately I did not have a religious vision.  :)  Skogafoss is near the black sand beaches and the volcano that recently erupted (don't ask me to spell its name), so it would jive with the general location of Floki's landing.

[Captanne]

I thought these two hours were the strongest of the series since Ragnar departed (and even some of the old Ragnar episodes were weak.)  It was powerful, substantial, excellent television.  Minor comments -- I'm not interested in Lagertha and Harald and am very disappointed

Spoiler

in the rape.  (There was another depiction on television of a woman raping a man which was heart-stoppingly powerful and sad which was on Farscape.  The worst thing about Lagertha committing rape is that it diminishes her character for me.)

 

The attack on the York church was fairly routine for the Vikings until the murder of the Bishop -- at which point we know for certain that Ivar is beyond even the most violent member of his own violent culture.  

I really enjoyed Aethelwolf's story.  I'm glad that he is being portrayed as nuanced but getting a sort of redemption as an older man.

I am NOT a fan of Floki at all -- but I thought his arc stole the show.  That was superior!  The performance, the sets, the CGI.  The whole thing was wonderful.  (Plus, I have a soft spot for the raven.)

 

Those are all really asides -- overall I thought these two hours were well spent!

[jackjill89]

Ivar is both disabled AND a psychopath. You can be both :)

I get his motivation with his brothers and I still remember having a tear in my eye when Ragnar told him that his disability made him strong. Him standing with his leg braces and walking up to his brothers was awesome. He does have more to prove. I get it. 

That being said, he's also sadistic and the cruelty he shows when in battle is horrific. However, Vikings were barbaric in nature. We root for these people because we've gotten to know their characters, but truth be told, all of them were violent by nature. Kill or be killed. It's how they lived. They conquered and pillaged. We've seen throughout the show there are Vikings who are more violent than others, but anyone who conquers and pillages is violent. None of these characters are innocent. 

I think Ivar is very complicated. He obviously has a penchant for violence. He killed a playmate as a young child. He was coddled by his mother. Mocked by his brothers and largely forgotten by his father for years. He would be a therapist's dream. I think the actor who portrays him nails it. I can have some sympathy for him one minute and hate him the next. He's a good character. Certainly more interesting than the other throw away brother (not Ubbe or Bjorn). Those two middle brothers were/are cannon fodder in the Viking wars. Can't say I was sad to see the bad hair one go. They've shown nothing of interest to me. Ivar is interesting to me. Is he cruel and horrible? Yes. Is he more violent for the sake of it? Yes. But I do find him interesting. There are layers there IMO. 

I kind of wish Astrid would get lost at sea. I can't stand her and she has added nothing to the show.

Are the brothers still sharing Margarethe or did Ubbe get her?

[green]

1 hour ago, jackjill89 said:

Are the brothers still sharing Margarethe or did Ubbe get her?

Ubbe married her but if I recall right he still shares her with Hvitserk (yes I looked up the spelling finally) who is the middle brother that never says anything much.  Both Margarethe and Hvitserk wanted it that way since they seem to be in love with each other and Ubbe obliged.

Edited December 1, 2017 by green

[BitterApple]

I agree Astrid adds nothing to the show. Her being Laegertha's girlfriend comes off as so clichéd. They're not believable as a couple at all. Back in the early seasons I always thought Siggy looked too modern for the show, but Astrid is even worse. I wouldn't be sad to see her go. We're already seeing Margrethe being set up as Kattegat's version of Littlefinger, so she'll probably be dispatched at some point as well.

[Captanne]

I never warmed to Siggy, either.  Bless her heart.  I did think she had a cool death, though.

Astrid has never been fully explained (that I remember) so I'm not sure what she is even doing on the show.  

[Son of the Norse]

The vegetarian thing made me laugh :)  Of course one wouldn't root for Hitler; he was real. The horrible things he commanded or allowed to be done was horrible.  Everyone has to remember, that Ivar in the TV show is a character from one man's mind.  Did the real Ivar really pour molten metal down some guy's gullet?  Probably not.  It would of been much easier just to chop his head off.

I think people have to realize this is just a dramatization of things that may have happened; but more than likely nothing even close did.

If Ivar bothers you at all, or if you are disgusted at what he does in the show, or if you ever have to turn away at a fake death or blood eagle then the writer and the crew are doing their job.  Entertain us, and shock us, and make us have an emotional response to what you see on the screen.  The more you love or loath a character, the more the writer is doing his job wonderfully, and you (and me) are validating how great he is doing by our comments.  I recommend we don't make broad comments on who would or would not like certain characters.

It is when we fail to comment on something or someone, that shows the writer he has a little work to do.

Maybe I am just too jaded.  I served in Combat and have been a first hand witness to gruesome, and horrible injuries and death covering 3 decades.  Maybe it toughens ones soul to bare witness to such things... When I see Ivar do what many cannot watch, I tend to think; "wow, that looked gross.  Good Job writer and crew".

5 hours ago, jackjill89 said:

Ivar is both disabled AND a psychopath. You can be both :)

I get his motivation with his brothers and I still remember having a tear in my eye when Ragnar told him that his disability made him strong. Him standing with his leg braces and walking up to his brothers was awesome. He does have more to prove. I get it. 

That being said, he's also sadistic and the cruelty he shows when in battle is horrific. However, Vikings were barbaric in nature. We root for these people because we've gotten to know their characters, but truth be told, all of them were violent by nature. Kill or be killed. It's how they lived. They conquered and pillaged. We've seen throughout the show there are Vikings who are more violent than others, but anyone who conquers and pillages is violent. None of these characters are innocent. 

I think Ivar is very complicated. He obviously has a penchant for violence. He killed a playmate as a young child. He was coddled by his mother. Mocked by his brothers and largely forgotten by his father for years. He would be a therapist's dream. I think the actor who portrays him nails it. I can have some sympathy for him one minute and hate him the next. He's a good character. Certainly more interesting than the other throw away brother (not Ubbe or Bjorn). Those two middle brothers were/are cannon fodder in the Viking wars. Can't say I was sad to see the bad hair one go. They've shown nothing of interest to me. Ivar is interesting to me. Is he cruel and horrible? Yes. Is he more violent for the sake of it? Yes. But I do find him interesting. There are layers there IMO. 

I kind of wish Astrid would get lost at sea. I can't stand her and she has added nothing to the show.

Are the brothers still sharing Margarethe or did Ubbe get her?

Nice way to summarize.  I agree with this 100%

[magdalene]

They cut some important stuff from the TV version of the episode. On the Amazon Prime version I was told they show Ivar burning the two little boy prisoners at the stake and Ubbe being disgusted by it and not participating in the killing.

I hope Ubbe will eventually get to a point where he and Ivar have a big falling out over Ivar's atrocities.

[Ohwell]

6 minutes ago, magdalene said:

They cut some important stuff from the TV version of the episode. On the Amazon Prime version I was told they show Ivar burning the two little boy prisoners at the stake and Ubbe being disgusted by it and not participating in the killing.

I hope Ubbe will eventually get to a point where he and Ivar have a big falling out over Ivar's atrocities.

I wondered what happened to those two little boys but figured they were not long for this world after they gave Ivar the information he wanted.  Even though it's just a show, I'm glad they didn't show them getting killed and I think we were to just assume that they didn't live.  

[green]

1 hour ago, Son of the Norse said:

The vegetarian thing made me laugh :)  Of course one wouldn't root for Hitler; he was real. The horrible things he commanded or allowed to be done was horrible.  Everyone has to remember, that Ivar in the TV show is a character from one man's mind.  Did the real Ivar really pour molten metal down some guy's gullet?  Probably not.  It would of been much easier just to chop his head off.

I think people have to realize this is just a dramatization of things that may have happened; but more than likely nothing even close did.

 

Ivar had the worst reputation of any of the Vikings among the English chroniclers.  Ivar was very real too and known for his cruelty.

But we are talking about Ivar on this show in this drama and you seemed to think he was not that bad a guy.  And the guy you were referring to was this show's Ivar.  So I still don't understand how anyone could defend this version of Ivar period.  So he had a rough childhood.  So what.  Tons of people do and they don't go out and become sadists or unfeeling psychopaths because of it.  There is zero excuse for his actions in this show.  Or in history since he invaded a country that had never threatened his after all.

[raven]

So...how many episodes you figure before Bishop Heahmund is in bed with Judith?  Two?

Not particularly interested in the Heahmund character, I guess it's OK to "sin" as long as run through a bunch of thorns.  It should be interesting when he inevitably clashes with Ivar.

I thought it was a strong premiere but I don't like what they're doing with Lagertha.   There was also no explanation for why Harald was suddenly running around.  Does Lagertha have a plan with him that involved kidnapping Astrid for some reason so she let him go?  Torvi is talking with someone about how he escaped, how did that happen, why didn't we see it? 

I think one of the problems with the Kattegut storyline is that the actors aren't the strongest. 

6 hours ago, jackjill89 said:

I think Ivar is very complicated. He obviously has a penchant for violence. He killed a playmate as a young child. He was coddled by his mother. Mocked by his brothers and largely forgotten by his father for years. He would be a therapist's dream. I think the actor who portrays him nails it. I can have some sympathy for him one minute and hate him the next. He's a good character. Certainly more interesting than the other throw away brother (not Ubbe or Bjorn). Those two middle brothers were/are cannon fodder in the Viking wars. Can't say I was sad to see the bad hair one go. They've shown nothing of interest to me. Ivar is interesting to me. Is he cruel and horrible? Yes. Is he more violent for the sake of it? Yes. But I do find him interesting. There are layers there IMO. 

I agree with this.   I don't feel sorry for him, though I thought the scene when Floki leaves was well done (Stand up and say that to my face) but I think he's an interesting character.  Yes he's sadistic, so is (was?) Floki (priest torture among other things) and Rollo (rape).   Ubbe may be the more thoughtful one but does he have the drive that Ivar does?  It's as if the show is dividing up some of Ragnar's traits among his sons.  Bjorn has the wanderlust.  Hvitserk seems to be a peacemaker of sorts, it is hard to tell.   Ivar has humor - the way he says "I'm a cripple" when his brothers ask him why he needs bodyguards and presence - the scene where he stands to face them at the end was intense and compelling.

I'm interested in Floki's journey and am hoping we see more of Bjorn soon. 

Quote

(Plus, I have a soft spot for the raven.)

So do I!

[BitterApple]

15 minutes ago, raven said:

I thought it was a strong premiere but I don't like what they're doing with Lagertha.   There was also no explanation for why Harald was suddenly running around.  Does Lagertha have a plan with him that involved kidnapping Astrid for some reason so she let him go?  Torvi is talking with someone about how he escaped, how did that happen, why didn't we see it? 

 

I know it's early, but I'm not feeling Lagertha's story arc either. She's too much of a bad ass to be frittering her time away sitting on a throne and attending to administrative duties back in Kattegat. I know that comes with the territory but I want her traveling with Bjorn, kicking ass and taking names. I guess her actions scenes will come with the eventual civil war, but I miss the days when she was out on the road with Ragnar and Co. Kattegat has become the series' weak link, IMO. 

Edited December 2, 2017 by BitterApple

[Bongo Fury]

So Lagertha imprisons King Finehair, but leaves all his armed men free to wander about Kattegat and work on a plan to break him out? Now that is real plot stupidity on display.

 

I think Ivar is setting up the Bishop with the 'obvious' lack of repairs to the one section of the defenses. Ivar may be a sick fuck, but he certainly isn't that stupid.

 

The arc of the Floki character throughout the series has be great, and shows why he is one of my favorite characters. Quirky and flawed, but never boring.

[magdalene]

I have always liked Judith more than some other folks do but I had to roll my eyes when she kept screaming her head off instead of helping Aethelwulf save Alfred from drowning.

I have probably liked Lagertha less than a lot of other people for quite a while now and her raping Harald Finehair did not endear her to me. And I have always loathed Finehair and his icky brother.   I wonder what people would say if a male character on the show raped a tied up female?

I know full well that Lagertha will never be killed off as long as this show is on the air but I would be totally okay if Lagertha was killed off this season.

[thuganomics85]

Vikings is back!  Well, it was actually back Wednesday, but sadly I now work during that evening.  And I didn't realize that this was two hours, so I didn't have time Thursday either.  Better late then never!

I almost felt bad over how darkly funny I found parts of Sigurd's death/funeral here, but between Bjorn's "I leave you guys alone for five minutes and you're already killing one another!" face and Ivar half-hearted "My bad!", that made him come off like he only wrecked the car or ruined family dinner, I was chuckling more then I care to admit.  This is one twisted family.  Really don't blame Bjorn for wanted to get the hell out of here because he's earned a break.

They definitely seem to be setting up major conflict between Ubbe and Ivar, with the former more like his father and somewhat reasonable and compassionate at times (well, for a Viking at least), while Ivar is just a full-blown psychopath.  Hvitserk is still the big question mark for me.  Still think Alex Høgh is owning the role of Ivar and is managing to make him almost come off like a monster in a horror film, with the way he drags himself towards his victims during battle.  Creepy.

Floki goes on a little journey of self-discovery and winds up in a new place.  Still getting use to him without eye-liner.

Jonathan Rhys Meyers is playing Bishop Heahmund who seems to be some kind of warrior bishop and has a thing for the ladies, which naturally leads to him running through the forests and yelling at God over his self-guilt.  Also, he and Judith are totally going to hook-up, right?  I'm kind of feeling bad for Aethelwulf now.  The fact that he still treats Alfred like his own son even though he knows Athelstan was the father makes him alright in my book.

So, Lagertha gets Harald in her clutches and she.... rapes him and apparently just let his men go around unsupervised, so they not only break him back out, but kidnap Astrid as well (because Harald wants her as his "queen.")  Also Margrethe seems to be suggesting to Torvi that they make their own play against Lagertha, since she is vulnerable.  Yeah, not a great episode for her.

Overall, I still feel like the show is bit in the awkward stage where Ragnar/Travis Fimmel's absence is noticeable, but I still think they are slowly getting there.  I'm still intrigued over what is in store for the rest of these characters, so that's a win in my book.

Edited December 3, 2017 by thuganomics85

[Ohwell]

12 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

I almost felt bad over how darkly funny I found parts of Sigurd's death/funeral here, but between Bjorn's "I leave you guys alone for five minutes and you're already killing one another!" face and Ivar half-hearted "My bad!", that made him come off like he only wrecked the car or ruined family dinner, I was chuckling more then I care to admit.  This is one twisted family.  Really don't blame Bjorn for wanted to get the hell out of here because he's earned a break.

I love that description of the brothers' reactions to Sigurd's murder/funeral.  So accurate.

[Son of the Norse]

Lagertha is such a strong character, and I also would love to see her out raiding with a strong male companion.  Only problem, there are no males that I feel are worthy of her right now, except Bjorn.

Also, it is too bad that Finehair comes off as such an unlikable character.  King Harald Finehair (formally shaggy hair), had a large part in the Vikings history and the colonization of Iceland.  Will his new "emo" girlfriend be the mother of "Blood Axe"?

Also, regressing here; I wonder if Egil will ever make an appearance before the show ends?  It is very possible since the timeline on the show is kind of helter skelter anyway. :)

[SingleMaltBlonde]

On 11/30/2017 at 1:34 PM, BitterApple said:

I'm kind of curious as to how platinum haired Torvi and redheaded Jarl Borg managed to produce a son with dark brown hair. Again, a total nitpick, but I hate lazy casting. 

I have a blonde parent and a redheaded parent and a brunette sibling.  3/4 Norwegian as well.

[benteen]

Ivar's crawling is so creepy and he really does look inhuman when he does it.

[Babalooie]

42 minutes ago, benteen said:

Ivar's crawling is so creepy and he really does look inhuman when he does it.

Props to Alex's acting and upper body strength training.