S03.E01: Speak Your Truth

[WendyCR72]

As the third season opens, the doctors of Chicago Med take their opinions to the extreme as they try to bring justice to the perpetrator in the shooting of Dr. Charles. Dr. Halstead and Dr. Manning work on a heart-wrenching case that forces them to examine their own matters of the heart. Though Robin’s brain tumor was removed and she is discharged from the rehabilitation center, Dr. Rhodes remains on edge that her problems are not quite resolved. Meanwhile, Rhodes gets blindsided by his colleague Dr. Bekkar, Maggie sticks up for a patient and Dr. Choi and April try to navigate their new working relationship.

[Lady Calypso]

I feel like I'm starting to get a little tired of the show in general. This premiere wasn't bad, per say, but I wasn't really interested in most of it.

Ok, I will start off with the surprising: I liked Natalie and Will's subplot together. There, I said it. I was actually not fast forwarding through their scenes or yelling at my TV screen. Both were competent! Both did their jobs correctly! Both were not breaking the rules! They kept their drama to the bare minimum! Yay! Also, now that I've grown a deeper hatred for April and Choi together, they may have been saved my wrath for a while. And it looks like they're going to just put them together, so maybe them as a couple will be better than them with the unresolved tension. 

April's nurse co-worker is a bitch, plain and simple. I didn't think April did anything that wrong, but I'm tired of the relationship hiding trope that shows do. Ok, you're a couple. Suck it up and tell people, because then they wouldn't be whispering behind your back and then assuming you're getting perks for sleeping with your superior. Frankly, there's still less than zero chemistry between them to begin with. I felt nothing in any of their scenes together. Well, maybe annoyance. Oh, and hatred for Choi getting stuck in a dumbass romantic trope storyline. 

I was on Reese's side for the whole shooter storyline. I do see Dr. Charles' whole point of view about getting the guy help, but Sharon also confirmed that it wasn't really just about that, but more about his own guilt. I like that she called him out, because I think if the guy was let go to an mental hospital instead, he could have been let go and judging by his anger toward Reese, she would have likely been his next target. I don't like now the friction between the two. I have a bad feeling it might last for most of the season. 

God, Ava Becker is a downright manipulative woman. I'm glad to see that my opinion of her after so many months hasn't changed. I thoroughly hated how she stole Connor's surgery and manipulated poor Dr. Latham. However, I'm now happier that Latham figured it out and then gave Connor the better surgery. I really am not looking forward to whatever they're planning with Connor and Ava, as I fear it'll turn romantic. 

I liked Connor/Robin's scenes here. It's a shame Mekia Cox is on another show, because it does feel like they're opening up her exit from the show. 

Meh on the Maggie storyline with Stohl. And also meh on the cases this week. For once, I didn't care about a single one of them, and none of them made me cry, not even the woman losing her husband. 

[spunky]

This Ethan/April romance died before it began, it's just another Will and Natalie. April might as well come clean about their relationship because Ethan is making it very obvious. I'm with Doris, it is unfair that April gets to be the princess of the ER based on who she's dating, while Doris is being treated like housekeeping. 

I liked Maggie explaining to Dr. Stohl, the tale of two Chicago's. I liked that he understood and helped the young man. I agree with Dr. Charles that mental illness should be treated and not punished, but his shooter had the presence of mind to not only get a gun, but conceal it and wait for Dr. Charles outside of the hospital.  Both Sarah and Sharon were correct, Dr. Charles was in his own personal feelings and not thinking as a mental health professional.

I loved Dr. Latham allowing the annoying surgeon to think that she played both him and Connor, when in fact she played herself. Writers please don't try to turn this into some epic romance, just don't. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I can't believe that I used to love this show.  I guess, I'm just not wild about the characters anymore.  When everyone said that Natalie had been gone for 3 months, I said, MAN, why couldn't we see the hospital when she's gone.  I don't care for her and in fact, I can't stand to look at her. So, I'll have to avoid all her scenes.  It also just seems like too much same old, same old........I got that way over Grey's Anatomy too, but, I thought this was a better show.   I'll give it another week and see. 

[weathered1]

I've got to echo everyone else's thoughts. This show, at least for me, has become decidedly meh. At best. While the episode wasn't bad, relatively speaking, I found myself just not caring about anything I was seeing. 

Connor has been one of my favorites since the show began, but the retread of the Robin issues, the fact that he was only allowed to be happy for approximately 2.4 seconds, and the utterly unpleasant feeling (it's actually more of a certainty) that the show will go the way of a predictable hookup (at least) with the utterly unnecessary, totally loathsome Becker, did not sit well with me.  The one and only one thing I liked about his scenes tonight: Latham. 

April and Choi. Ye gods. It's not surprising at this point that the show took what was a bad idea in the first place and made it even worse. Hiding the relationship is so boring, and frankly, it makes both of them look bad. I fully despise April now, so I couldn't muster up any sympathy when bitchy Doris was being so flagrantly awful. Choi deserves so much better than this. 

The Dr. Charles plotline was decent, and I liked that Reese took action when she felt like he was making a huge mistake, and that Sharon delivered a heaping dose of the truth to him, but something about all of it just left me cold. 

The Maggie and Stohl story? I couldn't have cared less, which also describes how I felt about all of the patients. It all just seemed so paint-by-numbers and dull to me. 

Finally, Will and Natalie. I see the show has finally decided to just shove them together, so at least the obnoxious angst (at least in that respect) of their (alleged) mutual yearning is over. Even when both of them were being competent at their jobs - for once - I . . . just didn't care. 

I've watched this show since the pilot, and I feel like it's gone downhill to an extent that I can't ignore anymore. When it's gotten to a point where I'm just not interested in the characters, it may be time for me to find something else to watch. Maybe the next episode will be better, but if not, I think I'm done with this show. 

[Sandman]

It felt like the subtitle of this episode should have been "Wait -- What?" Primarily because I can't believe Dr. Charles was qualified by any court to testify as to his professional opinion in a case in which he was the victim. Nor should Sarah have been able to testify regarding her friend and mentor. Does conflict of interest just not exist in Dick Wolf's version of Chicago? Or is Peter Stone just incompetent? (No wonder they took your show away, Junior.)

I agree that Choi and April need to act like adults and tell people -- I was waiting the whole episode for April to point out that if Choi's consistently assigning the scut work to the nurse he's not sleeping with, people are gonna notice. Even the nimrods in this hospital aren't that blind.

I have zero interest (or possibly less) in seeing Dr. Stohl the Troll's heart grow three sizes -- why is Livingston Dolt still on my tv screen? Wait -- what? Now he's fudging test results to keep a patient under care? He's awful, he appears to be only marginally competent, and he can take the odious, pointless Bekkar with him. Her sophomoric manipulation belongs on Grey's Anatomy.

I was really hoping that we'd seen the last of Robin's gothic nightmare version of mental illness. I don't find Mekia Cox and Colin Donnell have notable chemistry (Torrey Devitto and Nick Gehlfuss have more, even if their plots make me grind my teeth. #sorrynotsorry) so I'm finding it hard to invest in their happiness over the long term. I think the mutual mentorship (professional and interpersonal skill-building) that Rhodes and Latham have going on is far more interesting. So three months apart was all it took for Red Halstead and Dr. Manning to fling themselves together? Wait -- what?  

Daniel used to be the sharpest, most competent, most engaging character on the show -- he seems to have been dumbed down considerably. I also find it faintly astonishing that Noah is actually a doctor now. I know he graduated at the end of the season, but "Dr. Sexton" is still a little bit of a "Wait -- WHAT?" for me.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Sandman

[FnkyChkn34]

17 minutes ago, Sandman said:

It felt like the subtitle of this episode should have been "Wait -- What?" Primarily because I can't believe Dr. Charles was qualified by any court to testify as to his professional opinion in a case in which he was the victim. Nor should Sarah have been able to testify regarding her friend and mentor. Does conflict of interest just not exist in Dick Wolf's version of Chicago? Or is Peter Stone just incompetent? (No wonder they took your show away, Junior.)

Dr. Charles was called as a witness for the defendant, so while I agree with your first comment - how was he qualified? - it also had nothing to do with Peter Stone.

[Sandman]

There's a process at trial for qualification of an expert witness to testify, in which the prosecution has the right to bring objections, if the witness doesn't have the necessary expertise, or may have another limitation on the value of their proposed testimony, including, unless I'm very much mistaken, an apparent conflict of interest. If Peter had been doing his job he would have raised that as an objection, and I don't think he would have sought Sarah's testimony, either, for much the same reason.

[FnkyChkn34]

9 minutes ago, Sandman said:

There's a process at trial for qualification of an expert witness to testify, in which the prosecution has the right to bring objections, if the witness doesn't have the necessary expertise, or may have another limitation on the value of their proposed testimony, including, unless I'm very much mistaken, an apparent conflict of interest. If Peter had been doing his job he would have raised that as an objection, and I don't think he would have sought Sarah's testimony, either, for much the same reason.

You may have a point, but also, now that I think about it further - wasn't Dr. Charles called as a witness as the victim?  Hmm...  well, it's a doctor show, not a lawyer show.  Maybe we aren't to think about things that much. ;-)  

[Sandman]

Probably not, but I want to think that the writers are thinking about the difference between the doctoring show and the lawyering shows. If Dr. Charles was called to testify as the victim, then he shouldn't be asked questions in his professional capacity -- you're a witness to a crime or you're the victim of a crime, or you're a professional with expertise on technical matters, and your professional qualifications, knowledge, and conclusions need to be tested for their genuineness, their relevance, their soundness and their objectivity. Daniel can't possibly be objective on this patient. (The Daniel Charles of the first season would be the first one to point this out, I think. It's too bad, because Oliver Platt is maybe the strongest member of the cast, and I think he's being wasted lately.)

Edited November 22, 2017 by Sandman

[MakeMeLaugh]

I thought I was watching General Hospital instead of Chicago Med but then thought that might be an insult to GH. 

If only Natalie had taken acting lessons during her imaginary sabbatical. At least she and Halsted’s brother will share the same hair color soon. I already miss Nina.

Reese used to be my favorite but the stick up her high horse is taking care of that. April and anyone is too hard to see, and for her too with those giant hairbrushes she is wearing as eyelashes. Can’t we just be done with ridiculously long eyelashes? And thanks writers for ruining my second favorite character, Dr. Choi.

Tired of Robin’s drama, more tired of long-suffering Connor. Dr. Charles needs to go back to being season 1 Dr. Charles. If S’epatha stops being her perfect self I might really start watching General Hospital.

Edited November 22, 2017 by MakeMeLaugh

[mrsbagnet]

20 hours ago, Sandman said:

- I was waiting the whole episode for April to point out that if Choi's consistently assigning the scut work to the nurse he's not sleeping with, people are gonna notice

I was waiting for this, too. It would have been so easy to say during their two hushed conversations. Too obvious for this show I guess. TBH I wish they'd bring back Choi's GF from the first season.

Edited November 23, 2017 by mrsbagnet

[thewhiteowl]

I have not watched consistently and was not aware of the Choi\April thing but was wondering WTH because since when do doctors have to tell a nurse something needs to be cleaned up or assign a specific nurse to do it?  That took me out of the scene then I had to wonder why so I thought Doris while bitchy was justified. It was odd and April's make up looked like she was ready to hit the stage on DWTS. 

[starri]

Why is it any of Resting Nurse Face's business who April is and isn't sleeping with?

Oh, I'm so close to checking out.

[statsgirl]

As much as I loved this show in its first season it's been on a steep decline since the start of s2. I wonder if they changed showrunners.

Good thing:  Latham is back.  I really like that character and  his relationship with Rhodes.  And that's it for good things about this episode.  Okay, maybe Stroh becoming a bit more human.

I really think Charles should dump Reese as his resident.  Hard.  Natural consequences.  She crossed lines she totally should not have and she was just as emotionally involved as Charles was.  I went from liking her to hating her more than Manning, which is quite a feat.  Also, and I never thought I'd say this but STFU Sharon. You're not a psychiatrist no matter how much you think you are.

Becker is just as awful as she was in the last episode.  Why is she still around?  She's not even good in the "love to hate" kind of way.

Isn't it against the rules for the donor's family and the recipient to meet?

3 hours ago, starri said:

Why is it any of Resting Nurse Face's business who April is and isn't sleeping with?

Because she gets stuck cleaning up the pus while Choi sends April on the nicer run of taking the samples to the lab and Other Nurse blames the unfairness on the fact that April is sleeping with Choi.  Also there is no chemistry at all between April and Choi.  It's like they were put together because the writers didn't know what else to do with them.

(trivia:  I worked on a project evaluating jobs.  Most people think that working in a garage is a dirty job because there's grease and road dirt, but being a nurse is a much dirtier job.)

The current administration hadn't eliminated the children's health insurance during more of the boy's life, it was still Obama.  Why didn't his mother have the money to take him to the doctor then?

On 11/21/2017 at 11:53 PM, spunky said:

 I agree with Dr. Charles that mental illness should be treated and not punished, but his shooter had the presence of mind to not only get a gun, but conceal it and wait for Dr. Charles outside of the hospital.  Both Sarah and Sharon were correct, Dr. Charles was in his own personal feelings and not thinking as a mental health professional.

Just because he got a gun and shot Charles doesn't mean that he wasn't suffering from either mental illness or delusions.  Look at his outburst in the court room, that's not a mentally health man.  And Reese was way wrong that he would get treatment in jail.  If mentally ill people got treatment in jail, there would be a lot fewer people in jail.

Ashley Smith had a normal childhood but at age 13 she started showing some disruptive behaviours.  When she was 14, she was put into a Youth Centre for throwing crab apples at a post and other similar behaviours.  She continued to show disruptive behaviours and in spite of being diagnosed with ADHD, learning disorder and personality disorder, she was pepper-sprayed, tasered and often put into solitary confinement which is the worst thing they could have done.  Over the next 3 years she had more than 800 incidents and 150 cases of self harm.  When she was 18 she was transferred to a women's facility.  She was still self-harming so guards were told not to intervene because it was just her trying to get attention.  At 19, having spent almost all of the past 5 years in prison from actions like throwing apples at a mailman, she tied a ligature around her neck. The guards watched her for 45 minutes before finally going in. She was dead.  It was a horribly tragic screw-up by the penal system to fail to treat her mental illness even though it had been diagnosed.

I was at a workshop on mattering a couple of weeks ago.  The psychologist told about a colleague of his who had told a patient that he didn't have time to see her that day.  She cut herself and smeared the blood around the walls of the hallway.  Then she went to him and said "Do I matter enough for you to see me now?"  He cancelled his other plans and saw her because he's a good clinician and he knew that if she was willing to do that, there was something wrong.

My mother had a saying that translates as "A man can be a shop keeper and a Christian."  Or in this case, Charles can gave his personal feelings about the man but that doesn't mean that he also wasn't right that the man wasn't responsible for his actions by reason of insanity.  Certainly Charles would know better than Reese who has all of one year of psychiatric training and has her own major issues of her father substitute almost dying or Sharon who doesn't have any psychiatric training at all and probably had never met the patient.

[bounnatalie]

After this episode, I realized I'm really not remotely interested in any of the characters. Well, Latham as the exception.  I don't care about Natalie and Halstead's romance, Choi and April are boring and seem like a relationship of convenience. Wasn't she practically married and pregnant, then broken up shortly before the three month hiatus?  Robin and Connor are over the top and too much. I can't imagine him sticking around for much longer with all that stress. Also, not sure but it seemed unrealistic that the nurses would be cleaning things like that. Nurses are well educated and skilled, so it seemed like that wouldn't be the best use of their skills.  The cases are meh, so that isn't distracting me from the character's flaws and my lack of relationship with them. Not sure how I will proceed with this season, but it's looking like a "DVR to save for a day when there is literally nothing else on or I'm home sick."

[Netfoot]

6 hours ago, statsgirl said:

The psychologist told about a colleague of his who had told a patient that he didn't have time to see her that day.  She cut herself and smeared the blood around the walls of the hallway.  Then she went to him and said "Do I matter enough for you to see me now?"

To which he should have maybe told her she was getting a bill for the redecorating, and that he still didn't have time to see her that day?

[SunnyBeBe]

With all the talent there should be with writers in the tv industry, wouldn't you think the top network dramas could find some really good ones?  I mean.....it's a great premise for a show, imo.  And, I think it started out really good.  I was very excited with the show when it first came out.  I liked it more than Code Black.  Oh well.....I always felt that I should have gone with some sort of a writing career.  I pushed it aside though.  Oh well......hindsight. lol  As it turns out even poor writers can get work in Hollywood.  

[Ailianna]

8 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Just because he got a gun and shot Charles doesn't mean that he wasn't suffering from either mental illness or delusions.  Look at his outburst in the court room, that's not a mentally health man.  And Reese was way wrong that he would get treatment in jail.  If mentally ill people got treatment in jail, there would be a lot fewer people in jail.

 

My mother had a saying that translates as "A man can be a shop keeper and a Christian."  Or in this case, Charles can gave his personal feelings about the man but that doesn't mean that he also wasn't right that the man wasn't responsible for his actions by reason of insanity.  Certainly Charles would know better than Reese who has all of one year of psychiatric training and has her own major issues of her father substitute almost dying or Sharon who doesn't have any psychiatric training at all and probably had never met the patient.

Having a mental illness doesn't mean you're not responsible for your crimes automatically, though, any more than being a drug addict means you are not responsible.  You can have a mental illness that precludes you from knowing right from wrong, which would prevent you from being held responsible, but it's not a get out of jail free card.  I know that sounds flip, but there is a wide spectrum of mental health problems, from things that are relatively minor and would never cause someone to commit a crime to serious problems that make a person incapable of living in normal society.  

What I like to believe we didn't see in the trial but that we did hear about was that 3 (I think) other psychiatrists already testified, and Dr. Charles should not have been allowed to testify as an expert in this case, but was, so that's why someone else with a personal connection testified in rebuttal.  I think the cross of Dr. Charles (which we didn't see) should have also exposed Dr. Charles' guilt feelings, but it's a doctor show, not a lawyer show.

[Lady Calypso]

8 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Because she gets stuck cleaning up the pus while Choi sends April on the nicer run of taking the samples to the lab and Other Nurse blames the unfairness on the fact that April is sleeping with Choi.  Also there is no chemistry at all between April and Choi.  It's like they were put together because the writers didn't know what else to do with them.

So true. I do put blame on all three parties, though. The reason why I'm mad at Doris as well is that she's also not telling this stuff to Choi because he is still her superior, yet she feels it's fine to tell all of this to April, who she isn't as afraid of telling because they're both on the same level. It also sounds like she's merely jealous, especially since she has no proof of the two sleeping together. But also, why not have this subplot in the second or third episode, when we've actually seen more instances of Choi giving favourable treatment to April?

But yeah, no chemistry between the two and I don't get why they were randomly shoved together in the finale last season. It makes zero sense. Even with April's brother and Reese, at least they attempted to build that up a few episodes before it happened. April/Choi felt out of nowhere.

8 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I really think Charles should dump Reese as his resident.  Hard.  Natural consequences.  She crossed lines she totally should not have and she was just as emotionally involved as Charles was.  I went from liking her to hating her more than Manning, which is quite a feat.  Also, and I never thought I'd say this but STFU Sharon. You're not a psychiatrist no matter how much you think you are.

I really don't like Reese as a psychiatrist resident because I like her better when she's in the ER, and she definitely crossed lines, but Charles was acting pretty dumb about the patient that had shot him months ago. He was willing to let a complete psychopath get away with almost murder, and he knew it. His outburst at Reese in the courtroom could easily be because of a mental illness, but he's still very dangerous. I think there needed to be some sort of compromise between mental hospital and jail. Sadly, I don't think there is a middle ground there. Also, I think that he does have a clouded judgment because of what happened, and his expert opinion would have most likely been discredited in the real world. 

Charles has literally been dumbed down last season and it's carrying over to this one. He's just as unlikable for me. Remember when he was willing to let Robin go home, even when she was acting irrationally, until he saw her apartment, and then acted all high and mighty to Connor the very next episode when Connor acted exactly how Charles did before? Sure, Connor was absolutely wrong, but, like Charles before, he didn't know how bad it was. But Charles has gotten worse since season 1 and now I can't stand him as much as I can't stand Manning.

Yeah, everyone really sucks on this show. Except for Latham. He grew into a better person, as I disliked him from his first few appearances. Oh, and Nina almost remained pretty great, besides that one off episode with her jealousy over Manning. And I still like Connor because he hasn't turned into a total douchebag yet. But that's about the extent of the list of characters I still like. I liked Choi before he got together with April. Sometimes I like Sharon. Occasionally, I like Maggie, depending on her story of the episode. I liked Will with Nina a lot. But other than that? Everyone pretty much sucks and I wish they could all go away and we could have Connor, Nina, Choi, and Latham go join Jeff Clarke in Hawaii. 

[Fireball]

I completely forgot this show was coming back on the 21st (shows how unexcited I was about season 3); I stumbled on it while channel surfing. There wasn't anything really awful about the episode, but I'm very meh about this coming season. However, the show didn't go the route I predicted. I honestly thought Dr. Charles would be killed off in the first episode. I also thought Robin would be written out in the first episode as well, so good for the show for surprising me I guess.

My thoughts on the episode:

• I still don't really understand why Connor & Robin are a couple, so it's kind of hard for me to understand why Connor is sticking with Robin though all this.  Maybe the writers will tie Connor staying with Robin to his guilt over his mothers death. Yeah I know what am I thinking. The writers have forgotten all about Connor's family drama.
• I'm confused why Robin is still acting cray cray. I thought she had a tumor... Did the Drs. mess up and remove parts of her brain? The show probably explained it but I really wasn't paying attention. 
• Dr. Charles is unlikeable. Also in real life he wouldn't be giving testimony on that guys state of mind.
• Reese is also unlikeable. I see she's still biting her boyfriends head off; however, it's Noah so I really don't care.
• Noah still comes a cross as not too bright to me. He's been dating Reese for 3+ months; you'd think he'd know talking about Daddy is a touchy issue.
• Dr. Ava is still a nasty unlikeable person. It might be realistic for Drs. to "fight" over surgeries, but it doesn't make me like her.
• Please please show don't do a Connor + Ava love/hate relationship.
• April + Choi I'm still wondering where that came from. They have no chemistry and it seems really fast for April to be dating.
• Aprils eyelashes are really really detracting! Those things are huge!
• April complaining that people will judge her for dating a superior had me rolling my eyes. You'd think she would have thought about the consequences before starting to date Choi.
• I miss Choi military girlfriend.
• Choi should dump April and just hangout with his Parrot.
• So Natalie & Will are together.... I really don't care...
• Amazingly Will & Natalie actually were semi competent Drs. I say semi because they did let the wife meet the guy that got her husbands heart. The competent thing to do would have been to let the wife say good bye to her husband before they harvested his organs.
• So Natalie had to take a 3 month break because she found out Will dumped Nina? So as soon as Will was available Natalie wasn't sure about her feelings? That was weird. At least the writers didn't drag out getting Will & Natalie together anymore. 
• I still like Latham and am glad he realized Ava was playing/manipulating him.
• Connor & Latham relationship is the only interesting relationship on the show.
• The surgical team sure do change the color of their scrubs. They've been burgundy, purple and now black. Connor looks hot in all of them. lol
• I still want a spin off in Hawaii with Jeff. The non annoying people (Connor, Nina, Choi, Latham, and Reese's Ex) can come too.

[Lady Calypso]

5 minutes ago, Fireball said:

• I'm confused why Robin is still acting cray cray. I thought she had a tumor... Did the Drs. mess up and remove parts of her brain? The show probably explained it but I really wasn't paying attention. 

Reese was explaining some of the side effects to Robin's meds to them, and that's why she was hypersexual. That, and she was afraid that Connor didn't love her anymore. But also, just more plot contrivance to most likely end their relationship. They're not very subtle in their writing.

6 minutes ago, Fireball said:

• I miss Choi military girlfriend.
• Choi should dump April and just hangout with his Parrot.

I miss Choi, his military girlfriend, and his parrot.

7 minutes ago, Fireball said:

• Connor & Latham relationship is the only interesting relationship on the show.

So true. Connor and his mentors are the one consistent thing that has worked for me.

8 minutes ago, Fireball said:

• I still want a spin off in Hawaii with Jeff. The non annoying people (Connor, Nina, Choi, Latham, and Reese's Ex) can come too.

Oh yeah, Splendorkable! That reminds me of how I LOATHED the way they broke them up off screen, and then gave Splendorkable a shitty line about him already dating again. What a way to appeal me to Reese and NO!ah. 

[Fireball]

10 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Reese was explaining some of the side effects to Robin's meds to them, and that's why she was hypersexual. That, and she was afraid that Connor didn't love her anymore. But also, just more plot contrivance to most likely end their relationship. They're not very subtle in their writing.

Oh ok she's still on meds. I really wasn't paying attention. I honestly was expecting them to breakup Connor and Robin the first episode; actually I was expecting them to break them up off screen. I guess it's nice that the writers are letting us see Connor & Robin breakup on screen, but I would have been fine with them just deciding that they weren't right for each other. I didn't need this she's cray cray...no she has a tumor...no she's cray cray story. 

[statsgirl]

33 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I miss Choi, his military girlfriend, and his parrot.

x1000.  They made Choi interesting and relateable.  Last night with the case and the stupid April drama, he was like a cardboard cut-out and so uninteresting.

Doris should have told the nursing supervisor, who is April's real boss.  And maybe the union rep if the supervisor didn't do anything.  Such a stupid plot.

3 hours ago, bounnatalie said:

 Also, not sure but it seemed unrealistic that the nurses would be cleaning things like that. Nurses are well educated and skilled, so it seemed like that wouldn't be the best use of their skills. 

They do in real life though.  Hospital are expected to be clean workplaces and often there either isn't cleaning staff or they can wait for the cleaning staff to clean things up.  They couldn't have left the boy lying in his own puss until the cleaning staff got there when they had free time. 

It sounds like Patty Murin is having a great time on Broadway and I'm glad for her but I'm going to miss Nina.  (Broadway is taking Victor Garber from Legends of Tomorrow too.  It's great for those who can go down to see the shows but not so good for us who can only see the characters on TV  Kind of like owning a masterpiece vs having it on display in a museum.)

1 hour ago, Ailianna said:

What I like to believe we didn't see in the trial but that we did hear about was that 3 (I think) other psychiatrists already testified, and Dr. Charles should not have been allowed to testify as an expert in this case, but was, so that's why someone else with a personal connection testified in rebuttal.  I think the cross of Dr. Charles (which we didn't see) should have also exposed Dr. Charles' guilt feelings, but it's a doctor show, not a lawyer show.

Having guilt feelings doesn't mean Dr. Charles was wrong in his diagnosis.  We don't know if the guy was responsible for what he was doing or not.  The show never gave us any facts about the case, it was all soap opera and superficial judgements.

The more I think about that subplot, the more I hate it. 

The defense attorney should have sliced and diced Reese on the stand:  "Tell me, Dr. Reese how long have you been a doctor?  One year?  And how long have you been a psychiatric resident?  Only a year?  Who has been supervising you?  Dr. Charles?  How many cases like the defendant's have you seen in that time?  Isn't it true that because you are a new resident you must get an attending okay for anything but the most basic treatments  And what makes you think that you with your one year experience know better than your supervisor with his 30 years? Tell me Dr. Reese, isn't it true that you want to see the defendant punished for what he did to Dr. Charles and that is why you came forward at the last minute?  Remember, you are under oath."

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I really don't like Reese as a psychiatrist resident because I like her better when she's in the ER, and she definitely crossed lines, but Charles was acting pretty dumb about the patient that had shot him months ago. He was willing to let a complete psychopath get away with almost murder, and he knew it. His outburst at Reese in the courtroom could easily be because of a mental illness, but he's still very dangerous. I think there needed to be some sort of compromise between mental hospital and jail. Sadly, I don't think there is a middle ground there. Also, I think that he does have a clouded judgment because of what happened, and his expert opinion would have most likely been discredited in the real world.

Reese is far too judgemental to be a psychiatrist at this point.  Maybe it's just her youth and she'll grow out of it but she needs to be supervised closely. Even better, put her back in the ER where she can be judgey with Manning.

Jack Kellogg wouldn't be going into the kind of mental hospital you see in your neighborhood.  He would be going to a forensic mental health facility, which is like a prison with cells and bars and all the trappings of a jail.  And you're put in there indefinitely, unlike prison time where you get a sentence and after it's served you're out.  Conditions can be so bad that often lawyers advise their clients to be tried in court rather than plead Not Criminally Responsible.

If you want to have a look at what a forensic psychiatric facility is like, John Kastner's Out of Mind, Out of Sight is a documentary about the Brockville  Mental Health Centre, a forensic psychiatric hospital for people who have committed violent crimes.  It's like one of Dante's circles of hell.

[statsgirl]

An interesting read Reese should have availed herself of:  From the New England Journal of Medicine Hard Time or Hospital Treatment? Mental Illness and the Criminal Justice System looks at the two systems.   It's also got a good comparison of two paranoid schizophrenics, one who was arrested and landed in jail, and the other who was taken to a hospital.

[spunky]

22 hours ago, statsgirl said:

As much as I loved this show in its first season it's been on a steep decline since the start of s2. I wonder if they changed showrunners.

Good thing:  Latham is back.  I really like that character and  his relationship with Rhodes.  And that's it for good things about this episode.  Okay, maybe Stroh becoming a bit more human.

I really think Charles should dump Reese as his resident.  Hard.  Natural consequences.  She crossed lines she totally should not have and she was just as emotionally involved as Charles was.  I went from liking her to hating her more than Manning, which is quite a feat.  Also, and I never thought I'd say this but STFU Sharon. You're not a psychiatrist no matter how much you think you are.

Becker is just as awful as she was in the last episode.  Why is she still around?  She's not even good in the "love to hate" kind of way.

Isn't it against the rules for the donor's family and the recipient to meet?

Because she gets stuck cleaning up the pus while Choi sends April on the nicer run of taking the samples to the lab and Other Nurse blames the unfairness on the fact that April is sleeping with Choi.  Also there is no chemistry at all between April and Choi.  It's like they were put together because the writers didn't know what else to do with them.

(trivia:  I worked on a project evaluating jobs.  Most people think that working in a garage is a dirty job because there's grease and road dirt, but being a nurse is a much dirtier job.)

The current administration hadn't eliminated the children's health insurance during more of the boy's life, it was still Obama.  Why didn't his mother have the money to take him to the doctor then?

Just because he got a gun and shot Charles doesn't mean that he wasn't suffering from either mental illness or delusions.  Look at his outburst in the court room, that's not a mentally health man.  And Reese was way wrong that he would get treatment in jail.  If mentally ill people got treatment in jail, there would be a lot fewer people in jail.

Ashley Smith had a normal childhood but at age 13 she started showing some disruptive behaviours.  When she was 14, she was put into a Youth Centre for throwing crab apples at a post and other similar behaviours.  She continued to show disruptive behaviours and in spite of being diagnosed with ADHD, learning disorder and personality disorder, she was pepper-sprayed, tasered and often put into solitary confinement which is the worst thing they could have done.  Over the next 3 years she had more than 800 incidents and 150 cases of self harm.  When she was 18 she was transferred to a women's facility.  She was still self-harming so guards were told not to intervene because it was just her trying to get attention.  At 19, having spent almost all of the past 5 years in prison from actions like throwing apples at a mailman, she tied a ligature around her neck. The guards watched her for 45 minutes before finally going in. She was dead.  It was a horribly tragic screw-up by the penal system to fail to treat her mental illness even though it had been diagnosed.

I was at a workshop on mattering a couple of weeks ago.  The psychologist told about a colleague of his who had told a patient that he didn't have time to see her that day.  She cut herself and smeared the blood around the walls of the hallway.  Then she went to him and said "Do I matter enough for you to see me now?"  He cancelled his other plans and saw her because he's a good clinician and he knew that if she was willing to do that, there was something wrong.

My mother had a saying that translates as "A man can be a shop keeper and a Christian."  Or in this case, Charles can gave his personal feelings about the man but that doesn't mean that he also wasn't right that the man wasn't responsible for his actions by reason of insanity.  Certainly Charles would know better than Reese who has all of one year of psychiatric training and has her own major issues of her father substitute almost dying or Sharon who doesn't have any psychiatric training at all and probably had never met the patient.

I agree that he is mentally ill, and needed treatment. I've worked with countless people with mental health disorders and even had a few involuntarily taken to the hospital for their own safety. From what I have witnessed when people are having delusions they have more difficulty formulating a plan. The prison system creates more mental health disorders than anything else, I definitely agree that prison was not the place for him. This man definitely had delusions of grandeur, and needed to be placed in a longterm psychiatric facility because he is clearly a danger to others. Why I said that Dr. Charles was in his feelings was because he missed the signs that this man needed treatment ASAP and assumed that he was exhibiting attention seeking behavior.

[statsgirl]

21 hours ago, spunky said:

assumed that he was exhibiting attention seeking behavior

That phrase drives me crazy.  Someone shows up in an ER with a broken leg and no one says he's exhibiting attention seeking behaviour.  But he is, he's looking for them to pay attention to him and treat what's wrong with him. That's because people can see what's wrong and have an idea how to fix it.  With mental disorders they can't see it, they don't know what it is and often don't have a good treatment so they attribute it to the annoying person who is demanding too much.

This also happens with physical illness when the doctors don't realize that it is physical or don't know how to treat it.  (I'm thinking of the 8 year old boy who kept vomiting. The doctors made him clean it up because they said he was doing it on purpose.  He died of a twisted bowel.) 

[Chas411]

Ava is the worst - I can see her and Conor hooking up a mile off. 

Conor and Robin I don't love but it's Moreso that I think Conor comes off as really patronising when around her. I feel he talks down to her and that puts her on edge. I also think they've upped the ante on her crazy to accommodate Mekia Coxs inevitable exit.

On a side note - what's Robyn's disease? I thought she got some sort of infectious disease or something that caused her meltdown last season.

Ethan and April - snore. I can't remember the last time either character did anything interesting.

Best part of the episode is always Conor and his mentor doctor who's name I can't recall. He's a fantastic character and brings out the best in Conor. 

Edited November 26, 2017 by Chas411

[bioprof]

So close to being done with this show. They took a promising premise & totally chickafied it  ( and since I am a "chick" I feel perfectly justified in saying that ) . That's what ruined Grey's Anatomy. And Will and Natalie....just can't get past the bad acting ( Natalie ) and the hair hat ( Will).

[starri]

On 11/26/2017 at 6:46 PM, Chas411 said:

On a side note - what's Robyn's disease? I thought she got some sort of infectious disease or something that caused her meltdown last season.

Ready for a mouthful?  Robyn has anti-NMDA Receptor Encephalitis.  Basically, in our bodies' infinite way of torturing ourselves, there are some extremely rare cancers that produce antibodies that cause the body to turn around and attack the brain, leading to what looks at first like schizophrenia and later dementia.  It's believed that cases of reported demonic possession (the Annalise Michel story is the most frequently cited) were actually people with this condition.

Will Graham had it on Hannibal, as well.

[RedbirdNelly]

I strongly disliked this episode and reminded me how watching ER reruns is so much better. I thought for a minute the last scene "my 3 month sabbatical? that was because of my feelings for you Will!" followed by a kiss was a dream sequence (Will's dream) for a minute. To be anything else was just silly.  I was puzzled why we jumped 3 months anyway.

I agree with others--can we get Choi's parrot back on screen?

Reese showing up in court was not realistic but kind of cracked me up.

[cathmed]

Actually, I had forgotten the show restarted!    I realized this past weekend the new season started around Thanksgiving, so I binge-watched (something I typically never do) to catch up.   What a disappointment this show has become.   Obviously, we're all brilliant in hindsight but this show is beginning/has gone off the rails.   S1, by far, was the best season--maybe because it was new and fresh with a nice set of actors that you don't see often.   I wonder just how psychotic they'll make Robyn as I do like Connor/Robyn together.   I didn't realize she was on another show (as some have mentioned) so clearly, they're writing her exit.   I don't care for the new doctor (Becker) and I stated at the end of last season when she came on board that it would be Connor's new love interest.   The plotlines and love interests have already gotten stale and some should have never materialized, e.g., Ethan/April and Halstead and Manning, imo.  The acting doesn't seem as sharp and crisp, and the storylines have gotten ridiculous.   I'll try to give it a few more episodes but I'm dangerously close to calling it quits on a once promising show.

Edited December 11, 2017 by cathmed

[cathmed]

On 11/22/2017 at 1:55 AM, weathered1 said:

I've got to echo everyone else's thoughts. This show, at least for me, has become decidedly meh. At best. While the episode wasn't bad, relatively speaking, I found myself just not caring about anything I was seeing. 

Connor has been one of my favorites since the show began, but the retread of the Robin issues, the fact that he was only allowed to be happy for approximately 2.4 seconds, and the utterly unpleasant feeling (it's actually more of a certainty) that the show will go the way of a predictable hookup (at least) with the utterly unnecessary, totally loathsome Becker, did not sit well with me.  The one and only one thing I liked about his scenes tonight: Latham. 

April and Choi. Ye gods. It's not surprising at this point that the show took what was a bad idea in the first place and made it even worse. Hiding the relationship is so boring, and frankly, it makes both of them look bad. I fully despise April now, so I couldn't muster up any sympathy when bitchy Doris was being so flagrantly awful. Choi deserves so much better than this. 

The Dr. Charles plotline was decent, and I liked that Reese took action when she felt like he was making a huge mistake, and that Sharon delivered a heaping dose of the truth to him, but something about all of it just left me cold. 

The Maggie and Stohl story? I couldn't have cared less, which also describes how I felt about all of the patients. It all just seemed so paint-by-numbers and dull to me. 

Finally, Will and Natalie. I see the show has finally decided to just shove them together, so at least the obnoxious angst (at least in that respect) of their (alleged) mutual yearning is over. Even when both of them were being competent at their jobs - for once - I . . . just didn't care. 

I've watched this show since the pilot, and I feel like it's gone downhill to an extent that I can't ignore anymore. When it's gotten to a point where I'm just not interested in the characters, it may be time for me to find something else to watch. Maybe the next episode will be better, but if not, I think I'm done with this show. 

You've succinctly stated everything I now feel about the show and characters (which I echoed briefly in my response).   I, too, have watched since the pilot and felt the show had such promise.  I don't know if they've changed writers or showrunners but I hate to see this show experience some of the character assassinations I've seen on others with tired trope and uninteresting storylines.   Let's hope they can get back on track and not derail.

[SnarkySheep]

On 11/21/2017 at 11:53 PM, spunky said:

I liked Maggie explaining to Dr. Stohl, the tale of two Chicago's. I liked that he understood and helped the young man.

IMO it wasn't that Stohl didn't understand but that he was being practical, as is his wont. It isn't the hospital's job to worry about what happens to the patient afterward; and also, if he is really in potential danger from gang members, then what different does it make that he'll stay in the hospital another day or two? It was said that some older brother or whoever would "look out for him" but what on earth could anyone really do against some vengeful guys with guns? IMO this subplot wasn't portrayed too well.

Quote

some should have never materialized, e.g., Ethan/April 

Agreed. Personally I liked April with her ex (whose name I've already forgotten, sorry) and it seemed like they broke them up simply because they didn't know what to do with them. But there was a lot going there, including potential issues with the little boy (who mysteriously disappeared after the two got together). Then, Ethan was around during all of April's issues, including the lost baby, broken engagement AND the TB. He should have started being a friend to April, not encouraging her into a rebound relationship, if anything else. IMO that's why Will and Natalie work better as a couple, because they have the background of friendship, while Ethan and April seem only about the physical.

[DNR]

I watched this show by accident tonite. Wow. I may be back next week just for the laughs. Acting is terrible , storylines are awful.  Been watching old reruns of ER of late - so well done compared to this garbage show.

[OlyBinewski]

On 11/23/2017 at 9:48 AM, thewhiteowl said:

I have not watched consistently and was not aware of the Choi\April thing but was wondering WTH because since when do doctors have to tell a nurse something needs to be cleaned up or assign a specific nurse to do it?....

35+ years of nursing and I've never heard a doctor delegate clean up work. and orders such as IV fluids are written specific to the patient, not the nurse.

I've been here since the beginning and I'm trying to hold on but they keep letting me down....